4 Israelis killed in shooting attack shattering years of relative West Bank calm
The victims are a couple from the settlement of Beit Hagai and two residents of Kiryat Arba. One of the dead believed to have been pregnant.
By Anshel Pfeffer, Chaim Levinson, Jonathan Lis, Avi Issacharoff and Amos HarelFour Israelis were shot dead in their car Tuesday near the West Bank settlement of Kiryat Arba less than a day before Israeli and Palestinian leaders meet in Washington for a summit to announce the resumption of direct peace talks. The attack, for which Hamas has claimed responsibility, shattered years of relative calm in the West Bank.
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Rescue personnel examining the vehicle in which four residents of the Hebron area were killed, August 31, 2010. |
| Photo by: Tomer Appelbaum |
The victims are a couple from the settlement of Beit Hagai and two residents of Kiryat Arba. One of the dead was a woman believed to have been pregnant.
The Beit Hagai couple has been identified as Yitzhak and Tali Ames, 45 and 47. They are survived by six children, the oldest 24 and the youngest 5. Just six months ago, the Ames couple celebrated the birth of their first granddaughter.
Tali worked as an account manager in various offices in the area and Yitzhak was a tour guide who accompanied groups to the Temple Mount area every Wednesday. Beit Hagai, a tiny settlement in the South Hebron Hills, is home to 100 families.
A spokesman for Hamas' military wing, the Iz al-Din al-Qassam Brigades, announced Tuesday that members of the organization carried out the shootings. A Hamas spokesman in Gaza, Sami Abu Zuhri, said the Islamist group praises the attack and considers it a natural response to "the crimes of occupation."
Another Hamas spokesman, Fawzi Barhoum, said the attack was meant to highlight the failure of the security cooperation between the Palestinian Authority and Israel.
A senior PA official who is in Washington for today's official launch of direct peace talks with Israel expressed outrage over the attack and accused Hamas of attempting to thwart the negotiations. The Fatah-dominated Palestinian security forces in the West Bank launched their own investigation into the incident in an effort to track down the gunmen.
The South Hebron Hills, where the attack took place, is considered an area in which Hamas cells have heightened their presence. The commander of the West Bank division, Brig. Gen. Nitzan Alon, said the authorities believe that Hamas is telling the truth in claiming the attack.
After the incident, Israeli troops and police were stationed at major checkpoints and junctions along West Bank roads in an effort to track down the gunmen. In addition, the police's operations branch has issued instructions to officers throughout the country to stay alert. The Israel Defense Forces said it had located the gunmen's car.
IDF sources said there had been no indications that an attack was imminent. Defense officials now believe that Palestinian terrorist organizations may seek to sabotage the peace negotiations. The authorities are also worried that far-right settlers may try to provoke unrest as well.
At around 7:30 P.M. on Tuesday, gunshots were heard near the Bnei Naim junction just south of Kiryat Arba. A preliminary investigation revealed that the gunmen drove alongside the car and opened fire. Authorities believe it is possible that after the driver was shot and the car was forced off the highway, the gunmen approached the vehicle to ensure that all the car's passengers had been killed.
Guy Gonen, a Magen David Adom paramedic who arrived at the scene, told Channel 2 that his crew saw "a car that was pierced with dozens of bullets and inside there were four bodies. There was absolutely no chance of helping."
Defense Minister Ehud Barak was briefed on the attack by IDF chief of staff Gabi Ashkenazi and Shin Bet chief Yuval Diskin. Barak conferred by telephone with Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, who was on his way to Washington. He also spoke with Vice Prime Minister Silvan Shalom, who is serving as acting prime minister while Netanyahu is abroad.
"Unfortunately we are once again witness to the fact that while we are working to find ways to co-exist and create a reality of peace, there are those who continue to take the path of terror and are busy killing innocents," said Shalom.
"Today it is clearer more than ever that the real obstacle to peace is terrorism and the extremists who will do anything to send the entire region up in flames. It is incumbent on the Palestinian Authority to fulfill its obligations in the territories that are under its purview," Shalom said.
"We are giving full backing to the prime minister during the talks in the United States."
According to Barak, "This apparently is an attempt by depraved terrorists to harm efforts to move the diplomatic process forward and to try to harm the chances of peace talks that are beginning in Washington."
The attack prompted sharp reactions from West Bank settler leaders, who were quick to draw a link between the killings and the peace talks that are set to get underway. "It's about time that the leaders of Israel wake up from their delusions of an imaginary peace," said Zvi Bar Hai, the head of the South Hebron Hills regional council.
Lawmakers from right-wing parties called on Netanyahu to announce an immediate suspension of talks with the PA.
"Netanyahu must at once freeze the talks and concentrate on securing the peace for the citizens of Israel," said MK Uri Ariel (National Union ). "Now it is clear that the most violent period is when a diplomatic process is underway."
"Anyone who in recent months was complicit in building the myth of Abu Mazen [Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas] as the one who is in control on the ground must sober up and immediately cease and desist from continued actions aimed at strengthening the Palestinian army, which is being gradually established under American sponsorship," said MK Aryeh Eldad (National Union ).
MK Tzipi Hotovely, a hawkish member of Netanyahu's ruling Likud faction, said: "The terrorist organizations are sending a clear message by resuming their attacks on innocent Israelis. This is a warning sign to anyone who believes that concessions over the Land of Israel will lead to a solution to the conflict. There needs to be a firm response to terrorism, not concessions."
Fellow Likud MK Ofir Akunis added: "Every time Israel extends its hand for peace, the Palestinians make every effort to cruelly cut it off. The entire world can see this evening that Israel seeks peace while the Palestinians seek terror and violence."
According to Science and Technology Minister Daniel Hershkowitz, "Unfortunately, this horrific attack once again proves that there is no partner on the Palestinian side and that we must now consider if there is any point in holding these discussions."
