Anshel Pfeffer / It is wrong to fast on Tisha B'Av

Anshel actually gives the reason as to why jews still mourn: "...and the heavy price Israel would pay for any attempt to remove the mosques does not seem worth it." When the right time comes we won't have to pay a heavy price.

In case the author hasn't noticed, theres an arab mosque where the Jewish Temple should stand. Thats reason enough to fast.

We fast for the destructions of the temple - a centre of peace and prayer for all nations around the world

some just feel nothing beyond their own selves...

Tisha B'Av is not as much a commemoration of a terrible historical event, but rather a recognition of its causes and our inability to change our behavior to undermine the causes which led to our exile. Hatred for fellow Jews. Treating Gdliness and religion in a casual and cynical manner. Removing Gd from our lives. They continue to live and permeate our society (as seen from this article). And for that we fast, and mourn. And that is why people such as Mr. Pfeffer feel threatened.

Aside from The Big One I don't observe any fast days. I resent that people, namely rabbis, who are unelected and unrepresentative of the Jewish Nation have taken it upon themselves to decide these things for the rest of us.

Obviously the time has not come yet to build the Temple. God sent Moshe Dayan to prevent it becoming defiled by becoming yet another archaeological site ...

What is he talking about? The 9th of Av is about disunity, injustive, bribery, abuse of powers, disconnection to nation and Gd. Unfortunately, the mourning of tisha b'av has never been more relevent.

As a non-religious Jew who does not fast - but profoundly respects Jewish history and tradition - I was very disappointed with this article. Fasting is a legitimate form of mourning, and one which emphasizes rejection of personal pleasure for communal penitance. The Jewish religion and tradition is niot individualist, but collective; we are not Western Christian or Greek individualists, but Eastern communalists. And why are you unable to understand the profound historical importance of the loss of Jewish sovereignty - twice!? Or the almost mystical and certainly emotional importance of this date, on which not only two Temples were destroyed, but the Spanish Inquisition began? The re-conquest of Jewish sovereignty in the 20th Centruy was not meant to replace Jewish History tradition or culture -but to enhance them; to fulfill the very same national yearnings which these two great catstrophes might have destroyed. Were it not for the fact that the very wise leaders of the Jewish nation chose to learn from History; to remember and cherish or People's past - rather than forget and destroy history, as did other nations - the Jewish People would have long ago ceased to exist. \Remember Tisha B'av, in whatever way you see fit: by fast, by study - or even by watching televison programs. But never forget this date and the millions who died throughout the ages in order to keep the Jewish People and Jewish civilization alive, like a flame in a darkening room.

The story about Napoleon in the article says it all: religion is the beating heart of judaism and should be ISRAEL's. Without judaism ISRAEL would not exist, jews neither, and nobody to mourn them or the Temple. If ever AhmadIran drops something upon us, survivors would only have the rivers of Babylon psalms and fastings...to come back!!!

I will not fast for the destruction of the Temple 2000 years ago. I will fast for the destruction of the Jewish people in the way they have built their modern state. the present State of Israel is worth mourning for, not the Temple in Jerusalem.

If you simply said that the reasons for fasting are weaker these days - I would maybe have accepted that you have reasonable opinion. Saying that fasting is downright wrong is a direct attack on all those orthodox jews who do fast. Not nice.

The holy temple and sacrifices are one of the pillars of Judaism. Without the temple, we only have a partial Judaism. Tisha B'av is mainly for mourning for the temple, but we include mention of the other tragedies as well, The purpose of Jews returning to their land is not for them to be an independent but to be able to server G-d fully. The talmud says that Moses did not want to go to Eretz Yisroel to eat from it's plentiful fruit but to perform the mitzvos which can only be done in the holy land, Similarly we mourn our most important loss, the ability to bring sacrifices to G-d.

