No Knesset majority for loyalty oath for Jews and non-Jews
Only 56 of 120 MKs say they support the bill requiring Jews and non-Jews alike to pledge allegiance to Israel as a Jewish and democratic state; Justice Minister: I'll quit if loyalty oath applies only to non-Jews.
By Jonathan LisJustice Minister Yaakov Neeman has reportedly said he will not remain in the cabinet if a bill requiring naturalized citizens to pledge allegiance to Israel as a Jewish and democratic state does not pass.
But a head count by Haaretz reveals that currently, there is no Knesset majority for the bill: Only 56 of the 120 MKs support it. Its passage will thus depend on Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu's ability to strong-arm MKs who currently oppose it into switching their vote.
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Justice Minister Yaakov Neeman, left, with Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu in 2009. |
| Photo by: Olivier Fitoussi |
Neeman made his reported comment at a closed meeting with Cabinet Secretary Zvi Hauser, Public Diplomacy Minister Yuli Edelstein and coalition chairman Zeev Elkin to discuss the exact wording of the bill, following Netanyahu's decision on Monday that the pledge should be required of all new citizens, Jews and non-Jews alike, as Neeman had wanted. This is a change from last week's cabinet decision that would have required the oath only of non-Jewish naturalized citizens.
Edelstein and Elkin, both immigrants from the former Soviet Union, told Neeman at the meeting that they won't support the bill in its new form, as it discriminates between Jews born in Israel and Jews who immigrate under the Law of Return. That would undermine the point of the Law of Return, which was to treat any Jew who moves here as the equal of someone born here, they argued.
Neeman spent most of Tuesday in feverish negotiations to find a wording that would enjoy the broadest possible support in the cabinet. In particular, he wants to find wording that Michael Eitan, Benny Begin and Dan Meridor - the three Likud party ministers who voted against the bill last week - can support.
But the Labor Party has already announced that it will oppose the revised bill, as has United Torah Judaism and the entire opposition, including the right-wing National Union. That leaves the coalition without enough votes to pass it.
Moreover, it is not yet clear that even Shas and Yisrael Beiteinu will support the revised version. Neither party has yet enunciated its position, but both parties' leaders - Interior Minister Eli Yishai and Foreign Minister Avigdor Lieberman, respectively - voted against Neeman's proposal to require the oath of Jews and non-Jews alike when he first raised it at last week's cabinet meeting.
The revised version is likely to be particularly problematic for Shas, which, like UTJ, is an ultra-Orthodox party. UTJ MK Moshe Gafni told Haaretz on Monday that he opposes the bill, in part because of the religious objection to Jews swearing any kind of oath. That reason would presumably apply to Shas as well.
As for Yisrael Beiteinu, it is the party that initially proposed and pushed the bill. But a sizable proportion of its voters are immigrants from the former Soviet Union, and it may therefore be sensitive to the claim made by Edelstein and Elkin that the new version discriminates against immigrants.
Meanwhile, in response to the loyalty oath and other bills sponsored by Yisrael Beiteinu that allegedly discriminate against Israeli Arabs, a conference against "racist legislative initiatives" was held at the Knesset yesterday, with dozens of academics, social activists and MKs in attendance. The conference was organized by MKs Shlomo Molla (Kadima ) and Dov Khenin (Hadash ), among others.
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but regarding neeman's threatening to resign, does anyone really give a hoot???
'Nuff sed?
American politicians have been required to tale a loyalty oath to Israel for years:(
Jews cant make a RELIGIOUS vow - cant invoke Ha'Shem - but they sure can sign legal contracts! Pledge of allegiance is no problem for Jews. Carry on with the 'promise' of loyalty to the Jewish and democratic State of Israel.
This would have been a complete disaster for Israel had the so-called "Loyalty Oath" been made into law. If Labor doesn't rid the country of this diabolical government soon it will lose all support including the American Jewish community which is already dumbfounded by the blatent fascisim taking root in Israel today. As someone who has spent an entire career supporting Israel I find myself unable to continue to do so under the current policies.
