U.S. had emergency plan for attacking Israel in 1967

There is a lot of blowback here. Peace, commerce and honest friendship with all nations--entangling alliances with none. Americans have a lot in common with Jews we want to raise our children , worship as we choose and live in peace. It is the governments of Israel and the west which seek to divide peoples. Don't be fooled.

Thank you, PETERSM, We are a Republic, and there are times such as now that we unfortunately elect representatives that do not truly reflect the collective culture and conscience of our Nation. Mike C.

Clearly the arrangement between America and Israel has been a case of keep your friends close and your enemies closer. I would be willilng to wager my left testicle that had we invaded Israel in '67 we would be having NONE of the issues that are currently experiencing in the middle east today.

"though it seems that the Arabs subtituted was oil, more than terorrism" american. Wrong ! Oil belongs to House of Sa'aud. Thank G-d. Terorrism belongs to Arabs' exclusive assets, including the part Arabs are useing to kill each other.With plenty of that "reconciliation" is a pipe dream. Who wants to leave 'fools' paradise'.

Can I add to my 403# Only Peace is relevant.

It is amazing how some juggle with history ! "When you decide to take a chunk of another country "John Coady.Are we travellig in one history or stoping at different points in our journey ? You can't start with a point of your choice.There are many answers to your question qouted above. Shall we say that Jordan is Palestine that was taken from the Jews & the Palestinians?Or shall we go way back in history and said there was no Palestine and the entire land was Jewish land ?Or shall we come back in history; when the British decided to leave all the land as spoils of War;and that War is still going on and no Peace was signed yet, for the simple reason that the Palestinians Hamas wants the entire land ? This happend always in wars.Think of Kosovo and many other similer cases where borders under dispute. Save your breath, and read more history. Without Peace everything is irrelevent. One further point;you better tell the Paletinians,time is running out.

I saw nothing in your source about the Golan. and I saw one of Israel's foreign ministers Shlomo Ben Ami respond in a debate to the Dayan confession charge this way...."every nation is born in sin...". Maybe he reads it too. Whatever the source you will say it is false or anti-Israel. I wish you well in your endeavors to defend a country no one seems to like very much. But take some time off to smell the flowers.

When you decide to take a chunk of another country because it is fertile for farming, and run 150,000 people off it, then you say its irrelevant because it happened forty years ago, all the turmoil Israel causes takes on a whole new light...you folks have absolutely NO IDEA how this position looks to others. NONE.

Yidiot embellishes, NY Times has been caught so many times fabricating stories, they've long since lost their vaunted reputation for "All The News That's Fit to Print". Really surprised you didn't know about it. Most papers obtain their stories from AP, UP, Reuter's, when the story is problematic at it's sources, it continues to be accepted, newpapers are eager to fill their pages with news, although it may not be reliable or is suspect. Reuter's, as an example, printed photos that had been altered, were caught and had to fess up. Times had the infamous stories by "Mr. Glass". Most people that read Yidiot, do it for quick news that they don't really consider that reliable. It's a fun paper, not taken too seriously. You questioned the "Wikipedia Timelines", be good enough to pinpoint the errors, if you can. As you recall, I also sent a set from another source. Both clearly indicate when and where all incidents and wars started.

(a) The New York Times reprinted the article as did the Boston Globe. I don't like those papers but they are not rags. (b) There is nothing of substance about the Golan in your source. Nothing. Do a find on the word Golan and you will see. (c) Read what Canada's E.L.M. Burns and Sweden's Odd Bull said about Israeli behavior in the Golan. They were contemptuous of Israeli behavior. They were there. (d) The YEDIOT article was explicit and I have yet to hear a denial from Israel. (e) The USA is being dragged into a war with Islam so Israel can continue to behave like a bully. This will come to an end, I hope.

Thank you, Aharon! I've noted those books in my future reading index.

John Coady. I don't know if yours 394# is meant in reply to my post 376#. However from its subject matters it seems so. You can't go so back in history; for today's problems . Eshkol,Dayan etc.. are all of a different world. In 1948 Israel was ready to accept the UN resolutions and live 'side by side' with the Palestinians. Can that be relevent to day ? Things chang, in Israel & with its enemies. The conflict was intensified since Oslo. Since the simple minded Left brought Arafat&Co from their exile in Tunisia and dump them at the gate of Israel..that changes the battle ground. Add to that the return of the Russian Jews and others.. all these are facts on the ground and Israel should work on these facts today, including Hamas,Islamic fanatics,world terrorism Iran .. If that is what you can't work out John; ask yourself, you must be wrong..Israel is on a different battle ground today and that is the fact that matters for better and for worse.

Yediot is a scandal rag, big circulation, if you could read Hebrew you would realize it's similar to the sheets you can get at your supermarket checkout. Here's another source, hope you can understand what you read.http://www.mideastweb.org/timeline.htm

quote...Because the United States did not know what Israel was aiming at, despite declarations by Eshkol and by Defense Minister Moshe Dayan that Israel had NO territorial ambitions...unquote Oh gee, I guess Levi Eshkol must have gotten late information that the farmers in Northern Israel had JUST DISCOVERED all that good farmland across the Syrian border. Here is how my CIA source said the conversation went Hello?...Oh yes Uncle Sap...(rolls his eyes, smirks)... we just heard about the Golan from a delegation of farmers a few hours ago so I guess...well...ah...yes...I guess we DO have some territorial ambitions. "sound of strangled laughter in background" Uncle Sap: Oh is that why you can't bring yourself to declare where your borders are? Levi E: Ohhh nnnoooo,nooo we would never do that. We are still working on the maps. It's all decided....and sotto voce....BTW, is the check in the mail this month? "sound of MORE strangled laughter in background"

Stone Clark: "I say America stops sending Isreal the $3 billion / yr and see how long Isreal can keep the Arabs out of 'their' land." Actually, Israel can more than handle herself. I think the $3B number is like the similarly sized annual grant we give Egypt to stay off the streets. I.e., we are paying off the locals to keep hope alive and wait for final status negotiations.

Michael of Pitts: "when everything went to hell in a handbasket they stick togeather. Isrel needs america and america needs isreal period." Exactly! That's what makes all the Israeli venom so puzzling. Israel tolerates dissent, and that in itself is enough to make it worth defending. I know which side my bread is buttered on, and my lot is cast with Israel. Yet still they seem to hate me. All my reasonable phrasings, all my earnest to understand and help where I can; but I am nothing but a pig-dog because I'm not in the matrilineal club as defined by a book written by tribals of millenia past. I understand that religion programs folks into a comfortable pattern of reinforcing who's the biggest victim, who's the most organized, who's the hungriest, who's the best, who's the most pure... ...and those righteous Gentiles, "bless 'em"! Aren't they cute with all their analyzin' and thinkin! Cutest scum you ever saw.

Akram: "The Arabs greatest asset was the Cold War since Nasser; it is not there any more. The Arabs substituted the Cold War with Terorrism ! Talk about madness !" Interesting point. Though it seems what the Arabs substituted was Oil, more than Terrorism. Without our love for oil, we would't care about the terrorism all that much. The single best thing Israel could do for world peace would be to complete its pioneering work with non-oil, and non-nuclear, sources of fuel. Either that or desalinization. We must find a way to reconcile the three religions. Without that, the status quo shall continue until the sun goes nova.

Warmapril: "I am talking about dictating to sovereign nations to alter their agenda to conform to the best interests of the USA in general, and the US Industrial/Military Complex in Particular! Does this make sense to any of you out there?" Indeed. Likewise, we're getting a little tired of all the other nations acting as if their excreta don't stink. Does this make sense as well? All these other nations are celebrating the faults of the United States, while the sins of the other nations go completely unnoticed -- or at least automatically forgiven. Anti-Americans are justified. Americans are not. Does this make sense "out there?" I think it shouldn't, but of course it does, because only America deserves hatred and punishment.

Edward Harrington: "Our US leaders are weak willed, spineless, slugs who would sell out their own country, not to mention Israel if they thought it would serve their needs for a minute." This is unfortunately the case. Why are people on talkback so primitive in their points of view? We all understand that realpolitik prevents any common understanding of superficial "Facts on the Ground." Viva Israel, I say. It's just unfortunate how we all have to manipulate ourselves and each other to affirm our covenant with G-D. In a way, it very much explains how the three sons of Abraham can each believe only he is right.

Dror: "Did not america treat the lives of jewish refugees from germany as expendable? not in line with their policies?...I wish nothing but evil and ill will upon you arrogant, selfish, sick americans." Ha! Now if that isn't the pot calling the project Black. Clearly, there nothing we scum could ever do to please you, except comply with your every bidding, and give you our every penny, and our last drop of lifeblood. Any sin of our fathers is a blood libel upon us, their children. Obviously, you hype up the hypocrisy to troll us here on the Talkback.

You need to go and study HISTORY. Before 6th century there was NO such thing as PALASTINE. It was acutually called CANAAN LAND where the CANNANITES lived not the MUSLIMS. Israel was promised to the JEWS not the MUSLIMS. Your arguement is with GOD not anyone else. He promised them ISRAEL and they WILL have their land SEE EZEKIEL 36 where GOD says I WILL BRING YOU BACK INTO THE LAND I PROMISED YOUR FOREFATHERS. YOU people need to wake up!!!!

You tell me my knowledge is superficial...then you recommend WIKIPEDIA!??!!?!!!!Ha! Ha! That's a good one...WIKIPEDIA is open to any idiot who wants to put something in there. Here is where I got my data..General ELM Burns Canadian General and Chief of Staff of the United Nations Truce Supervision Organization He tells in great detail how the Israelis shafted the Syrians in the Golan. The book is called Between Arab and Israeli. Moshe Dayan told in great detail how bulldozers were used to antaganize Syrians until they shot at the bulldozers in frustration. Just Google "Dayan Yediot Golan Rami Tal". Hey YEDIOT is a big Israeli newspaper, not alJazeera. BTW, my gator says hello..he answers to Ariel.Always hungry.Now THAT'S FUNNY. Moshe may have talked too much..just like Israel PM Moshe Sharett whose diary contents confirmed just about every Arab complaint I ever heard about.Google "Sharett Sacred Terror" and get LOTS of history, but not the stuff we see in the "free" US media.

Your "knowledge" of the situation is superficial at best. May I suggest that you inform yourself of what's been going on for the past 80 years or so. Google "WIKIPEDIA'S - TIMELINES ARAB-ISRAEL CONFLICT". The situation isn't quite as simplistic as your making out from the safety of Florida. Keep in mind, the Golan HAD been in Syria's possession, she attacked and lost it. Same holds true when Arabs attacked Israel in 1948, 1929, 1936, 1956, 1973, 1967. They had attacked hoping to conquer Jewish land and lost their own in the process. I can't shed any tears. As the old saying goes, "Loser's Weepers"

I took the time to read two other items you have posted. You have either distorted of falsified so much that I will not bother with. You have ignored or did not understand the context that I was responding to, Dror 25 and 26. He was denigrating America and Americans. That is ok by you. But I will respond to your rant. My family has served in every major conflict since the civil war and I served in Vietnam. More so than what your family has done, if you can be believed. But this is irrelevant and is not then issue. If your country, Israel had a constitution and treated its minority as America threats its minorities they wouldn?t have the dilemmas that they are dealing with. I have only one country. My country is supporting the slaughter and oppression by Israel of the Palestinians. This is shameful. By the way, I have been to Israel and I have seen first hand how the military provokes the Arab population to justify retaliation. In this conflict, the Palestinian freedom fighters are more right than wrong. The Israeli?s look down their noses at Jews like you. They have an expression ?money is not blood.? Jews living abroad as you are, in safety and advocating a belligerent posture compounds their disdain. That is exactly what you are doing, posturing. Goodbye.

I don't know where to start?I know normality is worse in an abnormal world.Besides,the abscene words you used in your post,made it shamful to quote you. You seems to be an educated person from your post; but deep down,I am sorry to say,it dosen't show that.You said you are upset that your government 'pouring billions in the most hated country on Earth".But isn't the fact that your government is freely and democraticly elected?So,you must be unhappy with Democracy ?And I think & feel that people like you feel better when above the Law and decide who is to be 'hated' and who is to be 'loved'. You lost me Johny boy!I can't see sense in you. With respect you need help.I suggest you read less,and think more.It seems reading is not of much help to you.That also,must be a symptom of serious abnormality.As I said,the normal thing today is the abnormal which is hateing the Jewish State.It is normal Johny Boy;I shouldn't be much to worry about it. It is just a common bug.

