Sarkozy tells PM: Palestinian refugees will not return to Israel

I guess when everything fails, personal attack is the best that you can do. What bothers you most when you attack Sarkozy?? The fact that he supports Israel's right to exist?? You stated many times on the Haaretz forum that you believed that Israel has a right to exist. You are a liar!! Your comments expose you as a trickster and a verbal gymnast.When everything fails personal attacks is what you good at go fluck yourself!!

I guess when everything fails, personal attack is the best that you can do. What bothers you most when you attack Sarkozy?? The fact that he supports Israel's right to exist?? You stated many times on the Haaretz forum that you believed that Israel has a right to exist. You are a liar!! Your comments expose you as a trickster and a verbal gymnast.When everything fails personal attacks is what you good at go fluck yourself!!

I guess when everything fails, personal attack is the best that you can do. What bothers you most when you attack Sarkozy?? The fact that he supports Israel's right to exist?? You stated many times on the Haaretz forum that you believed that Israel has a right to exist. You are a liar!! Your comments expose you as a trickster and a verbal gymnast.When everything fails personal attacks is what you good at go fluck yourself!!

I guess when everything fails, personal attack is the best that you can do. What bothers you most when you attack Sarkozy?? The fact that he supports Israel's right to exist?? You stated many times on the Haaretz forum that you believed that Israel has a right to exist. You are a liar!! Your comments expose you as a trickster and a verbal gymnast.When everything fails personal attacks is what you good at go fluck yourself!!

No one should trust Israel-Firsters in their own countries because such individuals will allow, and, in fact, actively assist in the hijacking of their respective countries' body politic in a manner detrimental to the welfare of their country. This is what has happened in the USA where Israeli special interest groups such as the America Israel Public Affairs Committtee (AIPAC), has corrupted America's body politic to the extent that American politicians seem to be more concerned for the welfare of Israelis than for Americans given their fear of AIPAC. Sarkozy is first, and foremost, an Israel-Firster than he is a Frenchman, and he will betray France for the benefit of Israel any day of the week. Secondly, while Sarkozy, is of Jewish origin, his blanket zealotry for the cause of Israel-Firstism and wilful denial over the fact that Israel is a racist apartheid state, over the wonderful principles of Judaism developed over millenia are an insult to all Jewish people!!!

AZ: "Their claim is part of the BIG CLAIM:where is Palestine?" No, ya' nitwit; their claim is an INDIVIDUAL'S claim, so power politics does not effect it. Anyone ejected from their home has an INDIVIDUAL'S right to return to that home so long as they remain entitled to the nationality of the state that encompasses that home. There was a Mandate between '22 - '48. The Mandatory had an obligation to grant Pal nationality upon anyone who was living on that land. It could not dodge that, and if the Mandatory ejected anyone then that refugee had the right to insist that the Mandatory TAKE THEM BACK. Once "Israel" suceeded the "Mandate" in THAT area then THAT obligation went with THAT succession i.e. anyone who was living on land that BECAME Israel also BECAME Israelis and that was not extinguished simply because the State ejected them over the border. That remains THEIR RIGHT, and is not affected by YOUR PARANOIA, and so you have to PAY THEM OFF, not FOB THEM OFF.

Kathy. Jesus ! Flavius Josephus mentioned him in his book 'The Wars of the Jews'. See William Whiston's page 648 where ha wrote : "Jesus son of Joseph ringleader of the robbers" Flavius words not mine.

"The Palestinians who claim a RoR"Johnboy. Their claim is part of the BIG CLAIM:where is Palestine? And that is my subject. You can't discuss part & ignore the REAL SUBJECT.Even you must understand that?& that goes to what you said "The people who were made refugees in 47-49".The people in Transjordan in 47-49 all of them were Palestinians before 47-49. ALL HOLDERS OF PALESTINIANS PASSPORTS &IDs. None of them 'share's'Johnboy only 'Palestinian 'ethnicity'Johnboy.Besides,there was no Transjordan EVERin History before 1922.Not even in thin air!(read your History). "Regarded as Jordanian".Johnboy;why not regarded people from the moon ?There was NO TRANSJORDAN. TRANSJORDAN was in the imagination of the Imperialist Winston Churchill who created it as an Imperial Carrison in the heart of the ME? "This is Jordan Problem,not Israel's". What is stolen can't be the problem of the thief! IT IS THE PROBLEM! NO REAL SOLUTION WITHOUT THIS PROBLEM. Sorry,Johnboy read History

Thx for your post Kathy and I agree with all you wrote. It sickens me that as soon as a top European leader states the obvious, these people immediately reply with "He's a Jew!!!" It's so pathetic. Before the elections, Sarkozy made it clear that things were going to change and that he was going to be tough on the Moslems and immigration, etc. British ppl are also sick and tired of the Moslems over there with all their demands, trying to force a change in tradition and culture. The fact that no PM has had the balls to deal with them is a disgrace. They'd better wake up at the top bofore its too late. The British National Party is already gaining support. Best Wishes!

"Do you record the religion of ALL politicians who criticise Moslems or only some?" - Peter Very good point Peter. And was Chirac's ancestry ever been put under a microscope to detect any Arab roots? Sarkozy's tough line on Moslems was well known before the elections, so why are these ppl suddenly raising their eyebrows?

Dear Philippe, Thanks for post! What is so funny is that these ignorant people try to teach us what our laws are, when they know nothing. They're desperate to call Sarkozy Jewish to provide themselves with a good "excuse" for his words (and hopefully actions). The fact that Chirac was so blatantly pro-Arab never bothered anyone. No-one ever searched for Arab roots. Best Wishes and vive le France et Sarkozy!

I didnt post 309 so dony know what you're referring to but: In Christianity, a baby is born without a religion and if the parents so choose, becomes a Christian by being baptised (called a Christening!). Judaism is different. A person is a Jew according to his maternal bloodline, whether his parents like it or not. If a Jew doesnt follow the religion, it does not mean he is not a Jew. If a non-Jew started following Judaism it would not make him a Jew. It has nothing to do with belief or following Judaism, but has everything to do with the maternal bloodline which is the only criteron that counts.

Reading the posts on this forum, one can see the divison between those who are truly for Peace and those who are just after troubles. Sarkozy raffles the feathers of those who are hiding behind lies.Isn't this conflict is all about lies ? Those demanding the return of the refugees let them think of the consequencess : Palestine: Suffering from high unemplyment and poverty & neveer selfsuficient in Jobs and highly depending on foriegn aids.They have a failed economy &a failed adminstration. Israel:Its neighbours the Palestinians attacking her every day.Bringing more Palestinians to Israel will make the situation even worse for Israel and the Palestinians.And encourage more conflict and blood shed ? So,where is the Peace in all that ? So,how who are demanding the return of the refugees' can help Israel & the Palestinians and Peace with their demand ? Peace,above all needs honesty. But, alas the the Palestinians leaders lost all their credit in that department.

Howdy, the churches in Europe become emptier and emptier, this is a fact. Many people go out of tradition to church for Xmas, but for the rest of year most of them are absent.

and there were some escapees, CHP vote no en masse. Think about it, if US did not help the PKK, why Turkey would have any benefit of saying that they did ??? What is the point ?? US IS helping the PKK and they would not have invaded the place if there was a Saddam 1000 times more tyrant than the original but there was no oil. If you call all this as "normality" or "the way the things must happen" then I have no arguments to offer. About Sarkozy by the way, he managed to dynamite the french establishment.

For your first point I agree with you. For the second point, muslim immigrant and their french heirs make up 10% of french population (for the ones we know of). Like I said their higher birth rates is a factor in the french fertility exception, though it is not the only one. No islamophobia there.

Danite hello I do not need to read articles or books on the subject of Christianity.I almost know it all by heart.Better not go into that area for it will serve no purpose. When I sent you the response I merely agreed that Jesus was crucified for his stance against the Romans at the time.I said it many times that Jesus was a good Jew,praticed his religion from our bible and taught his deciples from it(as some were a bit ignorant)At the time the Jews were craving for the Massiah to come,and there were many who tried.Jesus managed well by his teachings,at the end however it was Paul/Shaul who after persecuting Jesus he suddenly had the so-called vision on his way to Damascus and thus he was the one who promulgated the faith.Much happened befor Christianity took shape after Constantine decided to convert(however still prayed to his idols)which be question of the inconsistency of the NT.It took many centuries with many addition and distortions.A complex subject...

to reject the tezkere by itself. However AKP did have enough members in TBMM to pass it without the support of other parties. Yes I admit that the Iraqi war has something to do with oil in addition to Saddams bad behavior. And I do not support it. USA did not kill 1 million in Iraq, the Arabs are doing that to themselves. Shia and Sunni fighting each other. CNN did not say that USA gave arms to PKK. It reported that the stolen US arms were found in the hands of the PKK.

Anyone who sees the crimes perpetrated by 'Israel' against the indigenous Palestinians has every right to interfere in its affairs.

and Tayyip then appeared on the TV, trying to be nice to the americans he has put the blame on the CHP. Americans have created a kind of terror in Iraq unheard of anywhere else in the world. All this why ? For Saddam ??? No, for OIL, can you contest me on that ? So for you killing one million people so that a bastard in the midwest can drive his 4x4 paying less bucks is okay right ? David Israel I do not believe you are such a bad person, sit down and think a little. Look, I sometimes agree with you, you can agree with me too, why not think freely, without all this money, muslim,jewish mamboo-jambo, think as a human being.

US is not a passive observer watching the PKK, it gives weapons to it, all international media, even the CNN admitted it. So this automatically cancels any necessity to discuss on this anymore but let us continue for argumen's sake. You say that the teskere was a mistake. Well, what if I ask Americans a teskere saying that the Turkish army wants to invade Canada. Iraq is a neighbour country, America is on the other side in the asshole of the world, what does it have to do here in the first place ? And who wanted the teskere to pass ????? AKP !!! So you criticize the AKP but they were the ones who wanted to pass it, the whole affair does not have absolutely anything to do with the stand PKK adopted during the teskere voting period, this you invent yourself. And one other thing, the fact that AKP is bad does not make US or IDF good, you can have multiple evils at the same time on this damned planet. And iki yanlis bir dogru etmez: two wrongs do not make a right.

Tulip, here in Europe the Church-services on Sundays and on special Holidays are televised for people to watch and enjoy in the peace of their homes. To those, who are sick and old and have small(noisy and lively)children, this arrangement is very convenient and considerate. For Jews to watch telly on Shabbat is forbidden and I guess(?)for Moslems too. For Xians NOT! PS.: I recomend you go to see just how full to the brink churches are in Xmas-time and at Easter breaking from their seams!

Jean-Paul Just a quicky for you and I'd be pleased to hear your reply.Are you of an Algerian descent? Simple question. Apart from this,what is your connection with Israel,and why the intrusion in our affairs? It has nothing to do with you,and if your new President decides to take part in Israel it is his prerogative....

Peter And it turned out to be an anti-Jews/Israel one A disgustingone at that too,because the writer was also confirming "The Elders of Zion"to be an authentic one.He calls Sarkozy a Pork eater Jew and I need not go any further. I am mentioning it here because this are the type of people who are hungry to find anything which will denigrate our people. And by the way,what does it matter if Sarkozy is a Jew or not? I said it in my post to Dakkar that was not Mr.Mandes France a Jew?What about LEON BLUM? Whereby the Kibbbutz Kfar Blum is named aftr him....

Mark hello In short you are absolutely correct,and I hope President Sarkozy continues,and goes from strength to strength.France has been conducting their affairs by "pussy footing"under Chirak for a long time,and now comes this younger man who does have the guts for reconstruction and maintaining the country with some semblance of a true democracy,and not bow down I hope to the Islamists who want to take the country over.Frightening really on their numbers.But then it was because of the Algerians and consequently having allowed many into the country.Whatever the rason Sarkozy is brave and he will be a champion of all...

