Israel building Jewish homes with one hand, destroying Arab homes with the other

It was building on land that didn't belong to those that occupied it illegally, not just a matter of paying bills I don't know where you live, nor do I care, but I'm fairly certain you can't anywhere you damn please without paying for the ground you're building and, not obtaining permits because your building was illegal Hooking up to the utilites was also illegal because there weren't any permits in the first place

"The questions still remain: Were the Arab homes legal ... ?" (ben jabo) The RIGHT question to ask still remain: Why are so many Arab homes built illegally? The answer is obvious to anyone with eyes to see and ears to hear. "The Interior Ministry and the Jerusalem municipality have not issued building permits in East Jerusalem since 1967." in "Illegally built Arab homes in E. Jerusalem to get water service" by Jonathan Lis, Haaretz, Nov 04, 2008. www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1034147.html ben jabo, the son who does not know how to ask [the right] questions.

Am i on a jewish forum or a messianic/chrstian one? So much evangelizing, quoting new testament. The only thing you're missing is an alter call! Stay on topic. Preach the gospel in church, not here!

International law is dust in the wind, especially if it is being interpreted and enforced by the dictatorships in the UN. Where was international law when people started slaughtering each other in the former Yugoslavia? In Rwanda? In Darfur? In the Middle East? When the Two Towers were blown up, they were occupied by liberals and conservatives of many different countries. "Palestinians" danced with joy and elation at the destruction. Israel knows how this is also. Indeed, Israel lives next to the terrorists. What "Palestinian" appeasers fail to understand is that "Palestinians" hate liberal leftist Americans as much as they hate conservative rightist Americans. That is why they chant Death to America. That is why they burn and stomp on our flag. Speak softly and carry a big stick. You will go far.

The Lord giveth; the Lord taketh away; Blessed be the name of the Lord. And what does the Lord require of you, O man, but that you should do justice, love kindness, and walk humbly with your God. Aye! there's the rub! Humility and chuzpah just don't mix. Not even in Israel. Baruch atta adonai elohenu, melek ha olam ....

from building. The alternative is to charge Israel 2/3 of their income from the homes till Palestine becomes a state. Afterward, collect 100% of the rent for the priviledge of living there. Foreigners, don't you know, Visas, passports, all that stuff. Of course if they swear allegiance to the Palestinian State, they just might be regarded as citizens. Would sharia law insist that they become Muslims?

There are millions of Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, Jews, Sikhs and Christians all over the world who have become naturalised citizens of the nations they consider themselves part of....all of them are God's chosen - the Jews are no different or more special than anyone else....many Jews are not genetically connected so closely to Palestine anyway but are converts - the religious arguments for the continued military occupation, attrition of the Arab population and purloining of vital resources is neither morally or legally justified. The ideologues, extremists, middle of the road sheep and monied interests who perpetuate the inhumanity and hypocritical denial of rights to the Palestinians whilst emphasizing their own superior spirituality, divine right to land and position in the world (and their right to make fortunes out of the illegal annexations of the West Bank) increasingly bring the state of Israel to moral bankruptcy in the eyes of most of the world. It stinks!

"while official Israel declares far and wide that it is `seeking peace`..." This is why it has become morally unacceptable to support Israel today. It is not that the Israelis are at fault but their rogue officials They give Jews abad name today around the world and I am glad to see American Jews refused to sign on to their deals and the widow refused to have her husband's name associated it. It shows the moral fabric of Judaism is still good. But I am still very much ashamed to see an American Representative apart of the crowd there. It shows how corrupt some in the US House are. They are far from being honorable members in my book. Nonetheless, Thanks again. Dutch

You?re surely not suggesting that the right and proper penalty for the non-payment of utility bills is for the demolition of someone?s home. Just in case this is, actually your view, would you support a universal application of it? Sh.

If there was building for Arabs this would not be nearly as controversial--there is not. It would be easy to fix. It is not getting fixed. Hard to believe it is conincidence.

"The article forgot to mention that every house destroyed was built illegally and went through the court system." The Israeli Civil courts have no jurisdiction in non-Israeli territories. "Illegal is illegal" Er...yes. It is illegal for an occupying power to institute it's own civil law in territories that are not it's own. "Also nothing wrong with Jews building on Jewish land" Quite, but they're Israeli Jews and it ISN'T Israeli territory! " just as Arabs build all over israel" If they're civilians of Israel.

