Solana shocked at growth of Israeli settlements in West Bank

have recognized Israel, stopped terrorism, hamas shouldn?t have been allowed to run in elections.

?the land that Palestinians want for a state? I now know what you are up. You want to give the terrorists what they want. This is your party?s policy, I know. What if Israel also wants it? Why shouldn?t it be given the land?

Why should Israel demolished the security fence? Do you want the terrorists kill Israelis? Is that the the million euros purpose your dis-government is giving to hamas?

Have you ever been shocked at the pals breaching their accords by murdering Israelis? Don?t the pals have to meet no commitments? Arent you shocked at the EU funding terrorism on Israel? What can you say about Moratinos giving hamas money in spite of the embargo decreed by the EU?

It has started, Yemenite Jews expelled from their city, you can start throwing candy and shooting off guns. All the usual antisemites silent about this, prove they are antisemites and not just anti Israel.

You sir, are an idiot, an absolute idiot. You must be Israel's clown jester. Your posts are always in caps, never make any sense and always contain a personal put down of the poster and never address the issue. It is apparent to me and many others that you are on something most don't partake of. I don't see any of your fellow Jews addressing your offensiveness, repeatedly, as they do other posters who don't agree with all Israeli positions. I could certainly see why someone would not want to live in a neighborhood with you; you are very, very sad. Have a good day.

that stuff and fantasizing with those mad hatters on the right wing, who attitudes you espouse. Boy, are you gonna be disappointed, yessiree, cause you are fixin to get put back into the green line. Folks like you said the same thing in S Africa and had all those nifty weapons, some from Israel; and the Shah had nifty weapons and guess what---when it is time to go, it is time to go. Course, if God is on your side, you wouldn't need to nuke/romp everybody would you, cause he would take care of it for you. Somin must be wrong according to that strain of thought, eh. Set your sights a tad lower so as not to disappoint yourself cause moving day is upon you, so hopefully you are planting trailers--just regular run of the mill thieves, yessiree, pure thievery!!!

wasn't relevant when the US arse ended up in a sling. Different circumstances--as they say, circumstances will make a monkey eat red pepper. Storm clouds are gathering over the US and Israel, yessiree they are, and Americans are very, very nervous. If God is with us, why by all accounts are we losing?? Could it be he is not on our side? Well, time will tell and we will see, won't we. Anyway, regards.

with some Israeli supporters saying US will always support Israel or Israel owns the US, this and that; Israelis don't see that attitudes are changing towards the behavior in the area; that's too bad, yessiree it is. After necons got us into Iraq; the SAME necons are crying "wolf" again for the US to whack Iran. Carter's book was for his evangelicals who give blind support to Israel; but that is changing. Discovery showed 2 hours of this conflict, including horrid pictures of the Pal living conditions--absolutely horrid--I am surprised there is not more trouble. It is not often that Americans get a chance to see pictures for themselves--no picture journalism allowed by Israelis and several have been killed. Carter's book will go a long way to unmasquing extremists on both sides of this issue with the hope that peace can come. Regards.

with folks saying, well, your country did this or that in its history, isn't gonna work any better than the worn out 'antisemitic' argument; regardless as to what these posters are saying, the world is gonna focus on the Pal/Israeli issue--the main reason being that all of a sudden the issues of nukes are back into the picture after a very long cold war. Those other places/things you mentioned didn't involve nukes, nor does Darfur and other horrible messes. But Israel through the US is asking the world to whack Iran on account of Israel's paranoia, so naturally, intelligent people would want to look at the circumstances that could bring about such a drastic proposition and it is the occupation. You won't back up anybody by talking about the US stealing from Indians/Mexicans, etc, which they did--the issue front and center, according to Madeline Albright--'it is the 1st time in a very long time the 2 major religions of the world have a dispute, up front and in the center'. Iraq???!!

land was stolen and continues to be stolen, and Israel's reaction to the Pals reaction to the theft, he probably wasn't shocked anymore. What shocked him was Israeli moxie, yessiree, I am sure it did; outright theft and murder in support of it; left to Israeli devices, the Pals won't have any land left for a state.

somebody says somin you don't like, you point to bad behavior by the party or his country---I guess that is the new fangled replacement for the worn out antisemitism claim. As for Sharon, given his history, there isn't ANYBODY on the planet that he should have refused to meet with, a terrorist now turned "a man of peace", according to Bush. Where is Mr. Sharon now, who knows!!!

Does Jesus qualify for the same accolades as Axel and you bestowed on me as in "nasty little Jew". Cheers.

I love drawing them out. They just can not help themselves. Cheers.

Had a humour bypass, Anat?

Now you're just trying to be deliberately offensive, Paul. Dig your head out of your shoulders, stop scowling and snarling and try to enjoy the day. There's a good lad.....

I rest my case, expressed in 186.

To say that people have to live with the fact on the ground only because Israel bought time and did so will not work. I can assure you if there is not a viable Palestinian state and an honest peacful solution, Fact on the ground will be ultered or changed. Who would believe that Muslims and JEWS would be out of Spain after 800 years? who would believe that the Ottoman will be out of Greece and most of the Islands after 500 years. Fact on the ground can be changed, you just hope and pray that we find peacful solution before that happen. Peace is possible but with the mentality you stated, it will never come.

CLIKKY, NO WONDER YOU WRITE TOTAL VITRIOLIC CRAP !! NO ONE CALLED JESUS EVER EXISTED UNDER THE ROMANS IN ISRAEL , NO TRIAL EVER TOOK PLACE . TRY STUDY OF REL RESEARCH AND HISTORY !!!

Mr. Kohen, I understand that you have the gons now, I understand that you are hiding behind a very strong tanks and secret service and what not. Remember South African, no one thought it will end the way it end. Remember Mozabiq, it is gone. Remember the Crusades, they took and build and stole for 300 years and called it home. Home is not home only because you call it home. Home is what you make out of it. You made hell out of your home and your 6% will never fly or survive because everyone knows that the Palestinian birth rate is so high thank to you. They have no jobs, no life, no hope, the only thing they are free to do so far is multiply and increase. Never you will keep the land of 1967, never.

The Romans certainly. But who conspired to have Jesus murdered? The corrupt priests of Herod's Temple in Jerusalem, whose nice little earner had been threatened by Jesus's overturning of the money-changers' tables. It was all about money. Who should be blamed? That particular bunch of Jewish villains, and certainly not Jewish people as a whole and for all time.

"PS I am that same person you called a "nasty little Jew" a few weeks ago." Thanks for reminding us who you are, Phinias.

"I wonder if Paulo, Axel and company have fully internalized what they have done by once again suggesting that the Jews are the ones who crucified Jesus, but claiming that they do not see in the state of Israel a responsible party to it. I suspect they either do not know or would not want to internalize what this charge has caused many millions of Jews through the centuries, and the price we Jews have paid for this claim, yet now they simply make fun of the subject and dismiss it, as if it is yet another form of entertainment. It is so sad that these Europeans from Portugal, Germany, and the Fool from Britain refuse to understand" It's always down to anti-semitism, isn't it, Anat? This anti-semitism is either overt or, in the case of Axel, Paulo, myself and others, rooted somewhere deep in our Christian psyches. Our hostility to Israel is NEVER attributable to its constant butchery of Palestinian innocents or rampant land theft, is it? So comforting a thought for you.

My posting was directed at Lynn . But will be Happy to answer your straight out of the AIPAC manual questions. I am not aware of any officially recognised place called samaria or judea and there is never likely to be.. West Bank I am familiar with. there are aggressors on both sides but if you want all the definitive answers to your questions let recommemnd the following. Scars of War Wounds of peace schlomo ben-ami. I do believe you are familiar with that Gentleman. Is he an Anti-Semite or just a self hating Jew. Now as to entering Gaza and the west bank, I do believe that res 242 as reiterated in the ICJ,S report of July 2004 should be your guide to what is legal. Maybe if you stop building illegal settlements - (refer to Geneva convention covering transfer of Occupier,s citizens to occupied territories, or perhaps you are not interested in UN resolutions other than the one that created your state)the aggressors on the other side just might leave you alone.Try it.

solana can be shocked as he wishes. He cannot turn the tide of history. He cannot even see the reality in his own country.

Blaming Jews for the execution of Jesus by the Romans. Blame the Romans. But comparing the execution of one man hardly compares with the "collective" German atrocities. Not only against Jews, but against mankind. Fifty million dead in a span of five years. You people qualify for the trash heap of history...eternally. PS I am that same person you called a "nasty little Jew" a few weeks ago. Cheers.

Are there any agressors, as you refer to them, on the Palestinian side in your opinio? Who are they? I also want to ask you, why has Israel entered the territories of Judea, Samaria and Gaza, and when?

