Dozens of 12th graders tell Netanyahu: We refuse to serve in IDF

I went through all the pages, in both English & Hebrew, and understood something which you didn't, the vast majority of the names didn't have addresses from either Israel or Palestine As such they weren't subject to conscription by the IDF and were just spouting off personal beliefs

At long last...there is hope in youth!

This is utter stupidity and laziness. There is no reason that these kids cannot go into non-combat units other than the fact that they feel a sense of entitlement that tells them that they do not need to serve their country in any way. I am sure that thousands of jobniks would concur.

yes i did, and in the first paragraph it clearly states jews and arabs, and your point being? they don't serve in the idf, yes?, that then makes this article void, and i agree, if THATS the real petition of course.

You gave Czecheslovakia to the Germans, and the result was World War Two Israel gave Gaza to Gazans, which resulted in thousands of rockets being fired into Israel as a show of gratitude by Gaza You may now take your umbrella and place it where the sun don't shine

Most of those that signed, were like you, non-jews and not subject to conscription by the IDF I know you're busy writing, time to start reading instead of ranting http://www.petition.fm/petitions/shministim/1000/

Have the saichel to use the link to the letter The vast majority of those names are neither Jewish or Israeli and their ages can't be determined Go through the pages one by one, as I did, then talk

Make the effort to look at the names and locations in the letter By far, the vast majority are from outside of Israel They're not citizens of Israel or subject to Military Conscription My post #92 this forum has the link, have the wits to use it

Anyone that partakes of the Democracy should be prepared to defend it There's no such thing as a Free Lunch Besides, if you had bothered to look at the names on the "Petition" most weren't from within Israel, within the first Six Pages, I saw one from Syria, and only 6 from within Israel So it seems, they put their names on the paper without being entitled to There's a link on my Post #92, this forum, try looking and then speak with some sort of informed intelligence http://www.petition.fm/petitions/shministim/1000/

Most weren't from Israel Try reading before you post nonsense Perusing the first six pages, there was only a handful of names and addressed that were supposedly from within Israel Matter of fact, a Syrian added his name, since when are Syrian's subject to conscripition in the IDF?? Here's a link, do the count for yourselves http://www.petition.fm/petitions/shministim/1000/

Yep, and many of those 'chickens' are hatched in Canada and elsewhere far from the madness. Tea?

There are always people willing to stand up to their government and society, challenge the myths that justify the crimes, and often pay a price for doing so. And I thank those who came up with a simple phrase that perfectly describes them.

And when the arabs come to murder them who do they think will protect them.WE found out in Europe what happens when you do not defend yourself no one else will do it for you.

Kol HaKavod!!! I know from personal experiance exactly how hard it is to stand up and say NO to serving in an occupation army. These are truly HEROS in every sense of the word. Hasak veEmatz (Strength and Courage)

Freedom is not free!

It is a great day for Israel and for the entire Jewish people when young people stand up for justice, freedom and rational discourse rather than blindly following their insane society into the meat grinder of passivity and status quo violence. I am a Zionist and a proud Jew and always will be but I am the first to admit that we, Israel and the entire Jewish world must learn from these young people if we are to save our collective soul

The Shministim and their struggle against the Israeli occupation indicates that there is still hope for this country, and that we can end the Israeli-Palestinian conflict through dialogue and negotiations rather than by force!

Chris Linthwait Tell that to the Americans who were sent to Vietnam Some times there is no choice for a democracy but to recruit the people to serve their country!

Move them to Sderot and thn let us see if they change their minds

and that it is a profoundly moral standpoint, not to get entangled in an organisation that do not give you a free choice, and is also run by people that do not hesitate to commit hideous crimes in the name of some lie. Those youths are the best that Israel have.

Refuse ,higher education,university and jobs for this bunch of covards. And a passport to leave the country,if they decide this sacrifice is to much they dont desrve a israely passport.

If Israel survives, it will be courageous young people like these who are responsible for saving it. They are the only ones who are willing to actually risk their freedom for peace. Mazel tov

the citizen has the choice whether he/she wants to serve in the military or not?

