Netanyahu makes final push to foil Swedish plan to divide Jerusalem

Spain should give into to the terrorists also then and grant the ETA it's wishes.

those are the people who live and are living in the land occupied by the jews for thousands of years

Since they (and rest of EU) have NO locus-standi whatsoever in this issue!

My advice to Bibi is to make the whole city of Jerusalem the Capital of Israel. Jerusalem was,has been and always be part of Israel. Start making changes now by publishing books and letter heads with Jerusalem Capital of the Jewish state. Don't let these Jew haters take away that what belongs to you, in part or in whole. Bibi, I advice you to Build-Bibi-Build on every nook and cranny of land that belongs to you. Don't stop building just because Obama doesn't like it. Tell Obama to stick his nose where the sun don't shine...and believe me...he'll adhere to your wishes.

"take another look, zeev - genetic studies prove otherwise" (eric) I should I have been more specific, and wrote: " 'OUR' Palestinians are not genetically different from their brethren in Jordan." Sorry.

I pity those people who are dont understand what israel is doing? i consider them as blind .God bless them all and hope they actually understand that what israel is doing is totally wrong.days after days massacre and eviction from their own land by the bloody israelly government is just destroying the PS.US is shamelessly supporting israel.now is the time to come forward for a peaceful middle east .the PA have the right to have their own country.so everybody plz open ur eyes and see whats happening and support the swedish plan.

Facts on the ground mean nothing except that Israel will have to uproot the "popsicles" and move them out of there. You may want to include Hizballa and Iran and Turkey in the equation this time.

If you bother with facts, most Arabs in the Mandated territory did not emigrate to Israel from surrounding countries. They are indigenious. Palestine is where they originated and where they belong, and they predate Israelites in Canaan. When Israelite tribes crossed into Canaan, Canaan, also know as Palestine, was occupied by semite tribes, Amorites, Hittites and Jebusites. The words Jews and Arabs weren?t known yet.The Jebusites had built Jerusalem and occupied it for 100 years after the Israelites arrived in Canaan. The New York University School of Medicine, and the National Academy of Sciences have discovered that Middle East Jewish men have a common genetic signature with Palestinian, Syrian and Lebanese men, and not with any other non-Jews in the world. In the academic world many noted scholars and historians judge the Jebusites to be forebears of the Palestinians.

I think that if the Palestinians want to move unilaterally so should Israel and simply annex the entire west bank. If you are going to be vilified as a colonial power, you might as well do it and get rid of the entire corruption known as the PA and start all over again to build government from the bottom up starting at municipalities.

I don't know what you mean by "Palestinians are not genetically different from their brethren in Jordan." If you mean Palestinians who live in Jordan, you are right. It you mean not different from Jordanians you are dramatically wrong. When Joshua led the Israelites into Canaan, also known at that time as Palestine, the land was occupied by semite tribes, Hittites, Amorites and Jebusites. The Jebusites had built Jerusalem, and occupied it for 100 years after the Israelites entered Canaan.They weren't called Arabs then, and the Israelites weren't called Jews. In the academic world there are many notable historians and scholars who recognize the Jebusites as the forebears of Palestinians. According to the New York University School of Medicine, and the National Academy of Sciences, Middle East Jewish men and Palestinian, Lebanese and Syrian men have the same genetic signature, different from any other non-Jews in the world.

the "palestinians" are distinct from arabs, and more closely related to the sephardim of the middle-east.

shelly-israel must be mad???? yes they must be. you just said that there were 250,000 pals living in israel. you are right. and they get all the benifits that the israeli's do. now, count and see just how many israeli"s are allowed to live in palestine...????

Most palestinians are of Arab descent, many families moved in from neighbouring countries at the same time as jews started comming. Economy "boomed" so they came from Lebanon, Syria, Egypt and even Saudi. Also Arafat came from Egypt! Yes, palestinians are Semitis, but converted jews, give me a break!

"the Palestinians can never agree between themselves." (A. Zekaria) This is patently absurd The Palestinians are not a special kind of Arabs, genetically different from their brethren in Jordan.

17: "You apparently know whose Land it is. Kindly share your knowledge." http://www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/un/res181.htm To find out who owns any territory OUTSIDE of the "corpus separatum" of Jerusalem you start at "Part II - Boundaries" and work your way down. To find out who owns what in the territory INSIDE the "corpus separatum" of Jerusalem your run your finger down to "Part III - City of Jerusalem" and read from there. If you still find that difficult then look up General Assembly resolution 303 Hope that helps, 17.

It's amusing to listen to Netanyahu say that the EU should not determine the final result of Israel-Palestine negotiations when in fact Israel is doing all it can to create "facts on the ground" hence doing all it can itself to pre-determine the results of any negotiations. Negotiations should be based on binding UNSC resolutions and International law. I salute the government of Sweden and all the European countries who support East Jerusalem as Palestine's capital.

he thinks that israel is not the rightful owner of the golan and jerusalem !

"Jerusalem, the Golan Heights must be returned to its rightful owners. " In 1948, Jordan captured the West Bank and East Jerusalem, then kicked out all the Jews. Who are you claiming are the, "rightful owners?" In 1948, Syria captured part of the North. Who was the rightful owner? In 1967, Jordan and Syria attacked Israel. No consequences for such an attack? Do the Arabs get do-overs every time they launch a losing war against the Jews?

Anyone who reads the King James version of the Bible, and believes in divine order, knows that it is impossible for Jerusalem to be divided. These latest set of events only moves us closer to the fulfillment of Bible prophesy --- The coming of our Lord Jesus Christ!

Jerusalem, the Golan Heights must be returned to its rightful owners. No need for 2 different countries to share one capital. Tel Aviv must and will remain as the Jewish capital. Shalom, Allah Akbar.

Jerusalem is already a divide city but Israel is doing everything it can with facts on the ground to change this. Do you want the PA to have limited control over all of Jerusalem(with veto on building permits) or full control over only part.

