IDF to release new findings defending Gaza war strike

Why are you posting me with a Mary Robinson quote about the UNHRCs original remit[changed at the insistence of Goldstone] when I posted you on a different matter entirely, namely the nature of Goldstones questioning of witnesses which you had claimed in your post were conducted whilst surrounded by Hamas operatives? Meo, are you having trouble remembering what you said. Take some gingko then re read your #52: "Goldstone talking to eyewitnesses who "saw it". Hilarious...when we know that Goldstone people were surrounded by Hamas murderers ... " Meo #52 I responded to that remark with a specific refutation from Goldstone on THAT VERY ISSUE that YOU raised. Here again for forgetful Meo: "there was no Hamas presence anywhere near the vicinity of where we saw people. There were malicious statements to the effect that they were, but I can give you every assurance that it didn`t happen. And I can assure you that if it did happen, I wouldn`t have been prepared to continue to operate under those situations. I would have insisted that they leave. And if I couldn`t achieve that, I would have abandoned the investigation." Judge Richard Goldstone Given with references, on #63. Even that quote [Robinson] appears outdated, seeing as Goldstone secured a completely different resolution to the original one Robinson appears to be referring to. Is that it then? Truly hilarious! Diversionary tactics alert!!! The reason you cannot provide any credible information that Hamas were present whilst individual witnesses were questioned is because you do not have any. However if you go back to where you dredged up what Goldstone refers to as "malicious statements to the effect that they were" you will likely find them in the credulous and disreputable places I suggest in #63.

Why are you posting me with a Mary Robinson quote about the UNHRCs original remit[changed at the insistence of Goldstone] when I posted you on a different matter entirely, namely the nature of Goldstones questioning of witnesses which you had claimed in your post were conducted whilst surrounded by Hamas operatives? Meo, are you having trouble remembering what you said. Take some gingko then re read your #52: "Goldstone talking to eyewitnesses who "saw it". Hilarious...when we know that Goldstone people were surrounded by Hamas murderers ... " Meo #52 I responded to that remark with a specific refutation from Goldstone on THAT VERY ISSUE that YOU raised. Here again for forgetful Meo: "there was no Hamas presence anywhere near the vicinity of where we saw people. There were malicious statements to the effect that they were, but I can give you every assurance that it didn`t happen. And I can assure you that if it did happen, I wouldn`t have been prepared to continue to operate under those situations. I would have insisted that they leave. And if I couldn`t achieve that, I would have abandoned the investigation." Judge Richard Goldstone Given with references, on #63. Even that quote [Robinson] appears outdated, seeing as Goldstone secured a completely different resolution to the original one Robinson appears to be referring to. Is that it then? Truly hilarious! Diversionary tactics alert!!! The reason you cannot provide any credible information that Hamas were present whilst individual witnesses were questioned is because you do not have any. However if you go back to where you dredged up what Goldstone refers to as "malicious statements to the effect that they were" you will likely find them in the credulous and disreputable places I suggest in #63.

"Yet five internal army panels set up by Chief of Staff Gabi Ashkenazi to investigate the IDF's actions during Cast Lead initially said there was no evidence that Israel had attacked the site at all." - Haaretz "There was a horrific attack on a mosque (Maqadmah Mosque) when people were at prayer, killing and wounding a great many people when a missile discharged tungsten micro-shrapnel; the Israelis deny ever firing it but there is nobody else on earth that could or did do it... First of all they(Hamas) didn't impede the public inquiries we instituted in Gaza. They didn't intimidate. They met us twice themselves. We had major conferences with all of their functionaries. It was in everyone's interest in Gaza to facilitate our enquiries, Hamas included. This was because the military actions were so punitive on the civilian population...However, I have to be honest and say that we would probably have found it difficult to get people to queue up and give us information about Hamas' misbehaviour within Gaza". - Col. Travers of the Goldstone team

Come on Roo,you won't try to silence us with scary Fox conspiracy theory BS every time you don't like news or are unable to refute it. It is boring to see you pulling out of the closet Fox,Camera,Murdoch ghost every time you want to discredit news that are undermining credibility of your heroes,who do you want to impress with this BS now? Me? "Come on Meo, tell me it was Glen Beck instead." Why not if that makes you happy? it was Glen Beck,Roo.Happy now? Mary Robinson: "Unfortunately, the Human Rights Council passed a resolution seeking a fact-finding mission to only look at what Israel had done, and I don?t think that?s a human rights approach." Did she say that?Did she refuse the post or it will be easier to shelve it as another Fox conspiracy Roo?

