Reform rabbi: Israel's pluralism threatened by new conversion law

This 'rabbi' says you can pick and choose from the basket of Judaism. Yeah, that sums up the emptiness of the Reform movement. As for her 200 converts, if I allowed picking and choosing and her level of learning, I could convert 2,000 people in a day.

Excellent article. It's about right. Perhaps only 30%of Jews worlwide are Orthodox. Even Jews by birth decide eventually to be Baaim Teshuvah. This is a gateway, an opening, whereby if they want to pursue further, they can choose to go that route. Anyway, hooray for the Reformist Movement which allows women to be rabbis, even though it is said that we ARE a kingdom of priests and a Holy nation, and all were pressent at the Revelation on Mount Sinai, both men AND women. The history of the reform movement and its luminaries IS very interesting, and unfortunate in that we sometimes don't see Amalek, when he is right in front of us. "...in every generation".

So, conversion is based on these punctilious halachic guidelines and strict observance of the Orthodox rules, or it is not a genuine Jewish conversion and you are not a real Jew. However, if you have your Jewish mother's mitochondrial DNA, but never enter a synagogue, don't eat kosher, don't know how to daven, and don't have any interest in Jewish culture you are Jewish. On the other hand, if you are a sincere patrilineal, or reform / conserv. convert who attends synagogue, knows how to daven in Hebrew, and is a member of a Jewish community you are not Jewish. This is so screwed up as to be unbelievable.

Hi, in case you didn't know, in the eyes of most of the developed world the intrajewish quarrels about the understanding and interpretation of their particular bronze age mytholgy seem absolutely ridiculous. Have a nice day

Can any of you holy people explain how on of our founding mothers, Rachel, was converted? I don't believe she went through any lengthy obtuse conversion process? The story goes that she just declared to Naomi, that your people are my people, walla, became a Jew and first matriarch of the King David Lineage.

I am an athiest,, no good second rate gsmut Jew I dont give tuppence for the torah, shabat, reform , consensevative or haredi. they make me sick up to my neck as i believe that all people are equal and must be treated as such and religion simply sets people against one another. However as my folks were jews and so were theirs way back until time began I am considered as a Jew. I am ok with that , but if the orthodox dont think Iam a jew thats just fine too. I think it really unfair for all those poor souls who work so hard at trying to be jewish to be denied that simple human right to be part of the religion of their choice.

First of aLl I converted to reform judaism 2yr ago this is one of the best things I have ever done. I am very disapointed with many of the events I have been reading about lately First of all no one but adonai can delegitimate my jewishness Some ppeople have made a big fat idol out of the halaka if I had just heaRd about judaism from the haredi I.would think that their god was halakha and hashem was ahelpfull spirit thaT helped one to keep the halakha The halakha was for mostly intefering with our ability to socalise with gentiles keeping us safe from assimiliating this certianly works today with The haridim The haridim keep the halakha and some of them Are mean as hell As far As israel goes it saddens me to say that it is a land of hatred ,many layers of hatred the only reason I would want to go there is if I were fleeing for my life

The real issue here is usually obfuscated, and deliberately so, by Reform rabbis. Leaving conversion INSIDE Israel in the hands of the Israeli Rabbinate and in accordance with Halacha has NO BEARING WHATSOEVER on members of Reform Temples in the USA. It DOES, however, reduce the legitimacy of Reform "rabbis" and their power to profit from their social status. Because there are a rather limited number of Reform "rabbis" who cannot fight this alone, they deliberately couch the argument in terms that will offend their membership, hoping that their numbers will weigh in. This is dishonest money-grubbing on the part of Reform rabbis. When members of Reform Temples understand how they have been taken advantage of by their "rabbis", they leave those Reform Temples for something more genuine. Keeping Reform "rabbis" out of the conversion business is thus a direct threat to the profitability of Reform "rabbis" - who will squeal the loudest.

