Two Palestinians, including one militant, killed in IDF Nablus raid

It's a sickening subject, so-called honour killings, I Googled it and saw pictures I couldn't bear to look at...this is Sharia law, and they've brought it to England like I told you...9/11 has infected the Muslims there too..."honour killing" is something I honestly think we simply cannot understand...I read a book about a Palestinian father living in America who stabbed to death his daughter, with the help of his South American wife (first wife still living in WB)..luckily for justice, the FBI had listening devices in the home, thinking the family had ties with terrorists...instead, what a horror the FBI and police heard on the tape. Some of it was played on tv but not all of it, it was too horrifying to put on tv...the man went to jail and died there, escaping the death penalty, the mother(every bit as guilty) is in jail, but the sisters of the dead girl encouraged her murder, can you believe this?

I did and found lot's about "Honor Killings", as an example--Girl get raped by her brother/s or father and is killed to atone for their sins against her--Mother slits daughters throat because daughter wouldn't slit her own wrists and commit suicide because her brothers raped her--Just GOOGLE it, you'll find loads--

...painful to read and the pictures are almost worse; the young Pakistani girl murdered by her father in Italy..you know I told you my mother sends me newspapers from England showing these so-called "honor killings" and she angrily says that the English police don't know how to deal with them..the murderers get caught mostly and go to jail, but the girl is dead...the Pakistanis in England didn't used to be like this, they never made trouble before 9/11 like this; radical militant extremist fundamentalist Islam has affected them all..big problems ahead..however, don't see much about the Palestinians on the site, who are what I want to know more about...

so I hadn't sent the link---However, here it is, makes for a LOT of reading---Note the counter on the main page-- http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/

"In my next post, I`m going to send you a link ONLY, the information is too comprehensive for me to copy" Okay, waiting....

I reviewed the Mandate's allocation of land to Jordan, they received 77% instead of the 75 that I had originally thought--Look, they weren't happy the first time around--Israel lost many of her finest youth in a series of wars---That partition plan is dead, the Arabs drove a stake through it's heart--It can't be revived as it was--Bigger heads than ours will have the final say---In my next post, I'm going to send you a link ONLY, the information is too comprehensive for me to copy---The Muslim problem isn't restricted to the ME--It's worldwide, Asia, Europe, America and any place else they've set up shop---

The Arabs should have accepted the Partition Plan, badly divided out as it was. What about if the exact same partition of the land could be offered now? Would it be acceptable? There would have to be changes made to account for some discrepancies, such as the three hundred settlements now in the WB. I still think the population exchange would be best...if the Gazans could live in the WB and the settlers go to Gaza. That would make more sense geographically...as it is, Palestinians and Israelis are in separate groups, and as long as the settlements remain in the WB, the IDF will be there too, controlling the Palestinians in the WB, which means it is not truly Palestinian territory...Honestly, I can't see a really viable solution...cynics say that Israel does not want a two state solution because then the borders would be clearly defined, which would prevent more settlement expansion. However, I can't believe that...constant low-grade warfare is doing no-one any good on either side...

The Jews weren't particularly happy, but they accepted the UN Partition Plan as it was laid out---IF, and that's a big word, the Arabs had accepted their state, everyone would have lived happily ever after---However, the Arabs refused to accept the Plan, even though Jordan had already received 75% of the British Mandated areas---So, war ensued and still hasn't stopped---Jews have, while under constant threat or attack, built a viable infrastructue and manufacturing base, while Arabs have rotted in refugee camps by their own choice---Existing on a daily diet of donated food and the bile they generate---

I can't see Lebanon on the map, no... If you look at Map 3, The United Nations Partition Plan of 1947, with the proposed Jewish state and the proposed Arab state. Also included are nine settlements in the proposed Arab state. When you look at this map, it looks as if the the land is divided more or less equally, but I don't like the way it is divided out. The Arab state is slap bang in the middle of the Jewish state, and there are these nine settlements in the Arab state. It's an awkward division to look at on paper. What do you think?

