Two Palestinians killed by IDF fire near Gaza security fence

Clickfool: "And, of course, no-one in the IDF is ever punished for being sloppy, casual, undisciplined or trigger-happy." AE: "When was the last time that anyone in Hamas or any militant organization was "punished for being sloppy, casual, undisciplined or trigger-happy?" The IDF is the army of the legal government of the state of Israel, just as the U.S. Army is of America. Hamas, Islamic Jihad, Al Aksa Martyrs Brigades etc are all independent militias.

You wrote; "And, of course, no-one in the IDF is ever punished for being sloppy, casual, undisciplined or trigger-happy." When was the last time that anyone in Hamas or any militant organization was "punished for being sloppy, casual, undisciplined or trigger-happy"?

To all the apologists of terror and Brainwashing...do you not see the picture in the headlines? These are the Palestinian kids...their people's future...a damn shame!!! Israel will always defend its borders and will always have the moral hig ground as long as Palestinians continue to indoctrinate their kids to hate and use terror to get their way. It is so imple, yet so many people just don't get it. Very sad!!!

Thanks for your post. No, I haven't had a chance to read F. Boyle yet, but I will. But who is Karni? I haven't seen any posts from him/her...I'll keep looking. Unfortunately, most of what we seem to get from the pro-Israel posters is abuse and namecalling... Best regards

It moves, 'crawls', looks Arab: invasion alarm!

Think you forgot one classification. Where, in the name of heaven, do you possibly place yourself???

on this thread can be classified: 1.serious,thoughtful ones like Karni.These are few & far between. 2.Mentally incompetent,of which there are plenty.probably like their idf friends! 3.people with a twisted sense of humour. They are all sitting on a powder keg & don't realise it.A bit like passengers on the Titanic who don't see the iceberg approaching. Did you get a chance to read the F.Boyle article in globalresearch.ca? Most interesting distinction between civil disobedience & civil resistance. Regards

Perhaps, Brant, we could also have a generic statement from the IDF for use on these many occasions: "IDF killed () Palestinians for walking too close to the fence"

IDF killed two more Palestinians who had the absolute nerve to walk too close to the fence...again, no report of any weapons found, no report of any terrorist activity on the part of the dead men...just the usual, routine, almost everyday statement from the IDF...

would you go skulking around the fence at night? And they were farmers? I doubt that. Mostly people with explosives are being shot near the fence. In quite a few of these attacks Israelis have been hurt, some seriously.

yonatan you're getting the stories mixed up.There are two separate stories,that some posters, are talking about.The other one is about two farmers in Gaza,whose farms were being bull dozed,and the idf also shot them(Maannews.net/en).This one is about two people who collect scraps and cement to sell.It's their livelihood.It's not a crime and they were on their side of the'fence'.I understand it is some sort of electric fence! Hey buddy Tomy,bet you weren't such a pretty child,but you sure are a monster as an adult! What went wrong?

Yes indeed!!

excitement? Do you think these people are normal?hey,two people,nothing.the idf are specialists in killing.A few hundreds hundreds is quite the norm for them.While on the topic do read Dalia Karpel's 'The One Who Makes People Talk' in Haaretz,(Sept.29,2007);reprinted in imeu.net,(Sept.29,2007).Highlight:idf breaks the arm of a 4 year old playing in the sandbox.Gee,it's not enough for a kid to have fun.Our heroes have to have their entertainment,no? Also 'Breaking the Silence:What Soldiers Do in the Occupied Territories'Colin Hinshelwood,Asia Times,Aug.16,2007. Both reports based on the testimony of some idf soldiers,who witnessed such incidents.

as long as it lasts!And who knows how long it will last. He/she who forgets his/her history is doomed to repeat it.I believe it was the American philosopher George Santayana.

Haaretz is bias in who it chooses to post in this forum. While its ok for Israeli fundamentalists to call for the total annihilation of the Palestinian people, in the crudest of ways, you will not post us who oppose such vulgar displays of hatred and racism. How can we debate these issues if Haaretz will not allow freedom of speech to all?

just think how all that hate is going to affect his life. Time to think about a future.

Perhaps Haaretz could take a group picture of the rest of us on these posts and simply caption it "Victims of Lakshmi's incessant quoting of the same old, same old, fire toy guns in the air to express collective frustration".

to see this beautiful child. But those two dead came from first, being a beautiful child whith an AK47,and now dead.

the ful picture, he is wrapt in a suicide belt and a Quoran promising him 72 beautiful virgins. CAN ANYBODY BEAT THIS OFFER???????? The bright future is waiting for this LOVELY CHILD.

want to have an independent country.It is deffinatly not the case,They could have it in 1948. And this is the exsect reason for resisting every attempt to solve the problem.And how they doing it?? By terror. Arabs never missed an opportunity to miss an opportunity,Aba Eban said. I am convinced,they do it on pupose,and not only by being stupid.

My condolesance.

