Walt-Mearsheimer and the war over the Israel Lobby, round two

Israel intervention into the political process in U.S. shows very prominent when practically all Congress and Senate members vote positive concerning any legislation pertaining at all to Israel. Item: The constant veto of all resolutions produced by the U.N. - most of which are justified in order to assure that Israel follows rules of law.

The very important article that Mary Kay Wilmers published about the Jewish Lobby has obvious hit a cord - with you readers. It is an arguement that Anmerican Zionish Jews did not want known in the States, CSpan was forbodden to broadcast it - It is very obvious that whether one call itit does exist - One has only to look at the ad on your web site listing Presidental candidates- After encouraging a disastrous war in Iraq - now you are pressing for an attack on Iran - who is supporting that - Hilary Clinton - who is not Obama - look at where each is on that web site. As a member of two Israeil passivist groups - pI know full well the damage the extreme Zionist foreign policy has done to Israelis. This of it - it could change - Egpytian cotton - Israeli marking skill - China Constance Blackwell

Are the individuals who publish these alerts sucha as indrajaya and Hannah for example, serious? Obviously these people need the help of a good psychiatrist, if they are not already seeing one, because they are clearly suffering from delusions of grandeur. Egads.

Just ask Jonathan Pollard.

what country u referring to ? usa, canada, all of s.america, aus, nzealand ? i dont see the indigenous peoples running these countries ...i do see outsiders speaking european languages running the show.

I always enjoy when Rosner comes up with this topic. That is because it brings out all of the hatemongers and neo-Nazi types in the talkback part of the article. They ooze up from the sewers of life. They come from all different parts of the world. Some are left wing wackos who will blame all the evil of the world on Israel and the Jewish people. Some are authentic right wing neo-Nazis who believed that Hitler didn't finish the job. No matter. These two half-baked scholars and their supporters will end up on the trashpile of history when Israel celebrates its 100th anniversary. As for the rest of you; go out and get a good dinner, see a descent movie and find a life partner who will put up with you nuttiness.

I appreciate the advanced information on the publication date. However, Mearsheimer is the lead author on this one, and it is under his name at Barnes & Noble. My copy should arrive tomorrow or the next day. I am sure they took advantage of Rosner's insights. I will read this book with interest.

Walt and Mearsheimer are recommending that the USA puts its own interests first in foreign policy. That's not anti-Israel, that's pro-USA. There is a difference.

Don't forget Eliot Cohen's support. As a US government official he must be unbiased and trustworthy, don't you think? To comment on his surname would be anti-semitic. "U.S. State Department counselor Eliot Cohen didn't hesitate to say that the article was anti-Semitic"

'"The trick follows a typical pattern," writes The Forward. "Step one: Publish your views in as provocative a manner as possible? Step two: Dare the Jewish community to lash out at you, then whine about being victimized by bullies. Step three: Implore fair-minded liberals to line up behind you, forcing them to choose between endorsing your vision - however skewed - or becoming part of the censorship juggernaut." ' Of course, for this to work, the pro-Israel community has to play its part. Go to it.

No wonder Gina is not concerned by the San Diego scandal. She appears to be a Christian fundamentalist, just like the so-called "bible scholars" who have hijacked the museum exhibits. She supports the existence of Israel but appears to have no interest whatsoever in Jewish culture, and justifies her approach by appealing to God. She represents a simplistic, ideologically driven world view that is ultimately as harmful as the evils it claims to combat.

1) Their aim is to break the Israel- US alliance. 2) They claim to be doing this for the good of Israel, also. 3) Israel has one real supporter in the world , the U.S. Without the U.S. the U.N.line rules everywhere. 4) The end of the special U.S.-Israel alliance means increased danger to Israel. 5) Walt- Mearsheimer are playing a double - game pretending not to be hostile to Israel when they are in fact recommending actions which will severely threaten it.

"I prefer even the insight of people I might disagree with, to naive, sentimental platitudes of people who "pray" for Israel" Fortunately for me, it's only the opinion of the Most High that I value. I certainly hope that you find that which you seek, especially if it benefits the miraculous country of Israel.

Once again I find myself obliged to respond to ignorance and gross over-simplification of a complex problem. Nowhere did I "reduce" support for Israel to the involvement of "a few people in a museum exhibit." Reality does not merely consist of geo-political issues, but also includes a massive industry of museum exhibits and so-called "documentary" films, all of it contrived to belittle the contribution of major Israeli scholars to our understanding of ancient Palestinian Jewish culture. You try to evade this issue by describing the six-million-dollar San Diego exhibit as a "private" affair, thereby revealing your failure to comprehend that the character of public and private "support" for Israel are closely intertwined. Did we "support" Iraq by destroying their culture and allowing the looting of museums? I prefer even the insight of people I might disagree with, to naive, sentimental platitudes of people who "pray" for Israel without ever having a single critical word to say.

Various Israeli groups (generally with close Likud associations) have long lobbied aggressively and quite effectively in the US. Until now they have also been successful at avoiding accusations of undue influence. The role of a lobbyist is to present their side's point of view. AIPAC & Co frequently exceed this mandate to stifle any internal debate about the US/Israeli relationship. This is Walt & Mearsheimer's point (Jimmy Carter's too) and has nothing to do with anti-Semitism. This behaviour may be understandable in light of Israel's existential dependency. Yet it is perilous. America is engaged in a unpopular war whose rational has never been adequately explained. At some point the finger of blame may be pointed at Israel, and Americans may question why Israel exercises such an incomparable influence on American policy.

When are Zionist flacks like you going to cease your incessant attempts to define ANYONE who speaks Arabic as an Arab? to follow your specious line of reasoning would be to insist that all Brazilians are really Portuguese and all New Zealanders are really English.

Such bullsh-t you write: do you believe it yourself?

Good post, Margaret, and I agree. However, it's particularly good to get a post from the USofA which does not belong to the zionist Fifth Columnists residing there (and presumably running your government as well). Do please keep posting; there are very few non-zionists Americans who post here. Regards, Hannah.

Quoting you "...Israel's Genocide against the Palestinians...Israel teetering on the brink..." First we have fo recgnise the fact that Palestinians as Muslims have been performing Genocide against each other for centuries because one must remember that 'Palestinians' are simply ARABS who misappropriately call themselves 'Palestinians' in order to claim land in the Region when their true Homeland is from whence they originate, the Desert, and that is where Palestinian/ARABS belong. As for Israel 'teeteriang on the brink' it is your wishful thinking and I would sympathise with you in this regard as you might be purely attempting to satisfy your ego.....

It is of course true that Jews should have as much power as any other group (depending on their numbers and contribution). To say otherwise would be antisemitic. However, that does not mean that they should therefore be allowed to use that power to support the interests of another country than their own without criticism. A person should support the interests of his/her own country first. Using your logic, a moslem should support the interests of Iran over those of his/her own country because Iran is a moslem country.

The United States will support the Palestinian people once they eradicate the terrorists in their midst.

Israel is more trouble than it is worth today. And shame on George Shultz for his forward- there is nothing just about iIsrael's racist policies and oppression of the Palestinian people. And damn Abe Foxman, he represents nothing but one big fat lie. Dutch

Muslims blow up Muslims, riot, firebomb embassies, all over the planet, at the drop of a hat. Nice try blaming the US and Israel, however, for the Islamic terrorists choice of morals.

If the US with hundreds of bilions spent on intelligence had to rely on Israel for its intelligence, it does not speak well of the country and does not speak well of our intelligence community. We might as well subcontract our national security to Israel, since this is the view of our generals. The fact that any professor or politicians who criticise Israel is finished professionaly is a proof that the Israeli lobby is in charge in the US. The US is an Israeli Occupied Territory.

is undoubtedly of the same relative value, same relative truthfulness and presented for a similar end purpose as Ahmad Chalabi's "intelligence" about pre-invasion Iraq, including the same wild accusations about nonexistent WMDs.

The truth is out about AIPAC and you might as well get used to it. Americans are going to become familiar with the lobbying process and the huge cost in life, limb, and fortune for America to support Israel's genocide of the Palestinians. It should be clear to all after the debacles of Afghanistan, Lebanon, and Iraq that we will never see the day when Israel can dominate the Middle East militarily and the USA can steal all the oil. It's not going to happen. Israel is teetering on the brink, and if the next American president does not force a return to the '67 borders or cut off the welfare to Israel we will see the destruction of Israel, probably by Pakistan (which already has nukes) in the not too distant future. Israel is playing the fool and I hope this book helps clarify the facts of the matter for Americans.

this muslim anger toosoft is a composite anger or a homogenouos anger?? does it express through the press or is there a another undetectable agency which expresses it ? israel is leverage for the usa in many ways !! now the russsian have decided to enter the mid east again israel will be a decided asset !

what you whant wictor,hi is from toronto

Why bother with your byassed comments, how are going to stop terrorism with persintent annexation and disposation of territory and homes. This only creates more terror not only in Palestine but other areas in Middle east, and the rest of the world,AlQeda has easy time recruting when this sort of behaviour is allowed to go on. American and European soldiers are dying every day from terrorism .