It was part of the "OTTOMAN EMPIRE", that's why--Next, I'll expect you to nitpick over every name--It didn't officially become the State of Israel until 5/15/48, when the State was declared---While you're looking, see if you can find Lebanon--I don't think you will, it was a part of Syria---

See that, what a twit I am, I didn't realise it was a series of maps! Okay, I'll look at all of them as a series... Now the thing is, while on paper your plan is fair enough, in practice it wouldn't be easy to implement, surely. Because who is going to remind Jordan that as they received 75% of the British Mandate and Israel received 25% therefore all the Palestinians should move to Jordan? Suppose, though, this happened..that leaves Gaza and the WB empty(except for settlements)so that will mean that Israel will acquire that land, which will throw off the 75%/25% split which would be needed to persuade Jordan to accept the Palestinians. I don't see a way around that one...do you?

"There always was an Israel--The Romans made a name change, that didn`t effect our prayers and aspirations---Judea was always Judea, land of the Jews" What I meant was, I didn't see the name "Israel" on the map, like you do on modern maps. I had wondered before why, when the state was created, the name "Judea" was not used, Judea, land of the Jews as you say. I had read about the fact that the Jews-before Israel was a state-had drained swampland and made it fertile, also, that they brought the land into production where before it was almost useless.

If you'll look at the bottom of the first page, the maps progress through the years, with different layouts according to the time span they cover---As to your question, it's really easy...The Arabs received the hogs portion, Jordan---To the naked eye it looks like about 75% of the original British Mandate---Israel has the remaining 25%---To each his own, Arabs to Jordan, Israel stays where it's at, as is--- Israel set the standard for development, all the Arabs have to do is copy it and throw their guns away---Guns don't grow food---

"PALESTINE MAPS ? OTTOMAN 1900 TO-DATE http://www.npr.org/news/specials/mideast/history/map1.html" The above, that you gave me, is what I'm looking at. Although I never doubted for a moment what you'd told me about the history of the Holy Land. My point has always been, yes, but that is then, and I don't dispute it. But what happens now? To the Palestinians and to Israel...

Quneitra, was a Syrian town in the Golan, which they lost in the 1967 war--Jewish settlement, of course, the land was BOUGHT from absentee Arab landowners---Most of the old settlement land you are looking at was swampland, which the Jews drained and made fertile--Importing foreign Arab labor to work the land---Until the Jews drained the swamps, mosquitoes wee the main crop and malaria was rampant---Jewish industry & talent turned wasteland into something worthwhile---To this day, Israel exports her farming technology worldwide--Quite a few African countries are using it---There always was an Israel--The Romans made a name change, that didn't effect our prayers and aspirations---Judea was always Judea, land of the Jews---

I hope you're looking at the NPR set of maps--- They shop the area in varying stages from 1900 Ottoman, to the present time---Look at each one, you'll see how the British abused the Mandate to serve their purposes---Giving the vast portion to the Hashemite Emir Abdullah as a reward---Go into the various texts--As usuual, I've given you "Neutral Sources"---

When a building is to be bulldozed, warning is given--At times the residents refuse to move because they think that their remaining will immunize the building---Iraq has nothing to do with it---Different time, different circumstances--Let's stop with the killing all around--No bombs & rockets, NO retaliation--- When the IDF goes in, the have damn good intelligence, supplied by Arabs that are bribed and eager for the buck---When rockets are fired into Israel, the enemy isn't considering overkill, they want as much destruction as they can get---

Here I am, looking at the OTTOMAN 1900 TO-DATE map. The land certainly looks different from today. Can't see the West Bank for one thing, Syria and Lebanon sort of run into what is now Israel, see a town I never heard of, "Quneitra"...and I see five Jewish settlements..what are they doing there? I thought there were no settlements until after 1967...no, this must be because at this time there was no Israel...so, who was living in the land around the settlements? Was that the Palestinians? Says, anti-zionist newspapers published between 1908-1914 protesting Jewish land purchase, that must mean, the settlements? It's odd how different it looks...