The two farmers were shot down by idf while bulldozers were bulldozing their farmland.These incursions are nothing new by the idf.It may interest you to know that 1 million olive trees have been deliberately destroyed by israel since 1948. Israel's crimes are not just against humanity but also Nature!

a toygun? How about a picture of the two victims?

zone are innocent. Are you all nuts!!!! How many terror acts,kidnaping,tunnelig,rocketing,murdering you need to understand,Israel is surrounded by deadly barbaric saviges, whos religion is terror, and life is a failire.Wake up!!!!

of your interpretation.Palis never had any countries,most of them mooved to Palestine for jobs after early Zionist started develope the beren land.And the land was accupied by others, like Otomans,British.And they never claimed independance. Now they do,but deep down they do not want it.Stealing Un aid, terror, exteremism is the only talent they have. To govern a country, they will never be able.And they know it.

This is a picture of a failed Arab society,failed religion which promotes terror. And then we have a lot of posters on this talkback who are in total approoval of this madness. You are not doing a favor to Arabs by knoking Israel,you just legitimise terror, murder,extremism.

Don't give up. Remember that Haaretz actually publishes more anti-Israel bias than even Al-Jazeera does. Remember that this brigade of haters we daily read have nothing new to say. They are mired in doctrine and ideoogy. Yet there are great rays of hope. Swiss Dino is fair and wants peace. Christoph has some strong words for Hamas. Some Palestinians want them out even more than Israelis do. I keep posting to try to balance the madness and also because challenging these loons is actually easy. Be good to yourself. Keep the faith.

Only JEWS matter. Look over there... he`s crouching, he could be eating a pistachio nut, shoot him, everyone, FIRE!!

What is really needed is a double wall similar but not the same as in the West Bank. One Wall on the Israeli side and another on the Gazan side. Set each back 10 meters from the border and mine and electrify the middle. No line of sight for either side. No free passage for either side, except at agreed crossings. No watch towers unless agreed and equal on both sides. No Gazans shooting into Israel, no IDF shooting into Gaza. This happens far too often.

Dealing with islamic terrorists for whom life is a failure and death is a virtue,is differante than having fun on the Swiss border. We are all products of our envirnment.Swiss envirenment did not prepaire You to understand the reality Israel is faced with.The constant atempt of Arabs to penetrate,rocket,in other word, just to murder is beyond your comprehention.Unfortunatly,Israel is too soft in handling those saviges.

Oh, my goodness, the worldwide right-wing gay movement could fill a hotel room in San Francisco, even without your participation....???? Hear, hear....:) By the way, I also have my little "theory" with regard to you being one of the (rather rare) examples of a right-wing gay. But I don't wanna go into further details now. I will just leave it with 4 catchwords: Middle East, army, machism, acceptance. Bingo....????

...hamas and pales terror have used everything from donkey carts, to ambulances, to school children for shooting and suicide bombings... yes inncocents py the price but the responsablity lays with hamas for having the idf sodiers nervous at the trigger. have you ever visited the gaza israel border, not exactly the swiss france border. when Hamas rejects violnce nd love thier chlidren as much as they hate us, then we can rest a bit at the border. maybe 3 -4 generations!

Who are these leading politicians who speak enough German, read your newspaper and have so few pressing duties that they vote on your little local newspaper, Dino? Real politicians make news, they don't read it. It's rather sweet that you're so trusting and innocent. Go on doing it. But don't expect me to agree with you and don't expect us to take your newspaper's advice.

These days when Palestinians die due to the oppression it isn't reported in the outside world anymore,TY Haaretz for some info

would two Gaza "farmers" be approaching the border fence in the middle of the night? Picking up cow dung, perhaps?

In the middle of the night? Near the border fence with a hostile army on the other side? During wartime? C'mon, Karni, how stupid can yu get?

Brant, actually there is a discussion now in Switzerland whether the soldiers should still be allowed to keep their guns at home. Too many wives killed by their jealous husbands over the past few years, sometimes even the whole families wiped out. The "Greens" had now the "great" idea to keep allowing the weapons at home, just without any ammunition...we will probably have a vote on that one rather sooner than later... But chances are pretty good that this was your last little "bullet-orgy" in Switzerland...:)

Its not extremism baby but a hidden thought of yours that the Arab world has adopted a "live and let live" policy. Sorry to bust your bubbles, but that is not the case. The 10,000 + terror strikes perpetrated by the Arabs since Sept 11th alone, including those of Palestinian terrorist, are completley ignored by you. You have hitched a ride on the Carter paddywagon, ignoring the facts of history only to fall victim to the self imposed grievences of the Arab world, mainly of the Palestinians. Step out of your self-righteous box and realize that passiveness is going to lead you straight into destruction, or Islam, I see no difference. This ideology of "neutralism" that you and many of your countrymen are a part has become of cancer in distinguishing between right and wrong P.S I didnt get an invitation :(

Thanks, but no thanks, Margie. If I want fair and balanced news, I will rather stick to Haaretz and my beloved "Neue Zürcher Zeitung" from Switzerland. Which was voted by the leading politicians of this world as the Nr.1 newspaper when it comes to foreign policy issues (Merkel, Sarkozy and Gordon Brown have the "Neue Zürcher Zeitung" every morning on their breakfast table...). So you see, you would have all the reason of this world to trust my judgement. Which means, whenever I criticize Israel, you can assume that she hasn't behaved very "nicely" indeed.....