Even in the 6th Century BC when the Persians wrestled this land away from the Assyrians and offered Jews to return, they chose to remain in Babylonia. Even when the Arabs took control of the land in the 7th century and the non Muslim rights were protected and their holy places, you chose to live in Arab lands over Europe, but not in Palestine. It wasn't until this theory of Zionism that evolved at the late 19th century that you decided Jerusalem is holy. For God sakes, current Hebrew was reinvented by Elizer Ben Yehuda. You want to talk about indignant or INDEGENIOUS? You lost that claim ages ago.

You said ?When our citizens are killed because of the actions of the Israeli State that makes it our business?. Untrue. British citizens died & remain at risk because Muslem fundamentalists do not appreciate Western values and freedoms, and because Britain is too politically correct to mind being ruined by the policy of appeasing stone-age attitudes at home (whilst fighting them in e.g. Afghanistan). If Israel fell to Muslim pressure, aided & abetted by the likes of yourself, Britain would be one step up in the queue, not safer. You should be proud that Britain has supported the idea of an age-old people having their own tiny nation with a Capital at least as much linked to them as any other National Capital of the World is identified with any other self-determinable people. You should be embarrassed to repeat ?Ner-ner-ner-ner-ner? playground lines like ?If Israel takes umbrage at the European Union`s stance then they can boycott Europe? 5 times.

Your supercilious question,"What Occupation?" hardly deserves an answer. But at the risk of showing impatience, read the following slowly. Israel occupied the West Bank, Gaza and Jerusalem in 1967. Because it has refused to withdraw from occupied land, it is violation of international law. Israel is in violation of UN Security Council resolutions, 242 (1967),452 (1979) and 465 (1980), which make all Israeli settlements in the West Bank and the annexation of Jerusalem illegal. UN resolutions 476 & 478 declare that the Knesset?s 1980 declaration that Jerusalem united is the Capitol of Israel to be null and void and a violation of Article 49 of 4th Convention. Israeli settlements in West Bank are also in violation of Article 49, and Articles 53 and 147 of the 4th Geneva Convention and of the 1st Protocol article 85 of the Convention. These violations can be prosecutable in the International Criminal Court in the Hague as a war crime

I think it is a fundamental mistake. I'm in favor for one country (like Belgium, the Netherlands, Switzerland and so many others that went through fierce religious wars and were different communities finally live together). Jews and muslims and freethinking people on both sides are adult enough to live together. I'm sure this is possible but not when everybody is giving lessons how to do that. By the way, it's Europe that created this problem, and in a longer way the intolerrance and discrimination of jews in both muslim and christian world.

Since you don't answer your own question, I'll do it for you. By and large, the Palestinians are the descendants of the people who have always lived in Palestine. This is certainly far truer of them than it is of the 'Jews' -- who as a rule have more than a touch of the ol' Yemeni/Germanic/Slavic/Khazar tar barrel to them. As one look will confirm.

You said: "After this declaration, the status of Jerusalem remains undecided." But if "European Union foreign ministers to adopt the position to recognize Jerusalem as the capital of both Israel and Palestine" they already decided the status of the city, don't they? (to be the capital of two states). Once they (EU countries) will make the offcial declaration of the status of Jerusalem they need to start to move their embassies to that city, as it is normal protocol in relations between countries.

A lot of people seem to think that Sweden is running some sort of campaign against Israel. "Why is Sweden so obsessed with Israel", someone wrote... Well, who is obsessed? Not a single day have passed the last six months without Israeli newspapers have written some anti-Swedish article. Swedish newspapers on the other hand doesnt even find this so called conflict newsworthy. You have to read a lot of Swedish newspapers to find even one single word about this EU-proposition. So, who is obsessed with who? And some people on this forum (and even more in Jerusalem Post) seem proud over the fact that Folke Bernadotte was murdered by Israelis i Jerusalem 1948. Shame on you, you're a disgrace. How can you write things like that and then complaint over the fact that a lot of Swedes dont like Israel? Bernadottes murderer was elected prime minister of Israel. What does that say about Israel?

You claim that the 4th Geneva article49 does not apply to the Illegal settlers because they are all voluntary returnees to their former homes. "They pushed us to come here. They gave us no other choice. We did not necessarily want to settle in a place beyond the Green Line. But we had no other options inside the Green Line. "Even in Beit Shemesh secular Jews are trying to stop us from living there," added Rubinstein, referring to recent controversy surrounding building tenders reserved for haredi-only residents. "America does not want us either. They won't give us a Green Card. We are in a worse situation than Sudanese refugees. They don't want us in Israel they don't want us in America, where are we supposed to go?" Unlike many settlements located beyond the Green Line in Judea and Samaria, Beitar is populated primarily by haredi families who came out a desire to escape the cramped quarters and high prices in the traditional haredi centers of Jerusalem and Bnei Brak.

Embassies will stay in Tel Aviv until the status of Jerusalem has been finally settled between the concerned parties. "Now, after this declaration, they must move them to Jerusalem." After this declaration, the status of Jerusalem remains undecided.

description of the modern history of Israel?

deal???. Did not think so.

For the last 60 years European countries kept their embassies in Tel-Aviv for the reason that they did not recognize Jerusalem as the capital of Israel. Now, after this declaration, they must move them to Jerusalem. Otherwise their decision to recognize Jerusalem as a capital of JEWISH (and Palestinian) states becomes null and void.

"As a Christian Palestinian, I think it is important to mention that two of the three holy faiths of this land are predominantly Palestinian. Who the hell gives Israel the right to declare the Church of the Holy Sepulcure and the Aqsa Mosque are Israeli?" Same entity which gives Arabs the right to declare that the Temple Mount is Arab... Or Joseph's Tomb, or any number of Jewish holy sites. Why are Arabs allowed access to holy sites under Israeli rule, but Jews are not allowed access to holy sites under Arab rule? You want to get indignant about rights?

"The 1948 borders of Israel, in the UN declaration, is not a case of negotiation. It would mean that Israel would be half the size of the 1967 borders. Have you seen the maps? Many have made concessions? to the growth of Israel, far beyond what is fare, even the Palestinians." According to the 1948 borders Jews and Arabs would have been living on BOTH sides of the partition. After the 1948 war, both Jews and Arabs were only living on the Israeli side of the armistice lines. The Arab side was wiped clean of Jews. Then they declared war on Israel again in 1967. How fair was that?