JN: "As you undoubtedly recall, it was the Arab leadership which made repeated calls for the Palestinian Arabs to temporarily leave until after the Arab armies of Egypt, Jordan, Syria, Lebanon, Iraq, and the Palestinian irregulars had defeated the fledgling State of Israel...." As you undoubtedly recall, the Israeli archives have opened up, and historians like Benny Morris have searched and searched those archives for the transcripts of the radio intercepts made when those Arab leaders "broadcast" those "repeated calls". None were found. It was an urban myth. Morris et al. also looked in the archives for the now-yellowed posters exhorting the Arabs to flee. Nothing. No Israeli intelligence organization ever came across any, apparently. So tell me, Jeff, if sophisticated Israeli military intel assets never heard such calls then how, exactly, did simple Arab villagers receive them? Telepathy, perhaps?

What I said is that the Turkish government made a serious mistake in defending Turkish interest by rejecting the 1 Mart Tezkeresi. It was not a friendly thing for USA. While the Iraqi Kurds were inviting USA to Iraq the Turkish Kurds and the PKK were protesting in the streets of Turkey against the Iraqi war and your government fell into this trap. Now Turkey lost the opportunity of controlling north Iraq and suffering escalating PKK terror. Kurds are friendlier to USA and the primary duty of US administration is to defend the US interests. Although PKK is in US terrorist list US has bigger problems to fix in Iraq. I do not believe that US is supporting PKK, it just does not have the resources to deal with it. And it is all because of you the Turkish public who does not have the common sense of electing the proper leaders. Blame not others but yourself. Kendi dusen aglamaz.He who falls on his own does not cry.

Dakkar The problem with some people is they go a look for any information to try and debunk truth,. The website that this tad,went is an anti-Jews and Israel,plus the inclusion of "The Elderd of Zion"being a definite truth.You can then understand where this people are coming from and what they seem to believe for their pleasure in denigrating Jews. Even if Mr.Sarkozyis a Jew what does it matter? Didn't France also have Mr.Mandes France?Leon Blum etc.These people need to justify their hate by bringing in Sarkozi's Jewish background. They also forget how France is suffering from the Jihadist,many attacks where many police were killed this year alone and the French are sick and tired by the multitude of Muslims who are disrupting the normal life into the bargain.They come here and denigrate our people and do not like to hear the truth about themselves. P/S Haaretz,you did not put some of my posts yesterday.Be so good and let Dakkar#408 read this.Toda

chip. Because you say we should have allowed the Americans to pass through Turkey to invade Iraq from th north. If we did that, then US would not have helped PKK, is that what you say ? In this case, you explicitly admit that US's support or non-support of terrorism is conditional. If this is so, we have to write the chapter again, from the beginning David. You say PKK is terrorist but when I ask you why US is helping it, you are silent, or you say other, irrelevant things, you escape from the discourse. You do it because you have no other way to go, you are living in a country that gives money and weapon to a terror organization that kill the citizens and soldiers of a country far far away, you once were a citizen of. How do you feel David ? Happy ?

and Israel in 2007 , means he/she is extremely ignorant in ME history, "why they hate the infidels so much !" why pope Woytyla excused to muslims for the crusades expeditions which continue even today when Bush's war in Iraq is a crusade (for oil)and democracy from who massacred entire native American nations in the name of Jesus christ so does the Spanish in latin america , when Muslims have a Qor'an the west will never prevail , read ME history and Qor'an beside your Bible , you will receive a reply to your question , go in peace Maria

Bit off topic spiritual discussion, sorry guys, I'll make it brief. Hi there Jeff :) Your quote: knowledge of God?--Ooh, that`s hard to do unless you experience an ego death. - Jeff N. Well said! A question for you though. Regarding any of the religion you've studied, do you know what are the dynamics to receive word of G-d? Moses carried on a complex conversation; other levels I'd imagine would be child speech, hearing one or two simple commands and on up to the more complex Moses speech. Any info appreciated. lupiness@gmail.com Now back to Sarkozy. I remember seeing Paris burning, amid chants of "Get out of my Occupied France." I'm glad they have someone new to handle the situation. A changing of the guard was certainly in order.

Hey sweetheart, my town was established by JEWS in 1891 not after 1948. 1891 is a little before 1948 wouldnt you agree? As for all your zionist versus Jew spiel, zionsim simply means "a belief in a homeland for the Jews", that's why there are millions of Christian zionists. YOU are certainly unable to tell the difference between zionist and Jew!! Furthermore, it has been genetically proven by DNA that European Jews originated in the Middle East AND there is shared maternal ancestry between European, Sephardic and Oriental Jews. Why dont you learn some facts before you come here blabbering. BTW, its the Arabs who are terrorizing around the whole globe.

ask you this:how many UN resolutions has israel violated&how many india?israel has been a pain since its establishment!

There was no massacre at Dier Yassin as has been proved many times. The Iraqi army was there sniping at drivers on the Jerusalem road. The Jews approached Dier Yassin with loud speakers telling the villagers to flee so they could engage with gunmen. You can see documentaries where Arabs clearly state there was no massacre, but a battle, and that Arab leaders spread tales of atrocities to encourage Arab armies to come in and join the fighting. There was no massacre at Tantura - ONE person did a master's degree on a so-called massacre and then had to retract after the Alexandri Brigade who fought there threatened to take legal action. Sabra & Shatilla are in Lebanon and that was work of the Christian Philange. Jenin - you are crazy, even the UN admitted there was no massacre. Pals claimed over 1,000 dead - in reality 52 mostly terrorists along with 23 Israeli soldiers. You dont mention the Arab massacre of Jews in Hebron, Kfar Etzion, etc. You call other people DISHONEST - huh!!

Dont you think you have a nerve telling us who is Jewish and who is not? For the umpteenth time "Jewishness" goes according to the maternal bloodline. What is so difficult for you to understand? How can you say that his biography does not indicate that? You read but dont understand. It clearly states that his grandmother was Catholic and therefore his mother is not Jewish and therefore, he himself is not Jewish BECAUSE THERE IS NO MATERNAL JEWISH BLOODLINE. That is why there are about 300,000 people here who want to convert. Their fathers are Jewish but their mothers are not, so therefore they themselves are NOT Jewish. Getting back to Sarkozy, he is a practicing Roman Catholic.

"it is easier for the a camel to go through the eye of a needle than a rich man to enter the gates of heaven" Wealth and comfort are like soundproofing a room. You hear nothing from outside.

Free to declare he is a JEW at least!

and maybe that palestinian state sarkozy's talking about is different from the one olmert envisions. why doesn't israel just pull its ass out of the west bank completely...settlements and all...and help this peace process along. its peace negotiations over the past 20-30 years or so have never been concrete; instead it wants to negotiate possibilities to further negotiate...even to date...it doessn't want a settlement out of the upcoming summit...it just wants to negotiate an agreement to negotiate! do we say "typical israeli tactic"? yup! then what? "oh look at us...we're bending over backwards!" then what? oh my! you know something will come up! something created by israel or not (israel creates it if it doesn't on its own). then what? a little more squeeze retaliation perhaps anything really that'll justfy rekindling an opposing stance then take a little more land then what? it just starts all over again with israel "bending over backwards" and it starts again... only each time it does... the palestinians have less and less land!

TO YOU! and you don't count.

A one-trick pony, by the look...... AZ: "But the Palestinians have their own part of the land. In fact they have 76% of that land" The Palestinians who claim a RoR were not resident east of the Jordan River when the circumstances that triggered their legal right to return took place, Akram. Your "argument" amounts to this: 1) The people who were made refugees in '47-'49 were citizens of Mandate Palestine 2) The majority of people in Transjordan happened to share the same ethnicity as those who were ejected. 3) Therefore, I can deny that the people who were ejected in '47-'49 were citizens of Mandate Palestine by claiming that they "should" be regarded as "Jordanians", even though they were not "Jordanians" when they were ejected. 4) Therefore this is Jordan's problem, not Israel's. So sorry, Akram, but that is one Real Bad Argument.

Well stated. What you said was more then needed!

By all indications they have had enough.

Now once again Jews lived in Palestine for millenia long before the Arab invaders. Jews brought land from absentee Arab landlords who wre only too happy to rip them off,of course the tennants had to move.What happens if you buy a property today? 70% of the Mandate land was vested in the Crown who gave 80% of that to the Arabs. The Arabs declared war and try to steal it all,they lost and then moved to terror. You really are throwing the kitchen sink in desperation involving Arab revenge killing of Arabs by Arabs in this. Wingate TAUGHT Israelis commando tactics there were No mercenaries it was just him. The Arabs had SS Nazis and Sir John Glubb and his British officers fighting for them. They still lost!Whats the matter how many hundred times did they need to outnumber to win?

participation in all aspects of a country's institutions as a threat! A threat from what? Be specific. What does Jewish influence mean? Be specific and why do you believe it is a threat. Or is "Jewish Influence" something you toss around with some sinister implications as to what it means but not knowing what? Is Jewish influence in the sciences, medecine and the arts also a threat and bad? or is that OK? Last and not least, are you a European imbecile like the many before you? Ask yourself some of the questions I asked of you and see if you can come up with an answer. One more item. You said Moslems have more in common with Christians than Christians and Jews. Better not tell that to Moslems who rightfully believe that you are not monotheistic. Rememebr the trinity? Jews and moslem hold monotheism as sacrosanct and repeat that in their daily prayer. Which leads me to another questions you should ask yourself: Are you occupying too much space in this wonderful world?

At last a French President with backbone. Under President Sarkozy the failed policies of the past are being discarded, but the losers on the radical appeasing French Left will attempt to create and trigger labour disruptions, which is always the case with that lot. Mr. Sarkozy needs to remain firm concerning his domestic economic election promises, and properly govern the nation back to an era of normalcy. President Sarkozy has already proven he fully fathoms the various threats poised by the likes of terrorist exporting Iran, and has clearly indicated his willingness of having France join in combating the international threat of radicalised Islamists.

JN: "Even today, there are about 220,000 Palestinians living in Israeli-annexed East Jerusalem who have the right to apply for Israeli citizenship, but they have consistently refused to do so." That is post-67. Israel can NOT claim sovereignty over that territory (that claim is illegal) and so it is right and proper that THOSE people reject THAT offer of citizenship; for them to accept would mean tacit acceptance of an illegal Israeli policy. JN: "A large percentage (33% ?) of Palestinian refugees who went to Jordan and the West Bank accepted Jordanian citizenship and thus lost their right to apply for Israeli citizenship and their refugee status (but UNRWA ignores that)." Jordan illegally annexed the WB 49-67; any jordanian citizenship FORCED upon the Pals via that annexation was equally as illegal. UNRWA definitions deal with the supply of aid, and lends no additional legal status to those people; their legal status is contingent upon Res 194, not on any UNRWA policy.

1) The right to return is an important topic of course. What I find demagogic is to say it to Olmert, which is not necessary. It would be wiser to say it to Abbas. 2) African immigrants birthrate is not a "politically incorrect" data, it is only stupid. It is NOT a serious element of European politics. They make 2-3% of the EU population. Islamophobia is to me a delirious thing, comparable to antisemitism in the past. Those who use or share this delirious thing have a very low IQ (uneducated people) or are cynical politicians like Le Pen and Blocher. Period

Where is the religion of ALL Hilers CONFIRMED ancestors reliably reecorded.? Why does Sarkozy go to Church rather than Synagogue? Do you record the religion of ALL politicians who criticise Moslems or only some?

JN: "However, the entitlement to accept citizenship in the state which suceeded the Mandate cannot be forced." Under the customary international laws of state succession is it AUTOMATIC; if Israel was the successor state to the Mandate in THOSE areas (and it was) then Israeli nationality is automatically confered on the people who were living in THOSE areas. The fact that the Jews ejected them from THOSE areas (or made them so fearful that they fled) does NOT affect that obligation i.e. when there is state succession then the PEOPLE go with the LAND, and if Israel gained sovereignty over the land then she also gained sovereignty over the people of that land, and if she wants to shirk that obligation (and she does) then she has to pay up.