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This terrorist attack is terrible! Hamas is shameless and stupid: non only it murdered innocent people but it also gave the world the proof that it needed (that they are terrorists for sport) - what will the Left Wing, around the world, say now? I didn't hear anybody rally against this attack; I didn't hear anybody condemning the non-government of Gaza (Hamas)...the world, but mainly the left wing, is hypocritical. No, Premier Netanyahu should not cancel peace talks: he should go there and show what we already know...that, unlike PA, Israel is committed to peace. Cheers
THE HUNDREDS OF PALESTINIAN CIVILIANS SHOT DEAD BY IDF, INCLUDING APPROX. 500 YOUNG CHILDREN AND INFANTS BOMBED AND BURNED TO DEATH WITH WHITE PHOSPORUS. MOREOVER, NO JEW COMPASSION FOR THE 9 TURKS MURDERED IN INTERNATIONAL WATERS BY THE IDF AS WELL.
Maybe they should join the Army along with all the Orthodox Jews who don't serve. Maybe they won't have so many kids if they had more to do.
it was o.k. for the I.D.F soldier to murder that 13 year old Palestinian child, so what.s the fuss over the settlers deaths. If the supposed gunman responsible for this shooting was brought before a Palestian Court maybe they would be exonerated too!
I don't think it says kill innocent people to make a political statement, if that is what they wanted to achieve.
According to Science and Technology Minister Daniel Hershkowitz, "Unfortunately, this horrific attack once again proves that there is no partner on the Palestinian side and that we must now consider if there is any point in holding these discussions." Israel has created Hamas for this reason. Everytime the Israelis find themselves in the corner and have to make some concessions Hamas jumps in and saves them. How can anyone believe israel is serious about peace when settlers from New York are allowed in the country, given a passport and a place to live (Palestinian property) and I WHO WAS BORN THERE IS NOT ALLOWED EVEN A VISIT???
Friends in Israel, never forgive, never forget. Go after these swines.
they killed innocent people, not settlers, not Israeli's not Jews, NO!, innocent human beings. This world is so mixed up.
But the lion is hungry, sees no way out and commits its final act. Israel knows no peace and never will as long as it tries to widen its hold in the mid-East.
after seeing the photo in the article i'm finding it hard to have much sympathy for the dead settlers. Fanatical religious colonizers should suffer the risks they run. I wish they hadn't been killed, but I wish even more that they'd made different choices
The one of a Happy Jewish Family, now torn apart or the one of Jewish Rescuers helping at the scene?
There are no genuine peace negotiations, only an exercise to convince the Palestinians to accept Tel Aviv's terms of surrender.
Remember the dancing Palestinians of 9/11, where we were told what they were doing, yet there is no sound on the video to translate. Another Jack Teitel perchance? If they'll murder an Israeli President...go figure... the stakes are far far higher now.... all those lucrative settlement contracts, infrastructure, et al, nothing is too low for some nut cases
It does not serve Israels cause that Israelis demand higher standards of conduct from "terrorists" than they do from the IDF. If the IDF are the "most moral army in the world" after carrying out a bloody campaign against the unarmed civilians of Gaza, then surely Hamas must be the most moral militia in the world for their much smaller operation.
were men not koyotees, they would not hide in schools, hospitals and residential homes- then civilian casualties would be much less. And if they did not shell Israeli cities with rickets there would not be war at all.
Please get a new hobby. Why not protest the hand loppers of Sierra Leone, or the rapists in Congo? How about sending a flotilla to block the Chinese from bribing African officials for mining right to run horribly dangerous mines at slave wages? Please send aid to the families of Guinean women who had pistols discharged up into their wombs by renegade soldiers. The PA gets more aid than anyone else in the world. Please get a hobby and go help someone else. Okay?
Ms. Durson, You know perfectly well the vast majority were not civilians. Please offer more useful discussion points.
Not so funny now is it?
It never was funny. It was horrific. But t-shirts don't translate into dirty deeds. For you to justify these killings with garish t-shirts is outlandish and morally reprehensible.
"It's about time that the leaders of Israel wake up from their delusions of an imaginary peace," said Zvi Bar Hai, the head of the South Hebron Hills regional council. Is this a joke? Is he and the Israeli public blind to the fact that his community and Israel's occupation and colonization of Palestinian land are the ones who are responsible for the delusions of an imaginary peace? WAKE UP! the rest of us are.
Gunpowder is starting to burn, the body count is about to increase. Both ISrael and her enemies meaning hamas, ISlamic jihad, Hizbullah and Syria as now looking at the means to attack ISrael . Orders have been given by tehran (debka.com) all that remains is to execute them. Whenever peace begins its delicate journey, it never fails that the interlopers such as hamas who bring nothing to the peace table and Hizbullah who bring even less begin their destructive ways to grind the peace process to a halt. If yhis does come true, will Abbas pull out once Irael gpoes on teh offensive. will Abbas find an exxcuse sayijng "we will not negotiate as long as Israel is attacking our briothers. That woukld indeed be a defining moment when Abbas defines himself and hiosn west bank palis as brothers of these terrpor groups. I hope he would not fall into teh trap laid by the likes of hamas and others. Should indeed such violence break out, I would hope that overwhemling force so completely disporportionate force is used to once and for all take out hamas, destroy Hizbullah ability to make war ever again and force Syria to call for immediate peace. UYes this is a big task and many will die, but ISrael needs total peace and quioet. You do not achieve such peace and quiet without using overwhelming force. Now we wait and see who pulls teh trigger on the next war. Will it be hamas, Syria, or Lebanon with Hizbullah or Syria
I really don't thaink that anyone outside of Israel gives a damn for the ffour Israelis dead in the Hebron Hills attack. Israelis as a whole were indifferent to the IDF killing more than a thousand Palestinian civilians during the Gaza op. That event really spoiled the "Israel as victim" role. If Israel is looking for any sympathy or understanding when things like this occur, they need to demand the same standards of behavior from their own "military arm" as they do from the Hamas military arm. Israeli Jews still cause far more suffering than they receive. Fixing the problem begins with taking responsibility for your own actions.