"Were the Arab homes legal, and were they hooked up to public utilities without paying for them, which would be theft of services by any definition" Would Israeli homes in the same circumstances be demolished?

In both cases we can - and should - discuss and agree/disagree on ethical standards, political wisdom and their ramifications. However, let me point out that purely from the legal point of view no laws were broken: (1) The land on which the building has started was bought (for signifacant sums of money) from the previous palestinian owners of the land. All building permits were obtained. This makes the building process legal. If the same settlers would do the same in any other country, say, Italy or Alaska, they could proceed without any problems. (2) Process of obtaining building permits in Israel is complicated, expensive and lengthy for anybody, not only Arabs. It takes 2-3 years and a significant spending on an architect and a lawyer to obtain permits even in a place with ready infrastructure. An illegal building in Haifa, Netania, or any other city will be demolished no matter whether the owner is Arab or Jewish.

BJ: "Were the Arab homes legal, and were they hooked up to public utilities without paying for them, which would be theft of services by any definition" The territory is "occupied", and Israel is the "occupying power". That makes these Arabs "protected persons" under int'l law, and what they are supposed to be protected FROM is the abuse of power by that occupier. BEN, maaaaaate, the occupying power is OBLIGED by int'l law to provide for the needs of these "protected persons", and if that occupier abuses it authority and makes it impossible for them to gain access to public utilies by any other means than by jury-rigging a connection for themselves THEN THE PARTY THAT IS AT FAULT IS THE OCCUPIER, NOT THE OCCUPIED. The IDF is supposed to be "the most moral army in the world", BEN, not a feudal warlord. These people are supposed to be under the PROTECTION of that army, BEN, not at its mercy. You really are that clueless, are you?

... while official Israel declares far and wide that it is 'seeking peace'...

What is going on in Jerusalem must give any decent person heart-ache. Why can we not treat our fellowcitizens right??. How can we evict a family, that has lived for decades in his home, and then move a religious family into that same house. Is this according to jewish ethics??? Can this be approved by our rabbis??? What has happened to the jewish tradition that I was brought up on : To respect your fellow human being, to love and protect the stranger among us. And since when is it right to let foreign investors dictate our policies. This is not the country Ben Gurion envisioned when the declaration of independence was written.

The fact that no building permit was issued, makes the construction illegal, no matter how you look at it. Speaking about "half truths" and "lies" , I'm sure you are aware that Jewish illegal construction is also demolished. The reason for a 'permit', or one of the reasons for a permit is to take into consideration the city;s future plans for other construction, like gas lines, electric lines, sewer lines,railways, etc., that we are not aware of. Illegal construction for private use, houses, can hinder or make such construction impossible, requiring demolishing the 'illegal' construction in the future when such plans can be implemented.

Of all these permits not all were for new homes: Some were for just an extension to the existing house and one was for repair of the retaining wall of the cemetery. In all remaining cases, the authority pocketed the money for the permit and refused the permit.

" The Jerusalem Municipality is plowing ahead with plans for construction of more than 5,000 housing units in Arab neighborhoods. These include the following: * A master plan for the Tel Adasa neighborhood in northern Jerusalem, where 2,000 new housing units are planned. * A master plan for the Arab a-Sawahara area for a new housing compound with 2,500 units that is currently being prepared for discussion at the local council and district council levels. * A master plan for the Dir el-Amud and Al-Muntar areas in Beit Safafa in southeastern Jerusalem, currently in advanced planning stages. * A construction plan for 172 housing units and public buildings at the Jabal Mukabar neighborhood, which has completed the mandatory waiting period and will soon come up for additional discussion and approval in the district council."

When you speak of destroying 'illegal' Arab built homes, I presume you are not totally blind to the fact that it is nigh on impossible to get permission to build in East Jerusalem-IF YOU'RE AN ARAB? Out of the 70 thousand dunam of East Jerusalem annexed by Israel in June 1967, Arabs may only build on 9,000 dunam after various restrictions were imposed. For most of the 9000 dunams on which it is *theoretically* permitted to build, an inhabitant can't get a permit because there are no water-sewage or road infrastructures, in another area, building can't begin until there is a detailed plan including incorporation and allocation, in yet another area building was stopped until the integration of planning policy, or until final permission for the eastern ring road could be granted, and so on and so forth, there is no end to imaginative excuses. In effect it is almost impossible. Meanwhile if one is Jewish, well you get the picture. It is often said that a half truth is worse than a lie Mr Zang. 'That a lie which is half a truth is ever the blackest of lies, That a lie which is all a lie may be met and fought with outright, But a lie which is part a truth is a harder matter to fight' Tennyson.

