Israel considers giving legal status to two illegal West Bank outposts

and that's more than you can say of either Gaza or the W. bank. The pals lost it all and that's just the way it should be. The EU is threatening to cut off aid there. Amazing. No one can afford this tragedy, a lie that no one believes any longer, and will soon end their funding of terror in the name of a non existing 'state' palestine. Divine justice.

They "dismantle" a caravan in the illegal outpost of Elon Moreh and then "legalize" two illegal settlements. Yes, Israel, the world is a fool. Keep on playing these tricks on them.

ZD: "Labrada and Esther, it works both ways" No, it does not. Palestinians in the West Bank and in East Jerusalem are "protected persons" under international humanitarian law. Israelis (regardless of wether they are "Jewish" or "Arab Israelis") are "citizens of the occupying power". It Does Not Work Both Ways Because The Status Of Those Two Groups Is Different. The Palestinians are where they are because that is where they belong, and WHILE Israel is the occupying power its job is to protect those persons. That's why they are called "protected persons" i.e. to make that obligation crystal-clear. The Israelis are where they are because the occupying power is transferring them into occupied territory, and WHILE Israel is the occupying power that act is ILLEGAL.

http://www.un.org/Depts/Cartographic/map/profile/israel.pdf It bears repeating: After declaring sovereign status within stated borders, the new Israeli citizens forfeited the right settle carte blanche in the remainder of Palestine.

Not to worry - th government has "creative solutions" galore - and the courts are toothless tigers. Frankly, reading some of the sentences here, one has to hold on to keep from falling off the chair from laughing. Highly amused

Sylvie, I understand how the Palestinian Arabs in the Land of Israel might feel something for the land in which they live, just as you do, but they usually call it ard-al-Islam, or ard-al-Arab which puts Jews at a serious disadvatage, no? The Old Jewish Quarter in Hebron which dates back to the fourteenth century was emptied out in 1929. It became the Shuk after 1950. Any complaints in the civilized world for that injustice? To a certain extent that and other pogroms lead by Islamic extremists for whom Jews violate their sacred principle of ard-al- . . . is a Middle Eastern version of the Cossak who has been overtaken by the people he was used to abuse. I am not sure if we had a "Bargouti" he would be tried, sentenced, and placed in a Palestinian prison. Do I care about Palestinian Arabs? Yes, but I also believe in our Rabbis tell us not to be overly Righteous with people who have reputation for cruel and violent.

If Israel would actively start building without explaining every step of the way to the whole world, palestinian leadership would cooperate much more swiftly and with much more meaning. By building Israel would show that they are growing and populating the Land of Israel. For palestinians it would create a sense of urgency and they might change their practice of suicidal tendencies to something much more constructive and maybe mean what they say for a change.

Your history of Kosova is very innacurate. The descendants of Albanians were in the region long before the invasion of the Slavs. The monasteries and churches of the Serbs are very improtant to their history and that is true. Such sites must be respected and protected. Albanians are not only Muslim. Over 30% of the population is Christian, Catholic and Orthodox. As for your theory of Palestiniansbeing proxies of Arab armies, that is nonsense. The serbs who have commited unspeakable war crimes are hardly "peace loving" but then neither are those colonists who have stolen land in Palestine. There is no "Arab conquest" of Land of Israel. The world is trying to reach a just solution of two states. Ther "conquest" is of the Israelis of lands designated for the State of Palestine. Israel is simply loosing credibilty and has no future as a ghetto in the ME.

Netanyahu's sticking it to Obama. Where the sun don't shine.

You really write a lot of nonsense. Our government is engaged in land theft and ethnic cleansing. If any other country in the world were doing such despicable things you would, I'm sure, be outraged. Just because we're Jews doesn't make such acts kosher.

If you are considering Lebanon in you 57 sum, then you better make it 56 because Eretz Yisrael includes 95% of Lebanon. You would have been a great hero to the afrikaaners to suggest all the SA blacks to move to the other 53 African countries.

I will get a copy. Glad to see one more genuine peace seeker step up to the plate. I know the value of waking up every day and not having to wonder who and how many were slaughtered --on both sides in northern Ireland. That makes the scarifice of ceding the north to Britain worthwhile. We still hope to get it back through diplomatic efforts some day---in the meantime no one is being slaughtered---albeit, there are efforts by extremists on both sides to destroy the peace. They will not win. I hope you get the peace you seek.

