Vatican memo: Mideast conflict driving Christians out of region

Sad, but True...

If it were not so sad it would be funny with the Vatican releasing a document blaming Israel ?occupying? land as the reason for driving Christians out of the Middle East. Let me try to understand this; the Vatican is planning to discuss the plight of Christians in the Middle East in October and this document represents the outline for these discussions. Having just spent a day with members of Israel?s Christian minority, hearing their stories of ?jihad? against them by their Moslem neighbors, including stories of forced marriages of Christian women to Moslem men, Moslems harassing and threatening the Christians, an assault against the Christian mayor of Nazareth, multi-million dollar foreign Islamic investments ?perseverance funds? to buy out Christians from their homes and businesses (I guess that they forgot they are supposed to be boycotting Israel), unilateral destruction of ancient archeological sites of historic significance to Judaism and early Christianity in an attempt to erase our respective connection from the Land, ?conquering? of private Christian schools by Moslem students that relegates Christian students to public schools where they are threatened, boycotts of Christian owned businesses by their Moslem neighbors, and many other allegations that are too vast to list, it?s a wonder what planet the Vatican authors live on that a Jewish Israeli can understand the real threat to Christians in the Middle East that the Vatican can?t. Or, doesn?t want to. I wonder how my friend ?Sami? would respond to the Vatican on this, a Lebanese Christian who welcomed Israel?s invasion to eliminate the PLO in 1982 but fled his home and homeland afterward because of the people who ?stole? his home and business and ?ruined? his life. Who were the thieves that ruined his life? Israel? No, Hizbullah. The Vatican would be well off to spend a day like I did and getting to know the worries and fears of their co-religionists before making stupid and incorrect, not to mention borderline anti-Semitic allegations. Placing blame on Israel for the plight of Christians in the Middle East is about as honest as saying Pope Pius saved millions of Jews during the Holocaust. When issuing documents, let the Vatican find some proof in their archives that disproves that he was no saint in this regard. And while they?re looking, perhaps they can return some of the loot from our Temple that the Romans destroyed 1960 years ago, lest they be accidental accomplices in erasing the Jewish, and Christian, roots of the Land of Israel. If the Vatican does not want to ask the Christians themselves, just take a look at the former Christian cities of Nazareth and Bethlehem. Churches are overshadowed by Mosques whose green illuminated minarets dominate the sky line like an Islamic game of connect the dots. But the Vatican is who needs to be connecting the dots to see the true picture that it is an intolerant stream of Islam that is the guilty party for the plight of the Christians here. Any Vatican discussion of the plight of Christians in the Middle East that is not grounded in reality will relegate the remaining Christians living as an endangered species to extinction. http://jonathanfeldstein.blogspot.com

The Bible will always be the Word o god in the Word of men. it will remain to be the Divine and Natural Law

Christians have been running away from Muslims for too long to come and blame the Middle East situation. That doesn't mean the occupation is right. However, everyone knows that Muslims have made life intolerant for the Christian minority. Razinger, don't poke your big nose into other people's business. Your Holy Vatican was not only silent during the war but actually helped criminals of war to run away by using Vatican passports. Read Uki Goñi.

What drives Christian Arabs from the middle east is Islamist pressure. Ask the Copts of Egypt, the Christians formerly of the Lebanese Christian heartland or the previous Christian Arab residents of Bethlehem.

The conflicts in the ME have been on-going for decades but Christians have only started fleeing since the advent of Islamist violence in 1979.

as a few Christians who didn't have a clue. But seeing as the leaders of pretty much the entire Christian community of the Holy Land who point the finger at the Israeli government's policies for the shrinking of their population, they may merely be pointing out an uncomfortable truth. http://www.oikoumene.org/en/resources/documents/other-ecumenical-bodies/kairos-palestine-document.html

What drives Christian Arabs from the Middle East is Islamist pressure. Ask the Copts of Egypt, the Christians formerly of the Lebanese Christian heartland or the previous Christian Arab residents of Bethlehem.

People like Daniel who believe the Bible gives them license to commit crimes like stealing other people's property and incinerating their children with white phosphorous, are unevolved and immoral. Hey loser, why don't you try reading the Ten Commandmant sometimes? You might learn something.

What else is new? Christians thrive in Jewish-ruled Nazareth, Christians driven out of PA-ruled Bethlehem, which is now a nearly all-Moslem town. And this is the Vatican that demands of Israel sweeping tax benefits they don't get anywhere in the USA. Of course, if they do the "control" experiment, and look at Christians in non-Mideast Moslem countries, what do they see - Christians slaughtered in Moslem Aceh, Churches burned in Malaysia, Christianity nearly extict in Pakistan - 3 countries with 50% of the world's Moslems. Yet Christians are doing well in Hindu India. Israel needs to stop putting up with bigoted crap from Ratzinger (who before becoming Pope, blamed the entire pedophile priest disaster on "greedy (read: Jewish) lawyers". Tell Vatican that they will get no tax benefits in Israel they don't get in USA - NO tax exemption for non-religious for-profit businesses they own, like hotels, and FULL charge for municipal water/electricity use, just as they pay in the USA. What gall!