Whenever people understand that you have access to more historical facts than the average schmuck in the US, they stop talking about the Middle East and Israel and start talking about YOU. ITS CALLED CHANGING THE SUBJECT WHEN PEOPLE HAVE THE GOODS ON YOU. YEDIOT AHARNOT SPILLED THE BEANS ABOUT THE REAL REASON FOR THE SEIZURE OF THE GOLAN in (i think) 1997. DAYAN LET IT ALL HANG OUT.I don't want American blood spilled so Israel can grow crops on Syrian land. Give back the Golan and the West Bank...seizing them brought Israel nothing except scorn and contempt (except for Uncle Sap and his pathetic media weasels.)Even my grandson knows there is a right or wrong way to move to a new neighborhood. Zionist speeches pre 1948 made it clear they were going to screw it up. Yes, people are going to shoot at you still. They want their houses back in Haifa and Jerusalem. Damn those anti-Semites. There is a gator on my dock right now, BTW. I leave him alone, he leaves me alone. Take a hint.

I am disheartened by the invective showered on Americans by our noble Israeli friends. Mr. Dror in particular seems angry and judgmental, in fact his posts smell strongly of Edomite ancestry. How can he call himself a Jew when he is full of such Edomic hate and anger for us poor Americans? True, we have offended him by shovelling trillions of dollars into his small country, but we hope to rectify that misdeed soon. We should be especially sorry for not accepting refugees, since it is well documented that there was originally an 11th Amendment in our Constitution's Bill of Rights that required the US Government to accept any refugees that might result from a Nazi Holocaust action 150 years in the future. Sadly, this amendment was accidentally erased when Benjamin Franklin dropped a cheeseburger on it, being too fat and decadent to hold onto it while singing rap songs. The next time I see a picture of old Ben I will punch it right in the nose, that'll teach him.

Having dealt with your disinformation, what you would say doesn't mean much at all. Instead of "Saying", try proving. An accurate source for your stats would be required. Links and the like. Ten years, two weeks, PROVE IT!!!

Stay clear of Miami, car jackers and thugs will get you if you aren't careful. Suggest you remove any car rental decals or license plates from your vehicle, you're a certain target.

You really should be concerned about walking around Center City at night without being mugged or shot. If Israel was running the country, Philly in particular, you wouldn't have to worry about having yourself car-jacked and robbed because that fellow needed some money to get a fix. This years bodycount, 140 or so, isn't it. Ask Mr. Street he has daily updated stats.

If you want to write about "ISRAEL", at least learn how to spell it. The 3 billion that U.S. grants to Israel is spent in the U.S. and employs U.S. workers. Virtually the same sum is given to Egypt, why not mention of that fact? Don't gloat over the Lebanon war, Hezbollah is very sorry they ever started it, the devestation inflicted on Lebanon will take years to heal. Israel has been keeping the hostile Arabs out since 1948. Don't worry too much about America sending Israel money, none of it is yours.

Since the beginning of time man has tried to take things away from other men.(land, money, power) No single civilization can trust another just like you can hardly trust the people running your own country. Power is usually acquired by the greedy and the power hungry, whether it be here in America or in Palestine or Pakistan. Every country that has been in a position of power has tried to expand that power. Don't fool yourselves into thinking we are any more evolved than cavemen. we just have bigger sticks.

Akram, please listen ..we (US) are fed up pouring billions into the most hated country on earth to allow Israeli leaders to postpone making hard decisions about land they stole and people they subjugated. Repeating slogans and fables over and over does not work any more. I can read Harry Truman's letters, Moshe Sharett's Diary, Moshe Dayan's speeches and UN documentation so I don't NEED to accept what pro-Israeli whores in our US media are afraid to talk about. And please don't comfort yourself with suspicions about anti-Semitism. Putting your head in the sand for 60 years isn't WORKING and is getting Americans KILLED. That's why I pay attention to Haaretz. I KNOW SOME ARABS ARE CRAZY now.CRAZY WITH RAGE ABOUT ISRAELI BEHAVIOR WITH US MONEY.

Harry makes the point that we have been embarassing Israel by concluding that they can't make it on their own. Pls, Israel accept my apologies as well and we'll try to do better.

Perhaps -- but in our army the average punishment seems to be about ten years imprisonment. In yours it seems to range from two weeks 'suspension' to a pat on the back. In point of fact, it was looking at US combat operations in Viet Nam produced the rule of thumb that more than 10% civilian fatalities was prima facie evidence that deliberate murder had occurred. Of course, the IDF usually runs well over that -- about 50%, I would say. One can read into that whatever one wishes. Perhaps the noble Viet Kong invariably wore uniforms and sent out heralds before engaging in battle.

Folks, get over it. Nations do NOT have friends, they have interests. Its called Realpolitic. Wake up!!! If interests coincide they are "friendly", but can differ. If interests are threatened they will jump to the other side. Watch what happens if Israel is existentially forced to go nuclear against Iran and threaten irradiating the oil fields. If the price of oil spikes to $100-120/barrel, the US will stop Israel, by force if need be. As for "peace" - the Arabs are not capable of that with each other so thinking there is a magic formula in some peace-niks mind or the UN is desparate thinking. Peace emerges when all sides are exhausted of war and both sides have a modicum of democracy. We have not reached that point. Please read Machiavelli, Sun Tzu.

In reference to the Esav/Edom/Christendom: - Edom is no longer a people, but an idea or set of traits - Descendants of Edom (from Esav) mized with Horites, from Seir & were diluted early on - Edomites scattered across Europe & parts of Asia long ago due to various pressures from Israel, Assyria, Persia & others of those time. - King David was believed to have driven them hard, some migrated to Europe and being better educated, more organized, became dominant in leadership classes there. - The dominance & arroagance of Edom, its perennial conflict with the Children of Jacob are the characteristics most often spoken of - hence there is a good match between European Christian history and persecution of the Jews. - America is a European derivative. - Excellent portrayals of the Edomite mindset and its impact on Israel can be found in 2 books with Feldheim Publishers: Redemption Unfolding, The Ishmaelite Exile. Both books are well written, Orthodox Jewish orientation

It now seems as though the truth of the Isreali strike against the USS Liberty was no accident as Israel learned that the USS Liberty was spying on Israel and giving info to the Arab enemies. Is the USA really a friend of Israel? Or is the OIL more important than the lives of Jews? OIL does not talk, it shouts!!! So, anyone who condemned Israel for the srike on USS Liberty needs to apologise to Israel for condemning Israel. AM YISROAL CHAI. LONG LIVE OUR BELOVED JEWISH STATE OF ISRAEL.

Thank you for the information. I'll look into it. I just recieved notice that the organization I was intending to work with in Israel has denied my request. They do not have a position open that meets my qualifications, etc. I know that G-d has called me to Israel from the time I was a very young girl. With the passing of my dear husband, may he rest in peace, He has opened the door for me to go, now. I trust G-d will guide me to the right group...or I may just go...and find the place when I get there. It may be the military after all!

If Edomites and Israel merged to prove they were really ap art of Israel, then you would think there should be no annemosity towards the US from the Israelies...we aere therefor brothers and our help should be welcome?????? If I'm going to live in Israel, I need to understand how some of the People think. Thank you for your clarity, and any other comments you may have.

Thank you for your explanation. I've heard that the 'Lost 10 Tribes of Israel' migrated to Europe so that the Europeans and now their decendants are all part of those 'Lost 10 Tribes'. That would include msot Americans as we are mostly decendants of Europe. This is the first time I've heard your explanation. In other words, the US flag represents the merging of Edomites red and Israel's blue and white. Some how I just can't make the connection. I do understand that Edom is often thought of as 'the world', just as Egypt is often thought to represent 'the world'. But when it comes to Bible prophecy, I tend to take the scriptures literally. Edom is what is now a part of Jordan if my memory serves me correctly. Any comments? Thanks

World war

As an American citizen I am horrified at the outrageous anti-Semitic contingency plan developed by the USA. Israel has been forced for far too long to accept aid from the USA. What have Americans ever done for Israel anyway? The Arab nations and terrorists will be the first to tell anyone that the USA has never done anything to help Israel. If the IDF hadn't been forced to use all those worthless American aircraft and other weaponry they could have bought some hardware that would give them superiority over the neighboring countries. The only possible solution to this terrible situation is for Israel to immediately tell the USA to keep its filthy money and end its military presence in the Middle East. That will show America where she stands! Please hurry and do this! Seriously! We need to be taught a lesson!

I say America stops sending Isreal the $3 billion / yr and see how long Isreal can keep the Arabs out of "their" land. Frack - the Isreali's coundn't defeat Hezbolla...

The same thing that is happening today...Israel would be running this country.

Contrary to what Mr Dror says, the US is just about to begin its greatest age. After 20 years of the Congress and the White House being "Occupied Territory", the harness is about to come off. The AIPAC crowd used up all of its political capital to get the US to do its bidding and invade Iraq, and most loyal Americans, especially conservatives (and Christians), are privately very very upset at being used. The time is ripe for all fair-minded non-fanatics to rally together and drive all rogue states (Israel included) toward a fair settlement of this trivial land squabble that has killed too many Americans (not to mention Jews and Arabs).

america and western europe are the house of isreal and isreal is judah+kane (good figs+ bad figs book jermiah) the tribes always fought among themselves, but when everything went to hell in a handbasket they stick togeather. Isrel needs america and america needs isreal period. yair davidy is a scholar on this issue go to brit-am.org for the truth

"Akram's is safe in London" John Coady. How much wrong you can be John.You forget the 7th of July last year? Nobody is safe anywhere and that is my point.Try to figure it out yourself. "Peace with the Arab can wait".Isn't that what is the massage from the Palestinians ?By their resistant to change..by their outrageous declarations from time to time. Tell me John, what was changed in the Palestinians attitude for the last 59 years?Isn't the same rhetoric ! Can you expect Peace with people like that ? "Wait & keep the land" what is the ulternative ? You didn't tell me John because there is no ulternative. "Now,every one in the world is wrong at the UN except Israel and the US" John Which problem the World &the UN solved all these years ?A bunch of politically motivated cynics. In their hand you think Israel should trust its future ? Right or Wrong the US and Israel have the best possible choice in a World full of mad dogs. Yes indeed remember to wear your flak Jacket.

"Peace with the Arab can wait.".... "Wait & Keep the Land". Finally...some humor is creeping into this thread. Congratulations. Now lets go back to flinging suggestions that everyone in the world is wrong at the UN except Israel and the US. Oh...one more thing ....remember to wear your flak jacket.

Israel, a heifar fattened to be killed and burned for ritual cleanning ash to purify the Americans!! There can be no friends in politics. May the Almighty sustain Isreal in all situations, leading her to the head of Nations.

Whose "History"? My History or the one that Arabs have with Rolling Hills of Green, Palestinians and Magic Djinn? Egypt was preparing to attack, just as were Jordan and Syria. Israel's strike was preemptive, because no one back then though that the Arabs would refrain from an attack on a day like Yom Kippur. Anyone who thinks they were not is more concerned with revisionism and propaganda than historical fact.

"Let us not today fling accusations at the murderers. What cause have we to complain about their fierce hatred to us? For eight years now, they sit in their refugee camps in Gaza, and before their eyes we turn into our homestead the land and villages in which they and their forefathers have lived."

Jack, where on earth do you get your information? Israel has never lost a battle ship her history. So, by your reasoning if we go to war against Iran, we can go ahead and sink all the ships in the Persian Gulf- all is fair in war right? By the way, Israel did loss a submarine right after the Liberty incident- I wonder what happened to it?

It is obvious that the "here" does not refer to Tverias. As for names: I do not engage in attempt to find out whether people are Jewish based on their names. I leave that exercise to anti-Semites. Personally, I look at biographies and accomplishments. All that said, since the board of directors is made up of some five people, even if they all have the same religion, it is impossible to claim that they had the power to bring about the entire Iraq war. Only an idiot would claim that.