Solana is shocked to find that settlement have grown so much and that Palestinians have not disarmend their militias. I am "shocked, shocked to find there's gambling going on in here!" (who said that in which movie?)

Are there any aggressors, as you call them, among the Palestinians? Furtheremore, are you aware when Israel entered the disputed territories and why?

Unlike you (with the exception of that problem in N.I.) I am proud to show my place of Birth. As to the "thing", Storm it is dying out as unlike the aggressors in Israel their counterparts finally realised as did the British Government that Violence was not the answer.The British to their credit never responded with gunships and 2000lb bombs and targeted killings etc etc..Had they adopted those policies we would have something in common. I am happy to say you and I, do not. N.I. I think you people have much to learn.

"How does a "peace plan" among people work if one group does not recognize the other and their rights as well?" - Lynn I hope this is a sincere inquiry. You wouldn't think that European diplomats are fools, would you? So here is a simple answer for you. Hamas is a party, not a "people". Like the Democrats in the US. When the US negotiates peace, it is not the Democratic party which does it, even if the Pres happens to be a Democrat. So far, Israel's agreements were concluded with the PLO, of which Abbas is Chairman. The PLO recognized Israel in 1988, and Abbas wants to negotiate peace. From a practical point of view, since Hamas controls the Parliament in the PA, it would be helpful if it agrees to Abbas negotiating. The nice thing: It does agree to this; this is part of the Prisoners' Document on the basis of which they want to form a national unity government. And the Document also provides that there will be a referendum on a deal. What more do you want?

You are too hard on the historically benighted Mr. Puke. I would remind you that England did start the "Opium War" - making it the only country to ever fight to INCREASE the consumption of drugs! Tally ho!

internalized what they have done by once again suggesting that the Jews are the ones who crucified Jesus, but claiming that they do not see in the state of Israel a responsible party to it. I suspect they either do not know or would not want to internalize what this charge has caused many millions of Jews through the centuries, and the price we Jews have paid for this claim, yet now they simply make fun of the subject and dismiss it, as if it is yet another form of entertainment. It is so sad that these Europeans from Portugal, Germany, and the Fool from Britain refuse to understand.

How long is that Protestant/Catholic thing been going on in Ireland?

How does a "peace plan" among people work if one group does not recognize the other and their rights as well?

Read #105. this solution makes more sense than anything the diplomats and leaders have come up with. Self governing and equal is the whole idea.

My point is this, Puerto Rico enjoys all the benefits of self governing with all the benefits of any citizen of the US. It is a good situation for all. I believe it could be a viable solution for the problem withinthe ME. As for Apartheid, since Carter has now popularized that by his book, I am sure you and many others will use it to death. I also saw the BBC undercover special about the Brighton Mosque and know Galloway's rantings and the issues being raised in the UK concerning Islam. I am also aware of the demonstrations in the UK. Give me a break! Damned shame that 3% of your population raises so much hell everyone is aware of it. Let us not forget the Pakistanis arrested, going to use their baby as a bomb. PLEEEZ!!

No the EU wasn't in existance-but the European diplomatic appeasement process was in full force. See also Munich. And in response to earlier name-calling post, Austria was annexed by Germany put under her yoke THEN WWII broke out. Similar to Polish and Czek land grabs before turning those country's factories over to building tanks and planes to fight and defeat British and French armies. The thing is when European countries were helping keep Ayatollah Khomeni comfy while he waits out the timing of the revolution and other things detrimental to Israel, Israel took note. Now EU is coming in to save the day? Please!

The U.S. needs the Arab and moslem states' help or at the least, a non-hostile posture to prevent a worsening of the civil conflict in Iraq. This means Israel's settlements will be brought into question by America. The moslems will demand it, and we will have to listen. The days of "you're with us or agin us" are over.

It was a total surprise to the EU foreign Minister. He had never been briefed and the moon is made from Nicuraguan cheese.

Many thanks for your recommendation. Jerusalem had been the capital for many centuries and, in 1950, Israel decided Jerusalem would continue to be the capital.

And you certainly have dependable information that Belgium is 25 % Muslim, but your modesty prohibits you to share this information ... right?

"He is not shocked in the fact that Belgium is 25% Muslim" - Sal "The number of Muslims in Belgium is estimated at around 400,000, which is about 4 percent of the total population of the country." - Euro-islam.com Sal, wake up or I take back the quarter I left under your pillow.

we are , since soon enough these buddies of Solana the moron , will scalp his bullshit off.

..on your remarks about the camp david accord.i suggest you read francis a boyle's book. he an american lawyer.very very interesting.while i was sleeping last night according to my local newspaper crossword copied from the new york times jerusalam is now the capital of isreal.did i miss this new piece of new's

I have noticed a distinct increase in the level of disapproval of the policies of successive Israeli governments. People all around the world are beginning to become aware of the repulsive behaviour in the occupied territories. Not a minute too soon. It is about time. This is also being made possible by the voices of true "Peace Seeking" Israelis as opposed to those who think God is in the real estate business.People like Jimmy Carter who is to be admired for saying what is long past due and will give voice to many , many more. America seems to be finally speaking out. There is so much to be told.

people are building homes and communities in the West Bank instead of stoning adultresses and homosexuals, wrapping children in suicide vests, and blowing up night clubs on the beach; how SHOCKING!?!

"Hopefully Isreal never trusts the EU to broker peace. The Czeck people, Austrian people, and Polish people did almost 70 years ago." Either Texan schoolbooks got the foundation date of the EU wrong, or you dropped out of school without the course on contemporary history. Or both.

I am shocked that in the information age there still exists someone who can express "shock" at the "discovery" of the Israeli governments support for settlement growth. But on the other hand last week Solana was "shocked" to learn that the Earth isn't flat so its not that surprising. Solana - leadership so divorced from reality its "shocking"!

If we stopped the 'building illegal settlements' then the world would scream at us destroying Arab housing. All of Judea, Samaria and Gaza BELONG to Israel. Yes all of it, under 3 international laws. Care to name one that says that it belongs to the Arabs? Am willing to bet you can't. Please show us a map from 1949-1966 anytime in there with 'Palestine'. Please do so. Otherwise mind your own business.

This is a typical crap of Arab Islamist-Jihadists. Your knowledge of the history of the Middle East conflict and of Islamist-Jihadism is zero. You would need to do a lot more reading on the subject before you can intelligently comment on this subject. For a start, read "Islam and Terrorism" by Mark A. Gabriel, "Religion of Peace? Islam's War Against The World" by Gregory M. Davis and "Why I Left Jihad" by Walid Shoebat. Most of all, read the Holy Bible which contains the Land Title and Maps Of Israel's Biblical and Historic Homeland--State of Israel including Judea and Samaria.

"Stop building illegal settlements" Cute. Regarding the fact that they don't even remove the outposts which are illegal by THEIR OWN definition.

The "settlement" issue is just the latest excuse to fight Israel and the West. If you question this ask yourself what will all the jihadists do when Israel stops building? Will they stop fighting in the Phillipines? Will the Army of God (Hezbollah)stop shooting rockets into Israel? The answer is no. The jihadists fought Israel before any settlement was ever considered. Its just a lot easier to get uninformed people to sypathize with them if the Palistinian is used as a pawn.

Can you tell me what exactly the shape and size of the Jewish Homeland is.Personally I go by what the UN decides . Hence I accepted the state of Israel as first approved by the Un.For the same reason I accept resolution 242 and the re-assertion of that by the ICJ in July of 2004. It is not in the least bit ambiguous and allows for no semantics to interpret it,s meaning. I do not allow myself the luxury of cherry picking Un resolutions to my advantage. Israel is breaking international laws by continuing to build settlements in the "OCCUPIED TERRITORIES". No ifs ands or buts.Palestinians have every right to resist and the majority of people in Ireland support them.

Oh my god ,,when will Israel relaize that they can be no peace unlesss they dismantle all their illegal settlements that they have built on stolen Palestinian land...they cry 'we want peace' yet they continue stealing land! ...stop crying wolf...if they wanted peace then they can stop stealing land and causing more problems between themselves and the Palestinians...

i think you have it quite the other way around. It is more a case of the utter contmept Israel has for the international community and the scorn it hepas on its leaders as not being pro-zionist-national union enough. The leaders are intimadated by israel that if they say anything critical of the State of its policies as an occupier, then there will be the shrill accusations churned up from the Inquistion, the Holcuasr and they will hold this over the head of Europe. Israel has got to be held to account. It speaks one way and acts another. This can no longer go on and hopefully Solana will start putting action behind his slogans and hold Israel accountable, first by riding Old Hebron of that racist rabble that should be removed and returned to Israel and put on trial.

It is none of Solana's business to interfere in Israel's internal affairs. Israel has all the rights in the world to develop their own Biblical and Historic Homeland of Judea and Samaria which they liberated from the Arab Islamist-Jihadist occupiers in 1967.

