Ultra-Orthodox Jews deliver a population boom to the West Bank

I don't like the demographic war metaphor. However, "Palestinians" began it by boasting of the "Arab population bomb" which they claim will overwhelm Israel. In truth, Jews of faith are winning the demographic war on both sides of the "green line". This means two things. We will reclaim our ancestral lands of Judea, Samaria and ultimately Gaza. It also means that Jews of faith will vastly outnumber leftists and make Israel a true Jewish state. Leftists know this and it explains their preoccupation with doing as much damage as possible while they still can.

why do all these people think that loving Gd makes one a fanatic?

Don't muslems have four wives?

Don't muslem have four wives?

Is being duly noted in His great book in the sky. I advise the Nonharedim to stop.

The settlers would probably have to commit an act of terrorism - to kill people at random to create fear (i.e. terror) for a political goal - to be defined as terrorists. Only Baruch Goldstein fits that description and he's one person. I hope that answers your question.

If many of the comments here were said against any other people, they would be racist, but now they're ok because Haredim don't dress like you, don't act like you, don't have the same goals as you... last time I checked, that was called prejudice.

Maybe somebody can give me a reason? Why aren't ultra-Orthodox allowed to move freely to any neighborhood they like? Why aren't they allowed to wield power with votes? All the "secular elite" is leaving Israel at an alarming rate and assimilating in other countries (over 1 million already). If anything, the Haredim are ISRAEL's ONLY HOPE. I am not Haredi, nor do I even wear a kipa (yamulke), but I have a brother who is Haredi and I can tell you that it has broadened his mind tremendously. I don't know anybody else who has so much regard for every other person. I have also heard of Haredim who are trapped in that lifestyle although they don't want it. If the government wasn't so retarted, they'd facilitate moving between those lifstyles (usually towards non-Haredi) instead of viewing them like enemies.

Many of the talkbackers have ignored this: "Most of the ultra-Orthodox settlers - young couples or young families with numerous children - do not live in the West Bank for ideological reasons. They moved to the settlements due to the soaring real estate prices" And this: "Yankel is a teacher. His wife and sister-in-law found high-tech jobs, as have many ultra-Orthodox women in recent years."

Or do only jews have that right to designate someone a terrorist,If the sttlers remove palestinians from homes are they not terrorists,or does it follow the same logic of the reserve systems in canada and america,were the white europeans decide what is what.It must be heart warming for the palestinians seeing these fair skinned come from poland and russia,claiming their semetic birth right to the land.I guess the creater works in mysterious ways,he likes who he chooses and curses who he wants based on birth right.To be born a palestinin child in gaza and the west bank,knowing the jews and christians see you as second class people whose lives are worthless,but you could always become a christian that should bye you some time with christian americans,but not the zionist jews who are waiting for the creater to kill your first born in an act reminiscent of old.

'Not hatred, disgust" (Akiva Patysh for Hannah) Would you care to say why, exactly?

Let us clear a myth. Most of the Ultra-Orthodox people are sweet and decent people, and the children are a treasure. However a historical and critical review is overdue. The history of Judaism has ended with Spinoza. The other mistake is this inpatient one-way settlement policy. Palestinians can not return to the homes in Acre, Jerusalem, Lod, Ramle, Abu Tor, Katamon.... Israelis should not take up residence in the West Bank. Two wrongs can make it only worse.

No one stopped having kids because of the cutbacks. You're dreaming. Your children, if they survive high school here, are busy giving Israel a lousy name all over the world. As for Yonatan saying the Russians would have converted, calling someone a Jew doesn't make it so. You just want easy solutions to everything. They're goyim? No big deal, sprinkle a little holy water, call them Jews! Now my daughter can marry one of them and I don't have to be embarrassed that she married a Goy. If that's all it takes to be a Jew, why bother? Be a Chriatian, it's a hell of a lot easier, and the whole world doesn't hate you. Anyway, do what I say, look at every last complaint you have about the Haredim, and you'll see that the world has precisely those complaints about you. The same world you so desperately, and pathetically want to be a part of.

