Likud minister to rightists: Give up dream of Greater Israel

Saying 'state' and then describing an entity that has no control of its population or entry or exit or borders means something that doesn't meet any definition of state, even a US state. Berkeley California would have more control over its foreign policy that what Bibi proposed. And if you read the article or the Likud feedbacks, the idea is being rejected by the party. What Bibi described at Bar Ilian has less independence than Guam or Puerto Rico.

Hardman - please state the Article you're referencing from the San Remo conference. You cannot, because no such article states what you are claiming so blantantly false. I've read all the articles forwards, backwards, between the lines, etc, and your claims are simply false as usual...just another spin doctor. Lisa - you want peace but want to shove YOUR conditions down the throats of the Pals. Basically your way or the highway mentality. Well no thanks then. Please continue to build upon occupied territory to your hearts content. Once the 2-state solution is tossed because of your ignorant statements regarding expansion, we will get our equal rights and start imposing our will upon you...maybe we'll play nice, maybe not. One thing for certain, we never forget.

In 1956 Ben Gurion said, "Why should the Arabs make peace? If I was an Arab leader I would never make terms with Israel. That is natural: we have taken their country.........They may perhaps forget in one or two generations' time, but for the moment there is no chance. So, it's simple: we have to stay strong and maintain a powerful army.? Two generations have now passed. The Arabs have been treated poorly by Israel, and new fears and distrusts have been cultivated by Israel's actions among the Arabs. The dream of a greater Israel can only be accomplished by more overt violence against Palestinians. Is that justice or will it further destroy any chance for peace? Israel is at a crossroads and has choices to make .... peace with justice or more and more land.

'The same Likud that people keep wrongly accusing of not wanting a Pal state...' says FSM. This is what it actually said: The Jewish communities in Judea and Samaria are the realization of Zionist values. Settlement of the land is a clear expression of the unassailable right of the Jewish people to the Land of Israel. Likud will continue to strengthen and develop these communities and will prevent their uprooting. The Government of Israel flatly rejects the establishment of a Palestinian Arab state west of the Jordan river. The Palestinians can run their lives freely in the framework of self-rule, but NOT as an independent and sovereign state. Jerusalem is the eternal, united capital of the State of Israel and only of Israel. The Likud government will act with vigor to continue Jewish habitation and strengthen Israeli sovereignty in the eastern parts of the city. That's pretty clear then - Likud OPPOSES a Palestinian state and wants the land.

this is what the de jure israel is based upon and its territories!!!! not quotations from tom dick and ben !!

With such poor and biaised historical knowledge, I suggest YOU read proper history books for a start. "The entire WB is 100% Israeli property"... Yeah right.

That under the solution she suggests, all Jews wishing to remain in West Bank (a term she uses, not me) will become Palestinian Jews. I guess she has not read spe;eches by Abbas or Erekat who have both said repeatedly that the area must be Judenrein. (And Erekat used the German wrod in his speech in Arabic.

Likud Party is not one man rule. Bibi was against a PLO state during the elections and has since contradicted himself. People vote for ideas. The leaders should represent the voter, not deceive him. Let Eitan join Kadima, he doesn't belong in Likud and neither does Bibi if Eitan and him are alike.

like you I'm glad some of our RW are seeing the light at the end of the tunnel. Good assessment, as you stated, we do not have a recognized Capital, No recognized borders, and also No good neighbors, even Egypt and Jordan are Brothers of the Palestinians. May be, the time has come for PM Natanyahu to honestly start doing something about it,that is to sincerely negociating Peace with the Moderate Pres. M.ABBAS . Shalom

where we will surely loosing our Jewish State, earlier than 2020. We cannot ignore the facts of life, facts on the grounds. No surprise that nowadays many Palestininas are opting for a Binational State. This Likud minister is right forget Greater israel, this dream is turning into a NIGHTMARE, So WAKE UP my friends.

The truth hurts to the anti Israelis, bunch of masked antisemites.

Talks have been handled wrong since day 1 and we are still using the same model thats doomed to fail. From the start peace talks have been based on deadlines mainly to satisfy the ego of the US presidents who want to be the ones to say it happened on my watch so its my legacy. Oslo aimed to create an arab state by 1995 a date which came and went. Then we had more deadlines which came and went. Now again we are holding deadline based talks If they wanted REAL PEACE the policy would have been no deadlines it takes as long as it takes you both to reach a mutually acceptable solution. There would have been times when things stalled but they would pick up pretty much where they left off not from scratch. Peace cannot happen without trust and no deadlines allows trust to develop and the more each side trusts each other the easier it would be to get concessions out of both. Its the oslo framework thats been the problem and if Obama was serious about peace he would say this is new US policy

He accepted a State that is de militarised, controlled in the air by Israel. Israeli soldiers on the Eastern border, that is when Israel ever tells us where her borders are. Shall I continue with the pre conditions????. Tell him to change the Likud Charter as it states clearly there will never be a Palestinian state west of the Jordan. Well psm----change the charter then we might begin to believe. Just like you asking Hamas to change theirs. It is your hypocracy that makes you look an idiot psm. You should rid yourself of that before you die---hopefully it will demonstrate your wasted life for you. You are not only reality challenged psm you are an out and out oaf who lies a lot.