They are not occupied , they are "Disputed.

Do the pal terrorists have the intention of stopping terror against Israel? No. This is the reason for the fence and for the Israelis going around with tanks. Can you tell me which borders the pal jihadists recognize? The road map?s bollock is the pal jihadists? goal of wiping the Jews out of the ME.

"Hopefully Isreal never trusts the EU to broker peace. The Czeck people, Austrian people, and Polish people did almost 70 years ago. Today the scars are still visable." Austria?!! Austria was a fully fledged partner in the Nazi onlaught! "Europeans sure know about war and...well war and defeat." We know enough to want to avoid stupid wars, yes. And as to defeat, who is it getting their butt kicked in central Iraq now? Oh yes, your lot. 'the Europeans are so predictable. Criticize Isreal because they know Isreal is the only side that actually listens' You don't seem to know much about Israel either. Israel NEVER listens to criticism from Europe or anybody else for that matter. So come on, Ronnie, we won't try to teach you about Houston or wherever you come from. You don't try to teach us about the world. Then we're all happy.

I would agree with you if the Basque region was occupied, which is not. On the Israel/pal issue; tell me who the ?settlers? are, if the Jews living in Judea and Samaria or the Arabs.

and now he blames the Jews for having written about it and having spread the information about his death. Paulo, is there anything negative for which the Jews are not responsible, or else, is there anything positive about the Jewish people?

is not in doubt.why does the state accept him as an honest broker?

"How did this Jesus/crucifixion discussion get into this Talkback?" - Probably about the same time I was charged with responsibility for the Inquisition. As I keep on saying Im as much responsible for this as the Jews are for the death of Jesus. Are you too stupid to get my point here, should I use finger puppets? "Persecuted the Jews because 'they killed Jesus'" - As I wrote previously I invited people to correct me if I am wrong that it was the Jewish leaders of the time that pushed for Jesus' death. Ive had people criticise me since but no one so far has corrected me. Do not call me ignorant yet challenge nothing of what I have written as nothing but fact. "Can you blame him for his ignorance" - Again Paul highlight the things that I have said which you believe to be wrong. Challenge my arguments your baseless name-calling is just silly.

Kicking out jews from homes they lived in for the last forty years (or returned to after being "ethnically cleansed" by arabs during the previous 100 years)is "ethnic cleansing." By the way, aren't you living on the land of those native Americans whose land was stolen and whom your government ethnically cleansed? And weren't those who survived segregated onto "Indian Reservations." People who live in glass houses should not throw stones.

"Silent Paulo re: the crucifixion of Jesus" - I did reply, Haaretz didnt publish it. Email them for my answer. "Any evidence that Jews have "shouted" or "pushed"...calling for the crucifixion of Yehoshua (Jesus)" - Well I only have this video surveillance footage as well as a little known booked called the bible. Was it not Jewish leaders at the time that pushed for Jesus' death?

The continued expansion of the settlements and the Jewish only road system are proof postive that Israel is not serious about peace and is pursuing a policy of land theft, ethnic cleansing and Apartheid.

I am a Spanish Jew on both sides. We were expelled from Spain in 1492. Why do I not have Spanish citizenship? I am shocked....!!!!! By the way, bureacrats get "shocked" so easily, perhaps when you live on 10000 dollars a month sweet salary from the EU, life outside of the box gets pretty shocking - oh, war - shock, oh hunger - shock, oh disease - shock; Solana should not go to Africa, he might just get a heart attack there from the shocks he'll get...

I did not mention any thing about religion but since you are thinking like that I m going to remind you about that the million Jews have been kill by Portages during the inquisition time and your government must pay the price for the crimes which they did to humanity No I don?t believe we are the chosen one but I believe that land has been belong to us and we are fighting for our existence and will defending for the life of any Jews in any part of the world

Gotta love'em, the Europeans are so predictable. Criticize Isreal because they know Isreal is the only side that actually listens. They actually show equivelance between building "settlements" and terrorism. This is EUs contribution to peace in ME...Europeans sure know about war and...well war and defeat. Hopefully Isreal never trusts the EU to broker peace. The Czeck people, Austrian people, and Polish people did almost 70 years ago. Today the scars are still visable.

Dear friend, You are a man of great knowledge. I am reading all your post and agree with. Can you explain me why Solana and other Euro-politics are blaming Slovakia for not doing enough for security fence on eastern border with Ukraine /protection against illegal emmigrants/ and on the other hand he criticizes israeli security fence against murderers and terrorists. In my view it is very transparent hypokrisy.

I agree with you that the religious establishment must have felt threatened 2000 years ago. Regarding Germany, I could not disagree more. Even among the first West German governments as among the first parliaments there were many former Nazis. Former Nazi judges were teaching law to a new generation of Germans, Nazi physicians, who were part of the Euthanasia programme, were forming new physicians and so on. The vast majority of SS-men never stood trial, even if known to have committed massacres. The Jewish-German author Giordano wrote a book about it, he called it the Second Guilt. And when he received thousands of anti-Semitic hate mails, he published them under the title: How can this generation still breathe?

"But to answer your question wasnt it the Jewish leaders at the time who pushed for his crucifixion? Please correct me if Im wrong." It cretainly was the bent gang of priests in charge of the Temple in Jerusalem who conspired to have Jesus murdered. Their motivation was money. Jesus's turning over of the money-changers' tables and driving out of the livestock there (on sale at inflated prices for sacrifice and making the place look more like a market than a place of worship) threatened a nice little earner they had going. At that point he was a marked man. The priests wanted him dead for this reason and not because of any claim that he was the "King of the Jews".

I am sure this kofi-clone would not be shocked by any other people living there be they Turks or Syrians. It is a waste of time to even read about the concerns of this anti-Israel Euro. In the picture above he is shaking hands with Abdullah of Jordan and I am sure Solana has no idea of the history of the region when Trans-Jordan was forbidden to Jews and designated to be the Arab Palestine. And I wonder if he is 'shocked' by Abdullah's comment that Jordan is now looking to develop WMD in an nuclear arms race brought about by Iranian imperialism. This man is a prime example of why Euros have no business in the Middle East. I hope a bunch of Moroccan boat people move next door to him in Spain.

Mr. Solana, shocked? What is next? Awed? Israel never fails to shock us. Even your inaction does not shock us anymore. so what are you planning to do? To demand that Israel dismantles the settlements or otherwise impose sanctions on Israel, or to wait for another Palestinian suicide bomber to blow himself wherever he/she can. Then you will be shocked again and blame the Palestinians for not giving peace a chance. Then Israel will have an execuse to grab more land to secure its borders, but then you won't be shocked anymore.

"What in Gods name does this have to do with jesus or crucifixion?" answer: it is easier to debate on the crucifixion of a man 2,000 years ago than on the documented and well known crucifixion of the Palestinians. Crucifixion that goes on as we speak. And this one is DOCUMENTED DAILY. Regards

I did not mention any thing about religion but since you are thinking like that I m going to remind you about that the million Jews have been kill by Portages during the inquisition time and your government must pay the price for the crimes which they did to humanity No I don?t believe we are the chosen one but I believe that land has been belong to us and we are fighting for our existence and will defending for the life of any Jews in any part of the world

"The political will is being constructed. It's been too long in which the suffering of people has been very deep ... and the moment we think has arrived to change the approach," - Solana The US is still a prisoner of the past. Condi Rice has visited about a week ago and talked about the Roadmap, the plan that didn't work for almost 4 years because it expected the impossible: Hamas being dismantled. In the meantime, Europe became realistic and adopted the Spanish Peace Plan which wants a national unity government in the PA and does not mention renouncing of violence or explicit recognition of Israel. Even Israel's Livni does not mention it any more, and the same is true for Peretz. Perhaps lightning will strike and Dumbya will get it: What is important is to start negotiations while there is peace and quiet in the Territories (hudna). Get this, negotiate with Abbas, and go to a referendum with a peace plan. The peace plan will win aned the terror groups will lose their followers.

I did not mention any thing about religion but since you are thinking like that I m going to remind you about that the million Jews have been kill by Portages during the equation time and your government must pay the price for the crimes which they did to humanity No I don?t believe we are the chosen one but I believe that land has been belong to us and we are fighting for our existence and will defending for the life of any Jews in any part of the world

How did this Jesus/crucifixion discussion get into this Talkback? Too long, organised Christianity persecuted the Jews because 'they killed Jesus'. It never seemed to get into their minds that Jesus, Mary, Paul, almost the whole lot of the New Testament people were Jews themselves. Or that Jesus HAD TO die to fulfill the prophecies. Whatever you might think about Jesus, I believe it is important that He made it possible for non-Jews to get to know the G'd of Sarah, Rebecca and Rachel. We have knowledge of the Tanakh because of Him. It is true that Christian anti-Judaism is one of the reasons for so much hatred of Israel, but please remember that other Christians support Israel, based on the same faith. And that guy from Portugal? That country expelled the Jews and never had a Reformation. Can you blame him for his ignorance?