The way the posters talk about these youths is remarkable. It confirms what the Goldstone report has to say about the suppression of debate and the suppression human rights groups. As far as the rest of the world is concerned I think most would agree with them. To get peace you have to stop fighting.

atleast some body in isreal have a brain and using their brain, good youngsters. there is no milatry solution of middle east. to zionist leave your arrogant attitude towards innocent palestinine. the all you will get is hat towards the ordinary and innocent jewish.

how wrong you are ! maybe the parents are in usa or canada but their sons or family are in israel.

You think that these 88 young men do not want to defend their country. That is not their point. They are not objecting to that duty. They are objecting to occupying another people's country and lording it over them as occupiers. That is what they will not do and for that they should be praised as national heroes.

There are way more than 88 kids with this same belief. They are just scared to come out and speak against what they know is wrong. Soon enough, more and more will come out the closet...and what do you expect? anyone with a brain would choose not to serve. You can't force people forever, especially for such a BS cause.

as a mother i wish there was no need for an army. i wish that peace was possible and that we could trust the arabs. as a jew who was born before the 2nd world war , i say that is very naive to trust anybody . the only path to survival is our unity.

These are stronger than the most equipped of soldiers - these are the israeli hope for peace.

God bless them , they are the true future of Israel and peace !

i am sure with so many "peace loving people" out there and all their arab bothers ( who for 60 years gave them all the help they need ,so that people will remain in refugee camps!)they dont need the few sons of israel.

You fight fire (rockets and homocide bombers) from gaza with more fire. If you dont like it, then you can live near the borders until a few rockets come close or hit you and then you will change your mind.

You're a bad person, disgusted. I don't think that your opinion on what "being a citizen" means is worth its weight in farts. These children are heroes, as is anyone who rejects violence in all its forms.

that the IDF has evolved from a defence force to an army enforcing an occupation and subjugation of another people.

You claim that 20 % of the young protesters are arabs. It is appalling but entirely predictable that Zionist Apologists just make stuff up and present it as fact. At least a smarter propagandist would not have picked an even number. 23% sounds more convincing. If this is not a figure you just made up out of thin air, please cite your evidence. These brave young people are anticipating prison, so it seems very unlikely that they are part of the population not forced to serve. They have the courage to face the truth and take a stand that might be very difficult for them. I hope they and the thousands almost certain to join them will be allowed to do national service.

Yep, they are still stiff necked after all these years. Things ain't looking too good when your young wake up. They are probably looking at all the two stepping surroundinng Schalit as their parents most probably are looking at it too. Most of the warmongering drum beating Israelis are not in Israel at all, but camped in Canada, the US and other places around the world where they won't lose a shekel if their warlike advice goes bad. Very sad. High regards.

I have talked with numerous soldiers who stand at checkpoints. Many think they are saving Israelis from terrorist attacks, and many claim they are guarding the borders, when in actuality they are standing several kilometers within Palestinian land, in the seamline zone. The problem is that young people today were born after the occupation began, and have no true idea of where our borders lie and what it would be like to live as equals alongside our neighbors and not as occupiers. It is refreshing to see that some young people are able to see through the dogma and the fog and envision better choices.

It is really good to see the youth of Israel begin to speak out for peace. When we began protesting the Viet Nam war in the states, LBJ laughed, then whined. Nixon used the FBI as a gestapo-like secret police. Their efforts failed. The youth of America stopped the Vietnam War, largely by convincing older Americans but also by greatly complicating the draft/recruitment process. You can't keep fighting a war long when those you plan to conscript refuse. Today, it's 88, soon it will be thousands. Unlike most adults, kids have not learned to sell their soul and ignore evil because "their" people are doing it. Instead, they will be ashamed of "their" people and not be so willing to compromise justice and peace away.

I read the petition and its as if Amir Hass and Gideon Levy joined together and wrote it. The petition is less a petition than an indictment of all of Israel and of all Israelis.