I have offered three statements from Israeli leaders over a time period of some 70 yeras. Nothing has changed since BG made his remarks in 1936 to the Peel commission to then Likud charter you so rightly pointed out too our arch apologist psm---who has no interest in peace---except the total capitulation or dissapearance of those damn Arabs. "In 1938, Ben-Gurion made it clear of his support for the "Jewish state" on part of Palestine was only as a stepping ground for a complete conquest. He wrote: "[I am] satisfied with part of the country, but on the basis of the assumption that after we build up a strong force following the establishment of the state--we will abolish the partition of the country and we will expand to the whole Land of Israel." (Expulsion Of The Palestinians, p. 107 & One Palestine Complete, p. 403) * One day after the UN vote to partition Palestine, Menachem Begin, the commander of the Irgun gang and Israel's future Prime Minister between 1977-1983, proclaimed: "The Partition of Palestine is illegal. It will never be recognized .... Jerusalem was and will for ever be our capital. Eretz Israel will be restored to the people of Israel. All of it. And for Ever." (Iron Wall p. 25) * ""Shamir has said Israel must keep the territories in order to accommodate the immigrants. "A great aliyah [immigration]," he said, "requires a Greater Israel."(5) He has insisted that, although Soviet Jews are not being directed to the territories, any Jew has the right to live anywhere in the land of Israel, which for most Israelis includes the territories.

Israel said yes to partition plan in 47 - Arabs said No Arabs started 67 war and said no to peace in 67 Khartom Israel offered 97% of WB in 2000 - Arabs said no and started war and killed thousands of Israelis in the most horrific way After the Arabs lost the intifada war -now they want to take the clock back and want all of WB - well they can forget about it and the longer they procrastinate the more the jews move in and build up towns in yosh. time is on Israel's side The entire WB is 100% Israeli property - read every history book - if you start a a war kill thousands and lose the war - you don't get a prize!!!!!!!!!

Here we go again with the accusations of "bigotry" and "racism" ! Your interpretation of history is false and apparently you do not want to understand why. Israelis are "willing to pay the price" ? but what price ? keeping hundreds of settlements amongst the palestinian population in the WB is the solution you think ? just because you and your fanatic friends said so ? and you pretend you want peace ? You keep accusing the arabs. Can you blame yourself at least ? "Wanting peace" makes you feels good doesn't it ? but you're millions of miles from reaching it. Believe me.

Greater Israel is a G-d wish more than a human one.

...it's fine to campaign for peace, on a sensible basis (the 1967 borders)... as long as anyone doing so, like Mr. Eitan, places themselves in a position where they can have no impact whatever on actual policy? There's a phrase for that: "having your cake and eating it, too." The one-word summary is a synonym for the modern Zionist: Hypocrite.

Are you sure you support a "Greater Israel" which is code for the murder and expulsion of the Palestinian population from Judea and Samaria? That is the only way your goal would be achieved. Which one of you Greater Israel supporters will march the Palestinians into the gas chambers, or seal them into box cars for transport?? Who's gonna do it?

Eitan is an honest man, but in this he is wrong. A withdrawal to '49 boundaries is neither mandated nor justified. The majority do not think that the PA will cease to exist and that Ramallah and Nablus will be under Israeli rule, but neither should anyone think that forcing people from Beit El or Moreh Alon will bring peace.

LPL: "Jews residing in Hebron and gush etzion is 100% legal. Any other opinion is outright horrific bigotry and rascim - shame on you and your like!" A thought experiment: an American Jew walks into the Israeli embassy in Washington.. Jew: I want to settle in Hebron. Israeli: Certainly, sir. All you need to do is make aliyah to Israel, and then we can... Jew [interrupting]: No, I'm not interested in becoming an Israeli. I want to be a Jew - an American Jew - who settles in Hebron. Israeli: ... er? what? um.. er? what?... Jew: Read. My. Lips. I have no interest in becoming an Israeli. I want to be an AMERICAN Jew who lives in Hebron. Nothing more. Nothing less. Now, Lisa, what do you think his chances are of winning that argument? I'd say somewhere between zero and nothing. What about you?

"The same Likud that people keep wrongly accusing of not wanting a Palestinian state" What do you main "wrongly accusing". Did Likud retract its charter? "The Government of Israel flatly rejects the establishment of a Palestinian Arab state west of the Jordan river." http://www.knesset.gov.il/elections/knesset15/elikud_m.htm

Simple solution Lisa all the jews in settleman land belong to Palestinian can stay is long they become Palestinian jews! simples solution. This will tell the world how much Israel want peace The Ball is in Israel court!