They do not value their children, they are pawns and raised on hate. It is an excersize in futility to change people who treat their own children with such utter disrespect. By doing this they leave their children with no future because Israel wil wipe gaza clean very soon.

at a time when I somethimes think that sanity has disappeared (as it did in the late 1930s), your posts give me hope that many out there see the situation as realistically as you do.If this is the case, unfortunately they are keeping very silent, and that is quite painful. Thanks for installing some common sense and goodness in this sea of total ignorace and hatred (a lethal combination) around us (both geographic and virtual on these TBs).

....are you paying your basketball-players to throw the ball or to "shoot the farmer"...??? I very much assume and hope that "shooting the (Palestinian) farmer" hasn't yet become a "sport" in Israel.... By the way, my height (1.87) may impress the ladies, but I'm afraid the basketball-coaches of this world will not be too keen to become acquainted with me.... P.S. Better hope and pray that you will never have to ask for asylum in our beautiful country. The "scared shit" will most probably not be the very best letter of recommendation. To put it very, very mildly...:)

Thanks for the propaganda laugh of the day....

I looked up the figures and did you know that there has been a Jewish community in Switzerland since the year 1850 with a population of 3145 Jews (0.1 percent of the total population), and in the year 2000 they were something like 17914 (0.2 of the total population). As for the Moslems in the 1960s` the presence of Moslems within the Swiss population was rare, but at the year 2000 were something like 310807 (4.3 percent of the total population). Well Dino start reproducing Christine babies for I am sorry to inform you that you have a population crisis on your hands, ?No don?t be silly not the Moslems but the Jews look how they changed the population balance, dimorphic and statuesque how dare they double their numbers from 0.1 % to 0.2 % ?:)

Those photos were taken AFTER the Hizb Allah rain of rockets on civilians in undisputed territory in legal Israel well within the 1947 Partition Lines (pure and actual War Crimes under International Law). As I recall, all those signed Israeli rockets hit their marks and I trust that while the message is lost on idiots like you, it probably got through to Hizb Allah. Unprovoked attacks on civilians will be met with devastating retaliations. Hizb Allah is still paying for the clean up in Lebanon.

Yes, I agree - Ynetnews is center while JPost is center-right. Compared to them Haaretz is far left.

more people are what ? You are actually proof that you know zero about what is happening in the world. Try Africa, a huge continent, know whats happening anywhere ? what do you think zilch is happening there ? get my drift ? so get of yr high horse and ask yourself a question... why is it that USAF bombs "wedding parties", "Baby food factories",,,why is it that israel always seems to hit "Farmers", "Boys out looking for scrap metal", "metal work shops"... do you see a picture , maybe the arabs are lying ? Wake up and smell the roses.

We've missed you. Good to see harras being spelled that way again. Love that "Annexation Wall". I have a better one, how about calling it the "Occupational Hazard"? Hey fair-minded Dav, let's talk about the "international peace activists". How bout we call it like it is: "leftist anti-zionist screamers"; isn't that a bit more like it? Didn't know the Palestinians needed any help picking their olives. Thought the evil Jews had burned all those trees according to your side. Maybe the Palestinians did ask for help to pick off some Israelis. The "international peace activists" have been pretty good with that kind of assistance to violence. Peace indeed. What a crock of you know what you peddle every time you write.

Swiss (Dino) the reason why the minarets story hasn`t cost a single drop of blood is because Switzerland has no population crisis, the day the Moslem population in Switzerland will grow from the appalling 4% today to the percentage that you have in France, that will be the day an Intifada will shake off Switzerland (mark my words in stone so you and your offspring will remember)! By the way I heard that in 2003 there has been some scandal in Switzerland, regarding something about an IMAM (a Moslem religious leader) that was denied a work permit working as an IMAM in Switzerland, just because he was considered a potential threat to religious peace! Face it Dino your people are scared shit, so what is your advise to your people!

Swiss (Dino) the reason why the minarets story hasn`t cost a single drop of blood is because Switzerland has no population crisis, the day the Moslem population in Switzerland will grow from the appalling 4% today to the percentage that you have in France, that will be the day an Intifada will shake off Switzerland (mark my words in stone so you and your offspring will remember)! By the way I heard that in 2003 there has been some scandal in Switzerland, regarding something about an IMAM (a Moslem religious leader) that was denied a work permit working as an IMAM in Switzerland, just because he was considered a potential threat to religious peace! Face it Dino your people are scared shit, so what is your advise to your people!

Look at it closely, that is not a Hamas child apparatchik working himself into a Jew-hating frenzy. Nah, that kid is the Muscial Director of the Gaza Philharmonic and he is leading them in a stirring rendition of Hatikvah.

