U.K. court rules Jewish school racially discriminatory

The mother converted-shes a jew. You and anyone else who says other wise is intollerant and racist.

You claim the child is not Jewish by any Jewish definition. Certainly the congregation which converted her and millions of Reform and Conservative Jews would accept her as being Jewish. Doesn't that qualify as being a Jewish definition (if not yours)?

nice of you to come out of the closet chaim, but we always knew anyway.

Let's call it what it is -- movement discrimination, not race discrimination. The problem is that the Orthodox movement does not accept conversions performed by the Conservative movement or the Reform movement, and neither the Orthodox movement nor the Conservative movement accept conversions performed by the Reform movement. In fact, a friend of mine underwent three separate conversions (Reform then Conservative then Orthodox), because as she became more observant and went from one community to another, her conversion was no longer seen as good enough. This is truly ridiculous and a shame. All three movements should recognize each of the other movements' conversions as long as the appropriate ritual and intent has been applied. Unless there is some reason to suspect otherwise, someone who calls himself/herself a Jew should be taken at his/her word, and if a rabbi affirms that the appropriate ritual and intent were applied, then it should be accepted unless proven otherwise.

The British court was ultimately saying that a Jew's faith defines him as Jewish and not accident of birth or Orthodox conversion. This seems a reasonable, humane approach. Asserting that this conclusion is an outrage or antisemetic is downright bizzare. The Israeli father was correct: the school's prevention of his son's attendance at a Jewish school because his mother had a nonorthodox conversion was terribly unfair to the boy. The problem lies not in the Court's decision but rather the challenge presented to Orthodoxy: If a result is manifestly unfair, can it really be Halachic? If unfair results are Halachic, then is Orthodox devotion to Halacha in every respect morally supportable?

If public funding is involved (which I had overlooked) then the school has already given up it's autonomy and no longer is truly private. Also, upon further thinking one would think Orthodox Jews would want this child to have a Jewish education and the bias here is one that should be not be encouraged as Hitler would have made no such distinction.

How do we fix this?

"Judaism is the religion of the Jewish people and you can be a Jew and not practice the religion of the Jews, thus be atheist etc etc." This is a key point which a lot of people simply don't get. The Jews come under an very ancient,almost primordial social construct. The Jews came of age, so to speak, when every tribal or ethnic group had its own language, customs, rituals, language/dialect, celebrations of the seasons, life cycles, and distinctive religion or mythology. If you went 100 Km. in another direction, you'd find another ethnic-linguistic group with its own set of language, religion, rituals, traditions, etc.

You claim the child is not Jewish by any Jewish definition. Does that include the synagogue that converted her? By their definition (and they ARE Jewish) she is certainly Jewish.

On the other hand, you keep doing it to us. What do Muslims have to do with this Jewish school issue? why the disgusting remarks about Muslims who have nothing to do with this? this is just as ridiculous as blaming the spread of AIDS in Egypt on the mossad, which some Egyptians do. These nonsensical associations have got to stop at once on both sides.

According to my understanding of the case, this child's mother didn't convert according to Halachah and currently isn't religious. As such, she isn't considered Jewish by Halachah. This is then in essence a case of a non-Jew trying to go to a Jewish school b/c his dad is Jewish...

This started when the boy`s father, who is Israeli, took legal action against the school to get it to reverse its decision of excluding his son whose mother had converted in Israel. IMO the school got what it deserved. It`s all politics... our conversions in the UK are better than your conversions in Israel, sort of thing. It is not the Uk government, it is the UK legal system saying to Jewish schools that if you cannot decide who's Jewish then we'll do it for you.

Faith schools in the UK must abide by the law if they want government funding. And that means abiding by laws of racism - in this case no school can exclude pupils on any grounds of race or religion. The Jews themselves are excluding this pupil, which is peculiar, to say the least, to non Jews. If the boy and his family are Israeli and not satisfied, why don't they bring the boy to be educated in Israel?

