State told to explain Palestinian travel ban on West Bank road

This is further evidence that the Zionist leaders of Israel are racist and supremacist in every sense of those words. How can Israel call itself a "democracy" when it is clearly an apartheid state, racially discriminating against anyone who is not Jewish. And it is sad to see the United States complicit with the Israeli government in its arrogance and racism.

TOMY: "your logic would work if lives would not be in danger, so you have planty of time to disscuss, make recomendations,drink tea" *sigh* The IDF Commander has the authority to issue a military decree closing ANY road at ANY time to ANY traffic for ANY security concern. He does not need to seek the courts permission to issue that decree, TOMY, as the ICHJ has consistently reaffirmed. What the IHCJ is now asking is how that road can be closed WITHOUT any such decree being issued, and how it can remain closed even tho such a decree continues to be unforthcoming. Ya' just don't get it, do you? The IDF commander can issue his decree IN AN INSTANT, and the road closes. But a decree also means the closure becomes subject to subsequent judicial and political oversight. The IDF Commander didn't issue that decree, and the suspicion must be that this is to deliberately avoid any such civilian oversight i.e. the IDF considers itself to be a law unto itself, beholden to no-one.

W: "What you are saying is that no matter the danger posed, the military must go through court to argue its case." And...I'll stop you right there. The IDF Commander already HAS the authority to issue military decrees banning Pals from a road. What the IHCJ is asking is how a road can get closed WITHOUT any military decree being issued. Coz a decree means that everyone - the Pals, the Govt, the courts, the civil rights NGOs, the UN, everyone - know what the IDF is doing. The sneaking suspicion at the IHCJ must be that this isn't an isolated incident i.e. nobody really knows what the extent of closures in the WB is because the IDF acts furtively. That should worry the IHCJ, the Govt of Israel, and you. But apparently only the 1st is concerned that: a) What the Govt tells you about events in the WB may not be true because b) that Govt really doesn't know what's happening in the WB because c) the IDF doesn't tell anyone what it's doing.

Willfully overlooked is the fact that modern Israel is not some upstart Western invention, supplanting the state of Palestine, but the ancestral homeland of the Jewish nation, the land where our nation long lived and has always sought to live. The world is filled with Muslim nation-states and Christian nation-states. Ours is the only Jewish nation-state. It is the only nation-state that the Jewish nation has ever sought. Continued Palestinian suffering is not a consequence of unacceptable and inexplicable Israeli occupation. Why are Palestinians still living in refugee camps in Gaza when there is no Israeli presence there? Why are Kassam squads firing into sovereign Israel from Jew-free Gaza, and bringing more suffering on their fellow Palestinians as Israel tries to stem the fire? (Jerusalem Post)

Maybe you can enlight us to say the identity and culture of palestine. From who Moshe dayan took gaza? I thought that was from Nasser. Not from the leader of plo yasser arafat. From who dayan won the cisjordan territory? maybe jordan's king. Hussein. There is any evidence of a sorveign palestian govern, culture and identity? There is any evidence that jews acted like terrorist against portuguese crown, when they were opressed by portuguese? "Terrorism against Jewish civilians" - Oh and Israel`s occupation of Palestinian land, the attempted obliteration of their identity and culture is not? Israel should know all about terrorism as your founding fathers were regarded as such by the British.

That is the point, f(fake)phd paulo, You think history of jewish people in portugal is in a long past. Maybe portugal still teaches humanity: Now portugal is free of jews.What portugal did to return the people of sefarad? bring them from coffins and exilation? Nothing.Neither studies are carried and compansation paid. Israel is here, defending its own people, jews,arabs,christians,seculars, druse. Everyone is bombed by qssams and bomb belts randomly. Israel like any other country is not perfect, but Israel hadnt one day of holiday in 60 years, allways at war and danger. Your people chase my for about 400 years! Not an apartheid that is so ugly to you, but anihilation! As you people shamely done to indians, negroes etc. What is portugal today, compared with the past? A regional power?A trustworthy allie? Even the remain jews have bad times today in portugal and europe in general. They are not israelis, they are portuguese jews, something you dont know, only visiting a museum

Gee: "The people that are barred are not citizens of Israel nor did they pay for the road, we did stupid. The IDF didn`t close the road to `Palestinians` they just haven`t added access roads, so what? They don`t have to. " I'll repeat: The IDF is not a fuedal king, the West Bank is not its fiefdom, and the Pals are not its serf. It is the Occupying Power. It must obey the International Laws of Occupation, and it must follow laws and procedures set down by the Israeli govt. It can not Do As It Pleases. You think it can. You, Gee, are an ignorant, arrogant, and simpleminded idiot.