This was one of those weekend Swiss Army reserves sessions. As you know, you all get to keep your guns at home and have to fire them with some sort of measured regularity. I was one of about thirty of us lined up on our bellies firing across the gorge; making one helluva racket. Certainly scared the hikers away but, as I recall, the beer, later in Grindelwald, was much more important to all these proud Swiss reservists than shooting up the trees (come to think of it, there was venison on the menu in Interlaken that night, so it could have been us). Anyway, I felt as if I'd done my part to protect all your numbered accounts.

The "poorly trained slobs" you refer too have done well defeating you losers again and again. Put your money where your mouth is and come to Israel tough guy. I'll be going back for a visit this January.

Any of the defenders of the Palistinian cause.....would you please defend this picture? Can there be any rational parent or society that celebrates or allows this? How can this type of culture have a nation right near my home? We might make peace with who?

That's what happens when you sneak around in the dark near a security fence. These people aren't very bright.

as you stated:druze and circassians ;compulsory draft.beduin unit voluntary,further beduin dispersed in various units voluntary.so far all listed are muslim.sunni except druze,shia branch,or origin.further more,many arab christians in security services.many druze and other arabs in prison service.of course you know many arabs of all denominations in police. should that information somehow influence some of the ultra-right views voiced here?i am tempted to add a personal note,of my youth,but i'll refrain. peace.

Swiss should come and listen to the news commentaries: I'd say London and Kirshenbaum for one. After he'd been here long enough to understand what was being said he'd have enough knowledge of the situation to appreciate what actually happens here.

Swiss (Dino) What Does your Christian girl friend to do with it? Do you really bereave we discriminate on the bases of religion, Let me tell you one thing, I have met in the Army Arabs Moslems and Dross and Bedouins, why the hell would you think you would be discriminated on the bases of your girl friend being a Christine, and what would you be a Jew?:) I presume not, or am I incorrect? Swiss to tell you the trout I don?t know how foreigners get to be in the Israeli Army but it has been done, with foreign players of Israeli basketball teams! Don`t worry for a veteran such as you it would be a piece of cake to pass our basic training (you are Swiss aren`t you??.:? )

Swiss (Dino) What Does your Christian girl friend to do with it? Do you really bereave we discriminate on the bases of religion, Let me tell you one thing, I have met in the Army Arabs Moslems and Dross and Bedouins, why the hell would you think you would be discriminated on the bases of your girl friend being a Christine, and what would you be a Jew?:) I presume not, or am I incorrect? Swiss to tell you the trout I don?t know how foreigners get to be in the Israeli Army but it has been done, with foreign players of Israeli basketball teams! Don`t worry for a veteran such as you it would be a piece of cake to pass our basic training (you are Swiss aren`t you??.:? )

I wouldn?t say Y-net that represents YEDIOT AH^ONOT a newspaper that represents the Right that is new to me, especially when Mr. Dankner is the head editor of that newspaper, and his views are well known to the public threw TV programs as POPOLITIKA (he is Middle left) ! Infect what Dino will get by reading Haaretz and Ynet is something on the left side of the political map, I don?t know where Jerusalem post are placed in regards to the Israeli political chart but if it is like MARIVE that is the second popular paper after YEDIOT AH^ONOT then they are in the Middle Right! Haaretz although being the third popular newspaper after MARIVE is on the a radical left newspaper, and I do agree with you, the news Haaretz prints in Hebrew is different and the question should be asked why is it so? What is their hidden agenda? To whom wants to know YEDIOT AH^ONOT ? 1,517,00 readers per day MARIVE ? 800,000 readers per day HAARETZ ? 250,000 readers per day GLOBS ? 114,000 readers per day YATED NEMAN ? 74,000 readers per day HMODIA ? 73,000 readers per day HATZOFE ? 36,000 readers per day

Ma'an has a totally different report on this same incident. Ma'an reports, and I quote, "Israeli forces shot dead two brothers near Beit Hanoun in the northern Gaza Strip on Saturday, as they tried to prevent military bulldozers from destroying their land." Ma'an is a mandatory site for all objective observers of this conflict. It should also be noted the two contrasting pictures on Ha'aretz' site, which goes to show that even the liberal Ha'aretz newspapers cannot be entirely objective.

Israeli settlers assault Palestinian young men on al Hamra checkpoint Several Palestinian youth were assaulted by Israeli settlers on Friday midnight near al Hamra military checkpoint, south-east of the northern West Bank city of Jenin.Eyewitnesses reported that a group of Israeli settlers stopped a local car holding a Palestinian license plate near al Hamra checkpoint carrying a number of young men. Settlers forced them out of the car at gun point and started to beat them. Then they pushed them on the ground, insulted them with offensive words and threatened to kill them. The assaulted young men were taken to a nearby clinic and were treated for light injuries after the settlers released them. Soldiers at al Hamra checkpoints haev been using different methods to harras the Palestinians who need to pass through this military post. In addition, Israeli troops barred more than twenty international peace activists from entering city of Jenin as they were trying to reach some Palestinian villages in order to aid the residents in picking their olive trees, last week, in orchards that became isolated by the Annexation Wall.

Im not defending muslims, there is nothing to defend. Just pointing out your own problem in your vackyard. "And it won`t in the future, because here in Switzerland we have a non-ideological tradition of solving our conflicts at the ballot box and not with the gun." Yes things like that works when all is playing the same game, muslims arent. You will see in times coming.