Perhaps Haaretz can offer a little more detail, as to whether the court ruling is over what the legal definition of a Jew is, or whether it is about whether Jewish school has a right to not admit: kids whose Parent's conversion were not 100 percent Kosher and or Kids who are not Jewish. If the courts ruling is that the Definition of a Jew will be as per the courts ruling and contrary to Orthodox belief than we must consider the greater ramifications of this ruling. This would force Rabbi's to perform a Bris on a child they do not consider Jewish, or same for a Bar/Bat Mitzvah or to sign the GAIT for a marriage license. That is a very big issue and certianly steps into the rights of Religions. So Haaretz and others who are more learned than I (of which there must be millions, or I fear the world Doomed) can you please advise the application of the ruling. Does it apply to the school only or the broader example as noted? alwayslearning@live.ca

i am an hebrew,from father and mother,discoered in 1999 but born in 1940.some6 generations back from the judean desert that makes me a JEW. this MATERNAL BUSSINESSis a religious idiosy invented by some non believers in ISrael. Avram's wife was not jewish,isaac was not jacobs mum was not.mennaseh,ephraim,some of davids wives and solomon got 1000 concubines, therefore how many jews can call themselves jews?the northern tribes were not jews and attacked the jews,JUDAH,LEVY AND SIMEON, can you deny that orthodox?

Islamic or Catholic schools are no different from Jewish schools and they must offer places to non-Moslems or Non-Catholics. In he case of this Jewish school, the child in question is actually from a Jewish background, albeit not Orthodox. What if he had been a catholic?

First of all you are wrong. Rabbbits multiply faster than humans, much faster. They are just eaten more. Second this is off topic. The ruling has nothing to do with muslims. Third your post is extremely racist. I wonder why it is not deleted by the moderator.

A Jewish school by definition and should be allowed to decide who it admits or not. This child is not Jewish by Jewish law and by any Jewish definition. If they want to send their child to a non-Jewish or similarly a reform Jewish school (which there is no such thing) than the parents may go ahead but the UK government has no business here.

what you get, as the UK slides slowly, but inevitably, under SHARIA might become known as 'The Madrassa Enabling Act'

The only way the court could have made such a decision is if it believes that Jews are a "race". While I disagree with the school's decision, by definition it can't be racist.

The school is oversubscribed so they based admission on the student being "ethnically Jewish". Had they said, first come, first in, when a space comes vacant, no problem. But they specifically said you are pure so you are in, you are not so you are out. That is racism IMHO.

This is the isuse of contention: "rather than on a series of factors which themselves have no relevance under Jewish law but which seem to support the notion of a test of Jewish practice required by the English legal system," he said. The idea that the determination of who is Jew under UK laws will be determined by UK Courts applying UK laws which have a Christian basis to them rather than using the Orthodox Jewish Laws. This I understand, and if this is the case, let's make sure the point is well understood. The point being that there is no problem with A non Jew or a Jew who some will say doesn't have the most Kosher conversion going to a Jewish school. WE have to be clear as people, will use this against Jews and Israel, look at Stephen #5. It would be nice to have a fair chance, but the world isn't fair and the sooner you realize the happier you will become. a said truth like death and taxes

While I agree with you that the school should accept not only Jews but the court's decision that this was a racial discrimination is a religious (and anti-semitic) decision by itself since the court has used Christian values to determine the status of the Jewish school.

My mother was and is Lutheran, my grandmother as well (on my fathers side the same), so by the Jewish definition of religion I'm a Lutheran. And I'm an atheist, so I'm a Lutheran atheist. That's one possibility, or it's only the religion that counts, not the ancestry, then of course there is no such thing as a Jewish or Lutheran or Buddhist atheist, just an atheist. That would be my definition as well. In the UK it's forbidden to discriminate because of the so-called race (whatever that may be), let's better say ancestors, but obviously it's not forbidden to discriminate because of religion. It seems like it's as well forbidden to discriminate by "race" or ancestry for a religion, that's fine with me as well. I don't cry about Aryan Christians who discriminate against what they call the Jewish race.

