Israel launches campaign to halt Lebanon flotilla bound for Gaza
Foreign Ministry instructs Israeli ambassadors to ask senior American, UN, EU and Egyptian officials to pressure Syria and Lebanon to stop latest planned flotilla from sailing from Lebanon to Gaza.
By Jack Khoury, Natasha Mozgovaya, Barak Ravid and Zvi Bar'el Tags: Israel news Lebanon Syria GazaIsrael launched a diplomatic effort yesterday to keep the latest planned flotilla from sailing from Lebanon to the Gaza Strip.
The Foreign Ministry instructed Israeli ambassadors to ask senior officials in the United States, United Nations, European Union and Egypt to pressure Syria and Lebanon to stop the flotilla, which Israel deems a "provocation" in light of its recent decision to end its civilian blockade of Gaza.
Syria has been included because senior Israeli officials say it is helping to organize the flotilla. Hezbollah is also involved, they charged.
"This is a clear and organized provocation," one official said.
Officially, the flotilla is being organized by Palestinian businessman Yasser Kashlak, who last month tried and failed to organize another flotilla from Lebanon. The two ships are slated to sail from Tripoli by the end of this week.
Israel's message to international diplomats is that it views this flotilla particularly gravely because it is sailing from the port of an enemy country.
Last week, Egypt cooperated with Israel in diverting a Libyan aid ship headed to Gaza to the Egyptian port of El-Arish, and so Israeli officials are hopeful it will do the same this time.
Israel is still refusing to release three Turkish ships captured in a May 31 raid on an earlier Gaza-bound flotilla, saying it will not do so without a written pledge from the Turkish government that the ships will not be used for such activities again. That raid, which resulted in the death of nine Turks after passengers attacked the Israeli boarding party, tore gaping holes in the already tattered Israeli-Turkish relations.
A representative of the IHH organization, which sponsored that flotilla, told the Turkish daily Hurriyet that in the past, Israel has demanded such guarantees only from the groups that organized the ships, not from the governments of the countries whence they sailed.
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The Mavi Marmara entering the port of Ashdod. |
| Photo by: Reuters |
Ankara, for its part, is demanding that Israel supply tugs to tow the ships to Turkey. Israel has yet to respond to this demand, and is apparently unwilling to discuss it until the Turks respond to Israel's demand for a written guarantee.
Turkish officials said they believe Israel is using its possession of the ships to prove its claim that the government in Ankara played an active role in the flotilla. Turkey insists the flotilla was strictly a private initiative by IHH.
Turkey is also still demanding that Israel apologize for the raid's casualties - a demand Israel has rejected on the grounds that no casualties would have occurred had its soldiers not been attacked. Recently, however, Ankara has slightly softened its stance, saying it will hold off on insisting on an apology until Israel completes its own probe of the raid.
Ankara is angry that Washington has not launched its own inquiries, as one of the nine killed in the incident was an American citizen of Turkish descent. Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan even charged that Washington is indifferent "because he was a Turk."
American officials say they have asked Turkey for the autopsy report, which is necessary to conduct any probe, but that Ankara refuses to hand it over.
IHH, for its part, is seeking to file lawsuits against Israel over the flotilla in international courts. The group recently invited Israeli lawyers to a conference to discuss how this could best be done.
One of the invitations went to Adalah - The Legal Center for Arab Minority Rights in Israel, which eventually decided to decline the invitation on the grounds that Israel, like many other countries, defines IHH as a terrorist organization. Attendance at such a conference could result in legal proceedings against the Israeli participants.
Private Israeli attorneys invited to attend evidently declined for the same reason, and a source familiar with the guest list said that, in the end, it includes no Israelis.
However, IHH claims the list does include lawyers from 25 other countries, including the United States, Britain, Egypt and Indonesia.
Meanwhile, American activists are trying to raise funds for their own ship to Gaza, which they plan to call "The Audacity of Hope," after U.S. President Barack Obama's best-selling memoir.
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This propaganda attack inspired by the European red/facist anti semetic alliance is aimed at the destruction piecemeal of the stare of Israel. The friends of terror, whose aims, at heart are those of Hitler, ie. the establishment of a United Europe from the Atlantic to the Caucasus, devoid of all Jews.
that makes Israel not only criminals and pirates, but also thieves.
Israel is provoking everybody else in the Middle East all the time, it is pure hypocrisy for their government accusing the Lebanese of provocation.
terorists trying to make show, some of the people thinking they are cleaver start to find them right, but i invite them to think well, what will come after Israel, remember what happened in NY and after! , those stupidities make terorist more courageous than before, unfortunatelly world can not understand before fire jump near them
orders are shoot to kill
not that anyone in Israel is in any way interested in the law. Israel is the provocaion
Send in the fleet and end the suffering of these miserable souls. There is absolute NOTHING the Zionists can do about it militarily. You will earn the adulation of the American people.
And you all will be able to know why...
I think Turkey should change government and so should Israel if they want to stay future allies! I also think this would be a good idea for other reasons effecting both countries! If Israel and the US still continue to despise Turkey then maybe it is a good idea for Turkey to start gaining technological support from Russia and China! These two super-powers would thrive on this possibility! It is a great shame that countries are governed by cow-boy politicians because ordinary people suffer and nobody else! These corrupt politicians are too busy lining their own pockets to care for ordinary people! SAD!
Israel should adopt a policy that makes clear that any aid for Gaza delivered through Israeli ports will be inspected and then delivered to Gaza but that any ship stopped trying to run the blockade will be confiscated and their cargo not delivered. This will show who is really trying aid the Gazans and who is trying to make a political point.
We were to see flotillas of aid ships coming from a score of countries all sailing at the same time? May the international community show united resistance against this crime against humanity carried out by a repressive regime.
we werent subjected to your anti semetic hate filled tirades spewed forth on a daily basis on every single story. Maybe the fact that you are a self loathing ex jew has something to do with it. Dream on Yaacov , dream on. We are here to stay and will be here long after you are gone and forgotten.
Your types just can't accept any criticism without calling those who would help you "anti-semitic," or "self hating" Jews, etc. Your paranoia, arrogance and hubris are the causes of rising sentiments against Israel, not anit-semitism. Get used to it.
yaakov why don't you visit Gaza and see what is going on there, i think you have been brainwashed by the media! i invite you to also see China, Iran, and some african countries, than compare and see where the humanitarian crises are?