They have sex. Is that the worst thing you can say about them? Hands up here those who don't.

d: "If israel relinquishes Ariel and Tekoa for example, it will be easy to include these areas near jerusalem in a territorial exchange." And if the Palestinians don't agree? What then? MAKE them sign at gunpoint, perhaps? After all, why should they sign up to your suggestion? If they stick to their rights then they'll get *these* ex-jewish settlements - all nice and new and cozy - and they can always then turn to their Arab Israeli brethren and say "emmigrate here, we've got some lovely new appartments for you". Sweet revenge for the post-49 Ben Gurion tactics, so why shouldn't the Pals stick their heels in and insist on this? After all, it sounds like a much better deal to me....

so, the Ultra-Orthodox Jews are only doing what the Palestinians have been doing for the last 50 years,multiplying like rabbits,doesnt the Book of Psalms say "Happy is the Man whose quiver is full of them (children)"

God bless the aboriginal Jews of Judea!

Nice try. Not hatred,...disgust.

Palestinian life, would that be?

Sex, sex, and more sex..."these people have nothing to do but have sex....", as you say. Actually, they're living lives of study and regard for human life!

"Your hatred is nauseating, regards" Your hatred of Hannah isn't very pretty, either.

Well done! What G-D has blest the jewish people is the people themselves: their brains, their passions, their spiritual sensitiveness, their identity as the Chosen People, above all, their G-D. Mulitply, and G-D will use people, better than guns, missiles, nuclear. Now, go and boom in Jerusalem, don't forget Jerusalem, without her, other parts of Israel is meaningless. the pals are 'breeding like mosquitoes' themselves there, beware!!

Obviiously, the only Hebrew you know is "cut-and-paste". Regards.

Your hatred is nauseating. "regards."

...that as all the talking between Israel, Palestinians, America and the UN goes on, the West Bank settlements keep growing. Now it has been confirmed that their populations are growing faster than ever. No matter what is eventually decided, the numbers alone will guaranteee that the settlements will never be dismantled and the settlers returned to Israel proper.

Of course with generous support from Israel and from a generous American Jewish community, these people have nothing to do but have sex and steal and destroy Palestinian properties and harass Palestinians. Where did these people come from in any case? From Eastern Europe I guess by simply looking at them.

What about if they all stayed home then, in Noo Yawk or Chicago? Please don't excuse their outright and illegal theft of Palestinian land on their budgetary problems. I've heard many pathetic and ridiculous excuses for this latest zionist landtheft, but yours takes the cake.

What about several other commandments: 1. Thou shalt not kill; 2. Thou shalt not steal; 3. Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house. Is it such that you zionists just pick and choose between commandments? Your hypocrisy is nauseating.

The truth is , no matter where you decide to put your ambitiously sized swimming pool, it will be on land that the United States at one time or other, annexed! Dolt!

I guess the local drug stores don't sell any....they're very easy to use, ya know?

I personally do not follow the same rules, But you should have no fear from these people and the chi;dren. The children are not breed to kill. They are not like the Pal that use their children as weapons.

I love how this article talks about "annexation" as if it were some kind of legitimate legal procedure. How convenient. You know, I don't quite have enough room for the olympic-size swimming pool I've been planning, I think I'll just annex my neighbor's back yard.

What slanted writing with a blatant agenda. First Jews are living in Judea - Samaria. So. 2'nd: Why is haredim population growth compared to "natural" demographics of non-Orthodox in area? Is there some perversity to their procreation? 3'rd: Who cares why Jews move there. It's their right.4th: The writer implies there would be no problem with arabs/peace but for Orthodox living there. HA! 4'th: Were not many of the earlier Aliyah waves composed of sons/daughter of rabbis and cantors and Hebrew teachers? What's the problem Nadav Shragai? Seems it's with you. Or do you simply want judea -Smaria Judenfrei? If so have the honest integrity to say that.

i think its great.....too bad most of these people hate gay jews !

Secular Jews, get smart. Move to the USA. The alternative is in 20 years you will be in the army, and those with the high birth rate will not.

It is amazing and narrowminded of our supposed "Peace camp" to simply presume that the West Bank (Judea and Samaria) must be rendered Jew free (presumably to placate Arab intolerance) and until such time, kept as close as it was to the exact conditions in 1967. Time goes on and conditions change. The land as it was in 1967 is notthe same reality today. Palestinian intranigence doesn't dictate that the rest of the area freeze in time. Every time they have rejected peace, it SHOULD have a cost to them.

you guys keep judaism alive with your eternal optimism and faith in hashem.... keep up the good work.... let those who speak badly of you be like dust that gets blown away

I can't believe after the holocaust anyone would resent Jewish children. We have six million vacancies to fill up and the faster the better.