"I suggest you propose that Sweden changes it`s stance and encourages other states to do the same" We are.

i do mean Barclays and HSBC. It was not a question or a guess. All of the Arab states are not the enemies of Israel, some are friends and partners. The Jewish lobby is still well and alive the last i heard.You are right about the collapse of the EU economy and Israel.Unfortunately, it might be the point but the US is/will still be there for Israel and, probably, not the EU? They may help the UK. No serious economist believes the Chinese numbers as you could find on Bloomberg, NYT, or Wall street Journal It seems to be cultural more than economic analysis. If the Sunday Times does, they do at their own risk along with their readers.

Why would Muslim states need to be pressured by the "P"A in order to accept the Swedish resolution on Jerusalem and a "Palestinian" state? Can it be that Muslim states don't want to allow a "Palestinian" state? The UN is going to issue another resolution to outline the borders of "Palestine" based on pre-1967 borders? Sounds like the "Palestinians" smell blood in the water and are increasing their demands, believing that the EU and the UN will back them up. "Palestinians" will never compromise. Jordan is the "Palestinian" state.

"that`s the way it`s going to be forever." He who uses the term 'forever' in a political or historical context has revealed himself a fool ...

"..find out the whole world looks forward to creating an Arab state there" The whole world except the Arabs themselves. Just as they didn't want that back in 1948. Their goal has never been to have this imaginary state in the Jewish land, all they want is to deny the Jews to exist. The same thing they call for in their charters, and the same thing their religion is calling for. The whole world Chris, except the Arabs themselves. Am Israel Chai!

Israeli Basic Law (7/30/1980) (in part): "1. Jerusalem united in its entirety is the capital of Israel." Ramallah is the capital of Palestine. Get used to it because that's the way it is and that's the way it's going to be forever.

As a Christian Palestinian, I think it is important to mention that two of the three holy faiths of this land are predominantly Palestinian. Who the hell gives Israel the right to declare the Church of the Holy Sepulcure and the Aqsa Mosque are Israeli? This are Palestinian whether you like it or not and the more you continue to cut up the occupied territories like cottage cheese, the more you will see the one state solution become the reality you greedy fools (Israel)

The basic principle behind the ability to repay debt is taxing and borrowing, the rest is nonsence. The US can do it, the EU and Germans could/can not which is why the "swap Agreement." It is that simple. Learn about the real world and you might not be fooled as my generation was by the econmists the governments, and greed. Regards, awj

"There is no Arab state or country in Judea and Samaria." From where did you copy such a witty statement? Of course there is none, because Israel holds the area under occupation, and should you happen to read a newspaper very now and then you will find out the whole world looks forward to creating an Arab state there - even, if only by lip-service, the Israeli government.

I notice you keep on tossing around the large numbers and the big talk, but avoid to provide the very basic data I asked for ... ... and for a reason I would say.

No it isn't and you know it. With affordable universal heath care medicare's funding will be reduced by natural shrinkage. You are just scaremongering as Obama succeeding in this and the American people liking it, it will cement a second term for Obama. Which is a Zionist's worse nightmare. Fact is Obama is not an Israel firster and you don't like it. Either that or it is because he is Black.

What planet you living on? Because on my planet the occupation of the West Bank is illegal, the settlements are illegal under International Law. Your government is going to merely formalise what is already the stance of many European Union member states. Don't like it? I suggest you propose that Sweden changes it's stance and encourages other states to do the same.

The basic problem for Germany is that they have been the financiers of the EU/ECB for many years until they ran out of money and patients about 18 to 20 months ago. The US then intervened to rescue the EU. Relative to the rest of the EU, Germany is in better shape than most, but the relationship of GDP to debt has deteriorated greatly over the past three years. As you know, the ECB injected about 900M Euros into the Euro Zone economy about three years ago without any affect. The problem for Germany relative to its debt is that Germany did not receive any value for the borrowed money as it was spent in other EU economies, and it failed to revive the EU's economy. Consequently, Germany must pay a disproportional amount of debt relative to its domestic economy. The extra 900M was theirs.

Sir, It was you who introduced the subject. And it is you who insists on your right to know nothing on the subject. You also have no idea of my opinion of Mr. Obama Presidency. I do think it is useful in many senses. And last but not least-tou wrote "... merely pointed out the demise of a programme which will no longer be required in time, and certainly not require current levels of funding." - it is gibberish - show it to your American friends ... In other words

I am not too impressed by Jews who praise living in Israel but prefer to stay elsewhere - mustn't be so bad at all ...

Occupied Palestine is for the Palestinians is a fact not a statement or personal opinion. Sir: I was born and raised their and I don't need you to tel me what is legal or not. Palestinian suffering under Israel and it's settlers occupation is hunting me days & nights. Your present their is illegal never mind what you have to say accept to be more understanding of the humans suffering of the Palestinians under the Israeli occupations that can longer Indore.

There is no Arab state or country in Judea and Samaria. The Arabs rejected the offer presented by the United Nations 1947. There is nothing illegal about building houses in Judea and Samaria for Israeli citizens. The area is governed by Israel, and it is not under any occupation, other than by islamists. Had the Arabs accepted the proposed state back in 1947, the situation would have been different. There is no Arab country in the area, hence no occupation.

You mean the Hong Kong and Shanghai Bank of China I presume formerly The Midland Bank. We'll see but Israel is not in that strong a position. A bankrupt EUrope will sell their arms to anyone who will have them. The Arabs States have oil money. Notwithstanding the amount of trade Israel does with the EU. I would be surprised if Israel's economy would survive a collapse in the EU's economy as you describe. Also in The Sunday Times today there was a very succinct article about the fact that the United States economy has fallen behind that of China. Wouldn't count on Israel having a continuous funding from the US indefinetely. Israel cannot go it alone to even suggest such a thing just shows how barmy Israel firsters are becoming.

