UNIFIL confirms Israel's version: IDF troops didn't enter Lebanon

I am (as always) dismayed by the content of discourse on these postings. It's always mine's bigger than yours or I'm better than you. Until we take the focus off ourselves and look toward God we will never recieve his blessings. May God bless Lebanon, Israel, Syria, Iran, U.S, U.K., and all the other countries. And may God bless you all.

after all that is a much more substantial "fence"

When I put my backyard fence 6 inches on my side of the property line, my neighbour will put his sod all the way to the fence, including the 6 inches I gave away. And I will not sneak into his yard, and walk along the 6 inches, which I left on the other side of the fence. Israel, to continue claiming that the border in North of the fence, is being juvenile. The fence is the border. Israel should and can put thousands of tanks South of the fence, but they should never climb over it. It is basic common sense.

if you are so interested about prostitution will turn lebanon to an islamic repblic .may aim is the destrtuction of the IDF nothing more nothing else i don't deal with public matters .your country is a heaven fordrugs smuggling mr shlomo ..what do you call flasha jews from ethiopia you treat as dogs in your society which is extremly divided or what about arab israelis ??someone like you will be a nice prisoners of war

Boycott, as of 18 hours after the incident the tape of the kidnapping was already in the hands of the UN. There was a second tape of the vehicles and a third tape, contents unspecified. It was only after negotiations lasting months that the UN allowed Israel to view the first tape three times and then under conditions that they controlled. This is NOT friendly behaviour Boycott.

Israel would consider it beneath her to ally herself with a disgusting country like Lebanon that deals in human flesh, selling white slaves, dealing in selling women into prostitution. Lebanon is the central clearing point for drugs of all descriptions. Of course you know about sharmutas Samir, because you deal in them. You people are scary: not because you're stronger than we are, but because you have no moral background to guide you.

How much your country is willing to pay for intel ??

I assumed if you fired 4,000 rockets with 10,000 troops in the vincinity that you were bound to hit one group by accident. Are you know saying that 1 in 4,000 is the hit rate you achieve when you ARE AIMING? And you are BOASTING about this? What next, boasting about how you anti-tank missiles weren't able to penetrate Merkevas or how you couldn't shoot down Apaches? Maybe about how you can only hit Israel ships if they switch off their counter-measures?

israel created many many units for hizbollah to end up been kill in matter of hours ,there is not one inch of south lebanon we can't move and if you want to know all rockets stock is full and brand new equipment was installed just few feets from the french unit i won't say where ..you can't teach lebanese how to defend themself ...do you know why these soldiers in kfar giladi were killed ..they used their mobile phone for long period of time ...don't forget we have access to the same techonology ..ya ibn el sharmouta vittorio

Green balloons making people sick--not the first advertising stunt to be misinterpreted--ever heard of psychosomatic illness?

If Siniora weren't such a chicken, he'd ally himself to Israel and both would sweep Hizbollah off the map and put Iran's plans in shambles, and make the Lebannon a respected Middle East player. The opportunity is there staring him in the face. If Olmert is bad, what can we say about Siniora.

And just what are you going to entitle this textbook you are writing on how to blame America for everything? I suggest "Garbage!"

They did not cross the border---open your eyes and your ears----

"Everyone picks on us muslims but we haven't done anything--WOW--then 9/11, the bombing of the Cole, the earlier attack on the world trade center, etc --never happened? Muslims haven't done anything? Then why does it turn out that when an incident of terror happens, guess who is behind it???

That many bomblets, huh? Every time one of you starts talking about these, the number grows! Tell me--is there a spot anywhere that the actual soil of the land is visible under your great numbers??

The problem is not weakness in the IDF--the problem is the hamstringing they've had from their airheaded leaders--Olmert lives in fantasy land. As I suggested to another idiot--go live in Sderot for awhile and get your eyes opened!

Dear Sinalco: If you are so strong, why don't you all rise up and show Hisbollah what you are, and get rid of them instead of waiting for someone else to do it? Hope you'll enjoy living under Sharia law!

As usual, Clickfool wouldn't recognize the truth if it was paraded right past his nose. He's too busy spewing hatred for Israel. I suggest he go and live in Sderot for awhile!

Because, the point is not who he quotes. His point is he doesn't like Hezbollah either. You are very articulate and write well, but comprehend very little. So, read my post again and try to comprehend what it really said. BTW, I know you aren't puzzled over anything. Just too nationalistic.

Exactly right! Today Lebanese Gov confiscated a truck full of weapons including rocket launchers. Hezbollah demands the return but Lebanon won't turn them over. Article in Ya Libnan.

I guess today changed all the threats you make on this board. Not a good day for Hezbollah. guess you won't be getting those rocket launchers after all. LMAO!!!!

... regarding Noam Chomsky? Have you meant to sent your post to someone else and by error you entered my name? I am truly puzzled.

You already FAILED the test on what you claim to be doing (Conflict Resolution) by saying: I have no hatred of Jews although I do not like their foreign policy FOREIGN POLICY OF JEWS? IMAGINE ME SAYING I have no hatred of MOSLEMS (CHRISTIANS) although I do not like their foreign policy?

it seems you do not know your own country's history. your forefathers were not muslims.... they were hindus .... islam in your country is just new. when the muslems got to your country ... they converted most of your ansestors .... those who refused got killed, they also erased most of the evidence of the hindu faith in your country ....

So the Lebanese army fires a couple of harmful rounds! The point is not whether the IDF crossed the border or not. The point is, those shots are aimed at removing the Hez argument that the Lebanese army is incapable of defending Lebanon.This whole thing will weaken the Hez and Israel knows this, trust me!

www.yalibnan.com. You really need to read this. No land grabs, no confrontations, no war is necessary. Article about Hezbollah and rearming. Lebanese are confronting them and confiscating truck loads of weapons. Refusing to hand them over. Things are not always what they seem.

If I were you, I would be grateful to the Lebanese Gov today. A truck full of Rockets and Launchers was confiscated by Lebanese soldiers headed for Hezbollah. the Gov refuses to return them to Hezbollah even though the demands are clear. I also might add the Lebanese Gov is investigating Palestinians who may be set to attack troops on your border. UNIFIL troops to be exact. Probably to blame Israel and start another conflict between countries and in the UN. Grow up a little and stop being so self centered. They are in the same damned boat as you are.

Lebanese Gov is refusing to give Hezbollah a truck full of weapons, rocket launchers, etc;, that they are demanding. Palestinians in Lebanon threatening to attack UNIFIL. Lebanese Gov is investigating claims this will happen. Rumors of attacks on Lebanon by Al Qaeda. Read it in Ya Libnan. Israelis need to understand, Lebanon is in the same boat as you are.

So now you have two enemies in southern Lebanon. Hezbollah, of course, and the Lebanese Army, which seems to no longer fear the IDF as it did before. More evidence of what a well-conceived and successful operation this most recent attack on Lebanon was. Yay for Israel.

... just like HEZBALLAH-NASRALLAH. Do honest Lebanese need such scoundrels-terrorists as Samir Salameh? - Throw them out, Lebanese!!!!! They are a disaster of your country.

I reproduce his message: "...How could Unifil back up the zionist entity with this story? Easy. Unifil is lying. The Jews crossed the border and have bribed Unifil officials to say they didn`t do it...." Just think: Archie Bunker wasn't there, UNIFIL people were, but Archie Bunker pretends that he knows what happened (BRIBARY!). Archie Bunker even doesn't use the word "Israelis", just "Jews". Now I tell: JEWS, BE BRAVE AMD VIGILANT! Such JEW-HATERS and ISRAEL-BASHERS as Archie Bunker are your enemies. Don't try to appease them. JEWS, BE STRONG AND FIRM. TIME OF STRONG ISRAELI LEADERS WILL RETURN. TERRORISTS WILL TREMBLE AS THEY TREMBLED BEFORE. IDF and IAF DHOULD ACT DECISIVELY AND EFFECTIVELY. Buona Fortuna cari ragazzi. Sono con voi. Saluti. Vittorio.

I get it and I think that it's funny, Jim, but I fear that irony is lost on some of the slower witted and that you may henceforth be targeted as an anti-semite!

http://www.un.org/News/dh/latest/videorpt.htm Above is the UN report. Paras relevant to your belief that the faces of the abductors or the guilty soldiers were blacked out: 74. Subsequently, the United Nations announced that a videotape had been made eighteen hours after the abduction. It offered to show it to the Israeli and Lebanese authorities with the faces of the non-United Nations personnel obscured. 89. No videotape or photograph of the abduction itself is in the United Nation's possession.

If you note I didnt make any comment on whether I believe it or not, I posted part of an article that I cited several times. I have read all the posts regarding it and would have hoped that if it was such nonsense someone could refer me to the site that disputed it. The main problem I find with this forum is that some posters are so aggressive and rude they dont respond with further info just call you names. My main concern is that peace in the ME seems further away than ever and people are becoming more and more rigid in their views. I do a lot of conflict resolution in my work and usually find that if both parties stop believing they hold the truth 100% they can begin to build bridges based on trust. I have no hatred of Jews although I do not like their foreign policy but in UK we were always allowed our opinions if it doesnt hurt someone else. Glad you like the UK although it seems less stable daily.

