Avi Issacharoff / Obama demands may leave Abbas feeling betrayed

Asking Abbas not to pursue the Goldstone Report after Cast Lead is like having asked the US not to pursue Al Qaeda after 9/11. In other words, overlook an atrocity for a"geater good" What exactly is the greater good in the case of Cast Lead ? The elusive "peace " ? LOL ! David

You will find that there are people who do not want to hear what Hamas has said. They are fixated on maintaining the status quo and will not acknowledge any possibility of negotiating or recognizing Hamas. If you are going to fight , have to have someone to fight with. But I find it interesting that the Hamas charter, and the PLO charter were at one time not much different. If the PLO can moderate so can Hamas. They have indicated that possibility as you have noted. The other thing is that when one negotiates, they always do so from an extreme position. Israel wants the other party to drop the extreme demand prior to negotiation. Israel wants the outcome determined first and the negotiations to take place afterwards.

He lost nearly all credit with the palestinians and he can't be a useful partner for any peace. The arena of this conflict on the palestinians side is left without any leader since Arafat is gone. What is left of the palestinians is just an internal-self destructive conflict. A struggle for power that can't replace a 'partner' for peace. The game is changed and the world must understand that & the sooner is the better. Unless a wast of time is the thing that was always wanted by both sides & their backers of this conflict !

Youjust forgot to say that Obama is or will be very interested in changing the rules of war. In other words hypothetically he would probably side Assa Kasher in contrast to Walzer-Margalit. He needs a change in rules of war if he wants to win something in Afghanistan. What can be done? The Russians showed the way in Chechenya and Georgia. Israel has been very timid in Gaza , because of 'antisemitic' public opinion, that shuts its mouth about Russia but wipes when Israel defends itself. Obama will finally turn the balance to the Israel side. He has no way out of this. Either he fights or he will bring a total American debacle and surronder.

Obama did undercut Abbas' position and stature. Obama let Netanyahu have his way on the settlements, and he took a biased position in the UN vote on the Goldstone Report. The USA is no longer a neutral participant and has most likely damaged its stature with the Arab world. Some overt positive action by the USA is required to restore confidence in the true intentions of the USA in these negotiations. Rhetoric has gone as far as it can.

... Abbas should resign & fatah to be drifted to history & the true face of the palestinians will come back from the shadow, Hamas. This will bring this conflict to its true 'core' and save the the world from the palestinians 'hide & seek' game. Building abu Mazen as a partner is a total waste of time & will only complicate an already complicated problem. Only by 'smoke & mirrors' abbas existing. He knew that himself & trying to put the blame on Israel. a usual excuse that is taking the conflict where it always is ! In fairness to this conflict, all games must be stopped and hamas & israel to come down to the arena !

Progress was made nad agreements have resulted from previous agreements. Palestinians want to begin where thenigs were left off. Israel, of course, demands that negotiations start from zero and liberman has expressed a hearty lack of confidence that any substantive issues can be brought to the table at this juncture. I did beliefve in Obama's action plan, but at this point, I see very little of it. Grantd there might be much going on that Obama does not want to go public, but Israel is really being given carte blanche to do as it pleases, and to undermine any palestinian authority.

... To weaken Abbas then the question becomes two fold 1- for whom do they want to replace him, I'd think a radical so as to squash any steam palestinians may be gaining internationally so israel can say it's not our fault I can't negotiate with radicals now if this is true the second question is to Palestinians Why are you letting uourselves be played, if fatah is smart they will run a campaign associating Hamas as bibi's choice and highlight the need to remain moderate in face of opposition failing this if hamas is elected to PA then Palestinians will probably be painted as terrorists or people who elect terrorists

obviously issacharoff does not know that obama is very unpopular in the muslim world. at least, that is the result given in a gallup pole. he is unpopular even in indonisia, where he had lived as a child. his cairo speech had the opposite from its intended goals.

who redeployed from Gaza whilst insisting that the PA and Abbas have no part in the process, so gaining NO kudos amongst the Palestinians. As a result, Hamas sneaked home in the elections and the rest is history. To Sharon, Abbas was merely a 'plucked chicken'. Netanyahu clearly agrees.

Its unreasonable to expect the Palestinians to negotiate while Israel continues to steal Pal land. Could there be a clearer indication of bad faith? International law is clear - the border of Israel did not change after the 1967 war. All israeli colonies east of the green line will have to be evacuated or swapped for other land. Moreover, the issue of land taken from Pal refugees in 1948 must be resolved - no other 20th century refugees had their land taken from them. The world has about had it with 40 years of Israeli crimes. But for the US SC veto, Israel would be heavily sanctioned and unable to survive economically without a just peace. The people of the US are tiring of Israeli intransigence. But for 9/11 and its effects on US perception of Muslims, US support would be far less than it is today. But the key is that it is dropping. Israel will eventually lose the WB. The sooner it makes peace, the easier it will be for both peoples.

