Family who lost 29 members in Gaza war: We envy the dead
The Samouni family says Richard Goldstone has finally lent the Gaza offensive victims a voice.
By Amira Hass Tags: Goldstone report Amira Hass Israel newsRichard Goldstone visited the Gaza City neighborhood of Zaytoun in late June to tour the compound of the extended Samouni family, the subject of coverage here in recent weeks ("'I fed him like a baby bird,'" September 17; "Death in the Samouni compound," September 25). Twenty-nine members of the family, all of them civilians, were killed in the Israel Defense Force's winter assault - 21 during the shelling of a house where IDF soldiers had gathered some 100 members of the family a day earlier.
Salah Samouni and the owner of the house that was shelled - Wael Samouni - took Goldstone around the farming neighborhood, showing him its devastated homes and uprooted orchards. In a telephone conversation this week, Salah described how he had shown Goldstone a picture of his father, Talal, among the 21 killed in the house. He told the Jewish South African judge and head of the United Nations inquiry team into Operation Cast Lead, that his father "had been employed by Jews" for nearly 40 years and that whenever he was sick, "the employer would call, ask after his health, and forbid him to come to work before he had recovered."
The Samounis were always confident that, in the event of any military invasions into Gaza, they could always manage to get along with the Israeli army. Until 2005, before Israel's disengagement from the Strip, the Jewish settlement of Netzarim was located right next door, and several family members worked there from time to time. When the joint Israeli-Palestinian patrols were active, Israeli soldiers and Palestinian security officials sometimes asked the Samounis to "lend" them a tractor to flatten a patch of land or repair the Salah al-Din Road (for example, when a diplomatic convoy needed to pass through). While Samouni family members worked on their tractors, gathering sand, the soldiers would watch them.
"When the soldiers wanted us to leave, they would fire above our heads. That's what experience taught me," recalls Salah Samouni, who lost a 2-year-old daughter in the IDF attack, along with uncles and both of his parents. The older men of the family, among them his father and two uncles who were killed by IDF soldiers on January 4 and 5, worked in Israel until the 1990s in different localities, including Bat Yam, Moshav Asseret (near Gedera) and the "Glicksman Plant." They all believed that the Hebrew they had learned would assist and if necessary save them during encounters with soldiers.
As was reported here last month - on January 4, under orders from the army, Salah Samouni and the rest of the family left their home, which had been turned into a military position, and moved to the other, the home of Wael, located on the southern side of the street. The fact that it was the soldiers who had relocated them, had seen the faces of the children and the older women, and the fact that the soldiers were positioned in locations surrounding the house just tens of meters away, instilled in the family a certain amount of confidence - despite the IDF fire from the air, from the sea and from the land, despite the hunger and the thirst.
On the morning of Monday, January 5, Salah Samouni walked out of the house and shouted in the direction of another house in the compound that he thought other family members were still in. He wanted them to join him, to be in a safer place, closer to the soldiers. Nothing prepared him for the three shells and the rockets the IDF fired a short time later.
"My daughter Azza, my only daughter, two and a half years old, was injured in the first hit on the house," Salah told Haaretz. "She managed to say, 'Daddy, it hurts.' And then, in the second hit, she died. And I'm praying. Everything is dust and I can't see anything. I thought I was dead. I found myself getting up, all bloody, and I found my mother sitting by the hall with her head tilted downward. I moved her face a little, and I found that the right half of her face was gone. I looked at my father, whose eye was gone. He was still breathing a little, and then he stopped."
When they exited the house - injured, confused, dazed, fearing the fourth shell or rocket would soon land - determined to get themselves to Gaza despite the soldiers' shouts from nearby positions to go back, they believed only corpses remained in the house. They did not know that under the dust and rubble in one large room, nine family members remained alive: the elderly matriarch and five of her grandchildren and great-grandchildren - the youngest of whom was three years old, the eldest 16 - along with another kinsman and his son. They had passed out, some of them beneath corpses.
When they regained consciousness, 16-year-old Ahmad Ibrahim and his 10-year-old brother Yakub saw the corpses of their mother, four of their brothers and their nephew. Mahmoud Tallal, 16, had lost his toes; bleeding, he saw that his parents - Tallal and Rahma - had been killed. Three-year-old Omar, Salah's son, was buried unconscious under 24-year-old Saffa's dead body, explaining why they hadn't found him during the terrible moment of panic as they left the house. Ahmad Nafez, 15, recalled how when little Omar woke up and pulled himself out from under the corpse, he spotted his grandfather Tallal and started shaking him, crying: "Grandpa, Grandpa, wake up."
The previous day Amal, a nine-year-old girl, had witnessed soldiers bursting into her home and killing her father, Atiyeh. She had taken shelter in her Uncle Tallal's home and together with other family members was moved to Wael's house. She did not know that her brother Ahmad was bleeding to death in his mother's arms, in another house in the neighborhood.
The children found some scraps of food in the kitchen and ate. Later, Ahmad Nafez told his relatives how Ahmad Ibrahim had gone from corpse to corpse - his mother, his four brothers and his nephew among them - shaking them, hitting them, telling them to get up. Perhaps from the blows, Amal regained consciousness, her head bloody and her eyes rolling in their sockets. She kept crying out "water, water," said she wanted her mother and father, and beat her head on the floor, her eyes rolling the whole time.
It is too dangerous to remove the shrapnel embedded in her head - that is even what the doctors at a Tel Aviv hospital say. Now everything hurts her and will continue to hurt her: when it's cold, when it's hot, when she's in the sun. She will not be able to concentrate on her studies.
No one can reconstruct how the hours passed for them in Wael's bombarded house; some remained in a state of exhaustion and apathy. The first to recover was actually Shiffa, the 71-year-old grandmother. On the morning of Tuesday, January 6, she realized that no one was coming to rescue them anytime soon. Not the soldiers positioned just meters away, not the Red Cross nor the Red Crescent nor other relatives. Perhaps they didn't even know they were alive, she concluded. Her walker had been bent and buried in the house, but she managed to leave with two of her grandchildren - Mahmoud (his legs bleeding) and little Omar.