If you wan´t to live in Israel take the oath!
No peace as long as "Lebanon" is a vassal state of Iran
I still don't understand one thing: Only Jews can become Israelis - by the law of Return - therefore, non Jews who want to settle in Israel are temporary or permanant residents and will never be able to access Israeli citizenship unless they convert to Judaism. So why should they bother to swear on an oath since they can't become Israeli? Is there another immigration law that I don't know about? And Jews who don't want to swear this oath? Are they gonna be refused citizenship? This law is doomed...
Non-Jews can become naturalized Israeli citizens (and must undergo a naturalization process). Jews automatically gain citizenship.
Also, Nonjews can gain auto-citizenship via the Law of Return if one of their parents is Jewish - not so uncommon is anti-religious Soviet Russia
You are wrong. Non-Jews can become citizens of Israel in a number of ways, just not under the Law of Return which only applies to Jews. As in other countries, foreigners can become citizens through naturalization or through marriage to a citizen. These are the people who will be required to sign the pledge of allegiance.
While Israel is negotiating peace with the Palestinians and as if there are not enough problems to make the negotiations fail; then Israel comes up with this. You (Israel) guys really do not want peace; so why lie. Just admit it and quit your hypocrisy.
My brother, I can understand your point of view but like many Israeli Jews, you are not looking at the situation through the eyes of the other side. Our Arab and Moslem brothers must try to grasp that the Jewish people are still new to statehood and have not yet fully completed the project of establishing their political and social identity. Whether you believe it or not, there is also much fear and insecurity amongst Israelis. We all need to work together to solve the issues dividing us, and the most important tool to that end is for each group to acknowledge the feelings and thoughts of the other.
Very disappointing.The law applies to all or to none.
Frankly, if Israel feels the need to do this, then the US should require all American Jews, who are entitled to or hold Israeli citizenship, to do the same. And the first time one of them acts in Israel's interest over that of the US, put them up on treason charges.
Does that mean that I won't be able to distinguish between the israeli population anymore to show that The jew is a racist organism?
Even In Torah It is stated one must do what one sees fit in one's own eyes, not what the other person dictates. Lieberman should have left such policies behind In the soviet union. Perhaps he thought it was for those Russians married to Jews who could not convert properly and therefore needed to at least pay obeisance to the State. But actually it is a disservice to the state and a disgrace for its founders. What's wrong w/the declaration of independence? One has a duty to one's conscience, that's all, in a free country. To examine one's conscience: lehitpalel: to pray.
Even In Torah It is stated one must do what one sees fit in one's own eyes, not what the other person dictates. Lieberman should have left such policies behind In the soviet union. Perhaps he thought it was for those Russians married to Jews who could not convert properly and therefore needed to at least pay obeisance to the State. But actually it is a disservice to the state and a disgrace for its founders. What's wrong w/the declaration of independence? One has a duty to one's conscience, that's all, in a free country. To examine one's conscience: lehitpalel: to pray.
This is a trend. In Montreal, we have been picked at by the french for so long too. Just like in Israel, the french used to throw bombs at us (in the 1970s). And just like Arabs now, their nationalistic racism grows so deep as to a point where my language is no longer an official language in the province I live in. Don't let Israel fall under the thump of its racist Arab minority like we did in Montreal.
I remember that time I was in Montreal actually. I remember asking a friend where to find a restaurant. Of course, I asked the question in English and that alone was enough to get screamed at all sorts of names and abuses. And did you know who were the most pro-french nationalists among those haters? French Arabs from North Africa.
They control their own immigration from within Canada. Guess what? They practically only accept people from French speaking countries to make sure their nationalist aims are protected. They know English-speaking people won't accept their separatist views. As a consequence, they only let French Arabs and French Africans in.
And yet, you oppose the right of return of the Arabs. Why? Because they are not Jewish. While you tag French-Canadian racists because they accept immigration that is not white-catholic but French speaking, you won't even let the ones who were expelled come back. Brilliant...
