Analysis / Will Netanyahu's behavior push Obama into Abbas' arms?

Hey shlep. Please tell me exactly who Israelis allies are, anyhow? Micronesia? You're probably still smarting over the loss of your second biggest ally in Mauritania, no? Hahaha, Obama's propensity to shoot from the hip? How about Israeli propensity to shoot white phosphorous and drop cluster bombs in heavily populated civilian areas...and UN INSTALLATIONS, AND SCHOOLS? Please don't respond, i can only take so much idiocy in one day.

Ron, if the Israeli government carries on behaving the way it does, ignoring the whole world opinion, the only friends Israel will be left with, will be the Solomon Island and may be Fiji. Even the American Jews are losing their patience with the arrogance of the Israeli Government. And that saying something!

See you're at it again with this recurring debate of whether or not this land is also considered occupied territory. There seems to be an international consensus that after the 1967 war, the territories captured are considered occupied. It's not particularly complicated unless of course one wants to make it complicated but essentially the Palestinians have stated repeatedly that they'd exchange territory captured which Israel would like to retain for land allocated in from other regions. At least this is what's been reported through the negotiations which PM Olmert and President Abbas discussed in 2008.

Obama is the president. He makes the decisions, even if it is to not make a decision. Obama doesn't like American allies, his sympathies already lie with his Muslim friends. Obama is used to getting his way and is petulant and sulks if he does not get his way. Obama doesn't really like whites, read his book. Jews are whites. Obama follows the Jeremiah Wright school of Christianity, Jews are bad. Too bad so many American Jews voted for Obama.

Jeff starts from an incorrect premise: Since Israel is treating this territory AS IF it already owns it then all a property developer needs to do is approach the Israeli civil authorities for a permit. That only works if Israel is entitled to treat occupied territory AS IF it already owns it. Israel isn't entitled to that for the very simple reason that it doesn't own it, no matter how much it tries to act AS IF it does. Israel merely occupies it, and the consequence of that is this: Israeli civil authority has no authority over this land, precisely because Israel has no sovereignty over this territory. A pretty simple concept: a concept so simple that even Jeff could understand it if he tried. Jeff doesn't want to understand it, and so he doesn't even try.

JN: "Ir the land is owned by the Israel Lands Administration, then what`s the problem?" This is an occupation, Jeff. Regardless of who "owns" the property, Israel remains the "occupying power", and so FOR AS LONG AS THIS OCCUPATION CONTINUES Israel is prohibited from allowing its citizens to take up residence in that territory. So it doesn't matter wether (or which) Israelis own the land, because FOR AS LONG AS THIS OCCUPATIONS CONTINUES Israel can not allow *any* Israeli civilians from transferring onto that land. That. Is. Prohibited. So some "Israelis" own these properties? How nice for them, because they'll ALSO still be holding the deeds when the occupation ends. And those "Israelis" want to take up residence? Then They Must Wait Until The Occupation Ends Before Taking Up That Residence, And Not A Moment Before.

Your statement is so full of falsehoods I don't know where to begin, but to suggest that Netanyahu is prepared to "unilateraly declare statehood" is truly ridiculous! Do you not think that since this is what the Palestinians have been asking for since 1948 they might take him up on the offer! If the situation weren't so tragic, your comments would be funny. A begrudging acceptance of the potential for an impotent state some time in the future as dictated by the Israeli government is not the same thing.

Because the land has been illegally occupied by Israel since '67. It is Palestine, not Israel. Just because the Israeli government says it is theirs, does not meen it is; it simply takes away the usual need for the immoral destruction of Palestinian homes that usually precedes a building project.

the pals, and guess what jeff, the world says so.

The land's ownership is not relevant. Israel is not sovereign beyond the green line except as occupier. As occupier, it can only build for military necessity, not to transfer population. Civil construction requires local, non-occupation permission. That would be Palestinian or Jordanese. The Palestinians have not granted a building permit for civilian construction. And the property ownership is disputed at best. Arab's cannot get building permits from the occupying power for undisputed land either.

Ir the land is owned by the Israel Lands Administration, then what's the problem? Surely, the Palestinians can't object to somebody building on property which does not belong to the Palestinians in a private ownership sense and for which the proper building permits have been obtained.

netanyahus behaviuor topwards Obama deetrmins thier relationship only. Abbas controls his relationship with Obama and it would seem that he is doing a better job at this then Netanyahu. Obama has more than two coices here.