Egypt and Syria's armies are larger than ever. Why has Egypt bolstered it's army so much over the years? Do they do so to defend against the Sudan or Libya or to one day fight Israel again? Syria also maintains a large army for it's size and Jordan, Egypt, and Saudi Arabia have US fighters and Tanks. These are all reasons to have a standing and reserve army. We need all Jews of the world to be willing and able to defend our homeland and this includes high school seniors.

Their parents should be proud. They raised them with enough sense to understand they should not be used as fodder for the dream of greater Israel. Smart kids. Hope it catches on. Real Judaism isn't dead, it has just been hijacked by land thieves and asst other undesirables. Nothing new under the sun. High five for the brave lads. Tea for everybody?

"It is about refusing to serve an occupation army that polices Palestinians in our names. What does the theft of agricultural land from Bil`in have to do with "security"? What does demolishing houses of people that have no ties to any "terrorism" have to do with "security"?" I'd like to see those questions answered too...

been stopped short of it's natural conclusion resulting in each subsequent generation effectively fighting the same battles yet again? By failing to finish the job on each occasion, the next generation is condemned to go over the same ground yet again. Even Cast Lead was not finished and whilst things are better than they were, it is quite clear that there will have to be a Cast Lead 2 at some stage.

"Israels population is not large enough to have a voulenteer only standing army" I understand this and accept it. But I have read that there is a great deal of anger in Israel over the fact that the ultra orthodox don't serve. The feeling seems to be that everyone should serve. If the ultra orthodox don't, then how can anyone blame these young people for not wanting to? It should be everyone or no-one...

What we no longer can wait three years to get high on a beach in Thailand?

I am happy they are so open about their choice but let them please also suffer the consequences. Put them in jail and give them a criminal record which means that future employers can judge if they want a criminal as part of their work force or not.

have them clean all the toilets in the arm, that's all they are good for.... their parents must be really proud of them

In English: http://www.petition.fm/petitions/shministim/1000/ In Hebrew: http://www.atzuma.co.il/shministim/

You're absolutely right, Ultra Orthodox are released from the army by law. So, too, are these young men and women released by law. I have a few friends who are refusniks, and while they spent time in jail, they were soldiers, by the army's own law. The army chose, under its law, to eventually release them from prison and discharge them from service. And a little statistical fact: every year, out of the population of those of age to begin their service, a little over %50 do not serve or finish service. Some refuse, some are released on medical grounds, some the army releases because it has no need for them, some are released for economic reasons. And it has nothing to do with thinking that an army is unnecessary. It is about refusing to serve an occupation army that polices Palestinians in our names. What does the theft of agricultural land from Bil'in have to do with "security"? What does demolishing houses of people that have no ties to any "terrorism" have to do with "security"?

...perhaps they can move to Ireland? They are a bit older than our Priests are used to, but some good virgin Jew derriere will surely always be pleasing to them!

"We also refuse to allow the Jewish State to pay for our higher education. We also refuse to accept any civil service positions. We refuse to accept Jew-funded health benefits. We volunteer to live in Arab only towns without police protection. We volunteer to go to Gaza where Jews are so blissfully accepted. We volunteer to aid the Islamists in dismembering the Kotel. There is so much we are prepared to do. We just can't understnad why the other hundreds of thousands senior school children don't also volunteer to commit suicide. Someone pass the cyanide pills. I believe the Imam passed it over.

become minced meat for the regional cannibals to swallow! I fail to see what's so brave by trying to escape once obligations and leaving to others the task to defend the country, their own family, neighbours etc. How selfish. There is no excuse! Of course the many NGO's financed by foreigners like the EU, Norvegians, Swedes etc..will provide them with a legal assistance, money, a world trip of conferences to explain their "just" motives and show the world how bad we are, and a well paid job in one of those many well known subversive groups..Disgusting!

Does anybody doubt that the Jewish enterprise in Israel would be doomed to slaughter without the IDF for protection? Any doubt requires complete ignorance of historical and political realities. So, does every soldier have to agree with every nuance of gov't or army policy in order to serve? Such an impossible requirement would leave Israeli Jews completely unprotected. This is not the best vehicle for social protest.