Quebec will take anyone who will agree to leave here( not a lot of volounteers). All immigrants that will be declined immigration to other provinces based on point system, family relations are gladly accepted in to quebec.Just swear allegeance to party quebecua, and learn french not english ,and you welcome in this dump with open armes.
The separatists are losing ground ever since because the citizens of the province are fed up about the debate. Yet, Kufad, I suggest you take a trip to Montreal. You will see 2 ENGLISH UNIVERSITIES, 2 FRENCH UNIVERSITIES. Go west of St-Laurent street, you will see English-speaking Canadians, Jamaicans, Chinese people who predominantly use English as a language. Does anybody in Quebec really mind? And... if you think this is a dump of North America, I suggest you take a trip to New Foundland, and perhaps a few US States...
Asking emigrant jews (along with everybody else) to take the oath is considered discrimination But Asking only arabs to take it is fine!!!! lol, viva the only democracy in the middle east :-)
Amazing.
I think you should follow your own "advice". Your post is utterly meaningless!
Asking emigrant jews (along with everybody else) to take the oath is considered discrimination But Asking only arabs to take it is fine!!!! lol, viva the only democracy in the middle east :-)
Dividing, inventing excuses as to why, suddenly, Jews are no longer welcome in Israel. If Jews have to take the oath, how is the State Jewish? It seems there are more self-hating Jews in Israel then expected.
Once, we thought Arabs would want to drive us to the sea. Now, Jews want to do that!
Once, we thought Arabs would want to drive us to the sea. Now, Jews want to do that!
Once, we thought Arabs would want to drive us to the sea. Now, Jews want to do that!
Once, we thought Arabs would want to drive us to the sea. Now, Jews want to do that!
To many Jews who believe Jews don't have the right to live in Israel.
To many Jews who believe Jews don't have the right to live in Israel.
judah ben hur, zionist forever and cipora kohn...the cuckoo's nest having a little pity party
I'm a Jew, I'm Israeli through the Law of Return and I'd be delighted to take the oath! Why on earth would I object?? Why would ANY Jew object?
to accept the"Jewishness" of Israel...How ironic when the majority of the Knesset members appear to be against the oath....These members have more sense than Bibi and his Gang of 7
Lieberman's initiative about border corrections letting Palestinians live in Palestine was good, but this oath promotion is a bad idea.
Some Jews believe that their religion prevents them from making an oath, but they can force others to do it. The hypocrisy is mind-boggling.
so 1+1=2 or 1+1=1...some say it's 1...all depends how you look at it!!!!! as for the oath by Jewish law it is forbidden by other law a must.....one is not saying we are better or worse...but still depends how you look at it!!!!
without such a loyalty oath, suddenly Neeman discovers this resigning issue. The president, prime minister, chief of staff, judges do not swear such an oath. Neeman should must definitely resign, and the sooner the better.
Doesn't that mean that they only need 5 more votes for a majority?
I have no objection to the idea of an oath of loyalty to a jewish and democratic state but jews should be required to make this oath as well. Although theoretically jews don't need to swear any oaths because they are jewish and that gives them an automatic right to become Israeli citizens whilst non jews must apply and can be refused. Jews though should swear this oath of loyalty even if its just to remind these jews but whilst they have a right to be here Israel is their new home now and they should swear an oath of loyalty to it. I cannot see any just reason why jews should not be forced to swear this loyalty oath and it was a mistake to make this bill apply to non jews only from the start. Thats one of the things that made it so contrversial.