The Muslim population growth in U.K. is more than 10 TIMES the non-Muslim population growth. Furthermore, the avarage age of a U.K. Muslim is somewhere around 5 years old (I think). The Christian population is actually DECLINING. There is an oft-used expression when describing extreme population growth..."multiplying like rabbits". The funny thing is that U.K.s Muslim population is growing far more exponentially than any rabbit population ever could. Perhaps the expression will soon be..."multiplying like Muslims". In any event, anyone who believes that the U.K. is not thoroughly and irreversibly doomed by the demographics of the past 5 years is simply in denialof reality. Sharia Law is coming down the pike way faster than anyone could ever have imagined. The total number of Muslims in Great Britain: 2004: 1,870,000 2005: 2,017,000 2006: 2,142,000 2007: 2,327,000 2008: 2,422,000 2009 (projected): ~3,000,000 Enjoy the public beheadings and stonings, Linthwaite.

The Jewish Community accept this conversion as a legal orthodox conversion, what the court is saying is that the school doesn't have the right to deny them an education, and I think that is entirely true. I don't agree with the whole orthodoxy conversion BS, it really screwed up a cousin of mine and perhaps that is why I feel this way. If the court was stating the Orthodox community must consider the conversion Kosher, then yes I would say this is wrong, let religions handle internal matters of this nature internally, but what does their beliefs have to do with a Jewish Education??? So long as they are not going to be disruptive in class you should be happy to have another student, another person who shows an interest and desire to know the knowledge of the Torah and Talmud. maybe I have misread the article, but if the issue is as I've stated, I am really confused with many of the posters with whom I often find myself agreeing with. please elaborate alwayslearning@live.ca

The usual emotional reaction from an Israeli. It is not anti-semitism. This started when the boy's father, who is Israeli, took legal action against the school to get it to reverse its decision of excluding his son whose mother had converted in Israel. IMO the school got what it deserved. It's all politics... our conversions in the UK are better than your conversions in Israel, sort of thing.

It is part of a Christian dogma that religion and ethicity are two different things. By imposing Christian values on the Jewish establishment British court brakes the British law which prohibits such actions.

Choice based upon race=racism. No ifs, no buts, no nothing. If you choose a belief system based upon race then you choose racism; it is that simple, regardless of the age of any particular belief system. You made your choice, accept it.

This is anti-semitism...

The Brit monarchy, which (to say the least) also receives state funds, is restricted to members of the Anglican Church, the official state religion of Britain. To apply the same standard to the monarchy, Jews, Catholics and other religions and "ethnicities" must be made eligible. The UK courts seem to want to dictate operating standards to non-Anglicans that do not apply to the preferred Anglican state Church. It is part of the overarching colonial supremist mentality at the core of Brit kultur. Needless to say, the same "law" being applied to the Jewish school is not being applied to Islamist schools - imagine what would happen if the court ordered Sunni schools to admit non-Sunni adherents, like Shiites, or vice versa: more bombs in the subways. But Jews they feel comfortable pushing around. Why there has to be a Jewish homeland - Israel. Church-linked states like UK are not reliable purveyors of human rights to non-members. Why the USA was formed and booted the Brit regime in 1776!

A Baptist is a religious definition, being a Baptist requires that you believe firstly in, the Creator, then the whole Bible thing. Baptism too of course, if you really are an atheist you believe in none of that at all. That is the difference here, you cannot be a catholic atheist, baptist atheist etc - this are all religious definitions alone, not ethnicity. Judaism's problem is there is a mix and link, Judaism is the religion of the Jewish people and you can be a Jew and not practice the religion of the Jews, thus be atheist etc etc. Try some logic.

Interesting to note how you see Jews as a collective unit with Israel. As if there were to exist no jews who have differeing views from that of the State of Israel. Or that the views of Israel represent UK Jews and vice versa, which is clearly not true. There are many jews who are virulently anti-Israel, Norman Finkelstein and Noam Chomsky are examples of dispacable persons, who are Jewish and Anti-Israel, and whose views clash on nearly every front with the state of israel Either way, interesting Freudian slip you have, as by your post it is clearly discernible that you view UK Jews and the State of Israel as one, when in actuality they are distinct entities and each UK JEW is also a distinct person, who will have individual beliefs and opinions. Shock eh, who'd have thought it possible. Are all Anglicans unified in UK, if so what about Ireland and what of the large Indian, Muslims, Chinese, Russian Orthodox, etc... peoples that reside in the multi cultural city of yours?

