Netanyahu mulls Palestinian state with temporary borders as part of interim peace deal
Apparent move is a step back from the Prime Minister's previous statement, according to which Netanyahu wants to attempt to reach a final-status agreement within a year.
By Barak RavidPrime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu is considering a plan to cooperate with the Palestinians on the establishment of a Palestinian state with temporary borders, as part of an interim peace agreement with the Palestinian Authority that would be implemented immediately, sources in the Prime Minister's Office said on Tuesday.
Netanyahu's decision to consider changing his strategy, which he said in recent consultations with advisers was spurred by the recent anti-government protests in the Arab world, is a step back from his previous statement that he wants to attempt to reach a final-status agreement within a year.
 |
Meeting of ministers |
| Photo by: Emil Salman |
"The Palestinians aren't ready to reach a final-status agreement to end the conflict, in light of the instability in the region," Netanyahu reportedly said.
The PMO sources said that at the same time that Netanyahu would be pursuing an interim peace deal, Israel and the PA would negotiate the principles of a future final-status agreement and the Palestinians would receive guarantees regarding the permanent borders of a Palestinian state.
"We don't want to evade a final-status agreement, but an interim agreement is the way to get there," a PMO official said.
The details of the plan Netanyahu is considering are not yet clear. It remains to be seen whether Netanyahu is genuinely interested in moving forward with the peace process or is floating a trial balloon with the expectation that the Palestinians will reject the proposal, bolstering the "no partner" claim.
The PMO proposal appears to be based on plans by the head of the Knesset Foreign Affairs and Defense Committee, former Defense Minister Shaul Mofaz, and Foreign Minister Avigdor Lieberman, who has proposed a long-term interim arrangement under which a Palestinian state would be established with temporary borders on 45 percent to 50 percent of the West Bank.
Mofaz has recommended the establishment of a Palestinian state with temporary borders on 60 percent of the West Bank, along with an Israeli commitment that the borders would eventually be aligned with those that preceded the 1967 Six-Day War.
Representatives of the Quartet for Mideast peace - the European Union, Russia, United Nations and United States - will meet today in Brussels to discuss possible methods of renewing Israeli-Palestinian peace talks.
Israeli and Palestinian officials were invited to the meeting, but Netanyahu has decided not to send any Israeli representatives, reportedly because he views it as an attempt to forcibly impose an international initiative on him.
Saeb Erekat, who recently quit as head of the Palestinian negotiating team, will be representing the Palestinians.
Netanyahu told the Quartet that he would send his envoy for the peace process, Isaac Molho, only if there would be direct talks between Molho and Erekat, but the Palestinians would only agree to indirect talks.
Netanyahu tried to receive guarantees from the Obama administration about the meeting's objectives and the statement that would be released afterward, but didn't get anywhere. He was about to announce that he was boycotting the summit altogether, but Quartet representatives said in a last-minute compromise that they would come to Jerusalem next week and meet with Molho there.
"The moment there were no direct talks, there was no reason to fly out there," said a source in the PMO.
Diplomat retires in protest
Longtime diplomat Ilan Baruch, who recently served as Israel's ambassador to South Africa, has taken early retirement to protest the government's policies, specifically those of Lieberman.
"In the last two years, diplomatic and political messages have been made clearer to the leaders of the country, messages that outrage me and don't give me rest," Baruch wrote in his resignation letter. "I find it difficult to represent and explain them with integrity."
Why Facebook Connect?
Comment on Haaretz.com articles with your Facebook login, and share your thoughts on your own wall.
- Latest
- Most Viewed
- Most Rated
- Open all
OMG, the instability in the region. Isn't that nice of the region that it delivered another excuse which Netanyahu did not have 6 weeks ago?
because Israel is too weak. So I give him arms, and he says he doesn’t need to make concessions because Israel is strong” (Kissinger). There will always be an excuse not to make peace, until Israel produces another leader who made the breakthrough Rabin did.
The Zionist fanatics will never agree that the Arabs can have 50%. If this were a TV comedy, the Palestinians would agree, and then watch Netanyahu's coalition explode ...
Because of these two buffoons, the jews and arabs living between the river and the sea continue to suffer with no peace or prosperity.
temporary borders are only an interim step to the beginning of the islamic goal of the total elimination of the Israeli state and the jewish people. the whole palestinian peace push is only a interim step to that ultimate goal. the question before the Israeli people is who do they fear the islamic people who threaten and surround them or will they return to trusting in the G-D who gave them the land as an inheritance? they must remember that all they promises and guarantees of the arabs and muslims have been proved lies but not one of the promises of G-D has failed! so the question is does Israel trust in lies or will they return to the G-D of thruth who has never lied to them?