I have no objection to the idea of an oath of loyalty to a jewish and democratic state but jews should be required to make this oath as well. Although theoretically jews don't need to swear any oaths because they are jewish and that gives them an automatic right to become Israeli citizens whilst non jews must apply and can be refused. Jews though should swear this oath of loyalty even if its just to remind these jews but whilst they have a right to be here Israel is their new home now and they should swear an oath of loyalty to it. I cannot see any just reason why jews should not be forced to swear this loyalty oath and it was a mistake to make this bill apply to non jews only from the start. Thats one of the things that made it so contrversial.
just more red tape, form-filling, energy-consuming BS
I doubt that anyone, including the drafters of the legislation, could explain what they mean by "a Jewish state". However pledging allegiance to Israel as the national homeland of the Jewish people has some substantive meaning--that the purpose of Israel is always to be the place where any Jew who chooses can come home to. It would take a perverted mind to invent that this means that non-Jewish citizens of Israel have less rights than Jewish citizens. All of this would be so more easily defined if Israel would adopt a written constitution.
If you say that "Israel is the national homeland of the Jewish people" this indicates that Israel is the national homeland solely for Jews. That Israel is not the national homeland for the 20 % of Israel's population that is not Jewish. Thus it is very easy to reach the conclusion that your wording also means that non-Jewish citizens have less rights. Here's a suggestion "In the spirit of the declaration of independence I pledge allegience to the democratic state of Israel and swear to abide by its laws. In light of the special connection that former residents have to the land of Israel I recognize the right of all former residents or their descendants to return as citizens of Israel."
there will never be any "right of return" for you.
Israel is not the national homeland for the Chinese people, nor the Indian people, etc. But that doesn't mean that Chinese or Indian peoples can't emigrate to Israel, nor that Israelis of Chinese or Indian ancestry have any less rights. I think you do not understand the concept of "national homeland" and so you attach an illogical extension to my words, one that is not in any way implied by my wording. BTW, all of this would be unnecessary if the half the world that has shown virtually uninterrupted hatred to Jews for over 1000 years would take tangible steps to demonstrate the conclusive end to that hatred. But they will not, ostensibly because the pleasure they derive from their hatred of Jews is simply too tempting to resist.
I feel that it might be you who have trouble understanding basic logic, but by all means feel free to tell me how my statement is illogical (just saying that it is doesn't make it so). Here's my reasoning: 1) There are Jewish and non-Jewish Israelis. 2) saying that Israel is the national homeland of the Jews and not the others gives the Israeli Jews a right that the others do not have 3) Thus non-Jews have less rights. Simple, yes?
I feel that it might be you who have trouble understanding basic logic, but by all means feel free to tell me how my statement is illogical (just saying that it is doesn't make it so). Here's my reasoning: 1) There are Jewish and non-Jewish Israelis. 2) saying that Israel is the national homeland of the Jews and not the others gives the Israeli Jews a right that the others do not have 3) Thus non-Jews have less rights. Simple, yes?
The oath is a bad idea. But reading comments such as O's might push people to support it. O, you do not seem to understand that Israel is to Jews what a future Palestine will be to Palestinians. Their homeland. The land that they will return to. Is this too difficult a concept for you? No hope with people like you around.
The oath is a bad idea. But reading comments such as O's might push people to support it. O, you do not seem to understand that Israel is to Jews what a future Palestine will be to Palestinians. Their homeland. The land that they will return to. Is this too difficult a concept for you? No hope with people like you around.
I do not question that Israel is the Jews' homeland, I am pointing out that it is also the homeland of a bunch of people who are not Jewish. Is that too difficult a concept for you?
Steve said, "If it is Israel, then it is the national homeland of the Jewish people". All you can infer from that is "If it is not the national homeland of the Jewish people, then it is not Israel". The property of being a "national homeland" has not been defined anywhere as being exclusive, so it could also be, for instance, the national homeland of the Palestinian people without contradiction. Politics aside, Steve's right about the logic bit.
The oath for everyone is not better than the oath for non jews. It should be no oath for everybody.