Arab and Iranian dictators oppress their subjects, sponsor half of the world’s major terror groups and imperil Israel, the Middle East’s sole democracy. 360 million people in Arab states and Iran are entitled to the same freedom and prosperity enjoyed by Europeans, Americans and Israelis. The Middle East includes 7 out of 19 of the most repressive regimes in the world and their weapons of mass destruction. It is also the hotbed of Jihad (Holy War), an ideology of world domination. The scourge of international terrorism now reaches far beyond the United States and Israel
enough is enough with turkey..we should not hesitate to erase the name turkey from our headlines,,daliy news,period. initiative first to cut our deplomatic relationship.,cacel all deals . issue a travel ban,ignore them, we dont trust them any more period,, turkey are useless for us .and we dont need them. let them bury there policy with the dictatorship countrys or terrorist organiztion, any how they not will come into the E .U . israel now should recognaize armenians masscare .or the genocide by turkey.period...
The trick in being sucsessful in the game of life, the military and political confrontations included, is to spend as little energy and materials as possible to achive the desirable effect. Remember also to keep it simple and stupid.
Well, when it is done by Israel, killing Americans is not a crime. That is why when Rachel Corrie died, nothing was done. that is why the 34 American sailors were killed aboard the Liberty ship with hardly any mention in the American media or repercussions. When it comes to Israel, it is always the fault of the victims. For America, the Americans, and the American government, Israel can do no wrong. Israel always the victim, regardless of who it kills and why.
Rachel Corrie suicided. I would be just as much if I jumped on the highway. My family won't be able to complain. Also the Liberty was an incident. Even the US concluded this! You can talk for them? Why, are you President Obama?
This isn't the first time or the first place that is happening. In the USA most American support Israel but the the anti Israeli element here is extremely loud threatening and militant and the media love it and helps perpetuate the notion that Israel is Isolated and without support.
how the gazans suckered the world in getting the world to believe that they are suffering. it is due to their own actions that brought this on . its a shame we are wasting 1 shekel on them . all flotillas are a waste and only propaganda. since hamas has had gaza how much of a society have they built-schools-hospitals-water and electric infrastructure. we all know they hide their weapons in the hospitals and in places that will kill as many civilians as possible.. when will we wake up .
Before you start crying for the poor palestinians pse keep in mind that they get over a billion USD in help every year.From US, UN, EU not to mention Saudi. Plus the political support from the whole world. What do they want more ? With all that money and the riht leadership they should be living on a high standard. What happens to all the aid ?
We were told that Flotilla activity would increase once the World Cup ended. Too bad the middle east world wasn't interested in baseball.
I've searched, but have not been able to find the official list of what is not allowed into Gaza.. Does anyone have a link? When Ashton visited Israel, she said she was pleased with Israel's decision to expand what is allowed in Gaza, but went on to say she is looking forward to Israel implementing this. Has Israel implemented the new policy? If not, when? If they did implement it, did Israel issue a press release clarifying that the new policy is already fully implemented after Ashton said it was not?
And not only food,but all the necesities.When Ashton was there all I saw was facories,shops full of good.In short all they need.BUTwhat they want is recognition by the world communities that know them as notingbut a terror entity not deserving more.Although they receive monies for which are spent on weapons.Oh they need cement(it seems to build)BUT TO BUILD WHAT? Tunnels to attack the innocent Jewish civilians.No more,and no less. Remember that Israel sends truckfuls of good regularely.No contraband of course.hardly likely to send them WEPONS are they? So,there is no such thing as a list.
why do not you spare sometimes and visit Gaza, you can easliy see yourself what is allowed, or not. do not forget to bring some money to spend in new shopping mall, you understand what i mean!!!!!
I bet IDF commandos would escort that ship to Gazza and throw flowers instead of bullets...
I hope these flotillas go ahead and help the poor and starving of Gaza. However, i hope the people on the flotilla also make clear to Hamas that they do not sympathises with this terrorist organisation and galid shalit must be released immedately
well?
al quaide also preparing filotlilla to protest american attacked to Afganistan, all teroroist organisations will prepare fillotillas! also starving and poor gaza has new shopping mall
why can Israel have the most sophisticated weapons on earth and all means of destruction of an oponent and the palestinians are denied even cement to build bomb shelters to save their skins, IS THIS FAIR I know you will say that palestinians are attacking Israel but what about Israel , isnt it also attacking Palestinians.. why not play a fair game
The Palestinians in Gaza (Hmas) do not use the cement to build bomb shelters as they do not care a damn about the civilain population. They use the cement to build bunkers and as forms to shape their rockets. IS THIS FAIR. No Israel is not attacking Palestinians in Gaza they are defending against attacks by the Palestinians in Gaza. If they would not try to kill us we would not attack them. Sorry mto upset you but we do not lie down and die anymore to satisfy the Europeans.
fair game? what are you talking about? this is not a game or sporting event, its a war. oh please tell me what war was ever fought as a "fair game"
If you want tell palestinans not to attack to Israel than you can understand if ısrael will contnue to attack or not, is this frear for you? i do not know where you are from but you have no attention to attack to your ennemies if they attack to your country!!!
and move all goods in and out of Gaza through Egypt. The fact is Israel holds 1.5 million people prisoner in the worlds largest concentration camp because it is a nice little earner for Southern Israel. In face lifting the siege of Gaza totally is likely to cause the collapse of the entire economy of Southern Israel. Hence the reluctance of Israel to end the siege totally.
If Hamas were merely trying to build a state inside Gaza just like the Palestinian Authority is trying to build a state inside West Bank (while recognizing the 1967 borders of israel), then Israel would not be encircling Gaza (which is to prevent Hamas from getting missiles. You have malevolently obfuscated the fact that Hamas does not recognize Israel's right to exist and that its actions are for the annihilation of Israel.
Which credible economic analysis does that come from? Egyptian fear and loath the Moslem brotherhood/Hamas.There have been articles about it even in Haaretz When Egypt wants to open the border it does as it did after the Turkish jihadist boat deaths and the Pals smuggle virtually anything they like through the tunnels which Egypt chooses to ignore and Hamas finds a nice little earner. All missing from your narrative
You obviously know nothing about Israel, or particularly "southern Israel" for which you claim Gaza is a "nice little earner". Where do you get this ridiculous information? Gaza earns nothing for Israel. Gazans could, of course, earn much from Israel as they did for decades--they just need to stop shooting rockets at Israel and kidnapping soldiers. A minor detail.
