MESS Report / Israel threatens PA: 'fight violence or we will'

You have a point, but of course that won't happen in this world, only in a perfect world, and it is not a perfect world only the best we have. But, we can try to make it better and hope for the best.

Yes, it is high time to end the violence. Those who practice it on all sides will only beget more violence. What sane people would want to live that way?

I thinks its about time for all peace seeking Israelis to take a stand and pressure their government to end the occupation now. This is the best time to make peace. you have a technocratic Palestinian government, whom unlike its predecessors is genuinely interested in sustainable development, and that includes a permanent peace the is built on mutual respect. I just hope that people can accept each others differences, and treat one another with humanity and respect, since at the end of the day we all are humans, and we share this land, in sickness and in health, for bettor or worst, until death does us part.

THIS www.acpr.org.il/English-NATIV/02-issue/grief-2.htm IS NON-SENSE Neither the Balfour Declaration or the two British White papers or the British Mandate mention a separate Jewish State. In FACT the opposite. A Jewish homeland IN PALESTINE. http://tinyurl.com/y8ewves/sovereignty-state-non-state-entity/#Mandate //Article 7 The Administration of Palestine shall be responsible for enacting a nationality law. There shall be included in this law provisions framed so as to facilitate the acquisition of Palestinian citizenship by Jews who take up their permanent residence in Palestine. //

I thought Israel still controlled W.Jerusalem but I'm not sure of the total population breakdown during that time period. With regards to the Palestinians, most people who have read the history books know they were a recent invention for political purposes and to use a tool against Israel. You have a great point about legal claims for the Palestinians. But because it is a long...and boring for most people...topic I've included a legal brief to read at your leisure that outlines legally why the Palestinians have NO legal claim whatsoever to any part of Israel. See Here: http://www.acpr.org.il/English-NATIV/02-issue/grief-2.htm

"I don`t think Israel has any claims on Jordan, though it is part of Palestine." Not since 1946. Only the folk who lived in the area that became TransJodan had a right to Jordanian citizenship in 1946 . What was left of the non-state entity of Palestine was still called PALESTINE. It's citizens, Jews and non-Jews alike, were Palestinians until Israel was carved off in 1948. What remained of the non-state entity of Palestine, including the West Bank and Jerusalem, were still called Palestine. It belongs to the Palestinians. http://wp.me/pDB7k-il

"Your crazy.. Why should Israel give up what is theirs? " Right. They shouldn't. It's what ISN'T theirs they should give up trying to keep. "I say to Israel listen to no one and do what it takes to protect and keep your land..God gave it to Israel and said never to divide the land..I pray for Israel each day and ask Gods protection on them" Pray much during the Holocaust did you? Go/-d, you me and every other Jew on the planet were sold out when the Jewish People's Council accepted & Declared Sovereignty over the boundaries outlined in UNGA res 181, informing the world of it. http://wp.me/PDB7k-Y#the-big-lie Oh and no, there is no article in res 181 demanding both parties co-sign. Independence is unilateral. So save your ire for those who shafted us of a homeland in all of Palestine, now we're limited only to Israeli Sovereign territory because they demanded a separate state.

I don't think Israel has any claims on Jordan, though it is part of Palestine.

Your crazy.. Why should Israel give up what is theirs? They should protect their own as they are the only ones that will....As for peace talks they cannot trust them to come through as they never have .I say to Israel listen to no one and do what it takes to protect and keep your land..God gave it to Israel and said never to divide the land..I pray for Israel each day and ask Gods protection on them

The history of the first Intifada shows that Arab demonstrations and rock throwing which caused few serious injuries, were met with Israel's reponse with 'rubber' a.k.a steel bullets and live fire which killed many. Your notion that Palestinian demonstrations might evolve into resumed bombing demonstrates the weakness of your argument, for you know very well that at the moment the Palestinian demonstrations are in the main non-violent. The truth is Israel does not want them to demonstrate at all, under any circumstances.

then the jews who gained land through world declaration, through colonial mandate, through purchase, and through wars of annihilation (propagated by the arab world and arab pals against israel), are that much more entitled to the land under circumstances. The arabs came centuries after the fact to claim what was never originally theirs. They did so by conquest, and when they lost by getting a taste of their own medicine (after attempting through hatred and jealousy to destroy the jews even well before israel existed and after), they accept no responsibility for their key role in the outcome and the consequences. That is the real travesty.