Palestinian media sources announced Saturday death of two brothers in northern Gaza Strip, after the Israeli army opened fire on them near the Eritz checkpoint.Dr. Moawiya Abu Hasanain, chief of emergency and ambulance department at the Palestinian health ministry, identified the killed as Ra'fat and Talal Abu Shraina, 40 and 41. The health official confirmed that several bullets riddled in the victims' bodies, before they were pronounced dead. Witnesses said that both Ra'fat and Talal, were rushing towards their farm land after they were informed that the Israeli army bulldozers were razing the land. Witnesses added that the Israeli army opened fire at them, as they were attempting to prevent the bulldozers from razing their farmland. Israeli army has recently stepped up attacks on Palestinians in the Gaza Strip, particularly in northern Gaza, killing dozens of people, including resistance fighters, over the past four months.

tentative assumption:soldiers wouldn't shoot if they knew true situation.idf apologizes.compensation is offered(2 meagre providers).instead:idf offers grotesque fabrications.to some these undermine idf credibility in other instances.some hope their enormously expensive capabilities are better than their excuses.eg.:a place notorious for rocket firing?!visible crouching,invisible unarmed?ex territory.shooting blind?ie.no optics!than come idf defenders:military experts,mind you,with hails of bullets and similar tall tales.we have kids in idf,so we can't help knowing how they're equiped.this could rarely've happenned in my sparse times.any how,this is a tragic incident of the current situation,we do not need to justify it because that's the patriotic thing to do.we can employ said spokeswoman to offer condolences.for the first time.and if somone specifically screwed up,he should be removed to a desk job,or dischaeged.he could endanger his comrades.also-he should not be given a gun licens

enough.

you see a 5-6 years old child being raised to hate and fight?he's pretending to be a hamas terrorist opposing the peace summit.what a bunch of loonies the world has to deal with.there is no hope,there will be no peace,ever!

offer backschish to get into the IDF and you'll land up in prison with those farmers etc and see how harmless you find them. I'll come and visit you and bring you your posting neatly printed out and laminated. Hope you'll be in some condition to read it.

Remember the guy who committed the unforgivable crime of driving his car? Funny, I don't seem to remember Durson, Clickfool, Pop or any of the other pal mouthpieces speaking up against senseless violence THAT day. As long as the IDF is involved they can read all this from L.A. or Essex or wherever, and sit in judgement. Hypocrites.

Sounds like a movie to me...

You are making a very good point, Chanah. Usually one should really look out for the good old middle. I think I told you just recently that (most of) our Swiss (European) media represent that good old middle, namely being somewhere in between FOX NEWS and Al Jazeera. However, that middle between FOX NEWS and Al Jazeera is indeed Haaretz itself and not the middle between Haaretz and Jerusalem Post. You see, as soon as you (your newspapers) are party themselves to a conflict, the perspective is becoming a very different one. So the "middle" of the Israeli opinion doesn't automatically have to be the "middle" of the "neutral" opinion. I know, it's a bit complicated, but I hope you got my point....

Brant, is that a new hunting-strategy....??? Killing deer through heart-attack...??? :)

Gil, I am not questioning your words, there must be a reason why your prisons are flowing over with Palestinian inmates (mostly farmers and other rather harmless people....:). By the way, how can I join the IDF, if I already have a (Christian) girl friend....??? Maybe a little bit of "bakschisch" would help....????

Sure, pragmatist, the Arabs would have greeted us (Christians) with flowers 1948, if we would have tried to establish Vatican II there in the Holy Land. (Only) the swords of love would have "tickled" our throats. Keep on dreaming, buddy....:)

Crouching could have been crapping or planting explosives--Either way the pollute the land--

....anti-Extremism...:) Change your ways, Nephtaly, and you will get off my sight. Keep on with your ideological "madness", and you will remain a (very) legitimate "target".... P.S. I heard some rumours that all the right- wing homosexuals of this world came together last week. I think they met in a hotel room at the San Francisco Sheraton hotel. No call box this year, you guys really made some progress...:)

I have often wondered where the UN anti-child abuse committees are on this one. They seem to disappear where they are most needed. Not a word of condemnation for the use of children to promote terririst ideologies and war. Palestinian children are abused by their leaders (with parent's passive consent), suffer from trical and political in-fighting with absolutely no recourse to law or any kind of official protection, and also suffer from Israel incursions for the same reasons.

Haaretz online in English is a very selective website that only publishes those articles they consider of interest to the outside world - which is usually sensationalist in nature and, due to Haaretz's political line, ususally not flattering to israel. The Hebrew website and the hard edition (delivered to my doorstep) is quite different, as are other newspapers - see JPost online or YNETnews. Some would call these rightest - but as Haaretz is "leftist" - you would probably get a far more balanced view of Israel by reading all three.

