UN human rights chief endorses Goldstone Gaza report

Who is responsible for the violence in Iraq? the US or Iraqis? Iraq had no WMDs any deaths in the Iraq war is due to Americas fault.

For firing those thousands of rockets that forced Israel to react, let Hamas investigate itself first

If the Israeli government had shown any interest in pursuing a peace deal, Fatah would have helped to block the referral of war criminals to the the Intl Crim Ct. Netanyahu's government has flatly refused to move forward offering only the status quo only plus more settlements. There will be peace when Israel wants it and not before. Unfortunately, it now wants more land, not peace.

Like the past wars as in Lebanon in the early 80's, Israel investigated the tragedies of civilian deaths and declared in its own report of indirect responsibility to having caused such calamity. Goldstone's report should be used as such an initiative a democratic nation must take for its legitimacy. But how will Hamas respond to investigate its responsibilities and neglect in handling the Gaza situation prior to Cast Lead?

... after his colonoscopia (no, I am not being facetious at all).

Current international law evolved directly because of the horrors of WWII. Precision weapons were not invented and the extent of destruction dwarfs anything since. Too complex to debate here. I agree re Iraq. I think Bush and others should be prosecuted, but we never deliberately target civilians like Israel. There have been terrible problems if Afghanistan, many prompted by 1 tribe telling us about false, rival targets. Our strategy has changed several times because of excessive civilian deaths. There have been many real investigations and some US soldiers have been prosecuted. Comparing a short-lived invasion like Cast Lead to an 8 year war is ridiculous. Even if your Afghan ratio is correct (which I strongly doubt), 1:39 is far more proportional than 13:1400, 13:700 or another Gaza estimates. As a lawyer, I've fought the death penalty and represented death row inmates, but that has nothing to do with Cast Lead. One's crimes do not excuse another

Following WWII, the UN and most of the world created international law based in part on the principle of proportionality. The war in Iraq is a travesty for which Bush and others should be tried, but the US did not deliberately target civilians like Israel. The casualties in Afghanistan are mostly combatants killed over 8 years (not weeks), but there have been problems investigated and, in some cases, prosecuted. Our strategy there has changed because too many innocents were dying. I was jailed and almost imprisoned re Vietnam, so I certainly wont argue with you there. I also protest and have represented inmates on death row. None of this is, however, relevant to Cast Lead. One's crimes are not excused by those of another. Given the vast destruction in WWII, any discussion would take weeks. I certainly don't defend the Soviets. Slightly over 1000 Israelis died in the 2d intifada and you ridicule US response to 3,000 civilians killed in 1 day?

... since there was no recorded earthquake or tzunami by anyone, neither for not against, the astute Goldstone concluded that it was recently man-made...

Abdolutely right. Your comment is excellent discribing the distructors who are against humanity.

We have this broken records for 62 years. Jarid Khan's comment is absolutely right.

First of all, what makes you think I defend all arabs? I am bitterly opposed to occurrences in Egypt, Sauid Arabia and elsewhere. I condemn brutaility and human rights abuses everywhere. Nonetheless, I disagree with but understand why many support Hamas given the crimes of the IDF which directly affect millions of Palestinians every day. I condemn all terrorists, including radical Islamicists, but I see no more evidence of respect for human life by the IDF. You're wrong. Israel did bomb hospitals, schools, UN compounds and other places the innocent went for refuge. The "timeouts" were a pathetic joke that helped very little - a PR stunt.

Reading the comments makes it clear that few have read the report. IF they had they would understand that Judge Goldstone recommended that Israel itself conduct an open and honest investigation rather than have the matter referred to the ICJ. This is what the USA, Great Britain and France are asking Israel to do. That the response continues to be lies and smears pretty much proves that Israel is afraid to conduct an honest and open investigation.

The report is about war crimes committed during the Gaza war. Why Peres is talking about Iran which is a completely different story. Iran never occupied others lands or built illegal settlements any where.

Answer 1\ British Bogus Intelligence Answer 2\ Britain is a Poodle, Dragged by their Master, known as Uncle SAM Answer 3\ Oh jolly good, a war Lets join in like the good old times, Lets bring all our friends Australia the Irish and everyone and kick their ass Answer4\ War on terror

End the occupation and the oppression! Quit looking for or instigating excuses for not negotiating final status issues. Define borders, and build anywhere you want within them. When attacked, don't engage in collective punishment as you have for so many years. Don't drop bombs on 4 story buildings to kill just one man, and claim that the rest of the dead were just unanticipated collateral damage. In short, end the need for anymore Goldstone reports. Dead Palestinian children are equal to dead Jewish children in God's eyes. To deny this is to deny God.

Like you, I dont live in Israel. I have, however, visited the West Bank and watched the conduct of the IDF. Have you? I have been studying this conflict for over 20 years. Over 50% of the books I've read were written by Israeli Zionists and historical figures, including Begin, Nahum Goldmun, Benny Morris and others. Most of the others were written By Jews as well. I make few if any comments about the "Israeli people" as a whole. I comment about Zionists, which does not include all Jews or all Israelis and about Israel. I don't claim to understand Israelis except per books and Haaretz. But I do know that war crimes and the Israeli atrocities I've personally witnessed are wrong and intolerable. I didn't need to go to Germany to condemn its actions in WWII. Moreover, I believe that most non-settler Israelis are good, decent people ignorant of the crimes of their government. The disproportionate influence of the fanatics is disheartening

Maybe war criminals should be individual accountable instead of each country. Do a backwards investigation and then the individual is tried. For instance the individual who ordered phosphorous used. Like the rape squad group we fought. Like the person who was the head ordering it in each individual world leader who sent in mercenaries to kill maim and attack innocent families then those people should also be convicted of war crime and the individual who got funds dropped in their accounts. I did nt get paid I got shot but I was pulling children and elders out of harms way and I am Israeli Defense Force since 14. We defended and cleaned house. I don't kill I will maim. Every soldier has a family somewhere he or she supports . I will flat out shoot you in the leg though if you attack. Rankoo-Karoon

Is the motivation behind the Goldstone report to lower Israel's standing in the world to the level of Hamas and Hezbullah to force a peace settlement which might not be in Israel's best interests? He does not have to be very bright to realize that Israel, which is a sovereign nation and has been routinely attacked by rockets from Gaza, would defend its citizens in a way to eliminate these attacks in the future. The "rules of war" are generally set by the lowest form of conduct which is Hamas. The brutality which they inflict regularly on fellow Palestinians in Gaza who oppose them is their standard of behavior.

important witnesses are. It is not that I disagree with findings - I really do not care. While I think that G/stone is perennial Feuchtwanger Jew trying to balance his own skin vs the hide of his people I sincerely do not care what our enemies think of us - we saw it all. I know my people, their inherent humanism and their tremendous investement in humanity both in culture and technical progress. Of course I would enjoy questinoning "witnesses" and with all fairness they should be available for cross examination. Last time we were blamed for killing Arabs to transplant their organs...

Ridiculous. Hamas is well known as an evil terrorist organization. It is already ostracized and penalized by the UN, US, EU and many others. The actions Israel has and is continuing to take against Hamas already go beyond international law - except for individual trials - so advocating action against it is a waste of breath. If, however, individual Hamas militants are found to have committed war crimes and can be arrested, they should stand trial right next to the Israelis. The Goldstone Report certainly creates a foundation for any such charges. Israel, on the other hand, claims to be a "western democracy" with the "most moral army." The IDF itself reports that Hamas is trying to stop the Qassams, the proper response to Goldstone while Israel lies and stonewalls.

Good. I look forward to seeing Tony Blair on trial and locked up for life, and of course George W Bush. Or do you think that might not happen? We've just committed ourselves to another 500 troops today to Afghanistan. More Death. Hopefully, assuming we catch them we could try half the leaders of the World for War Crimes and Crimes against Humanity. I'd be into that. Including Olmert BTW.

These posts by Cipora are the only posts that are true and factual. The rest, especially those by the anti Israel posters are the usual BS. Did the anti Israel posters read Cipora's posts? Probably not.

Any sanctions by the UNSC could, probably, be vetoed by the US?

Not every report on Israeli crimes needs to mention Hamas. I'm sure there are documents about Hamas terrorism that don't mention Israeli crimes. No one but the ignorant and Zionist fanatics can believe that Goldstone, a Jewish Zionist, is a vicious anti-semite or biased against Israel. The Goldstone report, none of which has ben repudicated by Goldstone, does find war crimes by Hamas, including the Qassams. Hamas is an evil, well known terrorist organization condemned by most countries, including the US and EU, who will not deal with them in any way (but we deal with Israel). The idea of taking action against Hamas - except for individual trials - is ludicrous. Human rights laws prohibit what the Israel has done and is doing to them, much less additional sanctions. If the UN/ICC can get ahold of Hamas militants and identify war crimes for which they are responsible, they should certainly be tried - just like the Israelis.

Like the UN really knows about Human Rights. How many nations are ruled by dictators and their people are oppressed. Until the UN cleans its own house. Human rights on any level should not even be talked about. What a bunch of liars all the members of the UN are. The Goldstone report is not worth the paper its written on.