In Oslo, Paris, Madrid, Camp David, Sharm el Sheik.... bla bla bla bla. The US should slash the face of their Spoiled Child and impose a peace deal to both sides with the support of the EU, Russia, Arab League and the UN. The result: everybody happy except the settlers, Lieberman, Iran and the Islamists. But who cares?
If Netanyahu believes that the West bank is immune to the type of upheaval that is engulfing the Middle East he needs to think again or get his head out of the sand. Abbas regime is as autocratic as any other in the Middle East, and the population is as dissatisfied with his regime as any other, if you add their anger against the Israeli occupation, the closures, the settlements and their economic misery, you will have a powder keg that is ready to explode at any moment, all is needed is one small spark for the gates of hell open wide.
And while we're at it, I think the world should make it clear that recognition of Israel of only provisional and temporary
West-bank as a state would not give safe-borders. This will never give peace. Arabs must understand that safe borders is a must. West-bank has to be part of Israel. Jordan is Palestian.
"West-bank has to be part of Israel." -- Then Westbank population must have full israeli civil rights. You can't have the cake and eat it, as the saying goes ...
Palestinians have the same right to have their own State too.
netanyahu has no credibiltiy. He is not trusted. He is not believed. His ministers are all personae non grata around the world except Micronesia. That is a given, so whatever deceptions and posturing come from the mouth of this man can be nothing but meaningless. Israel is not interested in peace and certainly not in returning land. What is deep in the bone in Israeli psychology is that you cannot trust your neighbours and must always live in a state of suspicion and mistrust. Zionism has two goals and two goals only and those are that the maximum amount of territory in "Judea and Samaria" must be secured by whatever means. They are doing this. The second is, demographic superiority over the Arabs at all cost. Judaise the entire land and make it impossible for palestinians to expand beyond designated ghettoes where they will have minimal autonomy in a sea of Jews. Seperate sytems of law will apply to both communities. Understand that as Israel ironclad imperatives and you understand why the two state solution is a myth. They will never commit to it. We know this by observing what they have done on the ground over the past 30 yrs.
This is the only way to put a stop to serial procrastination that will see the whole of the West Bank annexed to Jerusalem if allowed to continue to its logical conclusion. Bibi doesn't take decisions, he mulls while the Libi wrecking-ball smashes up what little support we still had in the world. That's why Gil'ad Shalit is still where he is, that's why Gaza is still blockaded, that's why building goes on in the West Bank and East Jerusalem during negotiations and is deludedly expected to be seen as normal.
israel=biggest threat to world peace
which the Palestinians have already rejected in the past. This is just to confuse the quartet and try shift focus, non starter.
The state of Palestine already has "temporary borders" called the Green Line. Bibi is trying to spin the yarn that (for some reason yet unexplained) Israel and Palestine can't sign a peace agreement until/unless the IDF withdraws from the 60% of the West Bank that is under the nominal authority of the PA. That idea is nonsense i.e. a state can sign a treaty even when it is under an belligerent occupation: Germany and Japan did exactly that after WW2, and Iraq pulled off that trick when it signed the 2008 SOFA with the Americans. This "initiative" is completely unnecessary, and as far as I can see it's only "advantage" is that it allows Bibi to shaft the Pals when they come asking for the other 40%.
The out right cheek of it all aghasts me! Palestinians should not agree to temporary borders The Occupation is illegal. Palestinians should not move on this point negotiating borders with Israel and it's about time the worlds nations stood up to US and demand the withdrawal of all of West Bank and as for settlers! Israel did'nt mind displacing thousand of Palestinians.
Examine the "offer": the Palestinians have to accept - right now - a "Palestinian state" on 60% of the West Bank, and in return they get... a promise (Bibi: Not just a promise, A Pinkie Promise!) from Israel that when the time comes he will do the right thing by the Pals. Exactly *when* that time will come is not specified, and exaclty *what* Israel will do is, well, let's be honest, it'll be Open To Negotiation. So in effect the Pals have to give up something *now* in order that they can be shafted *later*. And, honestly, is there anyone who doubts that when the time comes Bibi will shaft them? Of course he will, because that's what he has always done.
If the Pals want to avoid getting the shaft they should consider sitting down and going to a final status deal. Oh wait, the Pals are divided and can't make a counteroffer that would end the conflict!
'nuff said
Calling all Israelis and Palestinians--- show them who is boss today....Dutch
no one trusts him
give it a rest guys
and deflect the increasng levels of criticism both at home and importantly abroad that Isael is not a partner to peace. When the Chancellor of Germany feels free to rebuff the Prime Minister of Israel, even Netanyahu must realise how deep in the shit he is.
THE ONLY DE JURE BORDERS ARE THOSE OF THE 1922 MANDATE FOR WHICH BIBI IS SUGGESTING A CONCESSIONAL BORDER AS WAS PROPOSED AT OSLO IN 1995 !! THERE IS NOTHING NEW !