JN: "The state of being stateless or a citizen of a state would have no bearing on the right to claim compensation for the loss of property due to war provided that the claimant can prove that he/she actually did own property and that it is was confiscated without compensation." And I accepted that is true in my previous post, Jeff; the obligation to allow THESE refugees to exercise THEIR right to Israeli citizenship is an ADDITIONAL entitlement; one that the Jewish refugees from arab countries did not - and do not - have. This argument of yours is, therefore, no argument at all.

...a few more of my friends have joined the Indonesian boycott... What a stubborn girl you are Lynn. I like that. Are you still single?.

oh poor tad reveals his stupidity for all in the glaring light. We here the definitive "CASE CLOSED" judgement by a guy who just doesn't get it. It's funy that you supply a link with evidence that runs exactly COUNTER to your claim, yet you continue on with it relishing your claim like a pig in shit. Idiot that you are you don't know that in order to be Jewish, one has to have a Jewish Mother. Israel's Law of return is a different matter and uses different criteria. Learn a little and try to make less of a fool of yourself.

Howdy Truths; I do not deny that there were atrocities commited by both sides during the Israeli War of Independence. It is a matter of how many people where involved in those war crimes as opposed to how many who voluntarily fled the fighting in one direction or the other. As you undoubtedly recall, it was the Arab leadership which made repeated calls for the Palestinian Arabs to temporarily leave until after the Arab armies of Egypt, Jordan, Syria, Lebanon, Iraq, and the Palestinian irregulars had defeated the fledgling State of Israel with the promise that they would be able to return within a week or two whereas it was Israel who appealed to the Arab population to stay put and remain calm. The cases that you cite couldn't possibly amount to more than 10-20,000 people out of a total of about 700,000 Palestinian Arabs who left voluntarily for whatever reason.

Who was clinton, in your reference?

Perhaps your horizon is too short. The Celtic culture was widespread throughout the entire European continent. The Mongols were surely the masters of an area more vast than any other medieval group, and they made a habit of depopulating cities they conquered. As for the Indans in NA, there were caucasians there at least 1500 years before the asiatic natives arrived, but were pushed and 'harvested' by the cannibalistic groups (not all but many) of newcomers. Conveniently ignored by many.

I'm sure you meant your list to overwhelm your readers, but I had to laugh at you. I read some of your references and am very happy and glad that they occurred, or are present in our life.

Howdy European; I'm not a member of any institutionized religion, but I do know that God is. (The word "God" is spelled as "G-d" by Orthodox Jews because there is a prohibition in Judaism for writing His name out in full unless it is done in a permanently sanctified place.) The quotes from Jesus that you used have to do with spiritual enlightenment and have little to do with physical, material wealth per se except that the carrying of a lot of baggage is not helpful if one wishes to know God. Faith in God one can find anywhere, but knowledge of God?--Ooh, that's hard to do unless you experience an ego death. I like the Sufis and the Southern School of Cha'an Buddhism because they have a sense of humor. "Spare me the religion without humor and the philosophy without tears"--Anatole France

Let's keep up the good work !

Don't make me laugh. The only ones dropping bombs on children are your friends Hamas in Gaza and an open air prison? Consider that Israel is enclosed by 22 1/2 hostile Arab states whos people continue to kill Jews by every means at their disposal. So who are the prisoners "Truth"? It's a matter of perspective. The Gazans have created a prison with their own actions which incluse targeting Israeli civilians every day, especially kindergartens. Your truth is nothing but twisted reality and lies.

Truth 'Ethnic cleansing" is the resut of the shortage of land. How you can build two States living in Peace when 76% of that land was already taken by the Arabs to creat Transjordan?. And now on the 24% of that land is to be divided again and the Arabs will again have for the second time another share of what is left of that historic land ?! How you can creat a solution from this madness? On the top of that there is the demand to bring back refugees ! Isn't clear that there is another purpose in the mind of those who are making all these demands ? It can't be that there is Peace in their mind .. You work it out for your mind..

Hmm. We gonna soon see right of return in India and Pakistan -- and eastern Europe? The hypocrite is revealed. As for Sarkozy -- another indication someone Upstairs looks out for the Jews. Otherwise we'd still have the Chirac-ean mindset of distaste for Israel at Elyssee.

Howdy Johnboy; ...remain stateless persons in spite of the Convention Relating to the Status of Refugees (1951 + Protocol 1967), Art. 34, which requires the host country to "facilitate" the naturalization of refugees. In any case, the descendants of the original group of refugees who were born outside of Israel are the sole responsibility of the country in which they were born and not Israel's. A 1:1 reciprocity for compensation claims of both Jewish and Palestinian refugees is the only way that a fair solution can be reached. Otherwise, you can forget about monetary compensation for both groups which is what I recommend because the administrative and legal costs would exceed the amounts involved and both groups have appoximately equal claims. It's better to just call it even and move on.

You say it is demagogy in face of the obviousness of it. But it is on that topic that the peace process collapsed. I advise to read Ross's book or Clinton's comments. Ross was the sepcial envoy to the middle east, and an essential part of the negociations between Barak and Arafat in 2000.

Birth rates of african immigrants are certainly a factor, which is politically incorrect to mention. true also that all the governement incentives have a lot to do with the french european birth rate exception.

Johnboy But the Palestinians have their own part of the land. In fact they have 76% of that land. Transjordan was NOT created from thin air ?! Isn't that the root of the demographic problem? No one can have the cake and eat it ? Isn't that what the Palestinians are asking ? Isn't that what will complicate the problems that Israel has nothing to do with it ? Those who realy wants Peace they must think why Peace is so long missed ? All the Palestinians/Israeli problems are there in History. Honest people,people of Peace must search history and not keep making demands that either foolish or for the sole purpose of making a business out of this situation. Two States in the land left after being divided in 1922 will never make two states that can live in Peace. Isn't that the Big Reality ? A question needs an honest answer. Who don't dare to speak that truth is the one who is lying!

You are right to put 4 interrogation marks as such a right just does not exist and is even less fundamental. Would you consider having the germans going back to poland where the original fatherland, Prussia, lies. How about the french in Algeria and the idian nations to the land of their ancestors in Ohio and elsewhere in the US?

Howdy Johnboy; The state of being stateless or a citizen of a state would have no bearing on the right to claim compensation for the loss of property due to war provided that the claimant can prove that he/she actually did own property and that it is was confiscated without compensation. However, the entitlement to accept citizenship in the state which suceeded the Mandate cannot be forced. Indeed, the Palestinian refugees refused Israeli citizenship. Even today, there are about 220,000 Palestinians living in Israeli-annexed East Jerusalem who have the right to apply for Israeli citizenship, but they have consistently refused to do so. A large percentage (33% ?) of Palestinian refugees who went to Jordan and the West Bank accepted Jordanian citizenship and thus lost their right to apply for Israeli citizenship and their refugee status (but UNRWA ignores that). The ~67% of the Palestinian refugees who fled to other areas such as the Gaza Strip, Egypt, Lebanon, Syria, and Iraq remain

Nice to read you again. You are perfectly right. This governement has shown its incompetence long enough. Sharon falling sick at this time is certainly a very bad thing for Israel. One consolation though, Peretz is no longer defense minister.

Come on, they want everyone to be Muslim in the same way and for the same reason that Christians want everyone to be Christian, where they actually historically killed millions of native americans and others who would not convert. Jews are very clannish and tribal, to have a lot of them in ones country creates a subclass who hoards its wealth and becomes almost parasitic. This is true for most tribal people, which is really a very primitive way of bing and thinking.

I have tried to make the same point over and over. In the mind of anti-semites any drop of jewish blood makes someone jewish and therefore suspect. As a french jew it is a lesson I have learned from WWII. So many (Including Bergson, a famous philosopher) went with their baptism certificate to prove that they were not jewish. It did not save them from deportation.

9. The following shows Danite the Apologist in all of his bizarre need to distort and explain unpleasant facts away, even when explanation is not needed. If the reader is ticklish, better get yourself a few tissues now; you are about to platz. I have to thank a poster who referred to this gem which was not addressed to me. Here it is : "Please note jesus was crucified, the penalty for political crimes and was crucified with two nationalist brigands ( lestai), and had "King of the Jews" over his forehead, all of which makes it very clear he was killed over politics.The gospel writters seeking legitimacy in rome had to wipe away any roman material, as much as possibel to prove that they were not allied with the anti roman zealots.The whole story is rife with politics." Here Danite is attempting to clear the Jews completely of Jesus` death, even when the Church has done it already in Vatican II, clearing the Jews of NATIONAL guilt. Of course, the Jewish leadership of the time was not cleared, but why is this a problem? Danite uses 2 devices: 1. Present Jesus` death as a political crime against Rome; 2. Accuse the Gospels of lying about the Jewish involvement. (cont.)

To repeat: To be Jewish, one must "follow" the religion known as Judeaism. Also, it is required that said "follower" must BELIEVE in god. Therefore, the vast majority of Zionists are NOT Jewish. Also, the majority of people who "claim" to be Jews while NOT believing in their god, are NOT Jewish. SO, ALL the Laws and Traditions etc do NOT change this FACT. The SAME applies to ALL other religions. I think that all of the above should actually get a grip on that which is REAL and that which they want to BELIEVE is real. WANTING something to be so, will NEVER make it so. ANSWER to the "problem"? PRACTICE your religion and abide by the teachings of your god, in particular towards your fellow-man!

People are what they think they are; how they comport themselves; how they worship. Everythjing else is fantastic superstition like halahahahaha.

You begin by clothing an abject lie as axiomatic truth. The Arabs were expelled from their villages through massacres - Dei Yesin, Tantura, Lyddah et al - (Israel's own Israel Shahak and Benny Morris dave more details). Israel has continued the process of ethnic cleansing through Qibya, Kafr Yunus, Sbara, Shatila, Jenin, and continued expansion of settleemnts in the West Bank, the arid Gaza is an ope prison where Israel continues to shell and drop bombs on apartments and children.

You and others denying Sarkozy is Jewish are nuts---you change your criteria with the wind. Last week, you could have a Jewish grandfather, be Jewish and come to Israel. Now you say his mom wasn't Jewish---his biography does not indicate that and he lost members of his family during the war. He acknowledged that he was Jewish. I guess he doesn't qualify as he is not a skinhead. You guys are the most vacillating folks I know and can't make up your mind who is Jewish. Half of those over there claim to be but are not. He will be watched by the world who despite your denials see him as a Jew and his actions right off prove the point. Case closed.

And where did Theodor Herzl and his machinations with Von Phelve, the German Kaiser, The Turkish sultan and British imperialism come from. Not to mention the Balfour Declaration in 1917, the Rothschild settlements and the expulsion of Arab farmers and workers, Orde Charles Wingate's mercenaries, the Hagannah, Irgun and Lehi and the smuggling of Jewish settlers against the wishes of the Palestinians, the bombings in Arab market places, King David,Deri Yesin, Tantura, Lyddah, Qibya, Kafr Yunus, Sabra, Shatila, Jenin and the present slow genocide in Gaxa and expansion in the West Bank. A racist coloniser like Vladimir Jabotinsky is much more forthright and honest than you are.

And Jeruslem ? What will be left of Judaism if Jeruslem is not Jewish and not the eternal Capital of the Jewish State ? What that will make of all our prayers ? Our prayers will be just lies and our faith will end up an empty nonsense. Isn't that what these demands of the Palesninians on Israel meant to be? The destruction of the Jewish religion and its religious Home.. Did we came from the four corners of the world to be buried here ? Isn't that what all this hate that has been following us through out the ages wants to do to us indeed through out the ages ? Yes indeed.. we have demographic problem. What created this problem ? Isn't because the land was already divided ? 76% of the land was already given to the Arab/Palestinians under the name of Transjordan. Isn't that what has created this demographic problem ? Are we all so cowards and NOT speak the truth ? In the name of G-d time to stand up and be counted. Thank you Sarkozy for waking up the dead.