They hobbled out and started walking - along the silent street, among the vacated houses, realizing some were occupied by soldiers. "The Jews saw us from above and shouted to us to go into the house," related Shiffa. That was when they were walking down the street and passed by her sister's home. They went inside, but didn't find a living soul. The soldiers - firing into the air - came in after them. "We begged them to let us go home. 'Where is your home?'" they asked. She told them "over there" and pointed east, toward the home of one of her sons, Arafat, located closer to Salah al-Din Road. The soldiers let them continue on. "We saw people coming out of Arafat's house and Hijjeh's house. Everyone was a bit injured and the soldiers were shooting overhead."
At Hijjeh's house she found everyone crying, each with his own story of those dead or wounded. "I told them what had happened to us, how everyone had fallen on everyone else, in heaps, the dead and the wounded." She remained there with the rest of the injured for another night. Omar remembers this house fondly: He was given chocolate there.
Only on Wednesday, January 7, did the IDF allow Red Cross and Red Crescent crews to enter the neighborhood. They attest that they'd been asking to enter since January 4, but the IDF would not let them - whether by shooting in the direction of the ambulances that tried to get closer or by refusing to approve coordination. The medical teams, which were allowed to go in on foot and had to leave the ambulances a kilometer or a kilometer and a half away, thought they were going to rescue the injured from Hijjeh's house. But then the grandmother told them about the wounded children who remained behind, among the dead, in Wael's house. The medical team set out to rescue them, totally unprepared for the sight they found.
On January 18, after the IDF left the Gaza Strip, the rescue teams returned to the neighborhood. Wael's house was found in ruins: IDF bulldozers had demolished it entirely - with the corpses inside.
In a general reply to questions from Haaretz regarding the behavior of the military forces in the Samouni family's neighborhood, the IDF Spokesman said that all of the claims have been examined. "Upon completion of the examination, the findings will be taken to the military advocate general, who will decide about the need to take additional steps," the spokesman said.
Salah Samouni, during the telephone conversation, said: "I asked [Richard] Goldstone to find out just one thing: Why did the army do this to us? Why did they take us out of the house one at a time, and the officer who spoke Hebrew with my father verified that we were all civilians - [so] why did they then shell us, kill us? This is what we want to know."
He feels that Goldstone, in his report, lent the victims a voice. He did not expound on his frustration upon learning that the debate on the report had been postponed, but sought a way to describe how he feels nine months after the fact. "We feel [we are] in an exile, even though we are in our homeland, on our land. We sit and envy the dead. They are the ones who are at rest."
Why Facebook Connect?
Comment on Haaretz.com articles with your Facebook login, and share your thoughts on your own wall.
- Latest
- Most Viewed
- Most Rated
- Open all
so that justifies the killing of innocent people, of women, of kids???
"How about for the next 8 years every morning on my way to work I take a random shot with an M-16 at your house? I guarentee you that when you do come after me, you`ll come with everything possible to make me stop" I can guarantee you that I wouldn't kill the innocent women and children in your family, that's for sure.
"The family must have been involved with anti Israel activity" This, even if true, justifies the death of little children? "Had they been successful in bombing the nursery schools and central Ashkelon they would have killed more people than were killed in gaza" As this hasn't happened, you can hardly use it as a justification for the loss of so many innocent lives, now can you?
...and stick to the subject of the article!
Hello Amira I don't know how you endured the pain and agony to write about the criminal wrong doings of the Israeli army against such a defenseless population but I know I feel compelled to pass along your piece and place it on US websites. I recall something Desmond Tutu said about the truth -even appearence of it is a step toward justice for the victims In addition, I recall the sheer horror I felt on the release of Abu Ghali abuse by US troops and as shocking as it was- it was an inconvenient truth that had to be revealed. It reaffirm US policy never to accept prisoner abuse and it also help- ed shine the spotlight on torture at Guantanamo Bay which brought about another national consesus surrounding testimony obtained under distress as unreliable evidence which cannot be used in a court of law--which was no small thing. Thus there were two Big minuses that became two Big pluses! So thank you Amira for your inconvenient truth. Dutch
is this indeed is a tragedy for both Israelis and Palestinians. But you dont know what pressure or circumstances soldiers face in Gaza,all it takes is a rogue squad of gunmen from jihad/hamas to sneak into a house full of civilians and all hell breaks loose. But if any soldiers did kill any civilians in cold blood, then they should be court martialled as opposed to making a propoganda hullaballo which makes it difficult to know for a fact if such soldiers are guilty of these crimes. the chief of staff and defence minister cannot be held for deeds or mishaps of individual soldiers on the ground they are not on the field with these kids when they get sent into Gaza or where ever else. But like someone said accidents do happen or a glitch in intelligence, for all the soldiers know an aproaching civilian could be a suicide bomber and dont forget Hamas booby trapped alot of buildings, fired from schools,stored weapons in mosques and used ambulances as transport methods.
I wish you could see how absolutely ridiculous it is for you to try and legitimize this horrible crime against this man and his family by the IAF/IDF Civilized people don't bomb other civilized people out of their homes. How ironic Israelis accuse the Arabs of being backward with their stones but what could be more barbaric than using 21st century violence against neighbors and call that progress? Dutch
none of which have ANY relevance whatsoever. with just one of many similar instances described in detail, look at the zionists scramble to defend what has NO defense. one has to wonder exactly WHAT it is they're attempting to defend? are their grasping justifications meant to defend the actions of the idf? or are they meant to protect their own human conscience from the knowledge of their ruthless horrors?
It was evil beyond words. I hope the Israeli army commanders and Israeli officials will be charged accordingly and placed behind bars. I am sure it won't be justice enough for Palestinian survivors but it will begin to send a message to the vandals and murderers in the Israeli establishment the world will no longer accept the war crimes of the victim class. War crimes are war crimes Jewishness is no exception. Dutch
The only and one reason why the IDF, the Israeli polical leadership, their supporters are not on trail for crimes against humanity is simply because they are winning the war. When they loose it, all their crimes will be uncovered and guess what history loves irony.
stavros is one of those greeks who will always find wrong doing in jews=israel. he is not aware of history and he is not willing to know. i am sure that if turkey or the skopie were firing misiles towards greece he would be one of the first to push for for a harsh response.