You are far more generous in your attitudes towards them, than they are to you.Regards

This is a very sad,sad state of affairs. Never in my wildest dreams could I imagine that, merely 60 years after the earth in Europe, and its CREMATORIA have gobbled up 6 Million Jews, can Jews--even secular ones--write in a prominent paper like "Haaretz," in such a disparaging manner! At the lowest common denominator, these are families--civilians--with beautiful, thriving children who settle these places, regardless of what is marked on a political map. How on earth, can we demand that other nations respect the Jewish Nation, WHEN THERE IS SO MUCH SINA'AT CHIN'AM??? IT BOGGLES THE MIND! MOSHIACH MUST BE HERE SOON! ALL THE SIGNS ARE THERE ALREADY!

I see, so now you are comparing living in Karmiel to Hevron or Schemm? Wrong, pal. I came up here to help settle the area with more Jews while living with the local Arab population who for the most part, are very happy to be living in Israel. While I applaud the woman in the article for working as a teacher, you can't seriously use that as an argument against the burden the Ultra-Orthodox are placing on Israeli society - Religiously, Spiritually, Economically, Security. Fahgettaboutit!

You wrote--- "just imagine if people suggested exporting Arabs! Heaven forfend!" It is obvious from your post, you do not visit this site very often, if ever. Regards

The way the state has pampered the haredim has left them with unreal expectations and us with a feeling of resentment. Whatever happens it's a good thing to remember that these are fellow Jews and most probably our own ancestors were similarly observant Jews or we wouldn't have lasted until the twenty-first century, religion intact. Personally, I think extreme observance is a strangely crippling way to live but it's their own business. We need to vote for change if that's what we want and not to blame these individuals for what law makers have done with our country and our money.

They have more kids than anyone else in the middle east from the statistics I have seen. Also, the statistics shows the Arab birthrate decreasing and the Jewish rate increasing in Israel. According to trends, Jews will pass Arabs (in ALL of Israel) in the next 15-20 years if the middle projection is correct. Personally, I have 3 kids and I am not done. It is a mitzvah to have as many kids as you can. All Jews should have as many kids as they can afford to love.

Than the Arabs. That's a fact. If Arabs have 5 kids, religious Jews often have 10. And while the Arab birthrate has been plummeting, the religious Jewish birthrate has not. This is part of why Jews are growing at a MUCH faster rate in Judea and Samaria than Arabs.

You presumptuous twit!.! עיניו בראשו is an expression meaning "to be clear-minded". As Michael Steiner said, better an impressionable Palestinian 10 year-old to take under your wing than a block-of-wood right-wing nut-bag. I love the Orthodox. I admire them. But that doesn't put them beyond criticism. Twit.

Ihf Haredim and Dati LeumiJews could out populate the Palestinians in 'Yosh', something that I am skeptical about, then we would gladly leave 'Krachei haYam' to the secularists. Isn't that where the Greeks used to live? My concern is that it won't happen.

A good thing with such a policy except for the obvious environmental and econical effects is that it will end the demographic threat. The birth levels will be even and many arabs will also probably choose to leave the country to escape such a policy. There will of course also be an ultra orthodox migration.

Actually, the PA fertility rates have fallen dramatically- as they have throughout the Islamic world. Only in Israel have they risen. Good times ahead!

THE MORE NOT TO SERVE IN THE ARMY. GOOD THE MORE THE MERRIER NOT TO SERVE IN THE ARMY. THEY SHOULD AT LEAST TRY TO SERVE IN THE ARMY WITH HESEDER RELIGIOUS UNITS IN THE ARMY.

but you miss the main point. Moving to a settlement is making ipso facto a political statement. If you do not make it yourself, others will do. In this story, there is no symmetry between Jews and Pals. Sure, an Arab does not violate Jewish right when he buys an appartment in Jerusalem, that is, WE make sure he does not. Hence, in both cases (an Arab buying an apt in Jerusalem or a Jew settling in Modiin Illit), WE and only WE decide. What is right, what is wrong, what is violation, what is not. The others have no say about this. This fact is too easily omitted. How long can we live on like this ? Admittedly, this is politics, but someone has to take responsibility. If we do not, who ? And yes, SUCH A COMMENT IMPLIES that I care for Jews.

