Rice: U.S. to judge PA gov't based on whether it meets int'l demands

A quick review for new comers: 1) #64: Markus calls Abbas moderate 2) #146: I list facts about Abbas and ask how Markus can call him moderate 3) #172: The Swiss Miss won't address the facts and says that facts are Right-Wing 4) #404: I point out that he can't address the facts 5) #410: He whines because I point out he doesn't address facts. He still doesn't address facts. He's one of the best proofs of the ignorance and hate inherent in antisemitism. More enjoyably, he doesn't realize that and keeps proving it to all the lurkers. I'd love to openly thank him for his efforts, they help educate the uneducated who wish to be educated. He's doing a great service to Israel! Swiss: Thanx!

Poor David boy, don't worry, I don't have a sad life and I am not living in a hateful world at all, but I truly feel sorry for poor little David, who has to live in a paranoia world where he is probably considering even 80 % of his compatriots as potentially anti-Semitic... Poor, poor boy how could I only help you...?? P.S. Don't worry, I will give you only 1 Right- wing point for this one....

You've made some interesting questions, as best as I can determine. Samson - Was a prisoner of the Phillistines, he was seduced by Delilah, chained to the pillars of their temple. He didn't intentionally become a captive. We might call him a "I'm going to die anyway, you're all coming with me". Japanes Kamikaze pilots struck military targets, generally warships of one type or another. I can't seem to find a reliable records of them wasting aircraft attacking cities. Collateral Damage - All war is homicide in one form or another. Give & you shall receive.

It never happened? You must really be kidding. Arab armies consolidating their attacks, try 1967, the Six Day War. Israel beat the pants off a massive combined Arab attack. Here's a bit more of the eduction you're sorely lacking. The more you write, the more you display total ignorance. BTW - How are your Muslim Rape Gangs doing?? ------------------------------------------------ Six-Day War From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Jump to: navigation, search Six-Day War (Arab-Israeli conflict) IDF soldiers at Jerusalem's Western Wall shortly after its capture. Date June 5, 1967 ? June 10, 1967 Location Middle East Result Decisive Israeli victory Casus belli Egyptian naval blockade and military buildup in the Sinai Peninsula as well as Syrian support for Fedayeen incursions into Israel. Territorial changes Israel captured the Gaza Strip and the Sinai Peninsula from Egypt, the West Bank (including East Jerusalem) from Jordan, and the Golan Heights from Syria. Combatants Israel Active: Egypt Syria Jordan Aided by: Iraq Kuwait Saudi Arabia Sudan Algeria Commanders Yitzhak Rabin, Moshe Dayan, Uzi Narkiss, Israel Tal, Mordechai Hod, Ariel Sharon Abdel Hakim Amer, Abdul Munim Riad, Zaid ibn Shaker, Hafez al-Assad Strength 264,000 (incl. 50,000 regular troops); 197 combat aircraft Egypt 150,000; Syria 75,000; Jordan 55,000; Saudi Arabia 20,000; 812 combat aircraft Casualties 779 killed, 2,563 wounded, 15 prisoners (official casualties) 21,000 killed, 45,000 wounded, 6,000 prisoners over 400 aircraft destroyed (estimates) Arab-Israeli conflict 1920 riots · Jaffa riots · 1929 Palestine riots · 1936-1939 Arab revolt · 1948 Arab-Israeli War · Suez Crisis · Six-Day War · War of Attrition · Yom Kippur War · 1978 South Lebanon conflict · 1982 Lebanon War · 1982-2000 South Lebanon conflict · First Intifada · Gulf War · al-Aqsa Intifada · 2006 Israel-Lebanon conflict The Six-Day War (Arabic: حرب الأيام الستة, ħarb al‑ayyam as‑sitta ; Hebrew: מלחמת ששת הימים, Milhemet Sheshet Ha‑Yamim), also known as the 1967 Arab-Israeli War, the Third Arab-Israeli War, Six Days' War, an‑Naksah (The Setback), or the June War, was fought between Israel and its Arab neighbors of Egypt, Jordan, and Syria with Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, and Algeria contributing troops and arms to their fronts. When Egypt expelled the United Nations Emergency Force from the Sinai Peninsula, increased its military activity near the border, and blockaded the Straits of Tiran to Israeli ships, Israel launched a pre-emptive attack on Egypt's airforce fearing an imminent invasion by Egypt.[1] Jordan then attacked the Israeli cities of Jerusalem and Netanya.[2][3] At the war's end, Israel had gained control of the Gaza Strip, the Sinai Peninsula, the West Bank, and the Golan Heights. The results of the war affect the geopolitics of the region to this day. -----------------------------------------------

method of lying. Over and over again it's been proven that the IHCJ says the people are occupied and the land disputed. As it also isn't the only arbiter in Israel, the legislative branch of the government has accepted UNSCR242 and the need to negotiate real borders, since the Armistice Agreements only said where combat ceased. Yet JB thinks that by ignoring the facts, continually running away from them, and reposting his lies on other talkbacks they'll amazingly become true. He is the master of denial.

1) The Muslim Brotherhood, of which Hamas is a member, declared global jihad its cause in 1928 2) The Arab League declared war against Israel's existence in '48 3) Fatah did so in '58 4) The PLO did so in '65 If you can be honest, you will have to admit that the war declared by Palestinians has nothing to do with the "occupation" and everything to do with Israel's existence. Therefore, the answer to your question "what should the Pals do" is obvious: 1) Unconditionally end the war they unconditionally began 2) Admit the GL is an armistice line and not a border 3) Negotiate real borders 4) Give Jews the same rights Israel gives Arabs Here's the question for you: Can you accept the truth?

Rather than dealing with reality. If he looks at Jewish discussions about UNR181, most complained about the cantonization of the suggested borders for Israel. All hated the idea of making Jerusalem an "international city." However, as that's the only deal offered, they took it in the hope there'd be peace and that the Arabs would be happy controlling 90% of British Palesitne, the land of the Balfour Agreement. Sadly, CF's ancestors weren't happy and declared war. He also loves to lie with statistics. Since the British government owned more than 80% of all land in the Mandate, neither Arabs nor Jews owned more than 10% each. Also, most of "Israel" was the Negev, while most fertile land was given to the 2nd Pal majority nation. To repeat, Israel was on 10% of the Mandate's land, Jordan is 80% and the Pals were offered the other 10%. Most importantly, I've never seen CF call for Pakistan and Bangladesh to be rolled back into India because Muslims were a minority in British India.

Notice that poor little Swiss can't argue any of the points. He can't contradict them without lying. So what he does is claim that posting facts is somehow "right wing". Facts are neither "left" or "right", they're facts. Only suggested actions based on those facts can be classified as such; but it would take an education to know that. Well, given his ability to lie and to avoid reality, I'm not surprised. The worst people in the world, not just antisemites such as Dino, assiduously avoid reality because their belief systems would fall apart. Luckily, there are people who don't care whether a specific opinion is "Left" or "Right" and don't keep a scorecard based on what their leaders tell them. Sadly, Dino doesn't have the independence and intelligence to join the crowd that wishes to look at facts and figure out a solution based on them. He's a poor, sad man, living in a hate filled world. As long as he doesn't advocate violence, pity him.

There is no dispute at all about the status of the West Bank. The Israeli High Court of Justice, the State of Israel, and the Commander of the IDF in the West Bank have all accepted as an indisputible fact that the West Bank is held in "belligerent occupation" by the IDF. If you hold territory under "belligerent occupation" then - obviously - it ain't your territory i.e. it does not belong to Israel. The International Court of Justice was asked by the UN General Assembly to look at the legal implications of the security wall, and the ICJ gave a categorical statement in its advisory that the West Bank is occupied territory held by the IDF. Same deal as the IHCJ - if you occupy it, then you can't claim it as your own. Both the UN GA and the UN SC has said many times that the West Bank is occupied, and any attempt at annexation is illegal. So, what have YOU got that says otherwise, apart from empty slogans?

BEN JABO - thanks for the explanation about suicide vs homicide bombers. So kind of like Samson was a homicide demoslisher? And what were the japanese kamikaza pilots? you know there were lots of civilian casualtuies in their attacks as well? would you consider theisr a legitimate military tactic? What about any operation where there is so-called "collateral damage"? is that homicide too? Just asking....

You mean palestine? you can all it disputed all you want bu nthen accept that israel is disputed also. Can't have one without the other.

Who are the Israelis & American officials to reject the democratic will of the Palestinian people and now its unity government? They needs to stop their own violence against the Palestinian peo- ple and Iraqi people.They are fueling terror instead of reducing it with their violence and are creating tens of thousands of Bin Laden and placing us all at risk for reprisals. The Palestinian people are the last people on Earth who should be the subjected to a cruel boycott.Their economy has already been battered by years of Israeli restrictions. In 2004 the World Bank reported that 60% of the population were subsisting on less than $2 dollars a day and nearly a half million people relied on food aid and many suffered from malnutrition, anemia and low birth weights. (Please see Dr Derek Summerfield's report in the British Medical Jr. http://bmj.bmjjournals.com/cgi/content/full/329/7471/924) In addition, over 50% of their population are under the age of 17 years and as Dr. Alice Rothchild pointed out from her visit to Gaza last year -- many have already been traumatized by years of military operations and exposure to violence: "At the Gaza Community Mental Health Program, Dr. Eyad el Sarraj spoke of an entire population suffering from the symptoms of post- traumatic stress disorder, anxiety and depression, a consequence of high unemployment, extreme poverty and massive exposure to violence... A recent study by the program of 10-to 19-year-olds in Gaza found that two-thirds have seen a friend or neighbor killed or wounded, more than one-third have been tear-gassed and 82 percent suffer from moderate to severe PTSD". You can read Dr. Rothchild's full report at: http://www.vopj.org/conflict22.htm) Now Israeli & American officials have compounded this atrocious situation and are adding to this human misery. This is criminal. I call upon people of conscience everywhere to raise their voices and condemn extending this boycott. It's unconscionable. Dutch.