Not all were innocent. Before you cry victim you must know the why. And Hamas too is not without blame - does this man blame them too or only Israel? And why does not he not blame Hamas too? The laid explosive traps and fired from civilians locations endangering their own people. They are not innocent. War is bloody and mistakes are made and every death is horrible. Revenge and anger are feeling that do not think with reason but passion.
a tunnel to Israel when the 2 tunnellers got killed?Did you expect Israel to let them finish? Look up Google earth on the Gaza strip to see the open spaces.
hamas adhered to the cease fire and forced all palestinian factions in gaza to stop rocket fire. it wasn't until israel killed to gazans in november that caused the rockets to start again. then israel lies and tells the world hamas hides in neighborhoods. first off gaza is very populated and not open. israel used the same excuse in lebanon in 2006 but it was proven that was a farce because israel bombed mostly sunni and christian neighborhoods in lebanon, not shite. freedom will come one day for the palestinians. it is only a matter of time.
What a short memory you have, Mr/Ms. Obscenity. For eight years Hamas terrorists meted out to Israelis the most vicious violence imaginable in the form of suicide bombings in buses, bus stops, cafes, restaurants, ice cream parlors, zebra crossings and other miscellaneous locations. You can't get more obscene than that: people getting blown up while eating pizza. But I wonder if you called those obscenities then, or "inevitable consequences of the Israeli occupation" or some similar drivel.
The real blame lies on those who encourage these activites by not discouraging Israel's immoral acts, such as the US
'Only if so called democracies say enough is enough and support the Goldstone recommendations will Israel think twice next time.' I wonder if you are a democrat, so-called or otherwise. Goldstone himself was extraordinarily critical of the UN's entirely unbalanced reaction to his report - the UN blaming Israel for war crimes, with Hamas not even receiving dishonourable mention. I see no even-handedness in your response, either, and can only conclude your hatred of Israel blinds you as it blinds the UN.
Amira when you use civilians as human shields. Civilians will die. Its not to hard to figure out. But you would never criticize the Palestinians jihad for kids. Video: Hamas Brags About Using Women And Children As Human Shields. www.mererhetoric.com/archives/11275301.html
When you reed news if you can reed, for instance "scare couple of people" in Sderot then you can open yours mouth and bark, other ways go on goole and find out the truth, but than it wouldn't suit you stupid remarks, on inability to shooting rockets by terrorists on Israel.The Hamas members and other terror org are born stupid and die stupid other ways the Hamas wouldn't have chance.If you trying to compere the intelligence of Pal/Arabs to Israelis than you are no different;)))
if he was so "worried" about his family he should have supported the peace not the Hamas first of all, and how many of his family was the Hamas fighters hiding in his family compound that he climes they where "civilians" where there where children? The story is just anther Bull hamas propaganda and the Arabs on this forum are so exited, same mentality. hmmmmm.
Or he would not get any Hamas propaganda money for telling lies, him and many others.The truth is that Hamas stop them from leaving so they can hide behind his family in the house and eventually blame the Israelis, and the list is most properly exadorated as usual...
In my opinion, there are two reasons: 1. Hatred of Israeli actions can never justify attacks on innocent Israelis. 2. Hatred of Palestinian actions can never justify attacks on innocent Palestinians.
targetting civillians,of course,for years. Credible evidence? by Hamas flunkies might be evidence for you.Goldstone says clearly he has NO evidence that would stand up in a criminal court. What is the Hague supposed to be ?
For those pro-Israelis reading this let me just say the following: The death, misery and oppression as cited in the article above is just one example of what the Palestinians have experienced for decades under Israel occupation and attacks. Is this the *cost* of Jewish emancipation? Try and moralize it as much as you want but the price isn't worth it.
and some sense of balance. Do you see much of either in the antisemitic posts?
"That is why sane people do everything possible to avoid it." Then ask the Israeli cabinet why it twice refused a proposal by Hamas to extend the ceasefire to the West Bank, the last time on December 23 2008, a few days before Cast Lead. I'd be curious to hear what they have to say in the light of the Gaza campaign and current investigations.
I remember when this family were found in January. It was shown everywhere except Israel. I was horrified at the time and it changed me from being a defender of Israel. I could no longer defend blatant killing of children and old people. Those making excuses after excuse here for this atrocity should hang your heads in shame and pray to God for forgivness for your inhumanity. You have made me sick to my stomach with your lies and spin.Shame that such a great people have been reduced to the level of common criminals!!
we all suffer when we read this article intented to do just that. The problem is that Hamas knows it. They encourage a culture of death and shaheed among the children, have adults & mothers support this culture, get armed by Iran, train their kids/teenagers/young women to wear suicide belts, embed themselves in the civilian position,the same way as Hezbollah does. They know the civilian will die, they do not care, because that furthers their cause and it will be blamed on Israel as the West has a short memory of history & reacts to the latest images shown on their TVs. The Gazans who elected them, cannot denounce this regime of violence as they fear for their lives. Hundred of fatah members were executed by Hamas in the most violent ways, before & during the war. Nobody in his right mind who wants to stay alive, can state any other truth than the Hamas propaganda. Israel is stuck between a rock and a hard place, damned if they defend themselves, damned if they don't.
Thank you once again for reporting in such sad detail what happened in Gaza. Allthough anyone who carred could have known from the beginning from the scale of war crimes perpetrated by the IDF army. It should have never been fought this war against an absolutely defencless civil population of Gaza. It is unforgiveable how the so called leaders were whatching the slaugther from afar.
Amira Hass is repeating here Palestinian side of story. It does not make this story more credible than it is. Richard Goldstone said, that allegation included in his report would prove nothing in court of law. Read his interview to "Forward"
Civilian deaths during a war are always lamentable. Any personal account of living in a war zone is tragic. Where are the personal accounts of what life is like when hundreds of rockets are launched at you every day? Israel pulled out of Gaza, the Palestinians destroyed abandoned Israeli orchards rather than produce food with them. Israel pulled out of Gaza, Hamas took over and began a war with Israel by launching rockets. If the people in Gaza elect politicians who start a war, then unfortunately they will be caught in a crossfire of their own making.
Cremonesi reported that a doctor at Gaza City's Shifa Hospital who asked to remain anonymous for fear of Hamas acknowledged that the death toll had been inflated. He also told the reporter that many of the dead were "youths between the ages of 17 to 23 who were recruited to the ranks of Hamas and then sent them to the slaughter." Cremonesi also wrote that Gazans he interviewed confirmed Israeli accusations of Hamas war crimes, especially the deliberate use of the civilian population as human shields. When local Gazans demanded that Hamas and its allies not take up positions near them, one interviewee said the terrorists responded: "Traitors, collaborators with Israel, spies of Fatah, cowards! The soldiers of the holy war will punish you. And in any case you will all die, like us. Fighting the Zionist Jews we are all destined for paradise." Others recounted how Hamas gunmen had disguised themselves as paramedics and commandeered ambulances.