Of course I agree that the bombs should not be made. I don't want to see any terrorist attacks carried out. But we need to proceed from facts, and the fact is, some are being made. When they are detected, why is it not important to the IDF that innocent Palestinians, not involved in the bomb-making, are kept safe? The troops go house to house in Iraq without using bulldozers to bash down the walls of houses...don't the IDF realise that this amount of overkill, so to speak-damaged, destroyed houses and property of people not even involved-only makes them hated all the more and thus encourages even more bomb making? Or, even worse, don't they care?

IDF acted properly, they went to the source, where the belts were being made---That place became a military installation as soon as it became a bomb factory---Nobody was doing to go in on foot, copters gave overhead protection, helps deter fire from rooftops & windows..Copters also make a great observation point---Bulldoze, help to remove the structure used for the bomb making and also facilitates removing walls when troops have to go house to house---When the soldiers go through holes in the walls, that's so much safer than manuvering through narrow streets and alleyways---I'll make it real easy, don't make bombs, then there's no reason to remove that particular house...Make the bomb, the removal is an essential and necessary---

...about the seized explosive belt intended to be used in a Tel Aviv bomb attack. But it didn't happen, because the Israeli police did the correct thing; they detected it and removed it. The way the Israeli police acted is the right way to stop a terrorist attack, not the IDF going into a Palestinian town with jeeps, tanks, helicopters, for goodness sake, a bulldozer...

First URL shows you how Arabs have stooped to indoctrinating 4 year old, plus much more--Video links---Second a pretty good set of NPR maps from the Ottoman 1900 to-date, plus lots of explantions you can link to---It helps to know what you're talking about when we're discussing this-- SILVIENNE ? SOME INTERESTING KID VIDEOShttp://www.pmw.org.il/tv%20part3.html PALESTINE MAPS ? OTTOMAN 1900 TO-DATE http://www.npr.org/news/specials/mideast/history/map1.html

There was a homicide bombing in Eilat in Jan.2007---During this past Yom Kippur, less than a month ago, homicide bombers were detected and caught in Tel Aviv, before they had a chance to set off their bomb---If attacks didn't come off, it certainly wasn't because the Arabs weren't trying---In your mind, it seems that retaliation is only justified if they've killed somebody or as many as possible---It doesn't work that way, prevention is far better than allowing them to blow up innocents---Nasblus has been a terror center, more attacks have emanated from there than from almost any other place---By the way, Kassam's are bombs with fins--Here's a bit on the Yom Kippur bombing that was foiled---Again, before you say years and years, check your facts, they're lacking and you're distorting what you have-- "Police thwart suicide bombing in Israel Cabinet to vote today on freeing 100 Palestinians By Reuters | September 23, 2007 JERUSALEM - Israeli police seized an explosive belt that was intended to be used in a Tel Aviv suicide bomb attack on the Jewish holy day of Yom Kippur, a police spokesman said yesterday

You might that very same question of your Arab friends, who blow up pizza parlors, busses, and whatever else they can place a bomb in, WITHOUT giving any advance notice---Let's put it this way, the Irgun accomplished making the British so apprehensive that they finally threw in the towel and quit---The very same thing your Arabs are attempting to do---If you really want an opinion, ask them--- First, you'll have to look up the reasons the Stern & Irgun were formed---It you'll take the time and bother, it was because of prior Arab terror and attacks---The same reason the Haganah was formed---The Irgun and Stern weren't satisfied the the Haganah's method of operation, that's why they were formed--Many of them were ex-Haganah members---You certainly can't say the the Arabs haven't attempted to do as much damage as they could---I recall the wedding in a hotel filled with people, that was blown up, among other things---

The IDF are well-aware that they may meet 'resistance' when operating in the WB. The fact that they do it anyway, at great risk to their soldiers, shows how great a need they feel to act - realistically - to prevent terror attacks on Israelis. The day there are no bomb factories, or other attacks, is the day the IDF can tell its soldiers to stand down, and real peaceful coexistence begins.

I certainly don't expect Israel "sit on its hands and do nothing", and I acknowledge "Israel's right to defend itself" But I also support the Palestinians right to defend themselves also. No Kassams are fired from the WB and there's been no bombing or terrorist attack in Israel for a very long time now. Therefore, the IDF had no right to be in Nablus, and the Palestinians had every right to fight them. You mention the International Community...are you aware of the many condemnations the International Community has made about Israel's behaviour in the WB and Gaza?