Your 3 responses were puzzling and I like to solve puzzles. Maybe you are Chinese? in asking me so very nicely not to speak for you, perhaps you meant it in the plural? as in trying to explain a plausible CHINESE position? well, the only logical explanation I can come up with for now. Kind of makes me wonder whether I was on to something....

Weird stuff all over the place.

I was replying to your post #153, taking up the point made originally by ballistic in #160, then expanding further in 373. Seemed perfectly normal. I most certainly had no intention of explaining YOUR position. I was taking an issue with it. This is more adverserial than secretarial, I should think. Here it is again so we have no misunderstandings: You dismiss China as a potential player behind the scenes propping up Iran's position. I don't dismiss them and neither did ballistic. This is a point on which I am sure many people are paid handsomely to try and make the call. None of us - who are not privy to Chinese internal maneuvrings knows for sure. And we seem to have no Chinese posters on these boards. So we argue, as much as limited space permits. What I don't understand is what got into you today. Something must be in the air because tempers seem to be bubbling...

COMMENT AFTER COMMENT POSTED THAT HAS NO RELATION TO FACT OR EVIDENCE .

Don't waste time & energy on that arrogant @#$%Hole He obviously has an inferiority complex as a result of his being a failed ISRAELI. A YORED, who gets his rocks off @ attempting to attack REAL ISRAELIS with his childish purile comments. I for one will NOT be drawn into "conversation" with an ignoramus who only sneaked into the "gene pool" whilst the lifesaver was on lunch. You'll notice that his inferiority complex has ceased to bother him now that he realises he IS inferior. Shalom v'koll Tov....ARI

years if zionists keep up their nonsense over there. Better get to peace while you can.

2 WONGS MAKE ACOLIN WRIGHT !!!

How on earth people can expect something productive and meaningful for peace will come from a Secretary of State who acted like A DAUGHTER (look her body languages) in the front of Israel Prime Minister.

Howdy Marilyn: We are not cretins. Free Settlers? - it is OK. We just thoughr that in 1840 (when your ancestors arrived) all newcomers to Australia from Europe were either CRIMINALS, or GUARDS. Now we see that your ancesters were free settlers. Now we understand why you have so "free" way if thinking. Now we understand why you so like to "settle" World's Problems. - Evidently, it is a tradition of "free settlers". What we don't understand: "Why from all the World Conflicts you selected this one - between Palest. and Israel?" Is it because your free Aystralian settlers hated Jews, and you just continue family tradition?

could have been better chosen. I am a black woman and Ballistic is my male pit bull and also my email name, so I used it when I started posting. I realize there are problems everywhere, but allegations of apartheid by Carter and the int'l community need to be investigated. Imagine if the UAF flew an F16 over an US apt house and dropped a 2,000 lb bomb or brought in a gunship to Philadelphia get 1 or 2 people. The Pals have a beef; their land has been stolen. Zionists want to go to war with Iran because she objects. I don't know if there will ever be peace over there, but one thing is for sure, there won't be if zionists keep messing with the Arabs over there. Did you see the Ethiopian community that Israel transported and who complained in Haaretz about their treatment? Just wondering. Very best regards and thanks for the post.

until zionists change their stripes since both groups are a reaction to injustice by zionists. You can kill the bodies, but the thoughts become genetic after 60 years of bad treatment. That is a pipe dream. Kill some, more step up. It is the longing of a people to breath free as they once were.

The Israeli/Pal situation is quite different than what you cite, the main reason being that land is and continues to be taken from the Pals based on some mess other folks, not Arabs, did. Why should Pals give up their land cause zionists want a Jewish state. Jews and Arabs have lived together before, so wherein lies this difference. Bunches of Jews and those saying they are jews flocked to Palestine. Now folks there want to cleanse them. 1.2+ billion people read and believe the Koran and if they do I doubt Christianity and Judasim will take hold in those countries, especially after the shenanigans that Israel carried out upon their mass arrival. Different circumstances. Unfortunately, the behavior coincides with what the Koran says about Christians and Jews. So now what, you advocate only Jews in the Holy Land cause Arabs don't have Jews by and large?

are right, but right now Bush is talking much trash about how he runs the military, this and that. Sounds like the same ole BS US voters and Congress were told in the run up to Iraq, they knew this, that, where sh-t was, Saddam gave suicide bombers' family money, yada yada yada. Turned out to be BS and I bet Bush secretly wishes he left Saddam; he was our pimp. Oh well!! Thanks for the post. Regards.

with the price of tea in China. One cannot convert to a bloodline; ask Howard Stern. You are either part of it or you are not. Zionists claim that Pals have no tie to the land; Israelis claim God gave it to them. My point is all those folks who flocked there claiming they were Jews may not be and it should be looked at cause the more people who come, the more land you need to steal. Seems like the different 'jews' are treated differently over there, which happens frequently when those doing the treating are different than those being treated. Google them and see their history, which was quite war like. Never mind the BS sling, you know exactly what I am talking about; stop trying to obfuscate the issue.

Seems many of these posters are concerned about a 2,000 year old wall and artifacts; I guess they think their situation will remain the same with them snatching and slurping land while claiming victimhood and no peace partner. Some of their own have warned them and they are attacked. As ole folks used to say, "a hard head makes a soft arse". Thanks for the post. Regards.

truthfulness for what she saw, not at all. I asked her about other aspects of the mess over there to see if she had a balanced view. You can visit Cancum and it is beautiful, but go look at the neighborhoods surrounding it. One would need to look at the Pals living condition in addition to beautiful Israel and come up with a conclusion about the matter. Given what is happening, I guess I will never get to see it!

If you are talking about Cipora's post; that's true, I don't usually personally attack any poster even though I am on more than 1 occasion attacked. It was the nature of Cipora's post suggesting that the posters against bad Israeli behavior were not up to her moral standard, a thought I find offensive if she is in fact a part of the Kohn family that Hannah laid out. Sorry to offend you.

Seems to me she laid out the history of the Kohn family as bankers/financiers. Is that your family tree?

When they kill "ONLY" themselves - It's SUICIDE When they kill others - It's HOMICIDE or MURDER

Why don't you try to do a bit of research before you put your foot in your mouth? "As for the arabs attacking-it has never happened in the history of Israel". Where did you get this piece of disinformation from?. Of course you never reveal your sources, you make these stories up as you go along. ----------------------------------------------- 1948 Arab-Israeli War From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Jump to: navigation, search 1948 Arab-Israeli War (Arab-Israeli conflict) Part of Wars of Independence Attacks 15 May?10 June 1948 Date November 1947?March 1949 Location Middle East Result 1949 Armistice Agreements Combatants Egypt Syria Transjordan Lebanon Saudi Arabia Iraq Holy War Army Arab Liberation Army Israel Commanders Glubb Pasha Abd al-Qadir al-Husayni? Hasan Salama? Fawzi al-Qawuqji Yaakov Dori Yigael Yadin Strength Egypt: 10,000 initially rising to 20,000 Iraq: 5,000 initially rising to 15,000?18,000 Syria: 2,500?5,000 Transjordan: 6,000?12,000 Lebanon: 1,000 initially rising to 2,000 (Pollack, 2004; Sadeh, 1997) Saudi: 800?1,200 An unknown number of Yemeni troops Arab Liberation Army: 3,500-6,000 29,677 initially rising to 115,000 by March 1949 Casualties unknown (between 5,000 and 15,000) 6,373 (4,000 troops and about 2,400 civilians) 1948 Arab-Israeli War Jerusalem - Gush Etzion - Kfar Etzion - Yad Mordechai Arab-Israeli conflict 1920 riots · Jaffa riots · 1929 Palestine riots · 1936-1939 Arab revolt · 1948 Arab-Israeli War · Suez Crisis · Six-Day War · War of Attrition · Yom Kippur War · 1978 South Lebanon conflict · 1982 Lebanon War · 1982-2000 South Lebanon conflict · First Intifada · Gulf War · al-Aqsa Intifada · 2006 Israel-Lebanon conflict The 1948 Arab-Israeli War, referred to as the "War of Independence" (Hebrew: מלחמת העצמאות?) or as the "War of Liberation" (Hebrew: מלחמת השחרור?) by Israelis, is the first in a series of armed conflicts fought between Israel and its Arab neighbors in the ongoing Arab-Israeli conflict. For Palestinians, the war marked the beginning of the events they refer to as "The Catastrophe" ("al Nakba", Arabic: النكبة?). After the United Nations proposed to partition the territory of the British Mandate of Palestine into two states, Jewish and Arab, the Arabs refused to accept it and the armies of Egypt, Syria, Transjordan, Lebanon and Iraq, supported by others, invaded the newly established State of Israel which they intended to destroy.[1] As a result, the region was divided between Israel, Egypt and Transjordan.

I'm not surprised. After the meeting between the Emir of Qatar and Ahmadinejad a few months ago, then the Summit, it only stands to reason this would happen. Could be why Iran is playing war games. They are getting worried.

I can therefore define who is a real progressive cant I? take that to your professor and report back.Please dana the level of your argumentation is rather immature, I wont waste time on it.believe whatever your little heart desires.Good Luck and all the best.

Marilyn, I don't know how I am ever going to be able to forgive the Israelis for the crimes and great wrongs they have committed against the Palestinian people. I know I want justice and I will support bringing many of the offenders to trial. But I can't understan how Israelis and Jews around the world are remaining quiet about Israel's crimes. They are horrific and this must be said and acknowledged. Thank you for caring about this too. I know it is terribly distressing to see how other governments aren't speaking up too. And now Olmert is making matters worse by refus- ing to accepting their unity government. Well, I am not accepting this from him either. It's cruel and unkind. Dutch P.S. During the cold war the Russians didn't accept the Americans either and threatened to wipe them off the face of the earth. But no one got bent out of shape and suggested not talking to them or boycotting them or indeed nuking them. And I am so glad now.