Clearly we have had different experiences - I have no understanding why you think I should want your detruction? I think that diplomacy versus aggression (on all sides) is the answer. I do not believe that Israels response to Hezbollah was proportional and many friends of mine who were supporters of the March 14th movement were distraught at the level of violence and destruction carried out by the Israeli's. There is a HUGE difference in disagreeing in a country's foreign policy and wiping out a people. I disagree hugely with Tony Blair/George Bush on their policy at the moment but hold no animosity towards all americans or Brits

.... "moderate" perception of us, Israelis. Very, very telling......!!!

A so-called "security" barrier is built, and then the land between this barrier and an internationally border is somehow absorbed by the creation of "facts on the ground". Then, the owners of this land are shot at, by military and paramilitary armed forces (who have also mined the area), when they try to enter their own areas. The Lebanese clearly need to be brought before the World Court and told to stop this blatent land-grab.

Responsibility: First it is Al Qaida, then Iran, then Syria, then Hezbolah, then the CIA. FOOLS! ONE AND ALL! Can't you see the truth? This scenario was put together in 1914 by the Learned Elders of Zion and carefully designed to come to fruition TODAY! You are all their tools, and you are all FOOLS! Read the Protocols if you want the truth! Enshallah!

did u also sell bits & pieces of shahid headbands ? There must be many of them in and around Shiite neighbourhoods in Liban.

Mollio hello, OK so I jumped into conclusion about certain things and no not always things carry photographic evidance. I believe that in this day and age it is very likely that these attacks (I doubt they ever happen) will be acompanied by evidence of some sort. I haven't seen them. You believe it, I don't. Can we agree on this one? BTW Itsik is the Israeli nick name for Yitzchak. I am Israeli married to a French lady and leaving in GB as she didn't want to stay in Israel and I don't speak French. I find UK much calmer, rational and sensible.

Problems with reading comprehension? Not read the article? 1)The fence belongs to Israel, 2)It's located to the south of the intl. border, 3)The area between the fence and the Blue Line is Israeli soil, not no-man's-land, 4)Comprende? Capito? Verstanden? Understood? OK, case closed.

no retraction !! what does the unfinul want, with their troops on our border ? what does she want wifh leclerc tanks? we wouln'd give excuse from the defence an our country , mr the politicians! we need an other & strong governement ..

Ovadiah, i understand your santiments but it's really rather sad that funny. It's sad for those Lebanise who are stupid or brainwashed. They live their lifes in shit and die in shit. And if they die they own mothers writes them off to shahids, simple like that. Life of no value and the same death. I don't know what we can do about it, really.

Dan Halutz is still heading the staff: "Peretz's comments came after a special security consulatations on the situation in the north. Meeting with IDF Chief of Staff Dan Halutz and senior military officials, Peretz said that the "Northern Command operated according to regulations and in the necessary and correct manner, in keeping with UN Security Council Resolution 1701."

Israel may admit overflying the Lebanon but it is not sneaking weapons into the area. On the other hand Hezbollah never admits to anything unless it is the killing of an Israeli or Jew whether the person killed be soldier, adult or child and these they take a great deal of pride in. Which is better? Admitting what is done or hiding anything that might be judged detrimentally?

if you were brave you would have put your real name with UR oppinion. so i guess ur the one who is the chicken.........

abraham, i want to ask u, why all this hate toward lebanon and hisbollah? do you really believe that they are savages who deserve to die suffering? you need to open your mind to new solutions and stay away from violence. IDF cant take away all of lebanon because its simply immoral. i advise you to change your attidude so there would be a chance for a better life around the world.

WE lost the war agianst hezbollah and we will never be able to beat them bc we r chickens!!!! we can only fight by air and new tech..but if we did fight like hezbollah we definatly would loose again and again and again..but we will always win in killing innocent people!

He doesn't deserve to be allowed to have his views heard here. This is what he thinks of Israelis. "So any Israeli solider in range of any Lebanese gun ought to be put out of his misery with a bullet to the brain -- it is legally just, morally straight, and a patriotic duty, for them as for the Palestinians, Syria (which is partly occuppied), Iran (openly threatened by Israel), and the Palestinian citizens of Israel (denied equality and deprived of land)." I'm surprised that the team in the asylum permit him to touch the computer. He might eat it, or put it out of its misery.

Why build a case based on circumstantial evidence when you have clear eye witness statements before you? It's clear that you are a prosecutor against Israel. But you should chose your fights more cleverly. This is one you've lost.

what actually happened (maybe) but I just hope that it doesn't lead to more serious interaction.

Clickfool, you remind me of a one-eyed football supporter who watches one of his team's players intentionally kick the other team's player in the teeth, and then go about telling everyone about what an unfortunate accident the matter was. There is no hope for objectivity for people like you. And there are too many of you. The shame is that what happens here is far more important than a football match, and because of the total and continuing blindness of the pro-Arab political and media establishments, nothing in the Middle East has a chance of being resolved in a civilized manner.

you can say i am extremly involved against your country in a military point ..and i had my share if you want to know of your army ,i was trained hamdoulillah in iran for at least six months do you want my picture and address or may be you can come to beirut i will prove you my manhood

Quoting Noam Chomsky is not the way to make friends with Israelis. Whatever he says is deliberately to our detriment Walid. So if you quote something by him please be aware that it will be ignored.

The answer is your question of why the Lebanese would fire on Israel which is 1000 times stronger, which now the U.N., confirmed is true, is the best answer of the following multiple choice: (a) stupidity. (b) hatred. (c) Hezbollah made them do it. (d) The need to deflect attention from the Harrari affair. (e) Iran made them do it. Its too bad that you folks in Indonesia don't open your eyes to reality. The Muslims conquered you by force, forced conversions and now your memories and judgment has failed you. Cest la vie.

when you open your mouth think , we are already in australia .you can say ears and eyes in beirut for you word people you know the rest.

The most insight I've seen from you is your self proclaimed name. The answer to your question of whether Israel should be cleaning up the cluster bombs is no. The Lebanese should be grateful that Israel restrained itself and they are able to do that themselves. Those who invite misery must clean it up. Caught in yet another lie, those Lebanese, eh Clickfool. Bet you enjoyed that.

You may consider that the Indian UN soldiers acted independently but the video they took was in the hands of the UN for months and we were only granted possession of it after much delay and even then the faces were made unidentifiable by the UN itself. It was all indicative of the fact of a general attitude of the UN that I sense in you, that Israel is inevitably in the wrong.

everything you said by return mail. With the added weight of the Islamo fascist Hamas charter excluding negotiations. I am sure you have seen the vitriolic Al Manar the voice of Hisbula.Does that sound like an outreach for peace and good relations? Now despite all the denials of their PC apologists they are re-arming.

UNIFIL patrolled the area around Israel's and Lebanon's shared border, photographed the site, and concluded that IDF troops operated entirely within Israeli territory." ....Israel,accept it that you are wrong.This time and most of the time. Stop living in denial. Aren't you Israel basher ashame of yourself! Especially to Indra the guy without any brain who was so quick with his posting " ALWAYS ISRAEL THE FIRST" . Indra go taKE CARE of your problem at home,did you you see your countrymen on TV ,begging on the roadside. Have a heart for your people and do something for them. Israel and Arab problem is out of your league just leave it to the big boys!

"Questions: Is UNIFIL only authorised to observe and report? Why did they not report the existence of these, according to Israel, newly placed explosives? Why did UNIFIL not destroy them?"etc.,etc. Well, laddy, you of course know the answers, but there's non like hates his own. UNIFIL can observe, report, and take military defensive action, or offensive if it meets with armed resistance to its mandate. Which does NOT include looking for IEDs (which are different from "cluster bomblets"-see you didn't need Mark Lincoln after all!). Glad we didn't have ye with us during the Troubles. Ye would have turned on yer own for sure, more's the shame. Some people can't stand their own skin. Tis a pity.

....to say the very least with the concepts that you claim to be valuable and about which you wrote in this post, as you know. I wonder if he also by now would accept these concepts, or at least, as Hamas might do, at least honor them.

oh wow! unifil agrees with us. please remember that sooner or later they will blame us. we must do what me must. the jew haters cannot dictate to us!!!

a complaint to the UN Security Council about this flare-up. Any guesses why, I ask those who keep blaming Israel for this and any other development along Israel's borders and the disputed territories?

How could Unifil back up the zionist entity with this story? Easy. Unifil is lying. The Jews crossed the border and have bribed Unifil officials to say they didn't do it.

Crying is the only business of Siniora.

Robert your severely misguided. You are an ingrate. From your extremely inappropriate comments which I can't bear to repeat, I see you can't possibly appreciate the freedom and democracy we live in. As an American I am ashamed of you. You are what's wrong with America today. It is people like you who may quit possibly cause our demise in the war on terror. Maybe if you would have been in NYC on 9/11 you would have an inkling of what we and our ally Israel face. Keep on drinking that kool aid it seems to be doing you really well.