Why don't they drop the subject, no-one is really interested any more. Hamas had it bad during 'Cast Lead' we all know that and today there are signs of trouble brewing in Gaza itself.

Quit pussyfooting around. Nobody cares about Jews, dead or alive. let alone 'Jewish morality'. If Israel wants to succeed kill every one of those murderous muslims by the millions, not by the tens or hundreds. There will be no more complaining than there is now, but there will be more awe. Every muslim that you save is another enemy who will to attack you, kill you, rape your daughters and wives and sodomize your sons. Screw the 'liberal' west's false morality that condones the murder of Jews but condemns the killing of the murderers of Jews. they won't shut up no matter what Israel does. They will continue to suck the Jews blood and sweat by any and all means possible--like they have for 2000 years.

Israel struck at Gaza in late 2008, in the final months of the Olmert regime. What were the goals of the attack? 1. We know now that the IDF avoided direct engagement with Hamas forces in order to minimize Israeli casualties. 2. We also know that Defense Minister Barak wanted to end the operation after a few days, but Olmert insisted on its continuation for weeks. It appears therefore that the Israeli goal was to punish Hamas for the Katyusha attacks on Sderot and deter them from repeating the act. There was no goal of destroying the military capability of Hamas, for this cannot be done without actual confrontation and even occupation. 3. Additional support comes from analogy with Olmert`s actions in Lebanon. No realistic goals announced but destruction. When there is a goal, the operation stops when the goal is achieved, But there was no realistic goal and the IDF had to keep on with destruction, mostly civilian assets, and this is a war-crime. "Where there is no vision the people go wild" (not "perish").

"when we know that Goldstone people were surrounded by Hamas murderers who have reputation to torture,blow kneecaps or throw own people from rooftops." Jasper "when we know" What Meo claims to know, he simply makes up or borrows from Fox News. "We chose incidents, 36 out of as I say, could have been hundreds. But we chose the people we wanted to see, and certainly, there was no Hamas presence anywhere near the vicinity of where we saw people. There were malicious statements to the effect that they were, but I can give you every assurance that it didn't happen. And I can assure you that if it did happen, I wouldn't have been prepared to continue to operate under those situations. I would have insisted that they leave. And if I couldn't achieve that, I would have abandoned the investigation." Judge Richard Goldstone http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/10232009/transcript1.html Come on Meo, tell me it was Glen Beck instead.

Israeli spokesmen for the army, government, etc. seem to defy every logical thing ever. I really am starting to hate them, because it's almost like they intentionally do everything wrong

http://www.labourlist.org/speechless-in-gaza-bob-marshall-andrews

Monte Castelo and Monte Cassino are studied every year in all details in the Brazilian War College I attended...The germans under kesserling ocupied all the mountain tops along their defensive line.It was a tough nut for the Vlll under McClark to crack...The germans were there before the bombings and you right.the rubble actualy helped them defend the positions.The exactly same way the hamas entrenched in the rubble...The best way to disloge defenders from the rubble is flame throwers...IMAGINE THE OUTCRY IF THE ISRAELIS WOULD USE FLAMETHROWERS LIKE THE RED ARMY DID IN berlin AND THE AMERICANS DID ALL THE TIME AGAINT THE JAPANESE ON THE PACIFIC ISLANDS...

The Iranian government is expected to defend against baseless accusations, and nothing it says or does satisfies the anti-Persian crowd. Of course, seeing as Goldstone recorded some physical evidence, and now the IDF is saying that he and the Palestinians were right all along in this particular case (after a year of saying it didn't do it, it is now saying it did it, but it was justified. Not an unusual path for a guilty party under questioning to take), the Goldstone report is hardly 'baseless'.

Yes I agree, a 'a little truth' in the numbers would be nice. Shall we start by correcting yours? "Any Gazan killed who is under 21 ...I wonder what the evaluation of Cast Lead would be if a little truth was used in the numbers." Jasper Israel asserts that only children below the age of sixteen qualify as such, whereas the accepted international age for children is under eighteen. The age considered as the definition of a child in accordance with the Geneva Convention and UN Convention on the Rights of the Child. Which the US remains uniquely opposed to. "As of November 2009, 194 countries have ratified, accepted, or acceded to it (some with stated reservations or interpretations) including every member of the United Nations except Somalia and the United States.Somalia has announced that it would shortly do so." wikipedia.