I know about the Khazars and how they fit into the hsitory of east european jews, I wanted to know what you knew as you are now trying to say that Ashkenazi Jews are not 'real Jews" and have no claim in israel.Your theories were disproven decades ago.Tell me is their such thing as a real american? The Klan seems to think it is only anglo saxons, based on your racialist theories of identity,I guess you would agree.The Jewish people has always been a mixed people,even King Davids grandmother was a Moabite and Moses himself married a Midianite, so whats your point?

As I said before, I didn't appoint you my spokesperson nor my secretary.

A little knowledge is a dangerous thing.

Chinese behavior in foreign policy affairs is dictated usually by much longer term interests than say israel's or the US's. A country with cetralized power can do that, of course - much harder in democracies with conflicting powerful constituencies. This allows the Chinese to be more subtle in how and when they move, minimizing adverse reactions. Your post demonstrates exactly how well this works. Sure, the Chinese will leave no stone unturned in their quest to assure survival of their economy and people. Drilling off cuba, exploring in Africa are just fine. None of these are a sure thing in terms of oil flow though. Far from taking their eye off Iran, they are content to let the US exhaust itself on side shows like Iran's nuclear power (not gonna happen for long time anyways) and Iraq debacle - bleeding money and people - even as China quietly and methodically secures better deals. As a Gendankenspiel, imagine a place where Israel is not an issue (e.g., peace). Any difference?

Your predecessors called it "Final Solution". You can try it again but remember that Jews now have a state of their own and know how to defend themselfs.

I thought you took it fron the cannanites ronnie boy.I must be reading the wrong book sorry.

and another thing,the Westbank is disputed territory.

Time to stop recognizing The PA as an Peace partner.There goal is the destruction of Israel

Ballistic? That is a name that does not give a peaceful image. Anyway I visited mainly towns but also an Arab village where people lived as well as any I have seen. But like you say we know apartheid but I saw none and I can only state what I have seen. Nowhere on this Earth is perfect and you can find poverty anywhere. The problem is people, especially those who preach hate, theorise. They think they know it all when they really know very little or just go on about one side, one side, one side, all the time when there are two sides . But they don't want to know about the other side and that is where the problem lies. That is all I have to say so farewell and shalom.

Since when did I name you my speaker or secretary? Are you that needy?

Please read the aritcle on "the portion of the week" I would love to hear your erudite commentary.Some of you seem to know so much about our inside secrets, this material should a piece of cake for you to handle.

Was Australia taken with permission from the aborigines? Clean up your own backyard.

I'll let you answer for me from now on. Presumptuous of you.

What do you know about the Khazars??

Haven't seen anything by this particular, mysterious poster. Didn't look too hard either (may post elsewhere for all I know). This was her kind of board, though. Usually just a single well written, short, pointed, on-topic post seemed designed to elicit similarly-minded responses. Typically on the left side of the spectrum, but not radically so. Never caught her in a typo or a grammatic mishap (which made me ever so jealous). Said Natalie never responded to anyone - one post/board, no exceptions that I saw. Always wondered whether this was a haaretz insider trying to prompt courtly, civilized but passionate discourse. Didn't work of course, still got the same hateful stuff we all get when we post anything to the left of the extreme right. Another observation: posted usually at the beginning of the board, suggesting overseas time zone (North America?). Any ideas? BTW for those who don't know - Natalie's were the types of posts that can actually get published in letters to the editor

The Russian jews "discovered" their Jewish identity long before the Russian state was even founded, the soviets tried to erase it.You make it seem untill the soviets the Russian Jews were wondering who they were but that it took anti semitism to wake them up.Dana you really have a very hate filled and tendentious and shallow view of us.Your BA level cardboard cut out view of the world really is showing its serious limitations.You got us all figured out,right precious?

I dislike you and dislike the idiocy of yours even more. You do not have a single bone in your body that does not reek of Jew and Israel hatred but that is probably the wrong thing to say to you as it is a badge of honour to you. A pathetic badge but a badge nevertheless. Let me say that any trash can post here and trash like you has a place of honour. The only consolation is that once the government of Israel acquires a backbone than you will go poof into thin air. I may loathe Danites ideas but he will come around. You on the other hand will remain a bona fide ANTI SEMITE

Since i collect them and will use in my next exhibit (with due references, of courses - by now you know I don't skimp on credit). Whatever happened to the Little Precious one? I'll just assume you are having a bad day - and john mackie got somehow under your skin. If that's the case perhaps I'll wait till visitng hours tomorrow since you are in no shape to mud wrestle today. Just talk to Kath - seems like a nice lady - she'll understand, and give you some nice medicine. BTW - I have the same right as anyone else in the world to define what I think a Jew is (or should be). For all you know - I have more than a right, perhaps even an obligation. Take my posts to your rabbi and ask him if you don't believe me (please tell me you saved them all....)

Perhaps I wasn't clear. By getting rid of Hamas I meant to destroy Hamas not talk to them.

If we don't need ONE country just for a religion, why is it the Arab States only have ONE religion? Shouldn't you make the same demands of those countries as well? Like Saudi Arabia? ONE country, ONE religion. No others allowed, none, zilch, nada.

"Delegates from Arab states are meeting at an arms fair in the United Arab Emirates (UAE), embarking on huge military spending in a bid to contain a perceived threat from Iran. It follows concern from Gulf states that Iranian military influence has grown across the wider Middle East region. Gulf leaders have watched with growing alarm as Iranian influence has spread throughout the Middle East. Iran is also suspected of using its influence in the Palestinian territories and Lebanon, most notably towards the Hezbollah (Party of God) political party and resistance movement."

Once again we have you pronouncing on who is Jewish even.What makes you think you are qualified to pronounce on that escapes me.And how about disolving all lobbies? Including the Muslim one? I see you can take the girl out of the ME but you cant take the ME out of the girl.Enjoy the paranoia.

Personal attacks? Shame, that has never been your style. Disagreeing is one thing, respect is another.

I thought I was the one and only "pseudo-progressive' (my expression, inspired by Danite). Now I have you as company! Should we gang up on him? after all, he probably sees himself as a true "neo-progressive", so we can have the PSEUDO's vs the NEO's match, officiated by some fine PROGRESSIVE linemen. Don't worry - I'll get the cheerleaders (that's my department).

Guess what guys, I am from both Christian and Jewish desecent and I still do not know what kind of nefesh this is. John, please explain to me.

Howdy Roberta; There were no borders between Israel and the Gaza Strip or the West Bank in 1967. The armistice lines of 1949 (West Bank) and 1950 (Gaza Strip) were never borders because of Arab refusal to recognize Israel. If Israel withdrew to the 1949 armistice line with respect to the West Bank, then the Western Wall would be under PA juristiction and Israel will never, ever relinquish it without a nuclear war first. You need to modify your demands and compromise a little.

I thought you were getting better? I even tried to say something good to Tosefta about you (OK, it failed to post, but I did too try). Too harsh, my friend, way too harsh....

Before you lecture Jews, or perhaps Christians as well, just do something about the flaws in your own culture. I bet many muslim women say "I apologize for being submitted by Arabs".

Iran. Dunno. Doubt it. Hope not. I think the sabre rattling has ANOTHER purpose Russia would take exception in the strongest terms. STRONGEST terms. Stronger than even that.... It's about Saudi Arabia...............imho If he did, there would be in USA either a) a constitutional crisis or b) a military mutiny.

point or asking him - nicely at first, then impatiently - to drop the silly caps, is like asking my cat to bark and wag its tail on command. Not gonna happen, alas. Not that I don't keep trying (same for Paul - we all hope for miracles to happen sometimes....because sometimes they do - or so I heard). By the way I think he has locked himself into a bad place with his back against the wall on these talk boards. Can't retreat, can't move forward. We should perhaps be a bit more merciful...

Ronnie I just read your response to Mackie on "Aryans and Jews".His preparation for the whole scenario for him. Press and clean his brown shirt,and the paraphernalia,and the rest. Coming to the end with a clicking of his heels and looking down where both laces on both feet tied down together. Absolutely wonderful,sorry I missed it,too lazy ro read each and everyone,and some from our people are gems indeed... Cheers Ronnie

Chinese behavior in foreign policy affairs is dictated usually by much longer term interests than say israel's or the US's. A country with cetralized power can do that, of course - much harder in democracies with conflicting powerful constituencies. This allows the Chinese to be more subtle in how and when they move, minimizing adverse reactions. Your post demonstrates exactly how well this works. Sure, the Chinese will leave no stone unturned in their quest to assure survival of their economy and people. Drilling off cuba, exploring in Africa are just fine. None of these are a sure thing in terms of oil flow though. Far from taking their eye off Iran, they are content to let the US exhaust itself on side shows like Iran's nuclear power (not gonna happen for long time anyways) and Iraq debacle - bleeding money and people - even as China quietly and methodically secures better deals. As a Gendankenspiel, imagine a place where Israel is not an issue (e.g., peace). What do you see now?

Howdy Jane; I don't think that it is possible to get rid of Hamas, but it might be possible to remove their strangle hold on the PA or to get them to ammend their Charter (which is less likely). Hamas is based on religious fanaticism and there is no talking with such people.

No response to #308? Tell me oh mighty one, about what percentage of the Khazars converted, were their jews from elsehwere in Khazaria? If so , what does that do to your racialist theories.?Thanks

he said blond jews were not real Jews.I asked him if jamaicans and arabs can ever be real britons because they are not blond.So far the racist hypocrite has not responded.