Appreciating your post. Israel gaied a lot, both by contributing to end the Cold War and after the Cold War. The balance of power between Israel and and the Arab countries greatly improved for the benefit of Israel. The Arabs greatest asset was the Cold War since Nasser; it is not there any more. The Arabs substituted the Cold War with Terorrism ! Talk about madness !

In 1967 our military was bogged down in Viet Nam and protesters shouted "LBJ, how many children did you kill today?" . What was the chance of U.S. forces getting involved in a Middle East war in addition to the Viet Nam mess? At best, this story is about contingency plans of lower level people in the Pentagon.

To EM -299. Shalom. Nice to hear form you.Things have changed a lot in one year.Not only the summer war in Lebanon and the deterioration of the zeal in Jewish ethic in the achelon of power in Israel but more important; the duty upon each of us to face the uncertainty of the future. Israel needs more posative thinking. There is a lot of self criticism and soul searching which is unhelpful.Israel made it to its 60th year that should be refected on Israel confidence in its future. Peace with the Arab can wait. Olmert obsessed with all kinds of Peace plans;laughable ! Arabs fighting Arabs; how that could be time for Peace Talk with them ?! And with whom ? "Wait & Keep the Land".. That was my massage all of the last year. Keep well..

Marlene, the number of people interested enough to read about the Lavon affair is (sadly) very limited. Most Americans have no idea about what happened to Syrian farmers on the Golan either, but Canadian General E.L.M. Burns' book explains a lot. Goofy lazy people here in the US who accept simplistic fables about the ME then send their children off to war so Israeli politicians can play their land acquisition games must be prepared to deal with American bodybags offloaded at Dover AFB. Look up what Moshe Dayan said about the seizure of the Golan. Then hold your nose when you see our gutless Congressmen posture on our cable networks.

He was of Jewish extraction. He was one of the main architects of the Soviet action to crush the Hungarian Revolution of 1956. So, I guess all those Hungarian Jew-haters who claim the Soviet invasion to undermine the Hungarian revolution was one big Jewish conspiracy were justified.

Wouldn't it be nice if the US ceased their constant, overbearing meddling in the INTERNAL affairs of every country on the Planet? The "Founding Fathers" must be spinning in their graves over our wreckless foreign policy. I am not talking about coming to the aid of a besieged democracy; I am talking about dictating to sovereign nations to alter their agenda to conform to the best interests of the USA in general, and the US Industrial/Military Complex in Particular! Does this make sense to any of you out there?

and by definition is not clearly marked, certainly not from a distance. And you also failed to take into account the fact that even if the Liberty was spotted by Israeli pilots and logged over at the bases at some point, those pilots were in the midst of flying dozens of sorties. Flight logs get reset. The boards get wiped clean. Egyptian destroyers were known to be in the area and had sunk an Israeli battleship shortly beforehand. For America, it's peacetime in the Mediterranean. For Israel, it's total war.

"So the US was in the 6 day war. That is news. Was it,s Navy under Israeli command." That's funny. But as I said before, I prefer Ireland when the British Army was under the command of an Irishman, the Duke of Wellington.

Sheila, It is a well recognized belief that Esau represents the spirit of the Christian West. The logic is as follows: Many Romans were reportedly descended from Edomites, and some Noblemen apparently could trace direct kinship to Esau. After Constantine, this Edomite epithet was applied to all their spiritual heirs in Christendom. Esau?s banner sported a red hand after his prophesied ?strong hand? and red complexion (Edom (Adam) means ?red?), and may show up in my native Ulster flag as the ?Red Hand of Ulster?. The Edomite?s were to be identified as a strong nation (strong hand) that would frequently attempt to reclaim Jacob?s birthright. In so doing, they would declare themselves to be the ?true? Israel and would merge Edomite red with Israeli blue and white. Another characteristic was to be that the Edomite nations would be in ascendancy as Israel?s prosperity declined, but the opposite will be true when Israel finally comes into its own.

after reading about isreal's history it's a shame america didn't

Bravo, bravo!!

"Your attempt to claim that the project for american century is somehow led by jews is a despicable lie, and an attempt to smear jews. You disgust me beyond words." - Bird from Outerspace On Earth we don't use antennas on our head to connect to data bases. We don't have such antennas. You are lucky, but while on Earth you still wouldn't be able to use your antennas because our systems do not function on such low frequency. You do have to work a little harder. So please hit a computer, look up PNAC, and check who the founding members are. Then check the names of the director and board of directors. A substantial majority are Jews. These are the neocons every body here knows about. They were the leading theorists of the Iraq war. P.S. You might have confused the word PNAC with peanut. These are entirely different things. You eat a peanut while PNAC eats you.

Mixing the Lavon Affair to what happened to the USS Liberty doesn't prove anything. If such a standard was to be used then there is no honest country in the world. How many times have nationed lied to hid things? Even Arab countries and good old Russia. I would like to know your source to claim that the vessel was in international waters. Most of what I have read place the ship off the coast of the Sinai. The more likely reason that there has been no congressional investigation is to hid the fact that America was spying on Israel. With this new revalation the likelyhood that America was double crossing Israel becomes even more likely. America has never been even handed. She always bends over backwards to favor the Arabs. America just wants to avoid another holocaust.

It was investigated and dismissed. Haven't hear from you in a while, when did they let you out?

Since you were in the Navy, you would be considered "MACHAL" (overseas volunteer). They have a comprehensive website and office in NY. If you're interested you can contact "AMERICAN VETERANS OF ISRAEL" for details. Google either Machal or American Veterans of Israel. You should know that many non-jews fought alongside Jews in 1948-1949 and have continued the tradition ever since. One was Rev. John Grauel.

Ed, Amrerica loves Israel. B.S. Speak yor yourself. Israel is our Ally? I hear they have a bridge fore sale in Brooklyn. Ocean front property in Arizina.

I'm really surprised that you never heard of "Friendly Fire", the same kind of stuff that American planes pulled off when the killed a bunch of Canadian's in Iraq. That football player that was killed in Iraq, another example of what "Friendly Fire" can do. Happens in every war. Liberty was a "Spy Ship", it's mission was to spy on Israel & Egypt, in preparation for a possible attack on Israel if Israel conquered too much territory. If Liberty hadn't of been snooping it wouldn't have sustained the "Friendly" hits.

Bonnie, see post #272 regards

So explain to me why you continue to use the Lord your God's name in vain? I am quite puzzled by this.

on Moshe Rabbenu. He didn't have a GPS, made a left when he should have turned right, in the direction of the oil fields.

Either way I would have a quandry. Do I take my old Tzahal uniform and kovah pladah out of mothballs or put on my old G.I. fatigues. I would wind up fighting with myself. I would have to shlep two M-16's around, one on each shoulder, spare clips for one and machsaniot for the other. Musn't mix the ammo, one is kosher the other trefe. To avoid confusion, I could carry an old Czecki 98 on one shoulder. Better yet, I'll sit back and hope that nothing happens, watch TV instead.

You are ABSOLUTELY correct!

Yes, I believe you are right concerning the eventual attacks here on our own soil. Isreal is celebrating the 40th anniversary of the Unification of Jerusalem, and the 59th anniversary of the Statehood of Israel. Jesus said that "this generation would not pass away..." - referring to the budding of the fig tree representing Israel. I believe the Hebraic understanding of a 'generation' is either 40 years or 70 years.

Just for argument sake --What if the Liberty was spying on Israel while Israel was at war. Do you think the US had a right to spy on Israel without repercussions?

Your attempt to claim that the project for american century is somehow led by jews is a despicable lie, and an attempt to smear jews. You disgust me beyond words.

I would wish you would pray for us. we need those prayers more than you even realize! Thanks!

I think the problem here is that we don't differentiate between the secular government of the US/Israel and the religous Jew and what I call "true Christians". I KNOW the abominable history of Christianity towards Jews in every nation. But let us not forget that Jews have faired quite well here in the US because of our "Judeo/Christian" ethics and philosphy of freedom to worship as you please. I believe that 'Christians' who have turned on the Jewe in any nation or Era will answer to G-d - the one and only true G-d of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. Please remember, also, that many Gentiles gave their lives throughout history to rescue the Jews during their times of persecution. I believe that the final divider in G-d's eyes concerning the 'Christian' will be "individually, how did we treat the Jew among us?!!" Shalom to you and all, Sheila

As the old saying goes..."Sometimes it is better to sit and appear to be a fool than to open your mouth and BE one"

One other THOUGHT concerning your admonition to save our children from the secular progressives. YOU ARE ABSOLUTELY CORRECT!! I pray for my children and grandchildrern, and all our society for they have gone the way of Baal...I think worse than Sodam and Gamorah (excuse my spelling?). When I listened to religious Jews from the Knesset say that the best way we can suppport Israel is to bring a revival to our own country (understood - not the Jews but the gentiles)I have to agree wholeheartedly. It is the true Christian from all over the world who support Israel and come to your beloved country even during the Intifada - not worrying about their own safety, but wanting your People to know that YOU ARE NOT ALONE! I am leaving this summer to live in Israel for at least two years to provide volunteer help in anyway I can - at soup kitchens, hospitals, other relief organizations...maybe even going back into the IDF, and I'm a much older woman now! :-) -

Shalom, Dror! Thank you for responding to my previous comments. And, thank you for your insights. I am a Christian Zionist with many Jews for friends, both in Israel and in the US. I have never tried to persuade any of them to become "Christians" or "Messianic Jews". I believe that Christians are not to replace your faith, but rather we should learn form you as we worship the G-d of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. Even the Hebrew Scriptures indicate there was a place for Gentiles to worship in the Court of the Gentiles. We may have our differences concerning who Jesus is, but I do not let that stand in my way of supporting Israel, the Biblical Mandate and Covenant of G-d, and for that mattter, the People of the Land. You may be interested to know that I was a volunteer in the Israeli Navy back in the 1980's- stationed in Haifa.

So close and yet so far away, billions of barrels.

The USS Liberty was in international waters and Israel had no right to attack it. Unfortunately, after 40 years, no full-scale congressional investigation has been carried out although certainly demanded by many parties, and above all, the Liberty survivors. America cares for its military only according to who kills them. As long as it's Israel, it's apparently okay. Read the Lavon affair. It's all about how Israel planted spies in Egypt to try and bomb American and British targets to make it look like the Arabs were behind it.

"I guess Murphy`s Law doesn`t apply around Israel" - Jake Jake, that the excuse given by Israel at the time, and which was accepted by the US, was pathetically improbable is not a 'murphy'. Understand that this was a coordinated air-sea attack on a ship which was clearly marked and which was totally unlike any ship operated by Egypt. Apply Occam's Razor. The simplest explanation is the most likely. What the story leading to this forum raises is the possibility of 'why" which was the missing piece of the puzzle. Perhaps Israel did not know of the contingency plan. We do know that Levi Eshkol anguished before finally deciding to attack. That one of his great concerns was how the US would respond if Israel started a war.

The Liberty was attacked by forces who are no `allies` of the US. They killed our men, their lobbies of partisans in the US dragged us into Iraq and are desperately trying to get us into their fight with Iran, using their total control of our media. Note that the Zionists form up unquestioningly behind each other against the US and mock dead american sailors killed by Israeli attack, all the while demanding more of our money and suggesting that we be bled dry for all we are worth, till we are reduced (read #1) to nothing. PARASITES...americans stand behind your own, these are not your friends. that could have been your son or daughter or father on the Liberty.

At least get your facts straight- the USS Liberty did not sink. It limped its way after repeated attempts over many hours to sink it by the Israelis to safety. Why the American flag could not be seen by the Israelis is one question. But since you obviously don't know the basic facts of this incident your repeating of myths and probable made up stories about the US geiving the intelligence information to Israel's enemies shows from where you speak- ignorance.

Americans love Israel, but don't think for a minute that American politicians do. Our US leaders are weak willed, spineless, slugs who would sell out their own country, not to mention Israel if they thought it would serve their needs for a minute. Israel needs to watch their own backside. With oil being the lubrication of every industrial economy, I see more US politicians taking the side of the arabs to gain their favor.