Where to begin.... First, yes there was significant territory originally conquered by the hebrews. There was also significant territory in that era which was as yet unsettled. The jews were the first of the peoples you mentioned to create an actual civilization there by definition. Next, of the peoples you mentioned, the only ones who have inhabited the area continuously both in large numbers and at times in small numbers are the jews The jews are also the only civilization which originally bore claim to the land which remain to this day. While arab palestinians have tried to establish links, there has been no evidence to link them to any of the ancient peoples you mention. Neither genetic studies nnor anthropological or historical studies suppport such a claim In fact, they came along much much later by virtue of their own arab lineages and did conquer, centuries after the jews had settled that land and lived their for centuries. Lastly, if your principle of conquest is true

If you want your freedom Palestine, win it through peaceful resistance. If Israel fires on peaceful protests, they will have no excuse that they are fighting "terrorism". No Palestinian cheap labor to build settlements anymore and no buying settlement products. Without the cheap labor, living in a settlement will be much more expensive.

Abbas and Fatah are already doing Israel's dirty work as collaborators.

It can only become worse

ARAB landlords sold land to the Jewish National Fund.Arab leaders told Muslim population to leave Israel so the Jews will pushed into the sea. Arab leaders sent their people into wars again and again only to lose more land. Israel returned Gaza only to have rockets land in Israel. So please tell me Ari what occupation. Wonder if this is going to get printed in the free press

You are dead wrong.The Arabs will not stop attacking Israel.They did so long before the so-called "occupation".Israel fights the 10th century Muslim mentality.It might take centuries or a major catastrophe to change the Arab mindset.

" so a protest is "violence", the checkpoints and bulldozers are??" me: "Not trying to harm people the way protesters throwing rocks at civilians are." Ahmed: "Forgetting that checkpoints are routinely used to humiliate and beat Palestinians. Bulldozers to squash them." The checkpoints were put in place after wave upon wave of suicide bombings. The bulldozers are used to curb terror attacks, not to attack innocent people. Don't understand the obvious differences? What are the rocks being thrown at people supposed to do other than harm innocents?

And what has that done for the Palestinians? Nothing. Not that they stand to benefit from violence. I hope cooler heads win out, but every action of the Netanyahu government, mayor of Jerusalem, the Settlers and some in the IDF seems calculated to incite another infitada. One which conveniently would justify their actions. It would be best if cooler heads and decent motivations ruled on BOTH sides.

our Home is as said, "Our Home and Native land" well I guess it was "our Native('s) Land" until the british and French conquered it. Does that make it ours and therefore according to your post, it is unclear what your views are regarding how aboriginals were treated in Canada. Furthermore your claim that since Ancient Israelites were conquerors then Arabs have right to conquer ancient Israelites, etc... you are posting as Rousseau rights the Right of the Strongest, but you are asserting contrary to Rousseau that there is a right of the strongest, in which case what's the argument, history has shown the strongest won? But on your point, wouldn't from a modern legal perspective the claim to the land from the Israelites wouldn't flow to the Arabs, the conquerors of the Romans who conquered the Israelites, but to the 7 tribes of Cannaan who as the Torah notes, were GENOCIDED, therefore, in theory at least, there is no one to take up the claim of the 7 tribes of Cannaan.

... You may say that Palestinians didn't attack Israel in 1967, or didn't break the Armstice by nationalizing water ways, removing peacekeeping troops, militarizing and fortifying military positions above what they were at times of Armstice. But yet, Palestinians let Arabs speak for them in 1947-9 Arab states petitioned UN for UNRWA. So where is the divide? and what are the parameters of this divide? Such that, Arab belligerence in 1967 is not Palestinian, but yet Palestinians agreed to call themselves, be represented by and sided with, THE ARAB states.