Must agree with you on this. There are things happening on the wider world stage that the narrower, parochially minded posters here do not take into account. That includes me, sometimes, but even more unfortunately Rice (who, unlike me is paid to consider these wider issues in context). As you implied ballistic - the big issue hovering over the entire world is the one known as the Oil Peak - a point some say has already been reached, others believe it is around the corner. This is what the Chinese and the Russians see and what they are planning for. Of course, the US knows too - that's why they are in Iraq. Given a US caught between the pincers of Russian oil capacity and Chinese hunger, aided by Venezuela and Niger mavrickism. It would have been so much smarter to co-opt others such as Saudi-Arabia and Iran. To do that you just need to work a bit harder on the Israel/palestine problem. Instead, both Israel and US are hostage to narrow RW interests which are not condusive to either.

How about no more AIPAC-run US government with outright blackmail prerogatives on US foreign policy? If you Bill B want to obliterate all the palestinians and/or transfer them out of the way of thug-settlers, perhaps you could also make it clear that for you, US policy is set by what's good for the Right Wing settler and ethnic cleansing likud party and not Israel or the US. Then we'll know where you stand and respond accordingly. Of course, it's pointless to say this because you probably are committed to seeing only one side. But most people in the world know that suicide bombings were a response to occupation and confiscations of land for settling taliban-minded orthodox (whom I wouldn't even call jews) and recent arrivals from e.g., russia (who also dicovered their judaism only in the context of the radical fascist-like strong-arm tactics of the countries they knew (no smear intended on all russians and/or russian jews by any means; just the settlers and settler-supporters).

Howdy John; All politicians and diplomats excel at smoke shoveling and non-committal speech. After all, they and they alone know what is best for us ignorant peons and they are loath to reveal the specifics about anything unless they are put on the rack. Politicians like secret talks and agreements because it makes them feel superior to the rest of us--they know something that we don't and they can justify it by claiming "national security concerns". It's not my fault that scum rises to the top, but that's the way it is. Now, don't tell me that things are any different in Canada because I won't believe you.

The PA should pack its bags and leave. Let the Israeli government take its legal responsibility as occupiers for the welfare of the occupied. The presence of the PA has given the Israelis a carte blanche to usurp the land, strangle the economy and starve the population. Since the Israelis always claimed "there is no peace partner", therefore, the presence of the PA in the territories is superfluous.

first ballistics, i doubt you know anything about hamas. "Hamas has gotten most of its funding from the exploitation of charity," said Stuart Levey, Treasury undersecretary for terrorism and financial crimes. "They've structured themselves to provide plausible deniability, to have the public face of a political, social, humanitarian side, and then the military side." "A significant portion of some of the sales (of drugs) are sent to the Middle East to benefit terrorist organizations." DEA administrator Asa Hutchinson.

Did it ever occur to you she is telling the truth? That there is propaganda on both sides? that things are done to promote a biased view?

I've never seen a post of yours that made a personal attack on another person. Why start now? Expressing ones beliefs is one thing, but this? Not good.

but for show , ears to hear only to judge PA gov't based on whether it meets int'l demands To judge Israel based on its actions but only to judge arabs based on there say,the more foggy is the arab say the better,even charming , Peace isn't a commodity , but terror is , live with terror , land for terror , shit happens , smile be happy , go see a movie

which is 3% in the Israeli arab population, Israeli arabs will reach 6 million in roughly 150 years by which time Jews will be 19 million. Israeli arab population will overtake Israeli population in just under a millenium, so you'll have to forgive me for not being as concerned about the demographic "threat" as you seem to be...

Hey Down der in DUBAI Have you cared to notice that there is already a Palestinian State called Jordan! The dispute is whether the world wants to put up with a second state built on mindless terror. Also,reality check....Arab nationalism created this monster Ginie! And guess what? Once the ginie is out of the bottle it is just as likely to devour it's master(creators). It is already happening. So watch out!!

You actually have no clue. Do You? Abbas will bring piece now that is a real laugh and you are the butt of this joke for even saying it. Abbas is a terrorist with a smile and a suit. He unlike Arafat (MAY HE ROT IN HELL) occasionally humours us. The road to piece runs with the Israeli(Shelanu Arabs) if they manage to get their way and persuade the Leftists and HOOmanists like you to destroy Israel via the right of return. Why are you so Bitter with Israel. You got part of your wish through intermarriage so now you want all Jews to be saved that way. Please if you cannot defend Israel than at least make like the birds and flock off.

whether or not PA gov't meets int'l demands, they kick out jews from Jerusalem/Silwan , they portray it as lawfull , liberal society , They say Temple Mount in Jews Hands while in fact Al aqsa is still Islam occupation of Jewish Temple Mount , they call it religious freedom , Freedom for whom certainly not the Jews , "Hey Jew , don't be afraid " said Jhon Lenon song , Lenon meant US Jews not Israelis-Jews , not outside America Jews

how much of Israel did you see? Were you able to go through Palestinan camps? I too am black and our people know apartheid when we see it. Problem is not in Israel proper but in zionist treatment of the Pals. Issues need to be discussed, and I don't view that as hate. Hopefully these mad hatters are discussing them. Anyway, I was telling Bev, another poster, that black folks are not monolithic in our opinion. Regards.

Hannah would know absolutely nothing about my family. Actually, no one does. My post referenced those posting here today. I would never stoop so low as to make comments on peoples' families on the basis of their racist, ignorant comments here.

more than sufficient history of the people! If not, write me back and I will zip you cites.

the more folks you find as beneficiaries, the more land you will need to steal to house them and the more Aran anger will grow. By the time zionists get done importing people, you will need to steal the whole ME. What is it not relevant?

those that believe in G-d.

Those who would be murdered if they left Islam are they Moslems? Are "believers" the only "beloved of Allah"?

Clarification: I do NOT believe that the Palestinians should recognize Israel as long as they are being occupied. Original comment: I can only hope for peace, I truly believe ordinary Israelis and Palestinians do want peace and one day they will be living in peace.I do believe that the Palestinians should recognize Israel as long as they are being occupied.

Jeff hello I don't mind Olmert kissing Condi',but I wouldn't want to see any kisses between the two men thank you.Had that with previous P.M's and it looks disgusting if you don't mind my saying so.Let them just shake hands in a traditional and manly way.That is if things turn out positive. Bottom line Jeff,a fiasco it is.We didn't expect much,bar a photo'opportunity anyway did we?

Saudi's may have the oil, but won't be able to keep Iran from taking it if the U.S. doesn't defend their kingdom. There's many a Saudi & Iranian that wants to kick the House of Saud in the seat of the pants and throw them out. The Saudi Army is incapable of defending the Kingdom, it's too small, basically a police force. Without U.S. backing, it's here today, gone tonite. Aside from that, if Saudi's don't sell America oil, it'll go broke. They're strapped for $$$$

I think the possibility of a nuclear war is very remote...very remote. It is the demographic bomb that will mean the end of a Jewish State. Sooner or later (within 15 years ?) there will likely be one state and in 25 years a Jewish minority. One man, one vote ..the end.

Mackie I know you are not with us anymore,probably gone drinking,fishing or to beddy byes. You did that last time as well.Just when we were getting the best of you,off you went to your slumber.Typical of a cowardly gesture!! At last you gave us your antecedents.Thank you. You are an Englishman.Good to know where we stand. Danite is not pompous,but you give a good imitation of one don't you know! From the first time you came to the forums--not long ago,giving us hints as to your domicile,describing it to a warm and balmy place etc,that neither Jasmine Murphy,nor I got the "cigars"because we were not astute enough to fathom it."Tempus Fugit" Mackie,and I am off. So,better luck next time Mackie ole boy,now that we are aware...............

And Jesus said" I have come for the lost sheep of Israel, not for those of other nations" Jesus was addressing the common Jews against the claims of the Priestly elite.It was an internal Jewish debate that had nothing to do with gentiles.Sorry John but gentiles were not the center of Jesus universe.You are so "goycentric" so tribal and racist.Be progressive John and love everybody!!

The leaders of Saudi arabia,Jordan,Kuwait,Iraq,U.A.E,Egypt strongly influence what the US does and says concerning Israel trying to defend itself.USA has hurt Israel more than its helped

mackie is a nihilist, his deconstruction trip is nihilism dressed up in intellectual garb.His thinking process is ludicrous and non operable.It is jibberish, a kind of post modernist obscurantism.Regards

Of course the nefesh is positive in kabbalah. In relation to G-d and the eyn sof it is not perfect, but it is certainly spiritual. When it appears together with ruach and neshamah (other names for spirit) then it is relegated to "life force", a lesser but also essential force. Kabbalah is much more positive about the human spirit than you seem to think.

Thank you for your reply. I visited my brother who was in Israel for six months working on a contract. firstly I was afraid that something would happen but the relaxed atmosphere put me at ease. The stores were the same and just as busy as at home. When I got back I thought I would visit an Israeli site to see what people are saying but I am shocked at the level of hate. People do not realise sitting behind their computers that their hate is directed against normal human beings the same as they are, black and white. I can only say that my experience as a black person was one of friendlyness everywhere I went. I did not see or experience any racialism and to me that is the reality because all this hateful theorising counts for zilch .

Its true that in relation to G-d, the eyn sof, the nefesh is not perfect. But of course it is pure, and usually refers to the spirit of man. When it appears together with two other terms - ruach and neshamah (both terms for spirit) then it is relegated to the position of life force. In this context it does appear as "lower" than the spiritual force, but remains positive as the life of the individual. Kabbalah has a much more positive reading of the spirit than you seem to assume.