Johnny, don't try to divert, I am afraid after your contributions of the past, you are not exactly suited to play the role of an advocate for the Muslim people. Compared to the folks in the Middle East (Israel included) we Swiss are a country of "atheists". As you Swedish are. The minarette story may not be very nice, but it hasn't costed a single drop of blood of anyone.... And it won't in the future, because here in Switzerland we have a non-ideological tradition of solving our conflicts at the ballot box and not with the gun.....

Cheer yourself up and have a good look at the brainwashed kid in the photograph and remember there are thousands more just like him, just "dying" to join Hamas Do these pictures look so different? With love from Israel! http://blogs.newamericamedia.org/images/186.jpg http://www.zionismontheweb.org/images/israeli-girls-bombs3_580x435.jpg http://img291.imageshack.us/img291/4032/israeligirlsgifts02580x435hk8.jpg Isn't that teaching children to hate?

LOVELY picture of a CHILD How nice they gave him a gun, And look they even gave him a real one with bullets in it! I wonder if you parents would allow you to handle a real gun at that age! Wonderful just wonderful!

I am astonished by the reporter or editor who wrote this piece, because they gun the boy is carrying is clearly a real gun and not a toy gun! Please rephrase!

We hardly ever read on HAARETZ, Well welcome to the party Dino A lot of things you won`t read on the Haaretz newspaper Since in Israel news is when some fuck-up happens! But rest a sure that we have more successes then fuck-ups, Meaning we catch more people on the way alive than kill them when not needed, Well how do you think all them WB and Gaza prisoners got to be prisoners in our jails in the first way? 400 released here, 200 released there, a 1000 released the next time from where? Most of them are not some petty thief?s but connected to terrorist organizations, and it sure gets my blood boiling to here that after all the effort put in to catching them criminals we release them! Sorry Dino if you want to know what really the IDF is doing in regard to success you won`t hear it on the Israeli new, you will just have to join the IDF in one of our combat units then you could really judge the actions of soldiers, and see how many people R caught before making terrorist act!

Only an idiot would approach a military border in a no-mans's land and NOT expect a bullet in the brain....especially when you do not identify yourself. Go on and tell us about the brave British naval personnel and how they acted in Iran. Talk about an empire in decline.

who defines suspicious?.... the idf? then every palestinian is suspicious..... thats why the idf kills without thought... kids.. women.. the lot. and you complain about palestinian terrorism...?

Never worry POP. Cheer yourself up and have a good look at the brainwashed kid in the photograph and remember there are thousands more just like him, just "dying" to join Hamas. This surely makes Allah very happy. no?

I don't want a palestinian to live near me, I do not want their culture within 1000 miles. They are a pest. Why - well look at their abuse of their children for one.

Viewing many pictures from various web sites, there are many homes owned by the Palestinian people that this "security fence" completely encompasses their homes by a matter of feet. Will the family living in such homes be shot dead for using the bathroom which is "near the fence"??? How does these families go and come without being shot?? It appears that the Palestinian people have NO RIGHTS on their own land according to the IDF. Stop all this madness the world is watching and more people are starting to research and read alternative news to find the truth in all the lies told to us by CONTOLLED media.

This is how I see it. A zone off limits for Palestinians because of the mal use of the area, two Palestinians farmers hunting for building materials risking to be shot and soldiers preventing just another " much too often " attack at Israelis. As combat soldiers, we have a norm we have to follow when suspicious individuals approach us. Before shotting, soldies are required to shout a warning at anyone approaching us followed by warning shots, and then if the suspects do not heath the warning, we open fire, this time not in the air. I while serving in the Hebron hills encountered famrmers all of all types, even those armed to the teeth looking to kill. Fair enough, the majority I encountered were real farmers who cooperated with IDF soldiers and sent on their way. Save us all from your, hidden .. well.. I'll let you finish the sentence.

sounds like you're a pair today.

The army has state-of-the art binoculars. It cas ascertain by 100% if the victims were farmers (civilians) or terrorists. The killers knew thery were shooting civilians. So, pls, try to be human and honest.

or maybe they had, trying to sneak over the border, plant a bomb (farmers do plant), test the reaction of the IDF. Good job IDF, Hamas should know better in the future than sending novice "farmers" where there is no farming

As we all know - since it has been reported thoroughly in european media last months - there is a big controversy in Switzerland over wether or not to tolerate the construction of more large mosques / minarets on top of the mosques. Many swiss citizens do not want that. Many politicians are against it. Secular? Different value systems? You have the problem in your own country now. now. People who do not tolerate the muslim way, and their values. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6676271.stm http://www.guardian.co.uk/religion/Story/0,,2188274,00.html http://www.iviews.com/Articles/articles.asp?ref=IC0706-3295 http://news.independent.co.uk/europe/article2938940.ece

This is a border area, and it is defended by military. If you try to sneak up in the dark against the guard posts, you run the high risk of getting shot. That is the same for border guards everywhere, and does not bring to mind any comparison to Nazis. I have served many times on the gaza strip, and we all have strict orders: Call out to the suspicious intruders out there in the dark, ask for them to stop and identify themselves with the password (ATZOR --SISMA) and if not, open fire, and protect the position. (see: Gilad Shalit)