The Israelis still must let the Palestinians know what a final status state would be, if that is acceptable, why not start with 60 %. It would at least strengthen hope in peace....even if extremists on both sides on both sides will do everything in their power to torpedo these efforts, but still give peace a chance !
This confirms what everyone already knows the world over: the Palestinians no longer have a partner for peace. The Israeli governement has chosen the foolishness of occupation and illegal settlements instead of peace.
Short of painting it across his forehead, how do we get it into Bibi's skull that the world wants the occupation to end. All of it. Now. What it does not want is yet another trickster attempt by an Israeli government to worm its way out of a fair peace.
Bibi is exactly where he should be. He faces an opponent who didn't wake up for the first nine months of his Settlement Freeze. In hindsight, Bibi sees that he made a foolish gesture, as all his gestures to this group are meaningless. In their little game, they simply don't want peace, unless Israel is bought to its knees. Bibi will simply not slit his throat for an empty "Peace Process". Egyptian land for peace was an outdated abberation, never to be repeated again. We can see the folly of peace disappearing merely by a change in regimes. Agreements mean nothing to Arabs, as long as they got their land back. Bibi is exactly where he should be. As for "fair peace", who are you to determine what that defines? Israel, and only Israel, will decide. Not some guy in his basement, somewhere in the UK.
what they tell their people.
Israel never stopped expanding in Jerusalem....there was never a freeze, bonehead.
Why did they go to war in '67 AND LOSE THEIR LAND???
You forget that a palestinian state at the west -bank is not a solution that leads to lasting peace. Bad-UN solution-plan, no safe borders, no Peace.
you know the same community that created ISrael and you live in, said so that it is illegal...isreael is not located in some fantasy land and everyone has to be obey to intl laws
that's what the whole world besides Israel will be thinking about another attempt to proceed business as usual ... I think Merkel showed the new strategy towards the Israeli way of advancing peace ... Sad that the Israeli's are porving time after time that they think they can take the whole world for fools ... don't come whining after ... Obama can veto ... but he can not dictate the rest of the world ... wait and see there is only one solution to this ... the solution Israel should have prevented but didn't ... 1967 borders including Jerusalem ... if y'all like it or not
Then Israels borders are also temporary?
Israel has never declared her permanent borders.
With Borders set, settlements, refurgees, J'lem would be already settled. Which the Likkkud doesn't want to happen....
Palestinians should refuse the deal and insist on a final status agreement. Netanyahu trying to appease world opinion, which saw Merkel tell him to piss off in a recent telephone call. Things are getting a little hot when Israeli Jews have to use false names to travel the world, and as I said many times, until ordinary decent Israelis are directly affected by the occupation nothing will change. Apparently that tipping point is closeer than Netanyahu would wish.
Arab attempt to sieze 50% of Israel's 22% of the Mandate. Their 78% is called JORDAN, where they belong. Israel is going nowhere, in their 22%, got it? Abbas can hook up with his 23 other Arab countries. There is only one Jewish country, and will remain that way.
He can force the Pals to accept these temporary (yeah, right) bordes right now, and then shaft them later when they come asking for the other 50% that Israel "commited" itself to. After all, Israel made a "commitment" in the Road Map to freeze ALL settlement activity, and then reneged on that "commitment". Israel has form; it reneges on its commitments, and does so without compunction.
Israel is in a strong position relative to the West as it is the only democracy in the ME and the strongest military force in three region except for the US. The Palestinians are now a side issue. If Clinton and Blair had been concentrating on the "real issues" of the ME, the current mess might have been foreseen if not prevented.
The ideas proposed by Netanyahu are an insult to even minimal intelligence! Jerusalem is missing entirely from the plan while Israel continues construction there and throws out Palestinians. All other temporary borders are treated similarly. BUT, AT THE SAME TIME, the Palestinians have not proposed anything reasonable either. Just THE SAME impossible demands as ever. At least, they don't insult any intelligence. They simply stand still at the zero line. And that's what the Quartet deals with.
Many reasonable plans exist, but hardliners like Hamas and the Israel government (from left to right) refuse to even discuss them. The Arab Peace Initiative, for one, is a very reasonable plan.
If everyone behaved like Ilan Baruch, this conflct would be over. That's what counts: dignity, self-respect and integrity. Can you put yourself in the shoes of Israelis diplomats? Getting orders from Lieberman and Bibi.. OMG.. must be the most horrifying job in the world... well at least they get good salaries for that...
There is no peace on the table.
Reply to Peter SM. The reason the Pals are not at the table is: It is very hard to negotiate when a big bully with a baton in his hand is standing over you while your on the ground and he wants more of your land and when you refuse he hits you again and again.
The best solution for lasting peace is a ONE STATE SOLUTION, with the same friends and the same enemies, then it is not neccesary for "Palestine to Rise upon the Ruins of Israel". With a two state solution Israel will still be seen as the west's proxy in the middle east, antone cann then arm Israel's immediate neighbour with any weapon it wants to, all over the world people of different cultures and religeons lives side by side why not in Israel.