Is being in the same league as Danite and Nadav important to you. I consider every Jews, Israeli or otherwise who cannot stand up and defend the Zionist dream of a Jewish Homeland on all of its Historic homeland as not Patriotic. I find the present corruption and decline the direct result of Leftist HOOMANIST policies. I also find the wars in Lebanon and the Qassama as a result of these self same policies. Yet people like you have not learned a THING. If we give them South Lebanon we will have piece there , If we give Gaza, if we give Judea and Samaria, if we give Acco, Jaffa, Haifa and Jerusalem we will have piece. If you give you will have piece. 1. A piece of the grave 2. You must give all of Israel and JUDENREIN But day in and day out you spout that I do not understand reality. I do not-NOT YOUR RELIALITY anyway. But I can say without exaggeration that I know more about Israel and REALITY than all 3 of you combined

The continued military build up in the gaza strip needs to be stopped.I wouldn't be surprised in a few years they get chemical or biological warheads for their rockets that are getting more accurate and are going farther

So what do you know about the Khazars?Tell me LOL. Secondly if the "racial purity" you are demanding of Jews to warrant their claims in israel are the key then what does the presence of many red haired and blue eyed people amoungts the arab to their claims.You are such a hypocrite, on one hand you claim to be progressive then turn around and demand semitic racial purity form the jews.Look ballistic, the majority of those who are called arabs are heavilyt mixed with Greek, macedonian roman guallish and german and egyptian stocks which were heavily mixed with the local semitic population by the time the Arabs got their.They converted them made them speak arabic and so became arabs.Your notions of identity are shallow in the extreme.That makes short work of your protests.

So what do you know about the Khazars?Tell me LOL. Secondly if the "racial purity" you are demanding of Jews to warrant their claims in israel are the key then what does the presence of many red haired and blue eyed people amoungts the arab to their claims.You are such a hypocrite, on one hand you claim to be progressive then turn around and demand semitic racial purity form the jews.Look ballistic, the majority of those who are called arabs are heavilyt mixed with Greek, macedonian roman guallish and german and egyptian stocks which were heavily mixed with the local semitic population by the time the Arabs got their.They converted them made them speak arabic and so became arabs.Your notions of identity are shallow in the extreme.That makes short work of your protests.

From what has been written in the US, Hamas was not corrupt like other parties and that they keep their word. If they have the support of the people, and nobody will talk to them, what is left for them is more of the same. Bush called Sharon a 'man of peace', but historians don't view it that way, at all. Stop looking for pimps and get people on both sides to get to it; the problem will never be solved without support of the people; besides Hamas won't negotiate for 40+ more years, forget it.

interesting... abbas will hold a press conf with a terrorists and embrace him, but wont with Rice. does this mean he is now siding with a terrorist?? i think so. about time to treat abbas as a terrorsit. cutting off the $86mil was a good start, but not enough.

Read your post indicating all us 'morally challenged' posters have obvious nerve to address the madness going on in the ME; and I was wondering if you are the same Ms. Kohn wherein Hannah laid out your family history; a history of which if any of the allegations were true (I didn't read any post denying them), questions whether or not the level of your 'challenged morality' may be a tad low in offering an opinon on the rest of us. As I recall the post, several despicable allegations were laid with respect to your ancestors. Sorry we are not 'moral' by your standards, that is worrisome, yessiree, it is, if Hannah spoke truth. Pardon me. Geez.

There should be a withdrawal to the 67 borders regardless. If Israel doe right thing, it will be easier for Abbas to create a Palestinian state.

Billy boy,my people had the house first and got kicjked out first. Tell me were AMericans in the US before the native indians??????????????????

Now what, are we headed for nuclear war???!! Geez.

In the Kaballistic (nothing to do with ballistic,or maybe its you + Ballistic but that would be the Kathilistic) version the nefesh is a neccessary evil.Its literally I believe a serpent but metaphorically it is a neccessary evil.At a wedding the Groom smashes a glass under his feet,they call that a nefesh.It means that the perfection that is a marriage ceremony should also have something negative for only the ein sof,the endless light (G-d) is pure.(In Madonnas version it means one bad song on an album)

the fact I may not get to see the ME and feel safe trying to do it; your testimony as to what you saw seems at odds with credible allegations of bad behavior by zionists; allegations which should be investigated/ recognized. Did you travel to suicide sites learning what happened on both sides, did you go to the parents on either side and talk to them about their grief. World can't even go to Lebanon any more because of madness. Did you find out what happened to Rachel? There is madness on both sides and I am hoping some sane people will address it and quickly. The allegations of bad behavior do not coincide with what the world is being told and what you saw on vacation may not reflect of reality of the disagreement. It sure would help if videos were made of Pals living conditions for us to see. Regards, sounds like it could be a nice place.

The only way anything will change is if Israel and Abbas get together and get rid of Hamas. Then the US can step in but not with any terrorist government.

I think that you are sincere in what you say but that your leadership (politicians of all parties and the generals) has the mindset that your country can do what it wants because of its military power and the support of the USA. They want to extend Israeli sovereignty slowly throughout the WB ("facts on the ground"). I could quote the Fourth Geneva Convention, Article 49, but that might bring in the crazies like Bruriah Sarah. I think the Israeli rulers want to put off as long as possible the day when the WB and Gaza will become the Republic of Palestine because what good will that be if it's just a Bantustan, with a sham independence, subject to Israeli "police action" like now. You are an Israeli liberal, often critical of your government's actions but unwilling to question their basic assumptions. Best wishes.

Turn to thugs,ya the political game was a shell game put on by israel.You can not tease a man forever he will fight back,after you have denied him all other avenues.You might want to visit a reserve in your state and talk to the people.

pd:with friends like you my owner lost his house

You throw a man from his home and his land,he will be back,and fighting mad.And no amount of political spin and lawyer double speak will fan the flames.You can get as many PHD talking heads rewriteing history,but the home owner never forgets.

Nick, to compare a brutal dictatorship that is oppressing its own people and which believes in a holy war against the West, with the brave French who brought basic human rights to Europe, is a grave distortion of history. The only common ground is that this mullah dictatorship was prepared in France, because the French wanted to weaken the US and to have a giant business partner in the Gulf. No need to wait for a Napoleon, the Hitler of our times is in Tehran already, denying the Holocaust that happened and preparing a new one. Jews are not strangers in Judea. They are staying there with at least the same justification as Americans in Los Angeles or Poles in Wroclaw (former German Breslau) as the result of a war that the other side lost. Concerning the Nazi ties, it is well known that the Palestinians were allies of Hitler and that the Mufti demanded to extend the Holocaust to Palestine. This is the correct historical context. And Abbas is an ideological offspring of it

...any doubt?...ask...Japan, Germany...Israel pd:I love my owner...Tosefta(today on holiday)

Condi is good looking? Smart as a tack? Do you even listen to what she says? She talks without saying anything, when she gets trapped on talk shows she just babbles. She is in way over her head and is totally incompetent. Did you listen to her answer regarding wether she had seen the Iranian offer to have talks back in 2003. She didn't RECOLLECT seeing it. Can you imagine something as important as that and she isn't sure wether she did or did not see it? she can't recollect! I think she is one of these people who are book smart, have read everything, but when it comes to real life is as dumb as a nail.

John hello My last one to you. Having read this one to Ronnie,I have reached this conclusion.You are searching and have yet to find a place in your heart. I also surmise,that you were a Christian and became disenchanted, are now wavering through the many religions? If I am wrong then I apologize. In your third Para? while you praise Jesus, you then say:Why did they have to kill him? You know damn well that Jesus was a Jew first and foremost,and it was not the their Jewish brethren who killed him,but the Romans. Of course if there is a God, and we are all part of the same ONE, IN ONE GOD. True. When I read some of your posts,some of the things you present here is alien to me, and I neither understand and know anything about it. I learn by reading the posters views .What is ?nefesh? for instance??

So, Condi meets with Abbas for two hours today. Fantastic! The gist of the conversation. Abbas: "Please give us the money because the Mecca Agreement is the best that we can do." Condi: "Take your Mecca Agreement and get to the back of the bus." So much for "exploring and probing the diplomatic horizons". And the trilateral talks which are schedualed for tomorrow haven't even taken place yet. And the press isn't invited. What a useless fiasco! Maybe Olmert gets to kiss Condi instead of Abbas this time.

'and I dont exist then who is it you believe in? You mentioned Jesus like he is David Beckham or something.So if he was real,was Peter real? Paul?George? John or Ringo? You have spent so much time reading about comparative religions,how about comparative middle east countries? Well I mean if Jesus was seen walking across the water by someone who also didnt exist,who actually were the witnesses and are they the same witnesses that will watch Reading beat Man Utd????? For that would be the best miracle ever to happen to mankind.

Thanks Ballistic,everyone knows that the greatest burden is on the Palestinians here.America has bee blindly supporting Israel's criminal,racist and land grab policies forever.America acts like it knows whats best for everybody else. This was the same government that have fabricated edvidence against Iraq (WMD's), while Israel arsenal is being beefed up.So now you have about 3100 young americans have died for what,any many thousands of innocent Iraqis have died. What is the difference between a terrorist and a resistance fighter. I only wish the Palestinians can get their act together,becuase they are giving Israelis more excuses to not to have peace.Israel have come up with every little trick to grab land and control Palistinians as much as they can. I can only hope for peace, I truly believe ordinary Israelis and Palestinians do want peace and one day they will be living in peace.I do believe that the Palestinians should recognize Israel as long as they are being occupied.

No recognition of Israel, no guarantee prior agreements will be honored, no call for an end to terrorism. What a great deal. Sounds more 1948 than 2007.

And every woman on earth has the same DNA as a woman found in the Oldavi Gorge. Looks like they found Adam and Eve. Very cool stuffr there lady.