I know very well what firebombs aka molotov cocktails are capable of...I've seen one thrown and explode in a London street. It creates an enormous sheet of flame, and it's terrifying. You notice I didn't mention the ages of the Palestinians who seem responsible for the firebombing. If the IDF kept out of the Palestinian towns like Nablus, this wouldn't happen. You say, stop the terror, what terror? There hasn't been a bombing in Israel for years, due probably to the Wall as you say. If the IDF enter these towns, they will be resisted with violence. They are entering another country, in a way, and they are not welcome.

Does it make it acceptable to destroy a building just because you've given "more than adequate notice and warning" that a bomb had been planted? That was another IRA tactic; when I worked at the Social Security building in London we were always getting "bomb threats" and had to evacuate the building fifty times a month some months. There never was a bomb, instead, a nearby pub was blown up. That's terrorist tactics, ben; keep people off balance and waiting and thus disrupt their lives. I don't think you'd consider it okay if an IDF Military Headquarters building or a Tel Aviv hotel was blown up by Palestinians just because they'd given adequate notice and warning. But I'm not surprised that you don't consider the actions of the Stern Gang and Hagannah Jewish terrorism; I expected more from you but am not shocked. It seems as if only terrorism against Jews is terrorism to you. I am disappointed.

The "raids" are reactions to acts of terror---They're the result, not the cause---First comes the cause, then the result---Stop the terror and the raids will cease---I noticed the photo seems to show "children", the same one you're always claim are "just children" and devoid of responsibility---The way they're posing over the bulldozer, it certainly look like they were responsible, doesn't it??--Fire bomb, a bottle with gasoline, a rag hanging from the spout, lit and thrown, reminds us of the rocks you always claimed that couldn't hurt the tanks or soldiers---In world war two, fire bombs of this primitive construction were callled "Molotov Cocktails"---So much for the presumption that primitive devices can't be destructive, they most certainly are.--

You're letting loose with accusations, without checking facts--Here's a bit of what happened to the King David Hotel, why it was done, and who done it---It took but a few seconds to come up with facts and eliminate conjecture--- The King David Hotel was the site of the British military command and the British Criminal Investigation Division. The Irgun chose it as a target after British troops invaded the Jewish Agency June 29, 1946, and confiscated large quantities of documents. At about the same time, more than 2,500 Jews from all over Palestine were placed under arrest. The information about Jewish Agency operations, including intelligence activities in Arab countries, was taken to the King David Hotel"

Yes, let's not forget the King David Hotel, what you fail to mention is that it was the British Military Headquarters, and they were given more than adequate notice & a warning to get out because a bomb had been planted---They refused to pay heed---I think you should check into your facts and find out which Jewish organization bombed the King David---When the IDF pursues terrorists the cross lines, in the same manner the terrorists crossed the lines when they performed their acts.---Terror is a two way street, you can't perform it in one direction and not expect that you won't be apprehended by the people who you have harmed---It's called "Hot Pursuit"---

You paint such a horrible picture and its all wrong. Palestinians have done nothing...zilch, to stop terror cells from operating in gaza and the WB. their leaders make empty promises to halt qassam attacks and suicide bombings, but to no avail. israel is still terrorized daily by the palestinian cells. Now, if you expect Israel to sit on its hands and let this terror go with no response or retaliation, then you are trully mad. The fact that these areas are run by Palis means nothing. The international community acknowledges ISRAEL'S RIGHT TO DEFEND ITSELF. If that means going after terror scum then so be it. palestinians will always pay the price for not stoping terror. Plain and simple!!!

Murray, where you in your own country when the detectives converged armed and you took off? Because if so, I'd do the same exactly. The difference is that the IDF are in someone else's city. Nablus is Palestinian. Of course the Palestinians are going to fight the IDF. "People who want peace and realize that the Israelis are not there for the peaceful people but for the militants/terrorists who dream to kill Israelis" Do you honestly think that ordinary Palestinians, seeing a convoy of IDF jeeps, tanks, a bulldozer for goodness sake, entering their town - again - are going to think, "Ah, that's okay then. They are here to arrest bad people"...every day innocent Palestinians in the WB see themselves humiliated by the IDF and their property demolished, their infrastructure ruined. You're saying you'd do nothing if a foreign army came smashing into your town?