There is a difference between a military operation attempting to target terrorist to a blatant targeting of innocent civilians, one pregnant not to mention. Shame on you.
The vast majority of killed are civilians when israel conducts a "military" mission
Durson is not an awful person - Durson is a person who dosen't hesitate to say that black is black and white is white. She is right - I hate to say it but it is a fact - we should not close our eyes like a cat when drinking milk to the happenings here. We occupied their land, we kill innocent and unarmed men, women and children, we cut their fruit trees, we drop phosphorus bombs on them and hide behind the fallacy of killing the terrorists. The defination of terrorist nowadays is the one who we are fighting against. We are worse than terrorists to them. So we had to pay thank god we pay a very small price for what we do. Sometime I think if the Palestinians had even 35% of the military hardware we had - we would have been again a part of story. There would have been no Geography for us. The right thing to do is to divide Jerusalem, go back to 67 borders and live a peaceful and relaxed life. Just think the money being spent on buying the equipment for war if is used ont the welfare of our people - we will be the happiest and luckiest nation on earth.capita.
I am quite sure you cannot comment what "anyone" thinks. But as a propagandist, I think you know that. I'm still waiting for you to read the Alan Dershowitz response to the ignominious Goldstone report.
Maybe when Bibi has proved he is as gonadless as all the others, a Lieberman government will come, and then you and a whiole bunch of other talkbackers will finally have real reasons to scream
..from our blood?
and no doubt they will be shot dead whilst resisting arrest very shortly. However can someone tell me what Israeli civilians were doing driving around occupied territory?
Why all this crying and lamenting over the four deaths on your part. you forgotten or carnage in Gaza and how the number of deaths of men, women and children do you have the courage and made a real peace it deserves and returned some of the Palestinians rights, to a quiet land of peace and the killing stops
Executing four people at point-blank range is unadulterated murder... nothing else. This is not fighting occupation or heroic resistance. Because you can’t get Palestinian independence by murdering 4 civilian motorists. Only uncivilized cowards act in this way. Hamas and their military-wing, the Qassam Brigades who have taken credit for this atrocity... don’t have the humanity or the credibility to represent the Palestinians in Gaza or anywhere else.
Would you ask this question to Arabs killed in Israel within the 1948 borders? What were these Arabs doing in Israel? Even if they were PA arabs you would not ask this question. Because you believe Israel should be for Jews and Arabs while the PA state should be an apartheid judenrein state.
Jew are not allowed in Palestine! They should be killed for even thinking of going!
Were there no ilegal settlers and their abuses, there would be no crimes against them, that simple.
Just like in the 1929 massacre!
I wonder if the intellectuals and actors who so publicly boycotted a community of 17.000 Jews in Ariel will publish a letter boycotting the Arab towns like Ramallah who name streets and Schools after Jew killers. I am willing to bet if invited to perform in Hevron or Ramallah where the murderers of Jews reside and are protected and even glorified by public shrines, these loyal Zionists Israeli self proclaimed cultural and intellectual elite would run to appear. Makes one sick.
Your last sentence "makes one sick" is all based on your own bet. In other words, the things that makes you sick is all in your head. (I might have misunderstood you though. You might have meant that tha murder of the Israelis makes you sick, which it should make you as all kind of murder/killing are sick, but it didn't sound like that)
you think if Ariel was on full board from GosDep ( in cache ) they would mind?
My thesis is based on the fact that many of these same people have never criticized any action by Abu Mazen such as naming streets and schools after murderers. They repeatedly demonize Jewish reisdents of Judea and Samaria but they never voice similar hatred for those of our neighbors (which regrettably includes a large proportion) who use school curriculum with content from the protocols of zion and who glorify jew killers and Kew killing calling it "resistance". As if random murders of Jewish civilians is a legitimate form of "resistance". The moral indignation of these people (and all of the radical leftist Jew haters in Europe and on US campuses) is very selective. I live here and closely follow the public pronouncements of these amoral self proclaimed intellectual elites and I challenge you or anyone else to show me an instance where they created a publicity stunt with a public pronouncement condemning islamic incitement against Jews or murder of our citizens in Judea and Samarria (as opposed to an occasional individual statement of condolence or opposition to these acts- i mean a list of 150 of these characters making a joint public pronouncement like this one).. You will not find it. They "understand" the difficulties of the palestinian side much more than they empathize with their fellow Jews, even if they disagree with them.
Hamas is the elected party in Gaza and if will be free indeed elections in West Bank pronanly will be elected also rthere .Hamas in not terrorist more than Irgun,Lehi and other Jewish organization.Dont hear Israeli propaganda about terrorism ,or "we have not partner."Read Ephraim Halevi lines at Wikipedia:"Halevy believes that Israel should take up Hamas’s offer of a long-term truce and try negotiating, because the Islamic movement is respected by Palestinians and generally keeps its word, he said. He pointed to the cease-fire in attacks on Israel that Hamas declared two years ago and has largely honored. “They’re not very pleasant people, but they are very, very credible,” Halevy said"
To Irgun or any other Jewish organisation in th e1940's is incredible. These organisations never deliberitly targetted children, civilians, women, pregnant in this case. The targets would be military and yes there were civilian casualties. But it was never the sole purpose, or the target, which in Hamas case this is what they crave the more deaths the merrier so please do not compare the two
The violence has never really stopped. hamas does not want ISrael to have peace because that is their reason for being. Bomb abnd destroy and kill. That is hamas death culture. Sad but true. No offer of a long term peace will ever be kept by hamas. eventually hamas will do a major strike on ISrael and trhat will be the excuse the IDf and politicians need to finish them off. Sooner the better
is it time to speak to Cuba?