This is an account of a war crime. Any civilised state whose forces are accused of actions as in this case would agree to full independent investigation. Of course if they felt guilty they would probably try to prevent such an investigation.
This is the result of Hamas's great Holy and Islamic war against the sovereign nation of Israel. Palestinians launching thousands of rockets against the Jewish state of Israel has failed to advance their state and Palestinian interests, and only increased their dead. Wars increase the dead. Islamic terrorism increase the dead. Nothing new here. It's a tragic shame that the who claim to care for the Palestinian people lack the morality to ruthlessly condemn and fight against Hamas who Palestinian civilians as shields for their own lusts of power.
accordingly there were no Hamas fighters at all. No Islamic Jihad fighters. No shelling, no guns, no mortars. Just victims. So, from all the lefty and Arab opinions, Israel just attacked for no reason at all. Stupidity reigns supreme these days!!
· B'tselem adopted controversial International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC) guidelines which use a highly disputed and unworkable definition of the standard for those "taking a direct part in hostilities". This means that people who are closely involved in Hamas' offensive infrastructure are exempted. Many ICRC legal consultants withdrew support for these guidelines on this basis. · Although B'tselem has improved its credibility compared to previous reports, by listing casualties' affiliations to terrorist factions, these same individuals such as Hamas senior military leader Saeed Sayam are still not classified as combatants. · PCHR's definition of a "non-combatant" is even more problematic, and only includes those holding a weapon at the precise moment of death. Consequently, PCHR classifies known terrorists as civilians.
Trying to equate "Arab State" with "Jewish State" is ridiculous. "Arab" is not a religion.
"What you say about urban warfare is true, but Hamas chose the terms of battle. They could have met IDF at the gate, conducted all fighting along the more sparsely populated eastern edge. Are you smart enough to understand why Hamas did not do that?"sean What gate Sean---do you think this is a country cottage with a gate leading to a garden path. Do not talk silly. In any event do you really expect Hamas to all line up at the border to be anihilated by the IAF who not knowing if all Hamas resistance fighters were emiminated would proceed to drop bombs on city areas even after their "leaflets" informed the Palestinians to go to city areas and UNWRA compounds where food and security was available. Stop talking rot sean. Read the report and quit posting Hasabara provided spin. You are embarrassing that fine Irish name. You owe it to yourself to not be used.
If everything in this article is indeed true, then this is a crime beyond crimes. There's no rhymne or reason for slaughtering civilians after they've been identified as civilians by the IDF commander in charge. They were even moved from one house to the house, so the IDF clearly knew that women and children were there. I can only hope that one day the IDF will answer for their crimes and justice will be carried out for all the innocent victims of this war.
Marek Edelman, who fought against the Nazis in the Warsaw Ghetto: ?To be a Jew means always being with the oppressed and never the oppressors.? A REAL Jew would never place nationalistic illusions above God. Never. So where are the choosen people? Where are the people, who choose life instead of death, good instead of evil, blessing instead of curse? There are so many signs, so many warnings. I see prisoners and slaves, prisoners of illusions, slaves of fear and animal instincts. Good means for them "good for me" or "good for my fellow nationalists". Amira is a light among the nations and if I come here for spiritual guidance, I listen to her, because she has not closed her eyes.
UN Watch Oral Statement UN Human Rights Council, 12th Special Session Geneva, 16 October 2009 Delivered by Col. Richard Kemp Thank you, Mr. President. I am the former commander of the British forces in Afghanistan. I served with NATO and the United Nations; commanded troops in Northern Ireland, Bosnia and Macedonia; and participated in the Gulf War. I spent considerable time in Iraq since the 2003 invasion, and worked on international terrorism for the UK Government?s Joint Intelligence Committee. Mr. President, based on my knowledge and experience, I can say this: During Operation Cast Lead, the Israeli Defence Forces did more to safeguard the rights of civilians in a combat zone than any other army in the history of warfare. FEEL FREE TO SEARCH FOR THE SPEECH ON LINE
What you say about urban warfare is true, but Hamas chose the terms of battle. They could have met IDF at the gate, conducted all fighting along the more sparsely populated eastern edge. Are you smart enough to understand why Hamas did not do that?
Israel is not ashamed of such inhumane conducts of the brave IDF on the children, but criticizing a simple TV show on a Turkish TV depicting these criminals?
How many mistakes makes for intention? If the base premise of the type of assault you are waging is very prone to "mistakes", negligence becomes a crime. In addition, hebrew scribbles in pccupied houses belie the notion of mistakes.
side wont show up. So you do the best you can. However---not showing up is not eveidence of innocence---like to hear Dreshowitz make that argument. Lets face it --PSM--Israel screwed up by not showing up but do not despair---your heroes will get an opportunity to prove their innocence(good luck with that)at the Hague. And if it never gets there ---the Aura of guilt will always be there and they can spend the rest of their lives watching their backs.. As it should be. We all saw the White Phospherous shells on our tv screens.
side wont show up. So you do the best you can. However---not showing up is not eveidence of innocence---like to hear Dreshowitz make that argument. Lets face it --PSM--Israel screwed up by not showing up but do not despair---your heroes will get an opportunity to prove their innocence(good luck with that)at the Hague. And if it never gets there ---the Aura of guilt will always be there and they can spend the rest of their lives watching their backs.. As it should be. We all saw the White Phospherous shells on our tv screens.
You mean what have they done for peace, apart from being driven out of their homeland and prevented from returning?