What you are saying is that no matter the danger posed, the military must go through court to argue its case. Ok. So let's say the Australian military in Iraq is getting the shit kicked out of them and need additional forces badly. In your logic, the military will NOT send help, but go through the due process in court to debate about expanding the current mandate and the pros and cons. Sorry to disappont you, but it doesn't work that way...and rightfully so. In any period of enemy agression, a State may impose rules of law...even before asking the courts. The same is true in Israel where a security situation allows the IDF to make what actions necessary to provide security and protection. This scares me not in the least. Infact, it is what makes Israel very safe, and countries laden in beauracry, like India, not so much. The IDF simply didn't follow through on its paperwork. Take it to court, let them sanctify it, then go back to blocking the roads. Problem solved.

It is an inconvenience to have to drive on dirt roads in that area. israel should make a deal to open this road to Pals...on two conditions: 1) That the IDF be allowed to set up roadblocks on the other side of the city, and along with city councils, heavily check the people who enter the village (keeping average terror groups from entering) 2) Threaten an immediate and permanent closure if any terror activity eminates from the villages on that road. This way, Pals will have a vested interest in keeping the road open, maintain peace, and eventually paving the road to wider peace agreements on a local level.

The road was very much open pre-2000 to all Pals and Israelis. Road blocks were set up on the road when suicide bombers ala Arafat began streaming through to Israel here. However, the road was still open until 2002. It was closed to Pals because: 1) There was almost always a shooting on cars or stones thrown making it unsafe for anyone to travel it. 2) Became a violent focal point during anti-wall demonstrations in a nearby town While it tough on Pals who live there, it is in the interest of safety, is allowable under ALL conventions, and is a direct result to Palestinian terror. Keep in mind that if Israel is forced to give these "occupied" security, then separation of Pals and Israelis is not Apartheid, but a demand under human rights conventions.

"Without the illegal settlers, settlements, land and water theft, you Israelis could have remained much safer living in Israel proper." Tell that to the many families who lost family pre-1967 due to PLO terrorist infiltrations into Israel proper...and this even though you had free movement in Wb/Gaza. Today, free movement in Gaza...and what is seen? A free movement of rockets to launch positions, and attacks on the only institutions of co-existance like Karni junction, Erez Ind. Park. Remember, pre-2000, there was absolute free movement in WB and Gaza. Arafat brought your problems to you - suicide attacks on buses brought IDF action, drive by shootings brought road closures and roadblocks, and suicide bombers brought the wall (which is very effective). With all of your violence, is it any wonder why Israel acts this way? Shouldn't be, because ALL Israelis were born under Arab terror...since 1929.

until some suicidal Palestinian blows up half your family while walking through a shopping mall...

In the article "...there are those that have been closed with iron gates. A Palestinian driver who is caught on the road can expect a lengthy delay, a warning and a scare, and sometimes even ... harsher sanctions" and you're maintaining that the IDF "just hasn't added access roads"? Maybe you're talking about a different road? And the argument that the people barred aren't citizens of Israel, they just happen to be the ones who live there, do you know what that smacks of?

A Bethlehemite writes: "you want safety, live in Israel proper". Hmmm, you can't say that Islamic Jihad have exactly made people living in Israel proper feel safe. Your advice may be quite sound when addressed to the State of Israel, but it's not much use to the individual Israeli who would prefer not to be shot or blown up. Mark you, the individual Palestinian who share that reasonable desire has some difficulties too...

And who paid for it? Sure as heck wasn't any Arab money that did that. ' Also, it was expanded onto their land, and justified on the basis that the locals needed it. 'Bullshit. The land was not privately owned. That has already been proved. As for locals, maybe just maybe they shouldn't attack their neighbors. You live in Richmond Virginia - if people in West Virginia kept attacking people travelling on the roads there, and the West Virginia State Police protected them, do you really think that Virginia would not do something to stop it? I know they would and so do you.

"Because Palestinians instigate acts of terrorism" - I repeat that Israeli's kill far more Palestinians than Palestinians Israeli's. Let's ignore the military in this argument for a brief moment, more Palestinian civilians are killed in the occupied territories by illegal Israeli settlers than the other way round. "Havent you understood that yet?". "Terrorism against Jewish civilians" - Oh and Israel's occupation of Palestinian land, the attempted obliteration of their identity and culture is not? Israel should know all about terrorism as your founding fathers were regarded as such by the British.