"Under the U.S.-backed road map, Israel was supposed to halt settlement construction in the West Bank. The Palestinians were also required to dismantle militant groups, a step they have yet to take." Israel demolished Gush-Katif. What did the Arabs do? Anyway makes no difference. In the words of Omar Kayaham: " ...the moving finger writes and having writ moves on..." At this time next year, the Jewish population of Yehuda-Samaria will approach/surpass the 300,000 mark if the Arabs do not come to terms of some peaceful compromise with us.

'When THE Jews demanded a punishment for a Jew who presented Himself as their King, it was their absolute right to do so'. First of all, many Jews at the time believed Yeshua was Mashiach, so THE Jews did not ask for anything. As usual it was the Orthodox leadership that could not handle opposition. No change there for 2000 years... Secondly, Germany did more to punish the Nazi criminals than a lot of countries where they fled to, helped by the Vatican: South America and fascist Spain and PORTUGAL (all Catholic countries). No day passes in Germany without a tv programme on World War II. In the book shops, half of the history section is about the period 1933-1945. So don't say 'the sons and grand-sons will be judged', as the young Germans are doing their best not to forget the atrocities. What about the great majority of non-Germans involved in the Holocaust: Ukrainians, Lithuanians etc. did their best to make their countries 'Jew free'...

This is becoming bizarre: me, an atheist, being accused to use the bible as a weapon ... but KISS (keeping it short and simple): 1) The bible (may believe in it whoever wants to) reports Jesus being crucified at the demand of and applauded by the Jews of Jerusalem. 2) Never Paulo nor I assigned collective guilt for this event to whomever. 3) When Jews were regarded as guilty for Jesus' crucifixation, this is beyond Paulo's or my responsibility. 4) I regard this case closed.

Or the Inquisition. We have here the EU foreign policy chief who is shocked by the expansion of the occupation and the phenomenon of ongoing land theft under the guise of national security or state land needs. He says he is shocked by this, and rightly so. The question is what is he doing about it? Like Peretz, he seems to be talking in order to avoid taking action or holding Israel accountable for this reality. What is he afraid of? Why does he not call on Israel to dismantle these illegal outpost and to clear the Old City of Hebron of these racist gangs like this Alkobi person and all her ilk? And if not then there will be consequences? Why does the EU allow this violation to continue, supported by the Israeli government will and purse?

Who does this so-called 'EU foreign policy chief' represent? The 27 member states all have different policies on the Middle East, from the 'Arab lovers' France, Belgium and Spain to Israel's allies Germany, Poland, the Netherlands and the Czech Republic. Javier Solana cannot speak on behalf of the Europeans, as the EU Constitution was turned down and as such he represents a non-existent common EU foreign policy. There isn't even a common EU policy on Iraq! The EU couldn't stop the slaugher in former Yugoslavia (Bill Clinton had to help), so why on earth should it get involved in the Middle East crisis? It cannot even get its own act together: the reform needed to adapt an organisation set up for six members and make it workable for a 27 member club. Don't take notice of this clown. He represents nobody.

What a post!!!!! Thank you.

Axel, do you use the Bible as a weapon to hit Yoram? I wish you don't. You know, the Romans crucified Yeshua, not the Jews. Besides, Yeshua knew what was going to happen to him. On the basis of the Old Testament, the Tanakh. He prayed the deed shall not be counted as a sin for crucifiers. Don't blame neither Romans nor Jews. Verstanden?

You are right, both the Hebrew Bible (that you call Old Testament) and the Christian Bible are loaded with mythology. Yet, based on our Hebrew Bible we Jews do not hold anyone responsible for the death of a single individual as we Jews, have been held, for centuries, for the mythological death of one Jewish person. And, it appears, we are still being held responsible by some of the more prolific contributors to this Talkback........

To keep it as short as possible: the comparison is not between Jesus' crucifixion and the holocaust, but between collective guilt of this or that people. Your queer "When the Jews demanded a punishment for a Jew who presented himself as their king, it was their absolute right to do so." may stay uncommented. It simply adds to your portrait as the hateful Jew (an outsider among German Jews, fortunately)

Jeremiah, Israel hasn't annexed very much land and not recently. It is true that Israel has been building more settlements and enlarging settlements. But if Israel and Palestine ever make a peace treaty, and it's agreed that those settlements will go, they'll go. While they're definetely and understandably disturbing for the Pal side, these settlements are temporary, just like they were in Gaza.

"Do either one of you have any evidence that Jews have "shouted" or "pushed" for as both of you have written respectively, calling for the crucifiction of Yehoshua (Jesus) the Jew?" As I wrote " If the evangelists are true ...", you are free to doubt the content of the bible. For those who believe in it, this is as much evidence as you believe that Moses made a covenant with god - for which YOUR evidence is none the better.

This is really a strange comparison. When the Jews demanded a punishment for a Jew who presented himself as their king, it was their absolute right to do so. Comparing this with the Holocaust, where the murderers are still living, is really a strange thing. No one will hold the next German generations responsible for the Holocaust. But the sons and grand-sons will be judged by later generations by their failing to bring the perpetrators of the Holocaust to justice. The overwhelming majority of SS-men and the like never stood trial. Even if convicted abroad like in Italy, they had a nice life in Germany. Rarely did the children dare to ask parents or grand parents what they did during these dark times, because it could hurt very deeply. And this amnesia explains much of their compassion for the ME: If they can prove that Jews are behaving like their ancestors, they can save their soul and sleep well.

The government of Miguel Primo de Rivera decreed in 1924 that every Sephardi could claim Spanish citizenship. This right was used by some refugees during the Second World War, including the Hungarian Jews saved by Ángel Sanz Briz and Giorgio Perlasca.

Can you read? Well, read then 242 and see: the land is under dispute. Obviously Israel has to give away some of it, though not all. 242 asks for Israel's recognition and bilateral negotiations, it doesn't speak a word about "Palestinians" - now, do a favour and start reading, carefully and thinking about what you read. Perhaps you'll understand the contents.

So, if no agreement can be reached this entitles Israel to grab land and keep it? Ever heard of international law, like Geneva Comvention and UN Charter? Or are you one those supremacists who believe Jewish law supersedes international law?

To your knowledge: Hajj Amin el-Hussein (Arafat's relative) introduced terrorism to the British Mandate. Arab terrorsim, by the way, has flourished ever since, virtually without cessation.

Do either one of you have any evidence that Jews have "shouted" or "pushed" for as both of you have written respectively, calling for the crucifiction of Yehoshua (Jesus) the Jew? And if you do not have any evidence, why to even relieve the state of Israel and present time Jews, as Paulo suggested, from an act we do not even know that took place. Your responses, in my mind, says much about what is in your heart that you do not come out and say about us, Jews, out right and straight forward, and by extention, about our state, Israel.....

Oh, USA, Canada, France, Germany and many others can function independently perfectly. Globalization or trade between countries, etc. this is other story and not for discussion here. Multiple wars against Israel indicated that Arab Leaders followed to the priciple - Palestine for Arab country only. Today some Arabs speculatevely agree on two-state solution, but they have so extremistic conditions that the realization of this idea is impossible, basically they quietly are promoting conditions for the next wars. HAMAS does not want to recognize Israel, Syria wants a border with Israel at 10 m from the Kinneret, etc. Goal of these leaders is to eliminate Israel as a state although they do not speak about openly like Ahmedejian.

As a Finn and an EU-citizen I am appalled by Solana's stupidity and onesidedness. What about Israeli Arab population, especially the Muslim element of it, and its shocking growth? Well, frredom movement ETA has to be encouraged, as a matter of fact, the Romans couldn't extinguish the Basques, however, general Franco didn't allow Basque to be spoken, nowadays the French and Spanish police have an agreement, suspect Basque terrorists can be killed on any side of the border. Suspicion being enough for this. Señor Javier Solana, wake up!

Sorry Khalid but I doubt we could share a state. It is painfully obvious that the Moslem population is incapable of practicing a real democracy. This is not a guess but based on the failed states of Lebanon and Algeria, which saw civil wars causing the deaths of ovber half a million of your fellow Moslems. It will be difficult to accept honor killings, and the blatent and horrible poor treatment of your women. I do not want my daughter living in a state ruled by alpha males, and baboons like Nasrallah. We do not want your primitive Sharia Laws. We want our beaches open, our bars busy and the freedom of speech and criticsm that Israel, unlike it's neighbors experience. I do not want to live in a society that uses children as slave labor, nor do I want to have to educate you all to pick up your garbage. I do not like weddings where rifles are fired into the air as a sign of jubilation. History shows that you do not make good neighbors.

