The Gaza War 'victory' - Has Israel grown dependent on terror?

During the mandate, it was the Irgun revisionists who performed the first terror attacks against the British government. The Zionists have a long history of using violence to get what they want. Operation cast lead is simply a halted extermination policy. You see, the holocaust taught the revisionists "never again to us", a vision for which they toiled through thier genocide of the Palestinians. Of course the Nazis were much more effective in thier policies, since they actually secured the cooperation of thier victim population before attempting to exterminate them. Perhaps the Israeli right could look to the lessons of the Nazis when contemplating how they wish to rid themselves of thier Arab problem.

There was no more "Capitulation" since WWII. All wars, hot or cold, between democratic regimes and totalitarian regimes like Russia, Corea, Vietnam, China, Lebanon, Syria, Egypt, Iraq. Afghanistan, ,Gaza etc either ended with both sides claiming victory or continued to bleed each other endlessly. Under those circumstances, the 60 year old United Nations Organization proved again and again to be a toothless organization in need to be replaced urgently by a new international body.

Terrorism was invented by the Arabs..Mohamad's curriculum speaks for itself! But let's review more recent times in the region some call Palestine: 1920 local Arabs attack twice Jewish community of Tel Hai killing 8 Jews; Arab pogrom in Jerusalem 9 Jews murdered 244 wounded; 1921 27 Jews killed and 150 wounded during Arab anti-Jewish riots in Jaffa; 1928-29 47 Jews killed by Arabs in Jerusalem and another 133 killed and 339 wounded all over the country; 1929 Hebron 67 Jews killed and 60 wounded; 1929 Safed 18 Jews killed 40 wounded, 200 houses were looted and burned. Violence, murder, rape, ambushes, plunder, arson etc..perpetrated by Arabs against Jews long before the re-birth of the state of Israel..the list is really too long and goes on until this very day.. for a more complete list of Arab terror go to: www.camera.org/index.asp?x_context=28x_outlet=118&x_article=1691 You obviously don't know what you are speaking about!

There is always quiet before the storm... David

I appreciate your efforts to try to sort things out, however you start on fundamental misconceptions. You see to many wrong adjectives (superlatives) have been injected by deceit into the debates about the Arab-Israeli conflict. When one use "occupation" for instance he thinks about the unprovoked, deliberate attack and subsequent oppressive/ brutal occupation by the Nazis of scores of sovereign European countries. While the so-called Israeli occupation results from Arab's aggressions upon her. No historical, legal, factual or moral equivalent can be stressed between the two situations. Nevertheless it is the done to incriminate, delegitimise and demonize Israel..Urgent intellectual honesty needed when judging Israel!

Every single one of Israel's restrictions on Gaza are dictated by share necessity. Why would, what you call Israel's blockade be illegal? Israel has every legal (and moral)right to decide to keep her border closed to a hostile entity which indulges in terrorism, launches non-stop rocket attack and overtly proclaim the intention to destroy her. Gaza has also a border with Egypt, by the way! So blockade allegations stand no water! If after Israel's retreat the 'democratically" (!) elected Hamas would have started a serious peaceful state building process instead of the perpetuation of their aggressions against Israel there would not be any "blockade", nor the need for tunnels, nor any Israeli counter-attack. Your hatred for us prevents you to any rational thinking!

so true so very, very true

Israel has been terrorizing the true inhabitants of Palestine for over 60 years. It seems to be what they are good at. Luckily, thanks to the internet, the world (other than the Zoinist controlled US goverment) is starting to wake up to the racist genocidal policies of Israel MUST come to an end. Israel never has and never will want peace.

There is no need for the Palestinians to used armed resistance - for now. Operation Cast Lead made it impossible for Western public opinion to ignore, or feign indifference to, the atrocities committed by Israel; witness for example the passing of a resolution by the congress of UK trade unions for a mass boycott of Israel which parallels those of South Africa and Ireland. There is also a US president in power who is not so deeply attached to the misguided sentiment that Zionism brings opportunities and benefits to American interests in the Middle East. He must be given time to bring about a two-state solution, or to come to appreciate that Israel has never sought peace.