The terrorist come from a milieu of hate and religious fanaticism. At least the 9/11 mass murderers had the courage to die for their fascist Allah. These Hamas killers drive by an innocent civilian car and open up with machine guns on men women and children. They are cowards and they are sewage. The problem is that a large percentage of the Islamic population (together with the deranged radical leftists throughout the world and even in Israel) glorify them in their murder. The PA will name streets and schools after them and their families will get lifelong stipends as a reward for their sons mass murder. This is the culture the west refuses to acknowledge exists. It is based on Islamic and tribal values of elitism, misogyny, homophobia, anti-semitism, anti-Christianity, war and destruction of all other religions shrines (such as Cathedrals _like in Turkey- temples - in India- , synagogues - in Jerusalem, Buddha statues - in Afghanistan, etc.). And they always build shrines at the place of their murderous victory, like the Mosque at Ground Zero. Western Europe is starting, very hesitantly, to pay attention to the threat of Islam. France banned the Borka dress, Switzerland banned Minarets, Germany and Holland are close behind. Western civilization is under attack and if we love freedom and equality, democracy and religious tolerance, take a close look at the Muslim world and start building your bunker.
anyone who intentionally and with premeditation kills innocent civilians is a cold blooded murderer. anyone who forever reason tries to excuse these murders lacks all morality.
Same goes for IDF who kills thousands and thousands of innocents - remember GAZA, Lebanon ?
In the best tradition of the "palestine " resistance. They killed jews but they also killed a lot of palestinians as they did in Gaza. Indeed, Hammas is not racist. They just love to kill in name of Allah. The timing and aesthetic of Hammas criminal acts deserve a mention. Dropping their own Fatah brothers from 10 stores buildings is a preferable way. When do they kill jews ???? Precisely in the moment that some hope for the palestinians appears in the horizon. Obama impulses a peace process staged to make Israel withdraw from Judea an Samaria. And.... then,...ups .... they come again. When does palestine terrorism increases???? Precisely when peace processes restart . Corollarly to israel: Stick to the status quo, conflict mamagement instead of peace process, and keep settling in non populated chuncks of Judea and Samaria. Palestiniasn love that.
How about trying to coexist in your own country for a change, like say in Israel - wherever she may one day like to define her borders.
it's people like you who keep the cycle of violence in the region going... this has got nothing to do with coexisting..they would have their own country now if they were responsible for their actions but they can not help themselves when it comes to killing innocent israelis.... and why do you think it is that nor egypt,jordan, syria or lebanon want to take the palestinians.. if they felt so bad for them why wouldn't they bring them in to their countries??? because no body wants them! so yet again it becomes israels problem to deal with.
Nobody wants them? .... who are "them" that you are so ignoramously describe. These are living people, families , villages, farmers and children who have been living here for generations. With their own culture, traditions and aspiration. And come along and want to "flog" them to highest bidder as merchandise. Where are you coming from...?
Killing unarmed men and women is wrong, no matter you put it, it is just wrong and can not be excused under any circumstances. PA and all Palestinians should do them selves a favor and they should help to find and punish people like this. I am not saying settlers are OK but I am saying that murdering them is wrong and will only serve to bring more sorrow to both Palestinians and Israelis.
Yesterday's murders are what Hamas, and other killers, call the Feast of Ramadan. A celebration of death of the infidels.
I have a number of items I would like to address here, however, since your readers would like this to be a simple and easy talk back I will address one. No talks with terrorists, no negotiations with terrorists, no more Ms or Mr. Nice gal.guy. Come on to them IDF, scare the h---out of them and do not back down. I am ready to aim, shoot, and fire, as long as you train me a senior citizen of Israel, how to use a weapon. Practice? no way, I'll practice on the enemy.
You are a true patriot. All we hear are Arab lies, justifying blatant murder of innocent people. May the L-rd grant you long yearsm and many many Israelis see this is the path, the only path. Shana Tova.
that the other side feels exactly the same way. That way, there will be less of both of you to deal with when both sides are ready to sit down and talk real peace.
Just think,these Hamas are jumping for joy at this barbaric act of murder,how brave these scum are,these scum will be brought to justice,just like all the others. The problem is they do not care,as life means nothing to them.
As the peace talks begin, the extremists on both sides will emerge to destroy those talks. This is what has happened historically, and is what's happening now. The true test of the talks will be how both parties react. If cooler heads prevail, these attacks will be seen for what they are. Do not let a few extremists destroy the chance for peace.
the palestinians are most definitely anti zionist, but most dont hate jews . this is not a contradiction. kiryat arba is notorious for the extremist politics and violence of its settlers.
Don't make statements like you know what you're talking about. I bet you have never been to Israel, much less Kiryat Arba. How would you know about their politics, extremist or otherwise. You are just talking smack, and you haven't a clue. If anything, the arabs in Hevron are the extremists. Please don't insult us, like you are knowledgeable. Far from it.
I have been to Hebron. And the Old City. And was physically threatened and insulted by the illegal settlers there. Palestinians, on the other hand, get regular beatings! With the police patrolling and watching...
And have done so for the past 25 yrs. They beat elderly Pal shepherds, they beat Pal school children, they close the Arab market place bc they can.I've been there and seen it . These Jews are fanatics, violent, and shouldn't be there.
...no one gets hurt terrorism hasn't managed to terrorize a peaceful civilian population...?? Of course it has...!! And this has been the case since 1920: a war-of-attrition-through-terror by the Muslim-Arabs of the Land against the Jewish population.