I'm counting the days until Obama is out of office. Just hope any damage he does to the Israel/US relationship - or Israel itself is limited and reversible. Obama, and his staff's limited knowledge of the issues,their propensity to shoot from the hip, and their bias towards appeasing all of America's enemies - at the cost of our allies - is unbelievable. I can't imagine that our military is very supportive of Obama's leadership.

Akiva once again has it all wrong Obama entered the complexities of the Middle East as a clumsy and naive dreamer. Thanks to Bibi's measured but firm - dare we say brilliant dimplomacy, Obama is beginning to understand how things work on both sides. This will make him a valuable friend one day. He will certainly get over his silly frustration at not having his way on the settlements - he has no choice but to focus on other issue as his popularity in the US continues to plummet. However, Israel would never have recovered from an Olmert or Livni government's reckless and absequeous sychophancy in such critical times. Yeah Bibi!

"Analysis/Will Netanyahu's behavior push Obama into Abbas' arms? Ed If it works; one will have the tango ! As simple as that. It makes no difference; which ever is the arm. May be, Abbas is the partner in words but not in real action. That made the Palestinians themselves, the real problem. Too much not united and their leaders have to satisfy all kind of agendas. They are united under a name that can't be defined 'Palestine'. Its shape & colour is not the same for all the Palestinians. The Palestinians needs more than one Palestine to please everyone of them. What made it that complicated are their own leaders. They made Palestine looks like what every Palestinian wants to see it ! How it will end : There will never be a Palestinian leader who can solve the Palestinians problem ! There will be only one thing to blame to escaper responsibility; a well used fact even blinds can see it "Israel".

Having decided to pick a fight with Israel over the settlements, Obama should press on, threatening to squeeze Netanyahu with a range of penalties (for instance, by withholding government loans, lessening aid by the amount that Israel spends on settlements and ceasing automatically to wield a protective veto over UN resolutions hostile to Israel). If Netanyahu?s acceptance of a full settlement-building freeze had led to the break-up of his coalition, it might have been replaced by one more amenable to peacemaking compromises. Or, if Obama had never wished to engage in a long wrangle with Netanyahu, he should not have made such ambitious demands in the first place. As it has turned out, Obama now looks like a man whose bluff has been called. His hand as a mediator has been badly weakened. And the Palestinians? most flexible leader may, as a result, be forced out of the game.

It has been said before: Israelis and Palestinians have been holding out. The game of chess is not over yet. The West doesn't understand that it is a game of positioning, and that the peace they say we should be striving for is in fact of lesser importance. The only way for the majority here to rise up and demand a real solution, the only way to stop the extremists from building on land most of us do not care about (Judea and Samaria), the only way to break the apathy in in the centre of Israel, is real pressure from the US. Real demands. Real threats. And, Heaven forbid, real sanctions. Yes, we would feel even more sorry for ourselves (because then we can finally claim rightly that the whole world is against us), but at least we'll make concessions. At long last we will come switch off Big Brother and Strictly come Dancing, or whatever these meaningless programmes on satellite tv are called and demand real visionary, daring leadership from our politicians.

Obama played a game with Netanyahu during his last trip to the US. Obama insulted Israel by hosting Netanyahu in a way below what a prime minister deserves. Don't be surprised Netanyahu treated Obama in the same way.

Iran is the spoiler. Hamas must finalize negotiations with the Palestinian Authority and come to the table.

Gilo is in the south of Jerusalem. What is next? no building in Kyriat Hayovel? or Gonen?

fred my dear fellow, you can marvel at how little and insignificant this 'amount' is yet if it was ever cut off it would be an action that would have enormous ramifications for Israel. Sure, the amount is small however have you considered what comes next? Well let's imagine that the US gets all knee-jerky with Israel as it has with Iran - giving it sanctions for 'suspected activitiy of some kind' whereas Israel has proof pouring out of every orifice! UN or Western economic sanctions would cripple Israel and if even some ties are cut, it should hopefully serve as a reminder that Israel only has so many friends.

I'm really impressed!I wish at least quarter of the israelis could think like you.

So far, his patience was saintly. Alternatively, he was more busy with other things. In both cases the time to deal with Israel by now is nigh.

Fighter pilots know it well, before the flight, they force their engines and hydrolics to the extreme to see if they withstand the pressure, it is better to break the hydrolics on the runway than while airborn. Netanyahu's logic is the same, he pushes the constructions which maybe he would not have to that extent if someone like Bush was in power. Bibi is sure that Obama and any US administrator is powerless against Israel but he neverthless does his test.

I love when they make the argument," Well the aid that is given to Israel from America is in turned used for american jobs to build weapons for Israel". When is Israel going to use its own money to pay for weapons made in America for the benefit of Israel.