"Safety and security must come first" - The "safety and security" of Israel's illegal colonisers living on Palestinian land must come first. Its simple, any threat to the lives of Israel's settlers seriously undermines the occupation. Need I also remind you that "safety and security" of one people should not take precedence over the "safety and security" of another, well at least morally it shouldnt so I shouldnt assume such a standard from Israel. "With a daughter in Modi'in" - Hold on before you tell this story let me get out the world's smallest violin.

"Paulo and his apartheid state: Portugal" - Here go go again, that you have no worthwhile reply to my actual argument so you have to dredge up Portuguese history up to 500 years ago! Thankfully I live in a Portugal that no longer conducts such abhorrent activities, can you say that much about Israel today? "Palestinian terrorist are today sending its missiles from Gaza" - You do realise Israel is illegally colonising their land. If you dont like it then perhaps you should get the hell out of Palestine and return to Israel! Its funny too how Israel also uses the argument that it has withdrawn from Gaza, this is a mere 5% of former Palestinian land!

"More German civilians were killed by the Americans...does this priove that America...was in the wrong" - Oh yes I can see how you can confuse the Israel's illegal colonisation of Palestine and the allied forces attempts to recover their land in WW2. They're exactly the same thing. "Israel Arabs drive 443" - Oh yes this is the standard argument from Israel isnt it? Having actually read many reports about the discrimination Israeli Arabs receive on a daily basis I think you will find they actually confirms my position.

So according to you, the presence of a Jew in the West Bank carries with it a death sentence, just as selling property to a Jew carries a death sentence (without trial I have noticed). What kind of a society and people are you?

Terrorism is the mother and the father of all checkpoints, separation walls and closed roads.

Nice post.....well said.

If you truly feel that Palestinians can be defined as a "meek" people, then I truly think your moral compass is way out of whack. Hell I have Palestinian friends with light near-white skin who have traveled to the West Bank to visit relatives, only to be swarmed by villagers, pelted with rocks, and threatened with rifles. Thank God there was always someone in the crowd to call off the swarms. I don't think the people are meek, they are just totally outgunned and many have given up. There is a difference, and it saves Israeli lives.

before occupation. Also, it was expanded onto their land, and justified on the basis that the locals needed it.

During the coal wars in appalachia ceckpoints were attacked. A checkpoint is little more than an invitation to shoot at it. Fortunately for Israel, the majority of Palestinians are passivists. In Appalchia, the government left but not after many agents and pinkertons were shot. Simply by denying people movement in their own homes and neighborhoods encourages violence, as does the suspension of habeous corpous or its equivalent. Are you familiar with mother jones, and why she is famous? Again, Israel is fortunate because the Palestinians are so incredibly meek. Of course most of you have never been in the west bank, and have absoultely no clue about the arrogance of the soldiers and settlers.the palestinians do not have water and yet the settlers have swimming pools and watered lawns. If it were not for 1)the continued expansion of the settler enterprise, and 2)the lack of manners of the IDF soldiers, Israel and Palestine would be at peace

the palestinians who only have this road have lives at stake. They may need to go to the hospital. Israelis use the road for convenince, like a by-pass road. It doesn't take them to the hospital or anywhere else they need to be to live. The Palestians use of the road is that of absolute necessity. DUH.

if you want a separate state then get out of the territories, completely, and seal your borders. Don't keep roads open to drive through their territory. If you want the roads, then annex the territories and give the palestinians citizens. one way or the other, make a choice.

"A military dictatorship disguised as a democracy" You are a half-wit. You would have never known about this story if it wasn't for a free and independent press in Israel. Nor would you be able to express your views. Find me one 'military dictatorship' that is self-regulating and would even consider the grievances of the local population or outsiders such as yourself. Please keep your uninformed thoughts to yourself. You embarrass your nation.

would not be in danger, so you have planty of time to disscuss, make recomendations,drink tea...... In Israel they deal with Arab terrorists, so any time they open a road,or a chekpoint, people are being murdered. So first lives have to be saved and then we can do the disscutions, not the other way around. And this has nothing to do with dictatorship. My friend,your logic is twisted.

'Man, some of you talkback people are clueless' Yup you certainly are totally stupid and clueless. 'The IHCJ asks the State of Israel how a road was closed without any official or legal order being given' Nor do they have to have one. The people that are barred are not citizens of Israel nor did they pay for the road, we did stupid. The IDF didn't close the road to 'Palestinians' they just haven't added access roads, so what? They don't have to. 'That should worry ALL of you. But, apparently, you are much happier just knee-jerking your response.' Sure sounds like all of your stupid comments. If you hate us so much why do you come to an Israeli site so much?