Independent and sovereign are almost nearly perfect synonyms. Under sovereignty, the subject has the ability to govern itself free from the influence of a foreign entity. Also, you are wrong about your claim against Netanyahu. He very much accepted an independent, sovereign Palestinian nation at his Bar-Ilan speech, however with the contingency that they do not militarize. It is pretty easy to argue that not having a military does not impinge upon one's right to govern itself. Just look at Japan from 1945 to recent times...

Wonderful - so at last, yet another Likud member (finally) realizes that Greater Israel is dead and peace needs to be worked for. How long will we have to wait till Eitan's other colleagues come to their senses? We're 61 years old, and have no recognized capital, no recognized borders and no peace ... enough already!

has announced he accepts a Palestinian state. "Are you"??? ?I neither live nor vote in Israel. I can stand on my head and whistle dixie it makes NO difference to Israeli policy,Is that the best you can do?. The head of any party knows he can get voted out of office if he gets out of line with his power base. You cant cope with any reality that flies in the face of your prejudices can you?

The Jews have the right to live in every part of what was Palestine. That is what Zionism is all about. But the Palestinians have exactly the same rights. And as the Jews & the Arabs have proved in the last 70 years that they CANNOT live to-gether ,then there can only be one possible solution. That is two states. Any Jew who believes there can be peace with the Palestinians , when Jews can settle anywhere on the West Bank is a lunatic.

the arabs never will give up smoking !!! 990 years of failure not enough for this idiot 1

No PEACE NO Negotiations No Recognition. of Israel. What did you expect a bunch of roses? Israel could have taken the West Bank and Litani when they kicked the Arab invading Armies out in 1948. Spin all that away.

Mr Eitan,leave the likud and join meretz ! Thanks

I know it might hurt, but try a dose of reality. Read what some of the Likudnik posters say. This is one Likudnik telling 20 others. Are you willing to recognize Palestine? Are you willing for it to be independent and unoccupied? More importantly, how many of the Likudniks are willing for an independent and sovereign Palestine to ever exist? Two, three? The elected government of the Palestinians has expired. They won't get another election unless the results are guaranteed. You know that.

The same Likud that people keep wrongly accusing of not wanting a Palestinian state no matter how many times their leadership says the oppositte. Maybe the elected govt of Palestine,Hamas,can now be quoted by the same bashers about their stance on recognising an Israel,any Israel,no matter what the borders. How about a critical examination of what Pals say in Arabic about what belongs to them?

Jews residing in Hebron and gush etzion is 100% legal. Any other opinion is outright horrific bigotry and rascim - shame on you and your like!

No one cares what the Israeli voters did or think. The Israeli voters and the settlers all know and knew that the settlements are illegal, were illegal and always will remain illegal. You will see them being pulled out very soon. You can feel it, they can feel it..its coming and sooner than you think. Your name is a sham. You want peace as long as it comes at the expense of the Palestinians.

The Israeli voter said loud and clear no to 67 borders! The Israeli public DOES want peace VERY much and is willing to pay a price but going bk to 67 borders is not even an option. The likud solution is the correct and fair solution. Yes to Palestinian self rule including sovereignty/flag/passport/free border crossing in Jordan. Arab leadership must pay the price for their colossal errors, starting the 48, 67 and 2000 wars and adamantly refusing compromise and peace. The arabs can solve the refugee problem in all the other arab countries. the arabs have endless amount of land and petro-$$. The PA state can include all the main arab population centers in the WB - It can and will have land contiguity and it can even include some arab neighborhoods near Al-kuds(jerusalem). It could even include some of the arab centers on Israel side (um el facham). It must be demiliatarized again because of what the PA did with the arms in 2000-04. Peace is doomed if Israel adopts the Oslo concept which is Israel gives up land and the arabs provide promises. Promises have no value if there isn't very serious commitment!! The only way the Arabs can prove commitment is by them making concrete concessions. Concrete concessions on the side of the arabs means: 1)Accepting that Israel will not go back to 67 borders - Israel will maintain the settlement blocks 2)Recognizing Israel's historic connection to the Temple Mount and permitting Jewish prayer and the erection of a Synagogue on the Temple mount

Zionists have always denied that they even had this "dream". They brush it off as some sort of conspiracy theory. Even though its been apparent that this "dream" is whats been driving the settlers and the rest of israel to steal and take whatever they could, whenever they could. With the exception of the Christian Zionists and the fanatic Judaic Zionists everyone else who you claim is against you has been telling you that your dreams will never be achieved at the cost of murdering, displacing and transferring the Palestinians and to give up on your dream and make peace. Enough is enough!

While Labour does agree with you (and nobody is voting for them anymore), the Likud and its voters disagree with you. Since your positions are obviously much closer to Labour than Likud, I would recommend that you join Labour and try to breathe new life into them. You have no place in the Likud.

Concessions and compromises please only he who mediates. It does no good either party if the wants and the needs are not entirely fulfilled. A man's hunger cannot be satisfied with a bite from an apple no matter how big his bite--no matter how big the apple.

And probably not enough practicality to realize that Palestine has to be independent and sovereign. Netanyahu has never once expressed a willingness for Palestine to be either.