....could as he would. But the U.S. Congress and the "reactionary forces" in Washington D.C. are still preventing him from doing so....

What's new about Netanyahu's construction? After all, every Israeli PM has continued construction in East Jerusalem. Even Olmert constructed thousands of units, including in Har Homa. See http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1113383.html

Netanyahu already voluntarily dispensed with economic aid from the US during his first term in 1996, explaining he did not think it was fair to demand from the US aid now that Israel has a very developed economy. Of course, he also thought that a sum that is just a small fraction of the Israeli budget but would be constantly brought up in every discussion wouldn't be worth it. The military "aid package" consists of funding that needs to be totally spent in the US, thus furthering both Israel's security and US economy. It amounts to no more what Eqypt receives, and - when taking US economic aid to Egypt into account - to substantially less.

The greatest tragedy in Modern Israel was Netanyahu's election in 1996. Had this not happened, we'd almost definitely be two states by now. Hopefully we would be at peace by now, but if not, at the very least, we'd have our moral integrity in tact. We Israelis should be against any building in East Jerusalem and the West Bank, not because Obama wants this, but because this is best for Israel. We should be finding a way to extricate ourselves from these lands, not increase occupation.

Obama still can: 1. Freeze financial aid; 2. Apply sanctions; 3. Support Goldstone Report at UNSC; 4. Treat Iran's and Israel's right to nuclear technology equally; 5. Support Palestinian state at UNSC; 6. With support of most Americans, limit influence of Israel Lobby. Netanyahu is playing with fire. The US may reach a point at which dumping Israel for better relations with all Muslim countries may be in the US interest. The political price of supporting Israel is becoming too high.

I can't believe how angry I am at Bibi, although not surprised. The US should now begin to review its aide, military and nonmilitary, to Israel and perhaps cut aide that is not directly related to protecting Israel's security, to which we are committed.

... how will Obama relate to this poke-in-the-eye...? ... Bibi probably reckons that Obama will be too busy studying USA unemployment ratings etc...

Israel doesn't have to pay the price for Obama's failing politics, inexperience and lost "charm". Wherever he goes, he makes nice speeches (written by good speech writers), but comes home "empty handed". The man hasn't accomplished anything, exept getting prizes for "hopes for the future". Nobody takes this man serious anymore.

Bibi is a runaway express train ignoring the signals that he is running out of track. His irresponsible behaviour and reputation and that of Israel is at an all time low, and endgangers the country more than any act of terror. Manipulating and embarassing Obama is foolhardy and self destructive. Immediate negotiations is the only proper path.

The Security Council already adopted a resolution: "Stressing that the Gaza Strip constitutes an integral part of the territory occupied in 1967 and will be a part of the Palestinian state," UNSC Resolution 1860 (2009) http://www.un.org/News/Press/docs/2009/sc9567.doc.htm They could do the same thing with respect to the "Occupied Palestinian territories" in the West Bank without any further declaration from the Palestinian Authority.~~~~

The mans very first phone call on inaguration day was to Abbas not the leader of traditional American allies. He has been supporting Abbas at every turn and condemning Israel every chance he got. At his Ciaro speech he pushed the palestinian propoganda line by saying Israel was created because of the Holocaust and its creation caused palestinians to suffer. At the same time who has been making more peace making gestures here Bibi or Abbas. BIBI He agreed to a tempory freeze on settlements in Judea & Samaria. He has wants to improve the palestinian economy He has removed checkpoints He has keeps encourging Abbas to sit down and talk ABBAS He has refused to even meet & talk with Bibi unless the settlement freeze includes Jerusalem which is a red line for Bibi. He has despite objection from his American friend said he is determined to unilateraly declare statehood He has said Fatah may consider a return to armed resistance ( terror ) BASED ON ACTION WHO IS THE REAL OBSTACLE

Once again the majority is denied the chance of reaching a peace deal because of the fanatical minority. These settlers are the thorn in our side , a cancer in the body of Israel that must be dealt with. Their latest strategy is to encourage mutiny amongst the ranks of the IDF, which must be stopped immediatly.

Lasting peace requires justice. Destroying Palestinians homes to then be replaced with Israeli homes is not justice. There will be lasting enmity for generations. Israeli leadership has the power to bring that peace without coaching from any other nation. However it has chosen a different path. Obama needs to help the oppressed, namely Palestine.

The U.S. has a trump card, recognize a Palestinian state. It's about time to do this the quick and dirty way.