Ah, thank you ambassador Oren. However, grey the day here, whenever I read your quote it brings a smile to my face and a laugh to my lips. Did you ever think of doing stand-up? Or maybe that speech the other day was really your comedy debut? If so, keep up the good work! Outstanding!
post #4 was not mine. it is outrageous that you deny me the right to say so--3 times
one submits a deeply thought out pearl-of-wisdom to Ha-aretz, but even 20 clicks on "send" can't get it past their laconic censor/sensor...
savor it
savor it
what i minded was the identity theft. unlike others, i do not use multiple aliases or names. i have only one, just as we have only one jewish state. we do not always agree, but i appreciate the support. shalom v'kol tov, cipora
It's because they have to read through hundreds of posts so there's a technical aspect to why some posts dont show up. This happens to both pro-Israelis and critics of Israel. You're always such a drama queen Cipora. You should go out more often :)
the law must apply to all or none
the law must apply to all or none
This is an important debate about questions ALL Israelis obviously need to answer and not be afraid to confront. God bless democracy.
Stupid idea to begin with. How about just forgetting the whole thing? Israel has done just fine for all these years without it.
Lieberman has, in his self-defeating way, raised the one issue that could destroy Zionism from within - conflicts over who's a Jew and what kind of Jew are they?
There is still hope for Israel.
I thought JEWS were supposed to be smart? People will swear to kill their mother if you make them. Human have no loyalty to anything but their selfish souls. do not destroy your country with your own hands/ your smarter than this. tell netanyahu I expect him to do the right thing and apologise. you will lose face but the turks lost lives.
this is not democracy,is chaos. politicions are creating more and more divisions,born Israeli or born Hutz Laharetz,Israelis or Jews,Moroccans or vus vus,black or white,secular or religious,poor and rich,etc etc diversity is OK,but fomenting differences leads to chaos
as it slowly comes to its senses, after Lieberman rode-rough-shod over all Israel's sensibilities...
as it slowly comes to its senses, after Lieberman rode-rough-shod over all Israel's sensibilities...
The very first decent thing to be done from someone from the abhorrent administration
coming to their senses...
i doubt very much this is our own curmudgeonly absolute sweden. the sentiments and writing style are not his
He failed to bring Britain into the argument and of course Her colonisation of the Falkland Islands.
Whatever. If Jews will not be a majority in Israel no oath will help. Its just a little trick aimed at trying to prevent Palestinians to become Israelis, and it won't even work. Right-wing and left-wing jump on this non-issue to bolster extremist rhetoric.
And he is finding opposition from a bunch of stupid racists such as Edelstein and Elkin. All persons regardless of origing should pledge loyalty to to jewish democratic state. Haredi jews should swallow the democratic face of the law that includes arabs, and non jewish will have to swallow the fact that the state is defined as a the self determination place of tghe jewish people. Presented in that perspective the law should be universal, that means non racist.
It's pretty easy to spot i.e. while Israeli law DESCRIBES Israel as a "Jewish state" nowhere does Israeli law DEFINE what that phrase means. So why not start there, guys, before you start insisting that goys swear loyalty to, you know, a "vibe"....
Assuming we plead for this what are we swearing loyalty to? The Government in Israel is democratic , which means that the policy on state matters changes according to the Government and the Kneset , so how do you determine explicitly what is treason and what is loyalty? Some views oppose one another, its idiotic to say that someone who disagrees with you is automatically a traitor and i'm not talking about Arab kneset members who call to the destruction of Israel, I'm talking about opposing views amongst Israelis who want to live in a jewish state.. If one can simply point an accusing finger at another and say "Traitor" simply because they reject the current government policy it would be a blow to Israeli democracy. Avigdor Liberman may act all innocent in wanting this but I don't trust the guy, sure we need to get rid of Arab Kneset members who call for the destruction of Israel but I think he has some kind of alterior motive here.I'm against the settlements and any stupid soldier-sacraficing crusade under the pretense of zionism and I suspect thats exactly what Liberman has in mind.
I thought when I made aliyah I put the fools of my village to Chelm in the past but now see their children and grandchildren run the Knesset.
That was your mistake, Rabbi. You should have made the 4:15 to LaGuardia . We still have room if you change your mind. We have other fools running the Congress, so that might make a nice change of pace.