Siniora should thanks Israel by this violation, because his domestic political problems being lifted for the moment. THIS IS ISRAEL'S SPECIAL GIFT FOR AN ALLY.

A state of war has existed between Israel and Lebanon since 1948. Ceasefires have been signed, but no peace agreement was ever reached in the 60 odd years since then. In fact the Lebanese government has stated that it will be the 'last nation' to sign a peace treaty with Israel. Given that Lebanon refuses to control Hizballah, and Hizballah has declared that it plans to destroy Israel someday, than yes, the IDF has both the right and responsiblity to scout out the goings on of Hizballah's rearmament, which, by any definition, is also an act of war. The fact that Israeli planes conduct intelliegnce survailance flights by no means though makes true your argument that IDF ground troops crossed the border to destroy these bombs. Similar intelligence flights took place by both the US and USSR during the cold war, and indeed, one could hardly state that there were imminent invasions of ground forces during those years of the home nations.

Thank you for your comments. I'll make sure to post more often. I think its important to give another Arab perspective and to give voice to those who want to see a peaceful Middle East where people can co-exist safely and learn from each other, democratize their societies and respect human rights of all.

It seems the censor chose to suppress my observation that UNIFIL's conclusion would annoy those who hate UNIFIL. Why? UNIFIL might have been deficient in recent months in not shooting down Israeli aircraft flagrantly violating Lebanese airspace. UNIFIL might have been negligent in not shooting down Israeli aircraft mounting attack profiles against UNIFIL forces. But, when UNIFIL fulfills it's primary job of observing the situation along the border and issues a ruling supporting Israel, I am censored for observing that such performance would annoy those who insist UNIFIL is part of the Vast Arab Conspiracy to exterminate Israel. Why Mr. Haaretz Censor - or yes, you Mr. Bradley Burston - tell me why an observation that UNIFIL's opponents were wrong was worthy of censorship?

Mossad or the CIA should "cross the border" again, covertly. Then they should plant a nice big car bomb that wipes Hassan Nasrallah off the face of the earth...just like Israel did to Ali Hassan Salameh back in 1979.

In Lebanon, there were IDF forces operating, and the Lebanese and the so called international community wailing for Israel to withdraw.

hey nitwit - Israel and Lebanon are officially in a state of war. They are been for decades. Lebanon has failed to abide by security council resolutions to disarm Hezbollah so they both are in violation -and they both will continue to probe and test each other.

Mr. Mollio, I was in Lebanon for two weeks last January and had an opportunity to meet Lebanese from all faiths and all socio-economic strata of society. Every youth that i met were unanimous in their condemnation of Hizbollah, and were eager to leave Lebanon due to its lack of employment opportunities and ability to improve teir quality of life. None of them voiced emnity towards Israel and, in fact were hoping that an Israeli incursion would diminish Hizbollah's sphere of influence. Let me make it clear that i have to personal animosity to you and believe that every human being is entitled to their reasoned opinion. My philosophy in life is live and let live...but should you wish to annihilate either myself or my people all bets are off. This is not the credo of Hizbollah or Hamas who are hell-bent on destruction and elimination of the State of Israel..This is not possible and should you believe that it is, you are engaging in a delusional belief structure.My weapons are words..

, without provocation, You would not compare them to stones or rocks.

Since 1948. Does anyone know?

Suggest that lebanese get together and protest the presence of UNIFIL, since the presence of these Europeans under UN flag is obviously an Bush/Olmert plot to undermine lebanese sovereignity. Fortunately, lebanese sovereignity is such a joke that even these reps of the Useless Nonentities organization are a threat to it.

. . . on a daily basis, with aircraft. This is an act of war, plain and simple, as well as a violation of the cease-fire. Two things follow from this: 1) Israel routinely violates Lebanon's borders, so there is no reason, a priori, to think they didn't in this case. 2) Whether they did or not, they admit to regular violations, each of which is an act of war. So any Israeli solider in range of any Lebanese gun ought to be put out of his misery with a bullet to the brain -- it is legally just, morally straight, and a patriotic duty, for them as for the Palestinians, Syria (which is partly occuppied), Iran (openly threatened by Israel), and the Palestinian citizens of Israel (denied equality and deprived of land). Good luck to the home team -- many hands make light work. ;)

Who got his virgins and booze reward. Wonder if it runs in the family.?

Factually, you are perfectly correct, but I will quibble with your interpretation of why.. "no official renunciation of Syria`s claim to the Shebaa Farms in favor of Lebanon has ever been received" If Syria has plans on all of Lebanon then it really doesn't matter if gives this bit away, coz it'll hope to get it all back anyway. I think the reason is much more practical - by saying "unofficially" that it is in sympathy with Lebanon's claim then it keeps the pressure on Israel; Hezbollah can claim justification for fighting, but Israel can't remove that justification by giving up Shaaba to Lebanon since it's not "officially" Lebanese territory. But Israel also can't put the teeth on this by simply give it back to Syria because, frankly, what about all the *other* Syrian territory in between Shebaa and the ceasefire line? It's an elegent bit of realpolitik, because while Israel wants to keep the Golan all it can do is hunker down and take the heat.

Compulsive distortions and half truths.

Your reply to the Pssd Off American was ill-informed at best. What do you mean by "No, it doesn`t seem the Lebanese should risk confrontation, but why expect them to act rational?These are the same people who allow a terrorist group to attack Israel on whims." Your categorizing the Lebanese as irrational is measured up next to exactly what rationality? Secondly, the Lebanese know that if it weren't for Hezbollah, their sovreignty would be a joke of a word. Thirdly, there are literally a handful of countries that recognize Hezbollah as a terrorist group - LITERALLY, look it up! EVEN the EU doesn't consider them terrotist. They are considered a resistance group by the REST of the world which came to existance in response to a certain occupation of THEIR land.

a victory.and yes ,it is funny how pathetic they look when they do.

thank you. as much as i and the rest of the people on this forum disagree on so many things, i like to see that among the Ovadias, Davids, Lavis, Itsiks, Yonatans and others there are some Imads, Assads, Marwans, Clickfools, Northern Neighbours and Lebanese. Its what we as individuals can do in such a helpless situation where we fantacise that we make a difference in such discussion, whilst our leaders take away any real hope there is in reality. Sadly, thats all this is. Fantacy. so, to you i say until the next fantacy, Shalom Aleichem/Salam Aleikum

While I agree wholeheartedly with your characterization of Israel in general, you may have picked the wrong battle to fight here. I don't think Israel did anything particularly wrong this time. AT MOST this may be another example of the 'Temple Mount repair' strategy -- carrying out a perfectly legimate action in such a manner as to provoke an Arab response. In other words, the IDF may have wanted to give the Lebanese the impression they had crossed to the wrong side of the border. That's at most. Relax. Israel will do something genuinely outrageous in the next week or so. She usually does.

George: ok whatever. northern neighbour: you are the most funny one here.

I am a Jew of Lebanese origin. Mother is Jewish and father is Muslim. Both of Lebanese origin. I have been to Lebanon though. My name isnt clearly Jewish as i take my fathers name and my first name isnt obviously Jewish. I am a practicing Muslim, but i know my roots lie within Bani Isra'il (Bnei Yisrael). But i have to say, that people in Lebanon know my mother is Jewish, and they know i am Jewish, and we came out quite alive. hope that clears it up.

what a dumb post...."your" infidel status as christians is as permanent as ours, same boat big boy.

try being pissed off with yr so called european allies who spend their time criticising and peeing on usa.....total ingratiates

Thanks. I see the quote you mention. Apparently there was coordination with UNIFIL and Lebanon so my point is moot. Israel has the duty to take care of its territory. Unless a tank or helicopter actually crossed the border, there was no justification for the Lebanese shot. (Too bad, but overflights continue on a regular basis and if a helicopter was "covering" the area with the tanks, that could have been misinterpreted.)

Howdy Walid; Although currently occupied by Israel, the Shebaa Farms area remains disputed territory between Lebanon and Syria. The UN, the U.S., and Israel consider the area to be Israeli-occupied Syria, but Lebanon considers it to be Israeli-occupied Lebanon. Unfortunately, no official renunciation of Syria's claim to the Shebaa Farms in favor of Lebanon has ever been received which is probably due to the fact that Syria considers all of Lebanon to be part of Syria anyway. In order to resolve the dispute, the governments of Lebanon and Syria will have to work it out twixt themselves. Israel as the occupying power has nothing to with the issue. That is essentially what Bush told Siniora six months ago. Look to Damascus and not to Washington or Jerusalem to solve the problem.

Sorry, Chanah. There was history prior to 1947. You should do some research on it.

The day the Mexicans start putting mines right next to the US security fence, and within US territory, you may understand the need of clearing them. So why do the Lebanese have to start shooting at a single, non-shooting, patrolling tank, within Israeli border? Do you understand this?

Walid, your earlier post was about how in the past how all Israeli soldiers had to do was operate on their own soil and this would "somehow" "provoke" Hezbollah into firing upon them. Which doesn't speak well for their rationality. I sincerely hope the Lebanese army is wiser. Hopefully it's just a mistake as you say. Either way, it's not a provocation for Israeli soldiers to remove bombs from their side of the border.