As late as the turn of the 16th Century, famous people such as Christopher Columbus and Queen Isabela rightly called the Church by its right name in documents, "Christian". Small c catholic means "universal" church. Catholic is an adjective, not a noun and therefore is not the correct name of the Church. Jesus was the first Church, 'gathering place", and Jews and Christians worshipped together in homes, in synagogues, and in the Temple. Church buildings began to be built first in Rome under the orders of the resurrected Jesus, to the Archangels, to the Apostles, etc.

Some Apostles and apostles are also temporarily called as Bishops. Peter was the Bishop of Rome also, and James the Less was the Bishop of Jerusalem, until replacements could be trained.

The Bishop of Rome is completely correct. Islamic military and paramilitary force need to immediately end their occupations of Christian and Israelite lands in what are now called Turkey, Israel, Syria, Lebanon, Jordan, Gaza, Goshen, Pakistan, southern Russia, Eastern Europe, etc. a.k.a. John the Less

Muslim extremism is the direct result of Israeli depradations in Plaestine.Yes,Vatican will never learn.Otherwise it would not have kept quite towrds Israeli brutalities in occupied territories.Christians were as safe in Muslim countries of Middle East before Israel creation.Yes,even in Indonessia, Israeli depradations in Palestine and American aquisiance is responsible for Christians being looked upon with hostility, according to CNN(wich you will never say antsemetic).And about Bible. It has no bearing on others just as you are not bound by Ramayana or Khuran.As for Pope not protecting Jews, please understand, Pope's first concern is Catholics not Jews.But for fear of offending Jews the Catholic Church is abdicating that responsibilty these days

The Pope thinks that Christians (Catholics? Because Catholics and Portestans have never been friends) are having a hard time in Iraq because of the war. Does he know that before this war there was a bloody dictator in power, that killed muslim arabs, kurds, Christians, everybody? And that in many other countries (except Jewish Israel, of course, the land of Jesus / Yeoshua) bloody dictators are in power and they send to prision, torture and kill many of their own people (Arab Syria, Lybia, Sudan, Somalia...)

"Last time I checked the bible G-d gave the Land of Israel to Jewish people." You, the bible and G-d were sold out when the Jewish People's Council agreed to the boundaries recommended by UNGA Res 181

"are the bishops really that dumb.." = rich "i think these guys have never heard of infidels" = watching too many Western style movies..

The guy in the pointy hat has done it again hasn't he? Talks out of both sides of his mouth at the same time. That's what we need Mr. Pope, more distortion of the facts and using that great Islamic move of making up facts and blaming it on those you wish would just go away; well, just brilliant. You can't help it though, that's what you've been taught for the past 2,000 years.

Why do you israelis aways point fingers to other parts of the world. We know those areas of the world have problems. but it would seems people such as the first two commentors want to point fingers to those areas to divert attention away from the problems in their part of the middle east. My kids did this kind of tactic when they were five, they have grown out of such childish actions.

One of my best friends is a Christian Arab from Jaffa who lives with his family in a fundamentalist Muslim neighborhood. He has terrible trouble with his neighbors because of his faith and has been attacked for it, his whole family's lives are threatened and he is desperately trying to move them out. The Vatican is right about the symptom - ethnic cleansing of Christians - but wrong about the cause. My friend has no fear of Jews at all. It is Muslims who threaten and force him to find a way out. Ask all the Christian Arabs who have been forced from Bethlehem and Gaza too - they will tell you the same, a will the million Jews who were forced out of surrounding Muslim nations.

Christ was crucified he was from the line of David. Then his ancestor before him. Just because we worship different and follow his teachings does not mean you hate people.Some believe he is God others he is the gateway to God, then others a prophet, but why punish a Christian for their beliefs.Why would I punish a muslim for kneeling and praying 3 times a day.I have several friends who are muslim and follow strict Islam.Why punish all women for what a harlot does when you are a good woman who follows who Christ teachings or Mohammeds teachings? What does your nation call the one and only God not some man on the planet who thinks he is a God.For instance I cannot be seen or talk to a married man unless there is a chaperone while on duty for Israel. While at work where I am at( very shy) I usually dont talk to men. While in bookstore I have been known to shake a mans hand.I have walked in veil but what does my worship on Saturday evening or Sunday morning mean to you? Rankoo-Karoon

Even in Israel, in muslim palestinian areas,Christians are being persecuted and the numbers are dwindling as they have gradually had to move out! It is also a sad fact that now orthodox jews are also persecuting messianic jews, there have been some very serious incidents!

demanded Israel forbids it ,since the Mosque were to stand in front of the Church of Annunciacion. They weren't shy in involving Israel in their own spat with Muslims and they still blame Israel .

Funny, that the best place to be a Christian in the Middle East is in Israel. The Church is only protecting it's behind. Many Arab Christians have told me that persecution of Arab Jews was the beginning. Arab Muslims are only continuing the persecution now with Christians. Next they will go after themselves whether it be Sunni or Shia. It is the Arab culture not the conflict. Think about it, a Christian Arab has roots in an Arab country for a 1000 years. All of a sudden he is persecuted, and Vatican blames the Jews. Disappointing!

