Only an idiot would say Israel has frozen settlement activity
The PM's favorite move of throwing the ball into the Palestinians' court stopped working with the Americans.
By Akiva Eldar Tags: Benjamin Netanyahu Israel news settlement buildingMonday morning, as George Mitchell was on the way home from another diplomatic mission short on breakthroughs, Saeb Erekat did not sound dismayed. On the contrary, the head of the Palestinian negotiation team vehemently argued that the American envoy's last visit actually moved up the moment of truth for the White House.
The veteran adviser to Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas said that Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu's favorite move of throwing the ball into the Palestinians' court stopped working with the Americans.
They are patiently waiting for the prime minister's answer to two questions: First, is he ready for the negotiations to pick up where they left off at the end of the former prime minister Ehud Olmert's term? Second, does he accept the principle that the territory transferred to a Palestinian state will be the same size as the territory captured by Israel in the West Bank and Gaza during the Six-Day War.
The international community's patience, Erekat concluded, is wearing thin.
Erekat is not alone in his thinking. Over the weekend, UN Secretary General Ban Ki-moon pointed at Israel as not only the one responsible for the stagnation in the diplomatic process, but also for the thawing of the freeze on construction in the settlements.
Two months after the government decision on November 26 to freeze construction in Jewish settlements for 10 months, you'd have to be blind, an idiot, or a member of the Yesha Council of settlements to use the term "freeze" to describe the real estate situation in Judea and Samaria.
Two days ago, when Netanyahu planted a tree in Gush Etzion, he promised to place many more trees in the Ariel bloc as well, which is 20 kilometers east of the Green Line. In the case of Ariel, Netanyahu kept his word even before he gave it; as he was speaking yellow bulldozers were feverishly working on a new site for Ariel's industrial zone.
The Civil Administration confirmed that the freeze also applied to industrial and commercial zones, and that surveys conducted last week in the Ariel region found several violations of the freeze order and an injunction to halt the construction was even issued. So what?
As mentioned, two days ago Haaretz documented bulldozers at work there (and also in the Barkan industrial zone). The Civil Administration spokesman explained that "the enforcement efforts and issuing of injunctions is done in accordance with all the relevant considerations and priorities."
It seems that the freeze on the construction of new industrial zones in national priority zones of the government in the heart of the West Bank is not at the top of the defense minister's list of priorities. He apparently was busy upgrading the status of Ariel University Center of Samaria.
Netanyahu's colleagues will probably explain to the Americans that besides for the settlers, factories also experience natural growth.
Who's getting called into the office
Education Minister Gideon Sa'ar (Likud), who has acquired a reputation as a moderate politician (he was even invited to speak at the most recent memorial ceremony for Yitzhak Rabin), has his priorities.
The day after remarks by Ram Cohen, the principal of the Tel Aviv Ironi Alef high school, to the effect that an army must defend borders and not "the accursed occupation" were published, Sa'ar came out sharply against the principal's "preaching" in the Knesset and in the media.
The district supervisor, Dalit Shtauber, was instructed to summon Cohen for a thorough clarification.
Two weeks ago, this column published extensive quotes from an article Rabbi Yisrael Rosen published in weekly Torah pamphlet, "Shabbat Beshabbato" which is supported by the Education Ministry and distributed in hundreds of synagogues.
Rosen wrote that the time has come "'to declare war' ... on Israeli Arabs... who are not loyal to the state ... and to designate them as 'enemies.'"
He called for their removal from main traffic arteries and for their right to vote for and be elected to the Knesset to be taken away.
"His brothers" on the Jewish left and some High Court of Justice judges, who identify with them, were also referred to as "enemies."
The day after the article appeared, I asked the ministry if the taxpayers, including Israeli Arabs and also "enemy brothers" will continue funding the printing of the pamphlet that incites against them.
The response of the Education Ministry's spokesman, Hagit Cohen, arrived Monday.
She stated that following Haaretz's query, the ministry's director general asked Rabbi Rosen for clarification. In a letter to the director general, Rabbi Rosen explained that he appreciates the contribution of loyal Arab Israelis to the state and primarily those among them who volunteer to do military and national service.
The rabbi added that his remarks should have been worded more appropriately and that "as one educated in the centrist stream of religious Zionism, I would not want to collectively tarnish anyone's reputation based on nationality or ethnic origin."