Desperate times call for desperate measures. Maybe Hamas and/or PA should seek mediation from China or Russia on this and sack the US as a mediator? Time and time again the US has proven that they're incompetent when it comes to peace negotations aka rundabout talks....especially when they favour the other side throughout the whole process. Hats off to Bibi though, i didn't think Obama would be such a pushover! So much for a new era!

Now my dear Yaakov, diplomacy takes time. This mess has a deep and long history and will take years. Some unofficial goals are 24 months. Bush was a failure because he did exactly nothing except cowtowed to Tel Aviv. Obama has an action plan and an agenda. That alone is a big improvement. Obama is assigning resources and time to the peace talks. In the end, Israel will need "excellent reasons" not to follow Obama. p.s. The US was one of seven(7) countries which voted agaisnt the Goldstone Report at the UNHCR. Again, that's blind support to Israel.

Evidently they want Hamas to win an even bigger victory in January's elections than they did last time around. How else to explain pushing Abbas into "negotiations" which are certain to lead nowhere (since Bibi has no intention of negotiating in good faith) and only increase Palestinian anger and frustration?

The left is again dreaming. Olmert proved once and for all Abbas is a rejectionist. Olmert offered Abbas the equivalent of 100% of the territories, the Arab sections of Jerusalem and Abbas said he wasn't even close to an agreement with Olmert. Abbas is no different then Arafat or Hamas. He wants 2 Palestinian states. He wants his own state and to flood Israel with millions of Arabs for the 2nd state. The 600,000 Jews forced from the Arab countries in the late 40s aren't going back there. Abbas then wants all of Jerusalem. Fatah's General Assembly held in Bethlehem during the summer heard Abbas promise that Fatah would liberate Palestine and "purge" Jerusalem of its "settlers." Unless the Israeli left wants to live under Sharia law and speak in Arabic, then they better stop appeasing Arab rejectionists.

How is Abbas, a Holocaust denier, a "modeate", except in the looking-glass world of Arab politics? Where is there any overt recognition from the mass of Arabs that the Arabs have played some role in creating this impasse? Politicians in Egypt and Jordan called for abrogation of peace treaties with Israel. the 57 nations of the Organization of the Islamic Conference agreed in 2003 that Islam is at war with all the Jews on Earth, not just Israel. The political Left, especially the Jewish political Left, see all this and concludes that just a few more Israeli concessions will bring peace in our time. I say, if Abbas is too weak to accept Olmert's proposals, he is too weak to shepherd a treaty thru Arab/Pal factionalism. If Hamas cannot bring itself to unequivocally jettison goals it supposedly can't carry out, what kind of peace partner will it make? Note to Eurotwits: at the rate things are going, you'll be lucky to keep Norway, Italy and the UK. Keep smoking that peace pipe.

That was a BIG mistake. It had never been an issue on negotiations with Olmert. So in his naivety, obama introduced an issue Netanyahu could not accept and now abbas, to save his neck, cannot negotiate without a full freeze - ain't gonna happen. Bowing to the Saudi king got obama nothing. He's trying to get muslims to love him, but in that part of world, obama needs to be feared, not loved. With his flawed policies, obama has actually set back Israeli/pal negotiations many years. abbas also foolishly believes negotiations will resume where they left off. Wrong again. They will begin anew. If he had had a brain, he would have taken Olmert's overly-generous offer. arabs never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity. abbas thought obama would hand Israel to him on a silver platter - ain't gonna happen. At end of obama administration, abbas won't be any closer to peace than arafat was.

This US administration has to date been very disappointing in changing the playing field in the ME. It has capiulated to every demand of Israel and made Abbas pay the price. Palestinians have received nothing in return. Israel's occupation is entrenched and expansion goes on at a rapid pace. How in god's name Clinton thinks there will be ANYTHING left for a palestinian state is a mystery that Solomon could not solve.Just look: Obama says settlements must stop, including "natural growth" but is totally rebuffed. US support is lacking for the Goldstone Report. Obama pressures Abbas to not support it at this time and he acquiesces to the US demand thus weakening Abbas at election time. The US policy so far has been as big a failure as that of bush and we know where that got us.

Sir, There is no fear and demonisation of Hamas - they are enemies and should be dealt accordingly. Whatever Hamas leaders "said" should not be considered at all- since when any sane person would trust the words when written documents state opposite. Still they have an important function - to keep order in Gaza.