"At least here in Europe it looks like the big 5 (UK, Germany, France, Italy and Spain) are quite serious to make Annapolis to a success." - Dino Hello Dino, You have to look at the source, Dino. Olmert is in no position to make concessions in Annapolis or he loses his coalition. The Europeans can stand on their heads but this will not change. Bush does not apply pressure that the coalition partners can see, so there will be no change. P.S. I think Bush is more interested in Iran that in our conflict. Had Bush wanted an achievement, peace between Israel and Syria would have been easy. But you are dealing with a blind and stupid ideologue.

One wonder, this Israeli Goverments of Kadima if they are a bunch of cowards or enemy agents? A forgein head of state understand the problems of Israel and have the courage to speak his mind about the right solution: "Pakestinian refugees should be resettled in a Palestinian State,not in Israel French President Sarkozy told Prime Minster Olmert" Ed. Thank you President Sarkozy. Shame to Olmert & Co. When..when in G-ds name Israel will have a bold and truly Israeli Government ? When..when in G-d's name Israel will speak the language of the people and not waste time talking to those have one aim in their mind a soul; the destruction of the Jewish State simply because it is Jewish. Do we need to be all of us Muslems to be accepted in our State ? Can't this Government see that all the demands thrown on Israel are nothing but poison its only purpose to destroy Israel if not by the return of the refugees then by building a State inside Israel. pt-2

Howdy Lakshmi; "I think the Palestinians would like to have have their lands and homes back,don`t you?" Unfortunately, most of the Palestinian Arabs who for the most part voluntarily fled the fighting in 1948 at the urging of their own leaders did not own any land, buildings, businesses, or bank accounts since they were either serfs, tenent farmers, migrant workers, or renters who were living from hand to mouth. Most of the Palestinian Arabs who did own property did not leave, are still there, still own their property, and hold Israeli citizenship (they are called "Israeli Arabs" and there about 1.4 million of them). There may be a few Palestinian refugees who have a valid claim for compensation for property lost during the war, there aren't very many of them and they certainly have no right to return to or to reclaim the same piece of dirt upon which they once resided (and neither do the Jews who were kicked out various Arab countries).

The French people will regret their election of Nicholas Sarkozy... Why? Tipical Arab common threat for not `dancing` for them? Otherwise anyone may regret anythig in the future. The better question would have been why was he elected. Remember the cartoons, remeber the riots, the radical Islam world wide open threat & behavior? As I have said before, the Europe will slowly wake up from the apathy created by lull of Cold War desapearance, & one by one will realize they need different kinds of leaders to withtand the radical Islam `invasion`. Remember, the Saudi finances spreading hate, lies & Israeli `opression` propaganda mostly effected world`s liberal left(aka professorships & similar)& socialist(aka unions) layers. It had definately never & will never completely fell the government structures nor the common Euro street. Yes, they (the street) historically & may still not like Jews much, but it pales in comparison to what they can see or sense where the real danger is coming from.

Jeff is correct that all the refugees will be settled in a "future Palestine", but incorrect to claim that their entitlements are no more than those of Jews who fled Arab countries. Sorry Jeff, but the issue of MONETARY COMPENSATION FOR PROPERTY LOSS is not the same as A RIGHT TO RETURN TO THE LAND THEY FLED. Jews fled from Arab countries. They left their property behind. They took up Israeli citizenship. They are entitled to monetary compensation, but not to return; they gave up the latter right when they assumed Israeli nationality. Arabs fled from their land inside ex-Mandate Palestine. They left their property behind. They became, and remain, stateless. They are entitled to a) monetary compenstation for property loss b) citizenship of the state that suceeded the Mandate in the land they inhabited. Their statelessness means they retained both entitlements - unlike the Jewish refugees - and so there is NOT a 1:1 reciprocity in the claims of the two groups.

You read the article but didnt understand it! Because you dont know enough!!! Put it this way, if Olmert, Sharon, Cohen, Levy or an other Jew was married to a non-Jewish wife, their children would NOT be Jewish no matter how Jewish the father is. There is no such thing as being HALF-JEWISH (although many people are unaware of this). Its the same as a woman cant be half-pregnant!

Howdy Tosefta; The fact is that your advice to Chairman Abbas to solicit the Europeans to put "pressure" on Israel to capitulate to the demands of the Arab Ultimatum has turned out to be a major political miscalculation on your part. Pres. Sarkozy has scuttled the "right of return" and PM Brown is backing increased sanctions on Iran. It seems to me that the Europeans are getting sick and tired of radical Islamists making unreasonable demands, blowing up people, and trying to subvert and replace the laws of their countries with Sharia law. The Europeans might be sympathetic with the Palestinians' desire for a state, but they aren't going to be if that entails sacrificing Israel's security. Why don't you take your brilliant, political, analytical expertise and become a political advisor to Sen. Hillary Clinton? With your advice she would be bound to lose.

Sarkozy's mother is not Jewish period. Sarkozy himself is not Jewish period. You obviously have little or no knowledge of Jewish halachtic law. A person can only be Jewish if their MOTHER is JEWISH. Sarkozy's grandfather was Jewish but he converted to Catholicism and married a Catholic!!! Therefore, Sarkozy's mother IS NOT JEWISH BECAUSE HER MOTHER WASNT JEWISH - Therefore, Sarkozy himself IS NOT JEWISH. Is that not too difficult to understand???

First things first, i never capitalize the word god, no reason to, some people here are even as children that they are even afraid to spell it out and yet spew hate all day. True that high birth rates do lead to poverty but under the christian religion, with is what the west is..and I quote Jesus "blessed are the poor, for they shall inherit the earth" .."it is easier for the a camel to go through the eye of a needle than a rich man to enter the gates of heaven" and even if we look at this situation from a darwinian evolutionary scope the Muslims are also the winners, as high birth rates increase their chances to outlive and survive than a waning population. So this in a way turns darwin on its head, because your 'advanced' societies end up aging and dying out, while the earth and the nations are left by to the rest, the poor, the humble, those who Christians and Jesus valued the most. Ay, they do inherite the earth.

First things first, i never capitalize the word god, no reason to, some people here are even as children that they are even afraid to spell it out and yet spew hate all day. True that high birth rates do lead to poverty but under the christian religion, with is what the west is..and I quote Jesus "blessed are the poor, for they shall inherit the earth" .."it is easier for the a camel to go through the eye of a needle than a rich man to enter the gates of heaven" and even if we look at this situation from a darwinian evolutionary scope the Muslims are also the winners, as high birth rates increase their chances to outlive and survive than a waning population. So this in a way turns darwin on its head, because your 'advanced' societies end up aging and dying out, while the earth and the nations are left by to the rest, the poor, the humble, those who Christians and Jesus valued the most. Ay, they do inherite the earth.

his GMother and Mother are born Catholic French. He probably got couple of genes ... :)

Why such a outburst of bad feelings by so many people in this forum about a news article and an open and rare public display of French goodwill paralleling official Israeli positions? Aren't Sarkozy's views commendable? Are French policies towards Israel to be taken for granted and accepted with cynicism? Why do people attack each other on irrelevant topics not even remotely dealing with issues at hand? Should anyone take letters on the internet seriously?

The riots in Paris gave the French a taste of what radical Islam has to offer in France and all over the world. That's why Sarkozy won the election and that's why he knows that the "right of return" of 3 generations of Arabs to Israel spell its destruction. There is no mystery here only cold hard facts. If the Palestinians are to have a state it will be next to Israel and not instead of it. Hamas and their ilk will go the way of other totalitarian regimes sooner or later and Sarkozy will help that happen. It's about time France came to understand that its own fate is tied to Israels just as all deomcracies and their fates are as well. Sarkozy is doing what the US and many other countries are doing and that is understanding who the enemy is what its goal is.

#29 is in a fit,because Israel has to compete for its survival against the oil industry and their oligarchies support of those who would smother the Jewish state.Sure, Israel is now in ND's view "one of the most powerful nations in the world," but questions the fear the Israelis have regarding their proposed extermination by Iran.ND is certain that the Jewish nation is playing the victim game.ND's cynicism is boundless and is typical of the depth of hatred that the Jewish state faces from the Arab world and some in our own country.This piling on of mindless malevolence produces a dunghill,whose aroma is easily wafted by the winds of prejudice,producing unreconstructed malice which would ultimately lead to the destruction of the Jewish state and people.ND never questions the reasons for Israel having to be "powerful" in a nasty neighborhood,because ND is an advocate of these reprehensible views.

Howdy William; At least the French managed to recognize that the so-called "right of return" for refugees displaced by war doesn't exist in international law and that it is not a "right" at all unless granted by the country of origin. "No one should be involved in Israeli and Palestinian negotiations except the 2 parties." Then tell the Quartet and the Arab League to stop meddling in matters which do not concern them. "The French like everything else in history would make things worse." Well, they did help us during the Revolutionary War, introduced the metric system, invented the guillotine, and make excellent wines and perfumes. "I`d rather see our money that we send to Israel without repayment kept in the U.S..." There is no economic aid to Israel any longer. Of the current $2.4 billion/yr. in military aid to Israel, about 75% must be spent in the U.S. which benefits our defense industry, and of the remainder, Israel repays us with intelligence and technological

the two. Jew do not care if you are not Jewish. But Muslems duty, according to Quoran is to Muslemize the world.And this is a big differance. As my muslim friend tels me, Tomy your grandkids going to be Muslems, and nothing you can do about.

It's time for France to take part in the fight against Muslim extremists. Bravo Shrkozy Bravo.

They are happy chappies. Some men see a lot of humor in war - a great macho, ego building experience! What better way to bring out their toys and show them off! Cherio.

You said:" All Palestinian refugees and their descendants can settle in the futuristic Islamic Republic of Palestine (after its borders have been determined first of course) provided that the PA is willing to absorb approximately 4 million, diaspora, UNRWA welfare junkies. " According to the UNRWA, some Palestinians refugees are Christian. Much of the Galilee was once Christian. They are now refugees. Lebanon did offer all its Palestinian Christian population citizenship. But the last records I saw, there were Christians left. And, lastly the Palestinians in the Diaspora (outside of the camps) have done quite well for themselves. There are a good number of Palestinian American doctors, lawyers, engineers, teachers, and professors.

"...giving ordinary non-terrorist Palestinian families anything resembling a normal life." Same goes for terror suffering Israeli families. Over ten percent of Israel's population suffer from post traumatic stress disorder, three times the number in America. Waiting for you to suggest assurances that Palestinian terror against Jews finally stops, after nearly a century of being encouraged by their leaders.

mehmet is dana and hannah , her only intention here is to bothr jews with her rabid and frothing trash talk.Regards

And you are wasting your time bashing Israel while you could use it better to get rid of the Islamists in your own country. And BTW don't forget that your leaders by not allowing US troops to pass through Turkey in 2003 (1 Mart Tezkeresi) they lost the opportunity to have a saying in north Iraq and alianeted their important ally USA. I hope that Turkey can at least continue to keep Israel as an ally which in the coming days might come in handy.

OK Lakshmi we give up, We are sorry to have been invited to this land through history by Rollers of the land! We are sorry to have devastated this land by planting trees, drying swamps, getting a water system to the land, and bringing doctors to save Arab lives! We are sorry we bought land from the Turks, Effendis, and from Arab workers before the state was founded! We are sorry for winning the independence war in 1948 when clearly we should have lost! We are sorry that we have not lost land when Arab countries provoked war on us in all the wars of Israel! We are sorry for not understanding the Palestinians that have been shooting rockets, exploding themselves in restaurants, and doing allsorts of mischief in Israel and abroad! We are sorry for not understanding that when we Israelis are attacked, that is the time we should supplying the Palestinians more electricity, more water, and more food and lift the siege on the territories! Lakshmi now you can go save India!