.... is provided in the PM's book, "A Durable Peace." A peace of deterrence based on relatively secure borders providing 40 miles of boundary between the Mediterranean and the Jordan River, with Arab autonomy over their cities, is immediately achievable. A "peace among democracies" -- in which the Arab nation will give up its intransigent hatred of the Jewish nation and instead regard it as an equal among nations will probably take the Arabs some time to accept and digest.
Intransigent hatred of the Jewish nation??? and what about all the anti Arab sentiment that Israel has actively fostered by treating them as lesser human beings, and with Rabbis who proclaim it is OK to kill non Jews I don't think you can complain too much about Arab hatred of Jews. How would you feel if someone stole your land and then treated you like garbage???
No land swap. The new state can ask Jordan for more land. WB is former Jordanian land.
And Netanyahu has pulled another rabbit out of his pocket. Another spin. Another recycling of time and effort. Another move for dragging of feet towards peace. Another bout of deception.
The historical process is inexorably taking over. "Temporary" and "Interim" arrangements have fallen by the wayside.The final solution is just over the horizon. My guess would be, in 2015. Let's see.
Bibi will simply get busy hemming them in from all sides with "temporary" settlements... which will rapidly become immovable...
they'll not give it a second thought. They're serious...lol...NOT desparate!
First he resigns and then creeps up to negotiate on behalf of us Palestinians, can't he just vanish already? Enough failures ya Ma'Saeb.
as you have said you favor, it will be right along the lines Ma'Saeb was working on in the Palestine Papers. And yes he's still there because the NSU will be wound up on 31 March and till then everyone is still there in caretaker capacity.
When they see you say you want a two state solution, but villify anyone who tries to make it happen in practice?
you know where. The Palestinians already realise that the Palestinian state is an Israeli priority to maintain its supposed Jewishness. What the hell why should the Palestinians give Israel that relief unless they get what they want. The Pals are not going to disappear anywhere, even if they are all transferred to Jordan, they will not give up the right to their homeland in Palestine and will pester Israel till kingdom come. So better come up with something that makes sense Mr. Bibi!
After 60 years of 'mulling', nothing has ever come of it. There's nothing to suggest that this 'mull' will be any different.
Only 18 years. WB was Jordanian to 1994.
60% of the West Bank? When your solution is only 5-15% better than Lieberman's you need a reality check. Israel can't use promises of future border re-alignments as a bargaining chip, they just don't materialize. No one would take that deal.
They've been locked in this "all or nothing" mentality ever since 1948. And that's why they have nothing.
But Netanyahu is barking up the wrong tree, because not only will the Palestinians refuse it, so will the international community. He just doesn't seem to realize that the threshold has been reached...the international community no longer feels obliged to tolerate Israel's intrangiece and continued occupation. The 1967 border is the common theme with everyone but, Israel - guess what that means, Bibi?
And he's thinking that when the Palestinians laugh at his...ahemmm...offer, that he can then try to claim "no partner"? Silly boy! The international community will be laughing too...at his transparent ploy. But then it'll stop laughing. All he's doing is further delegitimitizing himself AND Israel with his empty little ploys?
I fail to understand why the sell out Erekat who rightfully resigned is back doin what he does best...protect an fight for the rights of the oppressor...yet claiming to represent the oppressed...however the rules of the game have changed dramatically...finally the Arab Population are showing the world that they have BALLS
end to the Occupation don't trust the Palestinians' sincerity? They hear how much you say you want a two state solution, but then call sell out and traitor to anyone who sits down with Israel and tries to hammer out what its actually going to look like on the ground.
and the previous Israeli governments of Labour and Kadima led coalitions provided serious discussions with the Palestinians about final borders based on 1967 lines with Israel retaining between 3-6% of West Bank territory. If the Likud-led government is indeed showing promising overtures towards peace with the Palestinians, then they must have a very similar peace proposal to that of previous governments.
We have not forgotten the OSLO tragedy and what occurred after the peaceful withdrawal of Gaza which led to increased terrorism and the strengthening of Hamas. The PLO has not changed nor has Arab intentions to destroy Israel. No deal.
This "plan" is just a way to distract the diplomatic environment but it's so ridiculous that Palestinians could propose an Israeli borders similar as 1948. That could be fair.
No social function is of greater value for homeostasis than the concept of human rights . The collapse of modern systems of rule has ever been due to a homeostatic imbalance: when individuals are deprived of any protection the collective suffers, because no system can tolerate the instability of pressure arising from a massive, deprived, and congested center; such systems sooner or later explode, forming new structures. Therefore, the international community has increasingly consolidated to function as a lever against the self-interest of Israel. Israel's new 'temporary solutions' are transparent attempts to stave off that international pressure.