"it doesn`t seem worth the risk of confrontation, does " No, it doesn't seem the Lebanese should risk confrontation, but why expect them to act rational? These are the same people who allow a terrorist group to attack Israel on whims.

just how long are you going to remain pssd off?we are bored already.

If we'd taken this robust a response since 2000, we probably wouldn't have had a war in 2006.

you managed to destroy exactly four.... Congrats, that's twice as many that were destroyed in accidents during the same period of time.

My ego is not flimsy because I expect any discourse to be based on respect (which name calling is not). The strength of ego-strength is the power, determination, road ability to engage reality for whatever we find it to be. I am neither deaf, blind nor dumb to the challenges the Lebanese face, nor indeed do I believe that Israel is the only reason the country suffers – that does not however excuse the behaviour of Israel towards Lebanon which is well documented and contravenes international law. If you do not wish to discuss further due to my apparent inability to debate to your standard then please feel free to stop posting directly to me.

You're very enthusiastic, hiding away in Reading. Just to let you know, Lebanese troops started the incident, so say's UNIFIL. I think I'll just sit back and wait for another Lebanese Civil war to start up, and it will.

his fools started the incident. Unifil acknowledges the fracas wasn't Israels fault. Saniora should be concerned with Hezbollah, they're the ones that want to oust him

If you could see the Maps of Palestine from different time you will notice, the difference what was offered to Jews/Palestinians in 1948., and that are still under occupation, that's why there will be a triparty talk soon to discuss occupation.(accepted by Mr Sharon too). I still cannot understand why so few still cannot swallow this PILL.?? The only war that the Arab(Egyptians)initiated from their own side was the Yom kipur war, the rests of them were NOT won from defencive WARS but PRE EMPTIVE WARS.

This will piss off the UNIFIL haters.

mustard to enhance the flavor of the crow you sre trying to digest?

I can empathize with Walid and have no problem. Your type of empathy helps no one and keeps them thinking they are always a victim. Grow up.

That the ARABS refused to accept Partition of their land, and refused 50% of it.You would do the same if someone come intoYOUR house today and said "HALF OF THIS IS MINE" On the other hand if ALL Palestinians lands was for the JEWS, why then they did not ask for the whole Palestine from the League of Nations or refuse to accept the 50%, in the same manner?? I also sure that it was BALFOUR who accepted to create a Homeland in Palestine, for the unfortunate Jews after the HORRIBLE HOLOCAUST. One QUESTION Chanah" WHAT WOULD HAVE HAPPEN IF THE PALESTINIANS ACCEPTED THE 1948 PARTITION,?? Does this mean that You would have settle for the 50%? NOTHING DISPUTED???

So how long were you in Lebanon? Did you have an opportunity to meet with Lebanese from all backgrounds and faiths?

Jack has indeed decided where Israel's borders are - somewhere smack in the middle of the Mediterranean Sea.

Thanks. I see the quote you mention. Apparently there was coordination with UNIFIL and Lebanon so my point is moot. Israel has the duty to take care of its territory. Unless a tank or helicopter actually crossed the border, there was no justification for the Lebanese shot. (Too bad, but overflights continue on a regular basis and if a helicopter was "covering" the area with the tanks, that could have been misinterpreted.)

First, one should ask why the bridge is being built. It?s all about isolation you idiot. But then how could you be blamed, you are from Toronto after all?..

A prayer for us all...Dear G/d, please help us, for the lunatics have taken over the assylum..

myxamatosis Walid and the majority of them were indeed lucky as Beirut was untouched by the IDF and IAF. Left in tact,and if you remember soon after ceasefire,they were all here free and easy putting their responses at ease and comfort. I remember making commenting about it to them and not a peep in response.Their ability to come here and pursue in debates,knowing factually that part of the country was left in tact by our arm forces. It must be a fact (at least)most probably, that he never even handled a gun,or participated in any battle.That is why they heve been unable to dispose of Nasrallah.No motivation and no guts.Their army being quite useless in the main from sheer government negligence and dependence on others. Of course we know who those were/are. They will sooner than later wake up...

The Lebanese government should have disarmed hizbollah many years ago. Again Resolution 1701 demanded Hizbollah should be disarmed. As soon as it was passed, Hizbollah said they wouldn?t give up weapons, and the Lebanese president said he wouldn?t do it because Hizbollah was part of the Lebanese government. Besides, have the kidnapped Israelis been released? No. And now those mines are found in Israel?s soil. Who planted them?

Are you pssd off all the time or is your condition permanent? Either way it corroded your faculties. So you certainly would not clear off mines in proximity to your home. By the way, try some cold Holy water from Israel to cool your pipes.

Mollio, You couldn't debate your way out of a wet paper bag...i have a very low threshhold for nonsense and ignorance and you have, through your drivel disclosed yourself to be exactly what i have written...if the shoe fits, wear it. If you lived in Lebanon,,you would have to be deaf, dumb and blind to believe that Israel is the problem..I apologze if i offended your flimsy ego...but i say what i mean, and mean what i say...always..without resorting to vulgarity.

You are pretty condescending yourself in your posts. You are obviously a Hizbollah supporter. Says a lot about you. Stop pretending to be what you're not and vice versa. If you can honestly believe tht story about the balloons and the hysteria it caused (and the fuss that was made) then we probably have no more to discuss.

I will ask you what I asked another poster with the same kind of inane comments - how old are you? Almost 15?

UN should just butt out and let Lebanonand Israel work it out. They say Syria owns it, Syria says Lebanon owns it. Israel is the pickle in the middle so to speak.

Sho youknow for sure..... who told you for sure. You should get better and more reliable teachers. If Jordan was part of Palestine, then how can Israel now own 78% of Palestine. You don't have to be a rocket scientist - all you have to do is LOOK at a MAP of the original Palestine and see how much of that is today Israel!!! The territories Israel has over and aboe the partition map are areas won in defensive wars against invading Arab armies who rejected the 1848 partitian plan and who attacked Israel in 1967, despite the fact that Israel beseeched jordan not to enter its war with Egypt. So, wat else do you know for sure??

My goodness - what thought you put into your response. I would not expect you to be able to empathise with their situation as it takes a certain amount of emotional maturity.

Hey Mollio,,Did u go into hiding, my fine, feathered friend? Let's spar a few more rounds and maybe you will realize that you are severely outmatched...Hizbollah rules Lebanon through fear and intimidation and when that doesn't produce the desired results, you go missing in the Bermuda Triangle of the Middle East. The ordinary Lebanese are wonderful, hospitable people,,but they re infested by an inoperable form of cancer, whether u realize it or not.

Actually I lived in Baabda for a year whilst setting up offices - and had business there for 3 years. Yes I have been to Byblos, Sidon, Tyre in addition to most of the the other major cities and towns there. I think on a personal note that resorting to name calling reflects on your inability to debate in a constructive way.

What, exactly, is the point of crossing the border fence to clear mines in the 18 meters between the fence and the "Blue Line"? Is the Blue Line even visibly marked? If you are really interested in keeping the peace, it doesn't seem worth the risk of confrontation, does it? Where the hell is UNIFIL even deployed? Wouldn't in make sense to deploy UNIFIL along the border, so as to physically separate the two forces?

"The Green line in Israel IS disputed, and is called for by the UN resolutions to be drawn based on negociations. No where does it call for a return to the Green Line, specifically" In 1947 Israel was created on 49% of Palestine. Most of us know that Israeli Governments ALWAYS find excuses for N O T NEGOCIATING with the palestinians. there have been a 1001 excuses, which are still being used as more settlements are being build and extending, and each time there is a window of opportunity, ther is Provocation, killings on both sides.Now is the time to wait for the next US ADMINISTRATION to be Elected, because Pres.GWB's time has expired,as he is of no use to anyone anymore. . NOT TRUE?

Guess yours is a predictable response. You forget to mention the occupation and collective punishments meted out to Palestinians and Lebanese. If the peace process is not approached with wisdom, diplomacy and compassion then none of us will have much to laugh at in the future.

I'd say thats an act of an agressor and an act of war, occupying sovereign Israel. What a shame the Arab world struggles against peace and prosperity so much.

LEBANANA REPUBLIC! What sovereignt? Your are abana republic. You belong to Syria and Iran. There is no more a Labanon entity but a LEBANANA REPUBLIC. A bon entendeur salut Monsieur Siniora.

I did respond. It just wasn't posted. I appreciated your answer and hope that we can speak again. If there is another Lebanese paper, I would like to read it. The slant is not the important thing to me. Learning is.

Saniora should be a man for once and apologize for the stupidity of shooting at Israeli soldiers acting within their own territory. If only the trigger-happy soldiers of my Lebanon knew how to shoot when it came to the thugs of Hezbollah. And of course, UNIFIL is to blame too, since they should be proactive in ensuring a quiet border, rather than seeking retroactive "investigations" with an eye to blaming the Israelis.