"The situation today (in the post-Cold War) is reversed. Israel is a source of trouble in the "war on terror". The Israel-Palestinian conflict is one of the causes of Muslim anger against the West. When a war breaks out, such as in the two Gulf Wars, Israel has to be prevailed upon to remain inactive, and has to be paid for it. These are plain facts. I would like to hear the opposite assessment, but have no much hope to hear valid arguments." - Tosefta "Sir, ?" - Tov-17 What I said means that I believe it is the case that at this period in hisoty, Israel is not a strategic asset for the US but a burden. I would like somebody to convince me otherwise, but have no real expectation that this will happen because what I said seems to me to be the truth. However, I always keppt the possibility open that I made the wrong judgment.

For once....and at last.... a little much-needed Public Relations for the Jewish State, which is in sore need of it. Israel is weak in this field whereas the Arabs excel. Abe Foxman's 'The Deadliest Lies' should be interesting and will be released on 4th September. Arab Propaganda is excellent and most successful aganst the Jewish people and it is being felt in almost every corner of the world today. In fact, it is even fashionable to be anti-semetic! But the one place that Walt-Mearsheimer may find a little Opposition is in Australia where the Government is very Pro-Jewish and Pro-Israel, for a change.

Sorry to correct you. The 1967 War had nothing whatsoever to do with Israel's 'expansion'..... but more to do with the Arabs' Determination to destroy the little State of Israel which was LEGALLY recreated in May 1948 which they opposed. So... with the Combined Forces of 4/5 Great Arab Armies they attacked Israel in June 1967 and one by one Arabs were defeated. As always, Israel fought alone, with no help from America or any other nation and it was in this War that Jerusalem was captured and once again in the hands of the Jewish people as their Eternal Capital.

You believe 'there are thousands of people sitting at their computers ready to pounce......" on anyone who may try to deligitimize the image of Israel. One may even say the same of the Muslim/Arabs who outnumber the Jews by millions! only the Jews do not need thousands by using different names to do so, they have, one must admit, the Brains. In the past years, there have been 126 Jewish Nobel Prize Winners which says something......

Is like denying that the sun rises in the east! Even a blind person can see that!

"I would like to hear the opposite assessment, but have no much hope to hear valid arguments" Sir, ?

Larry, what is the deal here? "Saddam sent money to the terrorist that blew themselves up" - was that before they blew themselves up or after? What you probably were trying to say was that he sent +/- $25.000.- to the families of those that had blown themselves up. Insofar as reasons for this iraqi adventure, I believe that you are essentially right: It was revenge since Saddam had tried to kill his father (who by the way, didn't finish the job the first time around.) But ask yourself "what country benefitted from this Iraqi fiasco?" Only one: Israel - since its main enemy was liquidated! So what kind of a "stratgic asset" is Israel? One that feeds "intelligence data" that will benefit but one country: Israel!

If you want to know a little more about the lillehammer affair and other issues relating to Intelligence history in norway you should have a look at Lund kommisjonens rapport. It`s available at stortingets homepage, or perhaps google:) It`s an interesting read. I got the impression from reading it that different ex mossad agents who author books about israeli operations and successes mostly lie/make stuff up. I also get the impression that Israels opperations in European countries have been more or less amateurish. The only reason they were not caught more often is because of politics and friends in the right places able to delay police investigations. The agents were released early, however the dammage to the mossad had already been done. Probably their operations in most nato countries suffered severly due to the Lillehammer affair.

in that norway is not important. However you miss understod my post/ I was unable to convey what I mean. I equate Europe with the US in the matter of free speach. In norway there is a lot of interest in the middle east compared to many other european countries. Hence the extreeme rights ability to influece the debate like in the US, is small, since norwegians look through their arguments. Other european countries are not that interested, and hence are more susceptible to the rights arguments. However the debate in european countries is not muffled like in the US, and as time passes and interest rises, the right will find it incrisingly difficult to influence policy. I guess i`m kinda wondering how long the US debate can continue to be framed by the rights worldview. (terrorist vs. freedom fighter, security prisoners vs. political prisoners, fence vs. wall, neighbourhoud vs. illegal settlement etc....)

the trouble is that the current pro-israel loby is not acting in israel's long term interests. they support or cover up the illegal settlement policy and the "no one to talk to" policy. it may fine for now, but long term these shortsighted policies will make it impossible for there to be a 2 state solution. a one state solution will either lead to a non jewish state or an apartheid pariah state like the old south africa

The war in 1967 had nothing to do with Israels defense, only with its expansion.

"political parties and virtually all our national leaders agree with the American people's view that supporting Israel is politically sound and morally just" US political parties, national leaders and people are known to have been wrong before, or rather, frauded, apinned and propagandized into believing something totally besideds the truth. Support for Israel may be politically sound, but support for a racist, semi-democratic society that doesn't care for the rights of non-Jews can hardly be morally just.

it would speak out against israel regularly. it's funny how all you unrelenting die-hard posters condemn and mock REAL human rights groups on a regular basis, even those from within israel, when they actually DO speak out against both sides; and yet the adl to you is an organization of substance? it IS everything you accuse the REAL human rights orgs of being. now isn't that lovely?

I can't understand how Gold or someone else could deny the Mearsheimer and Walt report,even a blind man may sees that the report is true.Where is an identity of interest Israel with Americans,in Israel's colonisation policy,in Israel's spread of cheak points,in Israel's permanent refuse to speak with Palestinian Authority on serious questions?70% of americans think that USA should withdraw from Irak,who is for to stand is Olmert and AIPAC and so on.Take for instance a vote in Senate on Gaza issue:98-0 to support Israel and to punish the Gazans people.98-0 this could be a score in a normal situation?

The American support for Israel,direct,overt or covert,incited by AIPAC or motivated by Christian belief cannot even begin to counter the effects of hatred,demonising and dehumanising of that country and its people by the globalised cohorts of the prejudiced anti-Jewish hatemongers scapegoating Israel in order to cover up the abismal crimes committed by its enemies world wide. Without such support Jews would be displaced,discriminated,humiliated and exterminated again like they have been in the not so distant past and this is exactly what you and your ilk Hannah would like to see happenning. Zionism is our defence mechanism Hannah and no matter how much you discredit it we will fight for it cause we will never again allow our people to be taken away like cattle to the slaughterhouse to satisfy your prejudices

Many thanks for your message, Larry. I appreciated it. You're not a small man.

At what point does American support for Israel become reduced to a few Americans involved in an exhibit in the United States? It seems your argument is with those who privately funded the exhibit. I'm not exactly certain the reason for your heated anger towards me. It was a tremendous pleasure for me to visit Israel and imbibe as much Israeli culture -- Jewish and Arab -- as possible in my limited, but totally awesome two week trip. Visiting Israeli galleries was one of my pleasurable memories. I am indebted to those Israelis who have made the archaeological treasures available for simple, nonimportant tourists like me. Personally I pray for Israel, contribute to private charities for those at risk in Israeli society, support US aid for Israel, and purchase products made in Israel, including art. Multiply me with millions by others of Americans.

CLIKKY AND" MY BEST IS JEWISH " IS AS OLD AS THE HILLS!! YOUR COMMENTS ON ISRAEL ARE IN THE REALMS OF TOTAL STUPIDITY AS THEY EXPECT OF ISRAEL A NON HUMAN CONDITION ! MOREOVER YOU JUMP ON EVERY INCIDENT WHICH IS UNPROVEN AND RAIL AGAINST ISRAEL IMMEDIATELY!! IN EUROPE IN WW2 PEOPLE WITH JEWISH FRIENDS WERE THE FIRST TO TURN THEM TO THE NAZIS

the american propensity to look at issues in isolation,without considering the influence of history among other things, is prehaps its single biggest weakness. the us wants to support israel, thats no one elses business..... but at what cost? the worlds only hyper power, oldest democracy, but immature as hell. it could have "ruled" the world....with the worlds blessing... but it blew it!... whew indians have the most"favourable" view of the us after the americans.... read what "favourable" means in the "us and them" by barkha dutt, in the "hindustantimes.com" dated25th august 2007

HAVE YOU GUYS CONSIDERED THAT IF THERE IS GOOD INTELLIGENCE GOING TO THE USA FROM ISRAEL IT COMES FROM THE CIA FROM WHOM ISRAELI AGENTS STOLE IT AND TOOK IT TO ISRAEL. YOU WILL RECALL, WILL YOU NOT,THAT A NUMBER OF ISRAELIS AND SOME AMERICAN HAVE BEEN CONVICTED OF THIS SPECIFIC FORM OF ESPIONAGE. OF COURSE IT COULD BE "TOO GOOD" COULD IT NOT.