Yea, Yea & with our luck ISRAEL would end up winning & have to support you lot. Not bloody likely MATE!

On December 17, 1987, the issue was officially closed by the two governments through an exchange of diplomatic notes. Israel also eventually paid nearly $13 million in humanitarian reparations to the United States and in compensation to the families of the victims. To your question; Have the Arabs paid for the USS Cole yet? Not to my knowledge, but it hasn't been 20 years yet. Don't they get the same repayment plan?

So the US was in the 6 day war. That is news. Was it,s Navy under Israeli command.

are the palestinians of today....remember esau married canaanite women and even ishmaelites.isaac did not want him to marry canaanites women,but he did it anyway.amelakites,herod the great,and even haman were descendants of esau.I'm sure a lot of edomites all around the world ,even in the usa.I am christian,believe in Jesus as my Messiah.some jews believe He hasn't come yet,but He already did.

"Argument went: Israels foreign policy has since its inception been expansionist. Purpose of `67 war was territorial gain, specifically capture of Sinai, West Bank and Golan." - tadchase Whom ever made the argument is ignorant of the facts. " Israeli defeat of Egyptians was so quick that war would have ended without capture of Golan." - tadchase Syria made a stupid mistake coming to the aid of Egypt. "Israel did not want Liberty monitoring its communications during its attack on Syria." - tadchase It seems clear that Israel didn't want the Liberty engaging in comint, elint, and signint during the war. "Syria was supposedly asking for peace." - tadchase They had a odd way of doing so, all they had to do was keep the peace in the first place. Syria chose to enter the war after Israel attacked Egypt. "Program said there was no possibility that Israel did not know the ship was US." - tadchase The only known case of the IDF employing blind pilots and torpedo boat skippers.

Interesting web site that Project for the New American Century, Tosefta. But rather than count names, I actually bothered to look at the research and stands it took. Indeed, much of the commentary on Iraq sounded an awful lot like what's going on today, though while they pushed for the removal of Saddam, there was nothing that said they should follow the Bush rule of going in with too few troops. Here's the funny thing though. The mid-east section of study is among the smallest of the group's research output. Much larger are the issues of NATO and Europe. In fact, what is truly remarkable, is that the same group voices the same concerns and similar strategies for ending the violence in the Balkans, begging with then President Clinton to oust Milosivich to protect the Kosovo Albanians from starvation and violence.

Many thing happen and it often takes many years, even a life time, to get to the facts. Tha is why you have historians digging through declassified papers and reconstructing what really dook place. Sometimes it turns out the the stronge was really weak and the weak was really stronger then what we thought. The USS Liberty was a spy ship that had no business being where it was. released tapes from the pilot indicate that he did not know it was an American vessel. I once heard a claim that not only was it spying on Israel, it was giving this intelligence to the British who was passing it to the Egyptians. Up until the vessel was sunk Israel was having problems in the Sinai. Afterwards things quickly improved. In hindsight Israel realized that they were being doublecrossed. However, while America know that Israel had reason to sink the vessel and Israel discovered what had happened, everyone wanted to patch things up and make nice. Now we suffer from conspiracy theories.

"Everyone knew Egypt had massed its forces to attack Israel." - EFox First we knew Egypt had not (satellites), nor had Egypt 'massed forces" to attack Israel. One need only follow the history of the war to know that. If there were massed forces on the Israeli border, how were they mysteriously transported back deep in Egypt where they were destroyed ? Why do folks on the psycho-right insist that their fantasies are reality?

To all the theoreticians here, I hope you take into account the fact that the Liberty was attacked in the afternoon of June 8, the last battle day on the Egyptian front. The result was a done deal, and Egypt agreed to a cease fire some 4 hours after the attack on the Liberty. Any possibility for a US intervention was way too late, so this could not have been related to the US military plan described in the article. For the conspiracy theorists who are trying to relate the incident to Israel's plans on Syria, it may be good to know that the IDF started the Golan operation the following morning, June 9th. What was gained by the attack on Liberty? Perhaps you can come up with some new improved theory. Incidentally, the need to rush was that a Security Council cease fire decision was near due to Egypt's request.

Akram, whatever one might think about the "Cold War", it was not my intention to give a general historical assessment of its positive and negative effects. I considered a narrow area only: The relationship between the US and Israel. That is all. When you look at Israeli history from this perspective, you will see a big change with the end of the cold war. World history does not revolve around the US-Israel axis, and I hope no historian look at it this way. But the effect on my limited subject is quite distinct.

This whole argument is the result of telling hundred of thousands of Palestinians in 1948 that they now had new political masters sanctioned by the UN, who were openly scornful of the Palestinian indigenous society. Most Americans are poorly informed about Israeli behavior, but this won't last forever. Israelis will never live in peace without massive changes in their approach to their neighbors.

"The US invading Iraq, partly as a neocon plan to dominate the world, with Israel urging it to do so and the Lobby encouraging the Congress to go along" - Tosefta "Is this something you concocted, or something you paraphrased from Mein Kampf?" - Jake Spending too much time in the sun, Jake? Do you know anything that is happening around you, or are you working to reinvent history? I leave this comment up so people will know where you are coming from. P.S. To learn about the Neocon plans, how about checking the PNAC (Project for the New American Century) website. On this occassion, how about trying to guess the ethnic origin of members, the director, crew, etc. (Clue: Look at names.) P.S. The Jewish Lobby is wider than AIPAC. You can start with Agudah and go down many other Jewish organizations which have a permanent lobbying operation in Washington.

Well thanks for your encouraging words. I agree with you. Except for the point about weapons to Iraq. The US and USSR and Europe did supply weapons to Saddam Hussein. Israel did not, because of a conscious decision in the leadership of Israel that Iran should prevail in that war, for 3 reasons: (1) Hope for resuming the alliance under the Shah, whereas Iraq was an active enemy of Israel since 1948. (2) A sizeable Jewish community in Iran, whereas almost none in Iraq. (3) The greater threat in the 80s to Israel from Saddam than the Ayatollahs. Only for reason (1) and the historical factors you mentioned, I believe there is not much chance of conflict between Israel and Iran today, beyond the war of words.

The Palestinians were NOT pushed off their land. All this land was part of Israel and was given to the Israelis by GOD himself. They did not won this land as only GOD owed the sacred lands of Israel. The Palestinians volutarially walked away from their homes with their children and went to live in the refugee camps just as the Bible said this would happen. Jordan didn't follow GODs obvious intention and didn't absorb them but made them live in the camps instead of letting them into the country. Jordan should just open their borders and grant them citizenship and this would take care of the problem. Since the Palistinians gave up their land it is illogical that they now want it back or to be compensated for it. Israel will never pay for this land as GOD gave it to them. The US should pay the Palistinians as it is more their problem as they keep trying to settle the issue but it is a problem only in their eyes. Jordan is the stubborn one.

I guess the middle of the 6-Day War qualifies as peace time.

though everyone takes it for granted the law applies every else, particularly when the friendly fire victims were blasted by the power of American friendship.

I have been enjoyed your post since the beginning Thank a lot please keep continue em

Since US Army is known to shoot and kill civilians (women and children) in Korea, Vietnam, Grenada, Panama, and now Iraq it looks like you have lots of criminals in the army.

Consider the context. Israel of pre-1967 was not an ally of the U.S., and had indeed proven itself capable of defiance of U.S. demands and wholly unconcerned with U.S. interests in the middle east. It proliferated despite its assurances to (the U.S. and U.N.) the contrary and it was in some measure involved in lavon affair. In sum, Israel had demonstrated a capability to pursue its own interests in a way that was inimical to the U.S. interests. In this, not much has changed with the passage of time. It is difficult to credit any part of the Israeli defense force with the incompetence it would take for the Liberty incident (repeated attacks) to be an accident. It strains credulity that the Israelis would have the intelligence resources to catch the gypos with their pants down, and yet be incapable of accurately identifying a clearly marked U.S. ship, which Israel knew was in the area, that had strayed a bit off course while serendipitously jamming american frequencies.

In 1948, 750,000 Palestinians were pushed out of their homes, off their land. They want their homes and their lands back. How can anyone blame them?

You sound very sincere. Let me tell you that YES, most observant jews see the west and christians as spiritual descendants of Esau or Edom. You worship a false god in the hellenistic greco-roman quasi judaic religion you belong to. You mean well, I know you do. But the fact remains that you are trying to subplant and replace Judaism with your belief in Jesus as the redeemer, messiah, son of God, so on and son. No amount of support or good will can convince the Jews to accept a false god and a false messiah in the greco roman demi god form he was marketed to the world as. Excuse my frankness, but I am sure you have heard this before, maybe more politely from the people who accepted your help. Sheila the best you can do now is to try not to let your children get sucked into what america has become. Fight your own fight against the secular progressives, give up on trying to convert the Jews, even though you say it is'nt your intention, deep down inside we really know it is.

The perpetrators of attacks against the USA: USS Cole: small band of terroists... US Embassy: which US embassy? Tanzania/Kenya Syria? ... yes terrorists... USS Liberty: A TERRORIST STATE was responsible i.e. ISRAEL. Can you canny the difference? By the way, what was the brief of the Israeli inquiry? the amount of money paid? and the wording of the apology? Twin Towers: Arabs need not pay for anything relating to their destruction... Bush & the NEOCONS were totally in control and had carefully planned it so that they could hit Iraq...

G-d promised Abraham that the Jewish people will be like stars in the heavens (reflecting the light of Torah) and like sand (can never destroy the Jews)....and G-d promised Abraham that Israel will belong to the Jews. So far, in every generation, many have tried to destroy us....But we are still here...What more proof do we need that G-d's words have been kept...Israel and the Jewish people will survive!

You have it right. It is a difficult concept to love someone with whom is trying to kill or convert you. However, it is what is demanded of us as Christians. It is also a scriptual based conclusion that Israel has the right to defend itself, and that all men have a right to defend their homes and beliefs. I hope that when the missle war starts in the Middle East (which I think will happen sooner than later), that Christians have the right to defend their homes when the sleeper cells kick off in the U. S. We had all better be ready, ecumenically and temporally, for the end(and redemption) is near for everyone.

Dror, I wish there were a way to calm your anger and hatred for the US. I must believe you are not a religious Jew because of the language you use. Most of the Jews I know who are religous, or even Reformed, both here and in Israel would not use such language. I pray for you that you will recieve Peace - Shalom - from the G-d of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. Lovingly and without judgement, Sheila

This should not surprise you. If you believe the Bible, you know that there will be a time when no nation will stand with Israel. the Knesset has recently recognized tht the 'real' supporters of Israel are the "Evangelical Christians" throughout the world. that's why they established the Knesset Christian Alliance Caucus (KCAC). NOTE: "Evangelical Christian" is a broad term used by the Knesset referring to those who believe in the Biblical Covenant of G-d with Israel. The term does not have the same connotation when used by the Western Media.

I take exception to your comments about US Presidential candidates not being able to mention the Palestinians. The Democratic members of our Congress are continuously mentioning the plight of the Palestinian and taking their side of the discussion. Granted, they are not all candidates for the Presidency, but the party's leadership that will/does back them certainly shows favoritism to the 'Palesinian Cause'.

Here's another argument I heard for Liberty attack (Military channel, maybe PBS - I don't remember). Argument went: Israels foreign policy has since its inception been expansionist. Purpose of '67 war was territorial gain, specifically capture of Sinai, West Bank and Golan. Israeli defeat of Egyptians was so quick that war would have ended without capture of Golan. Israel did not want Liberty monitoring its communications during its attack on Syria. Syria was supposedly asking for peace. Program said there was no possibility that Israel did not know the ship was US. Attack was intentional. Whadayathink?

Jake, you are right; I remember when the whole world turned a blind eye to saddam's atrocities, Israel sold weapons to Iran (as it did to Iraq). Nevertheless, we are grateful to the Israelis. The evil regime in Tehran is not a representative of the Iranian people. That clown (ahmadinejad) has no real power in Iran (in terms of foreign policy), so his barks are nothing but. The Iranian people have been friends of the Jews (we are natural allies in the Arabia). And we have proven that throughout history.