Since 1920? I agree to anyone who condemn killing of these Israelis, but not because they are Israelis, i agree becuase killing is allways wrong. Sumple as that. But don't call the settlers a "peacefull civilian population" because that's nothing but a lie. They take their children and families in to a warzone, and build their lifes at stolen land, at a land where there are no peace. That's nothing peaceful about that.
I feel sorry for those four people and i condemn the evil behind those bullets. Israel and Palestine is right about to find a solution and make peace and somebody is trying to prevent it. This is a terrorist attack indeed. Any attack on civilians is dishonarable and shameful. But what i am afraid of is Israeli officials and Palestine counterparts just obey this shameful distraction and halt the ongoing peace process. They shouldn't let terrorists dictate their terms. Bibi and Abbas shouldn't obey to their will. Furthermore, Israelis are talking about a pay back. I'm also afraid that they will hurt Palestinian civilians in revenge. Israel still needs to learn to differentiate herself from Hamas.
peace talks my friend or foe? Piece talks that is all this is, Israel has learned donenough over the years, months, and days, now it is time to have the toughies take over and forget the negotiations, what negotiations? Level heads need not apply,
they all deserve punishment, although reserve assasination for the guilty ones
Israel needs to be specfic in its payback. Bombing a tunnel wont do. hamas leader haniyeh is a good start, followed by Khaled Mashaal who also is a inciter of violence against ISrael. Them work your way down teh ladder of authpority for hamas. targetted killings were efective three years ago and brough hamas seeking hudnas . Time to do it again. Precise strikes on their command and contriol. Now that hamas is armed with anti air missiles it will be more difficult but certainly not impossible. How big a crater does a 2000 pouind bomb make on haniyehs house?
Launch your rockets to Gaza to anyplace where Haniyah might be. You would also kill lots of Gaza civilians AGAIN! So what's your difference from Hamas?
to stop the peace talks. If there is no just peace agreement for both Palestinians and Jews - there will be more incidents such as this
U.S.A Jewish community supports you to get the Arabs from the Palestinian Lack of Any Authority Areas and hit them with Jewish Might!!.Show NO MERCY and watch the Politically correct hypocrite fascists scream. When Jews are killed Israels critics and enemies want Israel to be pacifist and not defend herself. When Arabs die on their way to murder Jews they want the Arabs to have a right to vengance or else they want to sue! ie. that "Jurist with Zionist Credentials"(The same credentials as the wise men of chelm) comes to turn everything bizarre his Justice becomes injustice,etc. But we are not going to be intimidated. Ehud Barak, may the Lord strengthen your hand !
a few years ago, a headline in Haaretz screamed that Israeli soldiers "Murder Fetus". this gem accompanied an article by Gidon Levy. Seems that an Israeli soldier had shot a pregnant palestinian woman. Now that the victim is a Jewish woman, no such wild headline accompanied this act. Why?
Too busy whining for his arab friends.
At a momentous time when direct peace negotiations could yield something tangible, the enemies of peace once again show they are willing to murder innocents to derail the peace process. I have a hunch this was a direct order from Iran. They are opposed to peace between Israel and the "Palestinians".
This event is surely shocking. I checked the Turkist newspaper the Hurriyet Daily News and not one word is mentioned of this attack! All hell broke loose when Israelis boarded their so-called Humanitarian Vessels. When Israel will retaliate for this, the Turkish media.will go nuts. Turkey is no friend of Israel.
The thousands of Qassams on Israel makes that quite clear. Hamas calls all Israel sacred Arab Waqf Since when has Hebron been Arab land?
No peace ever, a "greater Israel" on ALL of Palestine, 62 years of talking about peace talks has achieved NOTHING. While the death of the 4 jews is regrettable, what else do you expect while Bibi and Shas are in charge.
That most of "Palestine" is in fact in JORDAN, the Brit-installed Beduin minority monarchy RULING over 85% of the Palestinian majority there???? Has it EVEN BEGUN to cross your mind that all "PAL ARABS" ALSO SIMPLY CALL THEMSELVES ARABS, LIKE 99.9% OF OTHERS IN THE MIDEAST? Have you any STINKING idea at all of how small Israel is - in any of its borders? Or are you just another unconditional Jew-hater, like SO many others?
Since you like to quote it.
Thank you, Professor Sternhell. It seems that someone has taken your advice. Happy now?
for an op-ed from you on this attack...
Peace negotiations between Fatah and Israel must continue on, this is the price for Fatah's relative quietness for the past few years. As for Hamas, they will pay the price of more gunships into Gaza - it's not a matter of if but when.
What happened last night is brutal, unjustified, cold blooded murder there is no doubt about that. To blame an entire people for it is unaccaptebale and is the problem that extremists on the far right of both sides try to draw both palestinians and Israeli's in to. You my friend are a part of that problem.....one that has dictated decades of collective punishment.
I am astounded at the complete lack of sympathy on the part of posters towards the killing of innocent humans. I side wholeheartedly with the Israelis in the conflict. However, when I hear of Palestinians being killed, I still feel for the victims and for the family. I am shocked at the blatant anti-Semitism and disregard for human life. Besides, if we have learned anything from this conflict it is that violence breeds more violence, so if the gunmen think that their actions will lead to any backing down on the part of the settlers, or on the part of the Israeli people, they are mistaken
Unless the Palestinian representatives to these "peace" meetings unequivocally condemn this attack, Israel should not negotiate. One needs to at least assume the intent is for peace.
4 innocent Jews have just been murdered and the haters come crawling out of the woodwork with their "comments" Just wait until the Israeli army avenges themselves on the perpetrators then you will have something to cry about.
I deplore the recent killings but, Rabbi Lazaros, settlers are hardly innocent and one of your mentors has just called for genocide of the Palestinians.
how holy
What happened is very sad, but these people were settlers who deliberately chose to leave Israel's safety and move to occpupied territory to live in illegal settlements on Palestinian land. We need to bring back all Israelis to Israel.
