Netanyahu demands talks focus on security issues before borders

This is such twaddle but no surprise---Abbas will be out the door after the first meeting. How do you discuss security based on virtual borders. Typical Zionist obfuscation --just like Abbas said. Wont work---borders first---security will follow.

sounds like a pre condition to me

Right now if Bibi is going to hold his coalition together he cannot start making any serious concessions and it has to look like he is not neglecting Israels security. Abbas wants to jump straight in and talk final border, Jersualsm and refugees. Rush to that stage Bibi will not be able to do any deals if he is going to survive. Like every other politician in the WORLD Bibi is going to put his own political survival first. Abbas the iligitimate president who was supposed to have held elections in January 2009 but canceled them decided he was allowed to stay on another year now he is heading towards 2 years. He wants a deal before he is forced to hold an election and probably finds himself out of a job. He also knows that he can pull Obamas strings all he needs to do is throw a tantrum and Obama will come rushing to his defense. So avoid giving Abbas an opportunity to throw a tantrum, avoid creating Bibis coalition to break down that means a new election and nobody can predict the result so don't assume he will be replaced by Livni and she will have a 100% leftist coalition. So best to think about stability first and create a momentum with less troublesome issues and if Obama is smart he will back that. Before you condemn Bibis condition lets wait and see what happens it might actually yield results and if it does then they move to more complicated issues.

You can get almost everything you want. Obama is very weak too. The Congress totally controlled is squeezing him. Wonderful days ahead......... BUT if .............

What Bibi demand is not a precondition? He allways said no preconditions.

Your territory you fix it. UN ? UNIFIL that stands next to Arabs while they open fire into Israel? Or lies as after they record Lebanese kidnapping Israelis in UN marked vehicles? Israel does not get peace neither do you? No country accepts" peace" that allows firing into their country!

Your territory you fix it. UN ? UNIFIL that stands next to Arabs while they open fire into Israel? Or lies as after they record Lebanese kidnapping Israelis in UN marked vehicles? Israel does not get peace neither do you? No country accepts" peace" that allows firing into their country!

Netanyahu Demands! With no Americans in the room, we'll see if Abbas accommodates him. If not, will he throw a hissy-fit? Will he fall on the floor and pound and wet his pants? Of course, Abbas may want to talk about freedom from settler violence and other security issues, too, along with the security of Palestine's water sources.

does this make sense?

stalling the peace process is a zionist trademark, netanyahu a great adocate of it. let s assume he gets those socalled guarantees (for pete's sake, HOW!) then he will probably ask for guarantees no nukes will get to New York, in order to protect the jews over there..

" The doctrine of Islam commands hatred and violence against non-muslims, Sharia & Jihad are pillars of Islam. Al Quaeda are carrying out authentic Islam.Non- muslims are barred from entering Mecca and no Churches or Synagogues are allowed there.The ' infidels' ( non-muslims) are deemed unfit to touch the ground. This is real Islam pure and simple. Islam is the problem and not Israel

Haven't we heard this song before ... Please, bobo, do the rest of us a big favor and go back home .... to Poland ... where you belong with your ancestors and you may take the rest of your Zionist cattel with you. May be only then the world can have a lasting peace.

Bluffing...forever. They want their own peace. Israeli peace and USA peace means complete surrender to their conditions. The palestinian puppets s are easily movable on their chess table, but the majority of palestinian people are 100% sure that the israeli fundamentalists are working hard to take over all the historic palestine and expel all Pal.arabs to the neighbouring countries. Their peace will never succeed . Only a just peace can insure jewish existence in our part of this world.

So, Israel demands no pre-conditions for negotiations and then demands pre-conditions that the focus will be on security. There is a well known word for that in Hebrew...Khoutspa (rude).

preconditions to me. The same one that has plagued the talks for thirty years. "You quit fighting for your self determination and then we will negotiate your self determination". Trouble is, if you quite fighting you never will get self determination. Power will concede nothing without a demand that is backed up by action.

What a total hypocrite! BB first says negotiations without preconditions, and now he puts his own preconditions even before the talks start! The outcome is known with this man leading Israel.

I thought Bibi did not want to start with the 1967 borders as the basis of the discussion? If so, then it is not yet known whether Tel Aviv will end up being part of Palestine or part of Israel.

Is Netanyahu then saying he'll accept missiles in locales other than Tel Aviv?!

The US and other UNSC members are handling Israel with kid gloves, in case the little red heifer kicks the sh*te out of the china shop if it doesn't get it's way.

hamas has a right to be involved. they represent a good portion of the people

israel or /and the U.S must train and arm the P.A to deal with internal threats

It is important in this context to emphasize, 242 does not anticipate Israel withdrawing its armed forces from all the territories nor does it expect the nation-state of the Jewish people, Israel, to do so to the 1949 armistice (Green) line since those lines are not even mentioned in 242.

Can't understand this meeting as Hamas isn't in the picture. I feel it is a ploy of Obama to get Jewish votes in his elections. Nothing more.