I wish to make 2 points, firstly I cringe every time I hear or see the word WAR! a total misuse of the word. Secondly there were no rockets attacks for four and one half months prior to the first Tuesday of November last year. I will leave it to all those astute contributors to find out what happened that day and then what followed.

...who do you think you are fooling? The ill informed? "...until Israel effectively ended the truce on November 4..."(Steve) Ask yourself this: Who benefits from the status quo and who has been asking for this conflict to be settled peacefully with both sides to recognize each other, for over 60 years? The Arabs or the Israelis? Does Hamas want to recognize Israel? Would Hamas be happy with even an indefinite cease fire? Would a cease fire serve their oft stated aim of destroying Israel? No it wouldn't and that's why they were the ones who broke the cease fire Steve. Even Abbas admits it: ?I say in all honesty, we made contact with leaders in Hamas in the Gaza Strip. We spoke with them in all honesty and directly, and after that we spoke with them indirectly, through more than one Arab and non-Arab side... We spoke with them on the telephone and we said: 'We beg of you, we hope that you won't break [the ceasefire.] As the [Egyptian foreign] Minister said: 'Don't break the ceasefire, the ceasefire must continue and not stop.' In order to avoid [violence] that has happened. If only we had avoided it.? PA President Mahmoud Abbas2b 2b - Palestinian Media Watch, (February 29, 2009). Even Abbas was pleading with Hamas to continue the cease fire but did they listen? Of course not!

... It is OK for neighbours to lob rockets onto the heads of neighbourhood citizens if it is: "...next to nothing and anyway, those rockets kill fewer Israelis in a year than Peanut butter or Bee stings"(Steve) Now tell me Steve: Would the good citizens of Perth put up with what you advocate? No? I didn't think so! And they would be right not to put up with it. So why do you think that Israeli citizens should put up with it?

The claim that rocket fire from Palestinians has lessened since the criminal Cast Lead assault, is pure bunkum. It was already next to nothing and anyway, those rockets kill fewer Israelis in a year than Peanut butter or Bee stings. Anyone would think it was 1500 Israeli civilians killed in a brutal armed aggression and not only about 6. I am also sick of you animals pretending that you lost 14 in cast Lead. I think the half of those you killed yourselves with your own "friendly" fire, are not the fault of the Palestinians. Despite shooting incidents, including ones resulting in Palestinians getting injured, Hamas still held to the cease-fire from the time it went into effect on June 19 until Israel effectively ended the truce on November 4 by launching an airstrike into Gaza that killed five and injured several others. Israel?s violation of the cease-fire predictably resulted in retaliation from militants in Gaza who fired rockets into Israel in response. The increased barrage of rocket fire at the end of December is being used as justification for the continued Israeli bombardment, but is a direct response to the Israeli attacks.

Ramadan Roundup 2009 Jihad Attacks: 203 Countries: 16 Religions: 5 Dead Bodies: 735 Weekly Jihad Report Sep 12 - Sep 18 Jihad Attacks: 43 Dead Bodies: 156 Critically Injured: 236 Plus the mass bombing plans aborted fot Texas and Illinois Critically Injured: 1125 http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/

WISDOM this is something that the palestinians and their authorities need urgently. Wisdom will open your eyes and mind.

I think you're still in danger over there. There is a truth that stands up whether you're talking about two guys fighting over a girl or a sandwich, or whether you are dealing with a lone postal worker or in an all out war with a ruthless enemy. This is the truth. The guy who has nothing to lose is the most dangerous individual. And the truth is, from what I can garner from over here, is that the Gazans don't have too much. So be careful.

I love the Sarids and the Beilins who constantly prattle on about how eventually both sides will have to sit down and bang out a 2-state agreement. Burston's been one of those types for years, but now it sounds like he might just be starting to get it, namely that true peace cannot be negotiated with sworn violent enemies, but rather peace with those who feel Israel has no fundamental right to exist can only be earned by the might of the sword (though I also see a definite place for hasbara in the battle).