Yeah, if only Hamas were like Fatah, standing by while settlers terrorize the natives, and letting Israel eat up every last bit of land. If only ...
Mr Giggles is here again spouting the usual palestinian propoganda. Did you forget when you post about Israel eating up every last bit of land that the settlements in Gaza were evecuated in 2005 and the Gazans were left with $14 million of greenhouses plus promises that Gaza was going to be turned into a garden of paradise. Some paradise. The only people tewrrorizing the natives in Gaza today is the benevolent goverment of Hamas. Dont let the facts concern you just repeat the same old lies. Whos giggling now.
you say Israel is holding the gazans prisoner but then you admit people and goods can move in and out through Egypt. So its a prison with only 3 walls? No country has an obligation to open its borders to another. Let Egypt resume responsibility for the cesspool that is gaza.
The evidence and Israel's refusal to allow the means for Gaza to become independent of Israel including bombing it's deepwater port, tends to indicate otherwise.
I'm glad the government did not cave in to world opinion. As ridiculous as I believe their techniques to be, Israel has both the right and the obligation to protect their country as they see fit.
So what is wrong with provoking Israel to join the human race and start acting accordingly. Isn't Israel provoking the entire world by their inhumane actions in Gaza ? Isn't Israel provoking violence by walling in 2 million people and then bombing them for 3 weeks (like shooting fish in a barrel ) .
Isn't Gaza acting wrong by launching rockets without even respecting the Geneva Conventions!!! These are basic laws, that transcend the Convention on Human Rights that no country even followed!
is ısrael provoking by self defencing? is the gazas only door via ısrael? did you mvisit gaza and see if there is any humanitarian problem causing by Israel? do so and talk/think accordingly, Ignorants have so much to say!!!!
IHH is a terrorist organization, in actual fact. Nobody denies it. And those facts demonstrate that the ship was not takin Turkish Flag. Secondly, the other ships were not being touched by Israel; only The Marmara. Israel was announcing all the time that warns the ship before attacking. Thirdly, in the ship there are no such helpful things for Gaza's people. Finally, It has been known that Kızılay; This organization announced that Why did IHH give us the things that they want to transport to Gaza? They also told that we always in the land of Israel. And Israel has been given the things of all the transportation assistance. So WHAT IS THE PROBLEM?
Who exactly has labelled the IHH as a terrorist organization? No other country except Israel, it seems. IHH in Germany is not afffiliated with IHH in Turkey either. These broke apart in the mid 90's and have no connection since.
"the other ships were not being touched by Israel; only The Marmara" All the other ships were boarded and taken by force to Ashdod.
you have to be objective! Objectivisim is the best thing that separates the feelings and the facts.
i, invite you to check peoples who where in this boat than you can juge if they are terrorists or not
by the way: UN ? wasnt this that teethless-tiger-organisation u dont want to deal with ? anyway, better to let some ambassadors do the job than lieberman. and s.th. without ironie: for exactly these cases a friend like turkey couldnt be worther. wake up. hear to world, to ur friends and partners. do not wait for decades for that stupid apology.
In theory, naming a ship for the Mother of Christ, a Jewish woman, and a ship full of nuns will cause the IDF to hesitate in the bloodletting. But then as nuns, they might have rulers or prayer beads (rosaries) or other heavy weapons.
Gaza is far from starving but fellow travellers have nothing better to do then come here with infantile postings
Your fear of nuns is misplaced, Peter. Some are downright pleasant. I've never met one that believes in Jihad. Control your fears.
Its amazing how nearly the entire World media has become infiltrated by propagandists. Its a well orchestrated symphony timed to attack in unison when directed by a hidden evil conductor.The flotilla was in part a propaganda ploy used discredit Israel and America (if they get in the way). Why cant the good half of the World see they are being outclassed by evil. The amazing relentlessness and patience of these fascists is frightening. If good doesnt rise to the challenge soon, the World will become very dark for humanity for a long time.
To begin to shed the positive ray of light must start here with Haaretz publication. Though its liberal attitude tends to attract very unattractive and unsavoury characters who find it necessary to bash, insult, and come down to anti Jew and anti Israel hate sentiments that Haaretz feels necessary to pass censorship and post Im inclined to notice who is who by now, and Im sure Haaretz censors know too so please be discriminating in the future thanks Haaretz for your attention
because that would be totally silly
Exactly my thoughts when reading posts like yours - you described Zionist propaganda perfectly. However, it's no longer working, the world has woken up the evil of Israel's policies.
Or you just love to come to Haaretz and dumb your two liner expertise??
While Hamas continues to complain that Gaza lacks building materials, a luxury mall in Gaza City held its grand opening over the weekend. Among the goods on sale are Israeli men's clothing, and items from Turkey, France, and the United States. the opening coincided with a visit to Gaza from European Union foreign policy director Catherine Ashton. "The BBC and other media have featured extensive reports all day long on what they term the dire economic situation in Gaza; why are they not mentioning the new shopping mall that opened there yesterday?” Gross asked. Pictures of the new mall were featured on the Palestinian Authority Safa website and by the Associated Press. A variety of stores sell cosmetics, clothing, office supplies, toys, shoes, appliances and more. The mall boasts air conditioning and a delivery service. Hamas has often accused Israel of creating a “siege” by keeping its border crossings to Gaza closed. According to Hamas, Gaza lacks electricity and building supplies. Gross, who has previously posted pictures of fancy restaurants, shops filled with goods, and even an Olympic-size swimming pool during the “Israeli siege,” pointed out that Gaza enjoys a higher standard of living than Turkey, which recently sent citizens on a flotilla to Gaza in violation of an Israeli naval blockade of Hamas. Noting that life expectancy and literacy rates are higher in Gaza than in Turkey, while infant mortality rates are lower, he asked, “Have they considered that perhaps the humanitarian flotillas ought to be going in the other direction, towards Turkey?” Jew-Hatred must be a thriving industry in Gaza.. How else can they afford to have a luxury mall in Gaza City?