Here we go again. But I have to fault the U.S. for (once again) not calling out Israel out on this charade. The tail continues to wag the dog.

Here we go again making impossible demands. The PA only control the West Bank so they can be reasonably expected to do what can be done to prevent missile attacks against Israel -from the the West Bank. Failing that they can prosecute the guilty parties and make reparations. HOWEVER, they have no control over what happens in the Gaza Strip. There's nothing they can do to stop missile firings from there. So if the present Israeli government follows in the footsteps of previous ones, they will demand a guarantee that no missiles will be fired on Israel and use that as a pretext to stall the negotiations forever, maintaining the Palestinians don't really wnat peace because the West Bank leadership can't control Hamas. Then can approve more construction in the best areas of the West Bank so that they'll need to swapped for worthless land.

There is no correlation between the presence of IDF troops and lack of missiles or rockets. In fact, every time Israel has re-invaded Lebanon or Gaza, the rockets and missiles have increased. Security is a Two-way street. Netanyahu has to come to realize this. The Palestinians are going to want guarantees of non-invasion, particular by Israeli settlers. In the West bank, there has been little evidence that the IDF is up to the task. Security is also a sovereignty issue. Israel will also have to accept that Palestinians have a right to control their own borders and population and taxes and immigration and the right to choose their own government without interference. All of these issues are tied to where the borders are and where Israeli soldiers will be prohibited from operating or even appearing with weapons or in groups. The Palestinians may have to assure that it takes back control of Gaza. But Israel has a huge way to go towards providing security guarantees to the Palestinians, too. Are the Israeli governments up to it, both the civilian and IDF?

Until borders are established there cannot be security. Need the borders to know what you are securing.

And how does Netanyahu propose to accept such "assurances"? Abbas, US , Quartet and Arabs promises ?

In my opinion, there will be no security until the Palestinians are able to practice their legitimate rights: Independent state with E. Jerusalem its capital or a binational state with full rights for all; implementation of U.N. General Assembly Resolution 194 which stipulates that the refugees must return to their homes and to the property from which they were expelled, and in addition must be compensated. [It does not say that] return and compensation [are mutually exclusive]. For any other solution to be legitimate or to warrant security, it must be set to vote on for approval by Palestinians, especially those outside Palestine.

These negotiations are doomed to failure for many reasons some of which are: 1- Abbas term has expired and legaly has no mandate to sign an agreement. 2-All his preconditions were rebuffed because the Obama administration could not bring any pressure on Israel, without this pressure Israel has no incentive to make peace. 3- The Palestinian refugees are not represented. 4- Untill the US and Europe act as fair arbitrator or the Palestinians develop some kind of deterent Israel have no incentive to compromise.

I don't see why it would be different this time.

How do you expect when you go to some one else home land and start building ....

So much for fairness.

Prime Minister Zayd ar-Rifa'i told an interviewer in 1975: Jordan is Palestine. They have never been ruled as two separate states except during the British Mandate. Before 1918 the two banks of the Jordan River were a single state. When they returned to being a single state after 1948, it was a matter of building on the earlier unity. Their families are one, as are their welfare, affiliation, and culture. King al-Husayn asserted again in 1981 that "Jordan is Palestine and Palestine is Jordan."

Why is the world trying to force Arabs to live under a Hamas or Fatah dictatorship? Israel Arabs get hysterical when Lieberman suggested that they live under the PA rulers. They want Israel! The Arabs of Jerusalem are flocking to the Jewish city afraid that the PA will grab them one day... Just because the Nobel laureates Rabin and Peres liberated Arafat from Tunisia, it does not mean that the Arabs of the former west bank of the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan should be imprisoned under Hamas or Fatah. The economy is booming the housing is spectacular and the quartet wants to end the good times...so nasty!

thinking that people are moron and he is the only one who is capable of thinking. It just makes the things more difficult.

In an Israel long ago, 'Security' would have been peaceful relations with all upon the borders of Israel. Even three decades ago, 'Security' would have been defined as an Israel free from external attack. Now, 'Security' is defined as an Israel with no Arabs within it's borders. And it's borders are defined as anything within 1,000 km that Israelis don't want.

Most of this peace pageant is just window dressing. The US, the Arab League, even the Euros just want to put on a peace show and move on - they have bigger fish to fry, particularly the Sunni Arab countries like Egypt and Saudi Arabia - the Palestinian issue is taking a back seat to Iran - the Arabs need to line up a coalition to deal with Iran Nuclear Program - Palestine is a sideshow

..sabotage.

..... that Netanyahu will present an ambit claim whereby Israel annexes everything within qassam range of Tel Aviv? Or would that be everything within Katyusha range of Tel Aviv? Heck, why not claim that Israel has a right to annex all territory within Scud missile range of Tel Aviv, coz that will not only give him all of "Judea and Samaria" but will give him big chunks o' Iraq as well.....

Could this be as "the one who laughs last laughs best?"

The first negotiation issue should NOT be Security ! All Abas can-do is make security promises. The negotiation should start about permanent borders. The reality being that this will be a dead end - since Abas insists that Israel must return to pre-June.1967 borders.