In Sa'ar's defense, it may be said that while right-wing Knesset members made a big fuss about Cohen's remarks, in the case of Rosen, the Labor and Meretz party members did not trouble the minister.
Shalom didn't do it
A thorough review of the case of the appointment of Alon Pinkas as ambassador to the UN found that even though Silvan Shalom has an account to settle with Pinkas dating from their time in the foreign minister's bureau, the Likud members' petition against the appointment is not connected to Shalom's vow to get back at the former consul general in New York.
You could say that Shalom's work was done by others; the prime minister has reasonable cause to oppose the favored candidate of Foreign Minister Avigdor Lieberman. It has nothing to do with the relationship between Netanyahu and businessman Sheldon Adelson and his free newspaper, Israel Hayom. Given the embarrassing humiliation of the Turkish ambassador, it is regrettable that no one upheld Shalom's old vow to stop Deputy Foreign Minister Danny Ayalon.
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Israeli settlement building in the West Bank. |
| Photo by: (AP) |
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... in the eyes of the Arabs and other goyim. So, if you are anti-settlement, you are anti-Israel, if you are pro-Israel, you are pro-settlement. You can't say Tel Aviv and Jerusalem are by rights Israeli, while forgoing a claim to Hebron.
Genesis 10:13-14 refers to Philistines, not Palestinians. The Philistines were from Crete, not semitic, and had nothing to do with the origin of Palestinians. The Palestinian origin is Palestine, and they predate Israelites in Canaan. When Israelite tribes crossed from Jordan into Canaan, also known then as Palestine, Canaan was occupied by (among others) semite tribes, Amorites, Hittites and Jebusites. The words Jews and Arabs weren't known yet.The Jebusites had already built Jerusalem and inhabited it for 100 more years after the Israelites arrived in Canaan. In the academic world many noted scholars and historians have determined the Jebusites to be the forebears of the Palestinians. The New York University School of Medicine, and the National Academy of Sciences have discovered that Middle East Jewish men have a common genetic signature with Palestinian, Syrian and Lebanese men, and not with any other non-Jews in the world.
Virtually all of Israel, those who can read, know that Judea and Samaria have not belonged to Israel for 3,500 years, and do not now belong to Israel. The Jebusites (among many others) inhabited Canaan when the Israelite tribes arrived, had already built Jerusalem and inhabited the city 100 more years. Many scholars and historian have determined the Jebusites to be the forebears of the Palestinians. Also, during those 3,500 years you claim, the land belonged to the Babylonians, Persians, Assyrians, Greeks, Romans, Byzantines, Arabs, Europeans, the Mamluk and the Ottoman. On 14 May 1948, when Israel declared statehood under UN resolution 181, Part II of the resolution specified detailed precise borders over which territory Israel had sovereignty in Palestine. None of the land beyond those borders legally belong to Israel. The Israeli occupation of the West Bank, Jerusalem and Gaza violate international law. That includes Judea and Samaria.
As usual, Joe, you don't know what you are talking about. The relevant part of the new Fatah charter drafted 19 August 2009 reads: "Fatah stresses its commitment to the pursuit of a comprehensive peace but reiterates the Palestinian people's right to resistance to occupation in all its forms in line with international law."
After the 1973 war the USA wanted peace and Israel didn't. Israel wanted to keep the half of the Sinai they could defend, because they could defend it. They said the money they had spent on defense installations there was too much. They said it would cost $20 billion to replace those defenses. So we wrote them a check for $20 billion and they gave back Sinai. Say that when we're ready to establish peace with Palestine, there are 800,000 Israelis living there. Israel will say they cannot afford to move those people. We will say, How much will it cost to do it? Israel will say, $800 billion and we will get out our checkbook. If there are only 700,000 Israelis there then they might only get $700 billion. I once knew a guy who lived beside the airport. He knew they were going to expand the airport. So he kept building cheap extras -- a swimming pool etc -- to jack up the value when they condemned his land and he took the government to court.
...planting a tree and promising to plant more. My God --just what part of illegal doesn't this man understand? what sick denial he displays! If Israelis find themselves out of a home some day they will certainly know why and who caused it. This isn't a 1948 world anymore and from what I see and hear there isn't a drop of goodwill left for Israel today- especially after Gaza. (It has changed everything....folks!) Talk about a state in moral bankruptcy...I wouldn't want to be in any of your places. Doors will not open this times... Dutch
They accepted the Jewish God, but they refused his luggage; the jews ! And they made all this fuss about it all these many centuries !