Pave all of Gaza with asphalt and make a giant parking lot with a :Big Box Mart" inside. The Palestinians could be door greeters and recover shopping carts ! At least they would have jobs and not be on 'global' welfare.
Israel's continued willingness to acquiesce to the patent absurdities contained in the international positions regarding Gaza is at the root of this issue. If the int'l community insist that Gazans should be able to import and export whatever goods & personnel via the Gazan coast, then they forfeit the right to access Israel. The int'l community must be told they cannot have both and seek to prosecute war at the same time. If the border between Gaza and Israel is the recognised int'l border between two states then both have an absoluite right to open or close their component elements. The current situation simply indulges the Palestinian infantilised state of mind and can never deliver a stable peace.
Why create a big fuss for a failed policy...Inspect the ship and let it go through
Laying siege to Gaza where Israel effectively keeps 1.5 million people hostage is a nice little earner for Israel. It isn't about security that's a smokescreen, it's about the entire economy of Southern Israel. Simply put it is a nice little earner, Israel will fight tooth and nail to ensure that they keep the revenues flowing in.
what a bunch of nonsense. what has Gaza got to do with southern Israel economy? Oh yes, it gets ruined, when rockets fall on Sderot, or Beer Sheva. Give us a break, there is no human crisis in Gaza, they just opened a brand new shopping mall, with everything the heart desires
why people like you just talk and act by only watching tvs etc. why do not spend sometimes and see hwat is hapenning in Gaza! travelling there should also be cheap! also do you think there is no worse humanitarian problem world wide i wonder why people only react to gaza where they even capable to open shopping malls, bazaars etc!!!
Lift the blockade, allow the deepwater port in Gaza to be re-opened andallow the desalination plant, power station and sewage treatment plany Israel has held up for tow years from crossing into Gaza and sever all ties with Gaza, and allow the international community repair Gazan infrastructure. Until that happens, the only reason that Israel refuses to lift the blockade is that it is a nice little earner for Israel no other reason.
We have to frame any and all references to not allowing ships to deliver to Gaza as an "arms imbargo". We are trying stop "gun runners". The world out there gets it's perceptions formed by short phrases, sound bites and segments of video.
security is a smokescreen, it's about keeping 1.5 million people prisoner and then charging the International community serious wads of cash to let them transport food and water into Gaza. The means to provide Gaza with all their water and electrical needs treat their sewage has been refused entry by Israel for two years. Why is that I wonder?
Once agaion our master of lies and decpetion strikes. Lets see now. You are saying that the truckers (mostly inderpendant) should not charge at all for their services in transporting food and water into Gaza. Actually I thought that water was transported by pieline but who knows in the alternate world of Chris Linthwaite maybe its trucked in. I have friends who are truck drivers and nobody is charging or making "serious wads of cash" Could you possibly post a link to that statement or is this another of the Linthwaite fantasies like Lieberman being "spanked" by the EU or Turkey sending war ships etc etc. You express wonderment why we Israel has not provided pipes to upgrade there sewage plant maybe because 1) Hamas used the money provided for other things like arms and 2) Why should we provide them with the instruments to build more rockets to fire at us. You want the blockade lifted its very simple. All Hamas has to do is recognise the State of Israel. Denounce Terrorism , abide by all previous agrrements and release Gilad Shalit. Very simple.
So can you tell me just exactly what jobs these truck drivers in Israel would be doing if they weren't making money delivering aid to Gaza?
yes it is, and by your own admission the blockade creates jobs in Israel
IHH is accused of being a terrorist group.When did sending food and essentials to besieged people become a terrorist act?
The organisation is linked to the funding of terrorism by Germany and France !
When Israel is forced to allow ships through without checking them, then other ships which ARE carrying weapons to Hamas can get through more easily. Anti-Israelis are not the brightest bunch. You think breaching a military blockade is a peaceful thing to do?
first of all you must know the origin of IHH. Also many members of IHH are related to Hamas.
While Hamas continues to complain that Gaza lacks building materials, a luxury mall in Gaza City held its grand opening over the weekend. Among the goods on sale are Israeli men's clothing, and items from Turkey, France, and the United States. Are you all aware?There is no humanitarian crisis in Gaza. Thousands of tons of food, goods and equipment are transferred to residents daily by Israel and international organizations such as the United Nations. Since January 2009, more than 1 million tons of humanitarian aid have been transferred. That is approximately one ton of aid for each man, woman and child in Gaza. During the first quarter of 2010 alone, almost 100,000 tons of supplies have been provided, including: 48,000 tons of food products; approximately 550 of milk powder and baby food; 2,700 tons of rice; 40,000 tons of wheat; 185 tons of aggregates; 2,000 tons of clothing and footwear; 20 tons of iron; 25 tons of cement; and more than 1,000 tons of medicine and medical equipment. In a typical week, 15,000 tons of supplies enter Gaza including truckloads of meat, poultry, fish, dairy products, fish, vegetables, milk powder, baby food, wheat and other essential goods. Similarly, fuel and electricity needs are being met, and hundreds of Gazans receive medical treatment in Israel.
I think that Israel will still teach us much more.
Well actually if you think about it the protestors who attempted to breach the blockade have succeeded in their aspirations. Netanyahu has been back tracking since Sunday 31st May. Even the nightclub bouncer has joined in literally begging the International Community to take over Israel's role.
Gaza still only gets 150 truckloads a day, while before the siege it received 750, and now with reconstruction needs it needs at least 950. Electricity is cut off for 12 hours a day.. Hundreds of Gazans have died waiting for permission to exit for urgent medical treatment..thousands are still living in tents waiting to re-built their houses destroyed by Israel.
Release Shalit immediately.
are you going to stop quoting Hamas propaganda. Can you provide one link to the numbers that you post. Can you show one link that hundreds of Gazans have died waiting for permission to exit for urgent medical treatment. Did you forget the hundreds of Gazans that have been treated for free in Israeli hospitals. Israel continues to provide electricity and water to Gaza 24 hours a day . I feel sorry that thousands of Gazans are living in tents but if they had a goverment that cared about them and did not fire thousands of rockets into Israeli civilian areas and would not use any building materials to build bunkers and rocket factories they would not be in tents in the first place. Maggie you are either very young or very naive. For every action there is a reaction. Where where you when our women and children where being blown to bits in restaurants, buses, hotels, eatin pizza or in shopping meals. Where were you Maggie with the bleeding heart terrorist supporter. You worry about the number of trucks going into Gaza I worry about my life. Thats the difference between us Maggie. Now go away and do some research and stay away from those Jihad websites.