Tisha Ba'v is all about reflecting on the things that prevent the Jewish people from becoming their full potential. Remember that one of the things that happened on Tisha Ba'v was the sin of the 12 spies, and the refusal of Bnei Yirosel to go into Israel. Fasting because there are many Jews abroad who don't feel enough of a connection to come to Israel is very similar.

Everyone can dream a marvel state and be seriously disappointed that the real one does not live up one's dreams, and cry in one's disappointment that's if that's not better than that we don't need Israel, we want back to exile so we can just dream of our marvel Israel that sure is much, much better than the real one, and weep for it, and fast for it, etc. etc.

the 9th Av video I just uploaded explains in 2 minutes why Tisha B'Abv is still VERY much relevant, and not only to Jews, but all humans. 1love

i hope your wine tasting column is more reliable than your attempt at defining the current flavour of Tishe Bav

I could not disagree more with this article. Forsaking your roots, history and religeon is the cause of all Israel's problems. When will you realise that this is Gods holy land. You state that all Jews are free to return to Israel. Judaism is more than having a Brit Mila and eating Matza on Pesach. Please wake up to the fact that this land is ours due to Gods Torah, not Theador Herzel.

My father a"h stopped fasting on Tisha B'Av when Jerusalem was reunited in 1967. The Kinot for Tisha B'Av which describe Jerusalem have no basis in our reality. Never the less, there is unfortunately more than enough "sinat hinam" to go around (witness some of the comments to Pfeffer's article). Tisha B'Av might be used to adress that issue, which HaZaL stated was the root cause of the second Exile.. Think of it as sort of a national "time out".

Talking about disconnected left-brain distortion. This is a perfect example of how the disoriented brain can create a reality completely alienated from natural instinctual perception. I can't imagine how horrifying the world must be to think like this. My sympathies.

What a brilliant article!!!! Here in SA (and reprehensibly) only a minority of the rabbis attend Yom hashoa services. If they would respect the recent dead, I would mourn the ancient destruction out of respect for the old traditions. However until such time: because the state exists; because the exile is over; and given that the temple’s non-rebuilding is the will of the sovereign Jewish state, I will open a bottle of my best on Tisha B Av to celebrate the end of exile.

that we lost everything in part because we were engaged in a vicious civil war at the time. That cannot be forgotten

One of the most arrogant yet ignorant journalists I have ever come across. The Temple is still not rebuilt and despite your own thoughts on the matter it is something that religious Jews (including religious-Zionists) pray for 3 times a day, every day. It's not such a big deal that you are ignorant of the Torah - the problem is that you think you know it all. A dangerous combination.

So you are making up your own Judiaism?

I remember reading that at the time of the Septuagint translation there were already more Jews living outside Israel (in cities like Alexandra and many other places) than inside Israel. Hence the need for a translation for all those Greek speaking Jews.

........the many talk-back´s to the article with a clear majority in favour of Religious Judaism. it is a very positive sign to see not only leftwing secular Jews are the readers of Haaretz!

The sages comment at great length on the cause of the temples' destruction. Most importantly the destruction of the 2nd temple was due to "Sinat Chinam" - causeless hatred of other jews. I read somewhere that that generation was very pious and felt that it was correct to kill other jews because their observance wasn't quite up to their standards. Not much has changed in Israel - the secular and the religious can't seem to get on or understand where each other come from. And, because of this our "exile" (or not having the messiah come to lead us) continues. Rav Kook said that the antidote to causeless hatred was causeless love i.e. loving each other just because they are another human being. Please god we'll come to our senses soon and treat each other with respect and then we will worthy to see the messiah come in our lifetime.

In the Diaspora Tisha B'Av is also a Holocaust Remembrance Day. The Israeli Yom Hashoah in the month of Nissan, when mourning is forbidden, was never accepted by many Orthodox Jews, and we observe Tisha B'Av to remember ALL the disasters and destructions that have befallen us. Israel is not the Messianic state, the Knesset is not the Sanhedrin, the Dome is not the Eternal Temple of G-d, Pres. Peres is not Moshiach from the House of David, the world does not recognise Israel as the Light unto the nations, there is not universal peace...