Thanksfully, all Israelis are not as short sighted as the appropriately named "wolf" (Zev). People can forsee the future only when it collides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignorged when they are unwelcome- Orwell. Unfortunately, the future here with Leiberyahu is pretty dim as territory is consistenly chosen over peace. Thanks for you comments. I highly recommend Lords of the Land to arm yourself with detailed knowledge of the settlement nakba.

They will not leave they will stay in their lands. Peace and 2 states are better than being happy about useless settlements.

After agreeing to a "settlement freeze" riddled with exceptions, Israel is saying to the US and the international community: SHOVE IT!! WE DO WHAT WE WANT AND WE ARE ABOVE CRITICISM. The international community should react by cutting off all funds to Israel, boycotting their academic institutions, and preventing all products grown or manufactured in the occupied territories from entering US and European markets. It is really time to enact these boycotts on all levels.

that when it comes to serving justice (high court oders no less) on issues regarding settlements, there isn't enough manpower to enforce the law but the criminal demolition and confiscation of Palestinians' property has volunteers waiting in line, in addition to the military.

will need roads which, for cecurity reasons, can be used only by the Jews. To parphase an old saying: Apartheid was not built in a day.

Israel presents itself to the world as a secular democracy, where people of all religions have equal rights. But in reality, it?s just a theocracy that discriminates against anyone not Jewish, especially those who follow the religion of Islam.

"Granted, there are some restrictions on non-Jews in the Land of Israel, but in some secular nations people who are not nationals of that country have restrictions."Zev Davis You cannot call yourself a democracy and have such rules. You have no right to decide if they are Citizens or Nationals. you are Occupying them. It is the Israeli citizens who are the non Nationals/Citizens. It is they who are personna non gratis.

"As to you Labradas, as long as there is a RC majority, there will be some kind of tension, nothing to make the world news, but . . . as it was before Easter of 1917." Zev Davis Northern Ireland has a Protestant Majority, some 2/3 (they are not all Orangemen as not all Jews are Zionists). If you meant Southern Ireland---what tension are you referring too. What,s with the pre 1917 (I think you mean 1916). What has that to do with this except it was when Btitain Occupied all of Ireland. The truth is that there are cross border comittees working on such issues as Transport/Roads/hi tech infrastructure/trade etc. That is what comes from making peace. Try it.

and unfortunately a majority of Israelis. the left is dead and is lead by a man who calls himself a moderate. He is no better than those with whom he joined in pummelling Gaza or those he is now allied with, who are now planning to do it again. You are well aware who Israel,s true enemies are. They lie within. I have no problem with Israel retaining it,s Jewish "Nature", but it oppresses the minority in the process. The Protestants in Northern Ireland had the same goal in their desire to have "A protestant State for a Protestant People".(Part of their Charter). Esther, there is no will to make peace with the Palestinian people on the part of the GOI or a majority of Israelis. Lets face it--the two state solution is dead. You know what the alternative is--and the Palestinians are going nowhere.

Leftists brought not peace but war & destruction. They try to bring more destruction & must be stopped!

I fear your notions of what is ancestral is a little out of place. The Albanians entered Kossovo, which was part of Historic Serbia in 1358 as Moslems, at the behest of the Turks, who took over as their proxies. The Serbs never forgot, and after WWI it returned to the Serbs. When Yugoslavia fell apart, the Albanian Kossovars, as they were called claimed it for themselves, and . . . hence Kossovo. Dare you ask a Serb if such a country deserves to exist?! Even the most peace loving Serb will not give up the right of his people to that land. We were expelled from our land by the Byzantine Romans in 617 C.E.. Never, ever did we give up our hope, yes Virgina, Hatikvah. That Palestinian Arabs live here as descendants of the proxies of Arab armies from those is a fact and we have to deal with it, but they are conquerors, who, well . . . like the Kossovars. Call me a peace loving Serb, if you want, but I will never accept the Arab conquest of the Land of Israel.

Labradas and Esther, I the bad old days when Umma Islamiya was in charge, a Jew couldn't ride a horse, or build a house of prayer that was more prominent than a Mosque, and, he had to pay a special tax on account he didn't believe the Mohammed was the true prophet. Granted, there are some restrictions on non-Jews in the Land of Israel, but in some secular nations people who are not nationals of that country have restrictions. Don't know how it is, now in Switzerland, but they had strange laws about citizenship that kept generations of "Auslaender" from basic rights that were reserved for citizens. How can I be against my neighbor, the one who lives in apartment bloc the other side of the stairwell. I am not sure how well he accepts my presence as a Jew, in this Land of Israel, but we are, neighbors. As to you Labradas, as long as there is a RC majority, there will be some kind of tension, nothing to make the world news, but . . . as it was before Easter of 1917.