Last time I checked the bible G-d gave the Land of Israel to Jewish people."Daniel Who did he work for Daniel. Century 21 or Coldwell banker---hmm Daniel. Or maybe he is the ceo of some global real estate superstore and gave you guys a freebie. Get real --go take a walk down the El Camino Real. Might bring you to your senses

Only now the Vatican realizes that Islamic terror has uprooted catholics? How timely....

They need to start addressing the real problems and stop beating around the bush. In 1948, Christians made up almost 30% of Palestine, and today they went down to less than 2%, that is simply freightening and if the International Community and Christian church leaders worldwide don't accept the Palestinian Christian appeal and put pressure on Israel. There will be no Christian left where Jesus was born, crucified, and raised.

Maybe it is time for the vatican to release some of their huge accumulated funds to back up the christians in middle east and africa.

The Vatican The BBC News: 19 1.10, "At least 149 people have been killed during 2 days of violence,between Christian & Muslim gangs in the Nigerian city of Jos" In Iraq,the've exterminated almost all the Christians. They were there a long time. Right !? In Saudi Arabia No Christians, (except of course American workers etc.) No such thing like a permanent residence. Not like the Moslem/Arab hordes swarming all over Christian lands ! Sudan-Darfur: Hundreds of thousands Christians killed. In Bethlehem,in the Church of Nativity. The Arab P.L.O turned the 'holy place' into a Toilet ! Hardly a whimper by the Pope ! Bishops were caught sleeping with Choir boys in America,England etc. The Pope wisely hush,hushed the matter by paying Hundreds of Thousands $$'s so as not to bring the cases before the courts. Hey,You Vaticanchicks ! Remove the wool from your eyes. Since Israel's Independence the only place n the ME Christians have Total & complete freedom of worship is Israel

Conspicuously missing from the report - mention of Muslim terror perpetrated against Copts in Egypt,attacks on churches thoughout the Middle East,the outright murder of Christians in Nigeria... I think these guys need new hats.

Even IF Israel was not there Christians still would of been driven out of region by Muslim exrimists. It always been like that and always will be. At least in Israel Christians can feel safe and practice their religion without fear of being persecuted, harassed or killed. Vatican Popes who couldn't protect Jewish people from nazis should be the last ones claiming that Israel is perpetuating the conflict and that territories are occupied. Last time I checked the bible G-d gave the Land of Israel to Jewish people.

and persecution of christians in nigeria, pakistan, afghanistan, bangladesh, indonesia etc ...... i think these guys have never heard of infidels

Then how come Christians are leaving Iran? Iraq? Egypt? Syria? Jordan? Indonesia? etc., etc.? Has the pope visited a church in Saudi Arabia yet? Oh, I forgot - there is NONE!! Perhaps it has nothing to do with Israel after all. Maybe it just has to do with the absolute lack of tolerance in the Islamic world. One of these days the Vatican will learn that the earth is not flat.

The real reason for Christian flight from Arab lands - which has been going on for decades - is the vicious intolerance of radical Islamic regimes. Bethlehem used to be a Christian city, but the Islamic fanatics have made living there impossible. They're burning churches in Malasia, but let's blame it on the Palestinian-Israeli conflict.

the middle east. Christianity is dying force in the west. only in africa will it survive but as a totally different species. white christianity as we know it is dead. some fossils will survive such as evangelical christians but the rest will fall away. in england it already is virtually dead. nothing left in france. good bye and it wasn't good knowing you. althought you did some good in the world, but it did not out weight the bad.

It is time for the powerful christian countries to condition Middle east economical/military aide to the better treatment of christians in these contries. Also specific programs should be started to support the christians and prevent their migration form the holyland..

Well,here's a revelation.The Vatican thinks that the Muslims turn on the Christians because Israel defends itself from Arab aggression.Israel is even to blame for Iraqi Muslims turning on Iraqi Christians,yet there are no Jews in Iraq. Hang on a moment!!!Isn't this the same as Tony Blair who says that Israel is the cause of all the troubles in the Middle East,even Iraq?No wonder that he converted to Roman Catholicism. THREE CHEERS FOR ISRAEL!!!

Muslim fanatics like Hamas are driving Christians out. If it were for Israel, it would prefer Christians as neighbours than Muslim fanatics bent on destroying Israel,

Quote from the Haaretz article : "The meeting document made clear that bishops in the Middle East believe the Israeli-Palestinian conflict to be the root cause of several conflicts in the region. But it also singled out the growth of political Islam in countries like Egypt, and said the decades-old Israeli-Palestinian conflict had been exploited by radical terrorism in recent years." The Israeli-Palestinian conflict as a reason is only mentioned so as not to antagonise the Islamists in the M.E. The key words are "exploited by radical terrorism". They could add but cannot (although they might think it) ,the same danger is slowly making its presence in Europe, North America and anywhere else in the world. History is full of examples of late, very late realisation of the true dangers.