Well Johny boy, you must have been asleep throughout Olmert's Premiership, he had more meetings , many personal with Abbas than any other Israeli PM with any PA leader . Olmert even offered part of East Jerusalem and some 97% of WB + 3% of Israeli territory, which admitedly was not put to the Knesset, but nevertheless the offers were there. Sticking point : the so-called refugees should take residence in Israel !? Abbas walked out ! Check it out before spewing out your usual haunty garbage at Israel. By the way , what is the position on returning stolen land to the Aborigenes ? they have more right to Australia than the so-called Palestinians to Israel!
... or 'come clean', as they say in the movies... ... whatever, someone who constantly urges the settlers to "build-baby-build" is ultimately antisemitic...
Now, finally, Israel can build on captured land won in a defensive war. There is no way Arabs will get a "Palestinian" state equivalent in size to Judea/Samaria and Gaza.
Petra is a transgendered Palestinian living in the US. Her fondness for Isreal stems from her working the bars and streets in Tel Aviv. She has turned her back on Ramallah because she couldn't pass as a man there. The Pals were too clever- they noticed her Adam's apple. Fat ulra Orthodox dudes didn't care. They took her as she was- and that explains her love for expansionist Israel. It's a gripping story- full of diversity, sex and romance. Petra now resides in the Us where she's married to the African American owner of a McDonald's, but her feverish interest in the Holy Land remains undiminished.
GA: "Didn`t they say NO to Olmert ?" Did Olmert actually put a formal proposal in front of them, GA? I think you will find that the answer is "No, he didn't." And if he didn't actually put a proposal to Abbas and Erekat then it's rather outlandish to accuse them of rejecting it.
IO: "Is this israeli land or not?" Israel makes no attempt to claim that the West Bank is "Israeli land". No attempt whatsoever. It's argument is purely and simply that this territory MUST BE ceded to it because... well... because Israel says so. IO: "If not why are the settlements happening?" They are "happening" because Israel can not find any LEGAL justification for it annexing this territory, so it is attempting the "possession is 9/10th of the law" gambit i.e. it is hunkering down within these colonies and daring anyone to tell it to leave. Not much of an argument, but as arguments go it's all that Israel has.
being stopped and pulled down. There was a Synagogue pulled down yesterday!!Is that business as usual to you?? For example.Do you want access to Gaza from the WB thru' Israeli territory or not?
Here are some conflicting quotes http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/David_Ben-Gurion see also Fabricating Israeli history the "new historians by Efraim Kirsh can be found online Sourced Wikipedia Sourced There is enough room in the country for ourselves and the Arabs. The State of Israel is prepared to make its contribution in a concerted effort for the advancement of the entire Middle East. To maintain the status quo will not do. We have set up a dynamic State, bent upon creation and reform, building and expansion. We need to anticipate the character of the times, discern embryonic forms emergent or renewed, and clear the path for circumstantial change. We kept to our dedication and our missions. By these will the State be judged, by the moral character it imparts to its citizens, by the human values determining its inner and outward relations, and by its fidelity, in thought and act, to the supreme behest: "and thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself." Here is crystallized the eternal law of Judaism, and all the written ethics in the world can say no more. The most dangerous enemy to Israel?s security is the intellectual inertia of those who are responsible for security.Everybody sees a difficulty in the question of relations between Arabs and Jews. But not everybody sees that there is no solution to this question. No solution! There is a gulf, and nothing can bridge it? We, as a nation, want this country to be ours; the Arabs, as a nation, want this country to be theirs. Written statement ( June 1919), as quoted in Time magazine (24 July 2006) Under no circumstances must we touch land belonging to fellahs or worked by them. Only if a fellah leaves his place of settlement, should we offer to buy his land, at an appropriate price. Written statement (1920), as quoted in Ben-Gurion and the Palestinian Arabs : From Peace to War (1985) by Shabtai Teveth, p. 32. We do not wish, we do not need to expel the Arabs and take their place. All our aspirations are built upon the assumption ? proven throughout all our activity in the Land ? that there is enough room in the country for ourselves and the Arabs. Letter to his son Amos (5 October 1937), as quoted in Shabtai Teveth, Ben Gurion: The Burning Ground; and Fabricating Israeli History: The 'New Historians (2000) by Efraim Karsh; this has been extensively misquoted as "[We] must expel Arabs and take their places" after appearing in this form in The Birth of the Palestinian Refugee Problem, 1947-1949 (1987) by Benny Morris, p. 25
... would have done differently ?! Why the two standards when jew are concerned ?! Apartheid loud & clear !