"If u had a bomb factory in your house, and the CT police came to shut it down, I doubt very much you'd have the guts to throw a firebomb at them" Don't automatically assume such a thing, Polybios. You don't know the histories of the people here. However, the CT police would have a perfect right to arrest me and demolish the bomb factory, as you say, I'd have no right to have such a thing. The difference is that this is the military of one country, the IDF, invading Palestinian land. The IDF should not be in Palestinian land. As for being realistic, Polybios, I am not denying there are bomb factories or whatever in the WB. But it's the IDF who need to be realistic if they think they are not going to be met with Palestinian resistance when they make an "incursion" into a Palestinian town. Remember, these Palestinians were not in Israel. They were at home.

"Not much death and misery has been coming from Nablus lately. The only reason for this is because of these IDF incursions" Yes, that is very true. As I've said before, the Palestinians are the ones doing the dying. As for the historical events you describe, I believe them all, yes. But don't forget the King David Hotel the Jewish organisation Hagannah bombed, killing many British people. In the past, the Jewish people have known how to be "terrorists" as well...Nablus is Palestinian land. If the IDF enter it, complete with bulldozers, tanks, helicopters etc., it may indeed stop the Palestinian terrorism, but the IDF needn't expect that the Palestinians won't defend their land.

"Why was the IDF in Nablus?" To arrest militants before they become terrorists. "Why did they bring a bulldozer?" For cover. "How can anyone blame the Palestinians for slinging a firebomb at it" You complain about youths being killed. If youths would not sling firebombs less youths would be killed "I would do the same if a bulldozer accompanied by foreign soldiers came to destroy my apartment building." I would run in the opposite direction when I saw them coming as they are better armed and I am not stupid. "The IDF and its supporters have to be realistic...if they make these "incursions" or "raids" into Palestinian land, don`t expect the residents not to fight back. Who wouldn`t?" People who want peace and realize that the Israelis are not there for the peaceful people but for the militants/terrorists who dream to kill Israelis. Years ago I was in an area and many detectives converged armed with automatic weapons. I took off in the opposite direction. Sane people should do exact that

The people of Myamar do not protest by blowing themselves up or firing qassams at other people.

and his ilk. For the same reason, the Israelis are entitled to kill the Al-Aqsa Murderers Brigades and their ilk.

Silvienne, Nablus has a rich history. Sadly, much of it is bloody and wretched. Remember the Passover massacre in Netanya in which 30 innocent civilians were murdered and 140 wounded? The explosive belt for that atrocity was produced in Nablus. Have you ever heard of the sacred jewish site Joseph's Tomb? It is in Nablus, and the palestinians promised to protect it. Instead, it was ransacked and an American-born Rabbi who taught there was slain. Do the research yourself, and you'll see it's well populated with fanatical terrorists who use it as a base in their quest for heavenly virgins. Speaking for myself, if I was a resident there suffering from the consequences of lawlessness and misery created by the terrorists, I would be inclined, like so many other decent palestinians, to inform the IDF of where these depraved individuals lived. Not much death and misery has been coming from Nablus lately. The only reason for this is because of these IDF incursions.

logorrhea!: excessive and often incoherent talkativeness or wordiness

If u had a bomb factory in your house, and the CT police came to shut it down, I doubt very much you'd have the guts to throw a firebomb at them. But even if you did, you would not be justified. You have no right to create a bomb-factory in your home. You have to be realistic, sweetie. Realistically, bomb factories and rockets do exist in the WB and Gaza. Realistically, it's the PA's job to root them out and close them down. Realistically, if the PA won't do it, guess who must...

There's a shell-game afoot and he doesn't want to notice. On the one hand, the Pals are an indispensable and integral part of the Arab nation, entitled to live in an eternal, united, Arab homeland, and the concern of every good Muslim. On the other, the Pals are a distinct entity, completely isolated from the Muslim Brotherhood and pre-existing Arab cultural influences and violence, who need their own country ONLY because the other Arabs countries won't accept most of them as citizens. Ironic.