How bizarre. Israel is removing bombs Hezbollah illegally planted in Sovereign Israel. Israel comes under fire by Lebanese soldiers, again in sovereign Israel. Israel fires back. You hate Israel, when Hezbollah and Lebanese military are the agressors and enter sovereign Israel, yet Israel doesnt go into Lebanon. Please explain. Its pretty clear Hezbollah and Lebanon are to blame here.

I'm not a Hillary fan either. :) And a big no to Barak Obama. Biden is a racist whether he apologizes or not. I would prefer an honest statesman over an idealist any day. Preferably one with some diplomatic experience. It isn't going to be easy for us.

Having worked extensively throughout the ME I have met many highly educated muslim women (some who choose to cover and some who do not). I have also met with their family members (fathers, husbands etc) who support their studies. Hamas is very different from Al Qaeda & Taliban regarding their attitude towards women. They pay attention to women's affairs & their education. I agree with you that there are significant social and economic obstacles for women in strong patriarchal states however my belief is that dialogue enhances understanding and whenever possible concentrate on what we can agree on as opposed to how we differ. Regarding my faith, I have had very many interesting conversatiions with muslims about the differences and similarities within our faiths. I would not be able to find agreement with extremists of any religion. Peace in the ME is something that should be pursued without villifying of certain groups unfairly (which the western media does).

I am happy to hear you found a trade. Enshallah in shoof el salaam. Allah maak ya akhi.

First Jack claimed that the Jews must retreat from Judea, Samaria and Gaza to the artificial armistice lines of 1949, bec. the "occupation" is the root of all evil in the Middle East. Then when the Jews were expelled from Gaza by Sharon, Jack pinned the subsequent Arabian terrorism on the Jews anyway. Now that Israel acts within territory even the biased UN acknowledges as Israel's, Jack blames the Jews yet again. Nu, what can one expect from a goyishe kop, and an anti-Semitic one at that.

Howdy Yaakov; Perhaps you don't try to do so, but I try to keep the "damned lines" straight because that is the crux of the issue. The UN colors demarcation lines blue when they are internationally recognized borders between two sovereign countries (such as between Israel and Egypt, Jordan, Syria, and Lebanon), green when the line is a temporary armistice or ceasefire line between two belligerent parties (such as the 1949 armistice between Israel and the West Bank or the 1950 armistice line between Israel and the Gaza Strip), and purple when the line is an internationally monitored demiliterized zone (such as between the Israeli occupied Golan Heights and the rest of Syria). I don't think that there any such thing as a "red line", but you would have to ask the UN's Office of Cartography about that. I'm surprised that you show such a lack of interest in keeping up with what belongs to whom and why it is so. Perhaps you have already decided where Israel's borders are?

It is also possible that Hizbullah was in charge of the Lebanese Army vehicle/post. Or Hizbullah is wearing the Lebanese army uniforms forcefully taken from them. In this type of atmosphere where Hizbullah is the pre-eminent force, anything is possible. Allah Maak.

You have got to be kidding.

I know for sure that because of the Holocaust, the UN Partition PALESTINE in practically 50% for Arab Palestinians, and the other 50% for the Jews. Today the Jews have 78% of Palestine. Yes, the Green Line is an armistice line, but it is known as pre 67 BORDER recognized internationally, since Israel hasn't got a BORDER , with the hope that numerous wars will enable them to keep on increasing its natural size."" WE TAKE WHAT WE GOT AND LATER WE WILL TAKE THE WHOLE OF PALESTINE"" That what is happening.the only UNEXPECTED Problem DEMOGRAPHY As for the line in the NORTH, if each country has its respective one., and the blue line is in the middle. WHY then should IDF on the BLUE line, shouldn'they in fact be on their side of their fence.If anyone is on the other side of their fence then they are WRONG.NOW WHO is the FOOL? Fool.

if you want some part to sell in e-bay let me know there is nothing more easy to destroy than a tank you can run away fast enough ... i already sold many parts for collectors

It's OK, no matter the slant. Bias is in everyone's writing. I believe I am intelligent enough to garner the truth. One reason I read the Farsi News as well. Talk about bias. But, truth can be gleaned from that as well. I am most interested in reading about different viewpoints of all the issues we face in the world. I read the Kurdish news and Iraq. How else is one to understand if all opinions are not given the opportunity to be expressed. I am somewhat appalled at the Arab News from Saudi Arabia today. Shocked to find their courts are setting a precedent about family members and divorce. Now half brothrs and fathers can ask the court to divorce their sisters and daughters from their husbands. Husbands are ending up in jails for not agreeing with the courts. Lebanon, for all its problems, is a much better place to live. :)

I love how the Arab world doesn't hesitate to wag their crooked fingers in Israel's direction. Israel stayed on their side of the border, yet Senior Seniora, the mayor of Lebanon, shouts how Israel's the agressor. Israel is building a ramp so Muslims can visit a Muslim holy site, yet the ARab world's crying how israel's destroying the Mosque. What else is there...nuclear power for peace? Treaties that don't hold? Claiming to not be re-arming Hezbollah? Is there anything they say that can be believed? I honestly wish i could trust them, but they keep on putting their collective feet in their mouth every time they talk.

what do you jew haters have to say now??? oh the UN is siding with israel?? yeah right. now condemn the lebs for firing on IDF and demand an immediate UN resolution for the aggression. the lebs are lucky they only got warning shots and not blown to pieces.

Eva, now you have confused me. You are reproaching for quoting Moshe Dayan. Is he no longer your national hero to be reproaching me for it? Tonight was the first time I used a direct quote from him. Margie was referring to an interview in which Chomsky, not me, quoting Dayan.

Where were u when they were disseminating intelligence?..Who instills the fear in Lebanon? Hizbollah, of course...it's plain as the nose on your face...I was there...last year and I saw it for myself..A Jew in Lebanon, where at one time Jews flourished...Did you ever hear of Eduard Safra? He owned a bank there and my Muslim driverpointed out several pieces ofprime downtown Beirut real estate that is still owned by Jews...Have you ever been to Byblos, the ancient Phoenician city just north of Beirut, or been to the Bekka Valley, Tzur or Saida..What an ignoramus.!!!!

The "fear-drenched" atomosphere hat you describe would not be there is groups of terrorists (first Palestinians and now Hizbollah) did not insist on holding the people of southern Lebanon hostage to their well-known aspirations to keep attacking Israel from Lebanon's southern border.

"Following the discussion on the matter, the UN Security Council called for the renewal of coordination meetings between the IDF, the Lebanese Army and UNIFIL that had been customary immediately following the Israel-Hezbollah war this summer. LEBANON WAS NOT INTERESTED IN SUCH MEETINGS." Caps are mine for emphasis. A few rounds from the Merkavas up their toosh (ouch) may change their minds.

Human shields are quite a commodity these days: "The officer said there has been a growing presence of Islamic Jihad militants in southern Lebanon, as well as extremists affiliated with Al-Qaida and Sunni groups. These groups are seeking to challenge Hezbollah's hegemony in the area."

Lynn, sorry if I sounded against the remarks you mentioned, I wasn't. I guess you missed my post 316 to you.

Gabe, it isn't just Israel that is suffering because of the Shebaa Farms issue, the Lebanese too are also suffering. We haven't forgotten or gotten over having half the country bombed because of those 33 sq km. I too wish they would all stop playing games with it.

You did quote Moshe Dayan several times before

Gina, the ones who shot in the direction of the IDF were Lebanese army soldiers. I did refer to hizbullah that they would be drawn in but the story isn't about them. The update on this story has just been made here saying that the UN observers confirmed that the IDF did not cross the border. We will have to wait for the answer from the lebanese side. Was it a mistake by theh Lebanese because they couldn't make out the border? I don't know. All i'm saying is that contrary to what some jokers here are saying is that the Lebanese soldiers would not fire on a force 1000 times stronger than itself without a valid reason.

Ronnie, Don't be such a cynic (even though i can b quite cynical at times)..why couldn't we start a grassroots effort to export goodwill all over the world..maybe it could bear fruit...don't b too pessimistic, because where there is life, there is always hope..we just have to swim a little harder against the current...how's the X and the mishpocha?

How you must have laughed. In the UK if we see ballons we think very positive thoughts i.e. parties and celebrations etc. Guess the same is in the USA. I wonder what would create a huge amount of fear (to such an extent that a woman lost her mind and was taken to hospital - Gosh, you must have really giggled at that). How could someone think a balloon was sooo dangerous - perhaps because they are lunatics? Or because they are traumatised? Wonder how many giggles they have in such a fear drenched environment?

Wow. A UN body agreeing with Israel's version of something; of anything; holy Toledo! Holy Temple Mount! Holy Haram Al Sharif. Holy COw! This day could go down in History, unless of course, Clickfool advises us that it wasn't UNIFIL at all, but the Mossad.

"Siniora praised Hezbollah leader Sheik Hassan Nasrallah as a `man who believes in his cause and who sacrificed even his son for that cause.`" Not only his son, he also sacrificed hundreds of Lebanese civilians shielding his vast piles of weapons, all for the chance to have traded back one man in Israel's prison serving time for murdering an Israeli family, child included. No wonder the Lebanese are so proud of him!