I accept that the author has a sense of humour, but is this an appropriate subject for humour? We look to a day when Israel will be governed by the Kingdom of David, led by Moshiach ben David, there will be universdal peace and brotherhood and humankind will look to Zion for moral leadership -- and also the New Jerusalem surrounding the eternal Temple of G-d. How much of this has been fulfilled? During the Second Temple era most Jews lived in the Diaspora, the same as now.

This isn't the first time in the history of the Diaspora that people didn't wish to come back to Israel. After the Babylonian Exile Ezra the Sofer and Zerubavel ben Shaltiel returned with less than 50k jews to rebuild the temple. There is still reason to mourn because we don't have a temple, more than that we have people in our own country that are willing to give up Jerusalem and give up our most holy place, the only legitimate reason for our being in Israel (i.e. the Temple Mt and evan ha shtia). We have much to mourn about. That being said we also have much to be happy about. This article and confused mindset of its author and this journalistic publication however are not included in things to be happy about.

All of the democratic choices the government of Israel and the Jewish diaspora have made is reason enough to mourn.

i could've written it when I was eight. 1.) we are exiled because we are not allowed to live in peace and without the constant agony of conflict and 2.) the baseless hatred that divides us then and caused our exile still threatens us existentially today. 3.) what an inappropriate forum to tell people what to do for their religious observance. It's just "historical?" Damn right.

As far as for the Left, they would be happier living in London or Paris than in Sheinkin.

"Senseless hatred" [Sin'at hinam] among Jews led to past destruction. Tisha B'Av challenges Jews to check ourselves out today all over the world -- in order to avoid acting destructively or fanatically,

If your father dies, and then you have a son... ....do you forget, or cease mourning for, your father?

Thus you have a reason to mourn!

The first Temple was destroyed due to idol worship (american Idol, anyone?) The second Temple was destroyed because of senseless hatred between bretheren. None of that nowadays, huh?

that produce confused children like anshel who do not want to fast anytime, who do not want to pay any heed to the laws of kashruth and shabbas who do not want to have any system of rules that prevent them from having just one big party in their small lives. selective secular education makes the pompous rise while the well kneaded, well heeded and continually learning Jew remains humble and softspoken in his life. Anshel can learn from those who know they always have more to learn than to spurn. Grow up Anshel. There is more to life than you and your warped configuration of what it is to be a living Jew. Even though you get paid for your silliness and you may believe half of what you write, is there not some other more honest way to make a living than by being a poster boy for Haaretz?

Pfeffer fails to research his topic fully and fails to grasp the true meaning of Jewish nationhood under one G-d. This also indicates a degree of assimilation and separation from Pfeffer's Jewish heritage. Bottom line is that Tisha B'Av is a national day of mourning for all the National tragedies that have befallen the Jewish nation throughout history including the holocaust of Nazi Germany. As long as the Jewish nation suffers from self-esteem issues and has various sectors running scared from their noble heritage there will always be a need for this day. Once again, Haaretz continues to allow and promote poor journalistic content void of any real facts or evidence and diligent research and once again damages the national self-esteem of this country.

why is everyone ragging on this guy and his article? you may not agree with him, but what makes you better than him? some of you sound like racists and aginst your own people. at least his points are factual and based on research, facts and reality. and for all of you self rightous people, what gives man the right to assign a fast day to a secular holiday anyway?. its almost as if the "chachamim" that some of you love to talk about believed that they were gods themselves, because last i heard, fasting was ordered by god alone for yom kippur and a requirement god placed upon us for his own reasons so he could judge us. most of you are more concerned about judging each other. and by the way, he's right.... no one actually wants a third temple. but if it ever does come to be, i'll bet not a single one of you actually shows up with a goat. in fact, i'll bet no one will. they'll turn it into a movie theatre before anyone actually uses it for any of its intended purposes.