Israel didn't have to massacre 1500 Palestinians to end the rocket attacks. They simply had to END THE SIEGE. Don't forget that rocket attacks almost completely ended during the 6 month lull agreement. Why didn't Israel renew the ceasefire in December? Instead Israel chose violence. This has to stop!

The challenge today is to rid the Middle East of Israel's terror. That's what this fight is all about and I am glad to lend a helping hand as I believe both people will eventually benefit from this. Dutch

Hey Smadar, I share a wish for peace with you, although I cannot imagine coming in the near future. Time just is not right, the pieces are not in place. You said it yourself, although convoluted, "Perhaps if the leaderships in Israel were of liberal backgrounds of the Jews from Arab lands there would have been peace already from decades back. But that`s also hypothetical." I know your father is Iraqi, and I also understand that the intlligentsia of Iraq considers itself vastly more progressive than other Arab societies. But there were few liberal jews emanating from the Arab lands, and who would they have dealt with "liberal" Arab gov'ts???? Please name on in the last hundred years. Can you? Obviously the more liberal arab jews would have been willing to make compromises for peace, but with whom would they have received compromises from???? Two sides have to want peace, & yes accept that a jewish state exists in what the Arabs consider their Uma.

Simply by criticizing everything.

I have tried several times. One need only compare the operations in Jenin early in the decade with Cast Lead to see a major shift in objective and tactics. "So reliant has Israel become on terrorism as the underpinning of its policies, it remains to be seen if its reflex dependency on Palestinian violence can be replaced by a world view appropriate to a Holy Land uncontaminated by terrorism." - Bradley Burston Without terrorism what justification do the policies of Likud, Kadima, Yisrael Beiteinu, and even Ehud Barak's Labor have? Israel has never known peace, and it has become as an institutionalized prisoner, incapable of living without war and terrorism. Israel does not like being imprisoned by terrorism and threats, but it is unwilling to attempt escape. More fearful of what freedom from fear might mean, than afraid of the threat it is accustomed to.

I know it is wrong,BUT.... Some of my best friends are Jewish,but..... Now we have a scale for terror,maybe the UN should use it for definition of terror. Osama=10.Haniyeh=7?.Nasrallah=8.Ahamadinejad=11. Dino.if it walks like Haniyeh and quacks like Ahmadinejad and looks like Nasrallah,it must be a TERRORIST!

I don't think Lebanon and Gaza are the same thing. Lebanon moved on from its war and Hezbollah entered a political rather than military phase. Plus the UN established a strong presence on the border to minimize conflict. In Gaza, the results are more positive but that was a much weaker enemy.

Nuclear bomb detonation in April not N. Koreas intercontinetal miisle launch towards Japans shore. Obama did not react when Ahmedinejad was reelected as President in the last rigged alection in Iran. Obama is quickly showing that he is an exellent public speaker but ineffective President. Good speakers do not necessarily are good leader or effective Presidents. John Kennedy was an excellent speaker but his speeches were writen by Kennedy's principal speechwriter - who wrote the January 1961 inaugural address which included the lines: "Ask not what your country can do for you?" - on President Obama's inaugural speech and wetted the Historian Schlesinger.John Kennedys program of legislation for equal ooportunities fro Afro Americans were were revoltionary but Kennedy did not manage to pass even one legislation on this issue.It was Lyndon Johnson, the VP and later President that passed all the legislations through Congrees and Senate. Johnson was considered a "red Neck Texan", rough.

First lets get one point clear.Terror did not appear because of Israel policy,not even because of occupation.What would you call what happened before 1967?and even prior to 1948?. Remember the root of the word assassin. The maximum number of enemy casualties,and keeping your own at minimum is what every country at war is doing.Send Gaza decades into the past,is better than send Chechnia or Afghanistan into the stone age. War on terror have changed the world.Has the US'grown dependent on terror?the UK?The Palestinians are dependent on terror.You can depend upon it!