"The more the story changes, the more the IDF appears suspect." - Logios Eloquently put. The ever changing obfuscation only serves to impeach the IDF. The problem confronting the IDF is that despite it's censorship of the Israeli press at the time, (which is evidence in a fashion,) it was quite forthcoming with information which proves many of the Goldstone allegations. Thus it's previous investigations were self-impeached. Until it holds an open investigation intended to produce an honest results rather than further dissembling the IDF will continue to discredit itself without ultimately defending the men who created the strategy and promoted the war. Honesty is usually the best policy, especially when one was eager to supply "news" which proves much of what you now claim is untrue. Get clean and let the politicians bear the brunt of their orders and actions.

"Goldstone talking to eyewitnesses who "saw it".Hilarious" - Meo The Goldstone investigation was conducted with open hearings. Israel refused to participate. Those are the facts 'Meo.' Goldstone and now the UN have asked Israel AND Hamas to hold open investigations of their own. So far both have not. Both Israel and Hamas act like they have something to hide while Goldstone hid nothing.

Yes I agree, a 'a little truth' in the numbers would be nice. Shall we start by correcting yours? "Any Gazan killed who is under 21 ...I wonder what the evaluation of Cast Lead would be if a little truth was used in the numbers." Jasper Israel asserts that only children below the age of sixteen qualify as such, whereas the accepted international age for children is under eighteen. The age considered as the definition of a child in accordance with the Geneva Convention and UN Convention on the Rights of the Child.

There is no doubt that some are and some have already been prosecuted and some more will follow. The US doesn't claim to be super moral nor do we turn from our own actions. And we've allowed some high level criminals to walk, too.

Even if this final version of the IDF is correct (which we don't really know, the changing story indicates what is well known: The IDF investigating itself, like every organization investigating itself, is likely to result in a whitewash. From IDF history we know that unless a victim is Israeli or foreigner, there is nothing reliable that comes out a case where somebody was killed by the IDF. It's a whitewash on top of whitewash. A Committee of Investigation, headed by a judge and provided for by Israeli law, is the way to go in order to find out what happened. Netanyahu supports this (because he was not involved in the Gaza war), But the Defense Minister (Barak) and the army chief (Ashkenazi) oppose. (They led the war.) They should consider if it is better to be investigated by an Israeli commission or by the Hague prosecutor.

when we know that Goldstone people were surrounded by Hamas murderers who have reputation to torture,blow kneecaps or throw own people from rooftops. But since people from Goldstone crew knew even before they arrived to Gaza that Israel committed war crimes and that Hamas fired something like two or three qassams before the war started,I bet that Gaza eyewitnesses were not really important for Goldstone findings anyway. Funny to see all his supporters with heads burried in the sand vawing their posteriors to keep balance.This week is anti-apartheid...how about to declare next week a rainbow week?

Because we all know how good the "most moral army" in the world is at investigating itself.

Even if this final version of the IDF is correct (which we don't really know, the changing story indicates what is well known: The IDF investigating itself, like every organization investigating itself, is likely to result in a whitewash. From IDF history we know that unless a victim is Israeli or foreigner, there is nothing reliable that comes out a case where somebody was killed by the IDF. It's a whitewash on top of whitewash. A Committee of Investigation, headed by a judge and provided for by Israeli law, is the way to go in order to find out what happened. Netanyahu supports this (because he was not involved in the Gaza war), But the Defense Minister (Barak) and the army chief (Ashkenazi) oppose. (They led the war.) They should consider if it is better to be investigated by an Israeli commission or by the Hague prosecutor.

Check your history. Germans did not occupy Monte Cassino until after it was bombed and then the rubble made a superb defensive position.

... "it usually results in people coming to the conclusion that much more is being hidden than actually was."

... the findings of the Goldstone's report... an over-the-board and overboard denial, no credible denials or explanations or justifications were offered for the horrendous destruction that was wrought... ...now, as a sort of obligatory after-thought, explanations are eking out, including ofcourse the more detailed but belated Barak report... I merely decried the tardiness...

to the activities of the usa in iraq, pakistan and afghanistan ?? it seems that the us hasnt realised thta muslims might be human ???? can you both spell hypocrisy ?

Even if this final version of the IDF is correct (which we don't really know, the changing story indicates what is well known: The IDF investigating itself, like every organization investigating itself, is likely to result in a whitewash. From IDF history we know that unless a victim is Israeli or foreigner, there is nothing reliable that comes out a case where somebody was killed by the IDF. It's a whitewash on top of whitewash. A Committee of Investigation, headed by a judge and provided for by Israeli law, is the way to go in order to find out what happened. Netanyahu supports this (because he was not involved in the Gaza war), But the Defense Minister (Barak) and the army chief (Ashkenazi) oppose. (They led the war.) They should consider if it is better to be investigated by an Israeli commission or by the Hague prosecutor.