Netanyahu has no intent to ever allow Palestinians any true independence or sovereignty. he has spent his life opposing that concept. Nobody except Israeli right wingers will be fooled, and some Americans. Neither Lieberman nor Netanyahu is capable of good faith or benign intent.
Why do we feel compelled to give them a State, but they only give us a knife in the back? They can not even recognize Israel. If there was no wall, they would murder us. But we mull the idea of a State for them? Come on, Bibby!
to live in a country built on other people's land? You do not recognize that the Palestinians have any right to be there, even though they're the ones who've been there this whole time. (There isn't a wall, there are some long patches of concrete easily surpassable, just ask the illegal workers who cross the border EVERY DAY. the drop in terrorism has little if anything to do with the "wall.")
Is this logical? The PA wants to be recognized, and be a State. Bit the PA refuses to recognize Israel. They want the State of Israel to be wiped from the map. They don't want a two-state solution, where brothers live side by side. So, are we stupid idiots? Should we give the PA a state, and let Hamas shoot us in the back?
Irwin, If Israel treated the Palestinains with respect and dignity they would get respect and dignity back. When you invade someone's homes and smash them down what do you expect flowers. Look how much land Israel has occupies 1946 and the lands of the West Bank since 1967. Israel is now becoming isolated in the free world. No goverement has the right to set the bounds of a ocupied nation.
They just won't give it the recognition you want - i.e. as a "Jewish state" where the full benefits of citizenship are reserved to people with the right ethnic religious background. Nor should they - nobody in the world recognizes Israel in that sense, not even the US. Make a 2 state solution with them, and they will be recognizing a state of Israel that is overwhelmingly Jewish in population. Nobody is going to recognize a "Jewish state" in any other sense than that.
Tommy, your response appears to be wishful thinking. You seem to justify Palestinian violence terror and murderous flowers, because of Israeli aggression either during war or in retaliation for terror and murder of civilians. 1948 borders were artificial, for the British mandated that the Jews receive the land of Israel in full, and the Palestinian receive Jordan. The Arab nation disagreed, and attempted to destroy the Jews. The Jews fought back and were winning. When a cease-fire was call, those were the borders that day. The actual borders of the land of Israel are larger than those of 1967. Boundaries are determined either by war and conquest(, as in the US and most countries), historical rights, or political right. So, Tommy, get your facts straight
Some posters still think this is about 'land for peace". The situation now is not about land for peace, but about full equality or full sovereignty. Anything else is an infringement of people's basic human rights, and a lose-lose game. Temporary borders are a false ruse for israel to keep stalling and imposing its unilateral facts on the ground. Either desegregation, participation and equal education --or '67.
Take a small test tube cleaning brush, dip it in acid and ram it into your ears and rotate until you have forgotten everything that Bibi Netanyahu has ever done or stood for. Then, and only then, might you believe this article is true. The man had done everything he could at every point in his life to rid the West Bank of Palestinians and prevent peace at any cost. Who, in their right mind, would believe he has changed?
Some people mistake Israel's words for actions. others mistake Israel's words for actual intent. The fact is that there is no relationship whatever between Israel's words and actions except by coincidence. Bibi says this. Bibi says that. Bibi says something else. What has changed? The wonder of it all is that people still take any Israeli politician seriously when he says something. If America is serious about peace, they will first cut Israel's allowance. That is the only way that Israelis will understand that America is serious. As long as America continues to support Israel's fun and games, there will be more fun and games. At least Bibi is having fun.
Almost everyone in America knows nothing about the Middle East. This is all biased and pro Israel. Do people in America know about the Palestinians? No. The whole pro Israel propaganda in the US works big time!
Mr. PM is digging his own political demise. His flowery speeches as well as his "temporary borders" will only anger the Palestinians. He has no right to shut off the Palestinians from demanding their legitimate aspirations..
Israel has its "de jure" border (the Partition Plan lines). Israel also has its "de facto" border (the Green Line). Israel also has its "illegal" border (the separation wall). It now wants to add a "temporary border"? How many f**king borders does Israel want? There is no need to pluch Yet Another Type Of Border out of thin air i.e. just choose one outta those first two and say to the Palestinians "Well, that'll have to do until we get the peace treaty signed, sealed and delivered".
most of the posts here seem to be anti-netanyahu (which is often the norm) and pro-peace. Simple question: why the hell did you Israelis elect this man into power if you knew he was an 'armor plated bullsh***r'.
This fixation with Netanyahu is irrational. Previous left-wing and centrist governments had EXACTLY the same results at "peace negotiations" as current right-wing government of Netanyahu. Perhaps the problem is not with the Israeli government?
Evade and deflect. Netanyahu's middle name. He can prove his true intentions if he freezes the building of the settlements during the negotiations period.
Arabs didn't show up for the nine(!) months of the ten month construction freeze. And you still think they are genuinely trying to achieve peace?