and may it be G-d's willing that we multiply and grow million times than our enemies, and may it be G-d's willing that we will rebuild our homeland Eretz Israel!!! and let us say AMEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Let's not forget who leads the world in average birthrate. (hint: it's not Israeli Jews)

Thank you Haaretz, for finally getting it right in your front-page photo caption. The "settlers" and their towns are part of Israel. Not part of the PA. They are not on the table as bargaining chips. If the PA state should want crossings into Israel, jobs in Israel, access to Israeli ports, overflight rights, and a land passage between Gaza and the W. Bank, they had better think up something substantive to trade for this, or they'll get none of it. After, of course, they have paid reparations to Israelis for rocket attacks, sniper shootings and suicide bombings, and reimbursed Israel for the cost of constructing the security barrier made necassary by palestinian war crimes launched into Israel as their response to Oslo.

Again, my friends, the real question here is NOT haredim and is NOT birthrate. It is real hard politics. The state is making up this situation. Cf. my previous post #33. It is costing more and more to resist this situation (it is more expensible to move from Jerusalem to say Beit Shemesh, than to Modiin Illit , a.k.a. Kiriat Sefer), because this government, like others, is encouraging growth outside the green line. And the state offers strong incentives. Note, however, that Neturei Karta understood the situation properly, in this respect. Hamevin Yavin.

Oh my God, the Jews are at it again. Many years ago in the land of Egypt there was a Pharoah who also thought that the increase in population among the Jews posed a threat to his country. Don't they have anything better to o than to have babies?

I apologize if my comments were misunderstood. I in no way said, nor meant to imply that all seculars are bitter or hateful. I was directing my comments specifically to those talkbackers who ARE bitter and hateful. Most balanced people know the type of people i am referring to. I might also add- that it is true that i have never seen the bitter contempt mentioned spew from hareidim about anyone-religious, irreligious, jew or non-jew that seems to constantly spew from the mouths of certain talkbackers. Be well and keep chilled!

I don't see how it is violating Arab rights by young families-be them Jewish,Arab or Christian moving into certain areas. FOR ARGUMENTS SAKE-let us assume Modiin eilit happens to be in a country called palestine-how do young Jewish families living there violate Arab rights? I would not call it violating Jewish rights when a Christian or Arab buys an apartment in Tel aviv or Yaffa or Jerusalem. If you are Jewish- i would recommend you start caring more about your Jewish bretheren. It is commendable to care about all humans, however the moral thing is to help your brother and sister before helping strangers. If you are an Arab- obviously i understand why you would want to help your bretheren more and please ignore the above comment.

I see by reading the posts that 85% of the readers of this newspaper are Jewish self-haters or non-jewish Jew haters. Come on you people. You should realize that as long as there is disharmony amongst Jews, our (and yes, your)ememies will keep getting stronger and may even overcome us. Instead of spewing your hatred for religious Jews, try reaching out to one. And that goes the other way as well. The 15% of those readers who hate the secular way of life must not judge the seculars so harshly. Remember why we are in the exile we still suffer from. "Baseless hatred" Wake up Jews. Give up the hatred and rise up to being more tolerant of your brothers and sisters.

So what are leftists complaining about?

Good! In a peace deal it is imperative that the Palestinians be given Beitar Illit, Modiin Illit, Bnei Brak (Enclave), and North Jerusalem -- thereby solving Israel's demographic problem. Israel can continue to be a country of Secular and National Religious folks, and the Haredi taliban can consider to live in Eretz Israel, just not under awful Jewish rule. Hopefully the Palestinians will be as generous in benefits! Ha!

the Palestinian kid with eyes in his head or studying to be an engineer might one day stab or shoot you and the Charedi with his eyes in the sky will risk his life to rescue you regardless of your deep hatred to him. Streicher must be rolling in his grave.

How can the religious children multiply with such abandon. You're so right. I've never thought of it. Do you complain when others do it? Are you worried about the ecology or about how many Jews there will be in the world

well pointed out, the enterprise shown by the haredim is very impressive.

they do more than you and i do living in galut

i'm secular but why is this land called the West bank ? Why not NatWest Bank ? Doesnt sound very m.eastern to me. The correct name for this territory is Judea and samaria which means JEW and Guardian....both from the hebrew. The land was not the West Bank during the Brit mandate... so Jews have every right to live on what jews have every right to claim is Jewish land.