The Haaretz censors are fine with the "F" word from Sarah, but that aside, all these anti-Israel rants need a little balance. The ONLY "war crimes" (jeez it would be great if you yahoos actually looked up what that means before making it a part of your loony lexicon) being committed daily in the area are the mortars and rockets fired by Hamas and IJ, helter skelter, aimed solely at Israeli civilians living in undisputed land that has never been part of occupied territory and is well inside Lakshmi's 1947 Partition Lines. Those acts ARE War Crimes. Now, as soon as you get as stirred up about them, feel free to go after the IDF (something that Hamas remains quite afraid to do).DINO: I've had the pleasure of accompanying a Swiss friend on a weekend reserve training in the Bernese Oberland. We crouched on our bellies on a rock outcropping and fired our rifles at the rocks and trees across a gorge. The noise was magnificent and I fear many innocent trees were left to die.

judging by the absurdity of the idf explanation-which my daughter could dismissingly refute-and which refutation would not bear censorship-i can only say:we've come a long way baby,a long way down.you might think killing arabs every now and then is not such a big deal,and in the historical perspective you may be right,but soldiers like that are usually the kind you don't want on your team,for all sorts of reasons.

LET'S NOT FORGET TO MENTION THESE PALESTINIAN MEN JUST SO HAPPENED TO HAVE BEEN ON THEIR OWN LAND while crouching. Being shot and killed for being too near the "fence" on your OWN land is a WAR CRIME. IF I owned 200 acres of land and my neighbor decided I was his enemey, seizes (STEALS IT BY FORCE) 175 acres of it, constructs a WALL around MY property then has the GALL to demand that I cannot come within 1500 ft of it (MY OWN LAND) so it all boils down to I NO LONGER HAVE LAND. I am basically a caged in animal with NO rights. But yet israel is the victim here??? Poor Poor israel????

LET'S NOT FORGET TO MENTION THESE PALESTINIAN MEN JUST SO HAPPENED TO HAVE BEEN ON THEIR OWN LAND while crouching. Being shot and killed for being too near the "fence" on your OWN land is a WAR CRIME. IF I owned 200 acres of land and my neighbor decided I was his enemey, seizes (STEALS IT BY FORCE) 175 acres of it, constructs a WALL around MY property then has the GALL to demand that I cannot come within 1500 ft of it (MY OWN LAND) so it all boils down to I NO LONGER HAVE LAND. I am basically a caged in animal with NO rights. But yet israel is the victim here??? Poor Poor israel????

What the fuck has become of you? You are acting no better then the original Nazis. Don't you understand that you are losing your next generation?

Hamas begins perverting young children in the ways of terror ',death,shooting,stabbing and bomb making at an early age.They will then grow up to be terrorists or farmers,it is so difficult to tell the difference.Either way,Hamas has created an atmosphere of hate and bloodshed.Israeli soldiers are absolutely right in taking no chances whatsoever.

Only JEWS matter. Look over there... he's crouching, he could be eating a pistachio nut, shoot him, everyone, FIRE!!

Real Swiss, as you should know by now, once in a while one should take my words with a pinch of salt....:) I don't believe for a second that the Swiss army would do much better if confronted with a simi- lar situation. However, I do believe indeed that if the Swiss voters would have found themselves in the same situation as the Israelis over the past decades, they probably would have shown a bit more (political) wisdom to force their governements into accepting (painful) compromises than the Israeli people did. And that has one (main) reason: The non-existence of ideological thinking in Switzerland, or in other words, the secular face of our country.

Avi, teacher, I have no doubt that those rules of engagement are taught by the IDF. The problem is that they are obviously not always applied the way they should be. We hardly ever read on Haaretz of arrested "militants/farmers" or slightly wounded ones along the fence, but very often about killed ones. And I'm afraid that stands in rather sharp contrast to the rules Avi mentioned in his post. And as teacher said, that is rather an expression of "raw nerves", "ovestress" and "inexperience" than a question of bad will. The only way to end that everlasting PR-disa- ster: Make peace with your neighbours, at least with those who are reaching their hands (Abbas)....

According to western News agencies, the two were walking in their farm. Brothers. The two were killed by snipers. The soldiers apparently knew they were killing farmers.

The IDF are a Thugs & Goons. Poorly trained slobs. Indoctrinated Terrorists. Murdering Religious Extremists.

The IDF are a Thugs & Goons. Poorly trained slobs. Indoctrinated Terrorists. Murdering Religious Extremists.

The IDF are a Thugs & Goons. Poorly trained slobs. Indoctrinated Terrorists. Murdering Religious Extremists.

The IDF are a Thugs & Goons. Poorly trained slobs. Indoctrinated Terrorists. Murdering Religious Extremists.

This area probably needs to be mined. Big signs posted "Danger: minefield !" Oh no, then the world will complain that Israel is using mines. Here's the thing -- you come over to my secure position, sneaking along in the dark, you will be shot by me, if you don't know the "password" Yes, we routinely demand very loudly to all suspicious intruders (ATZOR -- SISMA) to identify themselves. No identification response, you will get a hail of bullets. It's a really simple procedure, and I'm pretty sure every military follows it.