No wonder that almost every day one or two get killed and others arrested. Thanks to the IDF. I can only imagine what would happen if the brave Israeli soldiers did not hunt down the terrorists every day.

I am also a European and think Americans and Israelis have the right to kill terrorists. Besides, they are doing us all a favor. The terrorist who murdered van Gogh has been sent to prison but when the security forces cannot catch a terrorist, they have to kill him. It would be idiotic to leave him alive so he can murder more innocent.

one a militant, the other a civilian. Why was the IDF in Nablus? Why did they bring a bulldozer? How can anyone blame the Palestinians for slinging a firebomb at it...I would do the same if a bulldozer accompanied by foreign soldiers came to destroy my apartment building. The IDF and its supporters have to be realistic...if they make these "incursions" or "raids" into Palestinian land, don't expect the residents not to fight back. Who wouldn't?

Thank you for your compliment. I admire your posts as well - they are logical, well informed and passionate. Regarding criticize responsibly's post, isn't it interesting that someone who has such a command of the language of logic could believe the cause of Palestinian terrorism is something that came after such terrorism had been running rampant for such a long time?

The article says the Al-Aqsa murderers Brigades traded fire with the IDF.

Have you seen what a coincidence? The man left his house just in time and the terrorists were trading fire or ready to do it when he left.

Wasnt Abbas supposed to be moderate? Why doesnt he dismantle his terrorist organizations?

how come you believe the evil IDF that the civilian was killed if they are so untrust worthy

The Mohammed Dura hoax is coming to an end and is soon to go down in flames in a Paris courtroom of all places. 'Dead' bodies falling off stretchers and getting back on by themesleves is a palestinian trademark. Before whenever a palestinian was shot dead, Israel accepted blame without hesitation. Finally seven years late, Israel is finally wising up and not rushing to say 'we did it!'. Palestinian gunmen shoot either from behind a wall with thier weapon in one hand firing aimlessly at a general area and by spraying and not aiming. That is why so few IDF are killed and so many Arab civilians are. The number of dead palestinians shot by their own criminals is much higher than anyone would believe.

The occupation is absolutely a result of Muslim terrorism and Supremacism (I agree it can't all be blamed on the PALs, but other Muslims are definitely to blame here). No causal fallacies involved. Just cause and effect. The "violent resistance" of which U wrote existed before there was an Israel, and was perhaps the most significant external factor in shaping the modern Israeli state. The Tel Hai massacre in 1920, the Hebron massacre in 1929, the anti-Jewish riots in 1936-9, the rejection of partition in 1947. The invasion in 1948 timed for when the British pulled out. Further back - look at the assassination of Saud Ad Daulah c. 1291, and the subsequent massacre of Iraqi Jews. Look at the terrorist policies of the Almoravides and Almohades. Or, maybe the creation of the Muslim Brotherhood in 1928 to recreate the Caliphate. The PLO was created in 1964, before the 'occupation' of the WB and Gaza. What was it supposed to "liberate" in 1964 if not ALL of Israel?

Unfortunately, it is not going to happen unless the Palestinians in Palestine realize it. What does the future hold? Abbas is a wonderful leader with vision. I seem to recall that he received his PhD in Moscow. His area of expertise is the history of Zionism. Abbas claimed that the Nazis killed "only a few hundred thousand Jews," rather than six million. His doctorate in history researched supposed connections between the Zionist movement and Nazism. He is said to have been responsible for financing the 1972 attack on Israeli athletes in the Munich Olympics. Sounds like a real winner! I hope that he has learned from his mistakes.

One day or the other, they will run out.

#31. You commit a causal fallacy. Your suggestion that "Palestinian terror" is the cause of occupation is a false equivocation. The need to expand settlements, carry out Zionism's scheme, and the aquisition of Palestinian water aquifers play a major role in the occupation, which lead to violent resistance and, unfortunatly, terrorism. Terrorism is a weapon used by the weak and disenfranchised...multiple peoples throughout history have used it, including Jews and Zionist Jews. In the Palestinian case, like many other cases throughout history, terrorism is the symptom, not the diagnosis of the problem.