"Occupation requires the co-operation of those occupied. Don`t give it..." I think you are mistaken on many things, notably, permission. But let's examine this. In your view then, if Israel was to complete a full withdrawal to 1967 borders, not including jerusalem as it annexed it and USA CONGRESS AGREED, but even for this argument lets say EJ was in there too. What happens if Israel was attacked again by palestinians, what is your view for legitimate recourse? especially if it was like it is here, with the involvement of the PA, THE STATE ACTORS? According to GCIV israel would have right to Occupy the lands. So according to your argument, should Israel still be forced to pay the "economic and political costs of occupying people`s land that does not belong to them" or is SECURITY OF THEIR CITIZENS VALID ENOUGH And if that is the case, how does today differ? TBC....

Great Point but you forgot something Mark, for 19 years there were little to no jews in Jerusalem, and A holy sites that existed and was generally respected until those 19 years, was used as a garbage dump. Hmm, whatelse, oh yes the Jordanians, who in past represented the Palestinians, without the Palestinians rising up against them, expelled the Jewish Residents and banned anybody from crossing over to East Jerusalem, where eventually, after 19+ years, the Jordanians would rescind their claim. How it follows that it is now Palestinian is beyond me, and well I'd love to read the international law, the exact letters of the law that decrees this, seeing as how THERE WAS NEVER A PALESTINIAN STATE THERE, and majority of INTL laws on issues like this are between STATES, and the closest Palestinian state that ever existed, WAS REJECTED AND BOYCOTTED BY PALESTINIANS... well I think it will be interesting farce to read.

Israeli settlement policies in East Jerusalem are not about the "Judaization of Jerusalem---" but rather the RE-Judaziation of it. Judea for for Judeans!!!

You are thinking of the Borg. The Klingons never said that.

" so a protest is "violence", the checkpoints and bulldozers are??" "Not trying to harm people the way protesters throwing rocks at civilians are." Forgetting that checkpoints are routinely used to humiliate and beat Palestinians. Bulldozers to squash them.

Your means to fit the ends are incorrect the right to protest doesn't include the right to throw rocks on civilians the right to resist occupaction also does not cover that if we play chicken or egg you will lose to as terrorist stacks against israel predate settlers

to urge the PA to uphold one of its few undertakings in the Oslo accords that brought it into being? If we asked them to safeguard the Jewish shrines in Nablus and Jericho, as they undertook to do, would that be a "threat" too?

Israelis are not 100%pure in their handling the peace process, but, to get out from thre west bank just like Gaza, FORGET IT. the next day all the terrorists will cause problems to Israel. I think the Palestinians want to keep the status quo in order to keep their dictatorship ways as in gaza. beisdes, how can you deal with one factiuon (Abbas) when hamas hates his guts and will not abide by any decision. first ALL pals must to be united and with only one voice, then they can demand a deal

Under Netanyahu and Lieberman, Israel doesn't try to charm or persuade. It threatens. And if that doesn't work it threatens some more. And if that doesn't work it tries to persuade America to step in and threaten as well.

During the top years of occupation in the early 1980', palestinians enjoyed of prosperity and education. Their life in comparision to the days of Jordanian rule was considerable improved with israel occupation. Palestinians worked in Israel; there were no check points and no walls of separation. The worstening of living conditions started with the first intifada and terrorism. During the peace process things got even worst because of Hammas sabbotage actions. If there is somebody to blame for bad "living conditions" in the territorioes, for the separation wall, and for check points is Hammas.

Disband...and welcome Israel back in with open arms to administer the territories.... If Israel continues to play games, pandering to unrealistic dreams of expansion, then Israel should be forced to do the full expensive occupation of Palestinian population centers...and eventually welcome the consequent move towards the ONE STATE SOLUTION.