What part of universal medicalcare for all do you not understand? A national Insurance plan for the American people which is what we are talking about negates the need for medicare at current levels hence it can be cut with no effect for anyone. Why are you so against everyone having access to affordable medical care? And why do you insist in discyussing American government policy on an Israeli news website in a thread which is about Sweden's attempts to forge a common EU policy over recognition of East Jerusalem as the capital of a future Palestinian State. Fact is you are holding out for the end of Obama's presidency. I have told you that if he gets a decent universal healthcare plan up and running then he will win a second term. You have not written anything to refute this assertion merely pointed out the demise of a programme which will no longer be required in time, and certainly not require current levels of funding.

Sir, I suspect you are the author of Song of Songs - beautiful metaphoric but not legal statement.

"Even the Germans are broke. Let us see who survives as a viable entity longer, Israel or the EU?" My suggestion to you: Provide the data of national debt as percentage of GDP for Germany and Israel. Then let's discuss who is more broke.

" To Israel that means 1948 borders which are not defensible" Stupid parroting of indefensible borders. These borders were never invaded by Arab armies, and that was before the Sinai was demilitarized and Jordan returned behind the river Jordan. As Zionists always maintain that they offered the Palestinians something like 96% of the Westbank, do you seriously suggest that these 4% make the difference between defensible and indefensible?

Makes no difference what the background is. The fact is it is illegal under International Law to claim land acquired through warfare as your own. If Israel takes umbrage at the European Union's stance then they can boycott Europe. The fact is all this is is a re-affirmation to what is existing policy in many capitals of the European Union anyway. The fact is theArabs have chosen peace and it is based on the borders of 1967. It is Israel's refusal to withdraw to these borders which means peace is not possible.

The Palestinians are the rightful owners of the occupied Palestine with it's sky, mountains, valleys, hilltops, water, Olive groves, orange groves, culture, traditions, falafel & hummus and most of all it's al aqusa.

Actually, most of the large British banks have important sub. in the US. The Fed has already assisted Barclays directly and HSBC directly, and there may? be additional "currency swap agreements" with the Bank of England as the UK is the US's closet political , financial, and military ally. We only saw the CSAs from the congressional testimony in the US. The arrangement with Britain goes back to the 1970s and the banking crisis of that era. regards awj

Europe is on the verge of a depression and the ECB is broke. The trade figures for the EU are terrible. Everyone has problem, but Israel has a viable defense industry, and the US will help. What does the EU have except a 1.5T in debt to the US Treasury and aproximately $4.0T in subprime isuues. Even the Germans are broke. Let us see who survives as a viable entity longer, Israel or the EU?

ed against Israel and are being manipulated by the Hamas PR machine.Lets divide the swedish cities.Jerusalem is an open city under the Israeli's. The Swedish are no longer a country operating under their own power. Who are they to push for anything.Jerusalem should never be divided. Why don't the Swedes educate the Pals in peaceful coexistence.Sweden is a second rate country and should be ashamed of itself like its actions during ww11 when it supported nazis and now is supporting Hamas.Mohammed was never in Jerusalem and the Koran only mentions Mecca and Medina

If all Israeli foreign policies over the last 42 years were so stupid, iresponsible and lacking realism, then, others will have to find the appropriate solution. This is the price! And it's, fortunately enough, not a bad one, in my eyes.

The 1948 borders of Israel, in the UN declaration, is not a case of negotiation. It would mean that Israel would be half the size of the 1967 borders. Have you seen the maps? Many have made concessions? to the growth of Israel, far beyond what is fare, even the Palestinians.

Do not blame the living conditions of the Arabs in Judea and Samaria and Gaza on Israel since we both know the situation has been created because of the Arabs themselves. For the love of life, hamas and PLO has charters calling for the annihilation of Israel. Hamas and PLO have initiated numerous annihilation wars on Israel since the early 1900's. If the Arabs wanted peace, there would be peace tomorrow. The day they choose life they will give themselves just that. Hamas MP Fathi Hammas, February 29, 2008 - ?We Desire death Like You Desire Life?

Analysis, God doesn?t want this. But, He will allow it to proceed because it is furthering His plan to have His Son Jesus return to earth and set up His kingdom. Netanyahu is desperately fighting and arguing against a world declaration of a Palestinian state, but it is inevitable according to prophecy. Israel & Netanyahu will resist, but Jerusalem will be divided, not by declaration but by force. Israel will not yield its sovereignty and will suffer a gathering of nations against it. What is happening today was foretold thousands of years ago. The actors are playing their respective roles, and Jesus will enter the stage soon. Jesus will purge the earth of ungodly men, who reign in unrighteousness. Only Jesus will bring unity and peace among men of good will.

You wrote that: "They have no clue what facts the Goldstone report, reported.", referring to the Israeli public. That may so be, and that is of any value? Of course not. Living in the land seeing first the realities every day is what counts. That real world experience is worth infinitely more than a report written in a far away land by someone who is thinking about his career rather than people and history.

Sir, You have no point to make in the area you have no knowledge whatsoever. You can find easily the necessary information about Medicare - program for elderly - cuts. One of the benefits of serious education is knowing the limits of one's own knowledge. You apparently were spared such an opportunity. ps. Ever tried to politicize molecular biology, quantum mechanics or classic ballet?

Palis are negotiating in the media rather than sitting across the table to talk. They want a fait accomplim rather than a give and take. They want pre 67 borders. To Israel that means 1948 borders which are not defensible. Subtleties but non the less red lines. Between fayad and Abbas, neither one wants to discuss and compromise, this is a ll or nothuing game now with the palis trying to get through the back door what they may not get through the front door, aided and abbetted by Sweden. Israel needt o make it perfectly celar. If there are no negotiations, palis can kiss any thought of being in east jerulsalem good by. Any unilatreal indepence declaration would mean that if any terror group or rocket is fired from withion the declared state, that the entire state would be a fair target. No tax money gets returned . Palis get told just once. Play nice in the sandbox, do not attack us, failing which we will destroy your complete infrastructure

True and well said. Occupation must end and let the Palestinian live free.