Independent.....I think not...what were one of the reasons for our heavy losses in the Yom Kippur War? Who today is telling us where to build and where not to build> Independent....not yet. I see Tish B'Av as a mirror image to the Shoah. Comments please

The modern day STATE of Israel is a totally different entity to both historic Israel and what the country will be in Messianic times. In 1948 politicians created an artificial country for jews inside part of the historic Kingdom of Israel but its not the same as what Israel was in the past and will be in future when the Temple will be rebuilt. What we have today is a kind of stop gap between diaspora & biblical Israel its not the Israel that will exist in Messianic times. When the Messiah comes there will be no democracy and non of todays problems will exist. Moshe Dayan ordered the Israeli flag to be taken down to avoid provoking the muslims which was a military decision not a political one. ASSUMING he made some promises to the Waqf back then its purpose was like taking down the flag an attempt to calm the situation. In 1967 certainly not in the first couple of hours of taking the city had any decision been made about allowing the Waqf to run the place and as Dayan was at the time a soldier rather than a politician with any authority to make any binding promises to the waqf. The main reason the government hasn't ordered the mosques to be pulled down and replaced with a Temple is firstly to avoid a war which it would spark and as the Temple is not supposed to be rebuilt until messianic times then there is no need for it. There are only a handful of orthodox jews who believe that we should pull down the mosques and rebuild the Temple now because as there has been no arrival of the Messiah there is not supposed to be a third Temple. As for secular jews not being interested in sacrifices those things won't be made until there is a Temple and the time is not right for that and when the time is right there will be no secular jews and there will be no democracy that will be the real return to zion and until then we fast and mourn the loss of the Temples.

And it very much still exists.

the most simplistic of laws and rituals. The "me" Jew casts himself away from the 'we' Jews and keeps running from his heritage. A poor essay by a lost soul.

Whether one fasts or not, Tisha be'Av should be a time to reflect upon what led up to both the first and the second Destructions. Both were consequences of senseless revolts against the ruling authorities (Babylon and Rome) on the part of an extremist party and an unwillingness to compromise and recognize certain realistic perameters. In each case, extreme nationalism led to destruction, followed by either exile or the demise of the last vestiges of political self-rule. Both followed from an utter lack of tolerance of other views and policies. The rest is history.

the sheep have returned but they do not hear or see their Shepherd.

We should fast because such utter ignorance is passed off as informed comment these days. We should fast precisely because so many Israelis have no idea what purpose the temple served. We should fast because hatemongers like you are shaping public opinion.

This article assumes that every Jew is an Israeli Zionist, viewing the State of Israel as some sort of replacement for the Temple, and we are living in Messianic times. This article is hilarious given its publication a day after the ridiculous conversion bill started passing through the Knesset...every Jew free to come to Israel? What a laugh that is.

Actually, the author is not that stupid: it is much more than that. His article is only a small part of a big campaign of stripping Israel of its religion and tradition, so that it will be easy to manipulate the people using shallow nowadays slogans.

Is being a self hating Jew a mental illness? I wonder, it reminds of the parasites that mice get that make mice attracted to the smell of cat urine in order to be eaten, so that the parasite can multiply. Perhaps Ansel has this parasite inside of him?

The Holocaust: that's over 60 years old. Why bother looking for nazi killers that murdered a couple of thousand Jews that long ago. They are old men, leave the alone. And Rabin - how long are we going to do memorials and show his biography on TV every year. It's getting boring. The destruction of the Temples - that is really ancient. But wait a minute. The palestinians are saying we were never present in Israel before the 20the century. On what basis do you come to this land and kick out the arabs that have lived there forever. It's not like you ever had any national existence here. Not ever, according to the arabs. There was no Temple, no ancient Israel, nothing. You just showed up and claimed land that was never yours. If that is the case, all Jews should pack up and to Europe or America, or wherever it is they came from. The arabs however, are not so forgetful. They know that Mohamad went up on his horse Barak to heaven from the Temple and therefore Har Habait is theirs. What a good memory the arbas have.What a poor one Pfeffer has.