"Gina,its difficult to vote them out" Well good luck, then.

LET'S CHALLENGE THE TRUISM THAT ISRAEL IS A DEMOCRACY; IF A COUNTRY EXPELS ITS MAJORITY POPULATION FROM CERTAIN AREAS AND THEN HOLDS ELECTIONS IN THE VACATED SPACE WHERE IT NOW IS IN THE MAJORITY, IS THAT A DEMOCRACY? PARTICULARLY IF IT THEN OPPRESSES THE REMNANT OF THE FORMER MAJORITY, VIOLATING ITS RIGHTS SYSTEMATICALLY AS WELL AS THE REFUGEES IT CREATED-IN BLATANT VIOLATION OF INTERNATIONAL LAW. NOW THAT COUNTRY WITH 5 MILLION PEOPLE GETS MORE FOREIGN AID THAN ANY OTHER, AND THE JEWISH LOBBY CONVINCES BOTH PARTIES IN THE US TO ADOPT BRUTAL MILITARISTIC POLICIES THAT ARE THE SAME AS THOSE OF ISRAEL:DIVIDE &RULE. THESE POLICIES HAVE FAILED AND WILL BRING RUIN TO BOTH COUNTRIES. COULD JEWS DO WORSE?

"False Hannah" seems to be working overtime just recently. Her loss, not ours. Regards, Silvienne

Since by the terms of your own response, you were unable to comprehend my basic point, I will make it crystally clear for you. The issues here are not limited to American support of Israel's "right to exist." Rather, the issues also include American support for Israeli culture, research, science, art and other fundamental aspects of Jewish civilization in Israel without which Israel's right to exist would be reduced to a sentimental and quite empty ideological dogma. In the case in point, support for Israel appears to have been conditioned on the humiliating exclusion of some of Israel's most important researchers from a major American museum exhibit. That such an outrage simply strikes you as something irrelevant to the discussion, reveals on what level of ignorance you are operating. Your little remark about "web traffic" is SO CLEVER, it really shows how aware you are of the significant cultural problems that some of us happen to be following with great concern.

Perhaps you don't have the sensitivity to the continued existence of Israel and its significance to someone with my background. I am a child of the Holocaust and my late father was a survivor of Auschwitz. My late mother was a survivor of French persecution and was thankfully sheltered by nuns in the South of France. I never did get to know whether she was disguised as a nun or just hidden in a basement. I was always raised to have a liberal mind where Non Jews were concerned. Nonetheless my experiences growing up were rife with Anti Semitism even here in glorious Canada. Perhaps I internalized the comments by both you and others on this site. However I feel that there is a proper way to criticize and an improper way. You always have been able to ignite my passion in a negative way. Therefore if I have insulted your Pro Jewish sensibilities then I do apologize. I am sure that if were to meet we could have some candid friendly conversations. Thanks for the enlightenment I appreciate it.

You may want to take a look at the rigged GWB win in 2000 before you use the word 'democracy' in connection with the USofA. I am well aware that that word is the first bead on every American's patriotic rosary; however, that does not take away from the fact that 'democracy' is just another fantasy which you yanks have bought wholesale. Good luck on your research on the hollowness of that particular concept in your country. Regards, Hannah.

More and more Americans are becoming concerned about the zionist genocide which they are supporting through their tax dollars. However, we've seen nothing yet. When the US dollar goes down, as it surely will, and soon, and the USofA goes into a terminal fiscal decline, you can bet that the everyday American will be plenty p-ssed off with so-called Israel and its constant begging.

America supports freedom loving democracies. Thats why we support Israel. But why do we also support Egypt, Saudi Arabia, UAE, Afghanistan? Are these freedom loving democracies? No they are not. So which is it....do we support democracies or not?

I have been trying to think of when Israel gave the US better intelligence than the CIA produced. There was Saddam's vast arsenal of chemical and biological weapons back in 2002. And they were so good as to tell us all the details of 9-11 on 9-10. And there was the warning of the attack on the US Liberty. When I can think of a time when Israel gave the US intelligence which was not self-serving or outright false, I will let you know. Until then, I'll prefer our own politically responsive and semi-competent intelligence to the politically motivated and utterly unreliable stuff we are given.

Gina,its difficult to vote them out when AIPAC funds campaigns with huge sums but more and more Americans are becoming aware that AIPAC has the interest of israel in mind and not that of the U.S..Former rep. Paul Findley is one who lost to AIPAC's $.Read his book "They Dare To Speak Out".It is not just the Palestinian issue AIPAC is concerned with,they influence every aspect of our middle east policy.

I'm not certain what exactly American support of Israel's right to exist as a Jewish state free from Arab terrorism has to do with your post. Are you not satisfied with the net traffic to the site you posted?

i UNDERSTAND UR DEFENSE. Without historic beckground ur response is quite right and logical. But ur defense is WRONG NONETHELESS because u dont know Jewish history, that antisemites always complained about Jewish proper , no matter how little they had. What do u think Hitler said about Jews? What do u think Polish antisemites said about the poor Jews of pre-war Poland? Exactly that. In short, Jewish power is a shorthand for saying" NO MATTER HOW LITTLE THEY HAVE, THEY HAVE TOO MUCH"

God dag, god dag. Fint at det er en nordman som poste her. (Tr.: Hello, nice to see a Norwegian on these threads.) Last night, I went to the internet in order to refresh my memory about the Lillehammar Affair, one of the few times a Mossad operation was exposed in the early '70s in Norway. It does point out the sneaky, lying, underhanded way that the zionists operated then and operate now. I like your analysis: please do keep posting. Hilsen fra Hannah.

And vote in congressional reps who instead support Palestinians and their pet terrorist groups. What's your timeframe?

I agree that we OUGHT to support Israel, but I don't understand how it supports Israel to arrange, in a truly sleazy manner, to exclude a series of major Israeli specialists (including the leaders of the IAA's official archaeological team who have reached stunning conclusions after ten years spent reexamining the Qumran site) from a six million dollar Dead Sea Scrolls exhibit in the planning of which Christian fundamentalists were involved. I was dismayed by the Nowpublic articles I've read on this topic, which expose unethical conduct and a level of corruption that should be repugnant to any decent, civil-minded person. Yet neither Rosner, the CHIEF U.S. correspondent for Haaretz, nor any other journalist writing for a so-called mainstream newspaper, has had a single word to say about this sordid affair. It really makes you wonder about how stupid the world is becoming, if we are incapable of criticizing our own actions. I prefer not to take baths in dirty water.

If you don't believe AIPAC owns congress go to "Washington Report on Middle East Affairs".They provide current $ totals provided by AIPAC to members of congress.Note how the really big contributions are to those on committees important to Israel,Democrat or Republican doesn't matter.

Ting, you compare attitudes to Israel in the United States and Norway. Please bear in mind that the United States is an important country and what people say and do there can have repercussions around the world. Norway, in contrast, is ... how can I say this politely ... not quite as important. What people say there doesn`t really matter.

Yep, Olivia is a specimen of well-ingested zionist propaganda in her shut-down, non-think myopic and zionist view. However, she stands equally guilty of the zionist crimes-against-humanity as those who actually pull the trigger or drop the bombs. There is no escape from that responsibility, and her stupidity will not excuse her from blame.

I make neither head nor tail out of your post. However, I do recognize the name of disgraced and convicted American/zionist felon, Eliot Cohen: are you attempting to quote him or what?

Although you are obviously too dense to have noticed it, you are precisely parroting the position of the zionist lobby in the USofA: you require censorship in order to hold the mouths of zionist critics firmly shut. You are pitiful; however, you are completely in tune with your fellow lying zionists. You and they will not be successful. The cat is out of the bag. We can all now see how ugly that zionist cat is. The world continues to turn, and the world's attitudes toward the genocidal realm of zionism continues to develop, much to the disgrace of you and your ilk.

with or without AIPAC. The US will support the Palestinians once they ruthlessly reject their terrorist groups.