It's interesting what you've said but I don't necessarily agree with the idea that if there would be peace only the Jews from Arab lands would stay, as most Jews want peace in the Middle East and have assimilated to Middle Eastern culture and socioeconomic existence similar to other modernized Arab countries. But for a long time I have been in denial to accept that Israel is indeed predominately a military state given the history - but of course it doesn't have to be security oriented 24/7 if a final peace agreement is established. Perhaps if the leaderships in Israel were of liberal backgrounds of the Jews from Arab lands there would have been peace already from decades back. But that's also hypothetical. What's important is to negotiate a compromising settlement and move forward for us and future generations.

A military state like israel will always need 'conflict' to survive. It was built on that, infact its what keeps them together. If there was real 'peace' most israelis would probably go back to their original countries only the arab jews would stay.

Bradley, your title should have been The Gaza "War" Victory, not The Gaza War "Victory". There cannot be a war when the other side does not fight - it then becomes a massacre.

"Precisly when is Israel going to stop holding Gazans in an open air prison. When is Israel going to end the occupation of teh conquored territories?"(American in NY) When Gazans will stop making war on every Israeli man woman and child indiscriminately and behave more like Sadat and less like Osama Bin Laden.

Sorry Swiss (Dingo) There are No, Israeli soldiers in Gaza There are No, Israeli settlers in Gaza There are No, Israeli settlements in Gaza We have even left land in the Gaza strip that we the Jewish community legally owned and paid for with money! So, I am sorry to tell you this Swiss (Dingo) but legally there is NO Occupation in Gaza! The Gaza Population is oppressed by their own Hamas people not us! We Israelis have nothing to do anymore with the People of Gaza, yet European people like you think we should still look after them: look that they get Fuel; look that they get Medicine, look that they get Food; look that they get Water; look that they get Electricity. . . look that they are supplied with Concrete for tunnels; look that they are supplied with Steel for rockets, and now after the Goldie report we have come to a new absurd where we Israelis are requested not to defend ourselves under UN international law when rockets are fired from Gaza into Israel (even if we have been fired upon for 8 years), well Ladie Da to that! Dear Swiss (Dino) let me remind you that the Palestinians in Gaza even have a border with their Egyptian brothers, since Israel handed over its control over the Philadelphi Route to the Egyptians when it left Gaza. Rafah Border crossing between Egypt and Gaza was manned by European Monitors, but has been closed and shut down by the Egyptian Authorities because of Palestinian violence, and lack of security for the European Monitors. Armed Palestinians literally attacked the crossing and compelled the observers to run away to the Kerem Shalom base on the Israeli side. Swiss (Dingo) Maybe if the Europeans and EU were not such sissies in fulfilling their part of the agreement the Palestinians in Gaza could walk freely to the Egyptian side and back over the ground not under it! But, it is the Israeli fault isn`t it? Since it could not be, the Poor Palestinian Hamas fault as you already convinced us!

your just super naive ... israel desroyed the hamas infrasctructer ... and destroyed many of their offensive capabilities, to think that israel wont defend itself because of obama is ignorance. their leaders are still in hiding and i doubt hamas can handle the gazans reaction should they instigate another invasion so soon after the cast lead ended. ... before cast lead ... every day 20+ kasams, after cast lead ... barely 20 or more in months.

Ever heard of calm before storm? Calm has never, in the history of the State of Israel, been achieved for longer than it takes a fuse to burn up to the next pile of powder. To put the fire out peace has to be achieved, not calm.

I mean come on, move on. Can't you simply be happy that calm has been achieved? It is obviously a shame that innocent Palestinians were killed, but its a ubiquitous aspect of any war, and especially asymmetrical warfare, as you are very aware. Would you have preferred a more haphazard (I refuse to use the word "cautious" b/c its not true) effort of protecting Israeli lives, that was conducive to many more casualties? Will that assuage your guilt?