"This is a clear and organized provocation," one official said. " wow, illegally occupied and blockaded, and the oppressor screams murder, your so called "legality" is a provocation on the whole world , more boats will come, so shut up and put up with it.
Where is the illegal occupation? In the actuality, Israel is a legal country, without considering the historical facts that attached Israel to that land. That you don't like it, it doesn't mean that they are illegally there. Deal with it!
The issue here is Gaza ! No part of Gaza is occupied for years now! Although no justification exists Gaza fires thousands of rockets illegally at Israel. So now reconsider as these facts seem to be forgotten.
Why are you shocked with illegal occupation. Common relax, yes it is illegal occupation Mr. Mark. Is it the first time you hear about it? What do you think is Israel doing in West Bank, E. Jerusalem, Golan Heights and borders of Gaza? Playing cards or maybe giving flowers for residents??? Yes it is illegal occupation according to UN and international Law. Without also considering, the historical relation between Arab Christians and Muslims to this land!
Viper is talking about Gaza being Illegally occupied, not Israel...don't be so defensive. He's not saying Israel should not exist. He's under the perception that Israel still occupies Gaza, which, Viper, it does not. However, it "virtually" does through its air, land and sea blockade, thus, oppressing the people that live there. I would like to add that Hamas oppresses those same people for its own gains and I'm sure Egypt loves the tunnels for the money that is flowing to them. In fact, there was a recent article discussing the deflation caused by the goods on the "banned" list being allowed in. It caused a supply surge, which brought down the prices, which was nice for the poor but Hamas and other rich businessmen in Gaza hate it. It also causes the tunnels to be superfluous. "This" is the reason, the blockade should be lifted.
it is NOT classified as occupied No matter how many times you repeat it or quote the UN whicgh does not make laws
This is a message to all you idiots who lack historical knowledge by claiming illegal occupation by Israel over Palestine. Israel you morons did not occupy the land. It reclaimed it from the Romans who stole it from Israel in the first place and after leaving some centuries ago, had the audacity of renaming the country Palestina. Since their departure, squatters like yourselves who keep on claiming territorial rights by claiming that it is your land, get you historical facts straight. Nothing could be more further from the truth, so stop crying like babies by being told the reality of it. As for those countries who actually did take over the land of others, in referring to the native Indians of North America, the Aborigines of Australia, including those responsible for the millions of deaths that includes Armenians, Christians and Jews, why don’t you raise your voice to them for having been and remaining the true illegal occupiers over others.
the Pals wont have anything to show for all this bravado, except a new mall build w/ the 'donations' of other dummies who are financing terror against the State of Israel.
So far, Israel has decided to allow into Gaza all items except those fit for military use. What remains of the "siege" is not allowing the Export of finished goods even if raw materials can come in, as well as the prevention of movement of Gazans in and out of that territory (irrespective of security considerations). The inability to export essentially destroys the Gaza economy, rendering the population destitute and in need of food relief. With exports, the Gazans will not be in need of relief and all future "flotillas" will become pointless. Here is a good way to end the "flotillas", just lift the rest of the "siege". And here is another reason: a legal opinion (by the UN's Human Rights Council): "The [Goldstone] Report states that Israeli acts that deprive Palestinians in the Gaza Strip of their means of subsistence, employment, housing and water, that deny their freedom of movement and their right to leave and enter their own country, that limit their rights to access a court of law and an effective remedy, could lead a competent court to find that the crime of persecution, a crime against humanity, has been committed"- unhchr.ch/huricane/huricane.nsf/0/9B63490FFCBE44E5C1257632004EA67B?opendocument . In any event, the prevention of ships going into Gaza is justified by security concerns. The ports of Ashdod (Israel) and El-Arish (Egypt) are near the Gaza strip and should be used instead.
After your elaborate cutting and pasting and big wors like crime against humanity etc, let me ask you this: Have you heard about sucicde bombing in Israel schools, buses, malls? Have you heard about mortars, Qassams and Grads falling on Israeli kindergartens? Have you heard about IDEs, sniping and mortar shells falling on Isralelis across the border? Have you hears about 9 weapon ships with 50000 tons of explosives and weapons that were intercepted? Do you think that the above is persecution, crime against humanity etc?
This a typical reply. Astonishing in the way it twists and distorts and reshapes the truth.
If israel implements international law, and ends its illegal occupation, then we can start seeing peace.
THE INTIFADA SPECIAL--- Ingredients Crushed rubble from Palestinian homes. Broken olive branches with olives still attached. Broken Palestinian bones ala Yitzak Rabin. Congealed Palestinan Blood ala IDF. Palestinian babies bodies soaked in White phosphorous and stewed in raw sewage.(Easily found running on the streets of Gaza---compliments IAF. Mix all the above and place in a large pot, then place a tight lid and steam for 40 years stirring intermittently--add hot chilli as required. Gauranteed to satiate the ravenous hunger of any land hungry Zionists palate and produce the desired effect Are you satiated Ilogios.
What's "ALA" got to do with your edited edition of the Elders of Zion.??
I see that that you haven't understood even after this time, so expect another round. How are katyushas or weapon ships related to what I said? You solve one problem, the "flotillas" one way but you may have other problems left, such as your overdraft. There is no panacea that will provide all solutions at once.
Posters from YaLibnan said also Hamas keeps supplies from Palestinians, so world will see them starving. Sounds like something the Japanese did to American POW's, keeping Red Cross supplies from them. Also, posters said why not give the supplies instead to the Palestinians in Lebanon who are starving. Also, many of the goods may have expired labels; however, that does not mean they are no good, a mistake they may have made in Haiti. Expired dates on the labels means they give them away free, but the goods may still be o.k.
oh dear, our lovely resident apologists seem to have their stories contradicting each other! mark says that the people of gaza are living the good life, anonymous says that they're starving because of hamas, the red cross says that the problem isn't that they're starving, it's that israel is preventing them from being self-sufficient. who to believe?!
Okay...send them...an port at egypt then take the goods to gaza, if you really interested in actually giving the goods for the ppl in gaza. But if you interested in PR, try to break the blockade again and lets see what happens.