let people discuss forever what exactly it should mean to be a jew, the meaning of halakha etc. but in the modern, secular state that the zionists (in the positive sense) instituted as a homeland for the jewish people you can't have any form of religious coercion, not to speak of coercion by one dominant religious group. that means you can't have discrimination either. at the birth of zionism, & indeed of the state, the jewish 'tree' had already grown into all kinds of directions, incl. a completely secularized one, & the idea of a modern state, based on immigration rights acc. to the law of return, can't just be hijacked by those who believe thay're entitled to exerting relig. influence - BY LEGAL MEANS - over everybody else, even if the intention is to 'preserve' the jews as a people. the idea was to make a state w/clearly hebrew /jewish character, but a modern one w/freedoms for all. that can be done in abundant measure without in any way infringing on basic rights & on equality. leave the actual religious content to God & people's own free will, not STATE PRESSURE. it will most likely turn ot better that way anyway. the state as such shouldn't in any way be involved in halakhic decisions, interpretations etc., although it will of course be supportive of the practice of judaism. it was herzl (& eventually ben gurion) who made this state, not moshe, & if you indeed do want another kind of state, you should expect God to send another one & take it over. that's all there is to this.

let people discuss forever what exactly it should mean to be a jew, the meaning of halakha etc. but in the modern, secular state that the zionists (in the positive sense) instituted as a homeland for the jewish people you can't have any form of religious coercion, not to speak of coercion by one dominant religious group. that means you can't have discrimination either. at the birth of zionism, & indeed of the state, the jewish 'tree' had already grown into all kinds of directions, incl. a completely secularized one, & the idea of a modern state, based on immigration rights acc. to the law of return, can't just be hijacked by those who believe thay're entitled to exerting relig. influence - BY LEGAL MEANS - over everybody else, even if the intention is to 'preserve' the jews as a people. the idea was to make a state w/clearly hebrew /jewish character, but a modern one w/freedoms for all. that can be done in abundant measure without in any way infringing on basic rights & on equality. leave the actual religious content to God & people's own free will, not STATE PRESSURE. it will most likely turn ot better that way anyway. the state as such shouldn't in any way be involved in halakhic decisions, interpretations etc., although it will of course be supportive of the practice of judaism. it was herzl (& eventually ben gurion) who made this state, not moshe, & if you indeed do want another kind of state, you should expect God to send another one & take it over. that's all there is to this.

A study was made of the dscendants of Chacham Theodore Gaster of London's Spanish and Portugese Synagogue at the turn of the century. It appears that all his great grandchildren are fine upstanding people -- BUT none are Jewish ! And he was a leading Orthodox Rabbi. Same applies to German Orthodox Rabbi Moses Mendelsohn. Assimilation is very attractive even to those who are observant. Karl Marx came from a rabbinical family, and look what he became.

My Christian or Gentile friends can also pick and choose from customs in the basket of Judaism, do what they fancy and ignore the rest. You really don't have to be Jewish to be Reform. Some Christian groups have a Passover seder, others have a day similar to Yom Kippur; in the old days many kept Sunday as a Christian Shabbos with almost everything shut, etc. It could be a Reform Club with Jews picking from the Christian basket as well -- special dinner on 25th December, Easter eggs, New Year's Eve parties etc.

Most don't know it, but true Judaism is in fact the most feminist religion you can find. For example, by Halachah 1. a husband must buy his wife presents every Jewish holiday. 2. a women has a right to tell her husband I do not want to work, you provide all the food and clothing for me, while I'll sit at home. 3. A husband must pay the Ketubah in case of divorce. Where else do you see so much benefits to the women?