Well said. The whole has to take the necessary steps before it is too late.

'Palestinians adopted those various religions, they were once also Jews anyway! They are linguistically and culturally Arabized Hebrews of many faiths". The above is what Israeli historian Shlomo Sand tells us in his book: "the Invention of the Jewish People"

You mean Arnhemland? Just thought I'd chuck that in

_____ Because documented intention of all parties to obliterate Israel. I guess it is good enough reason.

Is that why Israel has special agreements and dispensations when it comes to trade with the EUropean Union? Well surely this is not right and you should mobilise to end these benefits that Israel and only Israel gets from the European Union.

Given the foot dragging and pussyfooting on both sides, this might just ease the logjam. Since Israel has the power, it needs the biggest push. If Jerusalem remains united , at the size that was annexed, just wait till the east side starts to vote and take over the municipal government.

It is empiric. The average Israeli, don?t engage in politics. The Israeli press is quite free but people are not informed about the Gaza situation, the overwhelming international support of the Palestinian case, the mal justice of Israeli court system. They have no clue what facts the Goldstone report, reported. They simply don?t care perhaps because they know the deep in their hart that their cause is lost and refrain from taking decision on the matter. And about America a new investigation showed that eight out of ten Americans did not know what EU stood for, not even European Union!

Thanks for proving my point. Misrepresenting what Barack Hussein's Obama is trying to achieve with Healthcare just shows that the rightwing in America and the Israel firsters realise that the inclusion of 14 million Americans into a programme where they get affordable healthcare as oppose to having none will not result in a victory for Obama in the Presidential elections. Just like Zionist Forever you are just pissed that Obama puts the interests of the US citizen above that of Israel. You see the Internet is a wonderful thing, I have many friends in the United States I ask questions and they give me answers, The days of misrepresenting the truth is long gone.

Does Obama want the US to get dragged into another Middle East conflict? The US jews will demand America intervene if Israel is at war with at least Lebanon & palestinians? Does Obama want to have to deal with a situation where Israel refuses to leave land now considered part of the arab state or when Israel seals its borders & the only way between the 2 sides of the arab state is via Egypt & Jordan. What when Israel switches off the lights in the arab state? These are all headaches Obama will have to deal & be put into a no win situation. Israel would demand some territory which has gone to the arabs, settlements, Jerusalem etc Even if a ceasefire is declared Israel will seal borders, revoke work permits for tens of thousands of palestinians. The palestinians will refuse to compromise so we will be out of the frying pan and into the fire and no solution on the horizon, Israel can destroy an arab state economically & it would if it was created without permisson.

it is apparent that chrissi has no idea what the versaille treaty was-not is. try to learn history and then try to learn how to apply analogies.

Yesterdays Irish Times reported that a group high level Israeli police officials had been in NI for a week looking at how the PNSI deals with crowd control and minority issues. Most valuable lesson was that they police from within the community versus from the outside---shooting in. The former is being applied in the Illegal settlements but the latter is the rule of the day when it comes to Palestinians. As to the North---agreed--who needs those days back--and I dont think we will see it again. What with all those shoppers going across the border to spend their euros. Cannot help but help.

Israel must be mad, to include 75 sq km's of "city" that never was part of any Jerusalem, has 250 000 Palestinians in it, who will then be part of the Israeli Arab population, and who will start to vote in municipal elections. What are they thinking of?

Having watched Israeli television, and read The Jerusalem Post and Debkafile. I would say that a great many Israelis are genuingly oblivious to the plight of the Palestinian Nation in the occupied territories. How else would Israelis allow the mayhem created by the settlers, the fact that children going to school have to be protected by their military. The lack of water in the occupied territories leading to the highest level of kidney disease on Planet Earth? I refuse to believe that the vast majority of Israeli Jews find it acceptable that a people be treated in this way. I can only surmies the lack of demonstration is indicative of the level of knowledge of the Israeli people.

"I doubt even the elderly Jews of Florida will, after recieving the benefits of affordable healthcare and prescription..." CL Sir, Your general lack of knowledge is truly astonishing. You've just added to the list the US Health care: the only people who would suffer consequences of the pending legislation are Medicare beneficiaries due to very substantial cuts in financing the program. It is not that I insist you to have your strong opinions based on facts.

This is not about imposing a peace on Israel vis a vis the Versailles Treaty. This is about unifying the EU States into a common policy in their stance towards the Palestinian Israeli conflict. It is essentially a reaffirmation of policy of many capitals within Europe anyway who have not recognised the annexation of East Jerusdalem by Israel. You could always call for an Israeli boycott of the European Union in response if you like that would be the democratic way to handle the situation.

You indicated that swedes in general would know more about the conflict than Israelis in general do. That is ridiculous, and a very uneducated statement. I think your statement says quite a lot about the general knowledge level among swedes regarding the conflict.

I know that and Ireland will recover and become stronger as a result, and as a UK citizen I have a vested interest in seeing Ireland do well. My greatest fear is we go back to the past and the sheer stupidity and hypocrisy of both sides. What a lot of posters in support of Israel fail to acknowledge is that this would be a formalisation of what is already policy in many EU capitals. I think they forget that no-one has recognised the annexation of East Jerusalem and the Golan Heights for that matter. I doubt A wandering Jew actually lives in Dublin but merely uses it because of the past in Ireland and the fact that the Island of Ireland is divided, without mentioning the peace process , the changes in the Irish constitution and the fact that at anytime the Northern Irish can call for a referendum for union at anytime and that we would respect it the result. Also of course the peace we have achieved is the model we are trying to apply to this conflict.