OK Lakshmi we give up, We are sorry to have been invited to this land through history by Rollers of the land! We are sorry to have devastated this land by planting trees, drying swamps, getting a water system to the land, and bringing doctors to save Arab lives! We are sorry we bought land from the Turks, Effendis, and from Arab workers before the state was founded! We are sorry for winning the independence war in 1948 when clearly we should have lost! We are sorry that we have not lost land when Arab countries provoked war on us in all the wars of Israel! We are sorry for not understanding the Palestinians that have been shooting rockets, exploding themselves in restaurants, and doing allsorts of mischief in Israel and abroad! We are sorry for not understanding that when we Israelis are attacked, that is the time we should supplying the Palestinians more electricity, more water, and more food and lift the siege on the territories! Lakshmi now you can go save India!

Jeff, I don't believe in a Right of Return. I don't think this is the first time you hear this. As far as your political thoughts, why not share them with somebody who would care to hear them? As for me, just the facts, Sergeant!

that they need Israel to keep in chack Arab/Moslem ambitions to dominate the world, which is clearly stated in quoran. Nuclear ambitions is one of those problems,terror is another, and Israels knowlage,inteligance is technical advancement is very much needed.The same as it was during the cold war against Communists.

Totally irrelevant what Sarkozy says here...

this site,and without being one,no progress is possible.

How did we get all the way to grandfathers? Sarkozy mother is Jewish. Period.

have their lands and homes back,don't you?I'm sure they know how to build schools!

need Sarkozy to know that millions of palis can not sattle in Israel. Nobody in his right mind would imagine this ever hapenning.This talk is good only for Palis BS. But again,they never did anythings else in their life.

Arabs should scratch their hads real hard and decide if they want to get Israel on board BEFORE A-Mad'n'Jad The Lo-o-o-ser gets his departure kick from his mullah bosses, BECAUSE history used to turn around AND Iran is a natural Israel's ally especially IF Arabs continue to pull chestnut out of the fire for their "poor" Palestinian "brothers".

IDF killed 6 kids a week on separate occasions. When IDF kills Jihad or Hamas man it is OK, but it killed so many civilians despite the fact that IDF always claim to be capable of executing operations with surgical precision. So our PKK problem is entirely different.

I sent a response to Fox by mistake. Hitler's unmarried mother's name was Maria Schicklgruber and Hitler was his stepdad's name. Hitler and his real father were illegitimate by birth; he took his name from his stepfather named Heidler, later changed to Hitler. The book called "Psychopathic God" may answer some questions. Hitler used his home town as an artillery range destroying all evidence of his birth and made it illegal for German women to work in Jewish households. Jews can deny he was of them and that is understandable, but it does not change the circumstances of his birth or who he was. These facts are not at all hidden & are available on encylopedic medians and has been extensively gone over on US television, usually on the History Channel. His mom married her cousin after the fact; sound familiar?

we are independent only on paper. We are a backward muslim society, we do not have high-level scientists and innovative engineers who would help us to design navigation systems to fly our f16s independently from the american gps satellites. We are ran by islamists and a handful company bosses who worship money and power and who would not give a shit if people go hungry on the streets. We do not have the power, not even the political power to chase the pkk terrorists. All this because of islamists and capitalists. Americans support PKK for OIL. This is BLOOD for OIL. Israel killed 1000 Lebanese for 2 kidnapped soldiers. PKK killed 24 of my people in a week and our hands are tied, is this independence Fox ?

They were against the Americans in the War in Iraq after all. They play a double game, hugging Abbas, then Olmert. No one should be involved in Israeli and Palestinian negotiations except the 2 parties. The French like everything else in history would make things worse. The U.S. should also leave the situation alone. I'd rather see our money that we send to Israel without repayment kept in the U.S to take care of our domestic institutions, or combat poverty, assist law enforcment, etc. Israel's a big boy. I'm tired of my tax money supporting their failed project.

labarse the nowhere man is a comic in his own lifetime ! is your real name boris ?

but I would have felt perfectly ok if I were a donme, why should there be problem ? I am against racism, I am against people like Bibi, Mofaz or Sharon the butcher of Sabra. David Israel is sentimental and nasty enough to call me anti-semite for that, sad really but let be it.

"1948" Jews were run out of Arab lands, you say, and coincidentally that was about the same time that Europeans claiming to be Jews landed in "Israel" killing Arabs in the process. It may be illegal to meet with an "Israeli", but "Israelis" are not Jews, and Jews still live in Arab countries and are accepted because they do not steal Arab land, spread lies, cause trouble all while killing the Arabs. Jews and Arabs have lived together a long time and many still live in Iran. Those who are not welcome in Arab lands are called "Israelis", the troublemaking Europeans formerly converted to Judaism from Khazars and not following the Torah, but instead coming up with the Talmud as a substitute. Not everybody in the world sucks up the misinformation and lies put out by Zionists. Jews practicing Judaism are respected by all religions; Zionists are respected by none but the ignorant unable to discern the difference.

you are sometimes right, rarely but it does happen. Now, I agree with you that Hamas, Hizballah, Islamic Jihad, PKK are all terrorist organizations. But US openly supports PKK. Tayyip supported Hamas on spiritual level (which is also disgusting), US supports PKK on the material level. Israel gave logistic support to PKK (or its predecessor)in ealy eighties. So how do you feel David ? If you have the guts speak up against americans for supporting a terror organization and then come and lecture me. I know Israel and US means home to you, and Turkey ? Kümes ??

A miracle because there was an attempt to eradicate those people and that instead of being weakend those who survived were allowed to live in a new state of their own in which no state any longer would harm them. This was the miracle of life and surviving. But the French President's words are over too strong in that respect that the other part of the people living there suffered and is still suffering. That is the paradox of a country called Israël.

Must be the same ambasador that gave the Muslims more freedom to bash and bomb UK.

"Christianity to adapt to technology and science" In fact, the Catholic Church promoted it, from the creation of the modern university system (during what is commonly referred to the dark ages) to the direct funding of scientific research. A lot of the technological and scientific developments were achieved and studies by Catholic monks who preserved ancient esoteric books from the greeks and romans, much of what our societies are now based on (western). " Islam however believes that the Quran is the exact words of Allah " Many Protestants, especially in the US believe that the bible is the exact words of god, the Pope doesn't even say this, but many Protestants believe this, hence, 3 of the republican candidates for President acknowledged that they do not believe in evolution but believe that the planet is 5,000 years old, the US president still even question global warming, and also believes in the literal interpretation of the bible.

Hitler's mother was a housekeeper working for the Rothschild family and became impregnated by one of them. Her name was Sch---berg (sp?). As the story goes, a dude named "Hitler" was paid money for the name exchange. Hitler's extensive education was vast for a housekeeper's son and was reportedly provided for by the family. As for Sarkozy, what does whether he goes to Mass or not have to do with his being Jewish? Half the Zionists over there don't go to Synagogue or believe the hogwash they send to Evangelicals. If Sarkozy's mother was Jewish as is documented, then he is Jewish, and his announcement that no Palestinians will return and coziness with the pariah state of Israel is the proof in the pudding. Make up your mind, are Jews a race or religion. If they are a religion, most of the folks in Israel don't count as Jews. I will get the spelling on Hitler's mother's name as I can't remember but it ended with "berg" or such and he destroyed his birth records at Town Hall.

Muslims in Europe today show a marked difference to Jews in Europe in the past. Jews integrated into European society. Muslims today do not. Jews accounted for most of the lawyers in Germany in 1930, many of the doctors, a good part of the university educators and students. Of course they also owned shops. They did not demand that the torah become the law of predominantly Jewish neighborhoods as Muslims demand sharia law in the Netherlands, Sweden and Norway. There did not exist a fringe Jewish group advocating the overthrow of the govt for a 'Jewish' nation as Muslim radicals in Europe do. They did not gang rape Jewish girls who dated non-Jews as Arabs in France do to Arab girls. They did not threaten Jewish women to cover themselves or face violence as Arabs in France do. They did not have terror cells or support foreign terror cells as some Arabs in Europe do today. They did not fill the jails in Sweden and Australia as rapists of Swedish or Australian girls as Arabs do today.

Jean Paul it is not the numbers that count but the will.The Muslisms are trying to intimidate you into submission with their usual scare tactics.Thank G-d the French had the sense to vote Sarkozy, he will not only save france from its "ravisseurs" but will bring back the honour and good name of france which suffered so much under the sleazy weasel chirac.

He may have though couple of genes which can make difference.

You ask why is the ultra right wing SVP pro israel.So now somehow israel is to be tarred with the actions of the swiss voters.is that supposed to say something about Israel???? Do you see how distorted everything becomes for you??

She is also Hannah.Regards

It's a nice link you provide tad and if you read it through you will see that he is NOT Jewish. His mother, Andree was Christian and as you doubtless know the mother carries the religion in Judaism....so FOX was 100% correct is stating that Sarkozy is NOT Jewish.

I dont knwo if you read toseftas ludicrous post to you last night and my answer , but I would like to suggest that you read "The Historical Jesus" by Crossan, he is the father of the "historical jesus movement" he is the world leading scholar on the subject and will show tosefta to be what he is, a laughing stock.Regards

was born out of Judaism, so what's the problem. The earliest Christians were the Jews so that the two are invisibly bonded and if Sarkozy has a Jewish Grandfather but says he is Catholic, then he is a Catholic/Jew. No harm done. But he certainly aint Muslim, that's for sure.

Hope you are well.

Hi Jonathan, You can trust: I am an historian and I can assure you that the comparison of the Munich conference between Hitler and the Western Allies (1938) with the Iranian crisis of today is nonsense. Il will NOT be made by some future "historians". Why shouldn't Germany align with international sanctions, once they have been decided by the UN Security Council? Germany is not a member of this committee, as you know. China is! So why don't you go and discuss about "historic issues" in Chinese newspaper blogs?

Indeed, the Romans feared all those foreign cults coming into Rome and that were attracting supporters amoungst the aristocracy and they feared that "good old roman values" were going down the drain.The Romans inherited alot from the greeks who thought the jews were anti religious for having an unseen god, in fact they thought the jews were deranged misanthropes for "mocking" religion in that way.They also thought the jews decadent as they legislated one day in seven as a day of rest,However Roman imperial policy was careful to protect the "ancestral rights of jews" from challenges by the greeks.Regards

No, You don`t consider jews to have any rights at all, so it`s no wonder You`re telling Albert # 221, that jewish rights as refugees from arab dictatorships & palestinian claims after their VOLUNTARY departure from the jewish national home in the former british mandate aren`t "in the least way related" !

1) Of course pieds-noirs are different from Palestinians but in my view the "right to return" thing is something sentimental and sterile that is comparable to similar claims by German vertriebenen from Silesia etc I think Palestinian government should focus on really important things like Cisjordan and fighting against settlements and israali wall etc 2) Sarkozy is French. France IS his country, I don't like him at all, I never voted him but I definitely oppose that type of argument, I find it antisemitic and xenophobic.

I have gotten your point clearly and much to your dismay I have pointed out the lie which you ignore in your zeal to show guilt by association. Switzerland trades with Israel and has been for a while, arms deals exist NOW and have existed for a while. Why? because switzerland recognizes that they are great "deals", there is no "morality" involved. Your allegation about the svp supporting trade is deceiptful in that it doesn't include the other parties who share that support. btw are you aware that neutral swiss are one of the highest per capita gun users in the world?? whew, imagine if you folks really had what to be concerned with....doesn't bode well for the Black Sheep now does it.... I have no dilemma here, it is you who has been exposed as fabricator....what a surprise to nobody.

You make a great point. A terrorist is a terrorist no matter what they represent. PKK, Hamas, Al Kaida, Chechen, Basque, IRA, Janjawit or the likes of Baruch Goldstein are terrorists and must be dealt as terrorist by all. Just like Isarel and the USA has the right to fight those terrorists who attack them Turkey also has the same right to fight PKK with all of its might. I would even say that my own country the USA also has a duty to help Turkey achieve its goal against PKK not only because Turkey is an ally but because the international fight with terror is one global fight for all countries. Once we pick and choose which terrorist is bad and which one is good we fall into a very dangerous trap. Oh About Mehmet: I don't know what he thinks but I am sure that even if Israel would find a cure to cancer he would find something to say against Israel even on that subject.