In our superficial, image-obsessed world today, shouldn't Israel try to put a beautiful face before the media as much as possible? I'd nominate Miri Regev, who was an IDF spokesperson a couple years back. No doubt Ms. Shalev is highly qualified and all that. Surely it's her merit that got her the post. Not political payoffs. Of course Lieberman, Silvan Shalom, Amir Peretz, all the most skilled people for their jobs. Maybe Ms. Shalev can write the statements, and Ms. Regev would read them. "Telegenic" is a qualification.

"not once in any article that I have read so far in Haaretz, from the AP, as well as other sources, has anyone demanded of Hamas as much as they are demanding of Israel." The PA and Hamas have both accepted the Report and agreed to carry out the investigations Goldstone wants. Only Israel has refused so far. http://www.maannews.net/eng/ViewDetails.aspx?ID=232446

tough luck. You are not in--you cannot win. Goldstone and his crew made numerous attempts to get Israel to be a part of the investigatio. Not only did Israel not take part they put obsatcles in Goldstones way--ie, would not let them into the West bank to intervies witnesse. "174. During its meetings in Gaza, Amman and Geneva, the Mission discussed matters within its mandate with Palestinian counterparts. While no cooperation was received from the Government of Israel, the Mission met a number of Israeli citizens formerly in senior Government positions. 175. In order to provide the parties concerned with an opportunity to submit additional relevant information and express their position and respond to allegations, the Mission also submitted comprehensive lists of questions to the Government of Israel, the Palestinian Authority and the Gaza authorities in advance of completing its analysis and findings. The Mission received replies from the Palestinian Authority and the Gaza authorities but not from Israel.

If Netanyahu would budge even an inch on this aledged factor of IDF going beyond their designated authority in Gaza,Bibi's coalition would unravel in a very short period. The U.S. is very well aware of this.

While the US has killed far too many civilians, the vast majority occurred in accidents and all were investigated. A number of US military personnel have been tried for criminal conduct and are currently in prison. Moreover, our strategy has been modified to minimize the problem. Not even the Taliban has accused the US of deliberately targeting civilians - unlike Israel per the Goldstone report. If a UN panel investigates war crimes by the US, I assure you we will cooperate with the investigation and treat the findings seriously. Unlike the IDF, we admit our mistakes and never deliberately target civilians. As to Iraq, I think our invasion was wholly unjustified and would urge cooperation and compliance with any UN investigation. The Afghan groups killed over 3,000 US civilians - far more than the slightly over 1,000 Israelis killed during the 2d intifada, much less the Qassams. I dont always agree with US policy, but we dont conduct war on civilians like Israel.

I've just read the report on Reuters - I can Imagine what the reaction of Netanyahu and Lieberman will be - absolutely apoplectic!

Can you give me one other reason that makes opposers of the report say it is flawed beside it's findings?

Your remarks about the behavior of Arabs are quite outrageous. I cannot imagine that a Palestinian mother or Father is less carefull with their children than a Jewish mother. One small additional point, where are the shelters in Israeli Arab villages?

He fails to mention that this was to try and stop the thousands of rockets that had been fired at Israeli towns since the Gaza withdrawl. Gaza is riddled with smuggling tunnels and full of weapons being used against Israel something NO COUNTRY CAN TOLERATE He says nothing of the fact the IDF tried to avoid civilian casualties by sending SMS messages to cellphones and dropping leaflets saying we are going to bomb this building so get out. He counted bodies not who was who. Of course there were civilian casualties in urban warfare its impossible to avoid but its generally accepted the majority of the dead were combatents. Sure the IDF made some tactical errors which resulted in unececarry deaths but the reality is war its unpredictable and sometimes you make the wrong decissions This operation was JUSTIFIED based on the fact Hamas started it with rocket fire. When will we get a report on US & UK conduct in Iraq. There was certainly more justificton for Cast Lead than Iraq

Alright yes I do. Lebanon has just been elected to the United Nations Security Council

For your information Britain is no llonger in Iraq and we are having an inquiry into why we went to war. There is also an inquiry into British mistreatment of prisoners running concurrently. So one has to ask the question, if we can look into the darker places of political decisions and mistreatment (not even alledged BtW the Iraqis have recieved compensation) why is it unreasonable to ask Israel to do the same. Even the United States has prosecuted soldiers suspected of wrong doing and found them guilty. So what makes Israel so special?

Quote: ""The Goldstone report constitutes a wake-up call that cannot be ignored.". Does anybody truly believes that Hamas is going to acknowledge the report, let alone do anything about it? The is the hypocrisy and the double standard about what goes in the U.N. in general, and in the Human Rights Committee (some committee) in particular. When (not if) Hamas will ignore anything and everything about the report, except of course bashing Israel, will not take any measures, will not conduct any "domestic' investigation, who's going to blame Hamas and held it accountable? Nobody. If (or when) Israel does not conduct "domestic investigation", Israel is going to be held accountable. Does His Honor (yeah) Judge Goldstone is capable of defining what is "disproportionate" strength? I don't believe he is. There is nothing new in the U.N.

christian & jewish religious sites, occupied more lands than the arabs thru the centuries since Islam & the concept of Jihad appeared. That's historical & continued in India at the turn of the century, and nowadays in Pakistan & Afghanistan.

I read in haste and sincerely apologize to the above respondents. I shall be more careful in the future.

"Gazans waged an idefensible series of attacks on Israeli over an 8 year period, killing roughly 25 Israelis. A measured, proportionate response was justified." Really! If this was happening at the border with the US,in one day, the army would have moved to the border & bombarded the whole city without worrying about the population. The reasons why more Israelis did not die are that: 1) there are shelters built for each building, Israel has been at war since its creation & took mesures to protect its civilians(You need to go visit & see it for yourself, quite impressive). You would think that Hamas with their charter, brain washing, attacks would do the same, but that's not the case. In the Gaza war, only the leaders hid & were protected. 2) Israelis don't let their civilian roam around like arabs do. 3) They don't send their kids, young boys, girls & women on suicide missions. Hamas does not care about the population, it's only using them for their PR.

is he alright or has he had some sort of do? I would have thought he would have been at the forfront of trying to persuade the United States Britain and France to reject out of hand the Goldstone Report. Instead we heard his speech in the Knesset on Monday and nothing since.

If you're truly rankled by the results of Hamas' war against Israeli civilians, perhaps now you'll devote your life to denouncing Islamic terrorism against Israeli civilians.

"Jacob Blues, that`s because Hamas cooperated ...Israel did not. Had Israel cooperated it would have made it a whole lot easier to blow off." If someone continually tried to lynch BSNews, he'd eventually cooperate with them.

Sir, Stating that G/stone report flawed does not constitute defense against its "findings". Of course Mohammedan dominated organisation that ordered the report is satisfied - good for them.

No one, certainly not the Goldstone Report, is alleging "genocide" in Gaza. War crimes and crimes against humanity are not genocide. As for the countries you cite, I don't understand your reference. Genocide was not carried out in the majority of them but human rights violatins, repression, possbile war crimes and crimes against humanity, certainly and they are being investigataed. That does not mean Israel should not be investigated because the world has alot of other bullies. It just means Israel is among their lot.

"and since nobody told him it was an earthquake, he decided that Israeli aggressors caused it." and if they had told him it was an earthquake. He would have believed them? So the assumption is that Palestinians don't lie? but Israelis do? Perhaps it's all a little deeper that we think?

nobody in the UN, US & EU seem to care for Tibet. They lost more than a million persons in the fight against China. They live in abject poverty including the Dalai Lama. Tibetan women prostitute themselves just to be able to eat. No UN program was ever set up for them, no donation from the world over is sent to them. No UN condamnation of CHina for their blatant occupation, as they build new cities for the Chinese to move to. Easier to condemn & concentrate just on Israel. Everyone needs China, they finance half the world debt. Even Obama delayed his photo op with the Dalai not to offend China.

Is the title of an article by Louis Rene Beres on USnews.com It states that while Israel is defending itself from terrorists, Hamas is intent on destroying Israel and committing a genocide of the Israelis.

She offered the same platitudes with the Israeli refusal to cooperate with the UN Commission inverstigating Israel's alleged war crimes in Jenin. For her and those like her, Israel must be above investigation. It should be permitted to operate according to its own laws and be judged by no one. How dare the world assume this attitude toward Israel, is this mindset.

Good thing the US and Britain never looked at "proportionality" or WWII would have been lost to the Nazis and Japanese! thousands of the enemy were killed for every Ally soldier! But let's look more recently: 84000 Iraqis have been killed from 2004 to 2008; thousands of CIVILIANS killed by NATO drones and bombers since January alone with approx. 800 NATO deaths. A NATO report stated 39 civilians are killed for every NATO death. We do understand that in a State where the death penalty is executed like water, you have no true concept. But if you demand "proportionality" it should be universal! Let's put Obama Brown Biden and Jones on trial for crimes against humanity and war crimes!