EU AntiSemites have become a tentacle of the Islamist-Jihadist world and is becoming Eurabia. What the EU is doing is trying to strip Israel naked and ravage her. Israel should defend herself vigorously against these dark forces. They are no different than their predecessors-European AntiSemites who rounded and murdered 6 million Jews in the Holocaust in WWII. Now, they think they have Obama as their ally to help them crusade their evil agenda on Israel. It is time Israel tells them to go to Hell! "Eurabia The Euro-Arab Axis" [2006] by Bat Ye'or is a Must Read.

it is well known that after wwi the victorious allies imposed a peace on the losers. entire countries were broken up, in many cases against the will of the effected populations. germany was declared the sole aggressor and was punished with large reparations and loss of territory. we all know the dire consequences that resulted from the implimentation of the versaille treaty. europe must realise that its games of imperial hubris and redrawing of borders will result in wars and endless hostilities. this time, europe is bowing not to its own vindictive and imperialistic ambitions, but rather, to the blackmail of arab and muslim countries. however, europe is highly mistaken if it thinks that it can impose a pax europa on israel.

I think you'll find, and why the Republicans are so vehemently against it. That if Obama can provide ALL Americans with comprehensive healthcare at a price that they can afford, that will be his second term signed sealed and delivered. I doubt even the elderly Jews of Florida will, after recieving the benefits of affordable healthcare and prescriptions would then turn round and vote for someone who would take them away. Sorry to burst your balloon, Israel may be more improtant than the United States for some Americans but not in the numbers that would be needed to consign Barack Hussein Obama to the dustbin of history. Your just pissed that the new administration of the United States puts the needs of it's citizens before the needs of Israel,

pure coincidence that this nonsense was not brought up under the presidency of the czech republic but that of the swedish, that same nation of organ harvesting fame.

" Israel cannot just seize someone else`s land because it covets it you know...." r c Sir, You apparently know whose Land it is. Kindly share your knowledge.

"He was commenting on the commission report which began formal proceeding for excessive borrowing against Ireland, Greece, Spain, France, Latvia and Malta." This was a remark made buy the EU Monatory Affairs comissioner ---Mr Alumnia. Ireland is in debt to China for all the reckless borrowing done over the last 10 years with 80 billion owed to financial institutions by 40% of Homeowners on their home loans.60% have paid off their loans. We have a hard road ahead--but it will be a lesson well learnt. As to wandering Jew---he is self delusional and conjures up facts to aid and abet his blind support for Israel.

Talking about Jerusalem at this stage is putting the cart before the horse. I am a supporter of peace and the Palestinian State and even in sharing Jerusalem as the capitol of both peoples BUT NOT YET! Sweden's plan will completely halt Israel's willingness to negotiate. Netanyahu won't even discuss it. Need to make progress that both countries can live with or it will never happen, there will never be peace or a Palestinian State.

Doing things this way would give the palestinians a shell of a state but Israel still controls water, electric, travel and many other things that the swedish plan can't give. It would lead to a regional war which at least Lebanon would be drawn into thanks to Hizbollah & possibly even Jordan and Syria. Obama knows this and if it came before the UN he would either have to veto the idea to avoid a war & creating a state that wont survive and loose his muslim friends. He lets it go ahead & sparks a war and the US jews blame him for not using the veto and demand that America help Israel dragging the US into another ME war. The Democrats have primaries coming up in March last thing they want is somethng like this which may cost them seats. The only way an arab state can work is if Israel lets it and unless its a state created out of the result of negotiations then Israel will make sure it fails and Obama knows it. For the palestinians going it alone will long term destroy their dreams

It might be that the people are well educated. It might be that the average Swede knows more about the conflict than the average Israeli, and about ten times more than the average American. The rotten thing might be that we know too much.

Both Spain and the United Kingdom have been attacked for their percieved support of Israel, the illegal occupation which includes East Jerusalem. When our citizens are killed because of the actions of the Israeli State that makes it our business. Israel could of course show it's displeasure by boycotting the European Union and ceasing all ytrade with it. But I doubt they will considering the number of Israelis both moving to London to reside and regularly visiting London to go on shopping trips and to do business. It is amusing that you hold such right wing views about the direction Israel is heading whilst maintaining the courage of your convictions and living in the US where such views do not have a personal impact on yourself.

Is there a point to your posting? If it was successfully DIVIDED FOR 19 YEARS, great, what's the problem with doing so now? You never quite manage to answer the core point. Israel cannot just seize someone else's land because it covets it you know, there are a few rules about that kind of thing. More tripe from sunny ca indeed. Me, I live in rainy Britain myself.

Lets see how long Israel would survive without trade with Europe. What is happening is a discussion to formalise what is already foreign policy in many capitals in Europe. That is that we do not accept Israel's annexation of East Jerusalem. That we do accept that East Jerusalem will be the capital of a future Palestinian State. As for the United States basically ensuring that the EU does not go bankrupt. It may apply to Ireland which is in an extremely parlous economic state. I can assure you the United Kingdom is not getting any loans from the US.

a request for the names and addresses and dna reports for all of these indigenous inhabitants ? if you bother with facts most arabs in the mandated territory emigrated to "israel" from surrounding countries when jews began to settle at the end of the 19th century and the british mandate started to build looking for work and most stayed.

for 500 years jerusalem was not divided by the ottomans nor was it divided by the mandatory power for 30 years IT WAS DIVIDED FOR 19 YEARS BY THE UNLAWFUL J0RDANIAN INVASION! more tripe from sunny ca!

...Swedish plan to divide Jerusalem .. Tomorrow, we must be ready to hear Israel accusation that thoses Swedish are nothing but a bunch of neo-nazi.

Why cant the Iraeli capital be Tel Aviv,These palestinians are a semetic people with pure blood more jewish blooded than the jews of Israel and the only diffrence is these guys converted to other religions but never abandoned Palestine so why should the palestinans be punished for this Why does Israel complain,half is better than nothing, or Israel could give up all Jerusalem in exchange for some settlements. Be thankful for what you have!

I understand the israeli's for defending Jerusalem not be divided; its becuase never it has been as such; Jerusalem belong entirely to Arabas (Muslem & Christian) - Salah Al Din left that clear.

Israel doesn't want to be fair to Palestinians, so recognise the state of Palestinian, and then maybe Israel will want to negotiate.