Labhras, I would not take that declaration too literally... what is actually true is that Israel is numerically and strategically a small nation, in a sea of Islamic entities, and therefore must be very strong indeed to prevail in this hostile neighborhood... that is a question of fully justified supreme defences... but in the process Israel need not necessarily trample the individual human rights of the Pals, both those who live among us, and those who aspire to live in their own State of Palestine... on the contrary, the stronger Israel is, the better it is able to appreciate the immense value of good neighborly relations with empowered, not humiliated Pals. (This response entirely relevant to Zev as well).

grow up! stop been the spoil brat nation citenzen The world gettting tired of people like you

... the settlers are concerned with vast illegal land aquisitions, either at bargain-prices or at no-price-at-all... sometimes they effect these so-called 'purchases', but mostly they depend on blatant requisitions condoned by the government... they are in no way interested in equal rights with West Bank Palestinian, who are the denizens who have lived there for hundreds of years cultivating ancestral properties... your irritation reveals the shallowness of your 'erudite' responses...

in 1948. Rhodes and 1967 are of no importance. The WB is occupied --so says the internationl court of Justice.As does the Israeli High Court of Justice. It refers to it as "held under Belligerent Occupation" ergo cannot be Israeli sovereign Territory, ergo all Israeli Citizens living there are illegal Settlers. That they choose to live in Jews only squats indicates just what they have in mind---An Arab Frei Greater Israel. Is that what you support. Do you respect the Laws of your state. Or not. if the Palestinians are willing to let Israel have land outside the 48 borders ---you are ahead of the game. Take the Irish example---make peace--we gave up Northern Ireland for peace. You are not giving up anything .

"Labradas, what do you know!" Zev Davis "Then again, a propos to that wasn`t Ulster Plantation stolen from the Irish Nation by the Crown in 1688?!" Zev Davis So what---does that make Israel,s theft of Palestinian land acceptable. "And, in spite of both the UK and the Republic of Ireland are in the EU," Zev Davis. So what---they are both independent States in Europe. "are the RCs of Eire that hot to have a few hundred thousand Orangemen as part of their body politic" Zev DAvis We would love to have them as part of our body politic--"A united Ireland".It is they who oppose it.All one million of them. We are not trying to show then who is boss or enforce the Catholic Nature of Ireland down their throats. "In the last little while Arab Christians moved up the the Jewish town" ZD Catholic town ---protestant town---we dont have such arrangements--we just have towns. Orangemen practiced that when they had power. Birds of a feather--huh Zev.

BTW--I respect your unrelenting tireless efforts to make peace---too bad you are in the minority in Israel. That said, my point is that Israel has had one agenda. Showing Arabs just who is boss. Read it here. "and... demonstrate state sovereignty to the Arab population more than any other settlement operation." Forman claims Upper Nazareth was meant to address the challenge perceived as emanating from the all-Arab city of Nazareth, and the goal was to build a neighborhood that would overpower Nazareth numerically, economically, and politically. Zev Davis is one such anti peace individual.He wants it all. Best wishes to you Esther---you earn them.

... however, not my field of expertise... ... heart-warming that some Nazareth Arabs appreciate Jewish-Israeli lifestyle... gives one hope for the future... ... there are Jewish businesses in Arab-Nazereth... probably some Jews live there as well... all the better...

If it is kosher for Jews and Arabs to live together in the Gallilee, in Natzrat 'Illit and in Acco and that is hunky dory, and the "intermingling" is so wonderful, what makes you think that Arabs and Jews intermingle in Judea and Samara while you rant about the occupation, calling for the Jews who live there to leave for Arabs to create a Judenrein. There are extremists on both sides who are lookin' out for number one, so they can take over. Most of the Jews, and Arabs are more interested in living in peace, while youse guys in Tel Aviv "chep" away in Kikar Rabin.