What's your problem? If the evangelists are true, Jewish priests accused Jesus before Pilate of treason, and a jewish crowd shouted "Crucify him" when given the coice of pardon for Jesus. And Paulo said expressly that he does not hold the Jews collectively and eternally guilty for Jesus' execution - which is a lot more open-minded compared with those who hold the Germans collectively and eternally guilty for the holocaust, i would add.

any good politician worth his salt, knows the strength of language when seeking headlines. A solanos who is "disturbed" or "surprised" by the growth of Jerusalem's suburbs would not garner headlines. but anytime someone is shocked then it must be reported. Most of the wall is quite quaint, but the section between Beit Jala and Gilo is quite disturbing. The thought that a nation would have to put up a wall to protect itself from terrorist bombers is shocking indeed. But necessary. Sadly it scars the landscape, and in a better world hopefully it can be sold off as souvenirs and as works of conceptual art.

Those "settlements" around Jerusalem are more like suburbs. Both Physically and spiritually but extensions of the city. I realize that the term settlements brings small exposed collections of homes to mind, but Gilo for example is a huge suburb, populated with thousands of people. And they ain't going nowhere. I imagine that any future settlement will have to take in the facts of the ground. This will include and exchange of properties. For example we shall keep Gilo and the Pals will get Um al Fafm, a city of over fifty thousand Moslem Palestinians. I feel that this is only right. What with living under a Jewish regime being "worse than hell'. I am not sure that when the crunch comes that the angry complaining Israeli-Arabs will really want to leave us facist folks. They have it better in Israel than in any of the neighbouring Arab States. Now prove me wrong gang.

What a shocking thing!!Jews have brought a bit of progress and development to the Land of Israel It was the palestinian arab 'leaders' that said no,no,no,to every peace offer,and thought that the world would just stand still.If their potential state just gets smaller and smaller they have none to blame but themselves.

Did I understand you correctly, do you really think the Jews crucified Jesus? All that I expect is a short, straight and clear answer. I look forward to your response.

"St. Marino and Luxemburgh are independent countries but can`t function without link to Italy or to central Europe." No country, be it s.Marino or the USA, can function without external links. Your special reasoning is nonsensical. "Arab Leaders well recognized that in Palestine can be only one country - Jewish or Arabic." I don't know where you get your information on the collective wisdom of Arab leaders, but as far as I know the majority of them is committed to a two-state-solution. Perhaps this is not yet known in your country, wherever it is.

My appreciation to you, Lynn.

As he should be, Solana is shocked at the increased building, expansion of the zionist colonies throughout the occupied territories, the effects of the seperation wall menat to seperate Arabs from Jews. he is shocked and yet he is hopeful that a two state solution is on the horizon because he feels the parties are ripe for reaching agreement? Why then the expansion of the illegal colonies and the building of new ones, the increased roadblocks and worsening economic situation? Where is the will when Israel refuses the overture to negotiate from Syria? Where is the will when Israel feigns sincerity with its "first lets have Provisional borders" (another zionist eurphemism for expansionism and land theft) Wher is the action from the EU against Israel continuing violation of its commitments? Where is the holding this government accountable for once?

Please read 1967 not 1957. "Millitary occupation" was a result of this 6- day war. Arab Leaders did not want to recognize Israel and Jews in their land, therefore Jews had only one choice to be strong and win the battle and we are winning because thechnologicak progress with us, not against us. Do not encourage Iran and other primitive islamic leaders to get nuclear W - it will not serve to the peace. Solution: read my posts.

i know that many like you like to share their feelings with others and are always trying to find other haters with home they can sit down and curse. your problem in such situations is that the jewish people can be blond and blue eyed or african or from the indian sub-continent.we have a chinese jew holding a senior position. so my advice is do be careful who you approach seeking solace in your racism.

i do believe that the west bank is jewish ancestral land.you are welcome to disagree. many but certainly not all of my fellow jews feel that the names of beth-el and shilo would forever hold a place in our hearts.

i often find that when my interlocutors lose the debate they resort to name calling.the more severe the loss the more fanatical and bad-tempered they become.

St. Marino and Luxemburgh are independent countries but can't function without link to Italy or to central Europe. Arab Leaders well recognized that in Palestine can be only one country - Jewish or Arabic. This is why they generated numerous wars against Israel and they still stick to this degraded idea. Now because many transformations in the world and in mind, ther is only one peaceful idea- formation of mini self-governing states in Gaza, Ramallah etc. This will push whole area into tramendous economical and cultural success.

I have to admit that I admire your posts for the reason that you somehow manage to articulate my stance but with much more sense of humor.

Jews gave rebirth to their ancient land, etc. In 1948 Arab countries instead to form an Arab Country in Pal according to 1948 UN resolution started a war against Israel, grabbed a land from Pal Arabs until 1957,when they again attacked Israel. This war they lost again. Arab Leaders continue a hostile policy to Israel. This is why people suffer on both sides. You and others alike must better study history of Jews and stop generate troubles in the world.

"by the same logic, Israel conquered the Arabs and won the land in 67. Let them keep it." By the same logic, the population of conquered lands become sujects of the conquerors, in modern terms: make them citizens of Israel. Either this, or move out. (PS: Of course your logic is lacking anyway, as the rules of the game have changed a bit since Muslims conquered Granada and Jerusalem.)

"Arabs non-citizens of Israel must live in small self-governing mini-states- Gaza, Ramallah, etc. with a tight economical link with Israel" Vital's solution, as you call it, is, of course, the classic South African bantustan approach. Take all the best land, and then corral the natives in little 'independent' areas, where they can serve as cheap labour. Maybe Carter was right, eh? Oh and please dump the Eurabia rubbish. Moslems are still a small minority in most of Europe (3 percent in UK, for instance.) We criticise Israeli settlement policy because it's stupid and counter-productive not because we're run by Islam.

"Shocked!"? As Claude Rains was "shocked" in Casablanca? What planet has Solana been living on for the last 25 years?

..."You scream about settlers but what has any Palestinian done to build..." Still, it is not your land to build. Not until a million years from now. Don't forget that.

by the same logic, Israel conquered the Arabs and won the land in 67. Let them keep it.

You and Khalid have the best common sense solution to date. Please send it along to the Quartet. they need your help in resoving this.

Just trying to be helpful, Flashman. You may not have read Tom Brown's Schooldays or been aware that you have adopted the name of one of the nastiest, most loathesome characters in fiction. It is comparable to calling yourself Ebenezer Scrooge or Gordon Gekko or Nurse Ratched or Norman Bates. Give yourself a nicer handle and folk might react to your messages more positively. Could I suggest Bambi or Lassie or Spartacus? On second thoughts, hold that last suggestion. I am Spartacus. (;-) CF

which brings us to another hypocritical point. Spain won that land through warfare. Which Eurabian country has ever given any land back without a fight? This whole thing is their damned fault to begin with.

No one lives there. You scream about settlers but what has any Palestinian done to build ? It's fallow.

Perhaps we should, lock the door and throw the keys away. No problem - we import nothing from Israel what we couldn't get elsewhere - and have a good laugh watching you try sell your avocados and grapefruit in California!

"Solana is shocked at Jews living in their own homelands....return the lands Spanish Christians stole from Moslems in Spain" - Yacov I think you will find that it was the Muslims that crossed into Iberia and pushed north the Christian powers. You seem to also think that being Muslim suddenly makes you Andalusian, by your reasoning any Christian in the world is suddenly a Spaniard too as that is the official religion of the state. "Palestinians need land. Spanish Christians have plenty" - You forget one crucial problem here, the Palestinians are from Palestine. The Palestinians existed long before Al Andalus did. Look to the Maghrib if you're looking for Andalusians. Need I also remind you that Cordoba was a mixed city with Christians a vital part of its make. Your solution is also an incredibly ridiculous one that completely avoids the realities on the ground today. There are 5 million Palestinians in the world.

this morning I read of a few hundred Yemenite Jews who have been threatened by masked men to leave or have their children abducted and their homes looted. I wonder if this incredible jerk will say anything about that? I just despise the EU hypocrites! Send the Arabs in Palestine to Eurabia.

"the west bank is jewish ancestral land" You wisely do not state your home country in the talkback form: certainly because someone could point out on whose ancestral land YOU are squatting.

I am shocked to see how many Castellanos reside in Madrid. First, the Spaniards did not want the Jews residing in Spain, and now the Jews can not reside in Eretz Israel. Maybe Solana wants to send the Jews to another planet.