Now for mistakes will happen we will look at some of Israel,s "Mistakes". 503. The Mission received first-hand information about some of these methods in its interviews with witnesses in Gaza. In the report on the attack at al-Fakhura Street junction (see chap. X), the Mission notes the credible account of Mr. Abu Askar of the telephone warning he received as a result of which he was able to evacuate up to 40 people from his and other houses. He received that call at around 1.45 a.m. and Israeli forces destroyed his house with a missile strike seven minutes later. 504. The Mission is also aware of circumstances in which telephone warnings may have caused fear and confusion. Al-Bader Flour Mills Co. (see chap. XIII) received two recorded messages indicating the mill was to be destroyed, but neither of these was acted upon. Five days later the mill was struck in the early hours of the morning with no warning whatsoever. The owners of the business and their staff suffered anxiety by having to evacuate the premises on two occasions as a result of receiving such messages when no strikes took place.
yes, the palestinian "land fixation" which no amount of blood will ever satisfy. when have palestinians EVER done anything positive or sacrificial for peace? we all know the answer to that.
were bombing and killing in Iraq? Lots of kids were caught in the middle of that war. Who are you to criticize anyone? You are just as guilty of war crimes, whether you admit it or not, as the Israelis. I don't doubt with this new Goldstone report, which will set a precedent, that your country will be next. After all look at all the women and children killed by NATO strikes at a wedding in Afghanistan.
ALL Pals are "innocents" and incapable of treachery. It's the new meme. Half truths and innuendo are the new game in town.
The missiles had all but ceased during the 2008 ceasefire. Israel blew the ceasefire out of the water on Nov 4th in a major incursion into Gaza killing 6 Hamas in the process. Even so weeks later Hamas offered to reinstate and extend the ceasefire longer term in return for a lifting of the economic siege. Israel said no, preferring to vent its spleen for the umpteenth time and recover *prestige* they lost in Lebanon 2006 against a softer target. Israel is a not merely the bully on the block but a rogue state, trying to emulate its big brother, the US. The difference is only in scale. Only if so called democracies say enough is enough and support the Goldstone recommendations will Israel think twice next time. Had Israel agreed to lift the economic siege today we would have quiet AND thousands of dead and maimed civilians would still be alive and well. As it is, Israel works hard to plant the seeds for al Queda in Gaza. When the seeds grow, they think that will kill any hopes of statehood. Israel would rather perpetuate eternal low level warfare than deal with a genuine 2 state solution. America is still encouraging her.
mistakes happen. No mistakes with what Hamas intended with Qassams,yet the so called moralists pontificating from their self proclaimed position on the moral high ground had nothing to say. Their repetoire is very narrowly focused indeed.Listenning to them one would be forgiven for thinking there is only one conflict in the world,with Islamofascist genocidal wannabbee Hamas leading the good guys.
No need for you to take a preachy moral tone to Israelis. How many innocent civilians has YOUR army killed in Iraq and Afghanistan in recent years?
The UK fought a savage IRA insurgency in N Ireland for 30 years. In that whole period, British forces were responsible for 363 deaths, 90+% of them insurgents and under 10% civilians. In a couple of weeks, Israel killed 1,400 Gazans, under 30% of them insurgents, over 70% civilians. Do you see the big difference? Israelis who wish to talk about a moral army need to look further afield. Cast Lead was clearly a heavy-handed blitz with either little or no concern for civilian casualties or deliberate punishment of civilians to teach Arabs a lesson. This is underscored by the military casualties: 1,049 British servicemen and police died in NI. 7 Israeli servicemen died in Cast Lead. It seems that dropping leaflets and sending text messages wasn't a great success Cipora. As the civilians were cooped up on the battlefield, it hardly could have been. Are you sure these weren't just cosmetic gestures, sort of future get-out-of-jail-free cards? Sort of looks that way to me.
From Haaretz of june, 8, 2007 By Ze'ev Schiff "Israel is experiencing something in Sderot that it has not experienced since the War of Independence, if ever: The enemy has silenced an entire city and brought normal life there to a halt. The despair of Sderot's mayor is one sign of what is happening. The sight of the town's elderly residents returning from a "rest and relaxation" trip and refusing to alight from the bus and go home is additional proof that what is happening in Sderot is a national disgrace."
British Colonel Richard Kemp testified to the UNHRC of the Orwellian perversion of History by Israel's critics: "...Mr. President, based on my knowledge and experience, I can say this: During Operation Cast Lead, the Israeli Defence Forces did more to safeguard the rights of civilians in a combat zone than any other army in the history of warfare. "Israel did so while facing an enemy that deliberately positioned its military capability behind the human shield of the civilian population. "Hamas, like Hizballah, are expert at driving the media agenda. Both will always have people ready to give interviews condemning Israeli forces for war crimes. They are adept at staging and distorting incidents. "The IDF faces a challenge that we British do not have to face to the same extent. It is the automatic, Pavlovian presumption by many in the international media, and international human rights groups, that the IDF are in the wrong, that they are abusing human rights..."
Of course none of these incidents change Hamas goals one bit. Their aim is still to replace the Jewish state with a Muslim state. To ask Israel to go make peace with them to stop the deaths is irrelevant. There is no peace to be made with Hamas short of suicide.Supporting Hamas means supporting Muslim states only.The US,UK,Canada etc won't have their arms tied in war and neither will Israel. They would all be more than happy to minimize civilian deaths.
the civilians were, however, warned to flee areas of combat, by thousands of leaflets, cellphone calls, text messages and knocking on roofs. the civilians were also accorded every day a three hour humanitarian cease fire during which time goods passed from israel into gaza. some of those goods were stolen by hamas. contrary to what is claimed, much effort was expanded in an effort to save civilians. unfortunately, israel cannot save gaza civilians from the brutality of its terrorists, namely, hamas, islamic jihad and the executive forces.
You have to wonder how this can happen, and at the same time, Israel still trying to present to the world that it has the most"moral" army in the world. This is insanity. If this is indeed morality, according to Israel's standards, along with all the other crimes committed against the Palestinian people for decades based strictly on the fact that they are Palestinians, then at this point, the prospect of living in an "immoral" world and dealing with "immoral" people seems much better than living with Israel's version of "moral." May justice prevail for all Palestinians..
No one is arguing that this story isn't tragic. However, let's put things in context and blame the real culprit, Hamas.
Who has an irrational land fixation? It must be the settlers and ultraortodox people as far as I can see. And they don't seem to be willing to en the hatred and desire peace You are talking about.
first permitting the civilians to flee, this is the inevitable result. Bombardment of a city is by its nature imprecise and will exact a high civilian casualty toll, way beyond what could be termed collateral damage. Strictly, it constitutes a war crime. It was a callous and cowardly way to fight a war and the IDF should be ashamed.
After some stories you expect people to keep silent in shame or at least check the story for themselves, not here. Amira Hass added some more background to it and gave it a humans face. Thank you Amira I bookmarked this page.