Why can't Jews who live in the territories live their regardless if it becomes a Palestinian state. They would be citizens of that state??? Why do they murder Jews in Jerusalem Haifa and Hebron
We need to bring Israelis back to Yehuda and Shomron - the HEART of tiny Israel - no matter how much it scares U.S. wannabees like you!
Josh how would you feel if members of your family were murdered by terrorists? You cant feel the pain of a fellow Jew. I do.
I would like to begin with condemning the attack that took place. Gunning down unarmed men and women is a crime, whoever they are. Killing an unborn child is unconscionable. Whoever supports such an act is sick. However, please do not say the situation in the West Bank is "calm". I have spent around 3.5 weeks in Hebron this summer with CPT and ISM. On an almost daily basis, we were responding to settler attacks on Palestinians. Palestiniansliving close to settlements have their houses attacked, their children are beaten up and stoned on their way to school, livestock are stolen, crops are set on fire, and worse. At the beginning of August, a friend and I were beaten up by settlers. His leg was bruised, my nose was broken and I had to have surgery after a settler swung a metal pipe into my face. A Palestinian friend has his home invaded 2 weeks later and they used clubs to break his knee. The attack was in my opinion unjustified and I am not defending it. But please do not say there is "relative calm" in the West Bank. Palestinians living in and around Hebron close to the settlements live in constant fear and terror.
in Judea and Samaria and there are far more attacks by Pals against Jews there than the other way around. "Relative calm" is not accurate, neither is the view from a one-way glass saying Pals are attacked every day when Jews are attacked by Pals every day too. It is the Jew who lives in Judea and Samaria in caged ghettos and constant fear and terror - it is the Pal who roams the land free, not the Jew. Simply see for yourself.
"Simply see for yourself"... I just came back from there only a bit more than a week ago and HAVE seen for myself. I have seen a group of 70 settlers come up on Palestinian land and hold a rally in front of their houses, a group of settler youth then threw rocks at their sheep as parents looked on... and the cops and the army stood there and watched. They only banned us from going to the Palestinian homes to see the people there and if they were OK.... the Palestinians would never be allowed to enter a settlement... settlers in Hebron carry guns openly on the street... Palestinians don't. The army and police protect the settlers. A Palestinian friend of ours was attacked and called for help, they hung up on him and for 2 hours no police arrived. They only came after he called me and I called them- initially they refused to help until I told them I am a Canadian citizen and am on my way there... then they showed up. They were afraid of me getting hurt (again), they didn't care about the Palestinian.
These murders were to be expected.There is more to come.Hamas will not stop until we find a way to cut off the heads of it's bosses,and cut them we must
Clearly I might deplore the ruthless monsters who murdered the settlers. And I do. Might I be allowed to point out that if those 'Settlers' had chosen to live in Israel, they never could have been murdered? I don't think that is a point which Haaretz censors would allow.
What a joker you must be.
Mr. Lincoln obviously does not know history. The predecessors of those monsters were constantly engaged in cross border terrorism before 1967 -- with fedayeen infiltrating from Gaza, el Fath from the West Bank and Syrian shelling from the Golan. It;s time you read up on the facts instead of letting your prejudices drive you.
Sure, it's their own fault.
How come so many Israelis have been murdered in places like Tel Aviv and Jerusalem? Without the barrier there would be more today.
If those Jews decided to keep themselves ethnically cleansed from territories only held by Jordan for 19 years, don't you, racist prick?
Haaretz is a very left wing paper and any thought or comment going away from the centre will pe published/printed without hesitation. Centre-right thoughts, on the other hand, are regularly culled by the censor. On the other hand, your comment: you're correct. Had those Jews lived in the central parts, none of this would have happened. And yet, this doesn;t happen to the Arabs who live in Israel... why not? Why the double standard of treatment? You could also say that had the Gazans opted to be transferred out of Gaza then there would be no need to attack them as they wouldn't send missiles over. You could say that had the imperialist monsters who worked in the World Trade Centre been working elsewhere, they would not have been killed. And why didn't those Jews leave Europe in the 30s? Surely you could say the Holocaust was their fault. You're an idiot.
What will constitute "Palestine" is subject to negotiations and not to libero-fascist whims.
to point out to you that hundreds of Israelis were killed and maimed by the Palestinian "freedom fighters" within the 1967 and 1948 borders of Israel. Every time there is a chance for peace, the "freedom fighters" seemed to be hellbent on destroying this chance.
The point you miss is that Jews have lived continually for millennia in Judea and Samaria - continual, age-old Jewish settlement there, longer than any other extant group there. Judea and Samaria ARE part of tiny Israel, whether you will like it or not.
Thousands of Hamas missiles on Israel and Hamas themselves say you are wrong.
Those Israelis who live in Israel are in danger. QASSAMS and mortars, Shalit 's kidnapping, bombing of buses and bars.
Hamas could kill Israelis anytime they wanted. They obviously chose this to make a statement = "We want to be involved in the talks." They are the democratically elected govermnent, filthy as you may find them to be, they are far less corrupt than Fatah - that's why they were elected in the first place. Any Palestinian will tell you that much. Peace talks without their involvement will indeed fail.
If Jews have no right to live in their Judean and Samarian homes, then one million Arabs have no right to live in the "67 borders of Israel". You can't have it both ways. The purpose of talks is to resolve this discrepancy peacefully. If the Arabs would like to resolve this by war, that can be arranged - they should look at their history at attempting this since 1948.
Egypt is an Arab country, as is Jordan. Arabs are not products of a manufacturer. They are seperate individuals and nations. Many are Christian. Many are my friends and neighbors. Earl in Haifa
This is not an act of terrorism. It is an act of war.
No, it's an act of terrorism.