What about zionism Mr. B. Gold? Exist o no exist inhabitants of the land that is between Lebanon, Jordan and Egypt before 1947? What is diference between law and JUSTICE, Mr. B. Gold?

Obama and his advisers became aware that they could only push Netanyahu so far. They realized they couldn't deliver a complete freeze because Netanyahu wasn't going to give up his coalition for them. So,they stopped bothering him and told Abbas to proceed. Hamas or Al Quaida would not get more than Abbas. Palestinian demands are out of touch with reality and they don't show the slightest desire to modify them. They are just looking for outsiders or tougher leaders to achieve them. Obama is just their latest disappointment. Obama went as far as he could.Rather than compromise Palestinians will look for their next savior.

or some country trying to force peace be for its time. it would be great to have peace now however this is simply unrealistic.

The fear and demonisation of Hamas is rather overdone. Its leaders have said several times that they will accept the Green Line as a border in the final status agreement. The question is whether this means they will scrap their charter commitment to regain Israel, or whether it is just a step on the way. The Charter is popular and a vote winner of course with Pal refugees, who comprise the biggest single voting bloc in the PLO. So it is interesting that Hamas wants any final status agreement to go to a PLO referendum. If the FSA is approved, then the Charter commitment is otiose, old news. Even the Hamas Speaker in the WB legislature says it is only a dream, it is not practical. It will not be the end of the world if Hamas beats Fatah in January. Israel and the US can hardly complain, it is they who have set it up by short-changing Abbas bigstyle.

I've written to Obama and Mitchell both about how I think it could be done. Mostly it means respecting Hamas and being willing to talk with them. The US can talk to people Israel cannot or will not. It is just a matter of will on the part of Obama.

"...The US is committed to Israel`s security, not to its sometimes insane policies... Maybe a guarantee of lifting the siege if Hamas and Fatah reconcile? The US Navy could do that in no time at all without compromising Israeli security..." (Mark of L) Interesting. I can't find a fault with it. Except, of course, Hamas' main objective - to destroy Israel - needs to be abandoned, if such major undertaking takes place. But, do you see Obama proposing it?

A Palestinian state in Judea and Samaria has nothing to do with national rights or justice, but is a rare remnant of the failed post-WWII diplomatic doctrine of partitioning problematic states. The British Peel Commission didn?t even consider a Palestinian state in the West Bank, but allocated that territory to Transjordan, carved from the land allocated to Jews by the League of Nations. Palestinian nationalism is the result of simple and efficient British measures to quash Syro-Palestinian nationalism : A typical colonial policy of creating non-viable entities which cut across tribal lines, DIVIDE ET IMPERA. More at : http://xrl.us/bezuy4

Maybe Hillary or Obama needs to sweeten the deal for Abbas and the Palestinians. Maybe Abbas needs some incentives to make his deal with Haniya. Maybe the US can offer some incentives for Haniya to deal with Abbas. The US is committed to Israel's security, not to its sometimes insane policies. And the US need not be concerned with any non-security matters for the convenience of Israeli politicians. Maybe a guarantee of lifting the siege if Hamas and Fatah reconcile? The US Navy could do that in no time at all without compromising Israeli security.

In contrast to the BBS , Durson, and Johnboy dreams about Obama, we affrimed that a "partial freezement" is the fromula that will allow Obama and Nataniahu keep working together. Partial or temporarly freezments = nothing. Literarly, Israel got away with it. Regarding the Goldstone report, Obama will block it at the Security Council. The only initiative that will come out of it will be the need to change the rules of war to meet the necessities of America in Afghanistan....and of Israel in case that a new confrontation sparks up in the north. And what about the European lawyers????...a joke.... even of bad taste.

Abbas can do himself and the Palestinians a great favor by not running for re-elections. He is so out of touch with the Palestinian street, one would think he is living on a different planet.

So Palestinians take the brunt of this constraint triangle. At least they used to. Now they expect CHANGE.

Obama means well but is unable to deliver.

When begin to seriously seek a reasonable solution to their problems, they will be taken seriously

I genuinely feel that Abbas had the right desire to see a Palestinian state, he stood firm on many issues that are principle to the Palestinians. But this complete lack of negotiations on the OTHER side AKA Israel and Bibi Olmert and 10 years - just sat their and said...maybe...possibly...nah we don't have to change anything. We all know Israel is a client state of the US, so I wonder why the US even bothers when their are war criminal lunatics running Tel Aviv hellbent on the Greater Israel Project to get these negotiations going. Hamas is the elected Party of the Palestinian people, they are not crazy, they are legitimate, but we are just not allowed to believe it because...they have killed people and they are not obedient to the US.