Israel mans the checkpoint from Gaza, does it not? You can't get goods in and out w/o going thru Israel- Okay? Thats what occupation is all about
If it were, the U.S. would have been "occupying" Cuba during the Missile Crisis.
No, Israel doesn't man the border between Egypt and Gaza.
if you noticed, it said through Egypt. Israel does not man the entrance fromEgypt. Egypt does, duh!!! Talk to them.
Israel does NOT man the checkpoints on the border between Gaza and Egypt..
Gaza has two borders not one, they can perfectly pass anything through the egypsian border. Egypt has a bigger border , now can you tell me why Egypt is also blockading Gaza?Are they also zionist???? Time has come to stop demonizing Israel and ask yourself why Egypt gave away gaza to palestinians...And believe me they don't definitely want palestinians in their country.
The flotilla should be stopped because it is “provocation”. One man’s provocation is another’s persistence.
This ship was christened "Mary" according to YaLiban; Mary was the mother of Jesus' Mariam being arabic for Mary. Why was this ship christened "Mary"? Why a ship of women? Because, the women thought that no one would attack a ship of women; today, because of women's liberation, women can suffer the same fate as men. Sorry to disappoint them. Also, the ship is being sent to Cyprus because Israel is considered an enemy? How is Lebanon going to allow it to go to Gaza? Ladies, grow up, women's liberation is here to stay. Women are going to be treated as equals, esp. if they fight as soldiers, etc. A great debate went on here in the USA as to whether women should be allowed in the combat front lines in the army. They are serving there now. Many women are also suicide bombers today; so women cannot be trusted not to be terrorists. Women, don't be so naive. Men, keep these women at home before they get hurt.
In theory, naming a ship for the Mother of Christ, a Jewish woman, and a ship full of nuns will cause the IDF to hesitate in the bloodletting. But then as nuns, they might have rulers or prayer beads (rosaries) or other heavy weapons.
Would it surprise you to know that most of the Palestinians need mental health counseling, and that the UN lists it as the number one health problem for Palestinians? Would it surprise you that not Israel, or not Israel only, is the source of their problems, but maltreatment by their own leaders in Gaza. War is not healthy for children or other living things. Also, Israeli victims of the qassams have mental health problems. Also, the goal of terrorism is to make you mentally ill; since a psychiatrist actually invented it and many of Hitler's men were psychiatrists. Psychological warfare is what it is. Peacemaker would be a better name than warmonkey.
I also know and knew people who were victims of war and were permanently psychologically damaged. Terrorism is actually psychological warfare. Everyone in war suffers and that is what the enemy wants. The holocaust victims were traumatized and so were their children for one. Prisoners of war in WWII were permanently damaged. Man, why don't you find out if Hamas is really treating their own people badly and traumatizing them. A more interesting story than blaming Israel for all the problems all the time. I read what people in Lebanon are saying; I am not looking only at the Israeli side. Maybe Lebanese know more about what is going on in Gaza, since I only know what I read, and I don't live in Israel. You can start becoming well by being a peacemaker, instead of a warmonkey. Working for peace is one of the secrets to good mental health, learning to love other people. When people share and love each other.
He financed the terrorist IHH, he kills kurdish civilians, he keeps cyprus under brutal occupation. He is a genocidal mass murderer.
Plus, he thinks Bashir, the president of Sudan, presiding over the genocide in Darfur, a war criminal, must be innocent because 'Muslims can't commit genocide'.
haven't been.
The animals have already been let into Gaza. These animals are called 'Hamas'. The problem is with these animals in Gaza. They are BAD animals. What do you do with really bad animals?
By the name on this post, I assume you are Jewish. As a Jew, you, above all people should be concerned when groups of people are classified as animals, let alone bad ones! Perhaps you may wish to describe the Palestinians as Untermensch?
Hitler! You two must be related..
The best deterrent is to impound permanently every ship that is not sunk. Ship owners do no like losing their vessels. It is just not good for business ! I can think of a number of uses for these impounded ships. If they are rusted scows then use them for IAF target practice. Don't give them back. These vessels are reparations. Attempts to break the blockade is an act of war. ALL those who participate are active or passive combatants !
These ships become Israeli property when they cross the blockade line. Possession is 9/10 of the law ! You want to keep your ships then stay at home. Cross the line and pay the price. The price will continue to escalate. They are getting off light. Perhaps they should all be sunk in Gaza's harbor?
Yes, now it's okay. What's your point? The prohibitions on things like pasta, and cilantro delegitimized the blockade (which is to prevent weapons from getting into the Gaza Strip). Now those things are allowed. Everything is allowed except for items that may be used as weapons, or components of weapons, or materials used to build bunkers for militants.
Israel is playing a very dangerous game by not allowing cement and reinforcing steel into Gaza. Some time later it will then demolish these houses because they are not built with proper safety standards. As it does in the West Bank and East Jerusalem under the pretense of lacking building permits after any effort at obtaining the same were aborted. That is why it will take many more flotillas to break the Gaza blockade. Palestine has a right to defend itself equal to Israel. There is no cause to prevent any imports and exports. Not even weapons.
"Israel is playing a very dangerous game by not allowing cement and reinforcing steel into Gaza." It would be playing an even more dangerous game if it allowed those materials into Gaza so Hamas could fortify their tunnels and bunkers.
and demolishing them if unsafe .. I think that is one thing you should not be worried about.
Only on condition that it is handled through the UN Mission. Period. We all know that Hamas would like the cement and steel bars to build bunkers, as in the case of Hizbullah in Southern Lebanon, that is on the Northern Border of Israel, which is not a disputed area, except in the case of Shebaa Farms, which is contentious enough since Syria claims that area. Hoping that this message is clear enough, otherwise maybe I should repeat it one more time. Please try to clear your thoughts and have a nice day.
needs to totally ignore Israel and use Egypt to transport everything to Gaza to meet their needs including Concrete. Egypt should also be used to allow Gazan's to export goods. The only way to beat HAMAS is to ensure Gazans have more to lose than to gain if they allow HAMAS to continue to target Israel. In answer to your question Brigitte it wasn't because Pasta was dangerous, it was because an economically successful Gaza would lay to the rest that Israel is some economically successful uberstate in the middle east. When in fact it is no better than Palestine, relying on charity to survive. Hence the responses by people like SDHD the Israeli from Seattle. His complete lack of understanding of the situation is scary. Overnight the tunnels became redundant when Israel was forced to lift the blockade. They are now being used as a smokescreen to prevent the full independence of Gaza, it is a nice little earner for Israel to concentrate 1.5 million people in one area and then charge to allow food and goods, electiricity and water in.