Hence the peace talks.
Want to talk of idiotic semantics? "Anti-semitism" is an idiotic misnomer coined by an anti-Jew for a anti-Jew purpose; to "whitewash" Jew-ate in anti-Jew Europe. We are Semitic like the Arabs and indigenous to one teensy, tiny slice of the MidEast, unlike the Arabs. "Land for Peace"???? What whacko, sick greed. 57 Muslim states, 21 Arab states - you'd tink that'd be enough. Insane greed. Totally insane.
Yes for the illegal occupiers not for the Palestinians who have suffered every day and still are suffering because of occupation.
(the original, more natural and neutral term). It is used by the press in order to erase the connection betweeen the Jews and Judea, their homeland.
Welcome to reality!
Thanks to all the leftists that have weaken Israel and support the clown in the white house. This is what happen when you believe in illutsion of peace with someone who wants to ultimatelly kill you. Stop the nonsense and take back what is our G-d given right.
and he is certainly not a real estate agent.
disgraceful, what a cruel and cowardly attack on unarmed civilians. there should be no rest, till the gunmen are arrested. and if this is the way its going to be then all israellis should be armed to protect themselves. and if palestine cant stop these kind of attacks then there should be no palestine.
do you mean unarmed civilians like were murdered in Gaza ?
Israel killed more than 300 children under the age of 17 in its assault on Gaza. Where is your outrage at that? As the old saying goes, you reap what you sow ...
No need to be a clueless fruitloop about the issues.
... And, the Palestinians launched rockets into Israel for a week, solid prior to Cast Lead. And, Hamas used its own civilians for cover to attack from and to hide among, stupid witch.
The ones that Hamas used as cover. Not Israel's fault.
if you're too blind to see the difference between a war and this, then I pity your ignorance
they're just as dead.
SDHD, why do you spend your entire day writing dishonest comments? It's ridiculous. No one believes your lies here.
Many soldiers have testified as much. Schools and hospitals were targeted. Enough with your kooky lies. Isn't it time for you nap, old man?
They used schools and hospitals as weapons depots, dippy.
You do know that Hamas used its own civilians and civilian structures to conduct war from, don't you? Anti-Israelis are morons.
please show exactly why they were there?
The same as palestininians are doing in Israel. Living there.
They have been living in Hebron even since before the massacre in 1929. News to you? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1929_Hebron_massacre
new to this indeed.
If you ever visited Israel, you'd know that JEWS LIVE IN THE WEST BANK. In Israel proper there are Jewish communities and Arab communities. Same in the West Bank. DUH!
please show exactly why they were there? Wait, it was to commit terror. The best way for Hamas to stop settlements is through peace. But Hamas does not really care about settlements, they really only care about the destruction of Israel.
These "SETTLERS" are living the LIFE as JEWS in G-D's Land called ISRAEL...Israel belongs to the JEWS...End of discussion, or read the so called BIBLE, as stated in Black and white letters.
are you seriously saying that over 100,000 must make way for a few hundred ?
"The same as palestininians are doing in Israel." Those Palestinians are "Israelis", and they are living "in Israel" - as they should. The Palestinians "in the West Bank" are "Palestinians", living "in Palestine" - as they should. The settlers are "Israelis", living "outside Israel" - quite illegally. His question is therefore as valid as your response is vapid i.e. in that comparison the odd-one-out is definitely "the settler".
living on an illegal settlement?
JK: "They have been living in Hebron even since before the massacre in 1929. News to you?" Oh, yeah, very much so. The dude asked the question about "Israeli's", not about "Jews", and you responded with a mention of events from 1929. There were "Israelis" back then? Heck, Sherman, that's certainly news to me......
"If you ever visited Israel, you'd know that JEWS LIVE IN THE WEST BANK." The West Bank, of course, is not in "Israel", and not even the Israeli govt pretends that it is. "In Israel proper" [snicker] [chortle] Words as loose bowel movements [chuckle] "there are Jewish communities and Arab communities" and they are all ISRAELI communities. "Same in the West Bank." Yeah there are, indeed, Israeli communities in the West Bank. The question is therefore very valid i.e. what the f**k are ISRAELI COMMUNITIES doing in Israeli-occupied territory?
John learn history and English Occupied is defined as The so called West Bank was part of the Mandated for Palestine It was forcibly attack and conquered by he Jordanians in 1948. THEY OCCUPIED it until THEY began shooting in June 1967 and WE Israelis liberated what was according to the League of Nations was part and parcel for the -quote -Mandated Homeland for the Jewish people -end quote So factually IT IS NOT OCCUPIED but LIBERATED territory
Who cares what you call them? Even if they are "Jews" as you like to say. These are the people who have been living there for years.
That's the end of aggressors ... what goes around comes around what are u expecting from a nation who is living under a very harsh occupation since 1948?
... as "palestinians". Never was, and never will.
What nation?
Those are the words of the great Willy Wonka, who also, coincidentally, preached honesty and morality. "Occupation" is merely a form of Arab propaganda. What you really mean to say is what do you expect from terrorists....
Palestinians are living under far greater and harsher extremes by both the Lebanese/Hizbollah than any Palestinian in Israel, West Bank and Gaza !!!!! You just shot yourself in the foot; Palestinians are living in shocking conditions just over the border and you have the goul to judge Israel? .
It would help if you looked at the way you are treating the Palestinians in your own country. You have kept them in refugee camps for 60 years, deny them jobs and dignity, and regularly carry out blood-letting to help diminish their numbers. Have you any possible response to this? Don't come back at me with "well Israel do..." No! What to do you do?
You are in great denial. Palestinians are a reality. Sticking your head in the sand will not change that fact.