There were too many "mistakes", that's the problem. Remember Dr Izzedine Abu El Aish? http://internationalpeaceandconflict.ning.com/video/dr-izzeldin-abuelaish-has It went way beyond the mistake stage.
Goldstone does not Goldstone Backs Away from Report: The Two Faces of an International Poseur by Alan M. Dershowitz Felix Frankfurter Professor of Law, Harvard Law School "In an interview with Jewish Forward, Goldstone denied that his group had conducted ?an investigation.? Instead, it was what he called a ?fact-finding mission? based largely on the limited ?material we had.? Since this ?material? was cherry-picked by Hamas guides and spokesmen, Goldstone acknowledged that ?if this was a court of law, there would have been nothing proven.? He emphasized to the Forward that the report was no more than ?a road map? for real investigators and that it contained no actual ?evidence,? of wrongdoing by Israel"
This story was known immediately after the dust cleared. For this alone there should have been an independent inquiry. We should not have needed Judge Goldstone to tell us how necessary it was. And this is why there are Israelis who feel that Gaza compounded what they already suspected in 2006, if doubts had not begun to gnaw before that. Something within the country has run out of control. Self examination is the first step to correcting one's own mistakes. To refuse self examination despite irrefutable evidence as to its urgency is a symptom of disease in itself. The doctor came to examine the patient. He was not allowed over the threshold. The patient claims he's healthy and will fight an international battle to prove it. Where will this inability to face reality end Mr. Netanyahu? Open your mouth now and swallow the medicine!
Quote "the problem is what happened to the survivors the wounded and the people that died waiting days for someone to help them." If the area was clear of all threats , The IDF would have given medical care and/or allowed help to the wounded even if some were jihadists as reported by talkback # 13. Now for the real story: 05:42 | jpost 18/10/09 . If you say that the IDF should have allowed help and/or medical care to be given even if the area wasn't clear of all threats . Then you're saying that The U.S authorities should have rescued the needed even when Katrina was still blowing .
you'd think they would want to try to stop all of this killing and destruction. but alas, it is preferable for them to keep it going and going and going. sorry, i'll believe that this is a tragedy when palestinians actually start trying to end the hatred and desire peace over their irrational land fixation.
They choose Hamas and for war . So what did they expect? Israel wouldn't react and Israel would wait till the palastinians had deadly rockets to bomb civiliens from Sedrot till far in Israel? Why are there no Goldstone reports about by the dutch F16 bombed Afganistan civiliens some weeks ago (and the last years) ? The dutch simply say they are not to blame cause the house with civiliens was also used by Taliban who used it to shoot at Dutch troops ,to protect their troops they bombed the house and killed lot of Afgan women and children. Our situation is not the same. Taliban is not bombing day after day Holland, but Hamas does send rockets day after day... We are not a foreign nation with its army at the other site of the world like the dutch in afganistan... Our civiliens are rocketed for years by these Gazans and reacted.
From Haaretz of june, 8, 2007 By Ze'ev Schiff "Israel is experiencing something in Sderot that it has not experienced since the War of Independence, if ever: The enemy has silenced an entire city and brought normal life there to a halt. The despair of Sderot's mayor is one sign of what is happening. The sight of the town's elderly residents returning from a "rest and relaxation" trip and refusing to alight from the bus and go home is additional proof that what is happening in Sderot is a national disgrace."
To sit comfortably in an office far away from the nitty griddy of house to house fighting where bullets and RPG rounds seek you out from all angles and fearful of the shrapnel from nearby IED or grenades and their concussions Exposed to the full and very real terrors of warfare. To be filled with adrenalin as you attempt in a split second to determine your next movement fully conscientious that the next sound you hear may be your last. The ever present and constant noise ringing in your ears, the screams of those wounded or killed. Sweaty, dirty, thirsty and full of fear for your immediate survival, you strain with every part of your being to keep yourself focused on staying alive.Any soldier who has ever served their country in combat and has walked the walk, knows that when fighting in areas where there are civilians terrible things can and will occur. Until you have been in the situation where another is just around the corner waiting to kill you, you cannot fully comprehend how mistakes can happen. In this article by Amira Hass, one is given the total impression of war at it?s most horrid form. Civilian casualties are a terrible price and there are many such cases of terrible instances such as these in all war zones. As someone who has been in military service in the United States and in the IDF I have seen this too many times. As to the words written here by Amira, it is not explain just how and why they were the Samouni clan family members actually killed. From the testimony of Salah Samouni one is given a picture that the entire clan were all pro-Israeli. He even states that in the past several family members worked in the Jewish settlement of Netzarim which until 2005 was located right next door. Yet what the readers are not informed by Ms Hass is that after Israel?s disengagement from Gaza the terrorist movements converted the now deserted Jewish settlement into a fortified area resplendent with trenches and concrete bunkers. That its area of once flourishing hot houses left intact at the behest of the Israelis to encourage farming where instead converted into a training ground for fighters. Ms Hass fails to mention also that mortar fire and rockets were constantly launched from this area and that members of the family; Tawfiq Rashad Hilmi al-Samouni, Muhammad Ibrahim Hilmi al-Samouni and Walid Rahad Hilmi al-Samouni, were affiliated with Islamic Jihad and boasted of this fact to others in Zeitun. There are others from the village who also had once worked with Israelis in the settlements and within Israel proper. A Islamic Jihad flyer even noted that Muhammad and Walid al-Samouni was active in fighting against the IDF in the Zeitun neighborhood. So could they have been fighting from within the houses as is common in street to street fighting? Why were they not in bomb shelters as our civilians were? If the Palestinians are so concerned about their civilians, as we Israelis are, why did they build fortified bunkers for fighting instead of bomb shelters? There is really no excuse for dead civilians other than the fact that if there was no cause for fighting they would be alive today. Ms Hass consistently fails, time and time again, to point out to the readers her total lack of criticism of her Palestinian friends. That if the Hamas and the Palestinians had fully accepted the Oslo peace accords and had foregone their inflated dreams the Samouni clan family members would be very alive today.
My two responses to John, asking for sources of this information, have not been accepted for publication. For the third time, I cite the Goldstone report, pages 198-211, B'Tselem on 8 January and the International Committee of the Red Cross, to name a few.
the loss of any human beeing is a wound in our soul. i dont believe that there is one israeli jew who is not devasteted by the civilian suffering in any of the wars. but tell me please do you honestly believe that the war is an israeli pass time? it is imposed to them by the intransigence of the arab world who is using the palestinians as a lever of pressure. the death of the 29 innocent people was not intentional , it was a very sad incident of a war instigated by hamas and their patrons.