She gets up and has the chutzpah to say"back off and let us do what we have to do. Talk morality to somebody else, not to us. Let us do what we have to do. She then procedes to point out the faults of others as a means of deflecting attention away from Israel which she represents as a country only out to defend itself, as if she is not reperesenting a country that has turned Gaza into a humanitarian hell hole and carries on with land theft at an unprecedented rate, in violation of international law and the Genva Conventions. And this one has the gall to point fingers and spout platitudes about "terror".

You always put the cart before the horse. The sequence of events, lest you should forget was, 8,000 rockets into southern Israel from a distance of roughly half a mile and after years of threats by the Israeli Government the Invasion of Gaza took place. It was a cynical War, a War brought on by a Government that wished to retain power, and for this Olmert and his pals should be held acountable.As for the War itself, there were even people here egging Israel on, they really thought Hamas would beat the IDF back and could hardly wait to see the first Israeli tank on fire. Don't you out there remember this? If Israel had not gone in hard (from their point of view) the whole country would have come into question from both Jews and Arabs alike. That could have signalled the way to another Regional conflict which I believe would have become Nuclear since Israel cannot any longer hope to defeat all its enemies simultaneously.

Kaliningrad is legally part of Russia, as Arizona is of the USA and Tibet is of China. These places are not occupied. Gaza and the West Bank have not been annexed by Israel. They are occupied. Who's stupid now?

For UN representatives & political figures, who are used to sit in offices and only see paper all day, talk to people, go endlessly on trips spending money on unfruitful conferences, war is not real. They never went to war and never saw one close. UNHRC who was headed by Libya, one of the terrorist nation, sent Goldstone to arrive to his conclusions. That should tell you what these lofty UN workers with their lofty ideals, only concerned with Israel, will decide. Arab nations who are a majority in the UN with the South American & African dictatures, are trying to win diplomatically, with their one sidedness & goal of a middle east without Israel, what they lost on the war fields. Israel will survive this as it survived the 5 wars, the terrors, Durban, other resolutions, etc... People will wake up in the US & EU when the Jihad concerns them more that it concerns the Jews & Israel.

Sir, It was very effective operation by suppression of the aggression by non-uniformed (civil) terrorists hiding among civil population. They were hiding in hospitals and schools and kept ammunition in mosques.

Terrorists actually dared to attack the mighty land of Freedom and Democracy and a few short years later a million Iraqis are dead. It didn't matter that Iraq never had WMD's, Iraq was pay back for Daddy. How many dead in Afghanistan? how many new troops will Obama send to Afghanistan and how many more will return in body bags. Let's take a real look at China in Tibet , Russia in Georgia, Sri Lanka, Somalia, Zimbabwe, Indonesia,Britain in Iraq and Afghanistan, Bangladesh,Pakistan and India, Sudan, Nigeria,Siera Leone and Zimbabwe. Let's start a real investigation into the Genocide of millions of innocent people Yaakov. That would be a real Mitzva..wouldn't it? BTW

You are undermining your own deligitimisation of Goldstone and his report and your own credibility and trustworthyness by ALSO taking the bench of the defense. If you say there is nothing to defend, then do not defend. If you say there is nothing to defend but still defend it is clear you do not believe your own statement and opinion. You are like the guy still talking after his listener left and who still does not see he is talking to himself.

"An ordinary person would think that an emergency UN session would be called when Gazan and Lebanese terrorists fire missiles into Israeli territory, or because of the Iranian nuclear threat," "The pretense of urgency in this session is an attempt to 'hijack' the council's agenda to promote the report, a move supported by none other than Libya - a country that has only recently celebrated the return of the Lockerbie bomber,"

I thought that you would be smarter than that. Proportionality in war?there is no such thing. Did 100.000 Americans died in Iraq?,or 60.000 in Afghanistan?how many Vietnamese died?How many in Hirosima?How many the Soviet killed in Chechnia?the Japanese in China and Korea? was all of that proportional?They have killed 3.000 Americans in 9/11,and you have killed hundred times that number as retaliation. BTW,Your state execute innocent people,not the enemy,your own people.

Please, stop bellyaching so much. Israel made a huge mistake not to participate in the investigation in the first place. Typical Israeli attitude of "holier than thou." Well, guess what? It has come back to bite them in the rear BIG TIME and now it is too late to try to undo the damage. It is done. Over with. Notice that even the U.S. is insisting that Israel undertake a proper investigation. What is Israel afraid of? That it will find that ipso facto the IDF were guilty of war crimes and/or crimes against humanity? This event amply demonstrates that Israel had better get with the program of making peace with the Palestinians. Israel's moral credibility is shot. Gone! Don't see how it will ever regain it. Bon chance!

is why the Arabs and Muslims in Islamic as well as those residing in the Western World support Palestinians sacrificing one MILLION Gazan children to safeguard the life of only ONE of their protected, heroic, holy Islamic terrorists? Why aren't Arabs concerned with Palestinian civilians deaths enough to withhold finanical and media support from those Hamas terrorists who fail to cherish and protect the children of Gaza? The salient issue is human life is not valued amongst those societies who produce, promote and sanction Islamic terrorism. Israel could have fought the war as do the Arabs and left thousands upon thousands of people dead. Instead she demonstrated her moral superiority to her neighbors once again by refusing to bomb the hospitals the Holy cowards of Hamas were hiding in and by giving the "timeouts" allowing the United Nations to distribute aid every day to the civilians held hostage by Hamas.

We defend Haniye and Abbas,Bibi and Lieberman. Ahmadinejad and Nasrallah.Shas and Meretz. The UN and EU.IDF and the PA settlers and Hamas. It would lead to nowhere. They all have to be accused,not defended. But i guess it is human nature to be biased.

WHY reade. WE know what the IDF did will be in capital letters. What the Pal did will be in such small letters even glasses would not help.

'You mean all "witness" statements may be discounted? G/stone saw destruction and since nobody told him it was an earthquake, he decided that Israeli aggressors caused it.' 17 G/stone saw destruction and realized that Hamas did not blow up their own Flour Plants, Sewage-Works, fruit orchards, vegetation, ambulances, hospitals ... Then along with the sightseers who gathered every day from vantage points around Sderot to get their daily fix, we all saw the explosives raining down on Gaza from F-16?s tanks and artillery shells.. We even saw clearly the white phosphorous exploding all around civilian centers. Israeli soldiers themselves have talked about 'insane firepower', there being no sign of Hamas fighters, yet they still destroyed whole rows of apartments. What HRW(5 reports), Amnesty (2 reports), B'Tselem and others already knew and reported, Goldstone saw first hand. It was a war scene but not a war. "This was like PlayStation, a computer game." "It was like a child with a magnifying glass burning ants" IDF soldiers.

Don- unless you have lived in Israel and really know the Israeli psyche you are just like the rest of the armchair commandos. You see the conflict thru the lense of the TV or magazine. You can read you can watch and digest all this until your blue in the face. Being that said you will never understand the two peoples and each ones aim because your an outsider devoid of the realities on the ground. I have lived in Israel and visit frequently so please dont lecture me or Israelis in general about their attitude and what they should or should not do. DO not cast judgement on a nation and people who all they ask for is to live in peace and quiet. They take no comfort and joy in killing palestinians as you alluded to. However unlike you they know the Arabs and what they are capable of doing. And lastly the numbers game of deaths are irrelevant. One death is tragic enough

They made Saddam a president,and Assad,and Ahmadinejad,and Gadhafi."The fantastic four". How many massacre does that cover?.get a calculator!

Sir, Please read some literature on subject - proportionality - it is not what you thing. Now, in regard of what is one Israeli solder's value - it is 1000 Arabs as per current exchange rate

Madame, You mean all "witness" statements may be discounted? G/stone saw destruction and since nobody told him it was an earthquake, he decided that Israeli aggressors caused it.

Israel fought a just war for a just cause and got the result desired: fewer rockets. Israel's only obligation in the war was to keep Israeli casualties down and bring hamas down to earth. If there are no more rockets there will be no more Cast Leads. What the Israeli bashers on this board want is to have hamas still fire rockets and have no Israeli response. Goldstone in that scenario will be nowhere to be found.

The excesses of the IDF and the settlers cannot and should not continue. The occupation has been a facade for Israeli expansionism. Israel needs to be accountable.

At least they didn't make him prime minister, as is the practice in Israel. Look up Ariel Sharon's role in the Qibya massacre.

Certainly these allies of Israel cannot think that an unbiased investigation of the conclusions of the Goldstone Report could be carried out by the party that stands accused--the IDF? That is nonsense. Israel, in the past, has shown great reluctance to carry out investigations and when they have it has indeed been the IDF that has done the investigating and in the majority of cases, the IDF of course has been exonerated. Israel, in any case, is unlikely to initiate an investigation since admitting the need for an investigatin itself implies a semblance of guilt and futrther Israel is really aware that too many of the charges cannot be refuted.