Do you like German beer, Lynn...?? By the way, check my response on the Bush/Olmert Syria article, you might have gotten something wrong....

This is in and of itself a small incident. Maybe Lebanese green troops didn't realize that Israel doesn't literally place all of its fences on the north right on the border but for operational reasons places barriers a little in on the Israeli side. That anti-Zionist posters use this incident, of all things, as the peg on which to hang the usual dolorous picture of murderous, lying, atrocity commiting and Mossad-dispatching Zionist minions leaves me a little perplexed. The bait is far too small for the fish.

I find the charade over the Sheba Farms very comical to say the Least.If Syria wants to give the Lebanese the Sheba farms that is OK with me so why have they not signed a treaty with Lebanon to formally do that instead of playing games with both the UN and Lebanon. Syria is just playing a very dangerous game in order to justify Hizbullas existance and terrorism. That Walid is the bottom line. Lebanon must get the UN to certify that Sheba Farms is Lebanese territory otherwise do not make Israel suffer because of the Syria-Lebanon Dispute.FULL STOP.

Clickfool--to be perfectly honest I consider you a typical confrontational, and counterfactual anti-Semite. To be honest, you represent a reminder of the dangers Israel and Jews have faced through the millenia and a reminder that Israel cannot make concessions precipitously, considering the irrational obsessive intensity with which so many of the nations daily prey for her destruction and curse the children of Israel as a people, a historical community, a faith. The discussion here, in fact, confirms the counterfactual nature of your self-affirming, well, delusional fixations. You use a story that is headlined UNIFIL CONFIRMS IDF ACCOUNT about an incident in which UNIFIL observers confirm not dispute that Lebanese soldiers fired on the IDF unprovoked on Israeli soil as, somehow, a peg to assert routine Israel atrocities and lying even as your earlier claims that Israel lied in this small-bore incident have been flatly refuted. Have you no hobbies?

Thank you for reading them and you are very welcome. Even if Walid found them distateful. My point was to call attention to what can be done if ordinary citizens decide what is right.

Sorry Alex, obviously not as up to speed as yourself perhaps you can site the article on the chewing gum. The reference for my post is http://www.aljazeera.com/me.asp?service_id=13253 Thanks

clickfooled wrote: "My guess is that this was yet another example of an opportunistic IDF probe that met with un unexpectedly vigorous Lebanese response." You guessed wrong, and have now been proven wrong: "UNIFIL patrolled the area around Israel's and Lebanon's shared border, photographed the site, and concluded that IDF troops operated entirely within Israeli territory." Harry

clickfool the mass debater of England.Put up your brollies everyone!

V, I think we all knew exactly that this would never happen, didn't we...?? I think even the Israeli governement (PM inclu- ded) knew better. I very much think so.

Well, George, I guess, a little bit of time might have been left for them to pick up those few explosive devises, don't you think so...?? Otherwise one really would have to become worried about the health of those UNIFIL troops (stress-related syndrom...)

On the "no man's" land. UNIFIL confirms that Israel was on the Israeli side and is suggesting a liaison group between Israel, Lebanon and UNIFIL which I think is a good idea.

I have now read the UN report. The incident to which you refer involved a few Indian soldiers. It was reprehensible and I believe that the soldiers were disciplined for it in India. However, it did not represent official UNIFIL policy towards Israel. It is unreasonable to call UNIFIL a "staunch enemy" on the basis of this incident.

Lynn, of course it was wrong; all violent acts are wrong. I wish I could suggest an honest paper from here for you to read but they are all biased one way or another and you would never get a true story. It is almost impossible to read anything without feeling the slight slant to one side. Although I agree with Hizbullah defending the border, I did not agree with the abductions or of shelling of civilian areas. Did you know that although the Lebanese army did not lift a finger during the July war, the Israeli forces deliberately targeted and killed about 20 or 30 soldiers mostly in their barracks and over 100 miles away from the border? Maybe these shots at the IDF had something to do with that story, I don't know and I'm just guessing now.

LETS NOT KID OURSELVES....LEBANON HAS NOT HAD ITS SOVEREIGNTY IN THE PAST 20 YEARS (SYRIA, HEZBOLLAH, ETC.). HEZBOLLAH RECENTLY ASKED FOR THEIR WEAPONS BACK TO ARM THE FIGHTERS IN THE SOUTH. NOT ONLY DOES THIS VIOLATE INTERNATIONAL LAW, BUT IT GRANTS ISRAEL THE FULL RIGHT TO PROTECT ITS BORDERS AND CITIZENS. LEBANON SHOULD NOT HAVE SOVEREIGNTY UNTIL THEY ARE MATURE ENOUGH TO HANDLE IT.

What you believe, or do not believe, is of no consequence to anyone. Nor does Israel have any obligation to coordinate with enemy armies. You have a tendancy to think that Israel's sovereignty is cheap. If you want to give advice, give it to those who need it the most: Iran, Syria, Hizbollah and Hamas. They are the ones behind all of the provocations taking place. They need to stop.

they were behind UNIFIL troops.

Marwan They are all a gem,full of the facts and very informative to most of us.If you do not see some who responds to you,just blame Haaretz.They are far too busy,and innundated with so many responses to put out some I guess. This(if it comes out)is by way to inform you that you are not forgotten.And keep up the good work. P/S Haaretz this is for Marwan!!

This is rich coming from the man who is constitutionally incapable of saying the truth - where are the "three sunk IDF ships"? How does a ship with "major damage" get back in service a few days later? Still claiming millions of bomblets?

handle the truth !!! Sorry, that was Jack Nicholson's character as Col. Jessop in the movie "A few good men". I guess it never occured to Clickfool that his objectivety scale maybe seriously slanted. His interpetation of the recent episode is a good illustration. But as usual, his posts are entertaining and thought provoking.

the French didn't want the job. When Italy stepped up, the French decided they should take the job of leading UNIFIL. the only thing the French are good at is waving the white flag of surrender. It's one of their specialties.

Gabe, what you say is very right. I will explain to you tomorrow why the Defense Minister did not do the right thing as you called for it. I was and still am against the abduction of the 3 soldiers and I truly wish they would be released without further delays or negotiations. The whole idea of Hizbullah's existence is premised on Israel holding on to 33 sq km of Shebaa Farms that Israel and the UN say belong to Syria but both the Lebanese government as well as Hizbullah say are Lebanese and the Syrians give wishy-washy answers on them. In the supposed leak of last month of Syrian and Israeli peace talks with maps and all, there was no mention at all of the farms in the talks and I couldn't make out at all if the map showing the Golan included them or not. So you can see everybody is playing games with those XXX 33 sq km, Israelis, Lebanese government, the UN, Syria, Hizbullah. Too many people aren't in a hurry for a solution to this problem.

The so called 2.006 lebanese war wasan't a war. War means batles between armys. Israel used may be something betwen 0,50 to 1,0% of hi might and look wat hapned to lebanom. Hizb used about 30 to 40% of his rockets to kill about 40 isareli citizens, lost their freedom of moverment in the south, even Nazralah reconized that if he had any idea about the israeli resoponse he never would permit the operation for the abduction of the israeli soldiers, and today Hizb are traped by the new reality, if they tried another stupid movement like they did in july 2,006 surely Israel will feel free for a worst reaction

Lynn Hello Took notice of the site through you "Ya Libnan" and accessed it and read the article and pictures concerning the "ban" which most of them are calling "disgusting" and glad to be rid of it.Even taxi drivers are happy of the outcome.They are fed-up to be sure having to listen constantly nothing but politics/religion. Univercities can,but with due process and decorum. A step in the right direction,good for them.At last they have woken up,and are beginning to take note. It was an eye opener. I also read about the assasination attempt on Gaega which was averted.So many articles to read so left after awhile. Cheers dear Lynn

The border in this area is absolutely clear - not even Hizbollah is claiming this is Lebanese. So the IDF should ask the Lebanese Army to disable the mines? This would be the same Lebanese army that is meant to remove Hizbollah and stop them rearming?

Your "old trick" post referred to Hezbollah. "Now that the borders are finally defended by the army rather than by Hizbullah' Let's hope the Lebanese army isn't limited to the same inhumane animal instincts as Hezbollah.

going to Munchen and Alpirsbach. Probably staying with relatives. Tante Marie and Oncle Edie.

Lying, scheming, mistranslating, fabricating, spinning and propagandizing is what Israel does best. How many times have we read the comments of the Israelis following an atrocity only to discover - almost immediately - that it was their usual pack of lies?

No such thing as " no man land" on the Israeli-Lebanese border. It is strictly a border.

excuses why you don't respect anybody or anything than Carter has little liver pills. Nice BS spin try at Lebanon, but they are as much or more of a state than you are. At least they are not squatting on somebody else's land. Keep pushin your luck over there amongst the Arabs, why don't ya, keep on pushin and spinnin!