Any Jew should be able to live anywhere in Israel. My problem is that these people contribute very litle to the state of Israel.

Hi there, You wrote - "GREAT, THEY CAN LEECH OFF THE PALESTINIANS SOON - Inshallah" The same could be said for you. The Galil will be right behind the WB, as it was allocated to be part of the arab state in the 1947 partition plan. In addition, did you bother to read the article? The person being referred to is a teacher and his wife works in hi-tech - therefore not leeching off of anyone.

If israel relinquishes Ariel and Tekoa for example, it will be easy to include these areas near jerusalem in a territorial exchange.

I'm not a particularly observant Jew and I have a ton of bones to pick with the Hasidim in Israel over lots of issues, but what is the big deal about their community living in affordable housing in West Bank towns that are definitely going to be annexed to Israel anyway? The fact is, their population increase won't harm anyone as long as they build up, and not expand the current settlements. Every realistic peace plan on the table envisions a territory swap for existing settlements. Why does it matter how many people are living in the settlements to be annexed? To say it "hurts" the chances for peace is simply ignorant. And I applaud their birthrate, I just want them to have to serve the IDF and contribute more to the economy. In time, I hope they will.

Settlers are dangerous colonialists who should be treated like Hamas. They promise nothing but despair and conflict for Israel

So it should be...Replenishes the Jewry that were lost in the Holocaust, Pogroms & Inquistions... Israel can't remain static in it's population. A couple having two children only replace themselves... Arabs have many, multiply like rabbits and nary a comment about their flooding the area with their offspring... When parents are willing and able, let them produce as many offspring as they see fit.. It's not your business or mine to hop into bed with them and tell them what to do... The bedroom is one of the last remaining private places on the planet..

Interesting...

moshe would have us think that the haredim are all happy loving people and that seculars are bitter and hateful. So, I ask: who is it that throw rocks (and worse) at people just because they have different beliefs? and who is it that have all these bitter and violent internecine struggles over who succeeds who as the head of this or that obscure sect? I could cite more examples, but why bother.

The "Know nothing & comment a lot" movement is quite active in Houston... Never having been there, just writing endlessly without actual on hand experience... Tells the dentist how to fill his teeth, never having held a dental drill in his hand... Just another armchair general, playing with toy soldiers...

I dont think its just a matter of people hating the Charedim. I certainly do NOT have a problem with them as people in any way. My issue is the fact that everytime an Israeli or Jew moves into a settlement, it makes the whole situation for the Palestinians more difficult. I know you are just people simply trying to get on with your lives, but moving into a settlement, no matter what the reason, whether it be financial or ideological is taking that little bit more land away from a poeple who are not being given the HUMAN RIGHTS they deserve. So, this is ultimately a selfish act; so think about this Moshe, as your lives become better and flourish as you put it, it will be at the expense of someone whos life you will be making more miserable. I am sure that is not tolerated anywhere in the torah. This is not about hatred in my eyes, as I have none; and I am secular. This is causing a huge problem for Israel, the Palestinians and indirectly, the rest of the world so may G-D heal your soul.

What is really fascinating about this article is that the young charedi wives take jobs in high tech industies and are the bread winners for the families. The husbands peform odd jobs such as drivers or teachers in charedi schools while I suppose learning the rest of the day to supplement their wives income.

The nervousness of those intimidated by the statistics of a growing religious population (orthodox not ?ultra? orthodox) is a wonderful indicator for the survival of a vibrant Jewish Israel, including the secular Jews, as envisioned by the early Zionists. Those that feel Israel has become ?too Jewish? (e.g. the ?ultra? leftists and ?post-Zionist revisionists?), certainly have many secular countries in which to live a life of luxury (e.g. the likes of A. Burg). In these more ?advanced countries? devoid of any issues either religious or existential in nature, they and their children will be able to finally bury the fact they are Jewish, thus dispensing with the burden forced on them and their children as happened many a time throughout Jewish history. As for our Arab neighbors and the ?worried? Jewish apologists amongst us, they must realize that ?time does not stand still.? If they wish to rescue any semblance of their interests in Judea and Samaria then accommodating Jews, as well as Arabs, in a peaceful compromise is essential ? and sooner rather than later. Let?s not repeat the hard lessons of 1947.

you say "their happy and content way of life" well thats true, im sure they are happy, not having to go to work, sponging off the state, not paying taxes or going to the army. These people fight nail and tooth for every sheckel from the tax payers, while contributing nothing to society and denying other people their freedom and democracy !