Israel is doing all it can to make Jerusalem an exclusively Jewish city. They do this by making live unbearable for Muslims and Christians. It is not anti-semetic to state obvious facts. Stop using the anti-semetic card, the term has been watered down enough already.

What hypocrits !

"A terrorist alwyas will have a pretext for terror." Which is why a few hundred children were slaughtered in Gaza and the "most moral army" had every excuse in the world

I just hope that the Jews would have those rights in Muslim countries,or for that matter the Christians,or any other minorities.

The PA wants to talk peace while waging war. Israel is right to make it clear that such a criminal strategy will not work.

"`improved` from what to what?" You sure are uninformed. "Their territory diminished." Name any point in history in which this was their undisputed territory, Jew-free, clown.

What's funny about this remark is Jerusalem has been a majority Jewish city for at least the last couple of hundred years. A census taken in 1844 under the Ottoman Empire...before this area was mired in the politics of today...There were approximately 7500 Jewish residents and 5500 Arab residents. That's right! The Jewish people have been the majority population in Jerusalem for a long time. So when I hear people say the "Judaization" of Jerusalem it's offensive and antisemitic. The implication is the Jews are stealing a town(Jerusalem) from the Arabs, when in fact they have lived there for over 3000 years and at least since 1844 have been the majority population in Jerusalem.

"After 1967, Palestinian living standards improved under Israel." 'improved' from what to what? From a lot having SFA, to a few having a little more than SFA? Their territory diminished. There were more refugees crammed into a smaller area. Their chances for Sovereign independence diminished. Their rights diminished in the "territories occupied". They saw illegal settlers being encouraged by the Israeli Government. They say illegal annexation by the occupier. They saw illegal civilian infrastructure being built for Jewish only Israeli settlers, they saw illegitimate Israeli Civil Law being instituted in "territories occupied". They saw illegal settlers in Gaza, illegally using their land, illegally using their water, cashing in on their cheap labour, while spiriting the produce and profits into Jewish Israeli pockets. The majority of Palestinian were not suicide bombers, did not lift a finger. A TINY minority decided they'd had enough. BOOM.

Were Israel to retreat to the 1948 UN Partition boundaries, who here can honestly assure me that Israel would then be left in peace as a Jewish state?

Occupation requires the co-operation of those occupied. Don't give it. Israel wants to occupy the West Bank, then Israel should pay the economic and political costs of occupying people's land that does not belong to them.

Prior to 1967 the excuses for violence and terror was occupation.Prior to 1948 the excuses for violence was violence and terror,and when the Palestinians will have their state(and they should have it)the excuses for terror will still be occupation.A terrorist alwyas will have a pretext for terror.

Will I then have as much claim to your house as you have?

"Actually the Israeli grinding down of the Palestinians by destroying their way of life and lowering their living standards in the hope of making them leave is just as much violence as throwing stones, and probably a good deal more destructive." After 1967, Palestinian living standards improved under Israel. It is when they launched a very nasty terror war against Israel that their living standards were lowered, halfwit. Was it in the hope of making them leave? Or was it more in the hope of getting them to stop attacking Israelis?

Actually the Israeli grinding down of the Palestinians by destroying their way of life and lowering their living standards in the hope of making them leave is just as much violence as throwing stones, and probably a good deal more destructive.

Easy solution: let all illegal settlers move back to Israel, bring Israeli soldiers back home and the protests and boycott will cease. Plus Israel's image in the world will begin to recover.

As long as protests are peaceful, such as those in Biilin or Sheikh Jarrah, or the boycott movement, Israel has no right to oppose them. Using democratic means is perfeclty legitimate.

" so a protest is "violence", the checkpoints and bulldozers are?? Not trying to harm people the way protesters throwing rocks at civilians are.

this is becoming a joke

"The iron fist that the IDF has been using against all Palestinians since over 30 years, have proved nothing but much abhorrence and hatred between the Israelis and Palestinians" Do you really believe that this (the IDF's iron fist) is what is causing and perpetuating the hatred?