How do we know that Petra was cheering the death of a 72 yr old? Perhaps she was cheering the death of a combattant? There is no such thing as a "typical" American. Some of them are in prison for sexually molesting children and others make major contributions in medicine that save the lives of children. The same goes for the Dutch, the Israelis, etc. The current photo with the story has as its caption the fact that youths have thrown a fire bomb at an Israeli bulldozer. (It only takes one to throw a firebomb.)I do not think (or at least I hope)that anyone posting here welcomes the deaths of any innocents. I find it sad that a youth would throw a firebomb because soldiers under attack are going to fire on anyone posing a threat to them. Should we mourn the death of a youth who is trying to kill people? It is war, and the sooner that it ends, the better for all concerned.

Palestininas need to abandon their roles as terror supporters and start thinking about a peaceful future for their kids. Instead of brainwashing and teching their kids to hate via farfur, they need to educate them in medicine, lliterature, arts etc. Their whole culture is based on hatred and lies. What kind of future do they give thier kids??? I have a Palestinian friend here in the US who is well educated and understands that his people need to give up terror, or they will never see a happy life.

Rational arguments; conclusions logically based on factual permises; just the sort of thing Stephen Murray won't accept. Well done, nonetheless.

So anyone paying attention should be able to see that he's just another hit-and-run poster without a shred of intellectual honesty.

#30, you say that occupation leads to resistance, but you never ask what led to the occupation? Palestinians refuse to give up terror. They continue to fire rockets into Israel, attempt to sneak in and blow themselves up in Israel's malls, brainwash their kids to hate and aspire to become martyrs etc. This is true ignorance on a cultural level which has to be stopped. Your unwarranted accusations against Israel, a country trying to defend its people from a death-loving culture, only show one thing...IGNORANCE!

Is "Pal Terrorism" citizens resisting their houses being illegally bulldozed by Israeli's? These "terrorists" are resisting their houses being demolished against UN law. Occupation breeds resistance. It would be interesting to see all the Americans or Israelis react to an unjust foreign occupation on their soil, then criticize them for acting "irrationaly" and "uncivilized" on these stupid blogs.

Very funny Dav May be you are one of them with a Kalachnikov in your pocket

We know that there must be innocent Palestinians since you say there are but all we see are rockets launched at us. We see no friendship. Nobody tells us where Gilad Shalit is being hidden.

How are the Israelis to differentiate between the innocent Palestinians and those who are not? This is a real problem for all involved...

Petra from the US just read a 72-year old was shot and killed while leaving his house and here she goes cheering and posting what a wonderfull job IDF is doing. That is sickening and typical American. Dutch do not act like that.

One day there will be a palestinian authority that recognizes that these terrorists are criminals and will act in a criminal manner in any state they exist in. Not at first perhaps but when they don't get 'what is coming to them' they will take what they want. The stupidity of the present PA which admires and supports these thugs will come back to bite them. They have proven who they are by making Arab civilians, restuarant owners and especially Christian Arabs cower before them in the past. They enjoy instilling fear in others. Thugs and nothing but thugs. Israel is doing everyone a favor by getting them off the streets.

It is obvious that keeping the militants off balance keeps them from comitting acts of terror in Israel. On the other hand, as you mention the actions of the IDF alienate the Palestinian Population. So Israel is damned if they do and the same if they don't. What do you recommend?

The Al Aqsa Brigades is a recognized terrorist organization, its members deserve to be shot when they are planning attacks against Israeli civilians. And as for the elderly civilian who was killed, if you read the article instead of spewing your anti-Jewish hatred - you would see that it is not known who shot him. Have a nice day.