YOU have NO right whatsoever, to rant about a palestinian state, since YOU deny the Druze & Christian arabs the right to a Lebanon of their own, independent & free of any syrian domination, manipulation, terrorism and threats !

This indicates the fundamental issue of Islam today. Christianity was able to study science and when realized that the world was not flat was able to admit it, when realized that the calendar had defects Pope Gregor was able to adjust it and reformation allowed Christianity to adapt to technology and science. Islam however believes that the Quran is the exact words of Allah and can not be argued (although this is not totally true because Islam allows Ictihat which has been abandoned since the Moslems quit Spain). Isn?t it common sense that while orbiting around the world many times in one earth time there is no practical way to face Mecca for an extended time? Isn?t it common sense that while orbiting around earth there will be several sunrise and sunsets in 24 hours? The issue is that old teachings must be adjusted to reflect the realities of modern times. If Allah gave you the power to discover the secrets of the universe he/she expects you to make the necessary changes accordingly which includes re interpreting the parts of the Quran that spreads Jewish hatred.

There is enough credit to go around. :)

Does he attend Synagogue for prayers? Back up your Hitler allegation while you are at it. Do not crawl away

Jeff, I don't believe in a Right of Return. I don't think this is the first time you hear this. As far as your political thoughts, why not share them with somebody who would care to hear them? As for me, just the facts, Sergeant!

You said:" The only things that God`s Will has "blessed" you with is an ignorance of birth control and a condemnation to perpetual and abject poverty." I must tell you that I believe all children are blessings from God. This is a religious belief in many faiths, including some forms of Christianity. That is why the huge debates about Abortion in the USA. I understand your comment on population growth. It does not make children less valuable. Oh, I remember vaguely reading an example study in a Stats class. It showed the "happiest" people in the USA were the Amish. Why? They lives absent of commercial goods, almost like abject poverty! Perhaps, for some, worshipping commercialism, and caring about what this or that starlette is doing, or being arrested for, just is not fulfilling in the way having a true community is for some.

He probably went back from Morocco for a few hours just to meet Olmert and then flied back to Rabat :)

Boy we will begin with a little history. Have you ever been to Europe? If you have then you may have noticed that the towns and cities have quite a few monumental and huge churches. Who built these massive and beautiful structures? who hired and paid the architects? Who paid for the land on which the churches were built? If you answered, the king, the state, the church or a huge landowner with time on his side, then you are correct. Synagogues were not supported by the Czar or the Pope. They purchased their land and did not recieve any gifts to build their shul. thus they had to and have to raise funds, it may sicken you to see money exchanged in a synagogue, but this is not Jesus turning over the tables of money-changers at the temple, but a shul, and nothing prohibits money trading hands in a synagogue. Story, christmas eve, 1987, Catholic church, Toronto. Two born again bikers shoved the collection basket in my face, out of fear I tossed in a few bucks. amen.

Well, who cares about what France says, anyway? If what France says was of any importance, we would know it long ago :) Like what Sarkozy thinks about the "core issues" mattered... Gosh!

Dear Jean-Paul, I agree with most of your comments however regarding the Pieds-noirs it's quite different from the Palestinians case as they are as well the indigeneous people of Israel/Palestine conversely to the Pieds-niors who were just imported people of the French colonies. Let's the adverse parties discussing the case. As for Sarkozy, he's just doing his job and working for his real country which is Israel. We did try to warn the French people that he was going to cheat on them but they didn't listen. War with Iran and pro-Israeli position will bring a huge amount of violence on our country and the only people to blame will be Sarko and co and the people who voted for him. Qui sème le vent récolte la tempête. Best wishes.

Sorry there man, but Sarkozy is Jewish, 100% kosher; Hannah is right. Why are you putting out disinformation. Here is his family tree and it doesn't get more kosher than that. http://www.ajn.com.au/news/news.asp?pgID=3162 No need to disinform or obfuscate. I don't know what Hitler's standards for being Jewish were (he is alleged to have been Jewish himself), but Sarkozy fits the bill.

sorry Mehmet but it is time to stop acting like a child and take some responsibility for yourself and your country's actions. Turkey is not a satellite of the U.S. It is an independent nation and makes it's own policy, that it has to pay attention to what is going on around it, is only part of growing up.' Too easy to blame all your ills on America, weak indeed. Now Mehmet, what do you think Turkey should do with the PKK. Should they attack, or should they continue to absorb the terror attacks. I am interested in your views, especially since you always attack Israel for retalliating against it's attackers. Mehmet btw, is the PKK out to destroy Turkey, or do they just want the historical south eastern chunk that they consider part of their ancient empire. I personally support Turkey taking on those who blow up innocents in their cities, what is your opinion. Awaiting the irony.

why Sarkozy is overplaying his role.... Well, maybe becaus his Grandfather is Jewish... so is David Beckham's .... and so is mine!

-YOU`re on the money !

You will not see Lebanon repeated, not in Lebanon nor in the Arab Territories which is not yet 'Palestine'! please remember. Israel gave them the land Gaza at a great expense to herself to Build! and Palestinians flunked it. What you will see being repeated is the Victory of the Six Day War. Israel is Prepared...

-And what business is this of Yours ? If You`re a Hamas- or Hezbollah rejectionist, then I understand that You`d despise anyone who`s decent to my jewish nation... President Sarkozy is interesting indeed, we havn`t seen backbone like his from any european leader in a loong, long time.

Sir, Indeed, "what idiocy". Palestinians can nicely live in 20 miles form their "prior" places in their own state. What is the problem?

Hi tadchase, be careful, copy-cat is a rather serious crime here in Switzerland. Be glad that you did it on an Israeli website, the Israelis might show a bit more "nonchalance".... You know, the further you get down south.... But don't worry, my buddy Polybios is a very indulgent guy, otherwise he wouldn't survive my daily "preachings".... Anyway,if you didn't see my post from a few days ago, I would still encourage you to keep on reforming the GOP. Truly a noble cause....:) Stay safe over there and STAY OUT OF THE FIRE !!

to Israel has brought eternal war, quoting you.... and not because of Israel, but because of the Arabs' eternal hostility towards the Jewish people, a hostility which has its roots in 'The House of Abraham'. Arabs have never forgotten... it is inborn, this malice, hatred and envy.... and it will never disappear. Therefore Sarkozy is right, each with his own territory as 'Never the Twain shall meet' and there is no reason why it should be so difficult when Arabs have masses of land 99.09% and the Jews only 0.01% on the Meditarranean coastline. Why with their masses of land should there be any controversy about where the 23red Arab State should be. In the Jewish State!!!???

As for paying money for High Holiday chairs in the synagogue, this money goes to charities. I see no difference with the zakat the muslims have to give after Ramadan.

Cause if you are, you should know that the churches are getting emptier and emptier in Europe, whether catholic or protestant, and the mosques fuller and fuller.

17, my congratulations, you are a REAL man !!! (are you a man...??? :) By the way, isn't it ironic that Jonathan S, a right-wing apologist for Israel, brought up the whole thing 2 days ago....??? If I wanted to get in trouble again, I would say now "they really bring it on themselves"..:) Bad, bad Dino.....

For over thirty years now, France was run by men who adhered to a form of nationalism that defined itself largely in opposition to the United States. With the election of Nicholas Sarkozy, France has finally realized that self-definition does not depend on the perception of the other. Just as importantly, France seems to have reclaimed some of its moral vision. France no longer conducts its foreign policy purely on the basis of narcissistic self-interest. France recognizes that morality and self-interest need not collide. By declaring the establishment of Israel a "miracle," Sarkozy has given his foreign policy a luster that it had not had for a very long time. One must hope that France will continue to conduct its foreign policy according to this new vision. Bernard Kouchner, the founder of "medecins sans frontiers," is a wonderful choice as foreign minister.

It was just a matter of time before sarko showed his true identity, the french people will be sorry in the long run as we are in middle america

Sir or Madam, Mr. Sarkozy is not a king, but elected President of France. Probably you mixed it with some Arab countries, where they have either kings or presidents for life or dynasties of presidents which is same as kings. Nicholas Sarkozy is one of the first French Presidents who understands the danger of Islamo fascism, especially in his own back yard. He says publicly what many French people (at least those whom I know) say in private. Also he wants to modernize French economy, which is inefficient and too socialistic and thus not very competitive in the global market. So what's wrong with that?

Is't France's turn now to serve as the European poodle for Bush.

The second device was to imply that the entire involvement of the Jews might be fictional due to "the gospel writters seeking legitimacy in rome had to wipe away any roman material, as much as possibel to prove that they were not allied with the anti roman zealots." Nero already blamed the Christians of setting Rome on fire even before the Temple was destroyed (64 BC). They were already known as a separate group. And at least 3 of the Gospels were written decades after the Destruction of the Temple. Whoever remembered the Zealots of the Great Revolt? One could find better reasons for Christian blaming the Jews (mostly the late John), but the earlier gospels don`t show much of this. As I replied, "The most outrageous thing is that the story in the Gospels is quite intricate, with the priests arresting Jesus, paying Judas, interrogating him etc. These details appear in all the Gospels, written decades apart. You might as well say the whole story is a fake if you remove so many details." The Danite exercise in stupid and unnecessary apologetics is unnecessary, but let us see some comprehension problems. Danite`s reply to me: 1. "Just the mere fact that jesus had above his head a sign that read "jesus of nazareth King of the Jews" should be clear to anybody but a total dunce that the romans were saying that he claimed to be king of the jews which was a POLITICAL offense." - D (Didn`t I quote myself making this point? But why the elaborate misrepresentation?) 2. "even the catholic church says it was the romans and their appointed jewish lackeys, is one more sign of toseftas disturbed personality that seeks to excuse every anti semitic charge known to man." - D I described what the Church says. It was the Roman but also the Jews of that time, but no national guilt. After that nobody needs to lie anymore, other than compulsive apologists. 3. "The you must think that snow white and the seven dwarfs must also be true because of the all the detail contained in the story?? " No, Mr. comprehension-challenged. What I said is that you can claim the whole story is false. Perhaps it is, but the question is the probability. Unfortunately for Danite, the story makes perfect sense as the Jewish reaction at the time to a man like Jesus who was seen as a blasphemer and a danger to the community. A normal Jew will not apologize for such behavior; it was JUSTIFIED. But Danite prefers denial. The mark of a man of limited imagination and intelligence, and driven by compulsion. (continued)

Howdy An American Reader; "Why cannot palestinians who`s ancestors lived in palestine for centuries not be allowed to return yet"? Because the Palestinians are hostile to the State of Israel and no sovereign country is obliged to absorb her enemies within herself. Besides, over 90% of the so-called "Palestinian refugees" were born outside of Israel and have never set foot there. "any jew can move to israel and get citizenship without hassle." A sovereign country's immigration policy is up to her alone and not up to any external foreign power or entity (including the UN). "How incredibly racist that is." You wouldn't know a race from a religion if they both hit you in the butt simultaneously. Israeli Jews are comprised of just about every race on the planet including Caucasians, Africans, Arabs, and Asians (there aren't too many Jewish Polynesians or Native Americans though). In addition, about 15% of the Israeli citizenry are Muslims, 3% Christian, and 2% Druze.