Those Jews are trying to defend themselves against the brutal terrorist murderers of Hamas who murder their own people like members of Fatah. Same in nearly all Moslem countries whether in Lebanon where our fellow Christians are persecuted and have been murdered or in other Arab countries where Moslems freely murder their fellow Moslems. Why just today I read of another another number of Iraqis murdered and in the New York Times:"This week, a draft report by Iraq?s Human Rights Ministry said that from 2004 to 2008 - the period of the bloodiest sectarian strife - that 85,694 people had been killed and 147,000 wounded." And how many more everyday in the other Arab countries?

"Starting with a human rights commission they controll" Would that you and yours could only control it. Peter, just be very grateful that you appear to control the use of the veto in the UNSC and be satisfied with that little coup. That such a small nation[the tail] should be so adept at deflecting criticism and censure from a body that purports to represent the whole planet [the dog] rather than serve only to cover up the crimes of the superpowers and their allies. I never excuse attacks on children and helpless civilians, unlike yourself who makes a hobby out of such debauchery, but you seem to forget that before the so called 'excuse' of the occupation was the little matter of mass expulsions of an indigenous people. What did you think, they would roll out a red carpet? As I said to you only a couple of days ago; divide the land fairly, before it divides you. P.S. By the way, what did you think of the J.Post article. It has made quite a few waves. He seems to be describing your own arguments down to a tea. Did it resonate?

"An ordinary person would think that an emergency UN session would be called when Gazan and Lebanese terrorists fire missiles into Israeli territory" Nonsense. The Qassams are indefensible but they've killed a grand total of less than 25 Israelis in the last 8 years. Goldstone documented 8 deaths in the two years preceding Cast Lead. Please identify for me any UN investigation into something that killed 8 people over 2 years or 25 over 8 years. The real problem is, though they know better than to admit it, most Israelis mourn every Jew's death but don't consider Pal deaths, even those of completely innocent people, as worthy of notice. That's the only way to explain Israeli nonchalance about the killing of over 1,400 Gazans, hundreds of them civilian noncombatants, in retaliation for the killing of 25 Israelis. I fear many Israelis would gladly murder 100 4 yr old Pal children to save 1 IDF soldier. The concept of non-combatants means nothing unless theyre Jews

are killing civilians in Iraq, Afghanistan and Pakistan in large numbers has no specific bearing on Goldstone's report or Israel's actions in Gaza. They are all war and humanitarian crimes and all responsible must be and will be brought to account. All you are saying in reality is that the world should concentrate on others' war crimes, rather than inconveniently look at Israel's (alleged) ones. That just does not wash. Humanitarian and war crimes by states are a very slippery slope. That is why there has been a long line of Serbian, Croat, Rwandan and Sudanese officials gracing the ICC in recent years. The Sri Lankan, Israeli and other governments that commit war crimes are not immune. If Israeli officials are deemed guilty, they just have to stand in line with officials from the Janjaweed militia, Al Qaeda, Hamas and any others who decide to ignore international law. If there are allegations about the US, UK, etc., they need to be made and treated in exactly the same way.

And who will investigate 'war crimes' of US/Brit/France/Germany that killed and maimed hundreds of thousands while fighting their war against terrorism in Afghanistan/Iraq?

They lose twice first by agreeing to Goldstone investigation and than by pulling it,Abbas and the PA are dead men walking, there is no credible PA leadership just Islamist terror group called Hamas et al.and a bunch of empty suits on the WB proteceted by Israel, Europe and Obama.

For accusations collected from Hamas people? But if you are full of remorse for blaming Israel for Hamas use of human shields that killed 600+ civilians,then you are welcome to say sorry.

... rather than what-he-heard...

Amidst thunderous applause, Ahmed Qureia opened the PA conference of August 4, 2009 with the words, "We have in our midst the hero Khalied Abu-Isbah, hero of the operation led by the Shahida (Martyr) Dalal Mughrabi. We salute him and welcome him." They were responsible for the 1978 coastal road bus hijacking and cold-blooded murder of 37 Israelis, including 12 children. This is the true face of the PA who criticize us. How do the Israelis writing peace-loving platitudes on this sight ignore the fact that our partner in negotiation, Abbas, congratulated the parents of the child murderer Kuntar upon his release from an Israeli prison (in a Hezbollah exchange for 3 dead Israeli soldiers that were murdered in captivity.)

They are colluding with Israel's enemies. AntiSemite governments should not be considered as Allies. Nor can they be depended in times of war.

For five days now on Haaretz we read posts on Goldstone report.Against and for. In those five days couple of hundreds were killed in Iraq and Afghanistan.Hunderd more in Pakistan.Thousand more in Africa.How many in Iran we will never know.Yet it doesn't seem to have any importence for our posters,so they will have five more days of Goldstone report,and an extra thousand dead civilian.

Starting with a human rights commission they controll. Then having the hide to decide how much Jewish blood is worth As General Dayan said long before the Arabists had the occupation excuse for their terror attacks " we cannot stop every attack but we can make it so expensive the Arabs will decide it is not worth it." Well it seems after 200 years of Arab murders of Jews it seems it is still regarded as some kind of right. It's not, live with it.

Every friend of Israel with even a modicrum of common sense has known from the start that Israel must appoint a judicial enquiry into the allegations and produce an independent report. How could Israel refuse to speak to a Judge who is a practising Jew and a Governor of Hebrew U.? Bibi has continued to compound the initial mistake, and the longer he does so the more damage is being done to Israel's standing.

Israelis need not waste their time in defending or justifying Israels chronic slaughter of Palestinian civilians. That sort of nonsense has gotten Israel to the point it is at today. Nobidy buys this stuff except other like minded Israelis. The very act of defending or justifying the slaughter of civilians simply provokes more outrage

cross examination outside Gaza. Veracity of the witnesses goes before any accusations based on their statements. Eleonore Roosevelt accepted all "witness" statements and came to conclusion that Stalin's GULAG is very humanistic organization. Judge Goldstone is probably very trusting man.

Esther #69: "with or without academe..she`s (Gabriela Shalev) disappointing." jarid khan #71: "Are her (same) qualifications any better than her compatriots in the UK and other European States? There are many better qualified people whom I am sure you would happily denigrate. Don`t be so sanctimonious." No need for an answer from eric (Gabriela is a hypocrite and has chutzpach) anymore. The three of you beat Shalev! Congratulations! Let's sum it up: - Gabriela Shalev is a hypocrite and talks chutzpach. - I am sactimonious and I happily denigrate UK and European States' Shalev's "compatriots"... - Bravo to you two!

...from the Mediterranean to the Jordan River. Esther is also branding Dr Jur. Gabriela Shalev as disappointing. I would reverse the qualifications.

is coming from Israel. Instead of addressing the fact that 1,000 civilians were killed in heavy-handed, indiscriminate attacks or that it committed a host of prima facie war crimes, all we get is the usual attempt to sweep it all under the carpet, blame everyone else and issue hollow threats. The problem is, everyone's heard it before, each time Israel goes on the rampage. The same self-serving narrative, the same ignoring and whitewashing of state war crimes, the same evasive diplomatic tactics. It is no longer convincing and nobody outside Israel is persuaded. If the Israeli body politic and public have half a brain, they will set up an independent judicial inquiry (if indeed such a thing is possible in modern Israel) NOW to examine in detail the Goldstone allegations before the issue inexorably gets to the International Criminal Court. Israel is so wedded to evasive sound and fury soundbites though, I wouldn't hold your breath awaiting any genuine judicial response.

...Ehud Barak and Netanyahu.

...Ehud Barak and Netanyahu.

It was a resounding, giagantic mistake for Israel not to have related to facts-on-the-ground-in-Gaza long ago... Israel has more than enough justification for fearing proxies of Iran and Hesbollah in Gaza, which alone gives us the justification for fierce opposition to anything coming from Hamas as this time... That perpetual threat apparently crazed us completely during the Gaza operation... the evidence for our crazed deeds is all too palpable... why in the h*ll can't we say SORRY for over-reacting ...?! ... there's no shame in reparations... a new reality could be introduced into this crazed world of ours...

Esther #69: "with or without academe..she`s disappointing." jarid khan #71: "Are her qualifications any better than her compatriots in the UK and other European States? There are many better qualified people whom I am sure you would happily denigrate. Don`t be so sanctimonious." No need for an answer from eric anymore. The three of you beat Shalev! Congratulations! Let's sum it up: - Shalev was, is and remains a hypocrite and talks chutzpach. - I am sactimonious and I happily denigrate UK and European States' Shalev's "compatriots"... - You two are OK.

After four years of war,American Marines and soldiers have become socialized to atrocity. Slowly returning veterans are giving us a new narrative of the war-one that exposes the vast enterprise of industrial slaughter unleashed in Iraq. Not much have changed since My-Lai.

... unavoidable for the opinionated... ... the flaws you mentioned could have been challenged much earlier, but unfortunately Israel flatly refused to relate to the report, before it became public property...