I agree with you by 99%. Yes, there are people called for some unclear reason "palestinians", several million of them. Under no circumstances I am going to deny that fact. The problem is in the name itself: they are residents of Arab origin, living in the land that for thousands of years belonged to the Jewish people. I can see no problem if each of them makes one of two choices: a) sincerely declares his/her loyalty to Israel as Jewish, democratic, Zionist state, and applies for permanent residency (with - possibly - a consequent ability to apply for citizenship; this is up to the Knesset do decide); or b) move to one of the Arab countries existing on this planet, and live in peace, friendship, harmony and security with their ethnic brothers. Anyone to find _reasonable_ objections against those ideas ?
Duh? You who keep the Palestinians- your Arab brothers - as refugees locked in camps with NO status fro three generations you dare speak! Talking about unmitigated gall! Please why was a Palestinian state NOT created in the West Bank during the Jordanian OCCUPATION from 1948- 1967 or the Egyptian OCCUPATION and control of Gaza from 1948 -1967? I would like an INTELLIGENT if possible reply? If the Palestinian brothers of yours wanted a home WHY? Did they not return to Gaza or the West Bank then? While you are at it explain why my family was forced to leave the old city of Jerusalem in 1948. Am I a refugee with 60 years of privileges from UNRWA?
Wake up - Palestinians are a reality and if not tomorrow someday- maybe not in your lifetime but for sure they are going to get their homeland. No people in the world had stood up for their rights as the Palestinians against continuous attrocites of Israel. Millions of Gazan's are living in an open jail for years. We can't bend their spirit nobody can - So bottom line is there will be a Palestine on the Israeli occupied land of their whether Linda likes it or not.
What is the proportional response?.
If they are Palestinians..then the Palestinian courts should deal with them
No one should do this to fellow human beings. While the settlements are illegal, such brutality only backfires on the perpetrators who spoil the chances of peace and an eventual resolution to the illegal settlements. My sincere condolences to the grieving families.
yet you rained white phosphorous down on them in Gaza and no Israeli thought it a big deal.
How is it that you conveniently forget the 7000 rockets that those vile gazans rained down onto Israeli cities, unprovoked? Kenneth have another snappy answer for that?
who are you to know many israelis reaction on the gaza war back then? it is just incredible how people here comment without being involved(neither pal nor jew), taking a poor one sided view is just ridiculous if you have never even travelled the countries. and yes i call everything eastern from the checkpoints palestinian country, it is theirs and no one will ever change it. i just wonder sometimes whether maybe certain people in the west are actually not interested in a peace between the two... but then blood for oil, colonial robbery like back in the dark ages...
Simply go to a refugee camp and ask what Zionism has done to their families. Zionism has killed them, stolen from them, and humiliated them. You get what you give.
How can there still be refugees from over 60 years ago?
arab violence and nonstop wars and intifadas are the reason they are living the way they do. you get what you give.
You cannot say things like this if you have not experienced which I assume you didn't.
The Palestinians on the other hand that find themselves in refugee camps in Arab lands have mostly their foolish leaders and current Arab governments to blame for their predicament. The Palestinians that didn't believe in the Arab armies' hyped-up, fanatical call to vacate the area and return as conquerers to grab everything, even Jewish cities and farmlands, lost out. They should have known better to believe Arab rhetoric that blatantly lies to "save" Arab pride, certainly something not worth saving when the results are so dysfunctional. Israel on the other hand absorbed their immigrants forced out of Arab lands not because of any wrong doing but just because they're Jews and are highly prejudiced against. Get an education and then get a life before you post your nonsense here!
Harold - you play the role the Palestinians wish you to play. Their propaganda portraying themselves as Israeli victims forever doomed is just that, propaganda.
why make a fuss ? you killed a thousand of them in Gaza and it barely rated a mention.
Which media source are you reading? There have been many fusses, resolutions, protests throughout the world in regards to Israel's actions in Gaza. Forget if our response was or was not justified. So, don't even suggest that this is not main media front page material. Bottom line, this is a terrorist act when you shoot down a family as was done. Also, we have seen this occur whenever peace talks begin.You just appear not to know much about the Middle East to make such a comment. Go back to your Saturday cartoons.
no one mentions Cast Lead? Are you a hermit from the backwaters that just made it back to society? Check the UN reports from this week or any publication that covers the Middle East
we make a fuss because savages shooting bullets into a car of people is crazy sad and then presumably educated people saying "yes but" the day after it happens is almost sadder. if this needs to be explained then humanity has no hope
What definition Humanity has in your understanding.
what does it take to get illegal squatters out of the west bank? this is the only thing that works
Your talkback tries to justify the cold-blooded murder of innocent civilians by Palestinian terrorists. You should be ashamed of yourself! There is no justification for the brutal killing of civilians, settlers or not!
except for the period the invading Arab armies ethnic cleansed the Jews.
1. Read the description of the murders. 2. Read talkback number 1 (illegal squatters...). 3. Understand what morally bankrupt evil people there are out there, whose hatred of Jews is so extreme, that they write talkback number 1, about the murder of the pregnant woman.
Where's your humanity? 4 people were brutally shot (one pregnant) for no other reason than their home address. Your display of inhumanity is disgusting and alarming.
Thus any Mexican, and no Mexicans are not a race, who may be living on American soil, illegally, should be murdered as well? Or is your sense of justice only meant for Jews?
Israel has the historical, religious and legal right to the land of Israel. The squatters are Arab
I think history here would prove that it is one of the many things that does not work. but i assume this is too deep for your crass mind
Actually, you have no idea, Dan. The most recent genetic evidence clearly shows that Jews -- yes, even Ashkenazi Jews -- and Palestinians can trace their histories back to the Levant at the same time period. There are so many genetic similarities that, in the most literal sense, the people you hate so much are essentially yourselves. So much for the "Arab interloper" argument; so much for the "we were the original inhabitants, so we can boot all these Arabs out" canard, too.