Talk about burying your head in the sand. For these young people, there is no decades-long Arab opposition to the existence of the very state in which they live, there is no Hamas and Hezbollah at Israel's doorstep committed to its disappearance, there is no Ahmadinejad calling for Israel's obliteration and seeking nukes. There is only militaristic Israel, and peace would come if only Israel had no army. Are these kids really that ignorant? Do they really have a simplistic view of the world that is more fitting for little children than young adults? If so, Israel's education system should be carefully examined.

Whatever your feelings on the ultra orthodox who don't serve their is no comparison between them and these 12th graders. Right or wrong the LAW ALLOWS these ultra orthodox not to serve. Unless they have a legal exemption then it is their legal obligation to serve in the IDF, its not a personal choice. Israels population is not large enough to have a voulenteer only standing army which would give them the ability to refuse to join. It needs to have compulsory service and so the law says they must serve whatever their individual political beliefs are. It doesn't matter if you support their beliefs you must respect the rule of law or be punished for breaking it.

The collision of ideals. What if they gave a war and no one came? So went the question for the US 40 years ago. Nixon was wise that we had to do away with a draftee army, wedded to American ideals, if we were to function as an imperial power forcing the world to our will. Thus is the problem confronting Israel. There has been no nation which could invade Israel, for the obvious if neither confirmed or denied reason, for over 35 years. The Israeli Defense Force, conceived and structured to defend the nation has proven a poor match to the problem of occupation and oppression. That over 40 years of occupation has failed to suppress or deter the Palestinians is also obvious. Israel will just have to cope with what Nixon did. Israel was created as an answer to oppression and racism. Those who hold those forces as evil have a hard time fighting for them. Perhaps Israel needs a second force a professional, void of the nation's values as is our All Volunteer Army, to wage occupation?

During the next war for survival, if we need a division that hides under their beds and cries for their mommies then we have the perfect group of 88 schlemiels. What a bunch of cowardly losers.

With their view they should actually join the Chamas as if we have no army we will all die anyway. Are you kidding, they will not make national service either.

Mahmoud (Sabourjian) Ahmadinejad will give each ex-Israeli volunteer a plastic key to heaven

The only has a pompous, the purpose to serve the people and to protect them. The military only obeys the government. If they are currently defending settlers, there are only doing so because the government orders them to. It is on the government that we should put pressure. Refusing to serve in the army is refusing to serve ones people, friends and relatives. Israel is a country that has always been in danger ever sent its existence. Without an army, Israel would not exist today. The army however should not protect the settlers who keep on steaming Palestinian lands.

You are, as usual, very free with your advice and your contempt for anyone who criticises right-wing Israeli policies. But you're still sitting in Sweden spewing your venom. Why aren't you in the front ranks of the IDF crushing Israel's enemies with your bare hands?

The LAW says that unless your officially exempt when your 18 you serve in the IDF & your personal political beliefs don't come into it. Its the elected governments job is to decide on all policy. If they don't like it when they are old enough vote for a government that will exempt them or not use military force thats democracy These fools should remember that threats to the country come in many forms. Today ONE OF THE MANY PROBLEMS is the palestinians but in 1948, 1967 & 1973 the countries existence was threatened by arab armies. If these 12th graders refused to enlist because of their personal feelings toward the palestinian conflict then they will not be able to defend the country from other threats like invasion When we see fools like this you know its a blessing that Yuli Tamir is gone because she wanted to indoctrinate Peace Now ideals into school children. Then nobody would be willing to defend the country. Send these fools to jail if they refuse to serve when their time comes

"they can go for social service in sderot. or work with terror victims" I'm sure they would be glad to assist the Palestinian victims of Israel state-sponsored terror....

I was under the impression that the ultra-orthodox didn't serve in the IDF either. Do you call them parasites?

If they don't want to serve in the military then why not work in a hospice under the adages of national service. Sitting in military prison does no one any good although then they would actually have to work.

Well done, these Israelis who are refusing to serve in the IDF. They are totally correct that there is no military solution to the Israeli/Palestinian conflict. Let's see Bibi's response to that!