9. The following shows Danite the Apologist in all of his bizarre need to explain unpleasant facts away, even when explanation is not needed. If the reader is ticklish, better get yourself a few tissues now; you are about to platz. I have to thank a poster who referred to this gem which was not addressed to me. Here is : "Please note jesus was crucified, the penalty for political crimes and was crucified with two nationalist brigands ( lestai), and had "King of the Jews" over his forehead, all of which makes it very clear he was killed over politics.The gospel writters seeking legitimacy in rome had to wipe away any roman material, as much as possibel to prove that they were not allied with the anti roman zealots.The whole story is rife with politics." Here Danite is attempting to clear the Jews completely of Jesus` death, even when the Church has done it already in Vatican II , clearing the Jews of NATIONAL guilt. Of course, the Jewish leadership of the time was not cleared, but why is this a problem? Danite uses 2 devices: 1. Present Jesus death as a political crime against rome; 2. Accuse the gospels of lying about the Jewish involvement. Here is the device for Danite goal #1: (a) Claim that crucifixion applied only to political crimes. (b) Claim that the two criminals crucified alongside Jesus were political criminals. (c) The sign of "King of the Jews" over Jesus` head also proves it. Too bad all these misinterpretations are not correct. Roman citizens were not crucified for regular crimes, but non-citizens regularly were. (People interested in some facts might read "Crucifixion", by the renowned scholar Martin Hengel. I will only mention the heading of his Ch. 7: "Crucifixion as a Penalty for Rebellious foreigners, Violent Criminals and Robbers". Danite also misinterpret the Greek word (lestai) which means "robbers" (in Mishnaic Hebrew, "listim"). But for Danite they must be NATIONALIST brigands. Really. (Let`s laugh at the crudeness of this falsification.) As far as point (c), this should have been sufficient. As I said in reply, "The sad thing here is that there is no need for all these misinterpretations. The Gospels say that Pilate sentenced Jesus to death because he pretended to be King of the Jews. For them he was political in any case. But, Danite wants to clear the Jews completely!" ? Tosefta (Note that Danite probably is not happy with the possibility that the King epithet was only for mocking purposes, so he does a more thorough misinterpretation job.) (continued)

Keep it up Nicolas. Arabs stay away from Israel, it never been your land, never is and never will be. You can can spread your venum...but will change the reality. Land of Israel is for JEWS.

I could tell you where to shove your spurious propaganda,but I cannot be bothered with fools like yourself.Whatever you may have garnered I for one do not understand or give it any credence,even if it is true,what is your POINT? We have the same in churches whereby we have to put something in plate when collections come around.But then you would only bring up stupidly that the Shul(don't know much about shull)adn ther charging.Think for a minute if you can.Does the place need electricity,paying for the building etc,etc.Cynical people like you turn the truth into an absolute travesty. Ignorant Are like That.And you top them all...

Kath, my dear coquette, ooo la la, I am sorry but I happen to believe that the French have stopped the herd from heading over the cliff. Not all is over for the Republic, fine I am not the guy ringing a cow bell in Insbruck when Jean Claude Killy comes flying down the mountain, and yes I smile and even laugh when I remember the story of Aubin buying the Nordiques, because he was Francophone, and then selling them to Colorado. it is important to remember that France as an ally makes America strong, when it reacts as a hemroidal opponent, it has a tendency to draw the Left and other malcontents. Europe is not blind to the riots in the streets of Paris, or the death of Thiery Van Gogh, or the marchers calling for the beheadings of infidels in Trafalgar Sq., nor has it ingored the huge numbers of Arab citizens on the doll or filling their jails. The group that pulled off the Madrid bombings was called the "Reconquista", their dream to take back the Moslem land of Spain.

Don't you give money for the upkeep of your mosque or does the mullah have to steal it? Don't you pay your mullah or does he have to steal from you? Don't you give charity or do the poor children have to go out on the streets and beg? Don't you thank God for making you healthy and able to work? Or do you live off charity and smear your faces with dust and ashes every morning to fool the public?

This indicates the fundamental issue of Islam today. Christianity was able to study science and when realized that the world was not flat was able to admit it, when realized that the calendar had defects Pope Gregor was able to adjust it and reformation allowed Christianity to adapt to technology and science. Islam however believes that the Quran is the exact words of Allah and can not be argued (although this is not totally true because Islam allows Ictihat which has been abandoned since the Moslems quit Spain). Isn?t it common sense that while orbiting around the world many times in one earth time there is no practical way to face Mecca for an extended time? Isn?t it common sense that while orbiting around earth there will be several sunrise and sunsets in 24 hours? The issue is that old teachings must be adjusted to reflect the realities of modern times. If Allah gave you the power to discover the secrets of the universe he/she expects you to make the necessary changes accordingly which includes re interpreting the parts of the Quran that spreads Jewish hatred.

Sir, For practical reasons... You know, account :) Local n/papers call them names... I expect them not to expell Davidoff and not to close ski lfts. Of course you can continue to dispense your avice to Israelis - they need it...

long as other human beings don't pay for it!

Faith should be in the heart, many jews have this lack of faith as well. And what about the Jewish practice of CHARGING money to be part of Shul, or selling tickets and seats during the high holy days, where is god there?

There was this international deal struck sometime in the late 1940s whereby disputed land was to be divided between jews & palestinians, forcing compromises on both sides. For some reason other arab countries, most notably Jordan & Eqypt decided to take the land earmarked for Palestinians. I'm not sure why these arab occupiers were so inhospitable to the palestinians. Nor do I know why jews whose ancestors lived in arabic countries for centuries may no longer live there as well. The only solution now is to make real peace with real defined borders.

You might have missed my sarcasm when I referred to Indrajaya's 'except Palestinians'. Muslims/Arabs always claim to be the only ones suffering from whatever injustice, whereas at the same time they are the cause of even more suffering. As long as the Arab/Muslim world sits by and watches the Darfur genocide, I couldn't care less about the Palestinians.

You are too funny, there is a rapid growth of Islam in America, you are at the moment becoming MUCH more Catholic and Latin American...

Tulip Can you imagine that when the Muslim astronaut was up there in space,they had to find ways to accommodate him so that he could face Mecca? If that isn't absurd,what is I would like to know.Also the number of times they attend prayers:Are they genuine?Not so! once out they revert to their way of disgusting lifestyle. I call this the bigest hypocrisy ever.God would hear their prayers whether once or a thousand times!So,what is the point of 5,6,7,8,9, AD INFINTUM.Faith should be in the heart,and if not it is not a worthy endeavour...

David I am a bit confused about Mehmet.He has a turkish name,but I still wonder about his background.Methinks he may be a "Donme"?If I err than please forgive me Mehmetcik...

You still haven't gotten my point, no, you and your "buddies" keep on trying to curve around it, with full intention of course. I want an explanation from you, why a "racist, xenophobic" party would support weapon-deals with Israel and would support Israels policies in the ME, if Israels policy would be "whiter than white"...???? Kind of Swiss "black sheep" supporting the "white sheep" in the ME....???? Well, doesn't sound really logic, does it...??? I tried to show you a way out of your dilemma yesterday, but as long as you refuse to accept it, well, there is only one conclusion left.... Again, your choice.

The desert islam tries to stick her tentacles in Europe and influence moderate muslims. By funding boards of mosques, they slowly see their wish to islamize Europe come true. They bring an intolerant, homofobic, anti-women influence with them. Europe awake!

I posted that, plus a lot more, a few months ago, to lighten the talkback mood then. Have u been saving it? (My sister - who now lives in Israel - wrote it.) Nice to see it again. Thanks.

Who is calling it Eurabia? I hear many call the US Jewlandia! what does that mean? From our standpoint the jews aren't going to take over the US, THEY HAVE. Look at the influence of AIPAC, the pandering to the Jewish lobby, Israeli politics within the US where there is a lack of debate, etc. Muslim have always been a part of Europe, in fact, most Jews came with them. Muslims in fact, in many ways have more incommon with Christians that with Jews, as they seem to believe in Jesus Christ and the Virgin Mary. Be not afraid Kathy, me in Eurabia and you in Jewlandia. :)

Despite your assertions that the Jews were not part of society, having a mojority of them in say a small country like Lithuania changes the makeup of the country, its culture and people. You may say that they weren't 'taking' over but from the perspective of a native European it was much different. And while the few (I stress this) Muslim claim to want to take over the country, most do not, although the jews never said similar statements, they did it in the tribal nature and influence, hence the backlash. As an example, I point to the US, most expelled jews who were not liquidated either went to Israel or the US, and the state of the US is as it was in Europe, when we had jews, the small minority using the levers of government to control the majority. In the US's case, they welcomed the Jews and now are being run by them. :) PEACE For this reason I consider the Muslim influence, though more vocal, less of a threat.

But Fox "Vive L'afrance Libre" mais bien sure,but! They are having big problems with their 6 million Muslims and having problems trying to deal with them on the daily basis. Nothing will change,may get even worse,owing to their great procreating numbers at an alarming rate.As so happens with the palis.. Eurabia it is I fear

Read "Dream Palace of the Arabs" yet? or still content to get your info from Pravda? Ask the residents of Majd Al Shams whether the beautiful new high school the Israeli lottery money just built there counts as Israel "keeping" stolen territory. Better yet, keep whistling in the dark.

In case you haven't heard - yesterday the French government raised its terror alert level from "Run" to "Hide" - there are two higher levels - "Surrender" and "Collaborate". The rise was precipitated by a fire that destroyed France's white flag factory, effectively paralysing the country's military capability.

"The rest of Europe is becoming Islamisized" The expression "Eurabia" is an invention of American and Israeli far right. No one uses it in Europe. What you write is delirious and shows only how ignorant and irrational you are. Do you realize that the EU has 470 millions of inhabitants? Muslims in Europe are 11-12 millions for the maximum. The rest is nonsense.

I didn't shy away from your question, merely pointed out that it's based on lies and deception. Switzerland buys and sells weapons in the middle east as we speak and has been for years. Dubai, Iraq and Israel all have weapons deals with Switzerland so the tenuous linkage you attempt to make and the guilt by association that you strive for, is more a reflection of YOU than anything else. Of course the Swiss purchases from Israel were always justified by...they are the best deals available and considering how it's such a small amount in our global trade...there's no reason not to. Yep, another example of the fames swiss morality that you try to peddle. There is no "bridge", just your feeble attempt at passing innuendo off as a moral stance. whew..what's it going to take for you to realize that you're fooling nobody?

From where I come? I come from Paris France and i am a native French.

European There are 6.000.000 Muslims in France alone. In the UK there are nearly 2 million+.I cannot say how many there are in Germany,or in Austria but are reaching a jolly high number. The rest of Europe is becoming Islamisized and if you do not believe it sorry that is your problem.I wasn't talking particularely of Islamists,you just twisted it for convenience. I just put the number of Muslims in Europe and what many of their inhabitants are calling Europe now "EURABIA".And London is called "LONDONISTAN".If you have another idea please feel free to let us know. Thank You

The great historian, Tacitus, gave us a hint. Understand that in Latin, "Pius" meant reverencing Roman tradition and culture. When Tacitus called the Jewish religion "impius" he was only saying that Jews didn't revere Roman culture and tradition, per se. He gave a great example: Unlike the Romans, those crazy Jews forbade killing one's children! The barbarians! (Orthodox) Jews also refused to take part in the festival of Pan Priapus, when "pius" Roman women sat on the lap of a statue of Priapus (not sure I can elaborate more without getting censored, but look into that). Jews refused to engage in the worship of dead (or live) emperors. Jewish refusal to take adopt such wonderful Roman traditions helps explain why some Romans did not like the Jews. Still, other Romans had no problem with Jews, and even converted to Judaism. The Grove of Egeria in Rome was rented to Jews at a very early date. It's mentioned by Juvenal or Ovid, or both. And look up Flavius Clemens.

I am sure God will be satisfied with a lot LESS prayers if....etcetera.

So I see muslim civil rights are expendable on the altar of swiss national intrests??? care to build any bridges yourself?

Why cannot palestinians who's ancestors lived in palestine for centuries not be allowed to return yet, any jew can move to israel and get citizenship without hassle. How incredibly racist that is.