"It was convenient for Israel to have suicide bombing which served its propganda machine well. Now that demonstrations, many heated and raucus, but non-violent " When people are hurt, there's usually violence. Do you believe the police who have been hurt were hurt by non-violence? Do you believe the people who have been hit with rocks were injured by non-violence? What will it take for you to realize that the Palestinians are perfectly capable of escalating violence? More suicide bombings? Then you'll justify those as well... by blubbering some nonsense about Israel asking for it, right? Where you hit in the head by some aaa'heated and raucus, but non-violent" rock?

It was convenient for Israel to have suicide bombing which served its propganda machine well. Now that demonstrations, many heated and raucus, but non-violent ,take place it is not in Israel's best interests. On the contrary, these demonstrations serve the Palestinian cause nicely and the shifting world sympathies are proff if any is needed. Israeli threats to resort to violent response will only serve the palestinians better. It is an endgame for the occupation.

another bogus claim my friends. The raids are very much alive and kicking. An avarage of 10 people is arrested daily. Not just terrorists.....there is also a crackdown on the Palestinian anti-wall movement. Stop kidding yourself.

for palestinians , Hamas, and Hezbollah asking just how much more Israel land do you require before you will give genuine absolute peace.

'Resistance is futile' Notice how you never hear Israel acknowledge ANY form of resistance. A boycott is essentially non-violent. Israel calls it incitement. The demonstrations against the wall are completely legitimate and largely non-violent. Yet the participants get the terroreist-treatment. And now Israel tries to bully the PA in quelling it all..... Yet Israel has no qualms at declaring itself the one and only Middle-Eastern democracy! Shameful. That's what it is!

Peace? looks more like the plan was for a better position to attack Israel.

So when protesters are peaceful and are still thrown in jail and beaten what's Israel's excuse then? Oh, right, I forgot......There is never a peaceful Palestinian protest because Israel says there is not.

are you one of those haredi who hate israel? but you live off our dime? if you are.... get a job and be productive instead of complaining and being a religious leach

You think its funny? look at your history first before your arrogance takes over you. The Jewish people had been slapped around for almost all of their history. I am sure that was not funny for you and many of us too, however if your arrogance will continue then be prepared to be on the receiving end too. He Who lives by the sword will die by the sword.

Am i missing something or does the fact that "israel" is happy to "reduce" arrests if PA cooperates suggest that those arrests are false in the first place? There's no denying that israel will exert its full force in order to arrest or preferably kill anybody who is a threat. so if they can afford to simply "reduce" arrests, what does this say about the danger those people pose? theres very rarely articles about it, but everyday, the morning headlines streaming across the top of the page are "11 palestinians arrested in overnight raids, 6 palestinans arrested in overnight raids, 13 palestinians arrested.." this is a DAILY event. Some of those people are freed. some of them are held for onths wwithout trial and without explanations. Some of them are never seen again. This is a DAILY event against civilians. And does anybody remember the 1.5million starving, fuel-less, power-less, water-lass, contrete-less, homeless palestinians in gaza, who fell victim to the 2006 war, ALL in

Peaceful protest organised and sponsored by the PA - with sling-shots and stones - Yeah right. Demand that Israel tear down the barrier - that stands between it and a wave of suicide bombers and which has proven to be 99.99% effective - Hahaha. What about woman and gay rights in the current PA state (wherever it is)? Too boring - too basic??

When Arafat and Co. left Bayrout on chip to Tunis exile a milstone in Palestinian national struggle to independence and self determination was set. Two paths were offered to Palestinians: either join the US and israel's camp or face the consequences. Arafat, albeit manouvering and smarting choose to obey and join. Others like Hamas,jihad etc. continued the struggle. No national liberation ever faced that dilema. Now the PLO with corrupt and self serving members became an Israeli appendex for a variety of security purposes. Arabs after Kuwait liberation became enlisted in the US-Israel camp. Israel apparently had it all, except that the people are convined of their rights and final victories despite all odds. Israel too knows that without these unntural supports, from their supposed enemies, it is doomed.

letting snakes lose in a rabbit pen

the Israeli actions are the cause of the puplic protest and the PA is becoming a tool of the Israelis. It is time for the PA to disolve itself as it has proven in its present form to be a hendrence to a public uprising to stop the continued Israeli provocations.