...as the Israelies do. love your people, declare The State the Palestina,,work hard, plant trees...and wait (maybe the best solution for two little peoples is go toghether)...less land less work...Jerusalem?...Jerusalem is Jews, Christian and Muslims Century XXI carnaval...only good for tourism... pd:love

Though most of us sit in darkness but that is because of faily to put the shilling in the meter.Money is bad,light is good?.I personally dont believe the messiah has come yet or even will.I think its a perfect concept for the instantly gratified. I also believe that it was one of the most brilliant merchandize and branding stories in the history of man (or product).Icons certainly R Us.Why take responsibility? Its too hard.He will take responsibility.You can sit there and watch footie on Television unless you are of course a Tottenham supporter and going to synagogue on Yom Kippur and Rosh Hashana is mandatory.Tallis's are blue and white too you know. For Jews if we dont do all the responsibility,we are sent to the toilet which is worse than pugatory and all those other hellish elements you came up with.The devil wears Prada and a big cross of course while the nefesh simply wears alligator shoes.

I see nothing wrong with a seperate Jewish State, just as I see nothing wrong with seperate Muslim states. Why should it be a problem? You don't call the Muslim on having apartheid states, and they do have exactly that. Sounds like a double standard to me. YOUR MOVE

It seems that today is the day for the cretins and the morally challenged. The idea that a large number of people still think that there is such a thing as racial purity is beyond me, but then it must have something to do with being cretins and morally challenged. I wonder why so many of them feel the need to be vulgar. Le'hitraot, Kath

Do you think bonehead Bush will attack Iran listening to the same fools that caused us to go to Iraq based on lies? If so, what do you see as the result? Pakistan, Iran, China, Russia?

Yada...yada...yada...the fact is that the creation of Israel was a monstrous crime born of US domestic politics, holocaust guilt and WWII hubris. We are past the beginning of the end of this terrorist state. There was a time when there was a very slim chance for a two state solution but the crimes of Israel and the US have made that very remote. There will never be peace in this region till there is justice for the Palistinians...end of story.

Howdy Nick; In the first place, I did not say that the PA is a terrorist organization. I said that the PA is currently being controlled by an internationally-recognized terrorist organization, i.e., Hamas. Second, it is legitimate for an occupied people to resist their occupation provided that they are willing to take the consequences of their decision, but it is not legitimate for them to deliberately violate the rules of war in doing so (like resorting to terrorism for example). I don't understand your first question. How can anyone "force freedom" on somebody else? The Palestinians are being asked to accept their state on 100% of the Gaza Strip and 92% of the West Bank in accordance with the conditions for an Israeli withdrawal as specified in UNSCR 242. For your second question, "..., can you name me any modern secular democracy that was not born out of violence?" How about San Marino? In a less jocular vein, how about Canada and Australia? No wars there as I recall.

you are correct. unfortunately members of my family were members of the nazi party. I am therefore very aware that before the killing of Jews started in Germany that first Germans had to dehumanize Jews by describing them as subhumans as cretins and various other degrading terms. My note to Marilyn was written tongue in cheek. She shouldn't generalize nor should she use such inflamatory words in the future.

KUTW I always read Paul's responses.They do not bother me in the slightest.They are short,to the point and no problem whatever. I wish some people would stop this.It makes me laugh,complaints or not,they still read his posts.isn't that funny? Sent you a post the other day,which didn't surface.Better not repeat it in case haaretz stops it?but I will.It was an inocuous one about the arrests in Spain of the terrorists. Have a blessed night

Most Jews haven't heard of Nefesh Ha Elokis. Most Jews know very little about Judaism. Even less about Kabbalah... I've been a lazy student of comparative religion for 3 decades. I particularly like the Baha'i faith. Though I claim adherence to NO religion. Mainly because I don't actually exist..... and neither do you. Or any of us. So what's the point of having "a religion" about a collection of people who at a subatomic level are 999.99999999%$ nothingness and the .000000000001% left only comes into existence for infinitessimal femtoseconds at a time? huh?

You're making my head spin. I always liked the Khazar thing. If only for comic relief. Pat, my other half, often wonders if I'm traveling in another universe anyway. We all deserve our basic human rights, whether Palestinian, Schizophrenic or other.

PAUL HARRIS IS NOT RIGHT DESPITE THE NUMBER OF CAPS HE USES. HE IS JUST OBNOXIOUS WHATEVER HE SAYS. THE RIGHTNESS OR WRONGNESS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE CAP'S. (though it leads many here to conclude he makes up in volume for that which he lacks in debating points)

Dear KUTW, the point here isn't right or wrong. We are here for intellectual exchange. This forum reflects a big room with many people in it. Everyone is stating their opinion and idea but all of a sudden somebody runs in the middle yelling their point of view, it is more likely that person will not be taken seriously, regardless of how right they are. It's basic human courtesy, you know. Paul would have a much more powerful voice if he were respectful of others. That's just the way the civilized world works.

I studied it from a Jew actually. Who patiently explained that despite my not having one..... it did not (somehow) mean I was less important in God's eyes that he (a veritable part of God's Divinity itself)! - but rather that we had different responsibilities. Nice of him. And desperately patronising. And wrong. I don't KNOW ANYTHING - provide my evidence for ANYTHING to the contrary of what I "KNOW" today and I will change my mind - but I'm inclined to think we are ALL a part of God, and Jesus had it right. We are all Son's of God. (which was a very threatening line of teaching to some people at the time - and why they had to kill him).

John Stop being so puerile.You are getting a lot of attention and this should please you enormously. That aside,have you stopped to think that maybe Paul may have some eyesight problem?Has it accurred to you and others? For his sake I hope he is fine. A plant?okay what sort of a plant? Tomato,Potato,what Mackie? Just shut up,because you have also reverted to explitives,to a fellow respondent here.Not very gentlemanly.What I feel by your responses today & getting much attention is,making compensation from the ones you missed at Rosner's. By the way,I did not stay there too long seeing how you felt.So,I left pronto!No point in sending responses and waiting needlessly. Stop being disengenuous and no fibs please. Hey,haven't you had your drinky poos yet? Have a nice day Mackie

...Be happy...come to sing and dance with us... pd:Agga Nagila?...Love.

Like most of other type of addictions, first reaction is denyal !!! I totally sympathize with your current disease and do hope that in the near future you will capable of a civilized dialogue. P.S. In Brasil we do recommed passion fruit juice in order to calm down !!! Peace - Salam - Shalom - Paz

Kath, you are correct about racial purity. I just finished a book "The Journey of Man" by Spencer Wells that traces man's distant history through genetic science. Every single male human can be traced to ONE man who lived 60,000 years ago in Africa (he proved this through mitochondrial DNA or mDNA coding). Every person alive today is descended from him! Realizing that we are all siblings, how rediculous does all this meyham looks? hehe...

The way one loses credibility is those not asking and getting answers to pertinent questions! Sounds like you have kinda admitted there is a tad of piggbacking here, right, that you don't wanna discuss. However, when you make allegations based on 'rights', those 'rights' need to be examined, don't you agree? If you deny that, you have no credibility. BTW; whatever gave you the idea I am a "he", I am not! Regards.

Capitals do not make a true false. Paul Harris is right, however many capitals he uses.

Hi there all. Just a note to say i returned from Israel two days ago. Great shopping and lots of happy people of all races and surprisingly many religions too. How any one can say that Israel is a racist country is beyond me. There is absolutly no discrimination anywhere that you go and I'll let you know that I am not a white person and I felt completely at home there. In fact there is more of a racial mixture there than many places I have been. At the airport a party of Arabic people were in the queue one of them had lost something and the security people could not help them enough. In fact there was a lot of laughter and patience from everybody. Obviously there a lot of people here on this site trying to stir up trouble and hatred. It is so sad. They really do not deserve any attention

Pearly white. You studied the nefesh (on google probably) but not the concept of what is a jew and how it relates to a race. Go back to the drawing board John. You missed some main points.

We've seen this play before...So when will you talk to the Palestinians? Excuses, excuses... I suggest not talking to the Palestinians until they win the Super Bowl!

Why discuss anything else/ The headline says it all. The US would NOT DARE do anything that is not in accord with Israel and its zionist appologists in Congress , AIPAC and the "fatalistic" christian right.....

We were all fighting each other until you showed up (not sure where Tosefta would stand though,our yes I do). Nothing pulls us together more.So I want to thank you from deep in my Nefesh heart. Its amazing what Google can do for someone's knowledge,doesnt it? Look I also probably have a list of a range of books you might like.They are well circulated these days in dark cellars and arab bazaars.You know just to increase your knowledge base.

Danite hello I came here in hopes to see if Nadav was going to respond to you on yesterday's as promised. But not here as yet. On the subject of colour and ethnic background in Britain:The British are one of the most mongrel nations in Europe.They had been occupied by so many diverse people it is ridiculous.And I am not talking of the Anglo Saxons in particular.Good example are the "Celts" particularely the "Welch" who are not only swarthy,but have yet to meet a true blue eyed blond among them.They tend to be dark haired and brown eyed. Additionally not mentioning the present immigrants who have come from the India and Pakistan not to mention the Africans. Finally Danite,I think racial purity may be a myth.We are all to a degree more or less than others "MONGRELS" In my family for generations all have blue and green eyes,fair skinned and some even "ginger".What is more,we are the remnants from the "Spanish Inquisition" and ,belonged to the "Aristocratic" side...

Dear Kath, my very first post on this site was to paul re the caps (foolish me, I thought I hadn't intended that). Now I have learned to just skip over his posts without reading. As soon as I see ALL CAP I look at the name and if it's PAUL'S (or Indrajaya's for that matter) I just skip it. The point is that we are all exchanging ideas and for me I am very interested to know what everyone has to say. But there is no point in reading an obnoxious posting that lacks any credibility, nevertheless the basic courtesy in human interaction. I just thought to point that out...Btw, I always read yours :) as I have always learned a thing or two!