Well Nasser called it 'The Arab Nation', then Gadafi said the same thing. Syria has always harboured Palestinians of all denominations. Tunisia housed Arafat and his gang. Lebanon before Tunisia.....and so on. Why ? Mostly,the 'Arab Nation' was one , but it has been split by the colonising powers such as Britain and France who feel now they have to integrate them in their societies. If the Arabs had done the right thing and accepted naturally their so-called Palestinian brothers decades ago, we wouldn't be in the mess we're in today, nor would they. What saved them among other things was Oil........
How does Israel have the cojones to ask German businesses to cease dealing with Iran when Israel goes about its own business regardless of how the world feels about it?
Take a stroll down Sderot Rothschild and view the functional construction in the Bau-Haus style of homes built on empty sand dunes in the 1900's and compare them with the present housing in Judea and Samaria built on barren hilltops, if you should dare venture into the unknown.
Well Yaakov, this is what I think about your points one by one. 1-The Pals have indeed said they cannot deal with the current Israeli PM whoever he/she was at any time. They've always ended negotiations that way. 2-Abbas did walk away from Olmert saying the offer was not good enough. And when you refuse an offer, the offer is no longer on the table, check it out with any lawyer. 3-As for the money 'given' to Israel by the USA, well in short it's been a fair exchange such as for the US to have the only good friend democratic in the M.E. at first and now numerous high tec and military cooperation. The money invested here by the US is much better than many investments in many other countries. 4-Israel is not confiscating land , it is recovering land belonging to it in the first place. Building peace will only come when the Arabs finally accept that Israel is the home of the Jews and the world should support Israel for that and for being a first barrier to the intended Moslem conquest.
Cumming "It`s NOT!. The land that the UN gave Israel in 1947 " Here is some facts for you 1) in 1947 the Arab legue refused to accept UN resolution and Grand Mufti called for all Muslims to finish of Hitlers work ie send all Jews to the Sea 2)"Breaking Geneva Conventions is generally a war crime" in that case 1948 1956 1967 1973 1980s and 200nds wars that Muslin nations forced upon the Jewish Nation are war crimes. Are you upset the Grand Mufti did not finish Hitlers job in 1947 do u consider The Jews fighting back in 48 56 67 73 a war crime and all Muslim Nations starting war on Israel not a war crime and not going against Geneva convention?
and undermining his country.
Oh Akivele...only an IDIOT would ask Israel to freeze settlement activity!!
C: "Hey Eldar, the idea of freezing Jewish settlement was represented by two main Knesset parties: Labor and Meretz." Hey, Chaim, the AGREEMENT to freeze all Israeli settlements (including "natural growth") was *signed* by a Likud Prime Minister and *ratified* by a Likud-dominated Knesset. You know, back in 2003. Man, you zionists really do have problems with your short-term memory, don't you....
You are most welcome to pitch your tent in my back yard for a few nights. If you would like to make it permanent, we will have to sit down and negotiate details. I might even decide to subdivide and sell you part of my property, if you promise not to shoot rockets at the school down the street.
should write such a article and recommend freezing the building in Jerusalem!
on your theory no arab should emigrate to europe or the usa because ?? the relationship is that of islam in 22 arab countries not dna similarity ! its still 0/10
you have twisted the reality and are speaking nonsense. 1. The Palestinians are not saying they cannot deal with any Israeli PM. They are calling for a settlement freeze while negotiations are going on. Israel has not agreed. Their so called 10 month freeze is no freeze at all, as Eldar verifies. 2. They have refused nothing but asked to start where previous negotiations left off, a demand with which the rest of the world is in accord. 3.As for moneys wasted on foreign entities, I think you had better look at what has been given to Israel from US tax dollars over decades before you open your mouth on that score. 4.Israel has declared its intention to keep settlement blocs, East Jerusalem and positioning their troops inside Palestine. They continue to confiscate land. That is hardly building a future for peace.