The EU should take a more neutral and rational position when looking at Israel. We must get out of the influence of the Jewish lobby in the US and elsewhere and take decisions fitting to our interests. If you look at this discussion in Haaretz only, you see many stubborn Israeli extremists and peculiar figures like the German extremist Jonathan S. from Frankfurt. It does not make sense to take a pro Israeli position as these people obviously do not want a fair deal with the Palestinians and other Arabs. They want it all as they understand it and this is far from reality based on their autistic,destructive convictions.

"Arabs non-citizens of Israel must live in small self-governing mini-states- Gaza, Ramallah, etc. with a tight economical link with Israel,i,e. to function as St. Marino in Italy, or Luxemburgh in Europe." Your project is much better comparable to homelands in former South Africa than a sovereign state like Luxemburg.

"Do you really think the Jews crucified Jesus" - I dont think you understood the point I was making, go back and read it again. But to answer your question wasnt it the Jewish leaders at the time who pushed for his crucifixion? Please correct me if Im wrong. Having said that I certainly do not blame the state of Israel for this but it seems the same standard does not apply to me, apparently I am responsible for the Inquisition.

"Give the Moslem back their stolen lands in Spain" Congratulations, Yacov. You've just mastered the very top of Zionist impertinence: allowing a Muslim claim to Spanish soil because they conquered it in ancient times, but disallowing a Muslim claim to Palestine which they also conquered in ancient times. But at least it throws light on your often-quoted "historical claims" to Palestine.

..."he does not understand what Israel is all about..." I shocked that he said he was shocked. I think he wasn't, but pretended to be shocked. Probably when he come again to West Bank five years from now, he would say the same thing. That's why Iran should have nuclear weapons.

..."he does not understand what Israel is all about..." I shocked that he said he was shocked. I think he wasn't, but pretended to be shocked. Probably when he come again to West Bank five years from now, he would say the same thing. That's why Iran should have nuclear weapons.

Do you really think the Jews crucified Jesus, as you wrote at the end of this post?

names as your considered response then i rest my case.you can have nothing further to say to defend your positions.

"To give rebirth to the land of Samaria and Judea is a holy obligation of Jews" - And does your religion encourage this to occur at the expense of the humanity of another people. Please correct me if Im wrong but isnt to 'love thy neighbour' one of the central moral tenets of your religion. "Solana and you do not understand a historical process in Israel" - No one but religious fanatics are going to understand a 'historical process' that undermines the basic human rights of an entire people. Good luck at convincing the world that this it is god's will that an entire people are to suffer a miserable existence because of some crazy religious fairytale. "This will serve to better life for all population in ME" - Oh yes the Palestinians are having such a great time living under a military occupation. The Lebanese love Israel too, they've never had it better.

and break all ties with Israel, cancel all benefits, introduce a strict visa regime. As I heard, Lukashenko is looking for some friends. Go for it, Israel!

"It is not your business go back to Al Spain" - Again the Arab/Islamic world is on the doorstep of Europe, the Palestine issue is our issue too. Im certainly not going to stand still whilst an entire people are relegated to the status of refugees. Also coming from North America its more fitting you take your own advice. "Future of your nation which Arabs believe that is also Islamic land" - So these 'Arabs' believe Spain is Islamic land? Would you care to elaborate more on these 'Arabs'? There are Jews who embody a racist ideology that they are the chosen ones and every other being is inferior, do you see me judging an entire religion by such an extremist and ignorant standard. Oh well you certainly are a product of your own society, now go eat a donut.

phoeey! the man plays hard ball with the spanish terrorists.rather unshockable i would have thought.

And no racist Arabs- or Spaniards, will stop us. Jews in Israel isn't the same as Jews in Spain. In Spain, we were guest. In Israel- including Hebron, Bethlehem, Shechem, etc..., we are the owners. It is a fact that the more the Philistines try to use violence against us, the more THEY suffer. WE Jews of Judea and Samaria are growing at 6% a year. The Philistines are trying to leave OUR land- according to their own polls. In fact, they ARE leaving our land. Soon enough, WE will take over what are presently THEIR homes. That's the price they pay for waging war against the owners of the land- as per Allah's will.

you are welcome to disagree. we however look aghast as you send your soldiers to afghansitan to kill their civilians in huge numbers.

Its funny, all of the character assasins here defending the indisputable; unofficial Israeli government policy has allowed for a significant acceleration of building and annexation of Palestinian land. I talk to dozens of US and EU embassy workers on a monthly basis, in addition to NGO workers, international observers and indeed Israelis sincere in peace and everyone, to a hilt, agrees with Solana. Unfortunately my government doesn't have the courage to state it publicly and hold Israeli bureaucracy accountable. Solana is not perfect but that does not absolve the Israeli government for dealing with the issue at hand.

Solana is shocked at Jews living in their own homelands of Judea and Samaria? Rather than ethnically cleansing Jews and making Judea and Samaria Judenrein as in Gaza and Nazi Germany, Solana should return the lands Spanish Christians stole from Moslems in Spain, especially around Cordoba. Moslems had a thriving economic, social and cultural community in Spain until the Pope and Spanish Christians ethnically cleansed them and stole their properties. Palestinians need land. Spanish Christians have plenty of land they stole from Moslems. Solana and the E.U. should begin a movement to force Spain to give stolen Moslem lands back to Palestinian Moslems so they can have farms, housing, schools and decent communities. Spanish Christians are using an old tactic of pointing the finger at the Jews to keep the world's attention off of their continued occupation of stolen Moslem lands in Spain.

May I suggest a change of name? "Flashman" is one of the most villanous characters in fiction, a drunken coward who first made his appearance in Tom Brown's Schooldays. He is described thus in Wikipedia: "Flashman - a self-described and unapologetic 'cad' - constantly betrays acquaintances, runs from danger or hides cowering in fear" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry_Paget_Flashman I'm sure this cannot be you. (;-) CF

First of all they were 2 deads, and a lot of dammage. Secondly Spain government discussed with ETA. Whether that is smart or not, that is beside the point

I agree with many your statements including - no Palestinian state. But, Zionizm as a movement in late XIX centuary did not have any idea to recreate Israel without other nations, including Arabs in Ottoman and later in British Palestine. Arabs non-citizens of Israel must live in small self-governing mini-states- Gaza, Ramallah, etc. with a tight economical link with Israel,i,e. to function as St. Marino in Italy, or Luxemburgh in Europe.

solana would and did not dare play these antics with sharon.too powerful a personality.javier was meek as a kitten when ariel was around.

though he finds it rather endearing to lay rude hands on his palestinian interlocutors.he hugs and kisses them.his cold body language when in israel is in stark contrast. long may it be so.

We enacted economic sanctions against the PA when Hamas took over, which was fair enough. If we're going to be fair now, though, the EU should consider economic sanctions against Israel. It's not going to happen, of course, though, because the EU is hopelessly divided on almost all foreign policy issues and there are too many high-ranking sympathisers with Israel in most EU states. I could never believe that Blair made Lord Levy his special envoy to the Middle East. Like judges being taken off a case they have a special interest in, the UK should not be appointing Jews (or Moslems for that matter) to try to help sort the Middle East out.

is made plain in his body language.olmert once touched solana lightly on his sleeve.the spaniard instinctively and forcefully drew away with no little violence.

Your first sentence makes a lot of sense: "A Palestinian state would be a prescription for instability and perpetual tension." Why don't you practice your ideals of democracy in Jordan or Egypt or Iran or Iraq etc, and let us know when you've got it perfected.

their own terrorist problem and have the chuptza to offer us advice on how to deal with the local terrorists.

The building of Greater Israel, a faux approximation to a Biblical Land of Israel that never existed, is at the very core of Israel. It governs all its policies, it explains all its land theft, it underlies all its atrocities against the Palestinian people, who are the stumbling block to its ambitions. That Solana should be shocked at the expansion of Israel's illegal settlements shows that he does not understand what Israel is all about.

The moore build so many settelment in Spain, so many mosques, so many palaces. Where are they? Israel can build all they want in the west bank. Israel will go back to the 1967 borders, tomorrow, in a year or in 50 years. It is a fact and all these settelement will become Palestinian homes unless Israel demolish them like they did in Gaza and the Sina. I believe that Palestinians should not be worried about it any more. The Israeli should be worried because after all these building they are going to have to find homes for these people and it is going to be a big Israeli problems to get them out. Out they will be, sooner or later.

And a big, big Hoorray for Darwin! (The Haaretz team may seek asylum in Malta, or Patagonia, and report the latest news of the change of climate).

I FIND IT SHOCKING HE DOESNT DEAL WITH IRAQ, AFGHANISTAN , BURMA DARFUR , TIBET , TAIWAN , CHECHYNA , KASHMIR , IRAN , ALGERIA , IRELAND , GIBRALTAR , CYPRUS . THE UNTOUCHABLES IN INDIA , HUMAN RIGHTS FOR MUSLIM WOMEN !! AMAZING HOW SINGLE MINDED HE IS ABOUT ISRAEL !!