It clearly defines, You assume that the lines dividing the proposed Jewish State that was supposed to exist beside the proposed Arab State was written in stone. Trouble is that the stone was shattered by the Arab armies that promised the Palestinian Arabs that there would not be any Jewish State. A year later at Rhodes a new set of lines were drawn on a revised map. Then in 1967, then came 1981, and . . . one hopes there will be peace through negotiations. As Churchill once said "Le blah blah est preferez a la guerre"

As they say here, "Good Morning Elijah", when Natzrat 'Illit was organized there was an Arab neighborhood atop a hillock included as part of the city limits. Over the years a few more Arab families have come to the town. It's an issue for some Jews, others accept the Arab fact. In the last little while Arab Christians moved up the the Jewish town on account of the friction between them and Moslems, so . . . Then again, a propos to that wasn't Ulster Plantation stolen from the Irish Nation by the Crown in 1688?! And, in spite of both the UK and the Republic of Ireland are in the EU, are the RCs of Eire that hot to have a few hundred thousand Orangemen as part of their body politic

... establish centers of Jewish-Israeli life-style in the Galilee... beside or intermingling with Arab-Israeli population centers... on the contrary, the hope is for developing amity and mutuality between the communities... it may take time, but it is already happening (with or without mishaps, as is natural)... the Galilee could be a really fine example of mutuality between Jewish and Arab-Israeli populations... there is enough fine arable land for both communities... the agitating West Bank settlers, may take notice of that... it would be a blessing for all...

"There`s no such thing as palestinian land, it`s all Eretz Yisrael." A) It's 'P'alestinian B) The Jewish People's Council declared Sovereignty over the boundaries recommended by res 181. No more, no less. C) No territory has ever been legally annexed to Israel. Letter From the Agent of the Provisional Government of Israel to the President of the United States, May 15, 1948 ?MY DEAR MR. PRESIDENT: I have the honor to notify you that the state of Israel has been proclaimed as an independent republic within frontiers approved by the General Assembly of the United Nations in its Resolution of November 29, 1947, and that a provisional government has been charged to assume the rights and duties of government for preserving law and order within the boundaries of Israel, for defending the state against external aggression, and for discharging the obligations of Israel to the other nations of the world in accordance with international law.

Do you have your Jewish state (or two states - if it is include USA)? Yes, you do! So, pack your luggage and get out from rest of the World. Don't like it you? Is it "antisemitism"? Oh noooo, remember you, what you wrote as first!

or gained through false representation or just plain dishonesty. How does it feel looking in the mirror knowing you are basucally a thief and a supporter of agression and oppression not to mention war crimes. Read this for a glimpse into how your "outpost got started. "According to historian Geremy Forman, an important aim of Upper Nazareth was to ensure Jewish sovereignty in the region. The director of the IDF Planning Department, Yuval Ne'eman, stated that the new town would "safeguard the Jewish character of the Galilee as a whole, and... demonstrate state sovereignty to the Arab population more than any other settlement operation." Forman claims Upper Nazareth was meant to address the challenge perceived as emanating from the all-Arab city of Nazareth, and the goal was to build a neighborhood that would overpower Nazareth numerically, economically, and politically. [4] Initially the settlement was referred to as the "Jewish neighborhood" of Nazareth, then as Kiryat Natzeret. The name Nazareth Illit was adopted in 1958. In 1960 the part within the municipal boundaries of Nazareth was excised from Nazareth, and the following year Nazareth Illit was endowed with the municipal status of local council.[5]

... by all means Jews should be permitted to purchase lands wherever they are offered for sale... but that does not confer on the purchased land State of Israel autonomy... Jews/Israelis have snapped up real estate in various european countries and elsewhere, but it would be ridiculous to claim that as an extention of sovreign Israel... Jewish settlement on Pal territory should officially be in keeping with Pal jurisdiction... arrange for visas or laissez-faires or Pal passports...

Israel undertook to demolish all outposts built since 2003. These two were built since 2003. Only in Israel would they still be standing and the state skating around to make them 'legal' under Israel's illegal laws. This is a nation that more often than not breaks its word and agreements, breaks international law, lies to its allies, bullies its neighbours, demolishes people's homes and steals their land. What a basketcase rogue state Israel has turned into.

Tel Aviv was acquired when the nascent Jewish homeland had almost nothing to call-its-own... no comparison whatsoever with today's voracious on-going settler activity, when Israel is already a sovreign state, over half a century old, with wide expanses of its own legal territory in the Galilee and the Negev lying fallow in dire need of hityashvut... current settler activity is daylight robbery, totally unnecessary from the national existential point of view... moreover, it fatally compromises our relationship with our immediate neighbors, the Palestinians, with whom we ostensibly want to live in peace and amity... in fact we make a complete travesty of peace-shmeace by bending to the fatal will of the settlement-industry...