If you had learned what the Rambam said regarding the coming of Mashiach you might understand why they are called chachamim and you're not. About 800 years ago, Rambam said the main change that will occur with the coming of Mashiach is that the Jews will no longer be afraid of what the goy says. Now if you think that everything is fine - Israel is independent, we are powerful, etc., maybe you should read the newspaper and you will find out how correct Rambam was.

there are many layers to the day, and reasons to observe it. according to tradition, one of the reasons the Temple was destroyed was due to the hatred the Jews of that period had for each other. So, we can fast on the day and reflect upon how that reason is still so prevalent today, and what we can do to lessen it.

Tisha b'Av, as any schoolchild can tell you, is the day of mourning for all of the catastrophes that have befallen the Jewish people since the Exodus of Egypt, till today. It is for this reason that many of the kinot (lamentations) are about the persecutions during the Crusades, and newer ones for the Holocaust. The point of Tisha b'Av is not historical--it is spiritual and religious--reminding us that we have not yet achieved the Jewish utopia in which the world will finally all know the kingship of God and nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war anymore. Even Pfeffer must acknowledge that still remains a distant dream.

What a truly stupid and unnecessary article. Far more useful are the articles that have been written since 1967 offering relevant modifications to the "Aneinu" prayer that is said on Tisha b'av. But a day reminding us of the enormous significance of what we lost and its cost in nearly 2000 years of not having an independent Jewish state is very helpful.

Your logic is repulsive considering the fact that you probably do not keep any Jewish religious holidays at all. You sound more like an atheist upset about religion as a whole; and thus will exploit any opportunity you can to attack the Jewish religion.

I feel that while this author makes valid points about the holiday of Tisha b'Av, the "end" of the physical exile has not marked the "end" of the spiritual exile as many Jews lack Jewish observance and identity. When Israel exists as a sovereign nation completely deciding her own affairs and the Jews return to Israel because of a spiritual awakening, then the fast of Tisha b'Av will no longer be necessary.

Anshel Pfeffer demostrates his lack of understanding of Tisha B'av and it refelcts his ignorence of Judaism as a whole. On Tisha B'av we do not morn the mere loss of bricks and stones of the Bait Hamikdash, nor do we morn the loss of the land of Israel per se'. Whaat we morn is thee loss the exile of the Shchina's presence among us. We morn that HaKadosh Borouch Hu Himself has gone into Galut and there has been a diminishing of His Great Name in this world. The sole purpose of the world< Judaism, and of being a Jew is to make His Name Great in this world and bring His presense even more connected to mankind in this world. When that happens it is Kiddush Hashem and the opposite is Chilul Hashem. The destrcution of the Bait Hamikdash was the ultamate Chilul Hashem since creation and thats why we morn. Before comenting on Judaism it would do you well to learn soemthing about it!!

Tisha b'av is a mourning for more than a literal temple destruction. The rabbis teach that one of the main reasons for the temple's destruction was Jew vs Jew factionalism. Following the temple's destruction Jews were also exiled from Israel and most have never returned. This is the real sorrow of tisha b'av that we live in a society where though there is a jewish state and a holy city many Jews do not feel attached. In these uncertain times we should fast not for a rebuilding of a literal temple but in for a return to a connection to the land and the religion by all Jews

I might be a secular Jew, but the right of the religious Jews to practice their religion as they see fit, its theirs alone, as much as we might like or dislike some of their practices, we must respect that right, as much as we must demand, that they respect our right to see our religious practices as we please, respect begets respect, and we as Jews, should learn to respect each other in the way we live, and have the right to live, under the law of the land.

The sentiment is not new, nor is the argument without substance. But the author fails to note the appeal of Jewish tradition and the lack of a means for "repealing" an occasion. Perhaps that alone (the inability to formally repeal outdated norms) is reason enough to mourn.