Imagine this scanario: If I were to fly over to the US tomorrow, go to the state of New York and find a piece of land once possibly owned by my ancestors hundreds of years ago. If I then asked the people who now live there to leave their property and land because of this fact, they would laugh me out of their own houses. If I put up more of a fight and suggested a certain biblical text stated that the land belongs to me and my people, I would propably be branded insane. Why is it then that Israel gets away with such rediculous actions?? They still use their victim status to justify their insane actions. The houses of some of the Palestinian people are termed "illegal" because the cost of receiving such a permit to build is so expensive that the average person cannot afford it by any means. Even if one applies for a building permit, they are very often not granted and the money is lost. Israeli permits cost much much less. As always-different laws for different persons

Actually Ben, I know the guys who had their houses knocked down. Yes they were built illegally - but have you ever tried getting a permit as an Arab in east Jerusalem? His neighbour has been trying to get permission for 15 years. As far as hooked up to the public utilities - er, where on earth did you get that from? All the homes in Al Bustan pay their bills (I've seen them), and furthermore, pay their council tax - on the very properties you say are illegal. Considering there has been no street lighting, rubbish collection, bus services, childerns groups or any other kind of municipal investment in the area, then that just means that Jerusalem council is charging them - exorbitantly, for the price of demolishing their own home. If you really want to offer an unpredudiced opinion, why don't you talk to the council, and then go and talk to the families. It's called both sides of the argument. And in this instance, Jerusalem council and the government behind them are firmly in the wrong.

This headline is very misleading. It has to be emphasized that the Arab homes destroyed were built illegally, and the building of the 'Jewish homes' is done with the sanction of the government. On the other hand, I am very against allowing non-citizens, living abroad to build homes 'for investment'.

I know who the Bad Guys are.

It intends to go on destroying and building homes in Jerusalem with one hand and eventually to consent to "freezing settlements" in the West Bank not including otef Yerushalayim for a limited amount of time with the other. A more correct headline would be: Israel destroying Arab homes and building Jewish homes in Jerusalem with one hand and limiting settlement in the West Bank with the other.

Were the Arab homes legal, and were they hooked up to public utilities without paying for them, which would be theft of services by any definition

The article forgot to mention that every house destroyed was built illegally and went through the court system for years before the demolition. In other countries it wouldn't take so many years. Illegal is illegal. Also nothing wrong with Jews building on Jewish land just as Arabs build all over israel.

And thats right, israel wants peace, how can one nation blatanly lie so bad.

Good!!!

"MK Danny Danon (Likud) said that Jerusalem will never be a part of negotiations with the Palestinians. He called Barack Obama "naive" and said the U.S. president still does not seem to understand who are the good guys and who are the bad guys in the conflict". Danny Danon better sell milk, not politics. The Palestinians will never give up on East Jerusalem. Your choice is either a Palestinian state with East Jerusalem as its Capital, or Greater Israel with Equal rights for Palestinians. By the way, Obama isn't naive, and nows well what servers the American interests. I hope he will knows who are the real good guys in this conflict.

I was always taught that theft was a sin - and illegal.

Likud/Bibi are accomplishing what the Arabs couldn't: the destructionof Israel as a democratic and Jewish state. Each new settlement is another nail in its coffin. What will followi s either South African apartheid or a Belgian bi-national state. MAzel tov

Thou shall not revile the gods,nor curse the ruler of thy people::Then said Paul,I wist not,brethren,that he was the high priest:for it is writen,Thou shalt not speack evil of the ruler of thy people[high preast Aninias}

"Addressing the ceremony, MK Danny Danon (Likud) said that Jerusalem will never be a part of negotiations with the Palestinians. He called Barack Obama "naive" and said the U.S. president still does not seem to understand who are the good guys and who are the bad guys in the conflict." Obama knows full well. So does Mitchell. And you wonder why Palestinians don't believe you have a single iota of good faith? When was the last time any Likudnik Minister told the truth to any American President?