What else did you expect from the Brits? Anything goes as long as you can be anti-Jewish.

In the era o the ottoman rule u re right most pal muslim and jew were descendents of Jews. but in 1800s there was great migrations from arab states inside ottomans to palestine to work and with brits there was even more. so like jews who migrated from europe many Pal arabs re migrants. Jews. many converted jews dont live in Palestine they migrated to mesopotamia Egypt and Iraq cuz in Palestine there was no goods no work to do there was only some cities like gaza Ramallah Jerusalem Jaffa Hebron Safed... ur thesis that pal arabs re descendents of jews is wrong. cuz many of pals migrated there... but Jews in europe re for sure descendents of jews. Familial Mediterranean Fever a genetic inflamatory illnes that is seen in people from lower mediterranean like armenians arabs greeks sepharadi jews less in ashkenasi jews. Its very very rare in real european people. so this proves the genetic link to lover med countries like Me this shows jews re certainly not European linked people.

So why not base it on religion- being orthodox Jewish and that be it. This will effect not just Jewish schools.

Normally, I keep out of Rabbinical Law and 3.500 years of Jewish traditions. However, a Jew is a Jew, born from a Jewish born mother. Thats our heritage, passed down since before Christianity or the fact that as in the case of Great Britain many were still living in caves or mud hovels or dancing around in Stonehenge. Certainly well before medieval times. Lets just keep our true religion as is. Lets be proud that we have survived in a world that took upon itself new religions for political reasons. Maybe, that is another reason why we have been persecuted beyond all rationale human understanding. Good day.

convertin to judaism is hard enough so after convering whats the problem? even if one of the parents is not accepted as jewish if they want to raise the kid as Jewish why not. it wrong to be this much discriminative

No other (non-Jewish) schools in UK have any similar criteria. Nicole, name just ONE UK Islamic school that has refused even ONE Jewish child. You can't? Then stop spreading your revolting racisim

attempting to control all aspects of Jewish life in the UK from education to deaths, to access to the government to claiming to talk for all British Jews pertaining Israel. And normal Jews who want to bring their kids up in the Jewish faith whilst acknowledging they have a mother, and most importantly their childs future is in London and not in Israel. As for the admissions policy for JFS, it accepts government funding therefore it must be run according to the law of the land. Which is you cannot discriminate on the grounds of Race.

A differentiation on a religious base is allowed, i.e. whether the kid is jewish, catholic, baptist, sunni, baha'i, bhuddist, pastafari or whatever, an ethnic differentiation is not, regardless whether about english, german, semites, chinese, san, apache or whatever. The problem comes with the antiquated view of some people about the "jewish people", most descendants now probably muslim palestinians. An "atheist jew" should be treated in an other way as an "atheist baptist" or an "atheist hindu", what's the reason for this?

First Livni demands we change a law which restricts the movement of war criminal suspects, and now this. Can you imagine the uproar if we were to demand that Israel changes one of its? Or even suggest that it abides by International law?

Shame on the School, Why are we dividing ourselves along lines so fine few can see and decipher them. Furthermore, this isn't a matter of a Bar Mitzvah, Wedding, Bris, etc... its a matter of Education, and in Judaism, maybe I am wrong, but I always thought that learning was highly prized. What is the wrong with a Catholic, Anglican or Muslim wishing to attend a Jewish day school? What if they lived in an area where the choice was a poorly run public school or a well run Jewish private school? What if the parents felt that learning Talmud had a positive impact on the childs analytical skills, would we deny a child education for these reasons? Shame on your School, you have negated your most sacred of tasks, to teach children and make them love to learn, upon your judgement day when asked if you achieved your true Telos, you will have to lie as you could have taught one more student but you said no, for such non-sensical reasons too

Christian and Jews are not allowed in islamic schools in Great Britain, unless they convert. Did the Supreme Court rule about this too?????

This kind of nitpicking nonsense has no place in the contemporary world. Thank goodness the court ruled in the way it did. I hope it forces JFS to change its admissions policy to something more appropriate to the 21st (rather than 13th) Century.

have to stay out of religious matters. The mother is not Jewish and that makes the child not Jewish.. Convert the child...........