So do not force them to do what they do not want to do. If they want to chant to the crocodile god, let them.
This is a bill that even before the vote has created a lot of anger and racist comments . I fail to see why it is needed . It smells of a reacist content and will cause great problems if large numbers of the population refuse to sign . What will be the punishment ? Why stir up more trouble with a bill that is unecessary
MK who are not supporting those stupid bills should resign .and let this GOV collaps .we can not run a country under siege by the religious.or this coalition ,what a shame we are becoming a racist country why? evry day a new bomb shill on us with this GOV .and for the settlers no more subsides (CHEAP) housing .
This just keeps getting better and better. Maybe its time for a faction to propose that all Jews born in Israel also swear the loyalty oath except those who can't for religious reasons. And Jews taking advantage of the ROR can swear the loyalty oath but then are they really observant Jews if they do? Non-Jews, unless their religion prevents them from swearing (if this reason for not swearing is not accepted then Israel discriminates on religious grounds) may swear but presumably if they do so, it will be with fingers crossed. So, Israel will end up with a loyalty oath to a Jewish state that Jews can't possibley swear to and non-Jews do so only under duress, that is if the legislation gets passed in some form or other in the first place. Thank you, thank you Israel.
Remember - 2 Jews 3 opinions?
Keep up the good work Bibi!
Leftist Gildon Levy was so right!
Lieberman wanted to stick it to the Arabs, or Goys in general. So he comes up with a brilliant idea to drive a wedge into the heart of Israeli society. Then it turns out the wedge is better than he intended. An issue created only to offend has now become much more than it was intended to be.
This is a reflection that Israel will tear itself apart if there is ever a peace agreement.
,aybe then
All other countries already require this.
That's an outright lie. There are some countries that have loyalty oaths. These loyalty oaths are to the country (Israel) not to a religion or ethnicity.
levi and his likeminded comrades aren't lying. in their befuddled minds, they are incapable of grasping the distinction between israel's proposed oath and,say, the secular one of the USA
Haaretz staff, The headline "Justice Minister: I'll quit if loyalty oath applies only to non-Jews" directly contradicts the opening line of the article: "ustice Minister Yaakov Neeman has reportedly said he will not remain in the cabinet if a bill requiring naturalized citizens to pledge allegiance to Israel as a Jewish and democratic state does not pass." Please clarify.
the proposed law requiring ALL naturalizing citizens to take the oath fails. the version he objects to is one in which only non-jews will be required to take the loyalty oath.
the proposed law requiring ALL naturalizing citizens to take the oath fails. the version he objects to is one in which only non-jews will be required to take the loyalty oath.
From the article: "UTJ MK Moshe Gafni told Haaretz on Monday that he opposes the bill, in part because of the religious objection to Jews swearing any kind of oath." Therefore Israeli Jews cannot be duly sworn to tell the truth? Wow. -That might explain why Israel can't honor it's Road Map obligation to freeze settlement construction.
Why all the fuss? If you aren't against the jewish state of Israel, and you choose to live there, then there is NO reason not to sign or say the oath. In truth, all people should have to swear this allegiance. If you CHOOSE to live there, you MUST respect the laws of the state, Period. Its the same deal in the US.
In the US you do not have to submit to a fealty oath towards the majority, which in this case in the case of the US is Christians of European descent, in order to live in the country.
Misinformation on your part.
He isn't denying the existence of an oath for US citizenship, he's saying the oath doesn't include pledged loyalty to the Anglo-European Protestant United States.