Paul is SHOUTING at everybody. It is rude. And using ALL CAPS is generally accepted at being the height of poor online etiquette. My upbraiding him for it is NOT personal. Merely an attempt to get him to lower his blood pressure. Either that - or he is a plant. Designed to raise mine! HAHAHA

We wont have to call her , next holocaust, she will be front row screaming "Juden Raus! mach shnell!, das ist der Palestinianer Heimat"

and Ive never hoird of such a thing as the Nefesh Ha Elokis but I will definately look into it. I guess its so much easier being christian.You actually have time to look into our religion and tell us where we are going wrong. For you helping an old lady across the street makes you a good christian but for us to be a good jew it takes a lifetime of Talmud and Torah (Im not up to that particular nefesh yet but I am getting there). This attack on Israel is pretty low though,Im not sure what Nefesh you come under but Im sure its listed somewhere. These poor bloody Palestinians,they have tried so hard to be good and decent and look us jews all we do is opress them.Jesus,Im starting to feel guilty.

I'M FINE NO NEED!!! *&(*& TO GO SEE A QUALIFIIIIIIEDED &%$&^%$ PHYSSSSICIAN AT ALL~!!! NO SIRRSEEEEYY!~. I AM PERFECTLY SANE! How about you?

Now he is bringing up the Khazar thing (of which he knows nothing) and is insulting to ashkenazim on a racial-hatred basis.Now we see his tru colours.Yet another phony "progressive" hiding his anti semitms under the cloak of "Palestinian" human rights.The ashkenazim are as jewish as any other set of jews,just ask every euro trash nation that oppressed them.

The operative word previously used is thwarted; as in nada, nechevo. Hamas has agreed to respect past arrangements. It is true; in Arabic respect is a synonym for honor.

You know who you are: those who react to the word "Jew" with a snarl of hatred and envy. Amazing isn't it that we stupid Jews are so fascinating to you. Why don't you find yourselves a more worthy place to spill your bile and your hatred? We know that what you are best at is hating, corroding your arteries and bringing the end of your life near. On second thoughts, stick around, do more hating and I wish you an unpleasant end.

First up. Any post that contains the words Irving and Final Solution - raises red flags round here. Second up... the rules of the game here are as follows:- 1. Come up with an intelligent analysis based on the observation that Judaism is a religion, and you will be told Zionism and Israel are secular ideas. 2. Observe that Jews are a race... drawing conclusions thereform, and you will be told you can "convert" to being a Jew. So. It's like playing chess against an opponent with two queens to your one. Tough to beat. But a rhetorical challenge nonetheless. Good luck. And remember... THEY don't want the PROBLEM conceptually solved. That is the LAST THING they want. Can you imagine... a post settlement Middle East in wich they can't bribe USA for 8,000,000$ a day. In which they are no longer centre of global attention. The global archetypal victim etc. Heaven forbid!

Dear Herr Mackie--just some slight editing of your post to ensure consistency and accuracy. "Try again. The Muslims are NOT that stupid. They`ll kick the can down the road for another 5-7 years until British-Muslims outnumber you lot in England. Then, either the MASK will come off your faux democracy, or you`ll have to find another way out of your predicament. Tick. Tock. Tick. Tock. In the meantime they`re busy making babies at three times the rate you lot are." ahh, that's better cheers, dov

may exchange "genuine" for 'real', how is that. Issue is ripe for discussion cause there is a group of folks over there who are causing a tad of trouble and claim that the holy land belongs to them based on an inheritance. Well, when you claim an inheritance, you must provide evidence that you are part of the class of beneficiaries. What is foreign about that? Are you trying to pull a Howard Stern on us, who refuses DNA tests on the baby who stands to inherit to stave off the inheritance to that family? Sounds awful similar!

HISSSSS!!! LOL..I just noticed your quote wasnt Mandela's but Ahmadinejad's! Having read your posts throughout, I didn't think you'd be that sneaky! So much for the trust! NO more soup for you. NEXT!

That attempt to duck the question was the LAMEST I have yet read here. You are ON the hook. Now answer the question. What do YOU THINK about the Nefesh Ha Elokis that YOU LOT are supposed to have, compared with the crappy Animal Soul we lesser mortals are encumbered with? Well? P.S. Nietzsche is spelled like this.

Hello Mackie On Paul's usage of uppercase letters. Firstly no one knows why he uses them.Secondly take into concideration that his responses are rather short,unlike some who tend to send pageful long missives in uppercase letters.On occasion I have done the same,pure laziness. To some it may look like shouting,but not with Paul. Leave dear Paul in peace,he does not deserve censure.Whatever you advocate will not deter Haaretz from putting out his responses I assure you.I get a bit annoyed when some here constantly refer to this subject.Grow up,and try to be a bit more tolerant. Thank goodness that Paul doesn't give a damn one way or another for being the object of ridiculefools the lot of you. Let me point out that Paul is not a plant as you put it. Haaretz would hardly sink to such low level... Have a good day and "drinks ahoy" Boys!!

Dear Mr. John your posts clearly show a high degree of pure hate and a desire to insult and verbaly attack whoever do not agree with political orientation. Without any irony and in the benefit of any individual close to you. I strongly suggest that you should meet a qualified physician.

Forgive me, I'm not trying to be sexist. The quote comes from The Arab-Israeli Reader; Laqueur and Rubin. It my "bible" on documentation from the Biluim Manifesto - 1882 to Bill Clinton's Summarization - Jan 2001 We have both been here and active since then. Regards

Howdy John; The Saudi Arabians depend on oil revenue just as much as the world depends on oil. Besides, Saudi Arabia doesn't have it all. The top four oil-exporting nations are: 1) Saudi Arabia, 2) Russia, 3) Norway, and 4) Iran. Most of the oil that the U.S. imports comes from elsewhere like Mexico, Venezuela, and Nigeria because they're closer. Once the crude is on a tanker, the oil is bought and sold on the world market. The U.S. produces about 80% of her needs domestically and that could be increased if we could get rid of the environmentalists and their law suits. As the price of oil increases, alternatives like electricity, hydrogen, and ethanol become more competative. The age of the gasoline-fired, internal-combustion engine is dying. It may not happen within my lifetime, but it is inevitable within the next century. The oil-exporting nations had better start investing in other businesses soon or nobody is going to want to buy what they have for sale.

That's the SECOND TIME you have been fooled by one of my quotes. A couple of days back you fell for my "Iran prevents couple from moving to Makaramshah for beng too Jewish" - remember? You asked for a link. I replied it was a sarcastic rip off from the story above about some poor Arab couple in Israel. The censors didn't post my clarification to you - sorry about that. This last quote is actually from Mahmood Ahmedinejad - substituting Apartheid for Zionism. He speaks beautifully wouldn't you agree? And it's even better in the original, flowing, poetic Farsi language.... You, too, keep up the good fight - but remember not to lead with your chin.

If Arab Israelis can be in the Knesset, then why shouldn't Hamas reciprocate and appoint some Israelis to important posts.

There is a certain amount of room for religion to play a part in creating a final solution. When I read from the Quran, for example, as a Christian, I see a different interpretation of the text than the common one, especially with regard to sections referring to 'People of the Book'. I interpret this to include Muslims, Jews and Christians. It does not say "People of the Books" as far as I know. It also says that there is a remnant in Judaism and Christianity which still follow the right path. To build on this area of commonality may make it possible to reintroduce these scriptures to Islam and establish a foundation on which Jews and Christians are reconciled. This could be the 'New Jerusalem' spoken in Isaiah.

Seems like you are doing just fine on your own, yessiree; I expect the rah rah Israeli BS tag team to appear shortly; they usually do when they find a 'difficult' anti-zionist BS poster! I was kind of hoping to see a good answer to your questions, which have been asked before; guess there is no response from zionists; they whip out the 'nazi' defense, well worn. Keep on blogging. Regards.

Hello Dearest Kaff' Rosner can kissmyarse! I noticed you, too, were begging for a lighter censorship touch that day. No. I was NOT asking for my email back. As I remember, I posted one of my anon emails for THEM to answer ME as to what would be the criteria for selection to write an opinion piece. I have one tentatively titled "A philosophical treatise on self-hate, Jewish and gentile" or words to that effect. If the Pals breed like wabbits they will outnumber you. More to the point... if the Israeli Awabs bweed like wabbits they will force constitutional change.... and the "democratic" facade will have to come off. Under which will be revealed a scowling Apartheid face not unlike this repulsive example. http://www.jewishjournal.com/images/photos/lieberman.02.20.04.jpg I will stop denigrating Israel when she stops behaving like a fascist schoolyard bully. OK? Love'NKisses JM

Who is real? Was William the Conquerer real?? Were the Normans and the Vikings real? How many Italians arrived in Ellis Island or Orientals in LA???? What national desire did the Palestinians have before Israel was formed???

Wow!!! Is this entire thread embarassing or what? All started by "Mariloyn" a rhetoric-filled young lass from down under who can barely spell her own name and is obsessed with the word "cretin". Congratulations Mariloyn, your tabloid view of the world has indeed insprired the "cretinous" (is that a word?) among us. peace, dov

Danite, I disagree with you on your post. As long as the zionists are urging the world and US to whack Iran based on Israeli paranoia, the int'l community has a right to speak to the underlying madness that may make that happen. It is unfortunate that you do not agree. However, our soldiers are the ones that go to war in the ME, not yours, and right now the mad hatters in the US gov't may whack Iran at Israel's behest. Better to get used to your madness being discussed by the int'l community as it will continue. An argument by zionists is that Pals should not have a right of return cause not all were Pals; why should that claim not extend to zionists now claiming a right to the land? Seems what is sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander. You may not like what John is saying, but he has a right to say it and his statements do have merit whether you deny their legitimacy or not.