...SO I'LL ASK WHO GIVE ISRAELISS THE RIGH TO BILD THE ROAD ON PALESTYNIAN LAND IN FIRST PLACE. WHY NOBODY ASK THIS

Thant's because Palestinians instigate acts of terrorism against Jewish civilians - or haven't you understood that yet?

i wish i thought of that arguement. finally, a palestinian like myself writing in haaretz!

then COMPLETELY get out of the WEST BANK.... live and let live. let us live like humans, then there'd be NO REASON for anyone to get shot. anyway, by your rationalization, the WB and GAZA should be UNDER WATER!

so, to keep you from being scared, it is "legal" to cut off a piece of the road, in the WEST BANK mind you... are ALL palestinians terrorists in your mind? in that case, ALL jews are terrorists in MINE! give me a friggin break!

Get the hint; no nation in world consider the WB part of Israel. Any Israeli living in the WB is illegal under the 4th Geneva convention and the UNSCR including the ones applying the 4th convnetion to the 67 Pali territories. Without the illegal settlers, settlements, land and water theft, you Israelis could have remained much safer living in Israel proper.And allot less lives lost. If Israel secured the 67 borders without illegally transfering the settlers into the Pali territories, you'd be more secure in Israel and we'd be able to move more freely. The 1st intifada was because of the children born under occupation, never tasted freedom, were choked and watched their lands bieng stolen for settlers who barely spoke hebrew to move in. These Pals watched the apartheid-like regime bieng created in the WB. The cancer of settlements meant that Israel has no intention to give them freedom. And you people wonder why they throw stones/ grenades at you?

No mattater what explanation the State of Israel would present to the High Court of Justice is irrellevant.We go back to international agreements that the occupier must not alter any thing on the land and population it occupies. I do feel sorry for these small towns for the suffering and hardships they go through to do thier basic daily life errands. Injustice and oppression will never bring peace to Israel.Oppression begets more violence and instability. End the occupation for your own sake first.

chekpoints,lets be clear. Your motives are obvious to any normal thinking person. But we remember very well what was happening in Israel when all the roads were open and there were no chekpoints. Of course ,you guys, had much,much more fun when Israelis were blown to pieces daly.Poor guys,their only fun in life is taken away.

Simcha: "safety and security must come first." No, due process must come first. If the IDF wants to close a road to the Palestinians because it fears for the lives of Israelis then it has to issue a legal order to that effect. It can't just decide to close the road and not *tell* *anyone*, and then simply wave a gun under the nose of any Palestinian who drives up to the turnpike. Yet that, apparently, is what the IDF is doing, and the High Court wants someone to explain to it why the f**k the IDF thinks it is a law unto itself. I suspect the answer will be that the IDF *is* a law unto itself, and the elected government of Israel is completely incapable of exerting any authority over it whatsoever. A military dictatorship disguised as a democracy, in fact.

by your terrorist friends IS THE REAL POINT. As always, avoiding the real issues, and cerceling around tham, is the real trademark of Johnboys arguments.

... who have in all likleihood never been to Israel, let alone on Route 443, who are clearly not concerned by the history of Palestinian attacks on this vital road between Tel Aviv & Jerusalem. Unfortunately, the same can probably be said for the Ha'aretz staff and the High Court who have little use for Jerusalem, let alone a safe alternate route to get there. PS -- With a daughter in Modi'in, I have spent more time on Route 443, both before and after October 2000, both during the day and at night, than most Israelis -- safety and security must come first.

Did you know : the American Army paid for this road in order to have a fast strategic connection from Mediteranean Sea to Jordan Valley without Bab el Wad. Maybe THEY decided to block access fro Palestinians ?

The IHCJ asks the State of Israel how a road was closed without any official or legal order being given, and you guys all leap up to argue is that the road had to be closed because of criminal actions by Palestinians. THAT IS NOT THE POINT. The IHCJ is asking how a road can come to be closed when a) no official or legal order is issued and b) the Defense Ministry has said the road ISN'T closed to Palestinians If there is a valid reason for the road to be closed then a DUE PROCESS must be followed, and it wasn't. The IHCJ wants to know why, and how, an arbitrary action by the IDF came to occur. The IDF is not a feudal king, and the West Bank is not its fiefdom, and the Pals are not its serfs. If the IDF wants to close a road then it has to follow procedures set down by law. Instead it just Did As It Pleased. That should worry ALL of you. But, apparently, you are much happier just knee-jerking your response.

Using our own system for terrorism and the left wing anti-Jewish anti Israel crowd plays into the hands of it. What have we become?

No there is no Jewish "terror" on these roads, since the settlers and their cohorts perpetrate their deeds by more devious means, aided and abetted by chosen buddies in the IDF.

... then of cause it makes no sense to close the road to arab trafic.