What chutzpah. What hypocrisy. From the mouth of the Israeli UN rep. The usual, 'look over there, not here!' cry of old. The pathetic and worn out claim that the Israeli rejectionist Gov wants only to get on with the business of peace. When all can see it simply wants to get on with business. That business entails continued building in East Jerusalem and the West Bank and the offer of some police uniforms for the most subservient PA quislings that can be bought. In other words, anything BUT peace.This is not new nor should it be allowed to pass unopposed as an excuse to wipe away the stain and stench of mass murder under the guise of self defence, which should follow these war criminals until their dying day, wherever they may travel. An excellent article was written days ago in the J.Post on Israeli exceptionalism as visited on Gaza and subsequent reactions to the Goldstone report. Here is a flavour : "This is the Israeli notion of a fair deal: We're entitled to do whatever the hell we want to the Palestinians because, by definition, whatever we do to them is self-defense. They, however, are not entitled to lift a finger against us because, by definition, whatever they do to us is terrorism. That's the way it's always been, that's the way it was in Operation Cast Lead. AND THERE are no limits on our right to self-defense. There is no such thing as "disproportionate." We can blockade Gaza, we can answer Kassams with F-16s and Apaches, we can take 100 eyes for an eye. We can deliberately destroy thousands of Gazan homes, the Gazan parliament, the Ministry of Justice, the Ministry of Interior, courthouses, the only Gazan flour plant, the main poultry farm, a sewage treatment plant, water wells and God knows what else. Deliberately." http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1254861893834&pagename=JPArticle/ShowFull

Seems michael does not know history. America yes took over the southwest part of america from Mexico, but we never ethnically cleansed the Mexicans from all the areas we took over. You on the other hand did with the Palestinians.

How would that help?People have already made up their mind.Israel can look into finding,but if they don't reach the conclusions that the world wants them to reach,no one will believe it. It is only the US Russia,China,the EU,that can investigate themselves and the results will be respected,and the Palestinians don't have to do even that.

It seem that it is you that have doubts about what Hamas did and doing in Gaza,and what they stand for.It is funny you don't feel the same way about Taliban.You'r "legalizing"any atrocities if they are committed by your country or Arabs.

Are her qualifications any better than her compatriots in the UK and other European States? There are many better qualified people whom I am sure you would happily denigrate. Don't be so sanctimonious.

Gabriela Shalev officially represents part of the most pressing Middle Eastern issue of all. No amount of Shakespeare and erudition in her speeches will banish that from eyes that saw by proxy because the official eyes were blindfolded. All Israel's most important diplomatic friends are telling it with varying degrees of tact that it needs to do a rethink about an independent investigation of the Gaza operation of December 2008/January 2009. The message just doesn't seem to be registering. One by one the friends are standing back. How long until we understand that Gaza - just another straw though it seemed to some - broke the camel's back?

I'm sure Mr. Madoff was a very educated man.....

Israel must maintain its truthful stance that this Goldstone document is a libel rag and ignore the Arab blocs latest outrage. Just one of the many dramas played out countless times the past sixty years in the UN circus.

The truth shall set you free

It is getting more and more obvious that with the exception of Israel and the "reactionary forces" in Washington D.C. (U.S. Congress, Christian Right, AIPAC, ADL etc.) everybody else in this world trusts the accuracy and fairness of Mr. Goldstone and his report. Most Western governements will insist that Hamas' conduct will also be debated at the UN, but they have no doubt that Israels conduct during operation "Cast Lead" was everything but "kosher". Time for Israel to do the right thing, start with a proper investigation and severly punish those found responsible for having commited war crimes (or "crimes against humanity"). That is the only way out of the "mouse-trap" for Israel.....

the commission imputes to the idf and political leadership the intent to oppress, terrorise and humiliate the gazans. this imputation of intent is not based on any fact, it is totally unproven and it imputes intent that cannot be proven. the commission by so doing refuses, without evidence, to accept that israel's operation was one of self defence. the commission refuses to accept the fact that israel's policy was based on military necessity of deterrence and self defence, and not an operation whose goal was to punish and humiliate. the commission's contension that israel is guilty of a policy of attacking wantonly the gaza population is not supported by any facts. had israel had such a policy, the casualty rates would have been considerably higher. the commission's refusal acknowledge that hamas played a key role in using its civilian population as human shields is a corolary to the commission's baseless claim that israel's policy was to terrorise and humiliate and attack gaz

... she's disappointing...

the report hugely extende its already considerable mandate to the internal policies of israel, including her immigration policies. the report makes the claim that israel's judiciary cannot be trusted without any supporting evidence and contrary to the excellent reputation of israel's judiciary's reputation for excellence. the report accepts all fact presented by gaza witnesses without corroborating evidence. the commission accepted that hamas operatives refused to testify without raising any objection. by contrast, the commission basically called the israeli defence and political establishment liars when they stated certain facts such as the fact that the bombing of a palestinian home was a mistake. goldstone claimed that it could not have been without any reason. the commission imputes reasons and intents to the idf and the israeli political leadership without supporting evidence.

Tinkie Either you are not from Israel or you have not served in the IDF, making you know nothing about how our soldiers are trained! Soldiers here do NOT get a course in hating the Arabs in their training, If so, I sure missed that course!

the hrc resolution which established the commission states that "it strongly condemns the ongoing military operation [in gaza] which has resulted in massive violations of human rights of the palestinian people" thus it is obvious that before any investigation, the hrc had arrived at a legal conclusion which was based neither in fact nor in law. all members of the commission expressed opinions on the gaza events before the start of investigations, one stating that "israel's actions amount to aggression, not self defence." hence, the mmembers of the commission expressed clear prejudice against israel before the start of their investigation. the mission took testimony for only a total of four days in gaza. it is simply physically impossible to investigate a three week complex operation in a mere three days. the commission accepted testimony from gaza witnesses without cross-examination or follow-up questions. the hamas party was heard exclusively and its testimony was unchalleng

the hrc resolution which established the commission states that "it strongly condemns the ongoing military operation [in gaza] which has resulted in massive violations of human rights of the palestinian people" thus it is obvious that before any investigation, the hrc had arrived at a legal conclusion which was based neither in fact nor in law. all members of the commission expressed opinions on the gaza events before the start of investigations, one stating that "israel's actions amount to aggression, not self defence." hence, the mmembers of the commission expressed clear prejudice against israel before the start of their investigation. the mission took testimony for only a total of four days in gaza. it is simply physically impossible to investigate a three week complex operation in a mere three days. the commission accepted testimony from gaza witnesses without cross-examination or follow-up questions. the hamas party was heard exclusively and its testimony was unchalleng

How do you investigate a stacked deck?

According to the Raw Data of Palestinian Center for Human Rights Out of 1414 names listed as killed in Gaza 19.2% are children and adolescents under the age of 17 60.3% are between ages 17 to 35 20.5% are over age 35 By the way, Palestinian Center for Human Rights CLEARLY STATES that some of the 17 year olds participated in the fighting! So Sam based on Palestinian official Raw Data If I am to give you an estimate, Then 60% of those casualties were combatants! P/S By the way Sam That is without taking into consideration, the 100 people (if not more) Hamas executed during the war!

"this statement by gabriela shalev the most boldly hypocritical comment i`ve seen in while: "for those of us who seek to resume the peace process in the middle east...how`s THAT for chutzpah?" (eric) Just google "Gabriela Shalev wiki", and compare her personal accomplishments and academical career with yourself. I suggest you draw 2 columns and write in the qualifications of both of you. I don't mind your adding in her column the words "hypocrit" and "chutzpach", but sign your contributions. Then compare the columns...

... of our own culpability...

... but I guess you can allow yourself that in Milwaukee...

... as far as one can see... ... Israel occupying Pal territory, in our cramped Middle Eastern neighborhood, can never be benign...

Dear HYPOCRITE: What the US did in Iraq and Afganistan is absolutely awful, but it has nothing to do with you who have ignored about 200 UN resolutions. I think you are so moral you should refuse to take US money as it is covered with blood. WE area asking YOU to STOP! In another place we ask the US. Stop trying to hide behind others like children and face your own repsonsibilities!

Ms Shalev: What more "pressing things" ? "For those of us who seek to resume the peace process in the Middle East,.." Didn't Lieberman - the dear man - say just the other day there will be no peace, no stop in settlements, etc. etc. You are really funny. "Out, damned spot". But rubbing your hands won't help.

... if even our most reliable allies are advising us to take-the-bull-by-the-horns and carry out our own genuine investigation of what went on in Gaza during those few fatal days... ... surely we are strong enough for that... ... the ostrich-act is not in our honor...

... published last month by ... Richard Goldstone. The key words: "The United States". That means Israel is getting its deserved retribution for the freezing rejection. With compliments from President Obama.

Allies ! We don't have any and why should we associate ourselves with investigating a report that is a lie ?

like they state publicly. it's too bad that america's "look the other way" policy of protecting israel so often leads to our ignoring the "truth"... and especially when the truth is so HARD to ignore that we turn right around and "press" it to investigate itself over the findings of what WE'VE dismissed as biased! the dismissal of the report by the u.s. is unfortunately a given; but the pressure on israel to conduct transparent investigations of its own actually SAYS something much different. and this statement by gabriela shalev the most boldly hypocritical comment i've seen in while: "for those of us who seek to resume the peace process in the middle east..." how's THAT for chutzpah?