The (main) problem (i hope) is not the killed, the problem is what happened to the survivors the wounded and the people that died waiting days for someone to help them. The whole world could know the wounded waited for help. (it was in the daily reports of the John King group)
No one in their right mind would defend such a thing. And I wouldn't just label it a detail of the war. If I would I'd be a hypocrite. I supported the war right here on this site. I can't support what happened to this family based just on this article. Well let's say the IDF were returning fire from one of it's family members. It wouldn't justify all these people being killed perhaps but it would suggest that there were some circumstances. Without the participation of the IDF on this particular incident, all we have is this story from the survivors as reported by Amira and Goldstone. I reiterate no one in their right mind could support such a thing as it is described here.
Hamas and the anti-Israel Islamist extremists are the cause of this conflict yet none of the Samouni family appear to have criticised Hamas? The unmerited suffering of any innocent life is a tragedy but when the cause of the suffering is forgotten, this is being lost in hatred. The loss of innocent members of the Samouni family is a great tragedy and worthy of an apology. If the Samouni family were to criticise Hamas and this would cause them further loss this is a consideration that also needs to be taken into account. Terrorism is the deliberate targeting of innocent lives. This is what Hamas does not deny they do. Israel does not deliberately target innocent lives. But no one can deny that all wars are true terror to all sides. If only there was a way to bring Hamas to justice in a peaceful way but Hamas may mimic their pay masters in Iran and deny Gazans the opportunity to democratically turf Hamas out of government.
I am an Israeli and I find this very sad. I want to know what happened here, and why this family suffered. It's not as simple as hatred. It was probably a military mistake, or some kind of intellegence, maybe false, was involved, and that is really sad. Those responsible should be punished. Let me also be clear that I belive that our army is indeed moral, much more than the Arab people or armies could ever be. Israel has no interests in destroying an entire family, nevertheless a family who is of no real threat to the security of its people.
Ok, Stella. How about for the next 8 years every morning on my way to work I take a random shot with an M-16 at your house? It's just to "scare" you, right? You call me every afternoon and warn me to stop - which I won't. How long are you going to put up with it before you do something? And I guarentee you that when you do come after me, you'll come with everything possible to make me stop. Don't tell me about the poor little Pals. We told them to stop. They wanted the war, and then when they got it, they cried. You go into a war -when you must- to win. Only an idiot cares about a fair fight in a war.
If this paper allows me I try to answer you. OK, it is a stretch but, lets assume those three grenades were an honest mistake. At least the shooters probably did not know who was in the house. From then on the problems started. - Al Jazeera knew what happened - The UNRWA new what happened (it was written in their daily reports, you can still find them, name and place) - The soldiers knew what happened - So I assume the Israeli government knew what happened So just after the rockets hit, the soldiers or their bosses should have organized a relief operation. They should at least have allowed the ambulances to come in. After relocating the family to one house they were "protected people" so the soldiers were reponsible. Instead days passed. It is in the laws of war, you have to protect civilians (protected pepople). This is why this is a potential war crime.
John, no. 17, asks about the sources of Ms Hass's information. They are the numerous sources cited in the Goldstone investigation of this tragedy - pages 198 - 211 http://www2.ohchr.org/english/bodies/hrcouncil/specialsession/9/docs/UNFFMGC_Report.pdf. B'Tselem and the International Committee of the Red Cross are among other sources.
i witnessed the war on gaza, i am survivor really i am survior , i felt the solders were the sons of god but they they were the worst sons of the worst gods .Smell of death was everywhere . white phosphorus was horrible. sevel unmanned spying planes were over our heads , no electricity , nothing available
When the (only) Jewish state in the world ISRAEL was founded, the (rich) Arab states did nothing to absorb the many muslim refugees in the area. Borders were closed for those refugees. The so called Palestinians (Jesus was a Palestinian Jew BTW) have no one else to blame for their misery but the Arab brothers in rich Arab states. The world is against Israel and the IDF actions, but Israel is only defending herself against the deadly attacks from Gaza. The Arab world is to blame, not Israel.
This may be news to Israeli public but we have seen many likes of this with graphic images in our TV's during Israel's terrorist attacks on Gaza. If you have hearts in your chests, you should stop and weep for this family. Thats what we did, and thats why we are angry. Dont forget: there is going to be a day of reckoning for all the oppressors, in this world or in the here after...
Minimum military casualties, maximum civilian casualties, and no accountability for IDF war criminals!
fred. They apparently do have military debriefings - they found that no crimes were committed except that one soldier stole a credit card. Shame! That said, can we really expect any credible investigation by the IDF - or any Israeli court for that matter?
so easy to use this excuse to justify a war crime, did the Israeli missiles that killed the innocent have "Made In Gaza" on it? Israel is in the business of killing 100 innocent people to punish one person, you can spin it all you want, blame it on Hamas and call Goldstone a lair, he is one of you, and he saw it for what it is, no point in spinning the truth, no propaganda here, this is reality, your beloved Israel is now in the war criminal league.
From Haaretz of june, 8, 2007 By Ze'ev Schiff ..."Israel is experiencing something in Sderot that it has not experienced since the War of Independence, if ever: The enemy has silenced an entire city and brought normal life there to a halt. The despair of Sderot's mayor is one sign of what is happening. The sight of the town's elderly residents returning from a "rest and relaxation" trip and refusing to alight from the bus and go home is additional proof that what is happening in Sderot is a national disgrace...".
For years, the Africaaners blamed the Blacks for causing the violence and deaths. And enough of the world believed them to let them get away with it. Some time later, the Blacks blamed the Africaaners for the violence and deaths, and enough of the world believed them to let them continue with the car bombs and necklacings. Something to remember.
Had they been successful in bombing the nursery schools and central Ashkelon they would have killed more people than were killed in gaza. Who would you have tried to present then?