The solution to the Arab/Israeli conflict, despite all the smoke and propaganda, is not that complicated. The Arabs living in the West Bank and Gaza must understand that Israel is here to stay and that continued violence against Israelis will hurt and damage the Arabs much, much more than it will harm the Israelis. Further concessions by Israel will only be interpreted as a sign of weakness and will encourage more violence by the Arabs. Israel did not ask for this 60+ year-old conflict, but it has no choice but to overwhelm its enemies. Wars only end with unambiguous victories, as ugly as they might be.

Israel smacked Hamas terrorist so hard they need a break to regroup. Israel did the same in Lebanon but both operations were not enough. What is needed is for Israel to finish their operations in Lebanon and Gaza and clean up terrorist there. This is the only chance for peace.

Uh, precisely when are Israel`s neighbors going to stop taking potshots at civilians? On that day, Israel`s views should change.B. Roberts Precisly when is Israel going to stop holding Gazans in an open air prison. When is Israel going to end the occupation of teh conquored territories?

Burston talks as if Israel has something to prove, namely that the Israelis have not become dependent on terror, as if they have some kind of Stockholm Syndrome. What rubbish! In the Lebanon and Gaza, Israel abandoned the thoroughly discredited practice of proportional response, which has maintained the status quo for decades in the war of attrition against Israel. By using overwhelming force, with the ruthless, single-minded aim of clearing out the terrorist nests, wherever they were found, Israel has broken the back of the terror regimes in the Lebanon and Gaza. Israel has proved what happens when given peace, in the West Bank, where proportional response indeed has its place: every measure of civility by the Palestinians has been met with a corresponding measure of withdrawal by Israel. Israel already has given the lie to Burston's speculations. Israel has put the terrorists on notice: future responses to their attacks will not be proportional.

"For the right, the specter of terrorism has become the primary, at times, the only argument against territorial compromise in the West Bank." This is your biggest mistake, Bradley. For the right, the primary argument against territorial compromise is a perceived divine right to land that does not belong to the modern State of Israel. They know this argument won't wash with the public and instead feed the spectre of terrorism by whatever means they can invent. Example: Jacob Blues claims here that a tunnel was the catalyst for the operation. True in a way. We bombed it killing two Hamas men 5 months into a 6-month cease-fire that had seen a 98% reduction in Hamas rockets and mortars but no lifting of the siege. The response from Hamas was a barrage of Qassam rockets. These became the pretext offered to the public for Cast Lead. The end-of-year interregnum between the Bush and Obama presidencies was timely for improving Kadima's standing ahead of our general election.

You said that 68% of Palestinians still think suicide bombings are OK. Yet 1% of any civilized group on the planet that felt that way would be a serious hazard to world peace. 68% puts them on a level with Martians, who needs space travel? Has the U.S. grown dependent on tyranny? Are safe cities dependent on criminals? Armed forces & police protection are givens. It's better to point fingers at causes, not solutions.

As a fact if one gets used to daily terror that is what one gets. If one gets used to not having terror that is what one gets. In Judea and Samaria people got used to not having terror. The number of road blocks and such have decreased and people are enjoying it. There is very little terror and it looks if all is well, it is not. The real problem for Israel is that apprently between the sea and the Jordan the number of Jewish new kids in grade schools is equal to the numbers of Arabs new kids. It is quite possible that that serve the Palestinian aims, if any, much better than terror.

It is the opinions of the world's populations that Hamas and its likes are trying and succeding to win over, and that might very well grant them the final victory in this conflict, when Israel ceases to exist because of its own failures and the failure to live up to its values, not because Hamas or Hezbollah beat them. You are what you do, you do what you are.

and, why, Mr. Burston, is terrorism dropping in Israel? You conveniently skipped over those facts. The reason is that Israel responds to terrorism with military force, walls, and economic restrictions. Of course, you have decided that this response is only a front to ignore Israel's real problems. In the Leftist world, its a one way street. Only Israel is responsible for the conflict, and even its response to terrorist rockets, is meant to distract people from the true Leftist narrative, by involving the Palestinians.