There is no blocade on Palestinians only on gazans.
Israel was already lifting the blockade month for month. And Palestine is the geographical are several country lies on, not a state. Israel has allowed electricity and water even under cast lead.
http://www.jta.org/news/article/2010/07/21/2740136/amreicans-organize-ship-to-join-flotilla-to-gaza July 21, 2010 WASHINGTON (JTA) -- Americans opposed to Israel’s naval blockade of the Gaza Strip are organizing a ship from the United States to take part in an international flotilla. The flotilla, set to sail to Gaza in September or October, will be made up of ships from India, Europe, Canada, South Africa and the Middle East. The organizers hope to name the American ship The Audacity of Hope, after President Obama’s second autobiographical book. “From the deck of The Audacity of Hope, we will be in a powerful and unique position to challenge U.S. foreign policy and affirm the universal obligation to uphold human rights and international law,” organizers wrote on their website, UStoGaza.org. Organizers are trying to raise $370,000 through the website to pay for a ship, crew, and licensing and registration of the boat. They plan to carry 40 to 60 people on board. Among the more than 70 people who have signed the appeal for money are Lara Lee, who smuggled out a video of the flotilla incident in May in which nine aboard a Turkish-flagged ship were killed, and Michael Ratner, director of the Center for Constitutional Rights.
Yeah, so we can sink them.
but it was the IHH which started it to its end. chapeau. u call em terrorist and see turkey as an enemy. u should realize the worlds behavior and attide. the siege will end. the international pressure becomes larger and larger. the costs are immensive. and the world will not accept it longer that a small group of fanatics will punish a whole city for just habitating a few fanatics.
Well thats what you tried to do with the Liberty. And you failed then. Actually what os more likely to happen is that there will be agreements in place for the EU to check ships in Cyprus before they enter Gazan waters. Allowing Israel to lift the maritime blockade but giving them the right to intercept ships who haven't been checked in Cyprus. A fudge admittedly, but one which allows Netanyahu to save face and Lieberman to declare victory.
is a terrorist organization and is part of the US OFAC law, run daily by large intl business's in the US and updated daily by the US govt. guaranteed the US govt is watching this effort closely and trying to follow the money so that they can close another loop
I think that maybe it could actually be a way out for countries that have been supporting Israel blindly up until now to stop by saying "well we really have to do what our people want - they elected us and we are a democratic country." I am quite sure that American Lawmakers as well as Canadian know very well, the feelings on the street in bother countries as well as in Europe that the feelings are anti-Israel and they do not want to support the status-quo. Also, I do not think that either the Canadian or US governments really need to let the present Israeli government save face, in fact, it would be good to let them fall dismally. It would also sober up a lot of Israelis and bring things back down to earth and I think stop the anti-Jewish feeling that Israeli policies have caused worldwide if Israelis put in place a more friendly and peace-making government and not the same old recycled crowd.
I have issues with he following statement: "on the grounds that Israel, like many other countries, defines IHH as a terrorist organization" Can you clarify what other country defines the IHH as a terrorist organization? The German organization that was recently banned was shown to be a distinct group.
We are seriously considering banning them as well.
the turkish group has only been declared a terrorist organization by israel... no other country has done that.
But you haven't banned it yet. So far, only Israel has officially labeled as such. This article's affirmation is completely false.
There is no serious consideration going on inside the State Dept to declaring the IHH to be a terrorist organization. I will point out that even ISRAEL does not list the IHH as a "terrorist organization", despite what this article claims.
The German Bundesverfassungsschutz has treated an affiliate and thus IHH as a organisation which funds terror. It is illegal in German to give any donations to IHH. Similar France had proceedings.
Just how are you reading the news? The German IHH that uses the same initials has been proven to be a completely distinct organisation. The Turkish IHH even sued them for trademark infringement a few years ago.
I'm sure Lebanon is very moved by the bogus plight of the Palestinians--those same Palestinians they've kept locked up in refugee camps since 1948, not allowing them citizenship of decent work, or any civil rights at all. I'll bet a flotilla would be just the thing to divert the world's attention from all the rockets Hezbollah has aimed at Israel's cities.
The flotilla is from a private citizen, who happens to be one of those "those same Palestinians they've kept locked up in refugee camps since 1948".
and the blame falls squarely on the shoulders of Israel who decided that they would try to hang on to South Lebanon and the Litani River. Which lead to the creation of Hezbollah. Likewise HAMAS was an Israeli invention as a counter to the PLO. A slice of Israeli history they would rather you didn't know.
800,000 Jews fled or were kicked out of Arab countries when Israel was created, and were resettled in Israel, while the Arabs couldn't do the same for their "brothers", instead keeping them penned up in refugee camps for sixty years and counting.Mabybe this guy needs a flotilla to Beirut instead!!
800,000 Jews fled or were kicked out of Arab countries when Israel was created, and were resettled in Israel, while the Arabs couldn't do the same for their "brothers", instead keeping them penned up in refugee camps for sixty years and counting.Mabybe this guy needs a flotilla to Beirut instead!!
what created those terrorist organizations, was the lack of Arab ability to deal with modernity, combined with Israel's success from nothing. Hisbollah was on the scene in 1982 and before when they killed 282 American service men and about 50 french soldiers trying to create peace in a civil war. this is a clash of civilizations, and Israel is on the front line. we who are part of the west need to win this war, for the world to move on.
Flotillas are so last month. Perhaps pro-Pals can strap bombs onto dolphins instead in the name of peace?
No! Absolutely not dolphins!
Israelis seem to be in slef-denial, that most powerful drug. Cast Lead, a gift that keeps giving. One would think Turks killed nine Israelis, not the other way around. This will not have a happy ending.
I think Turkey on purpose made sure the IHH flotillia creates a few dead to ensure political advantages in upcoming elections for Erdogan and to evenmore silence any critism on the treatment of the Kurds !