....in the end, we all wanna grow till we become (and act like) adults, so why not Israel..??? :)

that "Once owned by Jews" does not imply "under the sovereignty of the state of Israel".

If you're an Arab you can have your home destroyed, if you're a Jew you're OK.

what is yours and what is not....you area is the one granted by the UN and no other

Tel Aviv began as land that was purchased by Russian Jewish immgrants through a leading Sephardic real estate broker. According to the current Palestinian Arab criteria, that would be against their laws. So, that makes Tel Aviv "occupied territory" every bit as much as the Gush Etzion bloc or Emmanuel. If, indeed, there are places in Judea and Samaria that built on State Land and were authorized by the government, they are legal. Of course, the land that was purchased by Jews from Palestinian Arabs, any land, even the tracts that were purchased before, and after Mandate are occupied from a Palestinian Arab perspective, and therefore, illegal. If the above is true, what is Tabu, as in an orderly land registry is "Taboo" to the Palestinian movement, so if a Jew bought it, well . . .

Authorizing buildings retroactively that have been built without a permit is common practise in Israel. Please note that I am not talking about settlers houses or any comparison with Arab building. I have worked for a company, quite recently, where ALL structures were built, as a policy, before the authorities were notified. All legal status issues were solved afterwards and none of them were denied. So what is the fuss?

It is crazy and funny..how I srael handling the situation. The steal the land and categorized which part of the stolen propert is legal or not legal. The thief in no way has the right to legalize his stolen property. The world knows that ALL SETTELLEMENT INCLUDING OUTPOST ARE ELLEGAL .....SO STOP FOOLING YOURSELF OR THE WORLD

Seems like a really smart thing to do. Reward the settlers intransigence with a couple of brandnew 'legal' settlements. Great thinking.

Not much difference between Israel's and Mugabe's flaunting of the law with regard to land grabbing, etc. Shame on you all for not protesting such behaviour.

Israel is a rogue state.

Reality: there are no facts on the ground, just temporary illegal Israeli settlements,

You are right, Chris #5. It is plain to see the legality (ie the lack of such) of such a move. I think, it is only designed as a bone for the media and to strenghten Israels position. What you will hear later: "we had to give up sooo much already, we cannot give up any more. We didnt even get all of our settlements legalized". It`s crap, man. Don`t fall for it.

... does anyone doubt the direction of Bibi's government, in which the 'head-of-Labor' is a twinkling star...?!

If the state of Israel "gives legal status" to these settlements, that appears on the face of it just to change the status of the settlements. The state of Israel gives "status" to them, without losing anything itself. But, in fact, since most of the world interprets international law as saying that these settlements are illegal (i.e. they ARE illegal, since interpretation of the law by authoritative bodies decides what the law IS), then the state of Israel has lowered its own legitimacy. Quite unnecessary, and avoidable. Why go down this road, when the ultimate result is clear to see? Whether in ten years of a hundred, intransigence is doomed.

there are laws above you which you signed onto when you joined the UN which is all the legitamacy you have

What a travesty to justice. We are supposed to be the holy people who represent G-d. Justice needs to extend especially to the alien resident within our lands. The Torah is very clear on this, there is no ambiguity. What a shame on us as a people. Why not teach the people in Judea and Samaria that having a state whose nature is Jewish means the ultimate in Justice, Mercy and Kindness. If we did this than peoples of every place in this corrupt world would ask the nature of their state to be Jewish as well.

What a travesty to justice. We are supposed to be the holy people who represent G-d. Justice needs to extend especially to the alien resident within our lands. The Torah is very clear on this, there is no ambiguity. What a shame on us as a people. Why not teach the people in Judea and Samaria that having a state whose nature is Jewish means the ultimate in Justice, Mercy and Kindness. If we did this than peoples of every place in this corrupt world would ask the nature of their state to be Jewish as well.

There's no such thing as palestinian land, it's all Eretz Yisrael. Let the Arabs live in peace and happiness in any of their 57 Moslem nations, and leave us the Land of Israel.

This surely will convince the Palestinians that Israel intends to make a good will effort to make peace. Why not just admit you want it all and that any Palestinian thinking is without hope. The best they can hope for is benevolent dictatorship with no right to self-determination and no property rights of any permanence. When Abbas dies of old age, who will Netanyahu appoint to replace him? Maybe Bibi's brother-in-law would accept the job of viceroy.