I think you should recognize by now that these protests are not done in Israel but inside the PA territories and the Palestinians have the right to protest against Israel as long as occupation is still going on. The iron fist that the IDF has been using against all Palestinians since over 30 years, have proved nothing but much abhorrence and hatred between the Israelis and Palestinians; even abroad. In simple words; when your land / property is taken by force and you cannot obtain it back through the shady Israeli legal system, the least you will do is to protest.

I realize the Palisteinians and so other Arabs who think the British Irish Ocupation Authority gave any power to Israel like it did the Arabs needs their own heads examined you think they would do that you are sadly totaly mistaken we speak from our own sincerity no not from powers with the ocupation forces of pre 1948 Israel that granted the Arabs so much and so hope the Arabs understand that we speak from a position of weakness asking you to be understanding if you have no mutual area compasion for a fellow area middle east people that certainly causes differences hope you realize what I mean RIGHT ??? Thank You... M. S.

Take your medication and go back to bed.

Ralph you somehow call the Jews indigenous as if they sprouted up out of the ground? You clearly do not know your own history. Jews CONQUERED the land by wiping out the Canaanites, Hittites, Philistines, and others. You are conquerors just like others who came after and conquered you. There is no difference between you. The Arabs have just as much right to the land as you claim.

Israel prefers Hamas rockets to popular protests because the popular protests make it difficult for Israel to claim to be the "victims" in the eyes of the World. The PA has no control over the efforts of the people of Bil'in and Nil'in...it is the voice of the Palestinian people who are very frustrated with false promises and no results from 20 years of "peace" negotiations. I hope these popular protests continue and grow in number. They are the most effective tool to end the Israeli occupation.

I would understand, of course, a desire that the PA prevent protests from becoming violent, from becoming riots, but to ask them to crush protests is tantamount to Israel telling the PA to take from the Palestinians the few rights they have... as if the PA -- or HAMAS for that matter -- isn't already quite adept and taking rights away from the people they ostensibly protect and/or represent.

Leave for the east bank (Jordan) and stop the occupation.

In part due to the Oslo agreement and mentality and in part due to the corrupt American puppet called Mahmood Abbas and the gang around him who are not leading a people to liberation but simply doing Israel's dirty work in the west Bank and Gaza. Not only has this gang adopted a surrealistic and absurdly "pacifistic" view to all resistance to the occupation but has also become completely dependent on the Israeli "graces" with regard to permits to travel, business transactions and logistic support against the Palestinian resistance.

IDF fired on non violent protesters and PA security troops fired back....why dont you obnoxious idiots get out of palestine instead of being such a problem?

They will never learn. It's like: I dare you to slap me! SLAP! I dare you again! SLAP! It will go on forever. Forget about it

Tell the Palestinians you are taking more of their land, and not returning what you have already taken, then when Palestinians react blame them for lessening the chance of peace. Wow, no change in tactics from Israel. All they have done for the past 18 months is "poke a snake with a stick" and whine when there is a reaction.

I can understand the security elements--but the "buy our stuff or else!" part seems kinda creepy.

it hurts you to see popular intifada.

from pa. only act on this time not like barak, and earlier pm's. pa will only understand a tough response. and get the message out. jewish lands, jewish history we have returned to the world stage and recognize and accept we are a jewish state in lands previously conquered by arabs we are the real indigenous natives not you. you are conquering thieves. this last point is why arabs have rejected accepting us as jewish state it exposes their thieving, lying ways.

If they can't stop the protests, we will! What do they think we have, some kind of freedom of expression, right to protest?

leave east bank alone and stop the occupation