THESE AREAS ARE IN VERY HIGH SECURITY. PLEASE TERRORISTS STAY AWAY. YOU HAVE A CHOISE, TRY AND YOU GONNA SEE. GOOD JOB BOYS, DON'T FAIL LIKE POOR SHALIT. KILL FIRST ASK LATER. GOOD PAL IS A DEAD PAL. NO TO PLO STATE, NEVER.

The IDF are a Thugs & Goons. Poorly trained slobs. Indoctrinated Terrorists. Murdering Religious Extremists.

A much more accurate Haaretz headline. The bottom line is that the Israelis just don't care how many innocent Palestinians they slaughter. Shoot first, ask questions after. They're only Palestinians, not Jews. And, of course, no-one in the IDF is ever punished for being sloppy, casual, undisciplined or trigger-happy.

We Israelis must be frank with ourselves. We are child killers and farm killers and student killers..we criminals. The fact that our victims are goyem doesn't make our crimes lesser and less barbaric. Barbarism doesn't become kosher when committed by Jewish hands.

Besides a few slanders and adding Jordan to your 'historic conspiracy' you haven't answered my question.

"Farmers" crouching near the security fence? Haaretz must not worry,given changing israeli demographics,secular will vanish while more traditional and religious jews will prevail And good ridddance haaretz for good Editors might begin to send their resumes to makor hayim or jerusalem post LOL

So you admit that Palestine existed long before Jordan and Israel were created. Good start! Now stop justifying murder and become human again!!!!

Sorry Dino, I was an officer in the Swiss Army. I guess all our soldiers couldnt cope better with terrorism than the IDF. Bear in mind; the soldiers have a choice between the fate of Gilad Shalit or shouting in any case of doubt. The Gazans have accepted Hamas; the also have to bear the consequences, as unpleasant as they are.

Israel was established on the blood and ruin of the Palestinian people. Jordan was created with the same sinful conspiracy 3 years before Israel because the Hashemites where thrown out of Saudi for their treason and needed a people to rule over. They tried in Syria and Iraq as well but failed and were subsequently thrown out. Golda Meir assured Abudllah the first when he inquired about over what he would rule in Jordan, she said do not worry we will send you a population to rule over hence the disposition o the Palestinian people and settling them in Jordan during the catastrophe and the 67 war. So take your distorted history and stick where the sun don't shine. You try to justify murder. Way to go! Free Palestine Now! Of morons like you too

Dino, I'm willing to try: Ahum, hey, you! over th-*shot in the neck*. They were in a military area, off limits for Palestinians, acting suspicious and moving towards an army unit. Though I don't know what really happened there compared to what the newspaper says but IDF rules are to ask, threaten, eventually shoot to neutralize the target, and eventually kill if it does not corporate (and you know what I mean). And for now they're still likely militants, some of the people here know this yet still call the soldiers murderers. Ronald, could you please enlighten me and draw a map of your Palestine? You say 'free' but I'm not sure what to free since it never existed. West Bank and east Jerusalem were Jordanian territories and Gaza Egyptian. What was the last Palestinian government before Israel was born?. Jordan is your Palestine, it was born out of the same Mandate as Israel was, 3 years before Israel to be exact. Though the King would never allow that after they tried a coup in 1970.

When the IDF gets away with murder on one occassion, it proves that the IDF is corrupt. When the IDF gets away with murder on several occassions, it proves that the government leadership is corrupt. When the IDF gets away with murder dozens of times, it proves that the nation of Isral is corrupt. During the current calendar year, the IDF has killed more than 30 Palestinian civilians, including 8 children. Israelis call Hamas murderers, but in order to find the real murderers, simply follow the trail of bodies.

It is not about skills but bad nerves and huge fear. Peace up all dead!

The cold blooded murder of Palestinians continues. It is business as usual in Israel. Israelis' apathy to murder is unique. Way to go! Free Palestine Now! and Stop Murdering People!

Shooting crouching people - no evidence of arms mentioned - reflects the morality of the most moral army and the Only Democracy in the Middle East.

You get shot for going close to a fence, in your farm and you crouch (after all, what kind of farmers go on their farms and crouch)? CROUCH! THEY CROUCHED! Bastards deserved what they got didnt they.. from the Jewish Army, the young Jewish boy thought he'd get himself an Arab for Shabbat. I dont mean to sound anti-semitic but thats what it was, a Jewish boy killed 2 innocent people on their property on Shabbat. Israel has long ceased to be a Jewish state, there maybe plenty of Jews but no Jewish values. Israel has become a zealous entity... like before. Did the holocaust and all that came before it negate Jewish wisdom? Maybe thousands of years of persecution was traumatic enough to do that. Am Yisrael Chai! (however many there are truely left)

...to Israel in order to teach the obviously hopelessly overtaxed IDF youths a thing or two about the rule of "asking before shooting". Could save (lots of ) innocent lifes. To be fair, it's not always easy to make the right decision in the course of a few seconds, but this kind of "stuff" just happened a little bit too often over the past weeks. A little bit "much too often"....