Don't get me wrong, "terrorism" is ALWAYS wrong. Period. The only question is, whether one should apply exactly the same guilt factor when it comes to violent attacks against an "innocent" popu- lation (which doesn't follow expansive ideolo- gies, and which doesn't oppress another people) as one does when it comes to a population which regularly votes politicans into office that support expansive policies and oppression. Again, violence (especially in form of terror against civilians) is ALWAYS wrong, but I don't think that one can apply the same guilt factor in both cases. On a scale from 1 - 10, I would give a 10 for violent attacks against "non-oppressors" and a 7 for violent attacks against the population of an "opressing" country. But of course everybody will have to make his/ her own judgement there....

Israelis and Palestinians both should eliminate all the other foreign leaders from their failed peace process,and seek common ground amongst themselves.I know that both of them have lost so much in this war and neither are going to leave Jerusalem. take a step back evaluate the benefits of co-existence and work to build a viable economic and social state, and prosecute any and all war mongers.

Under President Obama, for the first time ever, Hamas thinks it has a realistic shot at world respectability. Sincere or not, Hamas now wants to paint a picture of "responsible leadership," hoping to beat out the PA as Obama's super-friend. We'll see if it lasts, but for the time being, it's clear that Hamas sees potential for concrete gain with Obama, and Qassams dont fit into that plan. (Likewise, decline in attacks cannot have been caused by fear of another Cast Lead -- Hamas knows fully well that irrespective of Hamas escalation, another such offensive will never be an option for Israel while Obama is President.)

Victor, what planet have you been living on? Relative quiet in Gaza BEFORE!!? Literally thousands of rockets rained on Israel from Gaza for years. This is well documented fact.

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Two quotes are appropriate here..."War is the continuation of policy (politics) by other means" and ?Given the same amount of intelligence, timidity will do a thousand times more damage than audacity? (both from K. Clausewitz). Daily rocket and mortar fire should and did motivate the Gaza adventurism. FTA:"...reflex dependency on Palestinian violence can be replaced by a world view appropriate to a Holy Land uncontaminated by terrorism." Uh, precisely when are Israel's neighbors going to stop taking potshots at civilians? On that day, Israel's views should change.

"Or would it be the smuggling tunnel that HAMAS was burrowing into Israel during this supposed cease-fire period? That tunnel, which is what precipitated Israel`s actions" The smuggling tunnels are Gaza's way of staying alive with smuggled food and they are Gaza's response to Israel's illegal blockade of their borders, their ports, their airspace, their sea and everything else. Try living like Israel has forced the Gazans to, Jacob, and see how you like it.

cease-fire agreement days before Israel decided to attack? Or would it be the daily rocket and mortar fire that continued during the six months of so-called "relative quiet". Or would it be the smuggling tunnel that HAMAS was burrowing into Israel during this supposed cease-fire period? That tunnel, which is what precipitated Israel's actions.

This is one of those rare occasions that Burston has written something that is not patently obvious propoganda. Unfortunately however he started form a thouroughly false premise, the pure bunk of Diehl's position. One need only examine the relative quite in Gaza in the six months preceeding the vicious assault, a quite broken by provocative Israeli actions just before launching the planned assault. Much the same can be said for 2006 as well. The Israeli Discourse (if it can called that) is one in which Truth has long been expelled.

Bradley, your problem is that you state that Israel chose its policy and then terror occurred, and refuse to see that Israel has been under substantiated threat since even before the State even existed and this threat dictates Israel policy.

The settler ideology is pretty clear about subsuming fears of "terrorism" into a worldview of general suspicion of non-Jewish potential antagonists, etc. But apart from the neo-Gush/Shas/Yisrael Beitenu block, there are good reasons for the rest of the electorate to be wary of further territorial concessions.