While what I am going to say counts for all religions, it will probably something unacceptable for muslims: praying 5 times a day means nothing, nada, zero. I bet God will be satisfied with a lot more prayers if they will use this time to find a solution for the discrimination of women and homo's and people from other religions. Praying 5 times a day does not make a person a person close to God.

they fled during the conflict of 1947/48 - Lebanon, Syria, Jordan and Egypt - all Arab countries. Although if and when a "Palestinian state" comes about in the West Bank Palestinian Arabs should be permitted to settle there, this tiny territory will not be able to sustain them, and therefore they should stay where they are and integrate into societies there.

Shadi Fadda, What about the nearly 1,000,000 Jews literally made illegal, stripped of their property and hounded out of arab and persian lands in 1948?? Some were there for 2000 years! Can they go back? Your own country makes it illegal to even meet with an Israeli! Please reply.

Howdy European; Prior to WW II, having a high birth rate may have been a plus, but since the world's resources are limited at sustainable levels, consumption per capita is increasing, and agricultural production has reached the point of diminishing returns, it is not prudent to increase the world's population above the 7.5 billion that it is now. "You cannot change the fact that god has blessed them [Mulims] with births, it is gods will." Usually, the word "God" is capitalized in English unless you are referring to a polytheistic diety. The only things that God's Will has "blessed" you with is an ignorance of birth control and a condemnation to perpetual and abject poverty. Have you ever wondered why advanced nations have low birth rates and underdeveloped countries have high birth rates? There's a correlation here. Check it out.

tentative. They were either slaughtered or expelled at the whim of the country in which they lived. There is no comparison with the fate of Jews and Moslems or the fate of the Jews with any other ethnic/religious group. The Jews have always been under attack, and still are. 850,000 Jews were expelled from the Arab countries for no reason other than they were Jews. Moreover, Jews never preached a takeover of any country. The Moslems are doing just that; establishment of a Moslem world according to Sharia. I suggest you buy a prayer rug and a compass so you can face Mecca 5 times a day in prayer.

Danite, if you would have read my posts well, you might have realised that I probably apologi- sed for the SVP, but I never cheered on them (they didn't get my vote). And that because I dont agree with them on certain things like the minarets. However, I support their standings on the EU (not yet time to join) and their opinion that 7 Mio. inhabitants are enough for a small country like Switzerland. However, your buddys peter and Jonathan S were shying away from my question, why this "racist,xenophobic" SVP is (by far) the biggest supporter of Israels policies among all parties in Switzerland. I tried to build them a "bridge" by saying that both are making terrible mistakes, but are not the evil devils as some portray them. Maybe you wanna cross that "bridge"...??

The price of freedom is eternal vigilance, my man. The ME has known eternal war since the days of the Pharaohs. Israel is just the excuse du jour. What difference does it make where the fight against Muslim fascists takes place? It must happen either way. Unless it's ok with you for the Saudis and Iranians to fund hate schools all over the world while you keep your head in the sand.

hate america and israel?.......why they hate the infidels so much,but they pray to allah five times a day,they should express love and not hate towards the infidels.

Is the best thing to happen to europe since Churchill, in fact like churchill he stands without fear against the forces of fascist reaction and obscurantist revanchianism.In the cae of churchill it was against the german variety, in the case of sarkozy it is the Muslim variety.Sarkozy is NUMBER ONE amoungst the tents of Dan.In fact he has even agreed to hear our ancient claim to the sheba farms and the sources of the hizbani in muslim occupied lebanon.We like him alot!!

by at least some of us. Many Bedouin and Druze help make Israel the great place it is. I know a Bedouin who worked for the Misrad HaChutz, and some Druze who serve in the IDF. Thanks for lettng that Xuan fellow hear your point of view.

You were born in Lebanon. They are the ones who need to give you justice, not Israel.

You wrote----"don camillo when do muslims have a "normal" life?" You will have a normal life victor when you go back to being Paul Harris.

ROR is off the table! It is not going to happen. Economically, it would wreak chaos and havoc on both the Pals and the Israelis. Persons BORN in other Arab countries (states) have the RIGHT to citizenship there and not in Israel. Arab states hold the Pals hostage, not Israel.

you wrote---"The one million Jewish refugees who were forced to flee from the Arab / Islamic countries between 1948 and 1967 are not returning." Albert, the two issues are not in the least way related.Jews who were forced to flee other Arab countries should take up their case with said arab countries.The Palestinian People ar not the ones to have to pay for tose actions.

Hi Tosefta, to be honest, I'm not as pessimistic as you are. At least here in Europe it looks like the big 5 (UK, Germany, France, Italy and Spain) are quite serious to make Annapolis to a success. Because if that conference goes downhill, the whole European position with regard to Hamas will fall apart. Apart from that, the ME conflict is the very last chance for the Bush administration to achieve at least one positive thing. And Condi Rice is a rather ambitious lady, she definitely doesn't like to be wrecked.... The main question will be: Does Israel want/need the help of the West in order to deal with Iran or not...??? If yes, I'm afraid it won't be for free.

We keep telling you this fact, you don't want to hear it. Pals will live in Palestine and Jews will live in Israel. BTW, a few more of my friends have joined the Indonesian boycott. :)

last night you implied that because of all the detail in the gospel about The Jews involvement in his crucifiction that it must therefore be true.The you must think that snow white and the seven dwarfs must also be true because of the all the detail contained in the story??You alos said that if we want to udnerstand why some greeks didnt like Jews we need to ask the greeks not the jews.Then you owuld have to agree that in order to know why germany launched the second world war we need to ask them not the poles or the russians nor to refer to any scholarship done since then.Therefore you must be willing to accept that they attacked ina pre-emptive defensive war to prevent a Jewish bolshevik take over and enslavemtn of the aryan world.This is the level of you dunce like approach to history that would get you laughed out of even a high school level class.The root of your nonsense, is your deperate need to assuage you guilt over your self hatred.

In the USA when the government takes someone's property the owner receives "just compensation". It's in our Constitution, 5th Amendment. In the middle east the UN took land from Palestinians and gave it to Jews. The Palestinians were never compensated. This is a festering sore that oozes discord to this day. The UN should set up a compensation commission where everyone who has a claim can come to present that claim and get compensated. This would include Jews who were displaced from their homes in the middle east, Africa, Europe and elsewhewre. This seems fair.

So peoples opinions are to be judged by their ethnic origin? I suggest therefore as an arab, you are on very very very very thin ice.

I have been trying to get a response from you for the past three days but you continue to avoid, so i will ask again.By what right do you have to attack israel over Palestinian rights when you cheer and apologise for an ultra right wing nationalist party that want to ban construction of minarets in Switzerland.How does that work for you??? PS as a Liberal I am in favour of muslims being able to build minarets where numbers make it reasonable to do so.

The one million Jewish refugees who were forced to flee from the Arab / Islamic countries between 1948 and 1967 are not returning. There is therefore no justification that the 750,000 Palestinian refugees be allowed to return to Israel.

Howdy Tosefta; The French just put a torpedo into the PNS (Palestinian Navy Ship) RoR (Right of Return) and she's starting to sink. Maybe the British can finish the job with another torpedo. And all you can say is, "There is no solution in it." On the contrary, it sounds like an excellent solution to me. All Palestinian refugees and their descendants can settle in the futuristic Islamic Republic of Palestine (after its borders have been determined first of course) provided that the PA is willing to absorb approximately 4 million, diaspora, UNRWA welfare junkies. Compensation for property losses will have to be done on a case-by-case, 1-to-1, pairwise, reciprocal basis for both Jewish and Palestinian refugees (or their heirs) else the Arabs will never compensate the Jews for their property losses. Since the losses were approximately equal, we might just as well forget about compensation for both groups too or it would lead to a lawyers' feeding frenzy.

I support Sarkozy's belief that Israel's security must be assured, and that Palestinian refugees should not return to the reconstructed State of Israel. However, he ducked the question of COMPENSATION and where the Jewish settlers presently in Palestine should live.

#1 Clickfool: He was clearly not drunk. He was out of breath because he was late for the press conference. He is a 50 year old man. So enough lying.

First of all, Turkey is asian, not European, in culture, geography, everything! I am talking about the EU, the Balkan Muslims are not part of this community, nor will they ever be, and forget about Turkey.

What do you think, Observer? Of course means the ingathering of the Jews in the land of Israel eternal war. This is because the Arabs have no clue what sharing is.

Hi Markie, are we coming a bit late (exactly 24 1/2 hours have passed since I wrote my post...:) I remember a time when you Dutch used to be much quicker (Neeskens, Cruyff....). And by the way, don't worry, I'm not living on social welfare. I'm quite busy "managing" my heritage. I know, unfortunately that won't bring me your sympathy. "Die Internationale......" :)

How can anyone compare to you? You know it all. I bet you graduated from sevaral grandes ecoles like Sorbonne, Harvard, Oxford etc. And you are such a rightous person that you should be heading the UN for life. And I am sure that you have no inferiority complex too. Haw cansomeone with your level of knowledge and intellect have inferiority complex right? Hayirli aksamlar.

P M Brown says much the same thing as Sarkozy.

....by your remark! Both these peoples have a culture and a belief-system of their own, which they are very proud of! My Druze friend feels offended by your remark. Obviously your world-view is very simple and narrow, therefore he forgives you...and so do I. PS.: The Pal-Moslems though are forcably trying to convert the Bedouines. Does that make Bedouines Arabs? Under the Israelis the Bedouines were free people of their own. Sigh! Those were the days....

I wonder what Sarkozy will feel like if he and his family were forced out from his house that his grandfather had built? Would he had said," well it is such a miracle that they took my house from me and my children, it is a miracle that they have destroyed our futures, it is a miracle that they can take everything from me just like that- because they claim that this land is theirs".

Liar liar pans on fire: "The Arabs got 80+% of the Mandate." The truth: UN Partition Plan 1947 Pals to receive 43% of the land, although they made up 69% of the total population ,and owned 92% (!!!!!) of the land. Jews to receive 56% of the land, while the made up 31% of the total population, and while owning ONLY 8% (!!!!!!) of the land. Only a camel would think this was a fair deal. Peter next time try saying the truth. If you ae not capable to do so, you could just simply just be quite please

...or do NOT Bosnia, and other small Balkan Moslem states and European side of Turkey count on the top of the Moslem immigrants in traditionally Xian European countries?

Igor, no one should wish for a military showdown, if it can be averted. Unfortunately, after more than three years of hoax negotiations between Iran and the Europeans, which led to nothing at all (if not for bigger trade between Iran and some EU-countries like Germany), time is running out. We should stop whining about the military potential of the mullahs. We faced in Cuba and in Berlin crises far more dangerous than this one. The mullahs are malicious, they are out to send kids as suicide bombers, but their capabilities are very restricted. We should stop whining and learn from 1938. If every peaceful attempt fails, we must be ready to confront the unavoidable. No civilized country on this planet can live with the threat that a nuclear device smuggled in by terrorists affiliated in some obscured way with the mullahs could go off in a major city. Life would become unbearable.

An idle person with a big ego who would have liked to be Sarkozy.

If Palestinian refugees should stay put and not return to Palestine, then Jews should do the same, using your same arguments. It is clear, you are not even content with Palestinians returning to their own country in the context of a two state solution. Jews do very well in America, there is no systematic anti-sematism....and as you see, most chose to stay in America. Let's stop with the double standards.

"Sarkozy? He is half a jew. His foreign minister is a jew. Etc... Anybody needs a better explanation?" (North American) And you? Half of what are you? And your mother? Father? Your dog?

Sarkozy said it indirectly. it's unreasonable for Palestinians to demand a state and a right of return. so as a Palestinian, i don't want a state. i want right of return. thank you Sarkozy for simplifying the issue.

Israel has succeeded to bring Jews dispersed for two millennia back home, and build -against the most violent odds- a society and a country that is democratic, vibrant, creative and happy. It still is. Just travel to Israel and se it for yourself. Crises can happen, but Israel is no "empire" Hubal, with its 20 or so thousand square kilometers. It is not a dictatorship nor a monolithic brick, but a dynamic tapestry of human strivings. It is by no means perfect, but nevertheless admirable from any standpoint.