Daniel , you are laughing at destroying a city full of people? Amusing heh? Well, Beirut hasn,t been destroyed at all , it,s not on war range , So take your flourishing business to another place full of deaths and aftermath , Iraq for example.

Could not have said it better! i think it is becoming more and more clear that prophecy is unfolding before our very eyes. But, let us also remember that G-d loves all of His creation - He blessed the seed of Ishmeal, too. Interesting that as supporters of Israel, we sometimes forget that. I am a Christian Zionist but also want to show love and compassion to ALL the decendants of Abraham and Isaac. Jesus came first to the Jews, then to the Gentiles to include everyone in G-d's plan for eternal life with Him. Just a reminder :-)

CIVILLIAN or military casualties is "deflection". Americans have been killed all over the world by Islamists.

All the thousands of friendly fire incidents instigated by America are understable mistakes, by an Israeli incapacitation of an American ship just has to be a vast conspiracy or false flag operation against poor, innocent, unsuspecting Egypt. What a pathetic, cock-and-bull story. They say conspiracy theories are for the weak and feeble minded who simply refuse to accept Murphy's Law.

Dror, I'm new to this list so bear with me. I'm a Christian Ziionist who just returned from Israel and plan to return for at least two years to volunteer in various relief organizations. I believe in the Biblical Covenant of G-d with Israel. I've never heard of the comparison of the US or Western World with Edom. Is this a concept held by most observant Jews? I have always read the accounts of Ezekiel and other Prophetic books as literal. Thank you in advance for your response. Sheila

So Sorry!! My husband flew into Israel during the Yom Kippur War in '73. My mistake! But the story of his contact with the Russian pilot is true. Sheila

Interesting how this all worked out. My husband flew arms and bombs into Israel during the Six-Day War on behalf of the U.S. As he was flying over the Mediterrainian Sea he made eye contact with a Russian Mig Pilot flying into Egypt. For some levity, my husband's co-pilot keyed into the international radio frequency and contacted the pilot. He asked him if he was going down to Egypt "to see some of those Egyptian women?" The response he got back was not a nice one! So, we did support Israel and my husband has a medal presented by Moshe Dayan, himself, to prove it. Sheila

The USS Liberty incident involving Israeli military forces was a false flag operation being run by the Johnson White House on behalf of a powerful clique of international banking and oil interests. The goal of the attack was to sink the ship and leave no surviving witnesses. With no witnesses, the US President could then blame the Egyptian government for an unprovoked attack, thus inciting American public opinion to support an invasion of Egypt and permanent US/NATO military presense in the ME. Israel was an accomplice to the White House plan as it deemed a US/NATO military domination of Egypt desireable. But the USS Liberty plan failed. It wasn't until the 2003 invasion and balkinization of Iraq that a plan of the same species succeeded in establishing a permanent US/NATO military presense in the ME. The conquest of Iran and Syria should complete the campaign and allow formation of a new Arab superstate/economic zone dominated by "Roman" oil/banking entities through its GCC agents.

thank you for your post...you are so right. I am a christian Zionist just returned from Israel. I'm grateful to teh Knesset for establishing the Knesset Christian Alliance Caucus with representatives from all over the world who support the Biblical Covenant of G-d with Israel.

people who use the word "ilk" are obvious pseudo-intellectuals. Ilk this and ilk that. I am not concerned. America is on the path of self-destruction. There will be a heavy toll to pay for all your arrogance. I watch your news here in Israel. Your cultural and spiritual degradation and depravity gets worse day by day. You people are choking on your own fat. This is punishment enough for your twisted values. I don't pity you, I don't feel sorry for you, don't concern yourself with Israel. Lobby your government to distance itself from Israel and the jews. Again I wish nothing, but more misery upon you.

I suppose that your Jewish neighbors (including my father - a disabled WWII veteran, two of his best friends who were killed at Omaha Beach, and my uncle who died an early death resulting from wounds he received in Normandy), are not your fellow Americans. You make it pretty clear there are Americans and then there are Jews. Of course, the beauty of America is that there is a Constitution that keeps racist fools like you from creating a class of Untermenschen, so I can take pride in the many contributions of Jewish Americans to their country, and take pride in my country for allowing racist fools to speak, but protecting us all from their lunacy. My country doesn't support Israeli oppression, it supports Israel's right to negotiate an end to the occupation of others. My country doesn't support the slaughter of Palestinians, it supports the right of Israel to defend itself, which unfortunately involves a violent response to violence.

Alan, that's what a theif says when he gets cought red handed(he was joking)

It might surprise you to know, but the overwhelming success of the American airstrikes in Gulf Wars I (caused by an invasion of an Arab country by an Arab country) and II (caused by Haliburton?) were largely due to the intelligence information that Israel shared with the US after learning how to deal with the SAM missiles that had such a devastating effect during the Yom Kippur War. Had this not occurred, the cost to the US, in manpower and machinery lost, could have been catastrophic. Israel, as it happens, had its hospitals closed to all but emergency cases and had made extensive preparations, when the ground war was launched in 1991, for the express purpose of helping treat critically wounded Americans. I guess this was another sign of Jewish perfidy. And, when Israel recently wanted to talk to Syria, that was nixed by the Whitehouse in a blatant display of Israel domination as well. If there's a poodle here, it isn't the US.

Arabs decided to make Beirut again the Paris of the ME.. and they succeded.. this time turning Paris in flames... Ha ha ha... Nice joke ah!

Dror, you wrote: ?Noura the americans are self-serving pigs, but they hate you arabs more for your religion than they despise or distrust the jews whom they can manipulate.? Dror, I am sorry that Haarretz didn?t print your post. But console yourself with the knowledge that many Americans are aware of the Jewish opinions of them and their culture. Then again, there is a significant segment of our population that aren?t. I hope you will do all you can to make them aware. I take heart in the fact that America?s goal at that time was to ensure the territorial integrity of all countries in the region. I hope that one day we return to that position. Our support of Israel in its oppression and slaughter of Palestinians is immoral and unjustified. It is a stain on America?s history. In any case it appears that we were attempting to do the right think for all. Israel as you know it, today would not exist but for American military and economic aid. Without it, most likely Israeli?s would be living side by side with the Palestinians in abject poverty. I only wish more Jews were like Israel4life #37, America would be so much better off Please don?t feel that you have insulted me or my fellow Americans. You have actually described yourself in terms that are much more slanderous.

America may had a plan, as they do for every country, but Israel attacked America as they tried relentlessly to sink the USS Liberty. I am so tired of my government pandering to AIPAC and your (similar to stupid Bush and co) warlike and clueless government. Our Presidential candidates cannot even mention that the Palestinians are people...thats a big no-no. I do not care what your bible says, and what lands the Zionists think they are entitled to, I just want my country out of the situation. I read your comments on here. Please dont respond with your usual rabble about me being anti-semite. Im not, I have jewish and arab friends. Im certainly not anti-semite like most Israeli's posts are anti-American. You should be so lucky that my stupid government puts its neck out for you and squashes every UN measure against you and defends every move that you make against your neighbors. So enjoy your $3 billion+ a year so your settlers can steal more land.

It is so difficult to tell anymore. As an American I have to hope that the response from "Michigan" is the accurate one. There are SO MANY in the US who hold dearly to Israel and its historical significance in Christianity. It's also clear that, to date, God has worked incredibly--almost unbelievably--to make Israel victorious again and again against seemingly insurmountable odds. Yours is a blessed and tenacious nation. This may be a position of economics, as some have suggested, but that influence, as it may exist, is not remotely representative of the hope for and love of Israel that is dearly held in a real part of the hearts of so many here. God bless you. ara

I agree with what you say the US has always done practice plans, but a question has to be asked does the US have practice plans to attack the UK or even Mexico or Canada? Or do those countries or Israel have practice plans to attack the US?

AWWW Dror your true colors are surely shinning through today. You and others claim that GOD gave you the land of israel, and then you damn HIS name in your blastfamas statements. God has NOT returned anything to you and with your statements I doubt that he will give you much other than more heartache. The god of israel is the god of all people whether you and your ilk want to believe that or not.

I read your website because its full of jokes Heres another one, God created Israel and palesting to keep him from getting bored and to amuse himself, you wait for the future I expect absolute madness is his intent. Please keep God entertained ...

Joe right now our congress/government/media of the USA is FULL of zionist jews. Do the research. The israel lobby is stronger than ever before in our country. When politicans decided to set their sites on the presidents seat the first place they run to is AIPAC and pledge their undying support of israel. Why dont they run to the AMERICAN PUBLIC FIRST????? They run to the POWER FIRST not for the betterment of america but for the betterment of israel. Our home policies and needs should come before the needs of a foriegn nation. All the funds that is sent to israel daily/yearly sure could do alot for our economy and betterment of the pothethic situation we are in and falling deeper into.

Israelis shouldn't get too worked up over this revelation. The fact is the United States has an attack plan for virually every nation on the planet. It wouldn't surprize me if they have one for the U.K. & Canada as well. If an troublesome leader or group (Venezuala for instance) takes over in a certain country they may need to be removed.

The nerve of an american to accuse Israel of using americans and treating them as expendable. Corporate america owns you and the lives of your children. The lives and health of all americans is expendable in the eyes of corporate america and her corporate government. Product loyalty is pushed and marketed from cradle to grave. New borns are fed your McDonalds cheeseburgers and your internet porn, and you want to tell me that we are treating you as expendable. Your whole society is expendable. You are cattle feeding, you feed on one another like cannibals. Explode on your own fat, your greed, your indifference, your excuses. I wish nothing but evil and ill will upon you arrogant, selfish, sick americans.

To chgodmk whoever you are. You accuse us of treating american lives as if they were expendable? Let me ask you something then? Did not america treat the lives of jewish refugees from germany as expendable? not in line with their policies? Did not america treat the lives of thousands of israeli soldiers in the Yom Kippur war as expendable in order not to inflame the soviets, in order to maintain the world order? Does not america treat all Jews living in Israel as expendable?? believing that they have literally bought us and our lives?? we will take your support and we will then spit in your face. We are not going to be expendable pawns in your global domination game. We have our interests, get in our way and we will become SAMSON, the entire middle-east along with you shall collapse and burn. Who the hell do you think you are? believing that your goddamn money has bought Israel and the lives of her citizens. May the new Rome recieve further humbling, B'EZRAT HASHEM.

It was mentioned TWICE in the article - L. Weinstein had the details of the US plan. While we don't know who L. Weinstein was, it's a safe bet we know what he was... an Israeli spy. If that's so, it can well be Israel knew of the plan beforehand and BINGO, the USS Liberty is explained! And please, don't try to tell us Israel doesn't and didn't have spies in the US gov't!! After all, where does Dror get all of his wisdom?!

One has to wonder why such information would be released coincident with Israel's celebration of independence. There are political and economic forces at work in the world of black projects and secret agendas who are busy about creating a New World Order, as Bush #41 so publicly declared when he attacked Iraq in 1991. Now the spawn of that man, Bush #43, is the US President and he too is engaged in forceful transformations towards New World Order. I suspect the release of this military info is to publicly remind Israel's leaders who their real masters are. Olmert conducted Lebanon War #2 by the directions and international agenda of his NWO overseers, and not for the national interest of Israel. This intelligence release is a shot across the bow to tell the Israeli PM to stay on his assigned course or there could be severe consequences.

"further evidence that Israel had an expansionist agenda" Tarek 44# . Did you really believe that ? 'Expansionist' No . Fight the enemy in its enemy's ground, Yes. What else a small country like Israel can do ? Fighting its war in Tel Aviv ? You Arabs twist all facts, disfigures every truth, etc.. and you end up believing only lies.

"But Israel has no better friend than Uncle Suger" Mark L. 75% of the countries of the world 'have no better friend than Uncle Suger'. What do you say about that ? And that was befor the end of the Cold War and after the end of the Cold War. Do I need to give the list and the details ? After all what Uncles are all about ? Be realistic and truthful Mark L. You are started to be the Joker of this Talkback for the simple reason, you only Talk & never Back.