If we are G"d's Choosen People, then we should not be killing kids, or women running with a white flag, or experimenting with new arsinal on people who cannot do anything (same scale) back. In addition, we have closed off the borders, cut off any possibility of having a normal life, and through that all, we keep saying that THEY are the terrorists. Something smells very fishy here. I do not blame all the Americans who really think that our government is doing the right thing. It's an emotional issue, and everything is better to accept than that our (Israeli) government consists of a bunch of criminal, greedy, and short sighted middle aged macho men, who use and exacerbate Jewish radicalism. Yes, responsibility should be taken. The damage is not only on the Palestinians, but also on our soldiers, whom are trained to hate and not to see the Palestinians as humans. This has gone too far, and how many excuses can you make???

Israel already completed through and comprehensive investigations. We all know -- and knew even before they were carried out -- that they would show that the IDF committed no wrong doing. How could they have, inasmuch as the IDF has the highest human rights standards in the world, and Israel is a nation noted for its scrupulous morality and sense of ethical responsibility? Seriously -- does anyone have any doubts about what happened at all?

Once again, Richard - tell Russia about occupation of Kaliningrad (formerly Koenigsberg, Germany) and USA about occupation of Arizona (formerly Mexico). Then wait for their reply. Who's stupid now ???

Dave, this would be a legitimate reason, if you could tell the same to Putin's Russia, which still occupies Kaliningrad (former Germany) and Obama's USA, which still occupies Arizona (former Mexico). But since you are not going to do it, you have no moral authority to critisize Israel.

The Palestinians started the fight, they deserved to get pounded. Too bad! Did they honestly think they were going to get an outpouring of sympathy? It's called "war." If you can't win, don't start! And ganging up on Israel won't bring about peace, getting rid of Hamas will. So stop spitting in the wind and do what's right.

Not that this bothers those who post in the pretence of outrage or concern for Gazan civilians.

then Hamas and Hezbollah would be shamed for using residential areas to launch terrorist activities against free societies such as Israel. It is tragically hilarious that Arabs and Muslims expect Israel to take better care of Gazan civilians than does the Hamas cowards who drag their very own people, Gazan women and children, to the front lines of their war of hatred against Israelis, while Hamas runs yellow and hides under hospitals. May all societies who sanction the use of terrorism against noncombatants continue to suffer the greater casualties! For there doesn't seem to be even one Islamic cleric who can turn the tide against public support among the Arab population for the use of child human shields by their "heroes". But maybe, someday, Arab women will turn on the "men" who hold their children hostage and treat as disposable. Just think what the Arab League or the UN Human Rights Council could accomplish if Arab children truly held a higher status than the cowardly Islamic terrorist in the Arab world and with posters here on Haaretz.

If the Goldstone Report is ignored by the world community at the insistence of the Israeli government, this will be seen by the Israelis as a green light to violate even more international laws at the expense of the Palestinians. Meanwhile the land theft will continue. Netanyahu once said concerning Muslims (not without some justification): "These people worship force." Considering his alliance with the neo-cons against Iraq and his eagerness to bomb Iran, I would have to say that Mr Netanyahu is the biggest worshipper of force in the entire Middle-East.

Israel, trying to hang on to legitimacy in the international arena is a JOKE. Israel will be brought to a accountability. If not? In 50 years Israel will be a shadow if itself or no more. Israel is self destructing. HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA, HAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!

Dear ex-Israeli, am happy you consider yourself that way and stay that way given your onesidedness. However, fyi shooting rockets at random in Israel by Hamas and co and Hezbollah is not only a war crime but also crime against humanity. There can not be any discussion about that. Independent how many people die. So..... what is your opinion about that? Let at least bring Hezbollah and Hamas to the ICC in the Hague to stop other terrorist organistions from thinking they can terrorise civilians. Enjoy your life outside Israel and hopefully never come back to the holy Jewish homeland.

^they are the worst of offenders when it came to the recent fighting in Gaza, and there is plenty of proof.

Find out what their agenda really is. I'm sick and tired of Arab countries siding with terrorist states like Iran and Syria and contributing nothing to world peace.

Well, I see Israel is feeling singled out by the UN. Of course, so did South Africa. And they had better grounds to complain. A UN body set up just to monitor their behaviour, complete ignoring of the UN rules about 'internal matters' when it came to the resolution after resolution against them. And the US supported them, actively at first, then passively, and finally covertly. But it didn't help. To paraphrase a saying that was popular here at one point IT'S THE OCCUPATION, STUPID

The IDF has responded to factual misstatements littered throughout the report and Israel has addressed fundamental legal blunders all to no avail--the jury is already in with the mandate itself and the very enablers of Hamas terrorism are leading the baying pack..

Take the time and actually read the report. It's long and not thrilling prose, but worth knowing what the whole thing says, not what some sleaze-bag politician says it maybe said. And what is so scary about Israel doing a real and transparent investigation of the allegations? Is Israel not to be trusted? Must Israel accept blindly what the IDF says without checking for itself? You guys come across like the opponents of the 9-11 Commission, ready to blame the 9-11 widows for their husbands' deaths, like Ann Coulter did.

Israel is now at the same level as Hamas. No more high ground. Moreover, Israel will now have to follow the timetable of the Goldstone follow up, a timetable which will be masterminded in Tehran.

Israel has lost all credibility after those two wars.

UK army didn't investigate hundreds of iraq abuses and their ambassador has the nerve to go after israel. They go half way around the world and shell village after village in iraq and afghanistan and torture and don't investigate themselves. UK wins the noble peace prize of hypocricy.

Cannot the allies of Israel deny reality when confronted by the evidence most carefully, and honestly combined by Judge Goldstone? Goldstone is a Zionist, a Jew, and yet his report is damning. And Israel has no answer but lies. How long should those who support Israel do harm to themselves? When does friendship require self-abuse? Why should ANY of those nations do harm to themselves because Israel is incapable of being honest? Israel is a small nation. Were it subjected to the same kinds of sanctions as Iran it would collapse into total depression. Yet it seems to think every nation in the world should debase itself to promote the cause of a nation which lacks honesty about itself and what it does. This is not a sane position. It is not a position which will eventually prevail. It benefits, for a short time, the men responsible for what the world deem atrocities, but should those atrocities become Israel's? I would hope Israel is better than Olmert, Barak and Netanyahu.

that he did not carry out a full investigation and "if this was a court of law, nothing would be proven." So why did he scum Israel? Time to check how much he got paid. He empowered the enemies of the Jewish people to continue their vile attacks on us and legitimized future worldwide hate crimes against us.

Any innocent party in this situation would welcome a credible investigation to clear its name. Israel's intransigence is Goldstone's most persuasive witness.

George Bush is gone, and so now there is a new sheriff. Obama wants to show he is an honest broker. He has no choice but to ask for an investigation. "Good guys" do that. Make of that what you will. It is tedious, insulting, and obviously exasperating, but a simple investigation will satisfy this pandering US administration. Hey, that's the price for inclusion.

You gotta be kidding me. Israel investigating itself for war crimes? I do not know which is more obsured, the request or the expectations that Israel will actually do it. They refused to even cooperate with the Goldstone committe. However, under pressure from the West, the will end up making the self investigation and will find some patsies that did not follow the IDF's "moral conduct" and they will be relieved of their duty and get assigned as the CEOs of some military industry.

There are plenty of good, decent people in the West Israel should put its case to and most of them would understand.

If Israel wanted peace, they would have halted their illegal settlement construction for the sake of peace. But they refused. That is the obstacle to peace, and that is why the peace process is dead.

It is a duty of international community to force Hamas to stop this inhuman practice that claimed lives of hundreds and hundreds of innocent Palestinians - children,elders and women included so do it. How many lives must be lost before the world treats Hamas as war criminals who have no respect for human lives as we saw during Cast Lead and Hamas/Fatah war?

It's high time that the UN takes seriously care about the crimes commiited Israel and Hamas.

for war crimes in Iraq and Afghanistan. Truman for atrocities of killing innocent in Japan and Germany during WW2. Kennedy for Vietnam. Lincoln for the Civil War. And that's American leaders, think of the tremendous amount of atrocities that have taken place in almost all of Africa, of Chinese cruelty against its own, of Russian crimes against Germany and other Soviet blocs of countries...yet so much focus on Israel. So much for fair judgement.

not once in any article that I have read so far in Haaretz, from the AP, as well as other sources, has anyone demanded of Hamas as much as they are demanding of Israel. No one is demanding the punishment of the Hamas leaders in Gaza. No one is threatining their exiled leaders with being sent to the ICC. Maybe perhaps a mention that 'both sides' need to look into the report, but Israel is still singled out.

about weapons supplied to Sri Lanka and allegedly used against the Tamil people.

American justice system should really look into findings of Usama Bin Ladin. Would that be appropriate?