Spain's Moslem community was extensive and vibrant, especially around the Cordoba area, until Spain's Christians stole their lands and ethnically cleansed them out of Spain. Solana is their ancestor and enjoys the benefits of the stolen Moslem lands and wealth. Rather than preaching to Israel about Jews building on our own homelands of Judea and Samaria, he should return their stolen Spanish lands. Palestinians would have significant property holdings and wealth in Spain if the stolen Moslem properties and wealth were given back to the Palestinians Moslems. Solana is just another example of a European Christian poining the finger at the Jews so as to deflect attention off of the ongoing crimes of European Christians. Jews and Israel must not tolerate being used by Solana in this cynical game that Popes,Kings, Queens, Czars and Preachers have been playing for centuries.

When the nations of Islam will accept the return of the Jews to their sophisticated home and proprieties we will consider leaving to gathers By the way in that case you should make reformation in your holy book too and no more educate your kids to hate the Jews

"Solana is not shocked by the increase of weapons smuggle into Gaza" - And Dean how precisely do you know such information? Have you been at the entry points of these tunnels for the last few years tracking the trafficking of weapons? These are statistics that no one knows so why does an average nobody from Montreal purport to have this information. I can only assume you have just made this up. "The European want to be in good relationship with God and the Devil" - Oh I get it now you're one of those people who believe that when the Jews control Jerusalem again Jesus is going to come back and rescue all the nice Christians. Fool!

"The fact that the Wall saves Jewish lives" - Then build this wall on the Israeli/Palestine green line! Israel is only interested in preserving its settler program. If it were truly interested in the safety of its people it would not be settling them on land stolen from the Palestinians. "His country slaughtered 100,000 Jews" - Semsem you are living in the USA, do you want me to indulge you in a lovely peace of America history. Its a happy story of indigenous Indians and black slavery. Need I also remind you that 40,000 Spaniards were killed by the Franco regime, this was a dictatorship sponsored by your fair country. Do not give out lectures on morality Semsem your record is hardly clean!

"EU contribution to peace? Nada" - Dana you forget that the EU is still the largest aid donour for the Palestinians, more than Iran and more than Saudi Arabia. "By what right do you declare Hamas (or Hezbollah) a terrorist organisation" - Hezbollah is not a "terrorist organisation" by EU standards. Also need I add that you are American so I will not be throwing stones in glass houses. Perhaps your criticism of Palestinian policy should start a little closer to home.

No one can stop Isreali to build on their land From Carter to George Bush Senior to Clinton, all of them had tried to stop Israel`s settlements. Who do you think you are Solana? And also who do you think you are too?

To give rebirth to the land of Samaria and Judea is a holly obligation of jews. This will serve to better life for all population in ME including "fulesteenes." Solana and you do not understand a historical process in Israel, in a former Ottoman and later Briish colony, in the land which belongs historically to Jews.

"He makes the EU look like idiots" - How so? He is merely expressing the international standard here that all Jewish construction on Palestinian land is illegal. Wouldnt you be shocked by this woeful ignorance of international law? Actually probably not I forget you're from North America. Celine Dion also comes from Quebec, talk about embarrassing and idiotic. I can certainly understand why France is ashamed of you all.

"For the sake of not missing yet another opportunity for peaceful coexistence....place pressure upon their leaders to accept the three points listed above" - Nadav there is a huge fact that you keep on ignoring here and that is that Israel also has not acknowledged these signed agreements. "You, Arabs, may use the Haaretz talkback to call upon your leaders to adhere to the three points" - Nadav take your own advice and call up your silly PM! If you are truly serious about peace why do you impose on the Palestinians conditions which you yourself do not want Israel to also comply with. Why should there be one set of rules for the Palestinians and one set for the Israelis? I would also appreciate a response that does not degenerate me as some sort of anti-Semite responsible for the expulsion of Jews from Iberia. I dont blame you for the crucifixion of Jesus.

"Practice on Spain first. Lets see your success there" - Ok how about the fact that since talks between the Basques and Madrid violence perpetrated by ETA has been on the wane.

He knew it all along, he is just trying to justify his own and EU's impotence.

A Palestinian state would be a prescription for instability and perpetual tension. Israel and the West Bank and Gaza ought to for one civil state for all, irrespective of religion or ethnicity. And Zionism will have to give up the ghost. One state for all....and equality for all and justice for all. This is what I call a durable solution...and if some Jews want to have a pure Jewish state they can rent an island in the Pacific or puchace some land in Canada and have "a Talmudistan Kingdom"....!

"He is even more determined to go the path...which consists of giving the terrorists all they want" - Now ETA have asked for the release of all its militants from Spanish gaols. Are you telling me the Spanish Government has done this? You clearly know nothing about this situation yet purport to know much through clear and vapid lies. "Basques are Spanish like anyone else" - Yes just like the Portuguese are Spanish. The Basques have their own language and distinct culture. Artificial lines on a map doesnt clearly delineate your identity, which Im sure as an Israeli I dont have to tell you about.

..."chief Javier Solana Sunday urged Israel to freeze West Bank settlements and stop constructing the security fence..." With all due respect, Israel is laughing at you, Solana. Maskiot Settlement will be ready within one year as a compensation for those who are removed from Gaza. NOTHING CAN'T STOP ISRAEL FROM FURTHER STEALING OF PALESTINIAN LANDS. From Carter to George Bush Senior to Clinton, all of them had tried to stop Israel's settlements. Who do you think you are Solana?

We are a patient people, and know that this artificial 'community' of racist colonial settlers are only temporary...and it is only a matter of time before justice is served. Either the settlements will destroyed, or you get one person one vote. - We Shall Return.

"Solana must be the biggest hypocrite...Spain's government and people rightfully refused to deal with the perpetrators" - You do realise that Solana works for the EU and is not part of the current Spanish Government. I think you will also find that Solana was one of the first public figures to support talks with ETA way back in 1971. I think you will also find Solana knows a bit about tyrannical militaristic regimes that are sponsored by the US. He was a fierce Franco opponent, not that I expect you to know who he is. "When the UK negotiates with the IRA...then Israel should negotiate with Hamas" - Wow your knowledge of current affairs is absolutely horrendous. You do realise that the British government has been in talks with the IRA since 1993! We are now in the year 2007!

It is better for you that will be worry about future of your nation which Arabs believe that is also Islamic land

Now that that is taken care of,let us now talk of the messiah.

The October events in 2005 at the border between Africa and the Spanish EU settlement in Morroco as reported in the press: "...Groups of hundreds of Africans tried to storm the razor-wire fences separating Morocco from two Spanish enclaves on the African mainland in hopes of reaching European Union soil. At least 14 people were killed, most by gunfire from security forces. Dozens more were hurt in the crush against the razor-sharp 10-foot fence." Lecturing us about fences and occupation? We build a fence to protect ourselves from terror attacks, not from Africans who seek a better life for their family, willing to do any job racist wellfare-spoiled Europeans refuse to do. What is shocking is Solana's hypocricy!

It is amazing that you know so much about me. You should become magician or better yet try nearest mental institution. Good luck. Maybe they will help you.

please don't embarrass us swedes by showing your illiteracy. Go and read UNSC 242.

....of Israel's right to exist, the longer it delays the acceptance of signed agreements, the longer it continues to attempt to terrorize Israelis, the longer it will take to reach an agreement between the sides. And while no peace process takes place, Jews fill in the vacume and settle in the disputed territories, which are after all part of the Jewish people's homeland as well. For the sake of not missing yet another opportunity for peaceful coexistence with the Jewish people and its state, the state of Israel, I call upon the Arabs of Eretz Israel/Palestine to place pressure upon their leaders to accept the three points listed above - a demand of the international community - and by so doing advance the real talks about settling the dispute. You, Arabs, may use the Haaretz Talkback to call upon your leaders to adhere to the three points. Would you call them?

It suprises me that some people who claims to be friends of Israel think it is a final solution to occupy the Gaza strip (Yes it is still under occ) and west bank. It is against international law. More weapons to the IDF, more settlements and more apartheidlaws is apparently the long lasting solution. How ignorant you are.What is wrong with you?

Uh, Jews ALWAYS lived in Judea, Samaria, and Gaza- for THOUSANDS of years straight; until the Arabs ethnically cleansed ALL Jews in 1948. We won't allow that again in OUR land. And as you can see, OUR lives are back to normal. The Arabs' strategy of terror backfired and THEY are thew ones suffering. We can go on like this indefinitely. They will starve to death soon. It's up to them. PS There was PLENTY of Arab terror in 1947 and before. In fact, On the day after the adoption UN 181 (that would have also created a "Palestinian" state), seven Jews were killed by Arabs in three separate incidents. On December 2nd, an Arab mob looted and burned shops in the Jewish commercial district in Jerusalem. By December 11th, 70 Jews had been murdered by Arab terrorists. In fact, between November 30, 1947 and February 1, 1948, 381 Jews were killed by Arab terrorists and 725 Jews were wounded. In March 1948 alone, 271 Jews were killed. There were no "settlements" then.