All three of you make excellent points and bring much needed common sense. Yes, there are many pertinent mitzvot that the haredim chose to ignore at our expense,at the expense of the Jewish/Israeli people. And, Michael, good opint. Better a Palestinian kid with his eyes in his head than any ultra-right-wing nut-bag, with his eyes in the sky.

as a chiloni (secular) Jew from London...i agree with you 100% ... secular jews are expert when it comes to criticising the haredim .... i stand with the haredim on this, they are generally very good people.

First, there is NO peace possible without Jews living in Judea and Samaria. To force them to leave again is racist and not for peace, but for war. This is not an outcome that is acceptable for true peace. Remember, Jews were there first, before the Arabs and British kicked us out in the 20s. When the land was liberated we returned. Look at every other conflict in the world. There is no peace without Jews in Judea and Samaria. Second, whats wrong with Charedi being fruitful and multiplying? I dont live in Israel so I will only give minor opinions. I dont have to live with the pluses and minuses. However, I will say I am envious of all Israeli Jews being the majority instead of the minority like everywhere else in the world. While we may not get along perfectly with each other, we are all brothers and should try to. Should all Israelis serve in the IDF or national service? I say yes it makes sense, including all Charedi and Arabs, but again I dont live there.

I will not argue with any of your talkbacks simply because you are not interested in hearing any good concerning chareidim and so will not waste my time. However what i will say is this- You can rant your bitterness, hatred and contempt till you die but that won't make the slightest bit of difference to their happy and content way of life. Moreover,whilst you will die, taking with you your hatred;the torah Jew will continue to flourish and the torah will be here eternally. May G-d heal your souls and deep hatred.

Dear Yonatan, I think you missed the point. You live in a democratic country, there are democratic ways to express your objection to coercive practices. Hating people who live where affordable lodging is available and their having children is just not mentschlich. Don't you see it? It is hate that causes you to mix up things. Get rid of it! A brother

Moshele- you are such a blinded bigot, your type would fit well with the Archie Bunkers of the world. You stand opposite to most everything Judaism stands for and instead of applauding those who stick to their convictions and mitzvahs, you decry them! Grow up and realize there is a world of substance beyond your simplistic way of viewing the world. Your type of Jewry is destined to doom. Good by!

The population figure doesn't include the liberated parts of Jerusalem which the lunatic left and the arab fascists consider "occupied".

"Most of the ultra-Orthodox settlers - young couples or young families with numerous children - do not live in the West Bank for ideological reasons. They moved to the settlements due to the soaring real estate prices in the ultra-Orthodox neighborhoods of Jerusalem and Bnei Brak, which created an acute housing shortage. " But wait a minute. If West Bank is the only solution for young couples and families, then something's wrong here. The state -- and the way its budget is allocated -- is responsible for that situation. This is an example of political manipulation of haredim.

These Jews are providing the most valuable resource to the Jewish people- Jews! Thank you, and may HaShem bless!!!

"get a job pay taxes go to the army contribute to society let people have their democracy and freedom' Sorry to tell you, JS, but these commandments aren't written in the Torah, so the haredim don't consider such goyishe narrishkeit to be binding. They tend to forget certain inconvenient ancient Rabbinic dicta, such as the obligation of every father to teach his son a trade; or the interdiction on separating oneself from the rest of the (Jewish) public; or the wish expressed in the after-dinner Grace "not to make us dependent on the largesse of humankind, or on their loans but [only] on Your full, open and generous Hand, so that we may never be shamed or embarassed." [my translation] Unless the haredim think the tazpaying secular public is God, of course.

"Every one has a right the living his life as he feels right as long he doesn`t encroach or abuse the other person. Jewish and religous coercion isn`t a legitimate right in democratic Israel." Well, what do you think the haredim and the National Orthodox do in Israel if not encroach, abuse and coerece? Which is why I wouldn't mind seeing them all on the other side of the border. Moreover, these Jewish fundamentalists have much in common with the Muslim fundamentalists.