Hey Eldar, the idea of freezing Jewish settlement was represented by two main Knesset parties: Labor and Meretz. Both were decimated in the election. The patriotic right won convincingly and, recent polls show, it would win much more strongly if an election was held today. In fact, Labor would be reduced to just six seats. Israel has rejected the evil, racist settlement freeze. Virtually all of Israel knows Judea and Samaria have rightfully belonged to us for more than 3,500 years. Only an idiot would say Israel should freeze settlement activity. This land is ours. A million Jews in Judea and Samaria by 2015!
No, they are still the same. Judaic tenets of "truth and justice" were always about "truth and justice" for the benefit of Jews.
I replied to your original message in detail in two previous posts which Haaretz for some unknown reason did not publish. I do hope they go back find them. I have more pressing matters than respond again in detail right now to the most arrogant Irishman I've ever encountered. This wont' change my very very strong friendship to a good number of Irish families and love of Ireland. I had too much of good times with them. As for you, I just find you weird and hope perhaps sometime to make you shift your opinion a little. Meanwhile, have a nice evening.
... even subterfuge with weird tents has been resorted to... ... mere balconies are passe... additional floors and annexes are the fashion-of-the-day... and how can one deprive the in-laws of their own cosy abode?...
...I didn't learn anything from your stupid postings.. You fail to see that a Tunisian will not except a Palestinian as a brother or sister; because the blood line and heritage are different. All 22 Arab countries have their own coutnries and backgrounds--they are not homogenous people.
unable to rebut my posts. "How come Haaretz lets you call people names."GA Followed directly by???. "I am neither blind nor naive,you pompous arse. Look in the mirror and what do you see : an ignorant biased twit who thinks only he knows best." GA Hmmm, thought you would out do me Ga---well you won.You are far more accomplished at calling names.I cede you that. "Just stick to the arguments mate and dont` hide behind lefty Haaretz to vomit your anti-Israel bent mind, will you ? That`s what we`re supposed to do, give opinions on the subject article not on the opinion writer."GA I am sticking to the article .It is my contention and the writer agrees, that there is no freeze because Israel has no interest in peace.Never has and I offered proof in my post. Perhaps I am being too subtle for your level of comprehension. Go have a break--calm down then return when you are ready to argue in a more structured and controlled manner. Meantime---do have a nice day mate.
Bill, there's a major difference. If Jasper attacks you, you can be the victor and capture his land. If he attacks you, I will even help you. By the way, the "someone else's land" is Jordan, who lost the land in 1967. Where did "Palestine" emerge from this ?? I also ask, why did the the so-called Palestinians not feel the importance of having a State while Jordan ruled the West Bank prior to 1967?? Please explain.
you say "when he (Olmert) made those so called offers he knew Netanyahu would never agree to." And how did Olmert know he would be succeeded by Netanyahu ? You made it up, heh. And did the Pals not refuse Barrack's offers in front of Clinton in 2000 ? They didn't know Netanyahu wld be PM in 2009/10 ? Stick to the subject mate, otherwise I am perfectly able to give you same or worse qualifications.So be a man, not childish and stop looking from above all pro-Israel folks here. Just calm down please.
When Israel gets pushed to make peace, Israel drags out the well-worn excuse that Israel tried to make peace and Arafat blew it. They say that Arafat's failure shows that the PA is the problem, and it is the Arabs who are to blame. It's a ready made excuse used by Israel to wiggle out of any uncomfortable political demands made upon her. The Settlement Freeze will end up being Israel's "Arafat Moment". Now when it is the PA that is being pressured, THEY will be able to drag out Bibi's failed Settlement Freeze for the exact same purposes. Making a failure of this Settlement Freeze is an enormous political blunder on the same level as Arafat's failure to accept peace. Too bad, just like Arafat, Bibi won't realize his mistake until well after the damage has already been done.
Here we go again. How come Haaretz lets you call people names. I am neither blind nor naive,you pompous arse. Look in the mirror and what do you see : an ignorant biased twit who thinks only he knows best. Just stick to the arguments mate and dont' hide behind lefty Haaretz to vomit your anti-Israel bent mind, will you ? That's what we're supposed to do, give opinions on the subject article not on the opinion writer. I do hope they print this, you're lucky they didn't print my previous two answers to your No.30 post.