...so what? My people have religious and historic ties to a lot of land and far closer in history than Israel. That does not give us the right to take up arms, push out those who live there now, and steal their land and resources. There are countless examples. What's happened is enough time has gone by that most Americans have no clue as to the real history of Israel. David Ben-Gurion declared the only internationally recognized borders and Israel has spent ever since, mostly by violence, doing its level best to colonize all the land and drive out the indigenous population. Now, since Israel simply cannot stop itself from breaking international law after law, a framework of a final status agreement will be imposed.

...again I detect the hand of a maestro. Maybe that trademark Israeli smugness is going to be short-lived... I'm wondering, was it really the sweating Bibi who was outmaneuvering President Obama?

... by placing a totally unreasonable demand upon Israel. A complete freeze on building in existing communities is far fetched and unreasonable.

Should Israel care what Abbas does? or go out of its way to separate Obama from this duplicitous blowhard. Abbas has a history of making threats, pretending to negotiate while he instigates boycotts of Israel or tries to get Israel's generals arrested on war crimes, and stirring up religious violence in Jerusalem. What is certain is that he has never recognized the legitimacy of Israel, never indicated he is willing to have a final peace agreement with Israel, and keeps alive the irredentist Palestinian vision of directing mass Palestinian resettlement into Israel. He fully backed Arafat in rejecting any final peace with Israel, in saying no to President Clinton's Camp David parameters, and in promoting Holocaust denial. Simply because Abbas is Obama's kind of guy doesn't mean he has to be Bibi's.

will be announced for West Bank in order that boundaries can be determined and what's considered "provocative activities" in East Jerusalem restrained, such as constructing new developments. I think these are substantial positive developments from Israel's government, given the members of Israel's current government. President Abbas should reconsider not talking at this point because setting the maximum request in preconditions to actually begin negotiations would not be helpful at this time.

We never truly talk about peace here in the MIddle East. Our focus, instead, is always on a piece of this or a piece of that. With burgeoning populations though on each side, what other conversations could we have. The core issue has, and always will be, the amount of land and water habitable. Statements are loudest made here through acquisition and increased numbers. Nobody is truly interested in peace. Just making statements or falling (nearly) into the drink.

All this is ture, but, on the other hand, there is still no pubic acknowledgement from the current Obama administration that the United States recognizes that Israel has any claim to any part of what was "Arab" East Jerusalem from 1948 to 1967, including the Temple Mount or the Jewish section of the Old City--the President reflexively calls all development in East Jerusalem as "settlements" and has not indicated, amazingly, that he recognizes specific Jewish religious or historic ties to East Jerusalem.

If Obama backs down to Netanyahu this time then he loses alot of the Muslim support he gained from the Cairo speech and will push them closer to Russia/China. Is it worth it to the US economy support Israel with 6M people and alienate 1500M Muslims, are Americans willing to pay higher taxes/unemployment to support Israel this strongly.

but the grandmother of them all.

Honorable President Obama, You must learn the map of Israel and the actual situation on the ground before you came with statements that makes you look as you have very little knowledge of the problem in the middle east. You must remember Israel has national interest just as the US has, and they need to protect it very closely. I think that you formulated a strategy with some naïveté toward the Arab countries and here is the danger. Arab countries and especially the Palestinians will play you like a fiddle if they sense your amateur knowledge of the situation on the ground. So, get someone that is not bent on teaching Israel a lesson, but is looking to solve the problem (Israel/Palestine). I personally do not think the Arabs will ever agree to Israel existence, remember Israel neighbors are not Canada and Mexico fair game is not in their lexicon (remember Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan. what are the Arabs do to help you?) I feel I can tell you my opinion, I voted for you and I want you to

If the land is owned by the Israel Lands Administration and the proper building permits have been obtained, then what's the problem?

after hsi first WH call to Abbas, his vists to the region leaving out Israel, his distortion of Israel's history at Cairo University, Clinton's public dressing down of isreal a few months ago over settlements,Obama's humiliation of Netanyahu by not inviting him to the WH until the last moment through a back door,who offends whom? Obama has insulted Israelis and that is why most Israelis don't trust him. Now the man is crying unfair? Get over it.

There is nothing to be gained for the US by being "in Abbas' arms", so why go there? The Palestinians are fractured and no outsider can bring them together. And, until they are united, it is pointless to negotiate with one faction or the other.

Bibi did the right thing.The only thing that might get the Palestinians to negotiate sincerely is the threat that if they don't Israel will keep eating away at their territory and that the so called settler population will overtake in numbers their own. If the Jewish settled area of the West Bank increases the motivation will be much greater for the Arab population to emigrate and very probably for their leaders seeing this to negotiate in a meaningful fashion.