Bibi is stone walling. No one can trust him. He want to continue the status quo. Palestinians, you will not see a just peace from Bibi or other Israely governments. Dissolve PA and go for a single-state solution. the best solution for all specially for Pals and secular Jews.
And I don't think it's a best solution for me. Thankfully it's not up to Palestinians to decide.
Wait few more weeks and he will have new statement -- "No Palestinian State". he is only interested in his job.
LOL. Is'nt diplomatic language fantastic? How can one "commit" on something that "would eventually be" ?!?
No one is going to forcefully transfer 500,000 people many of whom were born there.
as citizen of Palestine
your math is wrong. jordan + israel = palestine. but luckily for israel, the people are willing to settle for much less than that. unluckily for the palestinians, israel will settle for nothing less than 100%.
Your history is a bit short. The West Bank and Gaza were populated with Palestinians in 1967 from Egypt and Jordan. In the 1920s, the Palestinians did not flow to the Holy land until they were forced of of the oil lands by the Brits. Both the Brits and Turks keep good Tax Records.
that by the time of the first aliya in 1881/2, there was already a settled, native population in Palestine - 81 per cent of whom were Muslim, 15 Christian, and just 4 per cent Jewish, overwhelmingly concentrated in jerusalem.
Bibi sounds increasingly more desperate, as the liberation wave sweeps through the Middle East. Now he wants the Palestinians to support what would constitute a string of semi-autonomous bantustans under tight Israeli control. He says they would be temporary, but the occupation itself was also supposed to be temporary. He won't be fooling anyone. The two state solution is dead. Now the only options are either apartheid or democracy for all from river to sea.
Hamas clearly states 3 times a week they want to kill us all and take over Tel Aviv. The PA wants the same thing but is more savvy about it. I doubt Israel would find peace among Islamic fundamentalists, but making this move would help expose them for what they are.
Hamas has never said they want to kill you and take over Tel Aviv. Are you totally delusional or just a big fibber?
Arabs already OPENLY and CLEARLY state they will exterminate us all, the moment they get a chance, peace agreement or no peace agreement. There is no way to "expose" them any further.
an interim agreement is a no-go for the Pals, and one that offers them 40-50% of the WB is an outright insult
The next Israeli government can then disavow the "agreement" as Netanyahu did with all prior Israeli government agreements when he took office this time. Well, he did partially recognize the Suez treaty and the Egypt-Israel Peace Treaty, sorta.
Beam me up Scotty, there is no intelligent life in the PMO - only permanent delusion!
I agree with interim borders. Those established by the UN in 1948 should do nicely
Dream on.
actually the UN partition borders are from 1947, and do NOT include either Jerusalem or Jaffa as part of the "Jewish state" nor do they include most of the "1967 Green Line" If there are to be 2 states rather than a single Secular Democratic state in all of Eretz-Israel /Palestine Then those must be the borders. Any takers?????
... if israel carries on the way it is. get real
Why did the Arabs not accept these borders in 1948 but now they are willing ? Why now and not before. Answer that question Rob of Melbourne. And then tell me why you Aussies are still occupying the lands of the indigenous natives of Australia ?
Israel will not exist in 2048
Too late for the 48 borders. The Palestinians rejected them. They will never get the same deal again. Should have agreed to them when it was first offerred.
After all, these are only TEMPORARY borders, are they not? And *these* temporary borders would have the advantage of "legitimacy", in a way that "borders" on "60 percent of the West Bank" do not. After all, did Bibi just pluck that figure out of thin air, or did he pull it out of a hat?
As that does not agree with you either,set them straight as well. Who do you think you are? Are you going over to put your backside on the line or do you just give orders safely & pompously from Melbourne.
Why should the Palestinians have accepted the imposed colonisation of their country? The American and Canadian Indians, New Zealand Maoris, Australian Aborigines and other indigenous peoples all fought against colonisation. Why now and not before? Because colonisation is a reality. They won't get all their country back; simple as that. And the difference with Australia is that like Canada, NZ, the US and even eventually the South Africans the indigenous people were made full, free and equal citizens in one state. Something Israel refuses to do as well as denying them independence.
it may not last until 2018
UBGA 181 partition plan was only a proposal. And the proposed Arab state is dead burried.
Fact is the entire international community is not inclined to entertain more stalling rubbish from Netanyahu. My what an inept loser he is.
The International community is pretty overwhelmed at this stage with "curtain" that is currently being raised in the ME. Who knows what the ME will look like in a year. Any sane government in Israel would have to be insane to try to conclude anything at the moment.
You are quite right and why BB is mulling,and I hope he MULLS for a long time before jumping in to a deal that will hav to be postponed for quite some time. Not giving in to any threats where by the Palestinians are JUST twiddling their thumbs thinking by abstaining to a dialogue to negotiate anyway they will achieve what they are not entitled to anyhow..Netanyahu should STOP pretending there is going to be any peace particularely Now..