Explain if you can, why the rockets continue to be fired at Israel after Israel left Gaza---

I doubt that Stephen Murray will respond to the question

Mr. Murray is wrong on at least four counts: 1) First, he concludes without any evidence that the man was shot by the IDF. 2) Then he concludes it was a murder - ie., that the man was intentionally killed, as opposed to being in the crossfire. Again, this is done without any evidence. 3) Third, he suggests the IDF is a teror organization, when in fact the Martyr's brigade is an internationally recognized, and self-admitted terror organization that routinely targets civilians and openly and somewhat proudly acknowledges their war crimes. 4) Finally, he says "we only have the IDF's... word that he's a terrorist." Wrong again. The martyr's brigade admitted he was one of theirs. Mr. Murray and his ilk are seemingly incompetent to engage in even the most elementary of logic discussions. They simply ignore evidence that refutes their position, jump to unwarranted conclusions, and are seemingly incapable of the simplest aspects of logical consideration and discussion.

i think the state of israel should reconsider its own strengent measures against the innocent palestinians in order not to create a new wave of terrorists who will become so hopeless because of the siege, closure and oppression

The obvious issue is: This is the PA's job. If Abbas/Fayyad can't or won't control their own terrorists, whatever deal they reach with Israel will be undermined and even totally ruined by subsequent PA terror aimed at Israel. Israel will be forced to go back in to the WB, and Abbas will call it a breach of agreement. Any agreement must require the PA to prevent attacks on Israel, or be held accountable for failing to do so, with understood consequences to follow.

Forget Rice!!

If the Myamar gov. kill protestor, Israel cry crime, if Israel kill Pals protesor, they cry fine.

To answer your question - very cynical savages with more concern for PR than for their children.

I seem to recall that the failure of Dutch troops to act led to the genocide of quite a few Africans just a few yrs ago. The Americans ain't perfect but neither are the Dutch. (Only the Israelis act appropriately.)

BBC again proves is they are heir of Joseph Goebbels.

I am not a Muslim Petra. I am an European. Muslims and Americans like yourself cheer when innocent people are murdered, like this 72-year old, Europeans do not.

Not terror Murray, but war. They do not lay down their arms and they prowl before dawn. These terrorists are fair game for the IDF.,,,,,,,,,real easy solution. Negotiate for peace and start to police and institute the rule of law in your own territory. Pali government must make it safe for it's citizens as well as Israelis.

is a good way to go UNTIL the Fals decide to make peace

Seems to me the muslims murder more of their own than anyone. I personally think America SHOULDN"T be in Iraq however, I see more proof of muslims factions warring against one another than anyone else. If you want peace, complain to your mullahs, real war heroes those paid assassins.

the other bastard says that weapons smuggling on egypt border could be stopped in one day, while he received like billions worth weapons from USA's help. Americans got military bases in Egypt, why they dont help secure the border ? Are they too busy furnishing Abbas with weapons trying the Civil War strategy they favor so much since the victim reproduce the agression pattern...(secession war) Seen what they pay yearly for Suez concession, they could be more involved in local security. But oops i forgot, they dont give a flying crap about security (look at dem schools, dem ghettos & gang warz) , all that matters is dark benefits , immobilism & false flag activities (like bird flu or 911) Tugh, why wait more from a fake president, a fake republic, a faked freedom. That is being brain washed. We call it being informed. We dont manipulate the medias so medias couldn't manipulate us, manipulation is a sign of psychic disease.We healers.

According to the story it is not known who shot the 72 yr. old. If the Palestinians would murder a 12 yr. old Palestinian (Al Dura)is it inconceivable that they would murder an older one? What kind of savages murder their own children just for the sake of public opinion?

Killing a 72-year old when he's leaving his house. The same thing the cowardly Americans are doing in Iraq. You Americans are the real terrorists.

"Israelis and Palestinians," Rice observed, "are making their most serious effort in years to resolve the conflict." Hard to believe, Condi ....

Seems to me, Israel is very cautious in regards to the Pal terror. Will the ignorant pals ever seek peace? Probably not. They are barbaric and brain washed.

So another civilian is murdered by those IDF terrorists. Who's betting that the IDF murderer won't be charged with any crimes. As for the 'militant' - well we only the IDF terror organisation's word that he's a terrorist. And seeing as the IDF is a terrorist organisation they shouldn't be believed. Sanctions against terrorist Israel are required. Failing that alll Israeli goods, products and services should be boycotted until they end their terrorist Apartheid regime.