I agree 100% with you. In this deadly game of chess, there are 'pawns' that end up paying the price for some foreign ploicy agenda. I have my questions about Yigal Amir. The allegation is that he was a follower of Rabbi Meir Kahane but that is not true. The connections that Amir had and other facts just don't add up. This report on the US plan of attack in the 67 war dispels some of the conclusions that many thought were correct about the USS Liberty. The fact that the Johnston admin kept this under raps could be because of the US attack plans. And probably the reason the US did not retaliate is because the policy supported Israel yet did not want Israel to capture the west bank, so the US was caught off guard yet still needed Israel and thus accepted the situation and pushed for a diplomatic policy on the west bank that still exist today. Israel made the right move.

Can't see the forest for the trees? besides the propogandists on this thread ( you know who you are ) There is hardly a person who is willing to look at the whole picture, consider the time, and what was going on in the world in 67. I agree with the people that say this is a bunk artical by haaretz. I can however understand how some Israelis may look at this and gasp in fear that the U.S. would dare to make up a plan to attack Israel. None of us would be here if the U.S and U.S.S.R had gone toe to toe in 67 over this ME conflict. There had to be a plan to stop, by any means, it coming to that. The U.S. was stuck in vietnam, We only had one weapon left to fight the Russions with and for the sake of the whole world at the time, The U.S. would have attacked anyone so as not to have to fight Russia. Get over this dividing artical and rest assured that Israel is not alone. For the rest of you, keep underestimating Americas resolve, LMAO, thats a smart move.

dror is right 100% US stopped visas for refugees in ww2, did nothing to destroy the camps, and always turn on their friends jews or non jews alike...

Stop looking behind you and see what is right in front of you...blacks killing blacks in Africa by the hundreds of thousands....black muslims killing innocent black Christians...hacking them to death and those that survive are left to wander without protection or clothing left homeless and without a family. Worry about something you can rememdy....shout it from the mountains...call Jesse and Al and tell them to start doing something....shame on you.

I hope your not one of those Liberty Vets that rant and rave against Israel on the internet that I been seeing for years. I also sometimes am bitter by the way Israel was almost destroyed by the United States in 1973 when the US put pressure on Israel to hold back a preempted response. I was there and saw first hand all the soldiers being picked up on October 5th. Friends of mine were killed and wounded because of that and I was bitter for many years. My advice to you get a life. By the way I also live in Texas

Don't worry about the American Jews and their loyalty to the U.S. They are great citizens and contribute to the U.S. in many positive ways. What I would worry about if I was you....is what the Lebanese are doing dancing the dance of death with Hezbollah. You have alot more problems to worry about than worrying about the Jews of the U.S. and their loyalty. For your information they are loyal, very loyal to America.What about you...do you support Hezbollah?

Shame on you.... now we can all sit back and watch the islamo/fascists destroy France piece by piece. Will you enjoy watching this?

Apparently he falls under the spell of the idea that Jews are really wizards in disguise. We don't make errors, only evil plots, whether its with the USS Liberty, Gaza, or Lebanon. Apparently in the United States, only neo-cons follow such a policy. After all, the United States never made such errors of judgement during its multitude of conflicts. How silly of us to think so. That Afghani wedding party? Iranian 747? Lewis Tillman? the British troops and Canadians bombed by their allies? Pshaw. Either legitimate accidents brought about by the fog of war, or a secret diabolical right wing plot. Mark L can't fail.

""this makes clear how alone Israel was then. . ." - Pavel from somewhere If the US had not been a friend of Israel the attack on the Liberty would have been followed by devastating attacks upon Israel by the United States." Just like how America responded to the Cole? That America drew up plans does not mean much. That America did not help Israel deal with mutual Soviet Backed Enemies until half way through The Yom Kippur War on the other hand does. Israel could have won Vietnam.

The United States has and has had contingency plans for any scenario. I'm sure so does Israel. That's just part of living in the Real World. As for the USS Liberty, both sides messed up. I read the transcripts. It's inconclusive. The only thing for sure was that the Israeli Pilots didn't recognize that what they were shooting at was an American Ship. And Johnson made the decision not to retaliate. Israel took responsibility. It's over except for the survivors and Hanoi Dane's Crackpots.

Your method of presenting 'facts' is absurdity itself. I wish you can quote referencess to your 'would be facts' as other does. It will be of more benefit to those reading your postings. If you are trying to emulate the gospels; thanks but no thanks; we have the ten commandments given to us by a higher authority than yourself.. What you said about SS Liberty is crying for explanation "I have found the claim that the attack was an accident absured" .."Israel knew of the plan " Where are the facts that support your claim ? Aren't you shrouded with absurdity if you keep deny us the facts behind your statements.. as you always do ? Time you treat us like intelligent adults. Please.

To all those ignorant and arrogant commenters who actually think it is because the nations of the world,including the U.S. that keep Israel afloat - you can be assured that no nation, no power, but it is the G-D of Israel, the Creator, that keeps Israel alive and well and will do so for eternity. This is His promise. Unfortunately, the leadership, especially since Oslo, has been abominable and has not only cow-towed to the nations, but is actually the enemy within; but even they cannot succeed in undoing what Hashem has promised. Never to dispair, because the Redemption is near!

"Didn`t the IAF " a US ship in int`l waters in 1967 killing 37 US Naval personnel?" - Howard Most of the deaths came from the subsequent torpedo boat attack. " What kind of contingency plans do you think the US has to prevent Pakistan`s nuclear arsenal from falling into the wrong hands?" - Howard Given the mentality of the idiots of the Bush administration they have never thought of the possibility. "I don`t see how a war contingency plan from 1967 is dusted off today and has any relevance to the current situations." - Howard Did you notice that after Gates visited, Olmert suddenly reduced the Iranian nuke threat from imminent to possible? Someone leaked this story. Either the US did to let Israelis know that Israeli aggression might not be welcomed, or Israel did to let Israelis know that the US might not welcome the aggression Olmert had been preparing them for.

I forgot to mention - even though the US voted (as did many countries) in 1947 for Israeli independence, they did little to support it afterwards. Infact, the US did much to scuttle any growth Israel tried to obtain. Why are Israeli weapons so good, technology quite superior, and pilots among the best in the world? Pure survival perseverance...not luck. Check history, it was Czechoslovakia, France, Norway and Germany that sold to Israel, not the US. Only when the Soviets moved into the area did the US take notice. From the beginning, the US used Israel, just as it does other countries, and we use it back. In Washington, we call it Foreign Policy. Down in geriatric Florida, you call it parasitic. Speaking of parasitic, how is that Medicare payment of yours?

"this makes clear how alone Israel was then. . ." - Pavel from somewhere If the US had not been a friend of Israel the attack on the Liberty would have been followed by devastating attacks upon Israel by the United States.

"America is losing it`s prowess and respect all around the world." - Dror Sorry we have a government as foolishly run by the same kind of idiots as Israel has. "Why should Israel and Israelis continue cow towing to a fading power." - Dror Billions of dollars, that is why. Israel is a nation with almost twice the population of the Greater Houston Economic Area. You ready for Uncle Sugar to stop the money? Are you ready for Uncle Sugar to stop the flow of weapons and technology? Are you nuts? A better friend than Uncle Sam might well take Israel out to the wood shed for a talk about the future. But Israel has no better friend than Uncle Sugar.

Every one needs to realize that YES, the U.S. was a major proponent and in place to help Israel and support them, and for the most part is today. But the U.S. is not the big picture! it is Israel! every one with any intelligence knows that the U.S. cannot hold out for much longer in its sole (and I mean ONLY 1 in the world - other than the United Federation of Micronesia - which God bless them, is no powerhouse!) role as supporter of Israel. We too will one day line up against Israel. HELLO??? has anyone read Ezekiel?? do you really think it will not happen that ALL the nations will line up against Israel? time is running short, short for the support of the U.S. However, there is 1 way out. there is one who will never leave you and forsake you IF only you will humble yourselves and seek out his face. Try it, the rest of the world is just waiting.... not for yuor namesake, but HIS...

Ok, we get it. You hate Israel. Whatever. We hardly need your help as you believe but if it helps your diatribe, consider us a parasite. "We give technology" - not exactly true. Israel provides the US with a ton of new technology, including working directly with the US and 6 other Western countries on the latest F16 plane. "Billions in aid" - the same as the US gives to Egypt, Jordan, parts of Africa, much less than Palestinians - and yet, no calls for 'death to America' as in these other countries. Hmmm. I guess you like to be hated. "We veto at the UN" - the US vetos unfair items at the UN, like when the Arab bloc gangs up for an unfair vote. I think the world is more angry at the unfair wars and corruption at the World Bank much more. Perhaps the sun has burnt your brain a bit.

innovative,honest and with a generosity of spirit second to none. Israel could not wish for a better friend.

"Maybe this is the reason why we attacked the U.S. Liberty." - Mordechai from Jerusalem I think this is a correct analysis. One of the horrible 'truths' of intelligence is all you ever have are fragments and it may take forty or more years for the essential fragments to become clear.

"The USS Liberty affair is a mystery. If a plan like this did exist, then Israel most likely knew about it and was prepared." - Meir Weinstein Israel was ill prepared it turned out. The attack on the Liberty came at a time when the entire world understood that Israel attacked first in 1967. It also - we now know - when the US had decided that if Israel launched a war of aggression the US would stop it. There had to have been an immense "oh shit" moment when the Israeli government realized that it had just screwed up. Thank god that the US government didn't respond in kind. I was both overjoyed at Israel's victory in the Six Day War and outraged at the attack on the Liberty. I still have the same emotions about both. I now see that the victory of 1967 was a double edged sword for Israel. As for the Liberty, many good young men died in oily water because some fool made a mistake - though not the (not credible) one claimed at the time. It does not make their loss more acceptable

"Israel has always claimed that when it attacked the USS Liberty, an unarmed U.S Navy intelligence ship in the Med off the Sinai peninsula, it was a "tragic mistake." - Navy Vet 68 It was a tragic mistake. "Mistake my ass. Israel did it as a warning to the Gen. Conways in our armed forces who understood full well Israel`s war of aggression was aimed at taking the West Bank permanently." - Navy Vet Israel did not attack the West Bank until AFTER Jordan joined the war. "Some have forgotten those brave sailors machine-gunned in their life boats. I have not." - Navy Vet My thoughts run to the guys working intercept gear when a torpedo came through the side.

Mike are you familiar with the name Benny Morris and Schlomo ben-ami (neither can be accused of being Arab Apologists), read their books "Righteous Victims" and "Scars of War Wounds of Peace", and save yourself the embarrassment of making statements such as , 1. Israel has no territorial ambitions other than the (ever expanding --my words)settlements in the west Bank, Illegal by international Laws, ie 4th Geneva convention. 2. If the Palestinians wouls (your spelling)stop asking for compensation for the land they voluntarily walked away from to live in refugee camps for 50+ years. You have to be joking???. Have you ever studied any history of the ME at all. Try it. You may find it enlightening. I suppose that all makes me an "Anti Semite"?? right.

Big deal, the US military has a military contingancy plan to invade or support just about every country in the world. It only means that the military has a plan ready depending on the situation the government is in. Personally I dont like it, but it means nothing

Syria attacked Israel. Jordan attacked Israel. Egypt attacked Israel. I hope America is smarter than that.

I wouldn't worry too much about US war plans. The US probably has a plan for just about any possible situation. Start to worry if they actually implement the plan. Keep your powder AND your nuclear weapons dry. Jason

"USS Liberty was a spy ship and some have suggested that it was engaged in intelligence gathering during the 1967 war." - Ivan Such 'suggestion" is not necessary. That is what it was there for. "he USA did not want Israel to succeed too well and therefore perhaps they had a two stage plan." - Ivan The US wanted stability in the region. There were perhaps a few hundred Americans rooting for the Arabs. "In order to prevent Israel from attaining too great of a victory over Egypt they gave vital information obtained by the USS Liberty to the Egyptians." - Ivan Twaddle. "If that did not work then the second phase or the newly disclosed attack plan would then be deployed. " - Ivan Then why wasn't it? "Therefore, the attack on the USS Liberty may not have been an accident and may have been fully justified." - Ivan Apply Occam's razor. It wasn't an accident, and wasn't justified.