Since when are charges of war crimes and crimes against humanity not a pressing issue? There may be some charges in the the report that can be dismissed or justified; but not all of them. For instance, I fail to see how Israel will ever be able to defend the IDF spending days bulldozing down thousands of wire mesh chicken coops and killing tens of thousands of egg laying chickens. Or properly explain why its most moral army did not allow the Red Cross to provide medical aid to injured civilians nor provide it themselves, a act far too reprehensible not to be thoroughly investigated. Israeli leaders apparently would like us to believe that unless they are allowed to destroy chickens (i.e Gaza's food supply) and deny civilians medical aid, that the IDF cannot possibly fight terrorism, and I believe they deserve an international investigation to explain their position.

...Israel did not. Had Israel cooperated it would have made it a whole lot easier to blow off. The longer Israel denies the facts in the report, and calls people "terrorists" who agree with the report, Israel will hemorrhage support. Almost everything in the reported was also reported as it happened here at Haaretz; Amira Haas is quoted and referred to. Those of us who actually read the articles here, and then go and read the other versions from JPost and Yediot, JTA, Maan, the Daily Star, Al-Jazeera, Alaribiya, Maariv, the US State Department, UN News Centre etc and to a lesser extent mainstream media in the US *did* already know what the Goldstone Report would likely contain. Those of you who spent that time ignoring reality are now going to be comforted by the cold reality of the rule of law.

It is long and wordy and unexciting prose. But you bothshould read the report. Make your judgments based on what it says, not what some politician says about it or Goldstone. What is being called for is an Israeli open and transparent investigation instead of the usual IDF whitewash. Do you fear it IDF actions won't stand up to an Israeli investigation?

"Western allies on Wednesday pressured Israel to launch credible investigations into UN allegations of possible war crimes by the Israel Defense Forces during the winter conflict in the Gaza Strip." - Haaretz Haaretz might not let us post citations from the report. Israel has avoided responding to any specifics, and launched a massive smear campaign, but many interested parties have read the report. They understand that the report cannot be dismissed with lies. "The United States, Britain and France all said Israel should look into findings published last month. . ." - Haaretz It will take more whitewash than is in all of Israel to hide that report. "Israel's UN ambassador, Gabriela Shalev, dismissed the report as a waste of the council's time, saying the 575-page document "favors and legitimizes terrorism." - ibid Which is a lie. Lies cannot answer the truth.

... so that would make Israel the "Axis" ? How far can you go with your headings?

Those Jews are trying to defend themselves against the brutal terrorist murderers of Hamas who murder their own people like members of Fatah. Same in nearly all Moslem countries whether in Lebanon where our fellow Christians are persecuted and have been murdered or in other Arab countries where Moslems freely murder their fellow Moslems. Why just today I read of another another number of Iraqis murdered and in the New York Times:"This week, a draft report by Iraq?s Human Rights Ministry said that from 2004 to 2008 - the period of the bloodiest sectarian strife - that 85,694 people had been killed and 147,000 wounded." And how many more everyday in the other Arab countries?

Merely nervous friends of convenience--given that the report is now publicized in a highly politicized sponsorship by friends of Hamas whereby all mention of Hamas is deleted, the "allies" are giving credence to a report whose ideological basis is the liquidation of Israel--hedging their bets. Goldstone routinely ignored clarifications put before him.

Cynic #2 was using irony. He is not pro-israel! An apology is due to him.

As soon as independent and objective prosecutors begin investigations as to why tens of thousands of innocent Afghans, Iraqis, and Pakistanis have been killed by NATO during its war on terror. As soon as someone investigates BHO and his senior adviser General Jones who stated quite clearly the US will continue to bomb civilians given the "US military will not fight with one hand toed behind its back while Islamists use civilians as human-shields!" A rather interesting double standard!

It's here: "For those of us who seek to resume the peace process in the Middle East, debating the Goldstone Report in the Security Council is but a tale 'full of sound and fury, signifying nothing'," Israel is claiming that it should be counted amongst those who "seek to resume the peace process". Israel is playing pretendies, because what it is really seeking is the uninterrupted expansion of Israeli colonies in the West Bank. That policy goal is completely at odds with "the peace process" unless, of course, the Israeli definition of "peace" is this: "the Pals sign a document that agrees that we can do what we want".

....report is accepted and respected everywhere around the world with the exception of Israel and the "reactionary forces" (U.S. Congress, Christian Right, ADL, AIPAC etc) in the U.S. Even many in the Jewish Diaspora believe into the credibility and fairness of Mr. Goldstone. Do the right thing, Israel, and investigate the crimes commited by parts of your army during operation "Cast Lead". It is an absolute necessity if you ever wanna reclaim the "moral highground" in the future....

I can't say for certain, but, it does seem that Jasper may be reflecting the present mindset of many jews and Israelis, viz. "If Goldstone prevails, there will be no world order at all." In other words, if the indiscriminate killing of innocent women and children, and the huge destruction of property in Gaza are confirmed, then "world order" collapses. Only by hiding facts and covering up the ghastly truth can our world be preserved.

Ms Shalev recites the words of the murderer Macbeth anxious to hide his crimes. Very telling indeed!

is represented by the very Ms Gabriela Shalev who points the finger any which way as long as it's not at her own solar plexus. Indeed, the Goldstone report legitimizes everything nasty from creepy crawlies to terror organizations. And you forgot to mention that it also poisons wells, gives you swine flu and pollutes the environment.

" Goldstone report diverting focus from pressing Mideast issues..." Me thinketh it is the other way around. The abassador wishes to divert focus from the Goldstone Report. David

So, the kind of world you want is where any nation can go ahead and kill a thousand civilians whenever a "rag tag bunch of criminals" appear in another country? I would wager a fair amount of money that most people consider that sort of world order somewhat less orderly than the current one.

HAMAS is not even mentioned in the UNHRC statements. Goldstone's report is exposed for what it is, a political sham and anti-Israel witch hunt. Par for the course for the UN.

... there will be no world order at all. Any rag tag bunch of criminals will be able to prosper while creating mayhem about them. Is this the kind of world we really want?

One more thing ( forgot to mention) , your arrogance is astonding . Talk about desecrating religious sites , what about Joseph's tomb and other Jewish and Christian religous sites that your people managed to desecrate , but I guess that doesn't count since it's non-moslem . So much for the "religion of peace and tolerance".

Who is in charge inside Israel? Netanyahu is off the microphone, Barak is talking, Liberman is doing his own thing, Livni has been silenced, Olmert going to jail.

Yes Mark, we all should take your advice and concentrate on everything except Israel's colonial/genocidal tendencies! I don't think so. The world was witness to what happened in Gaza; is witness to Israel's dismissal of international law and its culture of arrogance and avoidance of anything approaching a fair and just peace. The truth is Israel is ripping itself apart and people like you are aiding and abetting that process. The 'Laurel and Hardy' of Israeli politics, Netanyahu and Lieberman, have the lead role! Another fine mess!

Please tell me what land was stolen. Arab landlords sold land to a Jewish organization making a good profit. Arab nations started wars and lost. Along with that loss was land. SO PLEASE TELL ME WHAT LAND WAS STOLEN Un should have called special session when bombs fell in Israel suicide bombings killing and injury Israeli. But Jewish blood is cheap

Anything to divert attention away from Israel's colonialist occupation, apartheid and belligerent land grabbing techniques. Times have changed. World media and international communications, are not last century technology. The spotlight now focuses on exactly what Israel tries so hard to hide and justify. Israel has absolutely no one else to blame but itself. Why is it that Israel demands the right to protect itself, but denies the same right to the people it has invaded and treated so poorly?

The Palestinians have waited over 40 years for freedom. Does Shalev, the eminent lawyer, propose they stay staring at IDF gun barrels for another 40 years?

People often forget that times are changing rapidly, and so do points of view, including the one of how the west is looking at and treating Israel's interests.

What is the focus? For Israel the focus is not to reopen the dialog with the palestinians, until Today what Lieberman said all the times was that it would be difficult to reach and accord. Now up to Gabriela Shalav, the focus is and will be the peace in the region, so, this is a lie, it is just to tell those things in order to boycott the report. The report is not accusing trivial things, the report is describing the continuous violetions of human righst in the last military operation from both sides. But Israel is a country and not only a country but the country that is buildings settlements all the times in order to stop the processo of peace. Peace will not come if Israel and palestinians dont stop killing , denying that everybody are human beings.

the peace process in the Middle East, debating the Goldstone Report in the Security Council is but a tale 'full of sound and fury, signifying nothing'," as the Israeli UN ambassador stated, does not appear particularily credible. Beeing "footdragged" into the process seems to be a more accurate description. And since when did the Israeli want to be comapared with the values of Rwanda, Congo, Sudan, etc? The EU and most European countries used to place Israel valuewise at a peer level. Many Talkbackers seem to forget this ambition. So therefore, the legitimacy and equally importantly, the populistic acceptance of welcoming Israel into the EU-framework, the EUROPEAN SONGCONTEST, the NATO-sphere is dwindling by the day.

Someone, somewhere writes an article, even slightly critical of Israel, the 13 million Jews of the world go into a collective frenzy. What happened in Gaza on both sides was not a ?minor? event and should be investigated. Israel should accept the same standards it so loudly expects that others adhere to.

How do you expect to end terrorism unless you support the rule of law?