He's all over this Talkback insulting Israel, calling Israel a liar, deliberately misunderstanding the reasons for having a no-mans'-land between the fence and the border, deliberately misunderstanding the difficulty of identifying explosives in rough terrain, or perhaps he's never had to do anything like that himself, keeping his lilywhite hands pure to type on his computer. Unfortunately for him there's no counterpraise he can give to the Lebanese forces or to the cowardly Lebanese themselves. I think Walid should be glad that he's in Beirut, well out of range of the Israelis currently. He wouldn't be so brave if he met them in person.

You seem to have a serious problem of reading comprehension. Despite explanations from patient posters, you insist you know everything. There was no violation of 1701 (other than that by Hizbollah regrding every clause) becasue Israel did not cross its border with Lebanon nto Lebanese territory. The fence is where it is for the sake of expediency, easier or Israel to patrol. The actual border is further to the north. It's not nomansland, it's Israel's land. Do you get it now?

Margie in Tel Aviv, on Saturday February 3rd, I was not quoting Moshe Dayan but Noam Chomsky who referred to Dayan's comment on how to treat Palestinians. It went something like this: "He (Dayan) said to his cabinet colleagues that we should tell the Palestinians that we have no solution for you, that you will live like dogs, and whoever will leave will leave, and we'll see where that leads. That's basically the policy. And I presume the U.S. will continue to advance that policy in one or another fashion." This came from an interview by Amy Goodman of Noam Chomsky and Danny Gillerman. Rather than pinning it on me or refusing it from Chomsky because of your aversion to him, you should ask Gillerman why he did not deny the Dayan quote.

Sounds so ludicrous that it is beyond belief,especially coming from you dear Tosefta! Doing all you say why not also add that before taking action HOLD A CONFERENCE WITH THE PARTIES?Foolish to the exreme seems to me. If the affair is like a sort of a semi battle,(hough not quite)what you are advocating is unattainnable by virtue of time factor.And there is no time for dithering. Back to the blackboard Tosefta...

I thought France changed its name to the Democratic Islamic Republic and now they only produce knives and swords for beheading, a more aggressive armamament from tanks with three reverse gears. Did I miss something?

You underrate UNIFIL. They do good work carrying drugs for Hezbullah in the Middle East.

Why is Israel so worried about the northern border? And the Temple Mount. There's nothing vital here that can't wait and be done in a cooperative manner. These actions stir up the Arab world and make US diplomacy extremely difficult. Israel should be careful: the day may come when Rice and Bush say, "Enough is enough."

Promotional advertising. Helium filled. A Muslim woman lost her mind, husband took her to the hospital. No poison and no deaths. Talk about Lunatic Fringe. Funniest thing I have ever read. Was on FOX and CNN too. Balloons??? OMG, LMAO!!!!!!

Or has its rumor-mongering and sabre-rattling of Washington DC spilled over on to your campus? There are two different issues that you try to equate...the modus operandi of a typical loser with an argument that can't be supported. The border between Lebanon and Israel was never disputed and was marked back in 1923 by the French. This is the blue line, no one disputes this. The green line in Israel IS disputed and is called for by UN resolutions to be drawn based on negotiations. No where does it call for a return to the green line, specifically. The fence in the West Bank was placed to save lives. The # of suicide bombers (and thieves) has dropped dramatically because of it. The fence in the north has two fences, one on the Lebanese side, one on the Israeli side, and the blue line that goes evenly between them. Learn the facts before you speak, you fool.

BEtter think about your own soldiers ,,,we can look after ourself

They see only what they want to. Fact: The fence does not demarcate the border, which is actually a few hundred meters north of the fence. The fence is where it is due to terrain conditions. Fact: Last week Israel found weapons/bombs planted on the Israeli side the the REAL border. Fact: Israel decided to cross the fence and check out the area for more such planted bombs - in its own area. Fact: It notified both UNIFIL and the Leb aremy of its intentions. Fact: Theere was no reason other than stupididy/provocation or both from the Leb army to shoot at Israel. Fact: all your theories that try to indicate otherwise are all hogwash.

the green baloon stupidity sounds very much like the recent rumor in Egypt that Mossad was spreading some special chewing gum that promoted promiscuity among Egyptian youth. Go figure .... :)

I will reprint it for your convenience: "Liam McDowell, a spokesman for the UN Interim Force in Lebanon (UNIFIL), said the exchange was initiated by the Lebanese army and that the IDF bulldozer had crossed the border fence, but not the Blue Line, to clear mines." So it seems it IS only the Lebanese that makes the claim that Israel crossed the Int'l border. Hmm. You're arguments are so lame, they aren't even fun to dispute anymore. And by the way, no one cares of the Lebanese Army with the supposeed WWII weapons per se, it's the Hizbollah fighter infultration that is the world's focus, and has already been cited by a journalist from Reuters, the UNIFIL and the IDF.

Fouad Siniora said the troubles in his nation would subside if U.S. officials were to press Israel to withdraw its soldiers from Shabaa Farms, a small patch of disputed turf that the United Nations has said was part of Syria. 'In the Arab world there were always a lot of complaints and grievances against the United States?. They've pushed the Arab world toward extremism. The Arabs are 'being humiliated every day. The Americans can see with their own eyes the Israelis are subjugating the Palestinians,'Siniora said. 'The Arab-Israeli conflict is the mother of most problems in the Arab world,' he said a la Saddam. Siniora praised Hezbollah leader Sheik Hassan Nasrallah as a 'man who believes in his cause and who sacrificed even his son for that cause.' 'Syria is a state. You cannot eliminate that state from the map. You've got to engage with Syria ? to make it part of the solution, not part of the problem.' I ask Siniora: What about Israel? Is Israel a part of the map?

Lynn, of course it was wrong; all violent acts are wrong. I wish I could suggest an honest paper from here for you to read but they are all biased one way or another and you would never get a true story. It is almost impossible to read anything without feeling the slight slant to one side. Although I agree with Hizbullah defending the border, I did not agree with the abductions or of shelling of civilian areas. Did you know that although the Lebanese army did not lift a finger during the July war, the Israeli forces deliberately targeted and killed about 20 or 30 soldiers mostly in their barracks and over 100 miles away from the border? Maybe these shots at the IDF had something to do with that story, I don't know and I'm just guessing now.

What will happen with a whole united nation?

It's the Arab world that is lying. " It lied when it said it never used depleted uranium arms in Lebanon in July and it has been proven by 3 different laboratories in Europe that Israel used depleted uranium as well as enriched uranium in its Bunker Buster MK88 laser guided missiles." Bullshit. First off it doesn't work with missiles, second Israel doesn't have any depleted uranium rounds, third NO European labs said any such thing. You have been lied to again. " If you refer to a July 26 New York Times article, you will see that theh US government was rushing through an emergency shipment of these arms to Israel." Right and there is no bomb in the entire world that uses depleted uranium. It is ONLY used in tanks and is only go against armored vehicles. You do not know anything about weapons.

WE need people like you in this violent world. from now on I will definitely read you sensible posts.

Green line, blue line, red line, Israel has so many damn lines one can't keep them all straight. Left behind some uexploded Hizbollah ordinance? I thought Israel said the did it recently? Seems they slipped up and let it through? Maybe they should have caught it with one of their continuous overflights.

6 Lebanese soldiers were wounded by this recent exploit. So, yes, some were hurt. But hey, who cares. My view of the holyland is not jaded. My years there were wonderful and there was no failure, disillusionemtn perhaps but no failure. I loved the land and carry wonderful memories of it and all its people and a Shabbat in the quiet I remember in Jerusalem (perhaps not there anymore) So no, my aliya was hardly a mistake but one of the most improtant decisions of my life. I know most Israelis dont believe Syria wants peace if you did then you would have to return the Golan. That has more to do with not wanting to return the Golan than Syria wanting peace or not. maybe this is all about a hit on Syria as the force behind Hizbollah so its coming from a tactic of hitting the surce rather than its proxy. Another reason not to return the Golan... of the Wb or East jerusalem.

In this instance, and in previous wars. You don't have to be a military professional to notice enemies building up armor and personnel on your border, and spreading months of inflaming broadcasts prior - to know that an attack is coming. If I raise my hand to hit you, or a dog bears its teeth - you are not required to wait for the attack before you do something to protect yourself. A right protected in International law. Don't forget the Arab-launched attacks in 1920, 1929, 1947, the cross border attacks leading up to the 1956 Seuz campaign, the Syrian attacks on Israeli farmers prior to 1967 war, the Fatah attacks on civilians from Wb/Gaza regions, the PLO attacks on Israel from Lebanon, the Iraqi attacks on Israel in the Gulf War... Further your stupidity, only the Lebanese claim IDF infultration, everyone else disproved them. so history (and raw facts) proves you wrong...again.

You state that the IDF used depleted uranium shells against Lebanese villages, which I find incredible to believe, given how small the territories of Israel and Lebanon are, and how such a thing could easily impact Israel as well. I don't believe the Israelis to be this stupid. Still, you cite that, despite Israel's and the UN's denials of this, the Europeans have a report that confirms this. I would be interested if you could furnish us with a link to this report, if possible, and other possible supporting documentation, more than just the NY Times. You can email it to me, if you'd prefer. Thanks.