Are condemning the Arabs for their astronomic birthrates. Only the ultra-orthodox are condemned for having children. This is pure racism and hypocrocy. G-d bless the orthodox! They are settling the land and preventing the Arabs from swallowing up the Jews. The left wing Jews have one or two children...in New York and Los Angeles. BTW, I'm far from orthodox in my observance.

GREAT, THEY CAN LEECH OFF THE PALESTINIANS SOON - Inshallah

Being a scientist, you of courser know that "survival of the fittest" means passing on one's gnes and DNA to as many descendatns as possible, and in this, the haredim have an edge. On the other hand, there is also the principle of "natural selection". In this case, it means that haredi families with 5-6 (or 10) children cannot afford to live in the cities of Israel, and must therefore move to the West Bank. where housing is cheaper. This is comparable to, say, a herd of wild cattle being forced out of their natural habitat by lack of grazing-land or drying-up of water sources. Either they find a new, hospitable habitat or they perish.

The West Bank Haredi are such prolific breeders there is no practical reason why they cannot build their own defense force under the auspices of the IDF. In the future let them fight to protect their own land. They've done precious little so far.

Being human includes, among other thing, tolerance of those with differing, or no, religious beliefs. The haredim possess no such tolerance, are supremacist, and wish to force their way of life on other Jews (and have, to a great degree, succeeded). You, living in the US, have no conception of what it is to live here in Israel and encounter, every day, the restrictions imposed by Orthodox, fundamentalist religion. Enjoy your freedom of religion. We don't have any.

"I guess their love of fellow man only extends to Palestinians and other goyim, like the Russians." If it weren't for people like you, the vast majority of the Russian olim would have converted to Judaism by now. It is only the fanatic, intolerant, haredi rabbinate that has prevented this. And as for love of one's fellow man, you don't seem to possess much of it. Remember the Seven Noahhide Commandments? "Whoever sheds the blood of man, By man shall his blood be shed; For in His image Did God make man." I don't see the word Jew there; or Palestinian; or Russian. I see only the word "man". It would be a mitzvah to "export" you all to the West Bank. I'm sure yoy and the Hamas would getr along great together; you have much in common.

Once again, in case we forgot, we are reminded of how the orthodox work in concert with Palestinian terrorists to derail any possibility of Peace. I have to agree with some previous posts. Israel needs to give Palestinians control over some of these settlements and let the haredi negotiate their own safety with the PA and Hamas. It is time for rational Jews around the world to step up and say "not in our Israel". If they want to live in Palestinian controlled territory, let them live under their rules, just as Israeli arabs live under Israeli rule. Remember, these people are not terribly interested in the modern nation state of Israel that is capable of living amidst its real world neighbours. They are only interested in Moshiach and armageddon as their vision of biblical Israel. Jews must make a choice. Geo-politial reality vs. biblical theological adherence. Choice is pretty clear to me.

"would you rather have israel without charedi jews?" Yes, definitely. Less tax burden, less parasites, less religious coercion, more religious freedom, higher percentage of Israelis in the army, higher percentage of Israelis working. The less haredim, the better for the rest of us. "if that would be the case then in a few generations there would be no jews living in israel only palestinians." Your scare tactics won't work, hillel. The Duze birthrate is down to 2.3. The Christian Arab birthrate is down to 2.1. The Muslim Arab birthrate is falling as the level of income and education go up. (I remember when it was 7-8 children per woman). Want to make the Muslim Arab birthrate fall even more? Abolish child allowances for 4th child and above. It works, as has been demonstrated already with your haredim. Once the increased benefits for 4th child and above were abolished, your rabbis suddenly discovered that birth control was halakhically permissible.

And in addtion to "be fruitful and multiply" how about: get a job pay taxes go to the army contribute to society let people have their democracy and freedom

We don't hear much from Peace Now anymore, but the Peace Never Movement is alive, well and being subsidized by the Interior Ministry.