Everyone knew Egypt had massed its forces to attack Israel. America recognizes that its ship was in the wrong place at the wrong speed and had not clearly identified itself, as a spy ship can be expected to. Given the circumstances, Israel's quick response should be understandable. While America can be expected to make plans to attack, pretty much anyone no matter how friendly, the biggest possible mistake ANYONE can EVER make, would be to try and attack Israel.

". . . while in reality spying on Arab-Soviet communications, might have picked up Israeli ditto." - Equinox We were quite interested in Israeli communications.

"I don`t tend to believe the Israeli pilots." - Angela Actually pilots seldom give accurate identifications of ships. What is remarkable is that the ship was under surveillance for many hours before the attack and the best the Israeli government could come up with was that the Liberty was a ship which bore absolutely NO resemblance. "There were too many strange things that day like US jets taking off to answer the Liberty`s "mayday" and being called back twice." - Angela The situation from the US viewpoint was VERY confused. Let me add something here Angela. I have spoken with someone on the bridge of the Liberty that day. and our conversation drifted to that day, that place, and what happened.

I appreciate your posting of the NSA link. I had always considered that material to require more background information than the average Haaretz poster had. But given the 'conspiracy' theories I have seen floated on this board, any factual view from the US side might help the discussion. I have never felt the attack was an 'accident." I also recognized at the time the incredibly confused responses of both governments to what had happened. Mistakes happen. It is so very bad that it happened to Liberty. But it seems a different 'mistake' than was presented to the world.

THE REASON Pollard is in prison for so long is more than what we know. Just as The Kennedy Assasination was more tham what we knew. I have a feeling that The CIA knows more than they are willing to tell about both affairs...obviously they want Pollard to die in prison, just like they wanted Oswald to die in prison. Pollard was no Oswald. Yet, 'the company' does not care about such trite matters. It is more about potential fallout. Both were rebels with a cause. Lesson to be learned, DO NOT THINK THAT WORKING FOR THE GOVERNMENT IS WHAT THE RECRUITERS TELL YOU IT IS. AS CLINTON ONCE SAID, "IT DEPENDS WHAT THE MEANING OF 'IS' IS". THINK BEFORE YOU SIGN YOUR LIFE AWAY. FANCY JOB TITLES ARE CRAFTED AS TOOLS OF RECRUITMENT FOR THOSE IN NEED OF SELF ESTEEM BOOSTERS.

At the time every American held their breath and every govenor, senator, congressman and nearly everybody else was relieved and amazed when Israel won that war. President Johnson and future president Reagan were especially supportive. Only the state department had any any reservations. Except for one failed president, Jimmy Carter, a handfull of academics and some media...little has changed. Somehow, I am not very impressed that there was some oblique US plan to contain Israel in 1967. I think if Israel were to take off the gloves and transfer its Arab tormentors there would be little protest beyond the obligatory. When Israel blew Saddam's reactor pretty much the same thing.

Then it bring me to question that Israeli intelligent service was aware of American attack? And another question that, why Israel intelligent service did let the Egyptian army past easily from sues canal and have let that much casualties despite they could stop them? Was that American conspiracy too?

Right Jake there is no fairness - except injustice coming from a country of Gods chosen prople representing thenselves as the most moral and fair, a light unto the nations... is a big let down, don't you think?

Come on people. The U.S. is a true friend to Israel. Without American weaponry where would Israel be today? Give it a rest. I'm American, and I'm very pro-Israel. The U.S. Government gives around $10 million dollars a day to Israel. This so called leaked report is garbage. Did America ever attack Israel? NO, it did not. Do I think Israel should give away the West Bank and or Gaza? NO I do not. The West Bank and Gaza belong to Israel. Case closed...And yes, Israel does have a friend called the United States of America.

Every people has the right to cry its dead.. Jews are not the only ones to have suffered.. ther are of course the Amerindians, the africans ( conquests, and slavery) the gypsies, the Kurds, The Tutsis, etc etc You do not see us jews making fun of their suffering, we have a very long history and we know what it feels... what king of person are you to ridicule a crying Jew? do you also do that to African americans, or to navajos, mayas, etc ? As you took a the name of Tupac i gather you must feel some identification with the victims of Pizzaro and their descendents .. to them I say use the Jewish experience as guidance for endurance and rebirth do it possitivelly resurect the language ( I know Quechua is still spoken by few groups) and the cultural traditions, mix then construtively with modern culture.. be proud of your past but keep looking into the future.. and to you my hartless friend I say.. learn a bit of human decency.

What was USS LibertyUSS Liberty was operated and manned by the US Navy under operational control of the ... In 1982, Israel paid $6-million in compensation for this damage. ... www.ussliberty.org/theship.htm - 6k - Cached - Similar pages USS Liberty Inquiry - American Arguments: Prompt CompensationThe USS Liberty Inquiry ... The Payment of Compensation. Immediately following the incident, Israel indicated her willingness to pay compensation both to ... www.usslibertyinquiry.com/arguments/american/compensIsrael's attack (U.S.S. Liberty) a 'tragic mistake' [Free Republic]Foreign Affairs Extended News News Keywords: USS LIBERTY ATTACK ... Details of the Israeli compensation payments can be found in U.S. Department of State ... www.freerepublic.com/forum/a3b6eac3c24f2.htm - 316k - Cached - Similar pages ation.html - 5k - Cached - Similar pages

My first post didn't pass the censor. The US opposed the 1956 war. We supported the government of Jordan. The existence of contingency plans which would have as their goal stopping Israel from territorial expansion should not be a surprise. What I wondered about in the prior attempt at posting was if Israel knew of those plans. That would go a long way to explaining why the USS Liberty was attacked. Israel apologized, and the US accepted. I consider the incident closed. My views are conflicting. I have profound interest in elint, sigint, and comint, activities and everyone should understand that the cold war saw many involved in such activities die under mysterious circumstances. While I accept the Israeli apology, I have found the claim that the attack was an accident absurd. If Israel knew of the plans it would explain both the absurd attempt to claim that Egypt attacked Israel and the attempt to sink the Liberty.

We had plans for Iraq. They involved 400,000 troops for the invasion and an occupation lasting 5 years. Those plans did not fit the fantasies of the Bush administration and were junked for plans that involved 150,000 troops, an occupation lasting weeks, cheering Iraqi's and a great victory march through Baghdad.

'Indeed, a plan to attack did exist, it just was not activated or taken up to higher levels. You would have loved to be on such a mission. Such a disappointment.' Leaving aside my preferences, I find your remark amazing. Try actually reading the articles in question: there's nothing at all to substantiate the headline. In the meantime, let me sell you some stock...maybe some real estate.

Could this be the reason Israel carried out a terrorist strike on the unarmed USS Liberty? I guess after torpedoing, strafing the ship with 40mm shells, machine gunning the life rafts, killing 34 US service and wounding another 173 that showed Lyndon Johnson just where he stood in the Middle East. This attack wasn't a mistake, it lasted 15 minutes longer than the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor. Considering the billons U.S. taxpayers have given over Israel's 59 year history it is more than disengenuous to read the anti-American posts. Talk about ungreatful. Maybe these ingrates would prefer the U.S. to dust off that war plan.....

Israel-- Has proven itself to be a rogue country in so many different ways, so many: continual land theft (& don't try to point to leaving Gaza since this has not/does not negate Israel's overall behavior/plan); extensive & egregious human/civil rights abuses; violations of international law & conventions (always, as standard procedure in Palestine; and most recently in Lebanon, the use of cluster bombs in civilian areas)...etc., etc., etc. So-- I'm wondering...what/where is our (the U.S.') plan now? Can We-- Let Israel continue to cause problems for the Palestinians, Arabs & certain Muslims...& the rest of the world? Most Of The World-- Is at threat of attack (& several places have been attacked), because Israel refuses to make peace with the Palestinians, etc. And--in the meantime--it couples this refusal...with egregious abuse & mistreatment of the Palestinians (& recently Lebanon). We, The World-- Shouldn't be placed at risk because of Israel's stupidity!

This is the most anti-Semetic US action I have ever heard of or want to know about. To think that anything Israel does should be countered by their best-friends is something that makes me cringe. Israel has no teritorial ambitions other than the settlements in the West Bank and Gaza. Israel gave back all the captured lands except the Golan Heights. If the Palestinians wouls stop asking for compensation for the land they voluntarily walked away from to live in the refugee camps for 50+ years now, then this whole issue would be gone and ther would be no more wars or terorism. Jordan needs to absorb the Palestinians and pay for the cost without Israeli assistance. Any action taken by the IDF is defensive in nature and is designed to protect Israel's right to exist. No country has the right to question what the Israelis do as doing so only shows their anti-Semitic leanings.

Israel is a parasite country to the US. We give technology, billions in aid, and veto things at the UN thus increasing anger towards us. And some Israelis on here have the nerve to be ANGRY at the US? When you spy and sell American technology to China! I would love to see how long you'd last without Papa Bear comforting you.

They will not be forgotten. When are they going to pay compensation?

Check out that great Peter Sellers movie, "The Mouse That Roared." A mythical European nations tries to declare war on the US solely to get conquered and receive foreign aid.

Perhaps this is why no one knew who was really winning until the third day. When it was discovered that Israel was winning everyone called for a cease fire, just like every other arab israeli war. Perhaps they knew the US would intervene on the side of the arabs, as in 1956, if they knew Israel was winning. By wednesday afternoon it was too late to reverse Israel's fortune. Israel should realise that at this very moment the US does not perceive Israel's interests contiguous with their own. The US perceives Israel as a stick to wave at the arabs to keep them in line.

Then it bring me to question that Israeli intelligent service was aware of American attack? And another question that, why Israel intelligent service did let the Egyptian army past easily from sues canal and have let that much casualties despite they could stop them? Was that American conspiracy too?

"in the days of the Cold War,there was a counter balance to US power etc..etc.." Tosefta. Pure & cynical. Wether the Cold War was a source of 'balance of power' is a subject of many schools of thought. Wether the 'balance of power' has served the peace or caused tenssion between nations; it certain does. Since the end of the Napoleonic Wars and the Vienna Settlement 1815, the world has adopted the politics of 'balance of power' to protect the peace. It didn't work. It ends only by creating 'an escalation of power' calaminated by the Cold War. If fact the absence of the Cold War is a great step for peace in the Middle East. It discourages the countries of the ME from the adventures of political support and stop the supply of cut prices of arsenals of warfare. The end of the Cold War puts an end to wars between nations. It might have opened the age of terrorism; but that is an international problem and not an exclusivly an Israeli problem.

Dror, using my real name does not change your opinions does it???? BTW "dror" may possibly not even be your real name. SO my choice of names is just as good as any other. I do agree that america has become a vile GODLESS country for the most part, but that does not change the fact about israel either does it??? The majority of zionist do NOT believe in God. YET yall scream God gave US (jews)the land and on and on. My friend I was NOT alive for the WW11 so all that is just past history as far as I am concerned. You say enjoy Iraq's war, yeah I guess that is easy for you to say, since the USA was protecting israel in the process. Saddam as the rethoric went could bomb israel with their weapons which BTW WASNT there. False INFO deliberetly spewed. You say israel shouldnt trust the USA obvisiously it doesnt since you have spies everywhere. Protest your government and demand ties be broken with them, sure would make LOTS of folks happy!!!!!

Since Egypt had already declared war on Israeli when it mobilised its army (by closing the Straits, removing the UN peacekeeping forces and declaring its intentions to destroy Israel and drive its people into the sea, all the while deploying it army on the border, Israel's army was in high alert mode to say the least. How can an army that deploys in reaction to a threat be "offensive" while the army that threatens is "defensive"? Israel had no preplanned expansionist agenda (that's dead giveaway terminology about where you come from). See: www.sixdaywar.co.il for the facts.

Everyone with even a piece of a brain knows of the treachery of Israel from its ignominious conception to its horrible birth, to the brutal surprise attacks on its neighbours to the slaughter of innocents at Sabra and Chatilla that even the Knesset found Sharon: "Personally responsible," to the savage attacks in Lebanon to its evil foreign policy of murder, i.e., "targeted assassinations," to its forbidden cluster bombs on civilians until the glorious Hamas finally put a stop to. And now your "secret project" at Dimona will, inshallah, find a counterpart in Iran. Is there any reason the recent polls have designated Israel the most-hated nation on the face of the earth? Remember, the so-called state of Israel only exists because no other nation on the face of the earth wanted any part of you people and the poor Palestinians were defenceless. But times are changing. If you do have a god he must be a monster like his Israeli creations.