EU has been kowtowinbg to the US and Jewish lobbies since 2001.. Whether it is by acquiescing to the settlerments (by nbot declaring a boyoctt), or by rtefusing to deal with Hamas, or by attacking the palestinians while leaving israel off the hook. By what right do you declare hamas (or hezbollah) a terrorist organization and not israel? what israel has done to the west bank and the palestinians, not to mention gaza, is a war crime of major proportions. Those settlements are a criminal and ugly land grab, and the pogroms by settlers? even worse. Time for a boycott of Israel. Not an organized one, but an individual one. each person should boycott whichever part they feel deserves it most. Neither would I make it anything official. Keep it quiet. But do it.

If Solano represents the reality of the big build up about how EU is going to step in and repace US as the driving force for palestinian/israeli peace negotiations, then once again the palestinians are doomed. Let's use a bit of logic here: since he is starting off his effort by unilaterally attacking Israel while not mentioning palestinian failures, then he is either acting in bad faith as a mediator, or he has already decided that it is palestinian intransigence that is preventing progress, therefore all he has to do to establish his position is to appear to the palestinians as being "on their side". He doesn't seem to fear that unilaterally attacking Israel will destroy his effectiveness as a mediator, which must mean that he must think that Israel is so desparate for peace that they will accept anything he proposes. Or on the other hand, he might just be an idiot.

J can mass debate himself to death in these columns.He knows little, reads little and knows what is "good for the Jews".

"NO TERROR = NO MORE SETTLEMENTS & A PALESTIAN STATE" Uh, they weren't terrorists in 1947 and it got them MORE SETTLEMENTS & a JEWISH STATE. Thanks to JEWISH TERRORISTS.

"Smuggle weapons" into Palestine? That was done by the Stern Gang and Irgun (IDF), who also introduced terrorism to Palestine.

Solana, alas, but it has taken you far too long to realize the insiduous encroaching activity of the settler organization! Would you believe that the settlers have now produced a so-called "Human Rights" organization of their own?!

in south africa he would be called a doos.

Ah Solana, Solana.... What a terrorist apppeaser he is.

And may this hypocrite be more shocked in the future.. !!Go for it Israel!

with terrorists. can you imagine that? questioning the wisdom of talking with terrorists. why they keep teeling us we must, we should it is the only wise thing to do.

Stealing of land by Israel is stealing, you know theft is a theft. Fortunatelly most of the Jews I know are opposed to Israeli occupation and this dirty appartheid. Unfortunatelly, only those crazy politicians decide that theft is bad unless it is done by Israel. Didn't Mama tell you that stealing is bad. Shame on you .

road map always been a lots of bollocks. It asks the pal to disarm but allows israel to bully around with tanks, helicopters, weapons of all sorts. It asks the israeli to stop settlements and israel sticks a finger in front of the quartet. It force the pal to vote under oppression and then punish them for voting "wrong". It asks interim borders knowing that israel will never respect them anyway. Solana is surprised? Im surprised at his surprise!

This guy makes the EU look like a bunch of idiots. Is he their Foreign Minister for life?

The fact that the Wall saves Jewish lives is not important to this grandchild of the Spanish Inquisition. His country slaughtered 100,000 Jews, forced 100,000 to convert to Christianity and expelled another 100,000.

How cum this wonderboy isn't concerned about Muslim growth in th EU??? Hmmmmm....

There are lots of Israelis and Palestinians who want peace along the lines of the two-state solution. But one must wonder if this is even possible anymore. Is a viable Palestinian state possible? Can the Jews living in the territories stay as Palestinians? Are they willing to stay on that basis?

Solana should rather dismantle his shocking settlements in the Basque occupied territories

He doesnt like the fence so why doesnt he spend some time in Israel like an ordinary person would not a diplomat. He can stay in the Park Hotel, go out for lunch at Sabro Pizza, then go for a couple of drinks at Mikes Place bar followed by abit of nightclubbing in Tel Aviv.... his trip will be a real bang He doesnt like the fence or the new settlement construction then how about instead of spending his time talking about the things he doesnt like it could be better spent by putting the preasure on hamas and the rest of the terrorists NO TERROR = NO FENCE NO TERROR = NO MORE SETTLEMENTS & A PALESTIAN STATE

by the increase of weapons smuggle into Gaza. As per usual the European want to be in good relationship with God and the Devil..... therefore they are a bunch of hypocrite waiting for somebody else to do the dirty work.....

Javier "jet lag" Solana blows it again! Another slip of the tongue. He had talks "with different actors" in the US & the region?? Surely he meant "players" as in "leaders"--maybe not. Check his itinerary. He is sounding more and more like Paris Hilton Everyday!

them.

He is responsible for the killing of civilians in the former Yugoslavia, that?s right, but he said it was normal since the Serbs used civilians as human shields, and that, even if NATO was sorry, this would not stop the bombardments. This was right because it was not Israel fighting the Islamofascists, who also use human shields. Solana shouldn?t go home. He and his ilk should better go to the outer space, the further away, the better.

I do not know if you can call ?a single bomb? to some 800 kilos explosives. And two people got killed. How mistaken you are. The Spanish government does not refuse to talk to the terrorists who perpetrated the attack and have murdered about 1,000 people and maimed thousands more. On the contrary, they are on surrender talks with them and the bomb at the Madrid airport doesn?t stop them. Solana?s boss said he is even more determined to go the path he had previously decided, which consists of giving the terrorists all they want. And because of this, he is persecuting the victims of the terrorists and all the people who oppose the ?peace process?, as they call it, and which any sane person will call complicity with terrorist gang. Spain has nothing to negotiate with the Basques because the Basques are Spanish like anyone else and they are also murdered by the terrorists the government has allied with. I agree with you that Israel shouldn?t do what those people want.

I was thinking the same. And maybe they would increase the aid to the pal terrorists to have them content. Please, Duncan, do not talk about that solution. It makes me cry. I hope they do not reach those heights again.:(

"Let?s suppose talks begin and the pals start a new intifada, as they did in 2000, when they left Camp David. I wonder how Solana and the EU would react." I believe they would use their best diplomats to find a way to blame Israel. They must know that Doveish Ebban dubbed the '67 indefensible borders the Aushwitz borders, and despite this, that is where they want the Jews to go again. This raises the question do the Europens want a 'final status solution' or do they leave mtters of status out and go for a 'final solution.' Duncan

Let?s suppose talks begin and the pals start a new intifada, as they did in 2000, when they left Camp David. I wonder how Solana and the EU would react.

I do not believe you would be glad with Solana party?s solution for Spain. Their specialty is to give the terrorists what the terrorists want and putting themselves and the people in the terrorists? hands. They call it ?peace process?.

The Euros love diplomacy for its own sake. It could go on forever with no results as far as they are concerned. That would make them very happy. As long as they are involved, and everyone is "talking" they whole world could go to pot - but give us our diplomacy.

Solana is speaking only for the interests of the bureaucracy in Brussels. He has no mandate to speak for Europe, to act as an European FM. Many members of the European Parliament have criticised the solo gangs of this man who is married to a daughter of Franco’s closest generals. He is the man responsible for the bombardment of former Yugoslavia without any UN or other mandate. Ariel Sharon rightly refused to meet him. Solana is getting very high marks in Tehran and Moscow. If he must be received in Israel, he should be met by the deputy minister of commerce.

''Solana indicated that the EU and regional governments supported a "final status solution" between Israel and the Palestinians '' To be honest the Europeans do have a certain amount experience in these matters. No doubt they also realise that the exact status of each side is not that important when looking at the big picture and they plan to leave out status issues for the present. After all leaving out status by Europe has met with considerble success in the past. Duncan

in the world. A single bomb recently went off at Madrid airport. I believe no one was killed. Spain's government and people rightfully refused to deal with the perpetrators reportedly Basque separatists. Yet Solana, representing the EU, wants Israel to negotiate with Hamas, who has killed hundreds of Israelis with suicide bombs and promises more of the same. When his native Spain negotiates with the Basques, when the French negotiate with the Corsicans, when the UK negotiates with the IRA and its' Muslim fundamentalists about converting the UK to a Muslim country under Sharia Law, then Israel shoild negotiate with Hamas.

maybe a statement from Solana and his ilk that the 'peace process' is dead for the foreseeable future might do more good than keeping up some foolish pretense ?!

-ded by his native country after terror from ETA. He should do as he preaches to Israel "Peace is made between enemies."