Not one word about the corruption of Hamas and their blind, militant charter of death and destruction aimed squarely at Israel but backfiring consistently against their own people! Amazing how these disingenuous UN dunces can have so many years of experience in Gaza and not see and admit what Yousef can in just one day! The UN in coddling and excusing Palestinian terror only contributes to their perpetuation of their mostly self-inflicted misery. Goldstone Blindly Gathered Information As An Infidel Who Can Be ... lied to so the fidelity of his report and his surmising is highly suspect. He should attend a few "preying" sessions in a militant Hamas mosque to see what really goes on there. More revisionist politics than any soul-searching for sure.

israel says it has weapons that are precice

'We didn't strike...OK we did strike' but there were only militants there. The 300 children we finally killed were elsewhere waiting on their early death. Way to go Hasbara Dep, way to go.It explains it all.

I have a question for who have declined to believes or even consider the Israeli findings. What is the point of insisting that israel investigate the allegations of the Goldstone report if you will automatically reject anythiong other thatn afinding of guilt? If you ahve already made upp your minds, why investigate? The information thsu far taken from Hamas sources, that six of the people killed were Hamas fighters, seems to me to show that the cite was not just a refuge for a bunch of civilians.

... is automatically a "child" for statistical purposes. Never mind that many if not most IDF soldiers are under 21. All Gazan females are "innocent civilians" for statistical purposes. No female knows how to fire a weapon, or do anything useful in a battle. I wonder what the evaluation of Cast Lead would be if a little truth was used in the numbers.

Weird.

Weird.

Anyone see a pattern? No, it never happened. NO, it never happened. Well, yes, it did happen but the circumstances were different. Let's wait to see how Israeli propaganda spins out as it tries to weasel its way out of the situation.

Have you ever considered Afghan civilian casualties caused by Us forces to be intentional ?

That is not a way to establish any credibility.

The Land of the holies, in all its magnificence, charges its thought to be tainted military to investigate its own alleged war crimes. The world looks on with renewed disdain. Which could be dispelled if any information leading to possible exoneration for any alleged war crime was given to an impartial, independent, and expert body for scrutiny. Unfortunately except for its own farcical efforts that word in the IDF lexicon is sacrilegious.

Lots of investigating, behind closed doors, with no apparent effort, and producing at best a Chinese Water Torture of details, has not achieved the goal of exoneration. What is wrong with simply doing the sort of investigation the UN wants? Open, in public, with evidence and advocacy? Dragging this sort of thing out usually not only fails to work, it usually results in people coming to the conclusion that much more is being hidden than actually was.

"Yes, Gazans in a Mosque are human, contrary to your politicians` beliefs." - Mark of Lewiston They are not human to many Israel's Mark, they are Arabs.

We are all to forget the last whitewash, and accept the new one. The problem is that the IDF is not engaged in a transparent, open and vigorous pursuit of what ever the truth might be. For were it doing so the investigation would be open and transparent. It isn't. Proverbs 28:1

1

You have put your thumb on this: the IDF keep insisting that it did not attack that mosque. The very idea is a slander! Then Goldstone goes and has a look and, yep, that mosque was attacked from the air. Suddenly they not ONLY admit that they struck the mosque but they ALSO argue that the attack was quite deliberate and considered: "It is possible that this information was intercepted by the IDF, and this led to the strike." Well, so sorry, but if the IDF had that information then why did (a) the previous investigations all deny that the strike even occured and (b) why have they suddenly done a back-flip??? If it takes outside pressure to bring those "facts" to light then what is the point in an internal IDF "investigation", unless it is to hide the truth for as long as possible?

Like so much of the past, this is just water under the dam. Finish rehashing whatever was - it cannot be changed. What is possible and vital to change is the present situation of the continuing inhuman blockade of Gaza, as ever so many international figures and organizations are saying. Israel, dare to look forward, not back !

1) We didn't bomb the mosque. 2) No, I'm telling you, it wasn't us. 3) For crying out loud! WE DID NOT ATTACK THIS MOSQUE! .... a little while later...... 4) Yeah, of course that was us. After all, we knew there were terrorists! terrorists! terrorists! there. Whoever said we didn't??? And everyone trained in the art of hasbarah handstands does a double-backflip so that they can justify the very action that the IDF had previously insisted - absolutely insisted - never, ever, ever happened. It'd be laughable, only hasbarah hacks never see the joke. They can't, because that would require them to have a good, hard look in the mirror.

You continually use these threads to lie and spread propaganda--suggesting thata Israel wants peace----sure it does--like you need a hole in your head. Quit your eternal whinging and start talking about how to make peace. You are a losusy---dart player---you are always off target.