It is very enlightening to read the various comments of your readers in Haaretz. However it is incredulous that the jewish nation after going so many clamaties and catastrophes in the last decades and before , anyone who is a bit coginizant of Jewish history should have the capabilities of displaying such virulent anti semitic and hate messages geared toward his fellow brothers. Now if the name of thes people are Ahmad or Adolph , it would be justified but with names like Yonatan and Moishe ??? It is just unbelievable . Every one has a right the living his life as he feels right as long he doesn't encroach or abuse the other person. Jewish and religous coercion isn't a legitimate right in democratic Israel. Abusing someone else because of his beliefs , however is not acceptable. The downfall of the Jews was "Self hate" and disputes within the nation. this destroyed the temple. This brought catastrophes on the nation. Religous freedom should be used to respect and toleration of others

The IL government uses settlers to 'create facts on the ground' aimed at making parts of the West Bank permanent Israeli territory. This will not happen and the settlers have to leave sooner or later. The settlers are aware of that and are therefore also to blame for their own misfortune.

You are right on the money with that posting! Seeing last week's footage of mad settlers jumping up and down on the UN's car, I'm delighted that they are there and we are here.

You dont like seeing chareidim in your towns so be happy they have built their own. Or is it you dont like that their is clean and has the lowest crim figures in the world!!! are you jelous???

What a lovely bunch...building their ethnically and religiously pure communities.

The real estate in Tel Aviv and Jerusalem is very comparable to that in Hong Kong, London or Manhatten. There is no way a teacher or a bus driver with 5-10 kids could afford to live there. It doesnt matter whether you want or do not want to move to the territories. Often, there is no other choice.

these people are promissed one thing, and finally they and their families will be disappointed when demanded to return to within the "green line"

You are absolutely correct. AFAIC, all the 7aredim and mafda"lnikim can make their way to their beloved West Bank where they can worship their fetish, The Land(tm), from dawn to dusk. We, the rest of the State of Israel, should fully withdraw from there: militarily, financially, in terms of service provision and every other way. The datim have far more in common with 7amas than with the majority of Israel's citizens. I'll take some Palestinian kid who wants to study medicine or engineering over a religious nutcase any day. mls.lists@btinternet.com

I'm Jewish, no hareidi. I ask those that wrote these "clever" letters to look in the mirror and ask: Am I human? Am I a Jew? Why am so consumed with hatred? Have I lost my compass? It would do you much good! A brother

!פרו ורבו , be fruitful and multiply!

This is good, and ironic, since many of the Haredi rabbis are anti zionist, anti state, and anti liberation of the Land. However, their birth rate, which has been in the news lately, is a blessing for the people of Israel, the land of Israel,a nd the Torah of Israel!

About the only thing disgusting here is the comments to this article. MP Pick said it best - just imagine if people suggested exporting Arabs! Heaven forfend!

It is disgusting that this is going on. At a time when peace efforts are being stepped up these people seem hell bent on destroying the prospect. They dance with joy, but how many families will mourn when their children die in future wars? How many of their children claim exemptions from IDF service. How often do they come begging to us in the US for money. No wonder the Arabs are disgusted with Israel and don't believe Israel wants peace. As other American Jews are saying, as long as this continues, no more $ to Israel.

Nice to see our secular "brothers" advocating getting rid of Jews from Israel. Reminds me of WW II, when they let and encouraged killing of "the wrong kind of Jews" in Europe. I guess their love of fellow man only extends to Palestinians and other goyim, like the Russians. I'd love to see their reaction is someone advocated exporting Arabs.

This is like a spit in the face to those migrating to the West Bank. Israel allows them to settle in these Jewish areas only to one day expel them from their established businesses, loving homes and friendly neighbourhoods. How is this just? The Israeli government is providing false hope to those seeking a new beginning and a new future. For shame Israel.

would you rather have israel without charedi jews? if that would be the case then in a few generations there would be no jews living in israel only palestinians.

If we could keep up with the housing demand. The ultra-Orthodox, becaue of their political clout, has been able to get building permits. The rest of us can't under the present government. G-d willing, we will all be able to grow again at our natural pace in OUR land.

Personally, all the ultra-orthodox can go to the West Bank. They are Jews, but there is no common bond...their whole world outlook is much closer to that of Islamic fundamentalsts than to Jews I know and identify with. Frankly, we have much more in common with moderate, secular arabs. Let the fanatics live in the West Bank. Let Israel withdraw. Let these fanatics learn to live in peace with their palestinian neighbors.

In its effor to improve the Israeli balance of trade, the Israeli government should welcome this welcome export of Haredi population from the country, and must take every possible measure to encourage further increase in such exports. A special effort should be made to export surplus Haredi population from Jerusalem, Bnei Brak, Netanya and Beit Shemesh.