Nothing in the US Naturalization Oath says anything about religion or WASPS or even Christianity. It talks about upholding the Constitution and rejecting foreign potentates, princes and loyalty to other countries. Nobody swears to be a good loyal white Baptist. Even Arab Jews can become US citizens without becoming white Baptists. Even Mexican Catholics and Jordanian Muslims can become US citizens without an oath to become good white Baptists or Presbyterians or even, Methodists. I once sponsored a Catholic of Italian descent from Toronto. She didn't have to swear to be loyal to any religion or dye her skin either.
by now everyone posting here should know that the oath for naturalizing US citizens is completely secular. No fealty to a religion or ethnicity is required. The "so help me God," clause at the end is optional, to accommodate those who don't believe in a deity. The Pledge of Allegiance recited by schoolchildren is likewise optional. "If you CHOOSE to live [in Israel], you MUST respect the laws of the state, period." Quite right. Let the oath be to uphold the laws of the State of Israel. Period.
the proposed oath does not require conversion or allegience to judaism. it requires a loyalty pledge to a jewish and democratic state. it is no different than the pledge under one nation under one god. of course, you hate israel, so you find a way to mock and object. i would expect nothing less from you. by the way, israel is as democratic as the us.
"one nation under one god"? what are you talking about? that language is in the US Pledge of Allegiance which is entirely optional. You could happily pass all your days in the USA without ever once reciting it. twist and squirm as you might, there's no hiding the fact that the proposed oath is unlike that of any other modern democracy. FAIL
Why all the fuss? If you aren't against the jewish state of Israel, and you choose to live there, then there is NO reason not to sign or say the oath. In truth, all people should have to swear this allegiance. If you CHOOSE to live there, you MUST respect the laws of the state, Period. Its the same deal in the US.
is so simple it is in front of you. If you as a jew are a citizen of a state you would not like to swear loyalty to the "christian" state but to the secular state of i.e the US, France etc. I do not think people have an issue with the state of Israel but judaism if they are of another faith or even secular....
is so simple it is in front of you. If you as a jew are a citizen of a state you would not like to swear loyalty to the "christian" state but to the secular state of i.e the US, France etc. I do not think people have an issue with the state of Israel but judaism if they are of another faith or even secular....
is so simple it is in front of you. If you as a jew are a citizen of a state you would not like to swear loyalty to the "christian" state but to the secular state of i.e the US, France etc. I do not think people have an issue with the state of Israel but judaism if they are of another faith or even secular....
It seems it is the only way to move our democracy forward.
Democracy IMPLIES the presence of opposition Cipora. Could it be that you suddenly sympathize with the type of regime Bashar has?
I mean, you can't possibly be serious that the racist, quasi-fascist Lieberman and his party will move Israeli "democracy forward". However, if by "forward", you mean flushing it down the toilet, then by all means, you're correct.
Now there is a truly scary thought!
Are you being serious or sarcastic? The only way for the democracy to work is to have a one party state?
So you've become a product of your oppressor?!
shame on you.
i hate any totalitarian system. one party system is a totalitarian system, be it left or right. people who steal another's identity and who engage in censorship are more likely to hope for their own one party system.
But you should be proud that so many were flabbergasted...They actually praise you, otherwise they wouldn't have....me too. Best, S
But you should be proud that so many were flabbergasted...They actually praise you, otherwise they wouldn't have....me too. Best, S
But you should be proud that so many were flabbergasted...They actually praise you, otherwise they wouldn't have....me too. Best, S
... forgive the mixed metaphore... but maybe we all have an Achilles heel sometimes...
...since you wrote to me, I take it is friendship...And you know...friendship between people sharing the same ideas is not such a big deal compared with when their ideas conflict.
I can only guess you have just as much trouble reading everything else...
Jews cannot betray Israel. This is why we don't need an oath for Jews. As for Arabs and Christians, history proved how they can treat Jews. It is not for nothing we demand this recognition from them.
This display of petty tribalism is what is keeping Israel in the same bin of history as Saudi Arabia.
Its not a matter of betraying or not. It's secular state versus theocraty. Most of the jews are reluctant to live under Thora's umbrella
Misinformation on your part.
remember Yigal Amir?
Israel, it seems, does not have enough problems with Hamas and the terrorist PA. Now we have defeatists in our brilliant democracy.
Is a man standing up for the true egalitarian traditions of our people. Hashem will bless him.