Gee, how do you know that the Israeli IDF did not cross the border? Israelis lie all the time and I don't expect them to tell the truth on this either. You may rightfully ask why I should believe the Lebanese army when it says it had reason to fire. It is simply because the Lebanese army isn't dumb enough to attack a force 1000 times stronger. Something had to have happened and from your comments, you sound like you are someplace as near to here as North America.

you are telling me , that Israel move its border 100 meters inside , when we know that they build fencs on Palestinians lands by kilometres. Pease man, be reasonable.Don't think we are all fools.

What has been shocking that for 7 years now the Lebanese have been harboring a Terror organization that provoked a war with Israel by crossing a recogniized International border and kidnapped Two Israeli soldiers and killed 4 soldiers. Whether Israel used depleted uranium shells or not is immaterial in the conduct of a WAR (yes I said WAR). Currently the Lebanese army and UNIFIL are turning a blind eye as Hizbulla rearms (as verified by Nasralla) and in contradiction to 1701.That is shocking. Have the Lebanese no concept of Honour in keeping agreements. And why is Hizbulla not disarmed? Another UN requirement.Israel has not crossed any Borders and that has been confirmed by a variety of sources including UNIFIL.Walid lets call a spade a spade and condemn the Lebanese Army for being foolish, trigger happy or whatever. The right thing to do would have been for the Lebanese Defence Minister to call UNIFIL and pass on a message to Israel that this will not happen again.

Truth is that Hizbollah should have been disarmed several years ago but it wasnt. Truth is that the kidnapped Israelis should have been released, but they are still being kept by the jihadists.

William, are you ridiculous to the point of thinking that the Lebanese soldiers shooting in the direction of the IDF were into a preemptive strike? Sorry then, nothing I can say would be of any help to you. The only ones saying they were inside Israeli territory were the IDF soldiers and their track record of telling the truth is very poor. When you guys start thinking that the Lebanese army with vintage WWII weapons are itching to rumble with the IDF, you guys are sick.

I don't know the answer to that. My theory, and it is no more than that, is that Israel wanted the battle to continue long enough to go in and give the coup de grace to Hizbullah but, not having the influence over US foreign policy that they are alleged to have, they were forced to cut short their operations. It would then have been logical to drop the bomblets to make it more difficult for Hizbullah to rebuild their infra-structure. If Hizbullah are the heroes and would-be martyrs they are cracked up to be, they and not the Italians should have been carrying out the clearance, perhaps after training.

UNIFIL in their brief to the UN said Israel did not cross the international border with Lebanon, but the fence which does not represent the actual border...TAKE THAT YOU ISRAEL HATERS

Sorry, I simply dont buy it. Why did IDF not notify of the Lebanese that Hizbollah had laid these devices there and they needed to be disengaged? To whom does this grey area of 20 metres or so belong to? Apparently we are to believe that the IAF is able to track arms flow coming in from Syria and does nothing to stop that but it misses Hizbollah plantng devises in this no mans land or Israeli land and no one notices.

UNIFIL wasn't very effective before the war either. Actually, considering the UN military efforts aruond the world, they don't seem to be very effective...anywhere. They might as well do cleaning missions. It's the work in between their extorting innocent villagers and raping young women.

Actually UNIFIL together with LEB.ARMY had to disarm HEZBALLAH-NASRALLAH terrorist group.

I must have you confused then with the Walid who contributes to a certain forum and who quoted Moshe Dayan on Saturday 3rd February, 2007.

Gina, you must be a blonde Gina. This story is about Lebanese soldiers shooting at Israeli soldiers for some reason or other and about Isareli soldiers shooting back. Hizbullah is not in this story.

One can only sympathize with the French.They were advised when they went in the Jews were not to be trusted. Still they have the firepower to deal with this rogue state and will use it.

Don't live in the past, there are new facts on the ground since last summer and lhe Lebanese Army has a mission in the south which it is fullfilling. The israelis should learn that they cannot cross the fence without being confronted to the Lebanese Army. If Israel builts it's fence inside Israel and behind the blue line, so it's there problem. It is impossile for the army to know at night where exactly the "blue line" is. So next time, if Israel wants to clear minefields on the other side of the fence, they will have to ask permission to UNIFIL and the Lebanese Army. Same for overflying lebanese territory. Don't cry when the first plane is destroyed, cope to the new situation!!!

not yet returned. They had to be returned IMMEDIATELY.

...how the UN can support Israel with its lab results, yet the British and the Swiss conflict? The UN has never been a friend of Israel, and the Brits and Swiss has always criticized Israel. - so doesn't it strike you as wierd for them NOT to agree on condemnation? Regarding the recent bombs found - I will choose the Arab logic in analyzing this one: who would more benefit by having it denied? Well, Hizbollah of course - because they would want to be shown to disregard the UNR1701 (again), neither would the UNIFIL and Leb army like to be shown to totally ineffective. Compare that with the Israelis who make it a point to monitor and study the border very well to catch the subtle guerilla acts of the Hiz - hidden bombs, hidden bunkers, etc. It was this same skill that allowed the IDf to find many Hiz bunkers quickly during the war. So, I trust the person who knows the area well rather than the propagandists that have much to lose at this news.

The line you're looking for is 'asking who won a war is like asking who won the San Diego earthquake.' No one ever 'wins' in war, just some people lose 'less.'

kes o5tak brejli

I'm not accustomed to exaggerating for the sake of effect. You may not have attached importance to the story of UNIFIL troops lending their official vehicle to Hezbollah so that they could kidnap three unsuspecting Israeli soldiers in 2000, while they watched and enjoyed the scene, taking a holiday video of it which they only eventually gave to the Israelis after they had carefully obscured the faces of the kidnappers. These same three soldiers were given back to us in bodybags. This was not the action of a friendly or even a neutral body. This was the action of enemies. Agreed?

You say that Israel might be lying about the incident. But UNIFIL agrees with Israel's version. And no one would claim that UNIFIL is biased in Israel's favor. They agree that it is Lebonan who is lying. Your spin is humorous. UNIFIL states that Lebanon fired on a bulldozer first, that is the "vigours response". It also states that Israel announced its intentions of detonating Hezbollah shells left there. And in response Israel fired back. No Israelis were harmed and a few Lebanese were wounded. In the annals of war I don't think that this will go down as a great victory except in the small minds of those who wish to revise history. Your war mongering rantings only serve exacerbate, not help to solve the problems. What a pity. Reb Bahir

The Lebanese army fire on the IDF, because they stipulated that the IDF was in Lebanese Territory by some 18 meters. They are there on the spot they should KNOW about their territory, unlike you sitting in ST JOHN WOODS of LONDON. Who is PROVOCATING WHO, for a WAR? The 1973 Y K war was the only war where the ARABS attacked first, but the rests........

Arabs: Demonstrate strong sense of justice in their posts, something denied to them ? forever by their own leaders. Key words: ?Believe me, we will destroy you if??; ?we won?; ?we will fight to the last man/woman/child;? ?we want a just peace?; ?stop the occupation?; ?Israeli terrorism? and so on and so forth. Anti Semites: Demonstrate clear hatred. Key Words: ? Zionists?; ?swine;? Pigs? ?Why are you the chosen people?; ?Jewish terrorism?; ?Jewish influence?; ? Zionist/Jewish press?; ?money lenders? and so on and so forth. Just a general observation. Not a study by any means. The end game may be the same. But I would rather take my chances with the Arabs. Medieveal western anti-semitism is alive and thriving. Just because the westerners no longer walk in a forward slant??the trees are still there for them to climb back on. Cheers ya'all.

0 for 3, perchance?

If you would suggest another paper to read, I would gladly do that as well. Yes, I think everyone should be tired of the crap by now. I also think Nasrallah was wrong. It is my feeling he has done the Lebanese people a great disservice.

They notified both UNIFIL and the Lebanese army of their intentions and did what they said they were going to do and no more. How many Israeli soldiers were there to "provoke a confrontation"? Why did they stop firing after two rounds?

Howdy Qassem; The IDF operation was conducted entirely on the Israeli side of the Blue Line and with advance notice given to UNIFIL and to the Lebanese Army. Could you please explain to us where the "violation of Lebanese sovereignty" took place before the Lebanese Army opened fire?

they are so busy cleaning the mess of the millions of cluster bombs dropped on S.Lebanon.

Due to your poor English it is hard to understand what you are trying to say but knowing the ultranationalist and the Islamists in Turkey I see that you are trying to create the usual fairy tale conspiracy theories to attack USA and Israel. What you are missing is that Israel has been an ally of Turkey. Arab nations on the other hand have been against Turkey in many issues including Cyprus. In fact Lebanon was among the few countries that passed a law that accepts the Armenian Genocide while Israel does not. Syria harbored the PKK terrorists for decades training them and financing them, USA helped Turkey to catch Apo. This week the Jewish lobby in USA supported Turkey against the Armenian bill to be brought to the congress. Stop believing in fairy tales and start following the peaceful path of Ataturk