We don't care if the PA gets the Christian part of Jerusalem.Palestine has loads of Christians anyways the man from Galilee was a palestinian.The Pals are a warm friendly people(that is if you dont make enemys of them)that are good to Christians.I would love to go to the palestinian Oktober fest I would maybe even get drunk(probably with only one or two pints lol)

Don't forget that Jerusalem was happily divided from 1948 to 1967, with an Israeli municipality in the West and an Arab municipality in the East. Despite never-ending Israeli complaints about what the Jordanian troops did in the East, the two civil authorities functioned perfectly well side by side. The Geneva Accord initiative - the Israeli-Palestinian thinktank which includes a lot of high-flying moderates - produced a whole set of maps and plans for how the division would work as unobtrusively as possible. Route 60 was the boundary for much of the border, but the Israeli part included the Jewish Quarter of the Old City and the Western Wall. It looks about what would actually be arrived at, if one leaves aside the corridors to and land-grab of Ma'ale Adumim, Pisgat Ze'ev etc., which are less palatable. They do not explain why they don't include the Armenian and Christian Quarters on the Israeli side, it would make sense and I can't see it being opposed by the Muslims.

The UN and not the EU will decide what happens to Jerusalem. The UNSC would have the final say, and the US has a Veto as do other founding members. The EU, lead by Sweden for the moment is bankrupt, and has lived the past 18 months on loans, know as "currency swap agreements." from the US Treasury. The US could ask for the money back at any time if they are not happy both fiscally and politically with the EU.

The only European leader to come out against a Palestinian State is a former employee of Mossad and now President of France. Who says European Jews first loyalty is to the country they reside in?

yes, they can live free, but not in Israel's capital.

The reason being, they wont deal w/ Hamas.

That is why EU and PA's call to return to 67 borders doesn't make sense. The PA keeps on insisting on the 67 borders when they know last time the old city was under arab control jordon troops burned down all the synogagues. PA needs to stop with this charade of 67 borders. Even if a PM Livni or Olmert gives control of jewish quarter and western wall to an arab international force israelis will not tolerate it. And what about the armenian quarter. The old city is in east jerusalem and must be shared. Palestinians get the muslim quarter and christian quarter. Parts of the old city outside the 67 line must be held by israel. Olmert wanted to give saudis a stake in control of the old city. Olmert came in because of a stroke and we will probably never see a weak PM like him again. So PA needs to be realistic and stop with the 67 charade. EU can't say East Jerusalem is all PA when jewish quarter in the old city and western wall in old city are in east jerusalem.

Those who want to divide Jerusalem are close to the end.

... we shall have no time to build israel ! The Swedish plan is a total nonsense ! In fact every plan for peace & a palestinian state will always fall on its face for the simple reason the palestinians are many things and can never agree between themselves. A palestine declared by Abbas will never be accepted by Hamas & many other faction of the palestinians. For many palestinians Abbas is nothing more that quisling, a traitor. To think that the palestinians will welcome a state declared by Abbas & his followers will be accepted by the Palestinians as a wishful thinking. It is not only Sweden ! It is most of the world, seeing the palestinians are on their last leg and trying to give them some life & support ! Another chapter in the very huge book of anti-semitism !

First of all you seem unable to differentiate between a state, a people and individuals of a people. If you google these terms you might find some clarity. Secondly, you seem to have a fondness for making broad and generalizing statements without anything at all backing them up. This makes you look foolish. Thirdly, you are spouting lies in an effort to incite animosity towards Sweden, you're not fooling anyone so kindly stop doing that. On another topic, the author of the article might like to note that Jerusalem already is divided. What the EU is trying to do is to point out that it still does not recognize Israel's unlawful attempt to annex land captured through war.

Its NOT a Swedish proposition. Its been suggested by several membercountries of the EU. Sweden just happens to hold the presidency. And up until it leaked to the press, even France stood behind it. In Britain they are even collecting names in the Parliament to make sure this EUROPEAN (not Swedish) proposition goes through. And, besides: No memberstate of the EU accepts eastern Jerusalem as a part of Israel. Never have. Its nothing new. So whats the fuzz?

Your coment is an outright lie, Jews were SAVED by the swedish government during the holocaust. Lieberman new this was coming, it is why he went to great lengths to attempt to discredit the Swedish Government over the Aftonbladet article, unfortunately for him no1 in the "outside" world takes lieberman seriously, no1 will meet him except putin, everyone sees him as a Racist. Bibi should have put him back in the Transport Ministery away from the International Crowd.

The trouble with Israel's attitude is that it believes it has a right to keep the Palestinians in captivity forever if it so chooses. It doesn't. This is not like situations where a group of people who are citizens of one country, want to leave that country and set up another. Israel has deliberately kept the Pals without Israeli citzenshup whil trying to take for Israel as much of their land as possible. This has been going on for OVER 40 YEARS and Iseael wouldn't mind it going on for another 40 years. That's why Israel always insists on just negotiations with the Pals because it knows it can't lose. The Pals are hostages. Either they agree to what Israel wants, (bantustan now with maybe 91 per cent of the WB in 10-20 years if Israel doesn't change its mind) or Israel keeps them prisoner for more long years. The EU needs to say to Israel that the game is over. Leave the West Bank and leave East Jerusalem.

to follow the dastardly accusation that israel harvests palestinian organs we now see swedish interference in the dispute with the palestinians. sweden would do anything to hurt the jewish state.all it betrays is its hatred.there is no gain but haters are unable to control themselves.

first the history.sweden has been unfriendly to jews for a thousand years.jews have not been allowed to enter the country till the early nineteenth century. swedish groups and not as far as i know the government made a list of all its jews to be handed over to the nazis should an invasion take place.

No problem, Christians will get evicted by Muslims as it happened in Nazareth and Beitlehem

how about if Israelis say, "OK, we'll divide Jerusalem-when you divide Stockholm with the arabs or Paris or London." End of discussion.

Swedish plan to divide Jerusalem. What have these Swedish blokes got to do with Jerusalem ? In 1948 it was Count Bernadotte,a Swede diplomat,who also wanted to see Jerusalem divided,& to return the refugees,(arab). Evidently, nothing much has changed vis a vis Sweden's interference with other people's affairs.

The EU's move is the only way towards peace. If the borders are not now declared Israel continues its annexing strategy without no desire to make peace and we have to watch this insane show for the next 60 years.