1. The PA has not said that peace with any Israeli leaer is impossible. This is unsubstantiated nonsense. They called fro a total settlement freeze while negotiations are being conducted. The international community also agrees with that sensible position. 2. The Palestinians are refusing nothing. Their position is precisely to begin where negotiations left off. Again, Israel refuses. 3. As for pouring US tax dollars into Palestinian territories I suggest you look into the amounts of money that have poured into Israel and allowed it to prop up continuation of its colonisation enterprise. 4. It is Israel that played the crucial role in seeing that hamas was elected in Gaza hence furthering their occupier objective of divide and rule.
stephen at school did you get 0/10 for comprehension ?
Israeli policy towards Palestine is nothing more than smoke and mirrors. Checkpoints are dismantled only to have new ones erected elsewhere. Aggressive settlement construction despite a supposed freeze. Netanyahu calls for negotiations but reasserts intent to keep IDF in Palestine regardless and plants trees while reaffirming Israel's claims on part of Palestine. Israeli leaders are experts in deception for the sake of expansionism. It amazes me how the Israeli population can support such trickery and exploitation. Have people abandoned the Judaic tenets of truth and justice?.
What settlement ?? We are talking about Israel.
israel should just come out and say to everyone..we will keep building UNTIL the PA decides to recognize israel as a jewish state, forever legitimate and that they will never again try to eliminate israel and that refugess will be accepted back ONLY into the future palestinian state and not israel. Half of jerusalem can be negotiated. Do you think the pals would accept this? lol... Then the world will be justified in asking israel to stop building. (post #number 26 has it perfectly right)
Jasper...I plan to backpack the mid-west for summer vacation...I will need shelter while I'm in Milwaukee. Since you contend that building houses isn't "criminal behavion"...I plan to build in your back yard. Launching rockets at civilian populations IS CRIMINAL...but so too is building on someone else's land.
Sam Soul, do you know what is CRIMINAL BEHAVIOUR ? An INNOCENT man or family driving home and being murdered, in cold blood. Just happened last month to Rabbi Chai, he was blown away. Criminal behaviour is a mother (Tali Hatuel) and her four young daughters driving when suddenly, their car is riddled with bullets. Thats not enough, when they lay mortally wounded, their dead bodies were pumped with many more bullets. That is criminal behaviour, no it is barbarity. Please spare us. You could have had your State before 1967 at ANY TIME. Not only didn't you want a State, you chose to destroy Israel. Sorry, you lost your bet, now you have to face the consequences of the foolishness of your corrupt leaders.
Rabbi Rosner is 100% correct.
Eldar exposes the lie of this "freeze". Not only is the cessation of building a myth but even the limited extent of what was committed to is a myth. That is obvious for anyone to see. These comments comcerneing Israeli Arabs are not new and more generally held than one would be led to believe. There has been open discussion and support of disenfranchisement in the Knesset for some time. Leading religious figures have given their impramatur to the recent publication of "The King's Torah" which has ruled based on their interpretation of Halacha, that killing of gentiles is commanded and that gentiles by their very nature are devoid of compassion. Only Jews are compassionate. (How they reconcile this belief with their commitedment to killing gentiles, including babies is one for a very talented Talmudic gaon to figure out). Surely no one can say that it is the Palestinians who are obstructionist. As for the 2 questions, netanyahu has already nixed both of them. The question is: where to f
...How can you compare? The 22 countries include North Africa--Algeria, Morracco and Tunisia..Do jews claim that land too? Population of Israel is 7.4 million... The 22 countires have a population 800 million... Israel is small..It's population is small...The Zionist movement wanted their homeland where it is...What more do you want?
The land this settlements are on is not part of Israel Israel was defined in the UN-Resolution in 1947, but I think most would now compromise with the borders up to 1967, even if that was as well a land grab. The settlements happened because the Israelis don't care about international law but acted as plain robbers. They silenced many western countries with the illegitimate branding of any critisism as antisemitism, despite the fact that the Palestinians are Semites as well.