I agree. This problem should have been refered to the UN long time ago. The United States cannot act as an honest broker due to the exsistance of a huge number of Israeli lobbyist.

Peace ?! what kind of peace process does cover up for criminals of war such as barack and netanyahu !! shame !! it's clear that israel doesn't want peace

desecrate al aqsa! kill as many civilians as possible (because they outnumber you)!!....we know what zionist mean when talking about 'pressing ME issues'

I agree with Shalev, the world should concentrate on pressing issues such forcing Israel to permanently halt its settlement construction and begin the withdrawal of its forces from the Palestinian West Bank first as war crimes have no statute of limitations and can be dealt with later.

The Goldstone report may be a distraction, but most here never suggest what would be acceptable tactics for the Palestinians to achieve their self-determination. Some seem to suggest that if they just quit struggling for their own state it will somehow be handed to them on platter of some sort. No one really believes that. So what do you suggest as alternatives? Civil disobedience? Go to the UN--oh no, you've rejected that. Is it possible to be for Palestinian self-determination AND be for Israel's security? It's the only reasonable solution.

Just as the eternal Israeli government propaganda about 'more pressing Middle East issues' (Lebanon, Syria, Egypt, Iraq, now Iran) has the simple instrumental value of endlessly deferring the issue of when it is going to withdraw from the foreign land it now occupies.

Let's face it. We are committing war crimes. So let's stop fooling ourselves and the world. We should admit and correct our mistakes and better ourselves.

For once, just for once, could you possibly give some semblance of balance when expressing the US view in the UN? Calling on Israel to carry out an investigation when they have stated clearly they have no intention of doing so, is hypocracy. Supporting the propaganda position of Ambassador Shalev in stating that the report will advance terror when it clearly accuses Hamas as well as Israel of possible war crimes is unconscionable. Hold Israel to account for God's sake and do the just and honorable thing instead of cowering behind their platitudes and pathetic distortions. For once, hold this government to account. As for advances on the peace front, there are none! Where is your evidence to back up your claim that settlment activity or growth will cease? And whose land for a second state do you think the are settling? The position of the US is regrettable at best and unconscionable at worst.

The U.N. are the sponsors of radical Terrorisn. This has been going on for at least 3 decades ! Send in your views.

They've waited over 40 years for freedom and Israel doesn't care if the wait another 40. Israel has shown itself incapable of administering the West Bank fairly and incapable of negotiating in good fait over the territory's freedom. It's time for the UN to take the Kosovo option. Take the West Bank away from Israel and oversee a peaceful transition to independence for Palestine. Don't just stop with Goldstone.

As long as the current corrupt Fatah and Hamas groups are in power, there will be no peace with the Palestinian leadership more interested in attacks than negotiations. Goldstone would have been more effective demanding access to the Swiss and Cayman Island Banks to see where the tens of billions of dollars and euros were diverted by the Palestinian leadership than trying to restrain us from defending ourselves. Once the Palestinian people, and the world, see that their leaders are simply thieves in suits and kaffiyehs, then peace will come quickly with the imprisonment of their fascist narcissistic leaders. It worked in the Philippines, Uganda, and Nazi Germany (so sorry Axel), and it will work with the Palestinians.

Many Israeli soldiers who serve in the West bank or Gaza know that the information that came from Goldstone report is true, it is hard to admit. I know it was hard for me but we abuse the Palestinians beat them. Shalev can say what she say but it is nothing to do with the reality. Our army is capable to commit war crime like any other army in this world. Goldstone did us a favor so we can look at mirror for a change.

The total oppression of another people, includng men, women and children based strictly on ethnicity, race, or religion, and the atrocities committed upon them for decades, which denies them even that which many of us take for granted in our everyday lives? Of course, perfectly understandible that Israel would want attention to be diverted from that and to more "pressing" issues. I am sure that other inhumane oppressors in the past would have felt the same way.

You're the one doing the diverting. "Look somewhere else, Israel doesn't commit war crimes, Iran might build a bomb, innocent Palestinians didn' die in Gaza....blah blah" And while us stooopids are being "diverted" by Goldstone, Ms. Shalev has her hands in our pockets. Salaam/Shalom

Has the world lost its senses in even giving this woman an audience? How disgraceful and corrupt - to the bone.

trying to show the Goldstone Report is unimportant and distracts from the establishment of the Palestinian State. What's wrong are Israelis incapable of multi tasking?

What did you see in Iraq? What did you see in Afganistan? What did you see in Darfur? What did you see in Sderot? p.s. I define the Iraqis,Afghans,Darfurians,and Israelis as people.

Israel terminated 1400 Palestinian lives, with the most generous of estimates showing about 30% of those casualtie being combatants. Looks to me like this resolution censures terrorism.

....that as long as Israel continues to occupy another peoples land against the will of the whole Internat.community, the words "terror" and "self defense" coming from Israel will not be accepted by the rest of the world in the same way as they would be otherwise. Is that really so difficult to understand...??? Ehud Barak could have saved the money for those phone calls, most governements in Europe simply won't buy that Israeli argument anymore....

Do you remember the session about Tiananmen sqwer and how they vote? Do you remember the session about the Chinese ethnic cleansing of the people of Tibet?. or the session of Nato's crimes against humanity and the russians in Chechnia,and the Muslims in Sudan,and Somalia,Lebanon and Iran. Do you remember the session about Palestinians crimes in Gaza?I don't,so i guess non was pressing issues.Maybe a million died there,but not by Israel,and that is ok.

Israel is not looking at this from a positive point of view... If and when Israel is brought to justice for these crimes, so will the Hamas leadership, the Goldstone report named them as well. isn't that what Israel always wanted? Hamas out? why not do it within the limits of the law.

"For those of us who seek to resume the peace process in the Middle East..." Shalev said. Did the Security Council fall down laughing when she said this? But this is what happens when you have the power of the Jews, they actually believe their crap, and no one has the guts to laugh in their face. Or better yet, throw up.

The author's conclusions could not be more wrong. Terrorrism is an attack on civilian noncombatants, regardless of the ethnicity or religion of those killed or threatened. Gazans waged an idefensible series of attacks on Israeli over an 8 year period, killing roughly 25 Israelis. A measured, proportionate response was justified. However, the Goldstone Report, written by a Jewish Zionist, found that the IDF waged a ruthless battle against Gazan civilians, deliberately targeting them to punish them for electing Hamas. Cast Lead was timed and waged in a manner calculated to terrorize civilians, killing hundreds of them. Cast Lead was a massive terrorist operation, killing hundreds of innocent people as well as terrorists. If the Goldstone Report is not acted upon, it will be an endorsement of massive state terrorism. Unless war criminals on both sides are prosecuted, terrorism will, in effect, be condoned.

... call it by any other name, but the subject matter is the same... ... just get on with it!! that's the point...

speak from experience. Would that your voice could drown out the hubris coming from your former home. With the latter attitudes why should the US continue to help Israel?

It is people like you, with your extreme hubris and arrogance, who are pulling Israel closer and closer to world wide condemnation and scorn and, thus, isolation. If I had my way you would receive not one more of my tax dollars.

"An ordinarey person would think that an emergency UN session would be called when Gazan and Lebanese terrorist fire missiles into Israel territory". Yes he would,but there is nothing ordinary with the UN.Half of the UN is the one that support those terrorist,and they are no ordinary persons They find excuses to support Hizbollah and Hamas like they did when they have supported Saddam and Bin-Laden.The only one that doesn't get support is the people of Tibet that have chosen non violence,and that tells us what the UN stand for.Autocrats,dictators,and terror regimes

us with Goldstone Boldstone reports whatever pressing issue we might promise something we might change our mind do not get in our way

"An ordinary person would think that an emergency UN session would be called when Gazan and Lebanese terrorists fire missiles into Israeli territory, or because of the Iranian nuclear threat." These are wise words. An ordinary person can easily be lured into believing that the United Nations deals with large issues, involving nations and thus considers wars more important to discuss than regional terrorism.

As long as Israel settles the west bank it cedes all moral authority on mid east peace. "disputed" territory is only in some israeli minds and security does not require settlements.

1. Did you use Flechette against people - Yes or No? 2. Did you use White Phosphorus against people - Yes or No? p.s. I define Palestinians as people

Since the US is too cowardly to act, it needs to stand aside and let the UN take over control of the West Bank and Gaza and oversee the creation of a free Palestine, as it did with Kosovo.

Actually it is bringing back focus to Mideast issues.

the 10 commandments: 1.The security of Israel 2.The security of Israel 3.The security of Israel 4.The security of Israel 5.The security of Israel 6.The security of Israel 7.The security of Israel 8.The security of Israel 9.The security of Israel 10.The security of Israel And to hell with everybody else????

The Rwanda issues are more important. Don't look at Gaza, think about Rwanda and Somalia.

There must be some direction with all this chaos; and hopefully the direction will be peace. Accusing each other of war crimes doesn't solve anything...must have a goal.. Congressman Wexler resigning to work for Mid East Peace is great news from southern Florida. The window is still open for the next two years... This UN is only a diversion...