The arrogance of some posters never amaze me anymore.I guess power over another people gives a human being such a sense of higher authority.

Everything you have just used as justification is equally applicable to stonings and physical assaults carried out by the hitnachluyot on children and the elderly, whilst Police, Border Guards and Army squaddies look on, grinning. I hope the Court orders the State to similarly remove all other physical obstacles to peace.

For outrages such as these, look no further than the settlers in the area who use the road, condoned by their chosen cohorts in the IDF, such as Yair Naveh. It's a cruel joke that davka Naveh was the address to which the unfortunate village council heads had to address their pleas and complaints over a year ago. It shames one to learn of this blatant apartheid. No wonder that even South Africans who have seen-it-all during the worst years in their country, are shocked by some of the situations they see here in Israel, the so-called "Jewish Democracy".

collective punishment in the name of security with indeed the possible intention of getting the pals to leave!

Lets see how 20% of portugal population was anihilated,tortured,exproprieted,exileted etc. Apartheid? Where is in israel bus with seats only for palestinans? Restaurant were they are forbiden to enter. By the way, palestinans terrorist are today sending its missiles from gaza to sderot, What was the threat that jews done to portugal? vamos começar a nos insultar em portugues?

Right to life comes *way* before a right to comfort. Let the Palestinians prove that they have cracked down on terrorists before they ask us to allow them to use the road. The proof of burden is not on us, but rather on them.

More German civilians were killed by the Americans than American civilians by the Germans. Does this 'prove' that America was the aggressor or was in the wrong? Also, Israeli Arabs drive 443 regularly, so your claims of 'apartheid' are ridiculous.

Do you see the Palestinian Justice System taking Hamas to task for their war crimes? I didn't think so. The double standard applied to Israel is totally unreasonable, especially in light of Israel's fully functioning democratic process which prosecutes wrong-doer's, even when they are in the IDF or the Israeli government. The Palestine Authority not only lets Hamas war crimes slide, but actually defends them, and not just since an openly terrorist group was elected to power, but historically.

Well, the answer to THAT question is gonna be real simple: IHCJ to the GoI: "Why is that road closed?" GoI to the IHCJ: "I don't know. The IDF closes it. They don't ask me, and they don't tell me, and I never, ever ask." IHCJ to the IDF: "Why is that road closed?" IDF to the IHCJ: "F**k off. If you ever need to know then we'll tell you. Got it buddy?" Case dismissed.

"Why Palestinians cannot travel on the section of Route 443" - Quite simple really, Israel's job is to make the daily lives of Palestinians absolutely unbearable in the hope they will emigrate. The Israelis say its all about terrorism when in reality more Palestinian civilians are killed by Israelis than the other way round.

The reason for the 443 road closure is very simple. Over the past years, whenever the army opened 443 to Arab traffic, there were Jews shot on the roads by Arabs. There were also multiple incidents of stone throwings and molotov cocktails, all by Arabs. There was no terror at all by Jews in the area. The PA and local Arab village leaders neither prevented nor condemned these terrorist acts. The local Arabs suffer this inconvenience do to their own inability to restrict or jail their terrorists, and their total lack of willingness to live in peace with their Jewish neigbors.

Dozens of people were shot an killed on this road, inc. women and children between the start of the Oslo War at the beginning of September 2000 until the closing of this road to the Jordanian passport holders of Samaria ("West Bank"). Lives are more important than freedom of movement.

Cares more about the safety of Palestinians than its own citizens. Shame On Them!

...and so are all of its justices. Could it possibly be because Arab terrorists use the road to carry out attacks. I didn't think people in Israel could be this stupid as to ask questions like this. But then again, judges are stupid in every country. They'd rather see Jews getting shot to death by terrorists than stop Arabs from using a road.

An excellent decision - Israel is now taking the first steps on the road to becoming a democracy. Let us hope the judical authorities order the Army of Occupaton to remove all other illegal road blocks and checkpoints in similar vein to the rationale behind this decision.

Let the Arabs stop their terror- including ALWAYS throwing firebombs and rocks at cars on 443, and then there MIGHT be something to discuss. In the meantime, Israel should reopen the road to Negohot, Kvish Pinchas from Beit El to Dolev, and all of the other roads that have been closed to Jews.

I always drove from Tel-Aviv to Jerusalem via Modiin. Then, I come directly to where I need to in Jerusalem and avoid traffic jams. But if this road becomes dangerous, I'll have to drive through the traffics jams and through the whole city of Jerusalem to arrive to where I need. I don't want to recieve a bullet to my head from passing vehicle for simply driving from from Tel-Aviv to Jerusalem for the sake of human rights.