May I be so bold as to attempt some vague answer to your questions? When one builds one's house upon a zionist sandbank of lies, then one tends to panic when the rains come down, and some truth-tellers are courageous enough to analyze the life-lies of the zionists. That is what is happening now. Good. It is rather dismaying that all potential candidates for President in both the Republican and Democratic parties are all still in their bended-knee positions at the crotch of zionist lobbyists.

"the Palestinian fight for freedom and independence." Palestinian terrorist groups who murder Israeli civilians in restaurants and and blow up buses aren't fighting for a Palestinian state side by side with the Jewish state of Israel. Palestinian terrorist groups are fighting for the land of Israel as well. All one has to do is listen to interviews with failed or pre-suicide bombers to know this. Arabs in the US who supported Hamas' efforts to derail Oslo (and thus derail Peace and derail the Palestinian state )left behind documentation which has been presented in the Holy Land Foundation trial.

I happen to be from Canada, right next to Detroit...and I can tell you I know more about American politics? than a large part of America does. Have you heard of this thing called the internet, or maybe CNN, Fox News, ECT. Most Americans are ignorant, and gullible, that's why the country is falling apart. Also to attack where he lives and not the actual argument shows the weakness of your side.

You are so right when you say: "more and more people are not buying the 'anti-Semitic trick' anymore when it comes to jewish power and influence and the investigation of how that works." I would, however, like to correct you in your language usage. Please do not use the word "Jew" when your probably mean "zionist". There are many honest Jews who have not sold their soul to the current company store; ie., zionism; and who, in fact, are working very hard to pursue the traditional Jewish values of justice and fairness, particularly in standing up for the Palestinian people against zionist genocide. Needless to say, these Jews are not zionists, so I would ask you not to include them in the society of zionist lepers and outcasts from humanity. Regards, Hannah.

Interesting post, A-L-H, and I agree. However, it does say a good deal about how incompetent the CIA is; after all, if MOSSAD, Shin Bet, etc., are five times better than the CIA, and the above-named, so-called Israeli intelligence services are mediocre at best (viz last summer's colossal zionist defeat at the few hands of Hez'b Allah), then we can rest assured that these clowns will continue to bump into each other in the night. Good.

I am glad they quoted Haaretz. It is my favorite news source.

Yeah, Israels intelligence helped us invade Iraq, and soon will help us invade Iran. Let Israel act on their excellent intelligence on their own instead of sending Americans to fight their wars of aggression against their enemies.

Al-Qaeda (mujaheddin generally) was born in large part due to US intervention. Get informed... http://www.counterpunch.org/wright08232007.html

When the W/M article came out a year ago, Rosner was hard at joining the chorus of the anti W/M (and like wise anti carter) crowd but to no avail. You see, in both cases the core of their theses is correct even if the text has some glaring inaccuracies. The W/M original article was well referenced and it was clear then as it is now that what they have to say will stick. At the time I maintained in my posting that the Israel Lobby has its work cut out for because of the prevailing pro Israel mood in Congress. That mood is based on religious as well as political considerations. Many of the Christian Zionists urge their reps. to vote for Israel's interests come what may and the military industrial complex has its say all the same. That this pro israel stance is not in the best interest of the US speaks for itself. Just ask the professionals at the state department.

American Jews have been disproportionately successful in the arts, sciences, business/finance, law, medicine and other important professions. Jewish organizations and individuals have also been disproportionately successful in influencing US policies involving Israel. While the focus here has been on AIPAC and congress, perhaps more important has been the American Enterprise Institute and its Jewish neocon allies influence on the executive branch. The real problem, as I see it, is that the "help" given Israel has been disproportionately unsuccessful in outcome. Support and encouragement of Israel's handling of the Palestinian issue has certainly been counterproductive. The US action in Iraq, and possible actions in Iran that have a "help Israel" component, are more recent indications of misguided policies that will probably end up detrimental to Israel's long term development as a democratic society. Pity.

Sorry about that--I twice accidentally hit the return key before even getting to the message itself.

People expressing views in opposision to the Israeli right wing are labeled as anti-semites, or self haters if they are jews. People of middle eastern origin are labeled terrorists and subjected to harasement for expressing support for the pals. Here in my little anti-semitic paradise we see guys like finkelstein etc, expressing their views, which to us simple scandinavians seems quite self evident. However in the US it seems he is public enemy number one. Seems to me that in the US you have free speech as long as you don`t critize Israel. Some times I wonder if most americans think antisemitsm = critisizing Israeli policy. If that were the case I would think Israel was the most antisemtic country in the world....

I agree about Walt-Mearsheimer, but I also think Israel is seriously damaging its reputation (to put it mildly) by cooperating with Christian evangelicals in exchange for various kinds of support. This is really the apex of stupidity, and a matter for grave concern rather than the usual embarrassed silence. For the latest example of such cooperation, see the article by Charles Gadda entitled "Christian fundamentalism and the Dead Sea Scrolls in San Diego," the link is http://www.nowpublic.com/node/582470 It is astonishing that not a single mainstream newspaper has even mentioned the facts gathered by Gadda.

You are correct. There is no connection between Al Qaeda and the Palestinian fight for freedom and independence. Please insist on your Israeli cousins to stop equating Palestinian militancy with Al Qaeda.

The statement of the general can be construed to be that the US had to bring valuable intel to the table in nato in order to have an intelligence impact in the disqusions:) Israeli information could ble valuable in the area of military doctrine and equipment, and perhaps some intel on the USSR Med. fleet. However if you consider the fact that the soviets only exported downgraded weapons to autoritarian states usually more concerned with staying in power than winning the war, the value of this intel becomes questionable. If you rank intel contribution I would think Israel comes far down on the list. The UK was number one. Then there was the central, northern and southern flank. Germany, Norway and Turkey. Due to the soviet use of the barents sea as a launch platform for nukes, Norways value increased during the eighties. With the US financing the bulk of Norwegian inteligence, it took a serious hit when the cold war and the unlimited resources dried up.

A former general, an Israeli ambassador, an ADL representative, a Jewish U.S. State Department counselor, a Jewish senior editor at the conservative Jewish magazine Commentary... whoa! And on the other side, two respected scholars. You may not agree with them or be displeased by the issue discussed, but you have to agree that in terms of credibility, as the French would say: "Il n'y a pas photo!"

I am going to wait for the book to come out before I formulate an opinion about it. But, I once heard that assets are small donkeys.

During the 48-67 timeline israel was more or less unaligned in regards to the cold war. Also it was more of a client of european countries(France and UK). Eisenhower did not approve of the 56 war, and this made the US sceptical of Israel. In the period of the 67 war Israel choose sides in the cold war. Quite sensible since it`s enemies were increasingly using soviet weapons. Also there was Kissinger in the US admin supporting Israel views.(Is he jewish?). Hence the needs of the cold war secured arms for the bastion of the free world in the middle east. However after the end of the cold war, I would say the Israeli lobby suplied most of the reasoning behind the military aid.

"I find it comical that all the anti semites pull out of their bag of tricks the comment that they "have Jewish friends" or "work for jews" or they know someone "who is Jewish that is wonderful"." Perhaps you could give me some advice, Larry. I, a well known antisemite of this parish, was brought up in Cheetham Hill in North Manchester. I grew up with Jewish kids, played with Jewish kids and was schooled alongside Jewish kids. I have tons of Jewish friends. The best man at my wedding was a Jew I've known since I was 11 years old. From what you were saying to Mark B, none of this sort of background can be mentioned because, of course, in attacking Israel we are simply demonstrating that we are anti-semites and are trying to minimise our "offence". Have I got it right? Can we "anti-semites" never mention the Jewish friends we have?

larry for your information aldof hitler was not a housepainter,so much for what you know

"In 1997, Fortune magazine asked Congressmen to rank the "25 most powerful" lobbying organizations in DC. In 2005, the National Journal did the same. Both times, AIPAC came in 2nd - ahead of, for instance, the AFL-CIO and the NRA, but behind the AARP." - Wikipedia That AIPAC is an extremely powerful lobby is a well-known truth. And it uses its power when it believes Israeli interests will be advanced, even when the US and the ISRAELI government think otherwise, for example, passing the US Embassy in Jerusalem law in the year following the Oslo agreement (in an attempt to undermine the agreement!). Once upon a time, in the days of the Cold War, Israel was a strategic asset to the US. A number of Arab countries (Egypt, Syria, Iraq) were allied with the USSR, and a democratic country in the ME and near Saudi Arabia was important. Israeli-Arab wars made Western weapons appear superior, and provided Soviet weapons in working condition for analysis in the US. Intelligence in the Soviet block was also gathered by faithful Jews. The situation today is reversed. Israel is a source of trouble in the "war on terror". The Israel-Palestinian conflict is one of the causes of Muslim anger against the West. When a war breaks out, such as in the two Gulf Wars, Israel has to be prevailed upon to remain inactive, and has to be paid for it. These are plain facts. I would like to hear the opposite assessment, but have no much hope to hear valid arguments.