I am always reminded, amongst many other recent and not so recent cases, of those "2 brave tel aviv dovenicks" murdered in 2000 who felt safe in visiting their Arab business partners because they represented a more "peaceful Israeli." It is quite true that some will simply never learn.

to the Brit war machine.He was a brave Englishman..

You youths were only able to write those letters because of the blood, sweat and tears that your parents and grandparents sacrificed to enable you to exist in this land. If it wasn't for their army serivce, you probably would not have been born and if you had, you'd be servants in an Arab regime in these lands. If you do not want to serve, then you do not belong here. You should leave. If you do not leave, how will you dare walk the streets after another war that once again saved you from extinction? Instead of defending your people, do you want to hide like cowards?

Just to add my respect for these brave (yes BRAVE) men and women whose conscience is stronger then their patriotism (as it should be!). Kok ha-kavod, may their movement grow and may they silence the guns. And may a similar movement grow among the Palestinians (someone has to jump into the pool first).

spoiled brats

This is how young people view the world and their role in it. They are only the tip of the iceberg; many more are feeling the smae way. What will not happen to next years' 12th graders and classes that follow. There is a shift in attitude and feelings even within Israel. Change is good.

It's strange that there are so few young people who will stand up to the war machine. They are very brave, these people.

It's a start

do you accept that israel is democratic free. it is because thanks to the idf even before the independence our gains where thanks to the idf. to-day you have not only a prosperous country but a place where you are free to practice your religion. without the idf i diubt it we can have thissatisfaction finally toomany young people have died so that you to-day have a right to say what you think. may hashem bless israel, its people and why not its neighbors. salom

How dare they live here! Send them away if they don't want to help defend the country. Either that, or enroll them full time in yeshivas. I'm sure they'll love it . . .

after they serve jail time I like the idea that they should go and live in Sderot or the Negev and do community work.In my view they are a bunch of misguided cowards By the way I served my time during the Six Days War.

in the occupied Golan heights in Qatzrin. Or all those squatters in East Jerusalem or the West Bank. That would be a service to Israel. Stealing land and oppressing Palestinians while protecting criminal settlers is aiding and abetting the end of Israel.

BRAVO

They are Arabs. Or were you not aware that Arab Citizens(Palestinians) of Israel--are almost never called up. Mind you with all this turmoil in israel--Goldstone---Nobel laureates---" Minor" refusniks etc--it may be necessary to draft them. My --wont that be ironic. "drafting" your own death warrant. Oh well--when we practice to deceive.

Wow, I am shocked. As a left leaning person I cannot believe the utter stupidity of these kids, what reality do they live in? While I do not agree with everything the army does, I am not foolish enough enough to think that we do not need a strong army and that every citizen needs to do their part for the collective good of thecountry. We live in a neighborhood with bad people who want to kill us and destroy our country. They want to fight for human rights, maybe they should try pulling this crap in an arab country and see what kind of rights they have over there. These kids have no idea how good they have it here in Israel. Not only should they be jailed but their parents and teachers should as well.

Like me and my buddy Dead Eye Dick Cheney. What are the IDF rules on going AWOL until the shooting stops?

...so far that brings the number of people that I can count in Israel who want peace to about one hundred.

May their numbers continue to grow until there is the implementation of a just solution to the ME conflict and the occupation ends. Israel needs thousands of these same brave young men and women to just say no to occupation and oppression.

citizens do not have the choice to serve or not ... they can refuse orders and take responsiblity for their actions once they serve but if everyone got to deicde if they went in the army, then who would protect the country ... being an israeli doesn't mean you get to pick and chosse what you can do to serve yoru country ... these brats need jail time to get straightened out

Fine, they can work in hospitals, kibbutzes, etc.

The other 99.99% of the kids will suffice.

they can go for social service in sderot. or work with terror victims.

Kol ha'kavod to these brave young people for standing up to the pressures and threats of our militarized society. I pray that more of their peers will join in the hundreds and thousands until our leaders are forced to abandon violence and colonialism.

Right, listen to your chemistry professor: don't fight against your enemies; release all terrorist prisoners - and life will be wonderful. Makes you want to cry.