Like there is such a thing as a truthful arab.Get a life fool arabs are known as habitual liars.

The more Israel tries to refute, or scratch-off a report, the more it sticks, and is regarded as a futile effort by those who are guilty of the crimes. A much better use of the excessive Israeli energy would be to MAKE PEACE, and stop planning new wars.

Vhardman you may think that the purpose of an army is "to make war". It is even true in some countries, especially expansionist ones. However most developed countries consider the purpose of the army to prevent wars. Maybe this difference in opinion is why you have such a hard time to understand international criticism of the IDF's actions? Also I just wanted to point out that your conclusion that armies are required to lose wars in order to not be criticised is complete BS, but you probably knew that already. It has nothing to do with who wins and who loses, it is about the actual deeds that lead up to that win or loss. So if you are disregarding civilians' lives, health and property you may find yourself being criticised regardless of whether you win or lose. Just look at Cast Lead, the actions of both Hamas and the IDF are being condemned. Surely they can't both be winners, right?

that started in 1939... Israel only takes 2 years to "release new findings"...

Spotting some men who were identified as Hamas [funny that, everyone says they don't wear uniforms]and hitting them with missiles when they were close to a mosque packed with worshipers or people seeking shelter? Regardless, at least one unexploded bomb was found 'inside' the mosque, so wanton disregard by Israeli forces of the lives of civilians is hardly exonerating is it?.

It's too late to contribute to the Goldstone report, Israel.

the need for an army is for it to make war, this requires that they win the war or perish! there seems to be a new movement that requires armies to lose wars in order to satisfy the the loons on the left ?

Israel PR people have no idea what they're doing. What is wrong with these people? Can Israel please hire some PR firms to teach them that if you wait 6-12 months to deny accusations against you, no one will listen. I am so sick of it.

First Israel says it didn't bomb the mosque, now it says it did, Israel is just one lie after another

They did not want to know what Hamas was doing. Goldstone Chinkin? A statement by a Hamas man was credible evidence.

then all of a sudden they admit they did attack it! so we have five incompetant army investigations before some kind of truth starts to surface, no wonder the world doesn't trust the IDF to investigate itself.

there is no way that any activities by the anti israel brigade are not to be treated with contempt !

This IDF after-action report sorta, kinda, gives some credibility to that particular attack. But, the IDF didn't apparently have the information at the time, only after the attack. And even Abraham argued for the lives of innocents at Sodom. Nobody seemed concerned one whit in the IDF. 300 civilian worshipers, 15 dead, 40 injured to get what? One or two guys? That is neither moral nor ethical nor reasonable. That is reckless disregard for any and all human life. Yes, Gazans in a Mosque are human, contrary to your politicians' beliefs. Your Army does not want anybody asking, "who argued for the civilians in the Mosque and how were their lives valued?" Did anybody in the chain of Command care one whit about those 300?

inventions. How do you defend baseless accusations? The attitude of the Israeli Government was correct. Unfortunately, nothing Israel says or does satisfies the anti-Israel hordes. At some point we have to ignore their incessant accusations. I recently heard that the Haiti earthquake was caused by Israel...tell me, how do we defend and prove that it is a ridiculous....call in the gods? It's fascinating that people actually believe it.

"It is possible that this information was intercepted by the IDF, and this led to the strike..." Not every information can be disclosed Otherwise everytime a miltary operation is successfuly completed,the other side can claim civilians were killed etc. and you end up having to diclose sensitive infoirmation.

munitions there,that was evidence enough for Goldstone.

...why did we balk a priori at all Justice Goldstone's requests?

During the Italian campaingn in WWll the allies destroyed a centuries old monastery on Monte Castelo,the germans were using as an ammo depot and artillery nest.It was a very costly operation,it required many infantry attacks and after thousands of allied dead,it was pulverized by the USAF and the poles took it... Now,in gaza,and during the intefadehs,the pals used mosques,hospitals and other civilian facilities,as shooting nests agains the IDF...The moslems did the same in iraq against the US...It's a dirty war and the Jews and the Americans are fighting a very dirty enemy that cares nothing about their own people...This goldstone "jurist" should be ashamed of himself for braking his anti-Israeli,antisemitic propaganda,giving aid and confort for the enemies of Israel

IDF investigations... Which fools still believes it?!

He had a biased mandate and, as a result, his report cannot be considered impartial or credible by serious people. Israel should ignore the pernicious and rotten report that Goldstone constructed in an effort to get himself a plum position at the UN.