It means Israel is responsible for security, that's the only guarantee they trust. Abbas can't even guarantee his own security, as he showed in gaza.

This is a joke. Just another round of talks that ensure less and less for the Palestinians. How serious can Israel be about peace when they raze villages, cleanse Jerusalem from the Arabs, build a wall on Palestinian territories, enforce settler savage values as they terrorize Palestinians with military watching And use the American stick to pound Arab sensibilities.

Another trick complication to waste time. No one should bother going.

and no right to invite foreign military. No other guarantees needed.

This looks like it is going to be another waste of time. Unless, of course, the Americans choose to finally intervene and set the terms for a settlement. The current Israeli government will offer nothing that comes close to what the Palestinians can accept. The Palestinians have already decided it is too late for a Palestinian state and that the better option is a bi-national state (eventually becoming a Palestinian state). If Obama sits on the sidelines nothing will happen. From an Israeli perspective the good news would be for Obama to pressure Natenyahu into making a generous offer to the Palestinians which they can accept. At least this will preserve Israel as a Jewish state. Natenyahu is too stupid to see this and Obama probably doesn't care.

Justice and reconcilement must the objective. With that should come an effort by Israel to make Palestine viable. Contiguous borders, a prosperous economy, strengthened institutions amd freedom from security threats from Jewish settlers and the IDF are critical elements. Palestine cannot remain a multitude of Arab ghettos like Gaza intersected by Jewish settlements and exclusive Israeli highways patrolled by the IDF. Continued security threats from settlers and the IDF will foment reactions that will be characterized as terrorism. It is time to skip the photo opportunities and create something that will work.

When your talking to faction that isn't the true PA, your kidding yourself, what are you gonna ask of the PA to destroy Hamas and then continue to build settlements and buldoze Pals homes. This person is a total clown, if Abbas thinks he can cling to power he is SURELY WRONG.

otherwise how do we know where to put police and guarrds and so on

"the second i appease my right-wing voters, i will do everything in my power to leave the palestinians without a state."

Everyone knows this round of talks will lead to nothing. This is simply a face saving exercise for Obama.

At least from reports in the US, it appears that the scheduled meeting is favoring Netanyahu's agenda, which, ultimately, I believe, will be to kill any chance for peace. Why compromise for peace when you get more from continued occupation and continued settlement building and there is no power willing to stop you? But time will tell. There are forces afoot that want this status quo to end.

I wonder what the point is, let me guess what happens now, Netanyahu makes proposals that everyone knows are never going to fly like Israeli control over Palestinian borders/airspace contiuned occupation of the Jordan Valley. Then he never has to discuss borders as the talks will become stuck before they reach that stage. That's assuming they don't fail after a couple of weeks due to settlement building. Sick to death of Israel, but delaying tactics only delay, they don't postpone.

What's at the heart of the Middle East problem is that Arabs lost property and were never compensated for it. You know what you get when you take someone's property for no money? 60 years of war, that's what. The Germans and the UN created this problem when the UN encouraged homeless, persecuted, displaced Jews to move to the region, while at the same time, the UN established a state for them. This is a lot like the Doctrine of Eminent Domain. They took property, but the problem is that they never paid for it. The UN needs to establish a Middle East Compensation Commission where claimants can come; present claims, and get justly compensated for their losses in exchange for a Release of Claims.

Let me get this straight, settlements are to continue to expand on Palestinian territories and upcoming talks will only deal with Israel's "security issues"? It sounds to me like a perfect recipe for more war. What Netanyahoo is proposing is what prior Israeli leaders have tried to pull - from Rabin on to Netanyahoo. - they want the PA to continue to operate as a "private security force" for the settlement enterprise. It's laughable. Security issues should not even be discussed AT ALL. The creation of a Palestinian state should be the only thing on the agenda. If such a state would turn around and launch "missiles on Tel-Aviv", then I can assure you Israel would know how to respond. In that scenario, Israel would be justified to drop Nagasaki on them but until that day happens, Israel has no right in the slightest to be making any demands while it continues with the occupation, the siege on Gaza and settlement expansion.

these security conditions Netanyahu requires, will also be directed towards the security of Palestinians which they have been lacking for way too long.

How can one discuss 'security' when there is no knowledge of what is to be secured. The issue. THE ISSUE is where will the Palestinians live. What portion of the Occupied Territories will be allowed the Palestinians and how large Judea and Samaria will be. The UN Palestinie partition plan was doomed, if for no other reason, than the convoluted and balkanized borders and areas of the two 'states'. The Security situation will be quite different if Palestine is to be nothing but a few enclaves, or a number of bantustans rather than a contiguous nation composing most of the Occupied Territories.

These people involved are delusional!! It's a total waste of my tax money to be paying their salaries and their travel expenses.. They can't possibly be thinking. It absolutely makes NO SENSE.

Unless Israel bombs Beirut

Unless Israel bombs Beirut

How can security arrangements be discussed if we don't know where the border is? The short answer for Netanyahu is that there are no guarantees. There can be no guarantees. Next topic?