You live in Canada - so what the heck do you know about our US problems with israel?

The American Israel Public Affairs Committee welcomed the accelerated push for tougher sanctions on Iran. "By strengthening the sanctions against Iran, Congress is sending a strong message that America and our allies will use all economic pressures available to encourage the regime to abandon its pursuit of nuclear weapons," AIPAC spokesman Josh Block said.

The hysterical reaction to Walt and Mearsheimer's balanced piece shows their attackers are afraid of something. No one, not Benny Morris, not Dershowitz, has rebutted their work. The real travesty is the shrill attack on them by people who refuse to acknowledge the truth. Americans owe their first loyalty to the US. Period.

Most of the elites in government, journalism, and the think tanks know that the public is viscerally opposed to foreign aid (whereby the elites no doubt believe this is another sign of the dumb provincialism of the American people). Nevertheless, the elites are careful not to run afoul of the public mood ? too much discussion about foreign aid in the context of Israel might cast that country in a more negative light to the voters.

Mearsheimer and Walt must not be allowed to speak anywhere. We?re told that Foxman was actually invited to appear at the forum, but had to wash his hair that night, or something, so couldn?t make it. I wonder if the usual representatives of Israeli interests ? Foxman, Dershowitz, Ledeen, Pipes, etc, ? would accept the idea that whenever they speak, or write anything, the American side must be allowed a rebuttal?

I find it comical that all the anti semites pull out of their bag of tricks the comment that they "have Jewish friends" or "work for jews" or they know someone "who is Jewish that is wonderful". You sir may have a serious problem conveying your opinions or understanding my Harvard educated comments. The mere fact that you must resort to name calling demonstrates very clearly that you are lacking the intellectual capacity to understand my remarks properly. I suggest you go back to kindergarten and take the school process all over again. People of intelligence don't resort to name calling. And last but not least your use of whining is atypical of Anti Semites response to Jews demonstrating exactly what you are.

how many lobbies are their in the usa clikky 1000 or 2000 but as usual pick on the jews they are easy meat !! how about the oil lobby they have no influence ? or did thye also back the iraq invasion ? the irish lobby backed the ira !! you must get someone to remedy the anti semitic software you use !!

What is the meaning of freedom of speech? You might think it means simply the right to say what you want, constrained only by a few common-sense barriers against injuring others. There is, however, another definition of free speech propounded by the likes of Stephen Walt, John Mearsheimer, Jimmy Carter, and other Israel-bashers. By this definition, freedom of speech consists of their right to say what they want without having to suffer demurral or criticism. They complain that supporters of Israel ?stifle debate? by, well, debating with them.

I am not sure if any other country or cause encourages this kind of mainly voluntary propaganda work, but I am sure that no other country or cause has the human resources that Israel can rely on to carry it out. There are thousands of people sitting at their computers ready to pounce. (I know because I have received abusive emails from them, unless it's just a handful with thousands of different email addresses.) They do not need orders or much guidance. They do it because they love Israel and see it as part of their life's work to protect Israel's image.

the book, ?Foreign Agents,? is a searing indictment of AIPAC in the Court of Public Opinion. It also exposes how its tentacles influence the Mass Media. Marylanders now know, too, that one of its U.S. Senators, Barbara Mikulski, receives ?daily? phone calls from AIPAC honchos, as she persists in voting to fund the unjust and illegal Iraqi War. (8) Folks who wonder, too, why there has never been a full Congressional hearing on the Israelis? vicious assault, in 1967, on the USS Liberty, will have to look no further then this treatise. (9) While, Rep. Tom Lantos (D-CA) and Sen. Joe Lieberman (IND), two of AIPAC?s assets on Capitol Hill, are hawking for a U.S. led attack on Iran, the U.S.-subsidized-Apartheid state of Israel is crushing the life out of the Palestinians and making more enemies for us in the Islamic World. (10) I submit that this book should be read by every American who cares about the fate of the Republic.

The problem of lobbying groups in Washington is a big one and focusing only on AIPAC is wrong. What we need here is reform on how business is done on the Hill. One day AIPAC is the bad guy and the next day the pharmacy industry or the Saudi oil lobby. They are all up there pushing their own interests much too much. They have a corrupting influence on the government and on life in America and that includes AIPAC. Personally the pharmacy industry bother me much more than political or foreign country's lobbying groups but they are all negative by definition.

Mr. Smith cites a dated survey that indicated that about ?80 percent of the members of Congress now have former AIPAC interns on their staffs.? That survey was taken almost a decade ago. It was mentioned in a 1998 presentation by Dr. John Duke Anthony, the head of the National Council on U.S. Arab Relations, ?NCUSAR,? and spotlighted in the prestigious ?Washington Report on Middle East Affairs? magazine. (4) It would be worth finding out AIPAC?s true Capitol Hill penetration today, but such relevant statistics are rarely, if ever, available for a variety of reasons.

Grant F. Smith?s latest book, ?Foreign Agents: The American Israel Public Affairs Committee From The 1963 Fulbright Hearings to the 2005 Espionage Scandal,? reveals the controversial history of the influential lobbying organization, known as ?AIPAC?. It comes on the heels of his insightful tome, ?Deadly Dogma,? an expose? of the Neocons, where he evidenced their lethal scheme, which they called ?A Clean Break,? to destabilize Iraq. (1) In this new book, ?Foreign Agents,? Mr. Smith argues that AIPAC, a corporation, should be required to register as a foreign agent for Israel. He accuses it of morphing into a ?secretive political intelligence-gathering and covert operations powerhouse...and Israeli-controlled entity in America.? Naturally, AIPAC disagrees with him.

The sympathetic journalist Philip Weiss has posted the letter Mearsheimer and Walt sent to the board of the Chicago Council expressing their belief "that the decision to cancel our appearance is antithetical to the principle of open discussion that underpins American democracy, and that is so essential for maximizing the prospects that our country pursues a wise foreign policy."

On page 10, they observe that "The Arabs ... had been in continuous possession of [Palestine] for 1300 years," which is incorrect, and that there were "only about 15,000 Jews in Palestine" in 1882, which is also incorrect. (Typically, Mearsheimer and Walt cite as their authority Justin McCarthy's The Population of Palestine, without noting that he also assumed the existence of additional thousands of Jews in Palestine who were not Ottoman citizens.)

Accurate descriptions and maps of the Israeli offer in July and the Israeli-endorsed Clinton parameters of December--as well as the Palestinians' spurious map of what was offered them--may be found in Dennis Ross's The Missing Peace. Ross was the chief American Middle East negotiator. (Mearsheimer and Walt rely on a map contained in The New Intifada, edited by Roane Carey; but Ross, unlike Carey, was party to and knew in great detail what went on, and was privy to all the documentation.) In his autobiography, Clinton backs to the hilt Ross's version of what was said and offered (as does Shlomo Ben-Ami, who was the Israeli foreign minister at the time, in his recent book Scars of War, Wounds of Peace: The Israeli-Arab Tragedy, which elsewhere is highly critical of Israel). All three state clearly that Arafat said no. Mearsheimer and Walt, amateur students of the subject with a political ax to grind, transform this no into a yes.

Whatever the flaws in the W-M piece (and what article or book on any subject is free of flaws?) the fact remains that the Israeli lobby has a grip on the US Congress and the press that is unhealthy for America. None of the flyspecking of the book, or Jimmy Carter's book, can erase that fact. (I think in the end it will turn out to be unhealthy for Israel, too, but I will let Israelis decide that.) If you want a simple indicator--it is very difficult to publish articles in the US critical of Israel that are routinely published in Haaretz, ironic as that may be, or to have the kind of debate that goes on among Israelis. Would Israelis put up with a US lobby that involves itself in Israeli politics and smothers any criticism of America?