"When did anyone ever care about Jews?" I don't see the Afericans nor the Native Americans crying. And I would argue the Afericans with their history and Native Americans which have been treated MUCH MUCH worse after anywhere from 10-100 million were slaughterd by Europeans.

during the Iran-Iraq war, which was during the time of the anti-Israel Ayatollah, were greatly beneficial to Iran. And yet now Ahmedinejad talks about wiping Israel off the map.

It was only little us..... geddit? us:-) serously though folks, its a moot point if they could really have done much. they were in the process of getting stuffed in Vietnam at the time.

While the Arabs and assorted anti-Semites and conspiracy theorists have always said the USA was biased in favout of Israel, the American State Department has in fact tended to be pro-Arab and pro-oil. In Israel's early days France and Britain were more pro-Israel as in Suez in 1956. It was America who took the Arabs' side.

Most Israelis supported the Iraq war with enthusiasm and not because they wanted to support America. In the eyes of most Israelis, American lives are expendable. Israel used America when it comes to the Iraq war, just like it cynically uses the Diaspora Jewish community. As a Jew, I support the right of Israel to exist in peace and security, but not all of the behavior of many Israelis and their government.

This answers those who claim the 'powerful Israel lobby' carries too much influence in Washington. America has rightly always done what was right for America, bearing in mind its commitment to democracy and its strong Protestant ethos.

it stated, "In the estimation of the STRICOM commander, the Egyptian forces were deployed defensively, whereas the Israelis were deployed in rapid-strike offensive capability."

We may never know all the facts but the implication in the article is that this ship would of helped that us plan to attack Israel. Again, this article implies that there were indeed plans for an attack and this ship was gathering intelligence on Israel durring a period of war. And I don't think that this contradicts what you have stated.

I know dror calls americans edomites(because majority of people living in the usa are now muslims(arabs and black americans)...but you know what israel doesn't need america to defeat her own enemies-she's already proven---she needs her God not the usa...for vain is the help of man(usa).america needs to wake up-democrats,aclu gave her sleeping pills that's why even disasters,massacres cannot wake her up.this is no accident when God sent disasters in america-in our eyes they're natural disasters, but not in His sight...they're judgments on american soil.

psalm 60:11b......for vain is the help of man.

Nice try to deflect the case -- the attack on the USS Liberty June 8, 1967 [http://ussliberty.org/report/report.htm]. It was a deliberate attack and won't be forgotten.

unless God of Israel allows it.Israel doesn't need the world to defeat its enemies,it has God.how can the usa defeat israel..she's asleep,not even hurricanes,tornadoes,massacres,etc. can wake her up.thanks to democRATS,aclu,madelyn murray o'haire(they give her sleeping pills so that she won't wake up for a long time until end times.)she's leading arabs to part God's land too.the great britain is sleeping with her too.these two countries need "great awakening again"? a great revival?

National Security Agency (NSA) released additional information relative to the 08 June 1967 attack on the U.S.S. Liberty. http://www.nsa.gov/liberty/

If it wasn't for Jews, America would not have become a world power in the first place. Who do you think most of the scientists which developed the bomb that won WW2 were? Who do you think is largely responsible for making the U.S. a technological and economic power and thus enabled us to become a military superpower? The Jews have contributed plenty to America, it's only fitting that the U.S. should help Israel. Don't be so arrogant boyd and think you can just dismiss the Jewish people and their nation.

Dear Dror, I do NOT get my validation from you, so you may want to save your breath for someone who gives a damn regarding your opinion about them...I certainly DO NOT. Secondly, your rejoicing at the prospects of the US going after Iran and the resulting death and destruction of millions of innocent people only further reveals how deep your soul has sunken in the darkness -- despite your dark wishes, I will STILL light a candle for your poor soul. Lastly, with all the lack of confidence that I have about President Bush and his apparent incompetence in statesmanship, I DO believe he is saner than you are hoping him to be. The US will NOT attack Iran. You know why? Have you heard of the "missing Ukrainian nukes"?...about a 100 of them were "lost"? Have you thought about what will happen IF your wish comes true? Even your own Olmert knows that's just a farfetched wet dream! Get on with the program and stop biting every hand that feeds you honey, you ungrateful agonizing soul! HISSS!

Hey Keith, I am a Brazilian, with Sephardic, Amazonian indian and Portuguese background, perhaps many would call me a "mongrel", however, I see myself as just another human being who agrees with you and is apalled by how our human species and civilisation is unfolding at this time. All of us humans, whatever faith, or lack of it, whatever ethnicity, or blends of it, diserve a better fate than what we are witnessing at this moment. Ufortunately, I can not help feeling pessimistic about us all: the planet's climate changing into the unforeseeable and its catastrophic consequences looming, here we are, still discussing what divides us, when time is urgent for us to unite and save us from ourselves. Our top priority, for all religions, all nationalities, all ethnicities is a contingency plan for Earth: "Planeta Terra". Whatever happenned in the past is always debatable and it seems we humans can not manage to protect us from ourselves, perhaps never will. Shame on us all.

prepared a plan for cease-fire on the third day of the Six-Day War for Israel to return all the captured lands of that war. This was revealed in Michael Oren's research and book, The Six-Days War. That would have been a much better U.S. contribution to the region at the time, bringing peace earlier and preventing extremism in the region. Now it's a challenging ordeal, but hopefully achievable.

"Congressmen controlled by Jewish Lobby" Funny you chose the word "Jewish" and not simply "AIPAC". Freudian indeed. "The US invading Iraq, partly as a neocon plan to dominate the world, with Israel urging it to do so and the Lobby encouraging the Congress to go along" Is this something you concocted, or something you paraphrased from Mein Kampf? It always has to be a 5th column of Jews undermining Jewish sovereignty, doesn't it? The Roman Republic was a 200-year ally of Hashmonean Judaea. Without Rome, the Maccabees couldn't have repelled the Helenistic Syrian invasion. It was a group of Pharisees that singlehandedly brought in Pompey, a Roman renegade opposed by Caesar, in a full-scale occupation of Jerusalem and desecration of the Temple, beginning the process of deteoration in Jewish-Roman relations. It's always a Jew that initiates this kind of nonsense, from Paul to Marx to Kissinger.

On December 17, 1987, the issue was officially closed by the two governments through an exchange of diplomatic notes. Israel also eventually paid nearly $13 million in humanitarian reparations to the United States and in compensation to the families of the victims. [2] Wikipedia. There are other sources.Now do not tell me you could not find this by yousrself.So what is your real motive in your denial? Have the Arabs paid for the USS Cole yet? All the other terrorist attacks on US CIVILLIANS? There was no war on at the time.

ON GIVING US AID ARE WE INCAPABLE OF MANAGING OURSELVES???

Too many pieces of information indicate that the Israelis were confused, survived, baffled, and shocked once the ship was identified as American. Ceasing fire, offering assistance, and immediately notifying the Americans does not support the conspiracy angle. The ship was merely incapacitated. For this to be a real conspiracy, the ship would have been sunk, and napalm and machine guns is insufficient for a task like that. Plus, given the massive fallout from the incident that lasts until today, there is no motive or benefit that can plausibly explain a deliberate attack like that. Of course , if you fall into the trap of believing that Israel is some macroscopic version of Zeus, all-powerful, able to manipulate the lesser 'gods', all-knowing, and cold and calculating, then this should be evidence enough for you to blame Israel.

If it was up to me I would live up to all your conditions in order to be free of you and your goddamn disgusting culture. Unfortunately we do have slaves running this country that have grown accustomed to relying on your dirty whore money. Israel should feel ashamed for turning herself into a prostitute for cheap cash. The day will come when this will be no more. China is producing very modern and very elegant jet fighters courtesy of the Israeli aircraft industry. Our old Lavi model which the bastard americans forced us to nix, because they wanted to continue owning our military contracts and therefore our military. When China overtakes you economically and militarily we will have a choice between their weapons or yours, courtesy of the global free market economy. Kentsee you too can't have it both ways.

There is no question that without America, Israel would not exist. There is no question, either, that the US, whatever its faults, as all have, is a beacon for democracy. For this, all people who love freedom, must thank those who had drafted the US constitution, the most important document in modern times.

For reminding those who need reminding that the 67 war was a defensive war against imminent criminal and deranged arab violence whos intention was to commit a second Holocaust.Thanks Jake, and may I add you are doing a job out their against the freaks and maniacs.Happy Independance Day

Jake, If you want to hear my views about fairness in Du fur or Yugoslavia I suggest you go find the appropriate talk back web sites. If I care about those issues, you will see my posts. Last time I looked this site is about Israel and the way it conducts itself cowards its neighbors and interacts with the USA, her major (only) benefactor in this world at present..

There are all kinds of hypothetical plans, that's what military planners do, they plan out thousands of hypothetical scenarios: eg The Netherlands attacks Canada, The Belgians join The Netherlands - now the USA has to attack Belgium. etc.

By the US placing a spy ship whos communications could be overheard by the Soviets or the Arabs and so impede israels plans for a pre-emptive strike, they brought it on themselves.There was no choice for israel in 67, it was do or die the existance of the nation was at risk.What I find funny though, is how so many americans have made this the big deal.Tell me, if the very existance of the US was at stake, are you telling me the US wouldnt kill 100000000 to save itself??We all know that Americans value american life more than non american life.Look at their reactions to the friendly fire incidents involving Canadians in afghanistan and the brits in Iraq.Wheres the justice there?? HYpocrites!

goes to show how much you know about hebrew names. Dror means FREEDOM. Not some early zionist machine gun.

How did the "Lobby" fit into Kissengers foot dragging over sending arms to israel during the war and Nixons deciding to over ride him and send those arms.Was it the LObby that forced Nixons hand?? Before you say yes, remeber that NIxon was caught on tape making anti semitic statements on a number of occasions and since jews didnt vote for him in general, what motivated him to help israel when it needed it most??

Wow! Do you really feel this way towards us, your American friends? I happen to be American and would love to see Israel eliminate its enemies. I hate the fact our leaders are pretending to fight a war on terrorism without unleasing all of our firepower against our enemies. I also hate the fact we put pressure on you guys for rightfully defending yourself against barbarians. I wish you guys would wipe them out! We had weak leaders then against the Soviets and we have weak leaders now against terrorist states. I am one American that believes we sold you weapons for a reason and we should get out of the way and let you use them. Unless the russians get involved and try to stop you. Then we need to step in and back you guys up if you need our help, but I think you guys could takem.

Indeed, a plan to attack did exist, it just was not activated or taken up to higher levels. You would have loved to be on such a mission. Such a disappointment.

It would take only a few minutes to see past the sensational headline and summary and it might keep you from being so quick to insult perhaps your only friend. The only intervention discussed and never fully planned involved the use of American forces to halt a war where territorial integrity was threatened. And even what was planned was discarded once the '67 war broke out. Political and cultural bias toward Israel has been a constant in America. Her politicians understand this or they don't get elected. America is Israel's friend I would hope that friendship is reciprocated. Or perhaps in the future Israel will count on China and India to come to her aid in time of trouble.

See James Bamford: 'Body of Secrets' (2001) on the history of the NSA. Israel abruptly halted the Golan operation when Liberty appeared on the Sinai and resumed it once the ship had been incapacitated in a deliberate attack (it is known to have been such inter alia because NSA aircraft overhead intercepted Israeli communications). The ship had long-range antennas, and while in reality spying on Arab-Soviet communications, might have picked up Israeli ditto. The US was against the Golan operation and tried to persuade Israel not to launch it. Had it known it was imminent, it could have hindered it, or so Israel feared.

'How can you be a soldier in the us army please come and join us in the IDF THE BEST ARMY!!!' Maybe he prefers to serve in a force where it is still a crime to shoot women and children.

Arab: Day dreamer. Too much hasheesh screwing your brain. LIke the old days of Badouism.