Before you get in too deep,and wake up to see the mulling was successful,without giving anything away..If the Palestinians want an interim peace deal...say: Of course I have never stopped trying.But if you Abbas and clique cannot decide to come and sit down to the negotiating table, the mulling will be exhausted.........To be frank PM Netanyahu they had over TEN MOTH to digest it,but still cannot reconcile.My humble opinion for what is worth PM Netanyahu is the mere FACT the Palestinians are not serious for obvious reasons. i.e They are disatisfied ..will continue so unless and until YOU AND ISRAEL WILL DISAPPEAR ON THE FAR HORIZON.And therein is the biggest problem you and Israel has/is facing. By all means "MULL" No more though because thery will take it as a "WEAKNESS ". Shalom ve La Briyut from England
Palestinians want East Jerusalem as their capital, money for settling refugees, withdrawal of the huge settlement blocs, the borders of 1967 with any land Israel keeps to be exchange for 1948 lands. It's that or have the state of Israel in 2070 end up like a Mubarak country taken over by the Palestinians. Find a deal that protects both sides from harm.
Monetary restitution for the rest of their lives for all those killed by Israel. Just like they're getting from Germany. Seems only fair.
And it doesn't seem fair that thousands of civilians murdered by Palestinian terror should be compensated by "Palestine"? The one who STARTS the conflict is responsible for the damage. Arabs started this conflict in 1948 by OFFICIALLY rejecting establishment of BOTH Israel and Palestine.
in line with 1967 boundaries with the Palestinians temporarily having complete control over all construction In East Jerusalem may be saleable. Anything less Netanyahu gets laughed out of town.
There is no way Palestinian leadership will be able to sell to Palestinian public any agreement which is not seen as a step to "freeing all of Palestine". And there is no chance any Israeli government, even a very left-wing one, will ever accept such an agreement.
NEVER,AS A PALESTINIAN WE WILL NEVER ACCEPT THIS DEAL.IF ABBAS ACCEPT HE WILL FOLLOW MUBAREK ROAD.
That's the problem with PA negotiators, they're all or nothing... and all they get is nothing. You have to start somewhere.
100% of the data says that giving land to Arabs means they use it to launch rockets into Israel. But its worth taking in circles on this "temporary borders" nonsense if it keeps Obama occupied until he can be voted out of office. Reality is Israel needs to trust the US in any peace deal, and with untrustworthy Obama in the White House, Israel is not going to make any moves with risk involved.
100% of the data, hmmm. The deal with Egypt for one did not turned sour, similarly the deal with Jordan is holding well. You are right about Gaza and Lebanon so your diagnosis is 50% right. Buying time with "temporary borders", yes that is what it is and hope international community sees through it.
giving land to Arabs means they use it to launch rockets into Israel... You mean... like Jordan and Egypt?
Israel gave up "every grain of sand" for what was supposed to be fully normal diplomatic , trade and tourism relations. Egypt has massively cheatedon that, too - Israeli embassy is way out in the desert where nobody can access it, not next to all the others. Egypt's ambassador has been gone more than he has been in Israel - fake diplomatic relations. Not worth the full withdrawal. As for Jordan, they got no land back to fire rockets from, but managed to murder 7 Israeli school children on a 1-acre pieceof land they did get back.
to Arabs under mutually acceptable, negotiated terms, that land is not used for the firing of rockets into Israel (think Jordan, Egypt). 100% of the data also says that where Israel withdraws troops from Arab land unilaterally, so as to avoid having to make the compromises required in a negotiated withdrawal, it comes under rocket fire (think Gaza, South Lebanon).
Emancipator" Reagan was known as "The Great Communicator." Will Netanyahu go down in history as "THE GREAT EQUIVOCATOR?"
Lincoln had a better speech writer and a better "sence" of history
The only thing that stopped the creation of a Palestinian state is that it wanted Jerusalem as it's capital. We all know what will happen next. Palestinians will refuse to an offer of a state with temporary borders unless these borders include East Jerusalem... Not feasable.
Man, how can any of you live with yourselves?
The only thing that stopped the creation of a Palestinian State was their refusal of one when offered in 1948, so they could join forces with the Arabs and try to destroy Israel.
refusing to allow hundreds of thousands of europeans to colonize their land and having the gall to ask their neighbors to help prevent the further reduction of their territory.
Just like South Africa before 1990... Bota had lost the PR game, but was still winning in terms of strategic ground. In the end, he lost. The PR game is everything in the era of World news. And Israel, still living in Biblical times (the only times that give credibility to its wild nationalism) still has not taken notice. 2020... and Israel will be a gone state...
Why 2020 ?
If the Israelis offered all of Israel and the West Bank except three blocks of Tel Aviv the posters on this site would find something - everything - wrong with it.