1."Orthodox conversion is very difficult to complete. It's an educational process that expects people to become religiously observant" How is that any different than expecting new immigrants to follow the laws of a particular country when they apply for citizenship? OF COURSE it's difficult. Jews don't proselytize. How else do you determine someone's sincerity? 2. "People pretend so they'll get the seal of approval" She has a lot pf nerve to make that claim about the Orthodox after her previous comment. First it is an insult to all converts, secondly she represents a movement that is told that they are not required to observe anything. To wit: 3. "the service has become 100 percent egalitarian, the movement recognizes the rights of gays and lesbians and it is willing to marry a Cohen and a convert, which is forbidden according to halakha [religious law]. We don't consider ourselves bound by halakha; we let everyone choose for himself what to take from Judaism's large basket" Than why bother??? What makes it Judaism? The bagels after services??? 4. She explains that Reform services have organs and choirs like the church to "to make cosmetic changes to bring Jews closer to the world of tradition" Does this woman have any pride at all? They may as well call it the "self loathing" movement. The "world of tradition"???? WHOSE tradition? 5. She says that Israel was "revealed in all it's glory" when in 2002 when "The High Court of Justice ruled that the government must recognize all conversions for all intents and purposes" Great. So if a "Humanistic" "Rabbi" sprinkles some water on you after you pay your Temple dues (don't laugh-the Orthodox movement is the ONLY branch of Judaism that has consistent rules for conversion) then that person is Jewish? WHAT? Again-these people do not care about Judaism. They care about the ideology of the left: total obsession with gender,race,class. Values have no place in the equation and neither does normative Judaism. Their willingness to justify, in the most self righteous terms, the rejection of 3,500 years of tradition blows my mind. They are shameless about it. In fact she goes on to say: 6 "Giving authority to the Chief Rabbinate means that if you don't observe the Sabbath, they won't convert you. If you seek to convert because you want to live according to Jewish tradition but don't want to observe Shabbat - to live a Jewish but not an Orthodox life - you won't be able to convert through them." See #1. What is a "Jewish life" if you remove Jewish law? I sit being a good, ethical person? Is the "Rabbi" saying that non Jews aren't also commanded to be good, ethical people (they are)? That isn't a exclusively a "Jewish Value." It is a shame that the lack of observance and religious education in the USA is infecting Israel. Because that is what is happening here. Lastly, I love that the "Rabbi" consistently refers to the Orthodox as "Ultra Orthodox" as every strain of Orthodoxy from Modern Orthodox to the Satmar Rebbe doesn't completely reject the doctrine of the Reform movement.

It was made so Jews could integrate with the Christians and feel at home. In Israel a Jew can feel at home as a Jew. No need to integrate with the non Jews here so no need for reform here. Thats why it will never take off in Israel. If anything they need to convert the nonJewish Olim just to fill the seats in their congregations in Israel. It is useless for Israeli Jews. It is only useful for a couple of reform psuedorabbis who are trying to make ends meet.

Following Vatican II, the church dropped Latin and instituted "reforms", church attendance fell through the floor. Same for the COE, and other denominations. Like Reform Judaism, when religious leaders and institutions offer nothing but current politically correct fads, people loose interest. In the US, where Reform is predominate, the intermarriage rate is something like 70+% in many communities. If you don't want your kids to marry other Jews, then adopting Reform Judaism is the way to go. Frankly, I wonder if that is not the real motivation. Reform was started in Germany and flourishes in America. That is not a coincidence.

They are the virtually the same as gentiles. They eat nonKosher. Don't do shabbat and marry nonJews. They don't have proper Jewish divorce. So why don't they just be reform gentiles. Reform encompasses both Jews and gentiles because it is like a social club. They don't conversion any more just membership fees to be a part of their social club

So what do they care about the bill anyway. The children of most reform don't go to synogogue more than a few times a year and don't study Torah much less Halachah. Many don't even keep shabbat. The children marry nonJews at an alarming pace. The rabbis in reform say it is OK to be homosexual. Almost every thing they do is against the Torah. What exactly are they converting people too. A religion that is against Torah study and practice. A religion of convenience and a religion that changes according to each persons physical desires.

The core-issue is not one of Orthodoxy vs. Reform. It is rather the nature of the relationship between representatives of a religious tradition and what is, for all other purposes and appearances, a modern, secular government. There is a clear element of irrationality in an arrangement by which a group of clergy (whoever they may be) and the right of citizenship or even of residence in a nation-state. Such an arrangement rests upon ideological assumptions that Israelis by and large do not accept. It is time for Israel to go beyond that bizarre arrangement and strive to become a nation-state resting upon more rational foundations like other states.