From Mearsheimer and Walt, you would never suspect that the creation of the Palestinian refugee problem in 1948 occurred against the backdrop, and as the result, of a war--a war that for the Jews was a matter of survival, and which those same Palestinians and their Arab brothers had launched. To omit this historical background is bad history--and stark dishonesty. It is quite true, and quite understandable, that the Israeli government during the war decided to bar a return of the refugees to their homes--to bar the return of those who, before becoming refugees, had attempted to destroy the Jewish state and whose continued loyalty to the Jewish state, if they were readmitted, would have been more than questionable. There was nothing "innocent," as Mearsheimer and Walt put it, about the Palestinians and their behavior before their eviction-evacuation in 1947-1948 (as there was nothing innocent about Haj Amin al Husseini's work for the Nazis in Berlin from 1941 to 1945, broadcasting anti-Allied propaganda and recruiting Muslim troops for the Wehrmacht). And what befell the Palestinians was not "a moral crime," whatever that might mean; it was something the Palestinians brought down upon themselves, with their own decisions and actions, their own historical agency. But they like to deny their historical agency, and many "sympathetic" outsiders like to abet them in this illusion, which is significantly responsible for their continued statelessness.

Mearsheimer and Walt build their case mainly by means of omission: they tell certain facts while omitting others, sometimes more apt and crucial. And occasionally they distort facts and figures. The thesis of their study, which was supported by the John F. Kennedy School of Government at Harvard University, is that America's support of Israel runs contrary to American national interests, and that it is not grounded in "a compelling moral case." To establish the latter contention, they deny that Israel is the weaker party in the Arab-Israeli conflict; and that it is a democracy; and that "Israel's conduct has been morally superior to [that of] its adversaries."

You wrote: "Benny Morris is one of the countless foot soldiers of the American Jewish lobby." No, not one of the foot soldiers of the American Jewish lobby, but a hugely influential historian on the Palestinian refugee issue, which is why Mearsheimer and Walt cite him in support of their own position. The problem (for them) is that Morris attained his prominence as an historian precisely because of his respect for factual accuracy and he refused to allow them to use HIS OWN work in a dishonest way. I can think of no more stinging rebuke to them than to have an author on whom they rely slap them down in this way.

yona loriner

AIPAC was the driving force behind congressional enactment of the Iran and Libya Sanctions Act during the Clinton administration. AIPAC lobbied vigorously and successfully this summer to block legislation that would require the president to get congressional approval before attacking Iran. It was always Iran - not Iraq.

In fact, Israeli leaders privately told the administration they did not consider Saddam Hussein's regime a mortal threat. The majority of American Jews opposed the war from the outset, notwithstanding an influential circle of Jewish advisers at high levels in the administration.

The Chicago Council on Global Affairs' decision to cancel a forum about a controversial upcoming book on the influence of the pro-Israel lobby on U.S. foreign policy has sparked a heated debate about free speech. http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/chi-israelbook_aug21,1,6109069.story

How can you be against Walt and the other prof and work for this paper who supported them? I understand that this is your work place but you should think about joining a more respectable organization.

NY Review of Books? that's the source of information you have on AIPAC? just try to imagine a reporter coming back to the editors of NYROB saying that he found AIPAC to be a credible, thoughtful, realist and patriotic organization - would they let him write an article? mmmmm, I wonder.... and so should you.

Richard A. Clarke, a subsequent Bush administration critic who was exposed to internal White House thinking about the Iraq War until March 2003, has concluded that most of the rationales for the decision to go to war reflected ?a concern with the long-term stability of the House of Saud.?

There is a striking irony in the way that Walt and Mearsheimer complain about the influence of pro-Israel groups in Washington, and yet both academics were prepared to appear at the National Press Club in August 2006, at the invitation of the Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR), an organization that has received financial support from Saudi and other foreign benefactors abroad and lobbies on behalf of various Middle Eastern causes throughout the United States

Walt and Mearsheimer ignore the fact that al-Qaeda was not born in 1948, 1967, 1973, or in 1982 ? in response to an Arab-Israeli war ? but rather in 1989, following the Soviet defeat in Afghanistan. Bernard Lewis and other Middle Eastern scholars have established that the Palestinian issue was, at best, a tertiary concern for Osama bin Laden, whose jihadi efforts were more focused on Chechnya, the Balkans, Kashmir, and Saudi Arabia

Detractors of the U.S.-Israel relationship like to insinuate that Israel seeks to get America to fight its wars for it. The truth is completely the opposite: while U.S. forces have been stationed on the soil of Germany, South Korea, and Japan to provide for the defense of those countries in the event of an attack, Israel has always insisted on defending itself by itself. If Israel today seeks ?defensible borders,? this is because it wants to deploy the Israel Defense Forces and not the U.S. Army in the strategically sensitive Jordan Valley.

Testifying before the House Armed Services Committee on March 15, 2007, USEUCOM commander General Bantz J. Craddock stated that Israel was America?s ?closest ally? in the Middle East and that it ?consistently and directly? supported U.S. interests.

Exactly what part of their article is wrong? AIPAC is pro-Israel lobby (not really, it is pro-Likud and NeoCon wing of Republican party; but that is another issue). They are an effective lobbying group? In a simlisttic, "realist" amoral sense, it would be better for U.S. to act cozy up to the folks who have oil, and defuse some of the anger of those who have bombs (i.e. muslim terrorists). It is not pretty argument, but it is arguable. The bigger problem is that AIPAC is does not represent either American Jewery, nor Israel per se, rather the Neocon wing of the Repubpicans at home and Likuid in Israel. See Massing's article in NY Review of Books for the factual details, not empty rhetoric: http://www.nybooks.com/articles/article-preview?article_id=19062

As early as December 27, 1962, President John F. Kennedy told Israeli Foreign Minister Golda Meir: ?The United States has a special relationship with Israel in the Middle East really comparable only to what it has with Britain over a wide range of world affairs.?

Miriam wrote: "On page 6, Mearsheimer and Walt assert that Jonathan Pollard, a Jewish-American naval intelligence analyst in the 1980s, provided Israel with classified American material, which Israel reportedly passed onto the Soviet Union to gain more exit visas for Soviet Jewry.To the best of my knowledge, this is a lie." Miriam's best knowledge is not very good, alas. This was documented well by Seymour Hersh in the New Yorker: http://www.newyorker.com/archive/1999/01/18/1999_01_18_026_TNY_LIBRY_000017310 The evidence was basically that Pollard stole secrets of no interest to Israel, but of great interest to the USSR.

When I read these comments it makes me think that next year I will double my AIPAC contribution. We need to be strong and to stand our ground. Luckily for us - the American PEOPLE - and not its academicians - is the one calling the shots.

Maybe that's why he is so angry?

1. WM were critisized also by Ross, Indyk, The Forward, Richard Cohen, and many others who arn't part of the political right. 2. The pro-Israel lobby might be to the right of the entire Jewish community - but not to the right of those who really care. there's a big difference. 3. WM don't critisize the right but rather everybody who ever dealt with Israel and is Jewish. you want to say it's about israel - good for you. but they go after the Jews more than they do after israel. 4. there are times in which even a lefty should recognize that a line was crossed. How do I know? because I'm also more supportive of the left wing faction of Israeli politics (and American) but on WM I can't stay mum. 5. and above all - this was such a sloppy article, really pathetic.

On your personal hate-remarks toward me about the anti-Semiric hatred in my vains I can only say: Gotspe, Gotspe, Gotspe. I might as well say you hate goyim that do not swallow your anti-Semitism mantra because they think for themselves. Maybe it interests you that I have worked for a lot of years for a jewish entrepeneur who was my boss, whom I consider the best employer I ever had. There wasn't a single minute running hatred in my vains while working for him, but of course you know better, i suppose. You are a clown and a whining hypocrite.

You call me an anti-Semitic because I state that Jews have power in the US. So shall I call you a racist because you state that Muslims have power? Your response is exactly what I mean by saying the anti-semitic mantra is ridiculous and counterproductive. That Jews have power is in principle a normal and healthy thing in my mind but to you the mere recognition of that fact is anti-Semitism. Don't you see how blatant stupid that is? Shall we call those American scholars who investigate the way the Saudi lobby works in the US racists? Is it wrong that they do research on that? Of course not. Pople are entitled to know the truth, there is a mighty and powerfull jewish lobby in the Us and it is 100% okay to do research on that like W-M did and to question if this influence is productive and good at all times for the US. Respones like yours feed the idea there is some sort of "conspiracy" that must be kept in the dark.

Yes, all you poor schmucks who just merely toil for us and let us pull all of your puppet strings. We make you full of anger and hatred, we take all your tax money and make you read news items to poison your brain. OMG, if the pinheads like the click, could only see how uninformed and twisted they are, they would turn their face in a shameful haste. I pity you.