If what you say is true than the Goldstone investigation did not do its due diligence.Shame on this fabricator!!!
the victims in THIS instance, and many others just like it, were surrounded ONLY by idf forces. by what sort of twisted reasoning do YOU suggest they died as "human shields" for hamas? similar accounts of the gaza ground invasion abound; some even coming from idf soldiers...if you recall. these people, and many others just like them, didn't die as "human shields; they were the victims of soldiers without human conscience, who were given authorization to independently identify and liquidate potential threats. for idf soldiers with morals and human empathy, this allows them to assess a "real" threat and react to it accordingly... but for those who lack morals, are consumed by hatred, following the edicts of extremist rabbis, or who are just plain coldblooded and vicious; this gave THEM a free ticket to kill on a whim...no threats required.
As an american vet we do have our court martials for soldiers and marines that did wrong in a war zone, I.E My Lai and the many places in Iraq. Can't recall if any Isareli defense force soldier has been court martialed for a war crime.
Disturbing isn't it?
They can mourn together with all the suicide bomb victims in israel and blame Hamas for the ongoing war.
Have you all become so cold-hearted? Even when women and innocent children are killed, you dont care. Shame on you.
If not for 8 years of rockets there would not have been Cast Lead. If there was a Goldstone 8 years ago protesting hamas rockets-never going to happen....
This smells like a propaganda piece with no credible sources. Nice story, but nothing more.
No sympothy for people who shot 8,000 rockets at us. If Pals did it to any Arab country, Gaza would be a parking lot like Kama
Did Hamas check these people, order them into a house, bomb it and then refuse the medical personel en route access? Stopping rocket fire is one thing. Arbitrary violence is something else.
I am speechless! Revulsion and SHAME is what I feel!!!!
Even though the criminal himself Barak says they are the most moral army in the world. The only moral "army" in the world is the peace corps.
Members of the family repeatedly claimed that all the people in the house were ordinary civilians. However, at least three were affiliated with Islamic Jihad. Meisa al-Samouni did not tell B'Tselem that her husband, Tawfiq Rashad Hilmi al-Samouni, who was killed on January 5, was an Islamic Jihad terrorist. She and the other members of the extended family, including Wail and Salah (who gave statements to the Goldstone Commission), never mentioned or hinted that other family members in the house at the time were Islamic Jihad operatives, among them Muhammad Ibrahim Hilmi al-Samouni and Walid Rahad Hilmi al-Samouni. A Islamic Jihad flyer noted that Muhammad and Walid al-Samouni were active in fighting against the IDF in the Zeitun neighborhood. An Islamic Jihad poster commemorating Muhammad Ibrahim al-Samouni is captioned: "He [Muhammad], along with the mujaheed Walid Rashad al-Samouni, blew up the tank, causing the deaths of a number of Zionists, as admitted by the enemy, on the fir
Members of the family repeatedly claimed that all the people in the house were ordinary civilians. However, at least three were affiliated with Islamic Jihad. Meisa al-Samouni did not tell B'Tselem that her husband, Tawfiq Rashad Hilmi al-Samouni, who was killed on January 5, was an Islamic Jihad terrorist. She and the other members of the extended family, including Wail and Salah (who gave statements to the Goldstone Commission), never mentioned or hinted that other family members in the house at the time were Islamic Jihad operatives, among them Muhammad Ibrahim Hilmi al-Samouni and Walid Rahad Hilmi al-Samouni. A Islamic Jihad flyer noted that Muhammad and Walid al-Samouni were active in fighting against the IDF in the Zeitun neighborhood. An Islamic Jihad poster commemorating Muhammad Ibrahim al-Samouni is captioned: "He [Muhammad], along with the mujaheed Walid Rashad al-Samouni, blew up the tank, causing the deaths of a number of Zionists, as admitted by the enemy, on the fir
...try not provoking Israel. You started the fight, you lost, too bad. The whole world is not going to be sympathetic forever.
It is very unfortunate that children and real civilians...There was an ocasion during the first Iraq war,when a bomb droped into a bomb shelter and killed hundreds of women and children...There was no world outcry,because those were collateral damages... The civilian deaths in gaza howewer,were much worst...the victims were body shields for the hamas murderers.IN A HONEST WORLD,ALL THE REAL CIVILIANS THAT DIED WERE MURDERED BY HAMAS...
Trying to justify acts like this -- and hundreds more like it -- by comparing it to "rocket" attacks on Sderot, almost all of which did nothing but "scare" a couple of Israelis, is obscene. If Israelis experienced the kind of violence meted out to the people of Gaza by "the world's most humane military" maybe they would realize the only solution is peace.
War is chaotic. Civilians are killed becasue of stupid mistakes. Our soldiers were killed by friendly fire because of supid mistakes. Where is the war crime? If mistakes are war crimes then any war where cvilians were killed are a string of millions of war crimes.
Israel wouldn't have engaged in this operation if it were not for THOUSANDS of rockets delivered on Israeli cities for a number of years by Hamas. Those firing those rockets knew very well they are putting the lives of their people at risk but they couldn't care less. In fact, it is exactly this kind of consequence they were hoping to see, in order to get Israel isolated in the world public opinion. This is why Israel was reluctant to pursue such action for so many years. If the Palestinians want to live, then they should make terror stop AT ONCE! Then they would have what they wanted to have for so many years: Peace and independence!
I use to defend Isreal every time somone say something about it but since cast lead I lost all respect for the state of Isreal. They are doing excatly what Hitler did to the Jews. The sad thing that Jews can no longer cry Holocaust anymore because they are destoryed that history by doing the something to the Palestinians.
this is exactly what all the fuss is about. Goldstone did what any human being would do.And Israel should just come to terms with it.The man has seen it with his own eyes so i still cant comprehend how people still disagree with him.Is it just pure hatred?
That is why sane people do everything possible to avoid it. I don't see that year upon year of firing lots of missiles a day at surrounding villages constitutes doing everything possible to avoid war. To the contrary. Amira: I have read your stuff for years. You egged them on, you approved their behavior. Now you are trying to get us all to weep along with you. To be the icing on the cake you baked.
Amira is known as one sided pro Palestinian propagandist whose testimonies and sources are not only hard to believe,but also verify. She is probably the only Jew who can freely and safely move in Gaza therefore her anti Israeli drivel can be ignored without any risk to hurt the truth.
Are those not obscenities what we just read in that article? Are they afraid of no man? Are they not even afraid of God??? No, they are not. They spit in his face and then they lie. They are the children of the liar.
Inna-Lillahi-Wa-Inna-Ilaihi Raji-Un (To Allah we belong, and to Him Is our return)
Enough said.
the killing of this family by IDF?