Israel is a joke now and every one knows it. not a word of theirs can be believed if they tell you the sky is blue i would tell them no its silver. Israel you have lied too much. now i Google Israel in the news and just laugh. ha hahaaahhahha
Israel you are hated change your ways.
... the purpose of the "flotillas": On one side Politicians like Erdogan/Assad/... and on the side criminal/political rackets like Hamas/Hizbullah/.... Both groups are under pressure in their "countries". And what do they? Right - they are looking for the good old scapegoat Jew/Israel. Nothing new under the sun. Business as usual for anti-Semites.
NO Apology, No compensation, and no return of teh ships. They were involoved in a terrorist act. Sell them for scrap or to the highest bidder. That would be proceeds of crime. For all three they should be able to get a few million. That will teqach the Turks a valuable lesson. Turjkey has some serious questions to answer about its involvment and she protests too much. Stuff the Turkey and erdogan too
After decades of grabbing other peoples' land, I guess stealing a few ship would seem quite normal. Short term thinking, blaming others, always the victim, relying on overwhelming military might, doing nothing wrong, isolating yourself more and more - nice people, the Israelis.
than the folks that surround them and want to take over the western world, where you live. hopefully they wont get long range rockets to target Oslo, Israel is on the front line of this war so is the USA and its NATO allies. so who fired the first rockets into Israel, burned down the Green houses and buildings in Gaza and slammed planes into the WTC in my city. answer those questions and you might want to defend yourself, family and way of life
Now that the pictures are out that show Gaza with luxury shopping mall, upscale restaurants and new hotel that looks like the Ritz Carlton, why do we need another flotilla? In fact the last one, the medicine sent...70% of which was past the expiration dates...according to the Palestinian doctors in Gaza, what's the point? Except for PR to make Israel look bad there is no point. The new swimming pool in Gaza also shows along with the other luxury stuff I guess there no shortage of cement either. So there is NO shortage of food, medicine, cement, but there are still shortages. Of what you ask? Freedom, no free speech, press, right to dissent, to even play music. So lets talk about that instead of the phony flotilla bringing mostly useless products in a silly attempt to attack Israel.
oh mark. your lack of empathy brings so many lulz. you're right--the presence of one mall means that the gazan people are living in the lap of luxury. never mind the fact that 2/3 of people IN gaza are living off UN aid and are below the poverty line. never mind the fact that the "expired medication" story was yet more bullshit from the idf. never mind the people who are dying due to lack of medical equipment. THEY HAVE A MALL, GUYS. IT'S ALL GOOD.
they could have opted to improve Gaza after Israel gave it back. they decided to burn down usable assets left behind. they chose rockets. a mall gives you choices, perhaps they will choose peace, productivity and the western way-i could have written American way, but didn't want to exaggerate.
~the western way~? what way is that? going into random muslim countries in the guise of "hunting terrorists" while killing thousands of innocent people? i think the palestinians will probably pass on that, as it hasn't worked out too well for them.
couldn't have anything to do with that "war" that killed thousands of innocents, could it? or that illegal blockade? the restriction of freedom of movement? the fact that 93% of water is polluted by debris and israel still isn't allowing equipment in to clean it? the tens of thousands of homes destroyed? the thousands held in jails without trials? no, of course not. the far more likely explanation is that i am a violent anti-semite!!!!!
40B? have any evidence to back that up?
just a thought... and spare me the BUT HAMAS!!!! bs, hamas has enough cement from egyptian tunnels as it is.
out of the bunkers made with the cement. of course some good old yankee 2000 pound j dams would also do the trick.
Hamas will use the cement to fortify itself so it can launch more missiles at Israel kindergartens. Do you think that we are stupid?
As HAMAS decided what entered Gaza through the tunnels, don't you think if they required concrete for military purposes they would have turned up one day at the entrance to a tunnel shoved the business end of an AK 47 in the tunnel owners face, and basically said today you will ship concrete? Your argument is illogical, disingenuous and shows the true face of Israel. It's not about HAMAS it's about collective punishment of a people for refusing to disappear.
it were a two-way street, but how would the Arabs react if a Jew posed as a Muslim and had sex with a Muslim girl? They'd probably cut off his family tree.
wrong thread, mate?
those are some pretty serious charges. if israel has evidence that they are involved then they should present it. the world has grown tired of israel's blabberings without any proof to back them up.
Do they have to present evidence to each and every journalist !?
they should present it publicly if they are going to make the claim in a public forum. seems pretty straightforward to me.
The left don´t care about facts or reason. it would be better to ignore them.
"However, IHH claims the list does include lawyers from 25 other countries, including the United States, Britain, Egypt and Indonesia."
Israel did promise in the wake of the Mavi Marmara PR disaster to allow more and a wider variety of goods into Gaza. Israel even promised to adhere to a published "prohibited" list. Gazans are still waiting. These flotillas wouldn't be still coming if Israel had kept its promises made, inter alia, to the United States and the European Union. C'mon Bibi, do something different. Keep a promise made by an Israeli Prime Minister, just for once for a change. The statement (promise) came from the Israeli PMO. Presumably you control what they say.
Where's that list, anyway? Israel said it would be made public, what, a month ago?
Mark, you know it ain't gonna happen ...........
There is one sailing from the US, too. They are collecting donations.
Maan publishes daily which crossings are open and what is allowed in. Maybe you should tell the Israeli government, stuff isn't making it.
tell us, how much cement and other building materials have been allowed into Gaza ?
please post a link to the list. thanks
Stop the ships inspect cargo and let them sail to Gaza. Israel for once in your life use your brains and escalate the situation.
Work to set up the docks and a customs zone in Gaza supervised by a UN team until peace has been finalised. It just makes sense.
I meant deescalate the situation lol.
along with the rockets
The last time the was an arrangment with the UN/EU to inspect goods (that Israel ACCEPTED), Hams just looked at them and they fled to Israel. That was it.
I think more people in the US are killed by bears each year than Israelis by rockets. What you really hate is the fact that the lowly, subhuman palestinians dare to fight back against their betters
Don't you mean Nadj?
if it is so dangerous why people still living there, only idiots will do that!!!
Around 4,000 people are killed each year in road accidents in the USA. That's more than the fatalities in the Twin Towers. So what have bears to do with rockets? You live in Sderot, right?
Stop trying to defence Israel ,The world know what is Israel.It has becomes a country of hatred on this Planet..No need to discuss