Why is it that anyone defending Israel against criticism, especially when not Jewish, is a tool of the Israel lobby, but anyone criticising Israel is a free thinking libertarian speaking the truth for no gain and with no agenda? Why aren't they tools of the anti-Israel lobby? I think this is because you don;t have half the wit given to a horned toad, and lack more than half of its charm. You are a classic anti-semite, seeing conspiracy and evil in all things in any way positive toward Israel or Judaism. I hope your son, of whom you speak so often, grows up to see the error of his bigoted father's ways and comes over here to show us his support, he's welcome at my table any time.

Consider some other examples. On page 6, Mearsheimer and Walt assert that Jonathan Pollard, a Jewish-American naval intelligence analyst in the 1980s, provided Israel with classified American material, ?which Israel reportedly passed onto the Soviet Union to gain more exit visas for Soviet Jewry.? To the best of my knowledge, this is a lie. On page 9, Mearsheimer and Walt write that ?citizenship [of Israel] is based on the principle of blood kinship.? This is an outrageous assertion, with the worst possible echoes. The truth is that since the state?s inception, 15 to 20 percent of Israel?s citizens have been Muslim and Christian Arabs. In 1948-1949, citizenship was granted to all persons living in the country, regardless of race or religion, and it is granted by law after five years of residency and the satisfaction of various qualifications (as in all western democracies) to applicants today regardless of race or religion?though it is true that Jewish immigrants can and do receive citizenship upon arrival in Israel, and it is also true that Israel is a Jewish state, as France is (and, I hope, will remain) a French state and Britain is a British state. On page 12, Mearsheimer and Walt write, referring to my book Israel?s Border Wars, 1949-1956, that Israel?s retaliatory strikes in the early 1950s ?were actually part of a broader effort to expand Israel?s borders.? This is incorrect?and had they used my book honestly, they could not have reached such a conclusion. On page 10, they observe that ?The Arabs ? had been in continuous possession of [Palestine] for 1300 years,? which is incorrect, and that there were ?only about 15,000 Jews in Palestine? in 1882, which is also incorrect. (Typically, Mearsheimer and Walt cite as their authority Justin McCarthy?s The Population of Palestine, without noting that he also assumed the existence of additional thousands of Jews in Palestine who were not Ottoman citizens.) And so on.

Mearsheimer and Walt imply that down to (and maybe even beyond) 1948, the Zionist leadership rejected the partition of Palestine. This is simply false, no matter what misleading quotations they cull from eminent Israeli historians.

Let's do a quick reality check. 1. W&S don't criticize the Jewish lobby; they criticize the Israel lobby, which, by the admission of many, including Haaretz, represents a narrow and right wing segment of the American Jewish population, well to the right of mainstream Jewish and Israeli thought. 2. The debate in the US is much more constrained than in Israel. W&S are castigated in the US, but if their thesis were to appear in Haaretz, it would be decidedly mild compared to, say, Amira Haas. What they said is a terrible sin only because Americans dared to say it. 3. The people opposing Walt and Mearsheimer, Foxman, Dore Gold ("political adviser to then Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu") are on the political right. At the end of the day, W&S attack only the political right, but everyone else (like Rosner) is so TERRIFIED at their temerity that they end up circling the wagons. Take a step back, folks, and have a careful look.

I would recommend that they take a look at any atlas and yearbook for the key years of the conflict?1948, 1956, 1967, 1973. Even a child would notice that the Arab world, stretching from the Atlantic Ocean to the Persian Gulf, does actually ?surround? Israel and is infinitely larger than the eight-thousand-square-mile Jewish state (which is the size of New Hampshire). He would notice also that the population of the confrontation states?Egypt, Jordan, Syria, and Iraq, who were often joined in their wars with Israel by expeditionary forces from Morocco, Saudi Arabia, Libya, and Yemen?has always been at least twenty times greater than Israel?s; and in 1948 it was about fifty times greater. The material resources of the Arab world similarly have been (as they still are) infinitely larger than Israel?s.

the rosen-weismann trial will make it clear to everybody.

This reminds me of something I read in the book "Wise Man" by Walter Isaacson and Evan Thomas (a great book, by the way). William Sullivan, a protege of Averell Harriman, talked to the authors about the relations between Harriman and the foreign-born Brzezinsky. Here's what he had to say: "He [Harriman] thought Zbig was basically a Pole who had never accepted the American ethos. He believed Zbig was perfectly willing to get the U.S. into confrontation with Russia for the sake of Poland."

Was the first one to report and condenm the two academicians and for this I will always be gratefull.

Unfortunately the world is populated by undereducated ignorant hateful people. These same people need to blame others for their failures in life, or the fact that they must do without. The natural target or reason for this is Jews. It is proven time and time again throughout history. I don't know why this happens. I live in Canada a supposedly civilized Multi Cultural country. Yet I too have experienced this attitude of Jews having more, or Jews took my job, or the world would be better off without Jews. Thats why Israel needs a lobby and power to insure that people like you won't erase us from the Earth. You may call it crying or complaining, but it is reality. It doesn't take an esteemed college professor to analyze Anti Semitism. The sad part is when it is brought out, or identified the true anti semites all say we are crying wolf.

The very fact that you use the word "Jewish Power" demonstrates that you sir are antisemitic. So what if Jews have power?? Big deal. Catholics have power, Muslims have power. The thing is that Israel is the Jewish State, so by that connection these two authors are using the "Israeli Lobby" as a politically correct way of saying what you are, Jewish Power. Why is it that when Goyim (Hebrew for other nations) have power, or other religious groups have power, it is acceptable and doesn't come under attack?? But throughout history Jews have to be attacked, murdered and exiled for having wealth and power?? Who are you and people like you to decide what I or my friends or relatives that are Jews are allowed to have?? That sir is anti semitism in its truest and most disgusting form. YOu may not see that, because the blood courses through your veins with hatred. But if you had the depth of intelligence required to analyse what I am saying you would agree.

The most obvious thing in the world was that Iraq was a buffer or foil against the Shite Iran. Even though Saddam sent money to terrorists that blew themselves up, he controlled everyone with an iron fist. You couldn't get together with your neighbour for figs and hookah and utter the word Saddam without someone listening in. What is going on there now is happening because America cant replicate what Saddam did. Brutal yes, but look at who you are dealing with?? The gloves com off, the floodgates open, and its slaughter each other all day long. All AMerica did was take the mask of Islamic hatred off and show the world that Muslims will slit each others throats. That has nothing to do with America. They just removed the barrier. Any junior intelligence analyst could have told you that this was a dangerous move. George W. and his cronies did this for oil, revenge and nothing else. His obscure inane idea of democracy in the Middle East is warped at the least.

American living here is privy to all of Israeli intelligence?? Surely the fact that an inept Prime Minister that didn't heed the advice of his Military advisors must take the lions share of blame. Intelligence has nothing to do with the fact that Israels hands are tied with a vicious response to Qassam missiles. That too has nothing to do with Intelligence. Knowledge and the ability and willingness to act upon it are two very different things. However you are an American after all, so you are an authority just by virtue of physically being in Israel????

Hidden under the pages of academic genius is this drivel from two "Esteemed Professors". I guess when you are a well known academic you could write pretty much anything and get someone to listen. There was a house painter many decades ago that also wrote a book that nobody gave the time of day to. As time wore on, he got more and more people to read it, more and more people to listen, more and more people to follow. Thats not to say that what these two jokers are writing would lead to the following of the house painter, but it is surely Anti Israel, which at the end of the day is Anti Jewish. By the way in case the moronic Islamists that frequent Haaretz don't know, that house painter was Adolf Hitler. But then again, you guys claim there never was a Holocaust. So much for intelligence

"All the fools (and Clickfools) of the world come to your blog to spread their anti-Semitic poison? Can`t you screen the reactions and use only credible argument" Dissenting opinions are a bummer, aren't they, Olivia? I think that what you are looking for is a medium that reinforces your beliefs and doesn't trouble you with a different view of events. Haaretz, which believes in free speech and permits known "antisemites" such as myself to "spread their poison" probably isn't for you. Have you considered the website of the Jerusalem Post? This is "Zionism at Prayer" and may provide you with more comfort.

Not only are these charges wildly at variance with what I have personally witnessed in the Oval Office over the years, but they also impugn the loyalty and the unstinting service to America's national security by public figures like Dennis Ross, Martin Indyk, and many others. As a Christian, let me add that it is also wrong and unfair to call into question the loyalty of millions of American Jews who have faithfully supported Israel while also working tirelessly and generously to advance America's cause, both at home and abroad. They are among our finest citizens and should be praised, not pilloried.