With the destruction of european Jewry and all its rabbis and schools, we are now confronting the fall-out of the lack of quality rabbis in the USA. The American Jews fell away from halacha under overwhelming pressure from goyem and pursuit of the 'Am dream'. The change in Israeli law is intended as part of eliminating the problem of immigration fraud as much as refining the Law of Return. Its not intended as a personal offense to non-observant Jews who clump and annount themselves with a new name. Remember, the original Conservative movement was just a switch by the chazzan from Tricorn hats to Top hats!! He didn't change what was under the hat!!

All newly invented "Judaism kal/light" branches may be respectable worldviews, theories andapproaches but not the Religion. Nevertheless Haredim should not bother their Jewish brothers not sharing their religious ardor. The Lady, "rabi" should join social-democratic movement and stop pretending...

they're NOT Jewish

With respect to Galia Sadan and all those who find an orthodox conversion too difficult, genuine conversion is not about choosing what you want to keep and throwing away what you don't from an inclusive basket of Judaism. It is a solid commitment to observe the Laws of the Torah given by G-d at Sinai. These include keeping Shabbat, Kashrut and Family Purity. If you don't want to keep them, don't convert. Remain a righteous gentile. You can still worship at a synagogue of your choice and keep as much or as little of Judaism as you wish with the exception of a complete observance of Shabbat. True conversion is a soul changing experience of fundamental proportions. At the mikvah, usually reached after much suffering, you really do receive a new higher soul. Part of that process is acceptance by the convert of all the mitzvot and the convert's acceptance by three shomer shabbat Jewish men. There is a very real spirituality involved and a real commitment to Hashem Himself, which is not to be undertaken lightly. It is not about personal feelings, concentrating on what you personally want and choosing what bits of Judaism you want to keep and what you don't. It is all about Hashem and accepting His will. Completely. The real reason to convert, properly and totally, is that you truly find that you simply HAVE to be Jewish, no matter what. The orthodox way may today unfortunately be riddled with politics, unnecessary bureaucratic obstacles and inter-rabbinical arguments, and the process does need to be made more pure, honest and humanly sensitive, but it must always be according to halacha for the true soul change - given by Hashem Himself - to that of a Jew to be made.

"Liberal Judaism" will not ever 'return' to observing halacha, eat kosher etc. etc. They will in orthodox eyes be "illegitimate" But they are a form of Judaism like it or not and should not be demonised for their beliefs. Efforts shold be made by both sides to reach agreement on how to deal with their differences

Of course, pluralism also applies to Druze, non-Jewish Russians, Palestinians, Yemenites, Ethiopians, gays, refuseniks, and peaceniks.

The Conversion bill splits the family. Most of us in North America are either Reform or Conservative. Most Israelis are either Secular or Orthodox. It's harder for either to identify with the other. The Conversion bill doesn't help heal the divide. One family??????

Only the Orthodox in Israel would cut off their nose to spite their face. At a time when Israel needs all the support it can get, trying to deligitimize 50% of the Jews in the world seems like a pretty stupid idea. This will destroy American Jewry's support for Israel faster than anything. But I suppose Israel doesn't care about that either.

I'd rather be surrounded by a million reform Jews working and supporting the economy, than a million ultra-orthodox who spend their lives reading Torah. Don't get me wrong, it's a worthy cause - but it doesn't keep the lights on or food in the fridge!

Outgoing Israeli Ambassador to the UN Gabriela Shalev on Sunday warned that hatred of Israel in the halls of the United Nations is reaching a peak and yet, Israel wants to cut off half of the Jews who would support it. Only in Eretz Yisra'el. Instead of allowing the Ultra-Orthodox to rule, why not have a king? It's obvious you cannot handle democracy.

the people who don't accept Halacha, who live in teh country, and function within it are part of that plurality. The problem begins when you tamper with the basics of Judaism. You can accept Halacha, or reject it, but it has been the standard for Jewish communal life for a long time. That some Jews don't accept it, and have decided it is not Revealed, but Historical, that it can change "if you will it" doesn't change Halacha. No matter how rational, or up to date, or you want to make Judaism more appealing to the millions, it's based on Sacred Texts, the Written ones and the Oral traditions that have come to be written down. We don't mix meat with milk because there are three citations with three contexts in the Written Law, and not because of historical, or social, or any other reasons you fabricate in order to placate you bias against what you regard as "supernatural", or illogical When the Messiah comes we know what to do.......................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................