It's interesting that this is the first time I hear about the content of this letter and I'm somewhat surprised. PM Ben Gurion did not sustain this theory of expansionism obviously. Now bear in mind that the period of 1937 was during colonial times globally and the concept of occupation of existing inhabitants on territory was of less concern as would be after World War II.
when he made those so called offers he knew Netanyahu would never agree to. Are you blind or just plain naive. Dont you know that Israel is not interested in peace---just the Greater Israel project. Her are afew comments by Ben Gurion Begin--long before any Arab armies alledgely attacked the Nascent state. "Ben-Gurion emphasized that the acceptance of the Peel Commission would not imply static borders for the future "Jewish state". In a letter Ben-Gurion sent to his son in 1937, he wrote: "No Zionist can forgo the smallest portion of the Land Of Israel. [A] Jewish state in part [of Palestine] is not an end, but a beginning ..... Our possession is important not only for itself ... through this we increase our power, and every increase in power facilitates getting hold of the country in its entirety. Establishing a [small] state .... will serve as a very potent lever in our historical effort to redeem the whole country." (Righteous Victims, p. 138) * In 1938, Ben-Gurion made it clear of his support for the "Jewish state" on part of Palestine was only as a stepping ground for a complete conquest. He wrote: "[I am] satisfied with part of the country, but on the basis of the assumption that after we build up a strong force following the establishment of the state--we will abolish the partition of the country and we will expand to the whole Land of Israel." (Expulsion Of The Palestinians, p. 107 & One Palestine Complete, p. 403) * One day after the UN vote to partition Palestine, Menachem Begin, the commander of the Irgun gang and Israel's future Prime Minister between 1977-1983, proclaimed: "The Partition of Palestine is illegal. It will never be recognized .... Jerusalem was and will for ever be our capital. Eretz Israel will be restored to the people of Israel. All of it. And for Ever." (Iron Wall p. 25) *
Only a fool believes that the Paletinians support a two state solution. THey don't The official Fatah website confirms that Abbas and Fatah policy is to liberate all of Palestinian by war. There is no mention of peace with Israel. Only the gullible press reports it.
Would you have the USA discriminate between Afghanistani Muslims and Israeli Jews? The Monroe Doctrine applies only to warlike activity in this hemisphere. 9/11/2001? Ok. So is the enemy Taliban? Al Qaida? Pakistan? Or is our "friend" whomsoever will pay the butcher's bill? Balfour set up Israel. Did it commit us to back her dishonest claims beyond the Green Line, or support her illegal insertion of settlers beyond that line? The answers are no, no, and no.
of land from Israel to Palestine,as are the Major only population centers,that are to be retained, they comprise a few percent of the West Bank. Gush Etzion was built on land PURCHASED from Arabs and ethnic cleansed of Jews by them in 1948 2.35000 Arab construction workers on the West Bank have already lost their jobs according to the Jerusalem post 3.The settlers are protesting & looking at hiring lobbyists for a reason. Only a (useful) idiot
Typical, Serekat is always negative , at least he represents the P.A.'s view. They always say, of any Israeli PM they're dealing with at the time, that no peace is possible with him. And then , with the next elected PM , they want what they refused to the previous PM. So, the logic is clear , the sooner they clinch a deal, the better for them. If only the Pal population knew how much the Israeli population wishes for Peace, they might revolt against their PA representatives who have other ideas : as long as there is tension, alledged poverty, and no effort to really build a Palestinian state, and the EU, USA and others pouring in money into their pockets, the Pals will have no incentive to make peace. Peace might mean the end of that bonanza. Erekat would be the first one to lose out from peace. So dont' expect anything but trouble from him. He's a fake. Why did they refuse Olmerts' offers then and pretend they would accept now ?
Akiva, an idiot would NOT say that there is a freeze, but rather a liar, cheat, shill, swindler, thief, hustler, hutzpanit, deceiver, self-deluded, counter-factual, snake-oil-salesman would say this. Good job fighting "anti-Semitism" Israel, by upholding the right to lie with absolutely no shame to those who have helped when Israel was down. Shame doesn't work, so soon the boycott and exclusion will - only an idiot would NOT call it "just desserts".
because he preaches one thing while practicing the opposite. That only makes him out to be a typical politican. However, he also thinks the world's populace is so naive as to believe what he says while his actions give the lie to his words. Ok, I won't call him an idiot. Let's just say his credibillty is down to 0%. As for the US Congress, they can hardly make war in Afghanistan and in the same breath tell Israel to keep its troops at home. now can they? Big bucks says they won't. So 2010, Israel is up to bat again! With Lebanon and Gaza to her credit, the count is two strikes and no balls.
And ignoring the reality of occupation and disposession like you do is called what ? It's called criminal behavior.