It is a work without a trace of balance, in essence no more than an angry polemic disguised as academic research. 'The Israel Lobby' is a long, bitter, op?ed piece given a patina of respectability because of where the authors are employed. They may feel themselves protected from criticism by tenure and their titles. They live and work in the proverbial ivory towers of an academic environment that has become an Arab?subsidized lobby against Israel.

Lets see Clicky. The Arabs control 25% of the worlds oil and everybody kisses their butts. Nobody more so than the British. Remember your PM Tony the Ahmanutjob kisser?? He did things the best way possible to get his Marines back. The Arabs have plenty of clout in the world, maybe not in the U.S....thankfully. But in Europe and abroad. I wouldn't be surprised if they called for Brits to go out and hang Jews in the streets or the oil would stop, you and your mates would be the first to get the rope and look for trees. So spare us your Cockney drunken rants. Israel surely does have a strong lobby. But you know what?? It serves Americas interests. George W. Bush's ill planned Iraq debacle notwithstanding, Israel surely knew that he was the buffer between insanity and calm. Thats too deep for people like you to comprehend along with these two "Esteemed" professors. I guess anybody with cash can buy a book no matter whether it should have been used for toilet paper in another life.

John J. Mearsheimer and Stephen M. Walt's "The Israel Lobby and U.S. Foreign Policy" is a nasty piece of work. Some of what they assert regarding the terrorist tactics of certain Zionist groups during the 1930s, and the atrocities committed by Israeli troops in the War of 1948, and the harsh Israeli measures against the Palestinians during the second intifada, and certain activities of the pro-Israel lobby in the United States over the past decades--some of this is correct, and I realize as I write this sentence that it will henceforth be trotted out by the Mearsheimers and Walts of the world, as by their Arab admirers, while they omit the previous sentence and all that now follows. But what these distinguished professors have produced is otherwise depressing to anyone who values intellectual integrity....

Great idea Julian??? Have the the US depend/trust the French for reliable information?? The French who are currently expelling Jews from their country and replacing them with muslims, a majority comming from N. Africa. They close a blind eye to the rampent anti semitism and attacks on its Jewish population, made a promise for and effective military presence in Lebenon only to offer several hundred peace keepers, have opposed almost every thing the US attempts at the UN, gives refuge to Palistinian murders of innocent Jewish civilians among many other things. Perhaps we should ask the Russians or Iranians to help the US with intelligence...that would be better than the French.

In November 2001, Seymour Hersh (in an article entitled "The Iran Game") reported Israel's concern that the post-9/11 "war on terror" had diverted U.S. attention from Iran, even as Iran accelerated its nuclear program. Hersh wrote that "even Israel's most skeptical critics in the American intelligence community?and there are many?now acknowledge that there is a serious problem." But the Bush administration put Israel off with assurances that it would get to Iran later.

The authors are hardly the first to so argue, though one wouldn't know it from reading their report, which, as noted, ignores all prior serious work on the subject, including the seminal book refuting such claims, the late Professor A.F.K. Organski's The $36 Billion Bargain: Strategy and Politics in U.S. Assistance to Israel. In 1983 I ran across a Congressional Research Service series on assistance to Israel from 1948 to 1983, and I was surprised by what I saw. The numbers told an important story. Assistance to Israel before 1970 had been very low. After 1972 levels shot up. The data fairly screamed that American Jews could not have been responsible for U.S. policy, for it is elementary that one cannot explain a variable with a constant, and American Jews had been in favor of assistance all along...

Oddly, these international relations realists -- who in their more normal academic lives declare that state interests determine policy, and domestic politics matters little -- have discovered the one case in which domestic politics has, for decades, determined the policy of the world's greatest state. Their theories proclaim the importance of power, not ideals, yet they abhor the thought of allying with the strongest military and most vibrant economy in the Middle East. Reporting persecution, they have declared that they could not publish their work in the United States, but they have neglected to name the academic journals that turned them down.

changed his political view since he wrote his books - that's why he was so eager to go after these clowns.

Why is it really hard to admit that Israel Lobby in the US is the most powerful political lobby in the country. To deny that is almost similar with rejection of the fact that Communist PARTY is still in control in China politic. Because even communism can absorbed pragmatism in their economic policies.

All the fools (and Clickfools) of the world come to your blog to spread their anti-Semitic poison? Can't you screen the reactions and use only credible argument - like the one quoting Morris for example?

While I am not privilege to seeing how much the conservative, pro - Israel lobby does or does not have, one does have to wonder why they are reacting with such vigour to a book written by two academics whose influence in the political circles can only be seen as minimal? If the book has no substance it will be seen to have no substance. Rising to the bait lends it legitimacy and certainly does not help the already tarnished reputation of the conservative lobby groups. Reacting like this does, however, raise questions about their commitment to free speech and open discourse. And why oh why is the ADL getting involved?

If Benny Morris is one of the countless American foot soldiers of the American Jewish lobby, why is it that Mearsheimer and Walt are citing his work to support their own position? I was assuming a certain background knowledge of Morris's work on your part, but clearly that was assuming too much.

Israeli intelligence will take actions which are in Israels interest, regardless of the facts. Isn't this what you would expect from any national intelligence? Israeli intelliigence nurtured Pollard the spy within the American intelligence system. There have also been others, more competent than Pollard. Pollard was incredibly inept and only succeeded because his supervisors were more inept. Israeli intelligence help sell the Americans on Iraq WMD. There was nothing Israel wanted more than an American invasion of Iraq, who had lately been an American ally against Iran. Israeli intelligence will give the Americans things which will return pro-Israeli activity from America and hold back everything else.

they do have an axe to grind in those matters. Remember how they helped fuel the great WMD-in-Iraq hoax, and all those Israeli kids wearing gas masks in front of the media before the US invasion ? Even the US administration acknowledges that, when it comes to the Arab/Muslim world, France secret services are the best, and they are the US' best allies when tracking real terrorists.

The Walt-Mearsheimer Study was a cataclysmic event for the American Jewish Lobby, revealing, as it did, its deeply pernicious influence. It became imperative for that same American jewish Lobby to marshal all of its forces to deny the truth of the study, for without US support Israel is finished. A mountain of Jewish abuse was heaped onto both Walt and Mearsheimer, some of it deeply offensive. We also witnessed the appalling spectacle of a rich Jew withdrawing his financial support from a Harvard college because it dared to allow two people to speak their truth about Israel. Benny Morris is only one of the countless foot soldiers of the American Jewish Lobby. The Walt-Measheimer Study has survived, and is now to be in book form, because it is the truth. And it is patently the truth. Anyone who has eyes can see how influential Jews have manipulated US foreign policy, against its true interests, on behalf of a faraway country. The American Jewish Lobby is a maggot in US democracy

While he is bragging about jewish and/or Israeli influence in the US, he is at the same time calling those who put the finger on that anti-Semitics. Rossner must think the US public is very very stupid. What I find very noticable is that no-one who is against the views expressed by Walt-Mearsheimer is debating the actual content of the book. No-one is coming with arguments aginst the arguments expressed in the book but immediatly plays the "anti-Semitic card" out. Dear Rossner, more and more people are not buying the "anti-Semitic trick" anymore when it comes to jewish power and influence and the investigation of how that works.

Anyone deluded enough to believe that the work of Mearsheimer and Walt represents "truth" should read Benny Morris's critique of their paper, "The Israel Lobby and U.S. Foreign Policy," in the New Republic of 5-8-06. Morris has a certain authority on this matter, because Mearsheimer and Walt regularly cite Morris's work. As Morris puts it: "Mearsheimer and Walt often cite my own books, sometimes quoting directly from them...Yet their work is a travesty of the history that I have studied and written for the past two decades. Their work is riddled with shoddiness and defiled by mendacity." Before making your knee-jerk defense, Clickfool, I suggest you read Morris's critique; the factual errors alone he catches them in makes it worth the read.

The Israeli intelligence failed miserably with a small organization of a few hundreds guerillas (Hizbullah last summer. The Israeli intelligence has also miserably failed with a movement like Hamas, with small ancient weapons dating to WWI. Of course, Jewish-controlled Media in America protray Israel as God-like. In fact, Israeli intelligence is mediocre at best.

So Rosner cites a 1986 quote (that's 21 years ago) by a retired air force chief as his keystone argument. And for an encore, he brings aboard the disgraced Abe "Armenian Genocide Denier" Foxman to further bolster his case. Bottom of the barrel, scraping for our support, are we not?

Serves the American Jewish Lobby right for buying their wooden stakes from Wal-Mart. The Walt-Mearsheimer expose of their pernicious influence on American foreign policy LIVES!!! This time I'd recommend they try a silver bullet or two. Or perhaps the problem is simply that the truth is impossible to kill.