"Rabbi" Sadan isn't a rabbi. She's playing at being one. When "Liberal Judaism" returns to observing halacha, which means returning to the classically acceptable definition of "Who Is A Jew", begins observing the mitzvot such as kashrut and tacharat mishpacha, stops doing spurious conversions, and stops thinking that women can be rabbis, then we can take its views seriously. As of now, in its rejection of halacha, "Liberal Judaism" isn't Judaism at all.

If half the world's Jews live in Israel where Reform and Conservative are very minor players and over a million Jews in France and the UK are also mainly Orthodox, how can 70% of world Jewry be Reform or Conservative. I would have thought it more likely that 70% of world Jewry are not afilliated.

but i see the reform as goyim. If they want they can do another religion and just dont bother us. Im a jewish orthodox, im not shomer shabbat but i dont want to change the rules and i know that if i want my kids to be jewish i have to get marry with a jewish woman, no EXCUSE.

There's no such thing as "Basket of Judaism". It simply doesn't exist. She made it up. If pluralism is so valued by Reform, who do they insist on conversion? Why not accept non-Jews into the Reform Movement without having them convert? That Reform is interested in conversion indicates that their commitment to pluralism is lacking or that they have another agenda...

Funny LMW is all worried about his or her physical body, maybe Jews will be under attack in the world again and so on. And like all people who lack faith, LMW does not give a hoot about whether or not he or she is really Jewish spiritually. Never thinks that maybe the conversion didn't really work in G-d's eyes. That's exactly what is wrong with Reform conversions.

I grew up in a Reform family. I studied in the Reform movement. I no longer identify as Reform. I disagree with many decisions and realities they represent. But, they are still the largest single group of Jews in the world. They are part of our vitality, and our problems. They are not our only source of problems or vitality. They are Jews. To ignore or berate them is only to relive the Tisha B'Av. Love them as fellow Jews. Engage them in dialogue. But to deny them, is to cut Klal Yisrael by half. I always thought that only antisemites shared that goal. Which side are you on?

45% of world Jewry live in North America 41% of North American Jews affilated with a synagogue are Reform. They are the largest Jewish movement outside Israel and should not be ignored by Israel.

I am curious. With this new law, will reform converted Jews be left to die if there comes a time that all Jews need to return home to Israel? Will the rabbinate courts write us notes saying we aren't 'real' Jews so there is no need to kill us? And how does the rabbinate feel Hashem will feel about this? just curious.

Ignore the leftist, atheist, and Reform American Jews. They are inconsequential and working against the best interests of the Jewish people.

judaism is a religion not a basket. and in jewish scriptures it CLEARLY states, several times, what a jew must do in order to live a righteous life. the "reform" ignore this. they IGNORE the fact that it says IN PLAIN LANGUAGE that homosexuality is wrong, that women are not on the same level as men (although important in different ways), that we are not to mix with the goyim. these people aren't jews, they've invented their own fairytale religion.

Part of the beauty of the story of Israel Jacobson, and only a part, is that he introduced significant reforms without his being a rabbi. His life continues to serve as an example to any and every lay person who wishes to make change, and it is a shame that his accomplishments are not more well known. Joe Murray, HUC-JIR '09

I am a Reform American Jew and I am boycotting Israel until the government stops giving power to the Haradi. I am going to Egypt this year, but I will not come to Isreal. May be if all the members of the Reform Movement boycott Israel, things would change quickly.

I think you are right in opposing the bill. I think the country is wrong to entangle politics and religion, with the Rabbinate given such authority as it has. In the US we struggle daily to insure the separation of church and state. I think Israel, a country used to struggle and survival, should make the same distinction.