...would say Hamas has accepted Israel right to exist,and denounced terror.
one does not have to call bibi an idiot. actions speak louder than words
"Is this israeli land or not?" It's NOT!. The land that the UN gave Israel in 1947 and that Israel accepted and declared sovereignty over, did NOT include the West Bank. That was allocated to the Arabs in the UN's plan. All the land that Israel has captured or invaded since then - Beersheva, Sederot, Nazareth, etc, as well as the West Bank - is in law occupied territory: Israel cannot gain sovereignty over it or keep it. "If not why are the settlements happening?" A good point that the world has been asking Israel with increasing annoyance. Under international law, specifically the 4th Geneva Convention, it's illegal for an occupier to settle their own population on occupied territory. But that is what Israel has been doing for 40 years and is trying to tough and bluff its way through. Breaking Geneva Conventions is generally a war crime that gets you a one-way ticket to the Hague. Israel's leaders take their chances.
The settlements are colonies build by Israel on Palestinian territory which it militarily occupies since 1967, it violates many International Laws and common sense...they are being built to create facts on the ground that would make the formation of a Palestinian state impossible because one cannot unscramble scrambled eggs...
its time they went home and let real peace endure !
mr netanyahu is in total darkness and throws punches in the air. time is really ripe for the outside world to intervene and help the palestinians in their struggle to find freedom and indipendence and get out of the israeli ensnarements.
hear hear
Have you ever read anything other than you Bible? You make statements about the US Constitution and the Monroe Doctrine and acts of Congress and the US Presidency that clearly demonstrate you have never read a single one of the documents or even a junior high school history of the United States. Where are you getting your misinformation?
Let's add another option: an idiot or a pathologic liar. Or both.
The Biblical Holyland is a religious issue and the U.S. Constitution forbids anything for or against religion+ Monroe Doctrine+legal commitment of Balfour signed by Congress& President Harding.
Akiva Yesterday, US House foreign affairs chairman Howard Berman expressed what roughly 70% of congress and the senate also believe. Netanyahu's peacemaking steps are real, convincing and provocative. They all see that the only piece missing is Palestenian commitment to their own future. Akiva it's OK for you to doubt Netanyahu, but don't put words into others' mouths and please don't call closest our friend's elected officials "idiots."
how does one get their own gov't to stop supporting terrorism? if the western gov'ts can't use logic than the next step would be invasion. after all if any other country did this we would not have waited 60 years to invade. unfortunatly our gov'ts are controlled by isrl, and we the peope need to take our these gov'ts. eventually the world will reble and a revolution will take place taking out isrl along with its own gov'ts. God protect those fighters, for we all know our gov'ts will surely try to take them out.
I don't understand the issue of settlements. Is this israeli land or not? If not why are the settlements happening?
If the settlers think now a freeze is on what would they do if there were full Israeli adherence to the Roadmap? All those outposts fired overnight with 2 minutes warning. Flamethrowers can do quick work. And the remains could be bulldozed by morning. And any settler who objects gets hauled off to an undisclosed location for enhanced interrogation for a few weeks. Oh my. How Middle Eastern of me to suggest that as an opening position.
Especially when the settlements built in occupied territory are a violation of article 49 of the fourth Geneva Convention. As for trees, well apparently Israel has no respect for them either, when the IDF stand idly by when illegal settlers destroy Palestinian olive groves on a regular basis.
That's most significant to know as to whether it's hopeful or not to resume negotiations asap. If the freeze in settlements in unsatisfactory, then the resumption of peace talks where they were left between PM Ehud Olmert and President Abbas is also significant progress. I'm not staying up any longer tonight because there's always more to say but people do need their sleep too. Until tomorrow.
No president will ever accept to freeze the contruction of the settlements because he will be faced with a civil war. The settlers want non of it and it's a pact that no president can betray.Again and again Israel is victim of it's own propaganda.
Apparently in my ex homeland there are plenty of idiots and other places where supporters of idiocy can be found. Do we have a complete meltdown in intelligence when it comes to israelis? No plan, no guidence, no road, no nothing except survive the latest obstacle and create 10 more in the process?
That was also a lot of hot air.
... is building houses considered "criminal behavior", while launching rockets at kindergartens considered "peaceful resistance". George Orwell would approve.
Netanyahu said it. Oh...I get it!