You just don't want it to work. But it does in lots of places, not only in the US, but internationally.

for israel to have much success changing its momentum... whether it's the swedish initiative or another, the europeans are starting to act on their impatience with israel's agenda of whittling away at palestinian territory.

The UN Security Council is not going to rescind Resolution 242, and the US is not going to force Israel to agree to a Palestinian capital in Jerusalem. So it's up to Israel and the Jewish people--in the words of Ben Gurion, what's important is what the Jews do, not what the Goyim say..

So, every other country in the world can have a capital that belongs completely to them, but Israel must for some reason share the most Jewish of cities with another state? The Palestinian Authority is headquartered in Ramallah: why can't that be the Palestinian capital?

Just thought I`d chuck that in. : )

This is the goal of the Palestinians, get as much as you can without negotiating. Maybe instead of trying to dictate terms -- something Europeans only seem willing to do as long as it is to the detriment of the Jewish state -- the EU should explain to the Palestinians that they must play by the same rules as the rest of the world. "You're in a weak negotiating position. Get the best deal you can and be thankful that you're not negotiating with your fellow arabs.."

Western and other foreign Christians (ie Christian non-Palestinians) always seem to forget that the Palestinians are not a religious group. Christian non-Palestinians always see the conflict as religious because thats how Israel & Hamas (both religious extremists) would like to paint it. But the Palestinians are a people of many religious traditions, including Muslims, Christians, Samaritans, and before Zionism infected their hearts, also Palestinian Jews. The Palestinian struggle is that of all Palestinians of all faiths who were and continue to b wronged by the crimes of Zionism. And people seem to forget also, that before Palestinians adopted those various religions, they were once also Jews anyway! They are linguistically and culturally Arabized Hebrews of many faiths. Like the Lebanese, Egyptians, Iraqis, Moroccans, they descend from the peoples of their respective lands from time immemorial. They're merely Arabized & in most cases also Islamized. Just thought I'd throw that in

Both proposals call for Jerusalem to be capital of both. So do you want the PA to have some control of all the city or full control over part of it.

..and what is it fails ?

How unfortunate.

Hey Jack free like in Gaza?

Make Jerusalem an international city governed by the UN and with both Israel and Palestine using it as a capitol. Neither can claim ownership nor engage in excesses while the UN guarantees law and order. Neither country needs to own it if they get to use it equally and without threat of violence.

Just thought I'd chuck that in. : )

The Palestinians never ever negotiate in good faith which is why their situation ever worsens. The Europeans should tell the Palestinians if they want a state they need to get their political and diplomatic act together pronto. Europe's problem is Jew hatred is part of its DNA.

for israel to have much success changing its momentum... whether it's the swedish initiative or another, the europeans are starting to act on their impatience with israel's agenda of whittling away at palestinian territory.

if they're zero, then why's bibi boy jumping out of his ass trying to block the swedish initiative?

It will never work, why would Israel want Moslem side of Jerusalem? considering they dont like each other it will be another humanitarian crisis.

Whether it's the birthplace of the Christian Jesus or the birthplace of Judaism, what difference does it really make who owns it? The Christians aren't crying because Bethlehem is only a symbol, not a false idol as we have foolishly made Jerusalem and the Western Wall.Jerusalem is big enough for several peoples, not just us.

Why should anyone listen to 'sweeden'? As if the EU and that paltry former viking landmass have any say in whether or not a Jewish city stays Jewish? When is Israel finally going to step up to the plate and TAKE BACK what is rightfully theirs, fight like patriotic lions and stop listening to the international community!?? The arabs (palestinians) are allowed to be nationalistic. The Americans can be nationalistic...even on other peoples land, but Israel? No! Can't be nationalists because we're afraid of 'offending' others. Its time for Israel to completely ignore the international community and become ferverent nationalists, fight for their land and once they've taken it back, they can be proud of themselves and treat others with the respect they deserve. Until this WAR is over, until every last speck of Jewish land is in Jewish hands, we CANNOT fall victim to irrationale PC, skewed liberalism and these FAKE human rights agencies. Israel is Israel: 3,000 years and counting!

Let them divide whatever they want on paper.Nobody can change the facts on the ground,unless they start a war...I doubt the swedes have the "beitzim"...

Let them divide whatever they want on paper.Nobody can change the facts on the ground,unless they start a war...I doubt the swedes have the "beitzim"...

EZEKIEL 38:4 And I will turn you back and put hooks into thy jaws,and I will bring thee forth with all thine army...EZEKIEL 39:4 Thou shalt fall upon the mountains of Israel,thou,and all thy bands, and the people that is with thee:I will give thee unto the ravenous birds of every sort,and to the beast of the fuild to be devoured EZE.39:21...and all the heathen shall see my judgment that I have executed,and my hand that I have laid upon them

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to Obama as he has with the settlement issue. Time to recognize the PM as a liberal and wearing the same suit as Sharon, Olmert and the rest of that rat pack. What right do the Swedes have in charting Jerusalem's future. They had best deal with the Muslim issues in their own country and shut up.

I'm wondering, does anyone know how likely it is that the majority of the EU will either support or reject the Swedish resolution?

Do the right thing EU! Give us Hope!

Slowly, but surely, Israel is losing. The world is waking up from its WWII guilt and is recognizing the Palestinian plight. Israel can no longer control the agenda. Information on its abuses is abundant and the world can no longer turn its head as if it did not exist. This is a first step and an important step to Palestinian independence from colonization.

No negotiations are necessary anymore. NO access to "PA" Oslo is abrogated. EU joins Arabs in attempts to annihilate Israel on accordance with their history with unpredictable consequence for everybody.

... what will happen when you put two fighting dogs in the same cage. Why are they doing this? I thought a peaceful resolution was their desire.

With solutions like this, who needs problems? We can clearly see why Europe has led the world from one disaster to the next: war after war after colonization, rapacious plunder of the world's resources, and now trying to implement a divided ciy policy. If it didn't work for Berlin or Srebeniza or any other city, why would it work in Jerusalem?