Or maybe they could just try offering the 1967 borders with mutually acceptable land swaps. You know, that two state solution everyone's talking about, except the Israeli govt.
Until actions are implemented it's just a high pitched sound hurting the ears.
the 1947 UN mandated borders on 55% of the Original Palestine. Anything else needs to be negotiated so as to not validate land theft which illegal under Geneva convention.
The Pal rejected that plan. Too late to get it now. What was possible in 1947 is not possible today
Israelis aren't fooled - we know peace isn't impossible, but we need reassurance that what we're offering will be enough for a real peace. It's jackholes like you that prevent us from trusting Palis.
Then don't forget the 76% of the 1917 League of Nations Mandate over "Palestine" that the British lopped off back in 1922 to give to Abdulah for Transjordan. As for the 1947 UN partition plan, that became null and void when the Arabs rejected. That train left the station a long time ago.
That means Israel gets 45% of original Palestine? Considering Jordan is 88% of Original Palestine and Israel only 8% of Original Palestine that sounds good! We'll increase our land several times over!
Israel bases its claim to the West Bank on Biblical documents.......apparently what was possible in the past IS possible now.
That's the plan that Israel justifies it's existence on. Surely, if it uses that to justify it's state, only borders set with that resolution can only ever be seen as truly Israeli.
"The Pal rejected that plan". They were never asked to "accept" it, Rachel. "Too late to get it now." Why, exactly? That plan was IMPOSED - not "offered" - and so it is still good to go no matter how many times the Pals "reject" it.
Whether you trust and or don't trust the Palestinians is irrelevant. Deal with your fears yourself. Your days of 'offering' are over.
"Orginal Palestine" (mandatory) includes Jordan.
Israel bases it claims on the mandate of Palestine. A mandate for jewish homland.
And how the tricky Brits reneged by creating the ARTIFICIAL COUTRY CALLED JORDAN.. Now that is more the truth rather than your assumption of the wrong interpretation of the genva convention that brogated wht I WROTE ABOVE.Let me assure you....th thieves are the Arabs who flocked ini the holy land when the early pioneers came in the 1800 long before there was such thing as the Balfour Declaration DREAMED of..It was then that some from the surounding countries saw the marvel the Jews created an began to flock inio the what was barren,turned into a blooming place..You oughht to read it somtime Neil
imposed. It was a recommendation by the General assembly at the time. The General assembly of the UN has no authority to impose any decision as by the UN Charter, all General Assembly decisions are only recommendations
imposed. It was a recommendation by the General assembly at the time. The General assembly of the UN has no authority to impose any decision as by the UN Charter, all General Assembly decisions are only recommendations
imposed. It was a recommendation by the General assembly at the time. The General assembly of the UN has no authority to impose any decision as by the UN Charter, all General Assembly decisions are only recommendations
imposed. It was a recommendation by the General assembly at the time. The General assembly of the UN has no authority to impose any decision as by the UN Charter, all General Assembly decisions are only recommendations
"we still need more time to establish our facts on the ground in Jerusalem. Let the Palestinians have the bits of the West Bank we don't want, and by the time the interim period is up, we will have made sure there's nothing left for them in Jerusalem." We've seen this movie before, Bibi.
The Arabs are not getting Jerusalem. What's there to argue?
Yes in the way the arabs have etnically cleansed east Jerusalem and Hebron after 1949
It's all Israel's capital. East, West, North, South.
we'll get it whether u like it or not we'll get it and watch us
we'll see ... ^^
Fish, the Arabs don't want Jerusalem, the Palestinians want it because it is theirs anyway. As was all of the land which Israel now occupies. You really don't get it do you? Unless Israel accepts it is a coloniser and admits to the wrongs inherent in its foundation and makes redress to the indigenous Palestinians the Israelis will end up with nothing. The Palestinians will get all of their country back.
Jerusalem is in Israel. And according to UNSC1860 the state of Palestine is a vision.
and Washington D.C.
"Jerusalem is in Israel." -- 191 states say only part of Jerusalem is in Israel. Of course you can ignore them, but in the interest of honesty be presise, like: "Jerusalem is in Israel, at least a tiny proportion of mankind says so"
One can argue that in recent decades a Palestinian national identity has emerged as a byproduct of the Arab opposition to the Jewish national liberation movement of Zionism, but for the "Palestinians to get their country back" they need to have had one in the first place. There is nothing in the historical record suggesting that is the case. You also write re: Jerusalem "the Palestinians want it because it is theirs anyway." Jerusalem not only was the capital of Israel in ancient times (and never the capital of any Arab political entity called "Palestine" or anything else), but has retained a solid, documented Jewish demographic majority since at least the 1850s. It's a Jewish-majority city and the capital of the Jewish state, although its Arab residents should be welcome to stay if they remain law-abiding.