There are people in the land that you occupy, they are called Palestinians. I am not talking about those that are outside I am only talking about those that live in the land that IDF soldiers control. I believe that there are some well intentioned people on your side, and I question what have the Palestinians done wrong other than been born to Palestinian parents in the same land that many Jews have been born or immigrated to? Aren't they still human beings who are supposed to have equal rights? If yes then why do I feel that Israel's hidden policy is to over depress Palestinians to the state where they are forced to leave and go to another country (which may or may not accept them)? For it is not in Israel's interest that there be a Palestinian State, as can be seen by the daily building of settlements in the west bank and the wall and taking farms and all that. At the same time Israel does not want to naturalize the Palestinians, so what should they do?

There are people in the land that you occupy, they are called Palestinians. I am not talking about those that are outside I am only talking about those that live in the land that IDF soldiers control. I believe that there are some well intentioned people on your side, and I question what have the Palestinians done wrong other than been born to Palestinian parents in the same land that many Jews have been born or immigrated to? Aren't they still human beings who are supposed to have equal rights? If yes then why do I feel that Israel's hidden policy is to over depress Palestinians to the state where they are forced to leave and go to another country (which may or may not accept them)? For it is not in Israel's interest that there be a Palestinian State, as can be seen by the daily building of settlements in the west bank and the wall and taking farms and all that. At the same time Israel does not want to naturalize the Palestinians, so what should they do?

In my book,you know that book well John,Anyone who thinks Reading will beat Man U on Saturday has little credibility but if you are in for a philosophical conversation Im up for it.Neitzche? Kant? Heidegger? Hegel? Who?

John, what a beautiful quote! And what a shame that it will no unnoticed! :( I am also a follower of the likes of Mandela, Gandhi, MLK (non-violent peace). But sadly (except for a handful of sane people) most of these posters are advocates of violence and desrtuction. On both side, with their rantings of "my God is better than your God"....and if you throw them any reasonable arrgument, they throw a tantrum that would shame a two-year-old. I cannot tell you how depressed I get when I read these posts and realize, my Gosh we are a LOOOOONG way from peace! Keep up the spirit....

Do I look like I need assistance swatting off these flies? ;) Thanks anyhow. Tiresome as they are. P.S. Nobody has sussed out my sneaky M.Ahmedinejad search and replace "Apartheid" for "Zionism" quote in post #204. Mandela might have said same. But didn't. What a hoot! These people are so thick! Where are all the smart chooz? Certainly not in Israel!

Dear Jeff, Thank you for your answer. You make a god job of defending the blockade of Palestine. And yes, the UN does pass economic sanctions on governments, but if they do not permit a man to subsist then these sanctions would be in contravention of Article 2 of the UDHR. We do not have any figures to know what effect the blockade will have on Palestinian life expectancy, which I imagine is already low because of the actions of Israel over 40 years. I would differ on your labeling of the PA as a terrorist organisation. They are fighting an occupation so that makes them freedom fighters. You also say that Israeli violence is in response to Palestinian violence. I would disagree with that assessment too. It is Israel that carries the can for that. However, there were two follow up questions I posed in my original posting that I would like you to respond to. The first is this, can you name any modern secular democracies that had freedom forced on them in the same way that Palestine is being oppressed today? Second, can you name me any modern secular democracy that was not born out of violence? I think the two questions are different. The first is to try and see if democracy is something that has to happen from within, if, that is, it is to take root. The second is that freedom is a bottom up process, as those at the top are not going to share their rights and privileges with an underclass, so fighting is an inevitable part of the progression towards democracy. If one or other of my suppositions hold, then what we are witnessing from the Palestinians is a natural progress towards full-blown democracy. In fact, can anyone fully treasure their freedoms without fighting for them? Which of course makes the blockade, and the rejection of Hamas the Palestinians legal representatives, anti-democratic.

Well, er, I suppose it depends on what you mean when you say accept "converts". From the nonsense that went on with Yaakov Sullivan, a convert, who disagrees with the zionist madness, it certainly opened one's eyes to veracity of that statement. His posts were well reasoned, but because he did not tow the party line, he was attacked and still is like shark meat in a tank. If it is only a religion, we don't need a country for ONE religion, what precedent does that set? Jesus, who Paul Harris claims is a Roman myth, was undoubtedly a very dark skin man otherwise he could not have been hidden in Egypt looking like Tad Hunter. Paul Harris insists Jesus was a Roman myth. I do believe he existed, but probably did not take the stand on issues during his lifetime as are attributed to him by writers many, many years after his death. Regards.

If the so called Barak Give away went further than etc why is it one of the three conditions, (past agreements) for Hamas to recognise.

The accusation of pomposity generally follows the realization that you have NO WORDS or IDEAS to counter what I have to say. Tough titty! (as we English like to say). No cigar. If you give up trying to explain your untenable national zionist policies and positions, just say so. Giving up the indefensible ain't a crime. We're here to convert you to our way of thinking. And once converted... ALL will be forgiven. (no eye for an eye stuff in our club).

You make many assumptions about my beliefs Boycott. I am here to talk for myself and I'll tell you that I don't believe much that I am told. I don't believe that extending settlements is 'security'. I do believe that some of the settlements are illegal. I don't believe that the Apartheid notion of Jews not being allowed to live among Palestinians is fair or justified. I know that the country of Israel very much wants an independent palestine.

Hi there Mackie Here we are together again,and I see you are having a field day.Happy? I'll bet.Better than being peeved for not getting your posts put out when on "Rosner's Domain" remember? I responded to explain the reason,but mine too did not surface. Nevermind,you win some and lose others.What puzzled me at the time was your asking for your e-mail back? odd that... I am bound to remind you subject of "demographics".If the palis continue to procreate at this rate,it will do them more harm in the long run,but not to Israel mein herr,(mon cher) Mackie. I take a philosophical view on the matter and say:Que sera,sera,que dices mi amigo?Si,ou No? Israel will continue to prosper despite all the vicissitudes past and present. Now,be a good fellow and stop denigrating Israel.Not conducive to peace and progress. Cheers

You know what they say about men who drive large cars, John? It's the same for blokes who post in nothing but caps.

Can a an Arab or jamaican ever be truly british? They arent blond, they dont look like Britons.If a jew cant be Jewish because he is blond how does that work for Arabs in britain.Despite the occasional swarthy type showing britains Roman past, 90% of britons are either Celts, germans or Viking in their origins.Please explain if you dare.

Are you referring to the Nefesh Ha Elokis by any chance? Would you like to have a philosophical conversation about that? huh? The rest of your post? Sorry? Right over my head. What were you talking about? Don't be evasive. Spit it out. We're all adults here. --------------- P.S. Hello Censors. Why did you edit my perfectly polite, level-headed, intelligent reply to Ben J Abo. it was nothing more or less than any concerned health professional (mental health included) would have said. Kindly report it. I wanted to have a nice chat with Ben about that.

John is discussing. I hardly think asking the question qualifies one to be a Nazi, as you suggest. The same ole arguments to stifle discussion of zionist issues is playing out, here and elsewhere. The questions John raises are legitimate and have been raised before. Has nothing to do with Nazism; it has to do with who are the real Jews and who are the real Pals?

Well miss marilyn, next Holocaust we'll just call you up before letting any Jews into the JEWISH HOMELAND. What's your number?

Ernie, where do you get your facts on that assertion? Regards.

you have caught Paul red handed in his Israeli BS sling; only Hannah commented on it, but it appears others know of the OBVIOUS discrepancy, all while zionists yell that the Pals seeking return have brought in cousins, relatives and others not tied to the land. It would seem reasonable that those who accuse the Pals of the same should bony up to the plate themselves. That is only fair. Somehow those Ashkenazis seem to be hanging out there like a hang nail, yessiree, they are. No rah rah zionist supporter ever really answered Hannah when she laid it out, but she sent interested folks to google the Khozars, and you find some interest in those sites if you have not already discovered the same. Regards.

Sorry your side lost the wars in 1945 and then after the founding of the Jewish State several times. You just can't keep us Jews in our place no matter how hard you try. And John "dear" you can't shut us up either.

because he is a plant. Paid on a clever contract he wrote, by the Capital Letter! These posts are specifically engineered to "draw fire" from we level-headed Gentiles and reasonable humanist Jews, so as to leave the coast clear, when we're tired of the booolsheeet - and let the less idiotic zionists have the last word. I say... ignore him, and don't shoot your rhetorical shots off until you can see the whites of their (Mmmmm...strangely???) Zionist Blue Eyes.... LOL.

Thanks for the comments.Complexity is not gabe1s strong point,he cannot understand the concept of being able to "walk and chew gum " at the same time.Regards

until there is a true civil war,shooting or otherwise this poltical papering over of Palestinain differences with the help of the stage of Mecca will do no good in the process of seeking a permanent peace.......what good has come to te Jews from Mecca?

Exactly, Abraham. You in Israel are oblivious to the very dark clouds that are gathering to the East.

take your snotty englih crap and shove it.Go play Lord Ha Ha somewhere else, we dont owe you any explanations.You are another dime a dozen euro flake with a serious Jewish problem.

Howdy John; Judaism is a religion not a race although there is a tendency for those Jews of Hebrew descent to preserve their paternal lineage (but not maternal lineage). Judaism has always accepted converts of any race. If you're looking for a very strong tie between religion and ethnicity, try the Druze. They stopped taking in converts after the first 50 years of their existence in the 8th Century. Ever since, the only way to be a Druze is to be born a Druze. I agree about Jesus. He was probably dark-skinned with black hair and beard and with brown eyes. Those depictions of Jesus as a blond, blue-eyed, Scandinavian are absurd, but then, there are depictions of Jesus in Brazil which show him as being a black African.

Your ancestors didnt have to drive aborigines off their land, it was already done for them by the time they arrived.Despite the fact that the aborigines never posed any threat to australia they were shunted off and dumped on.its good that australia has vast chunks of land to give to people who dont have rockets sitting 10 miles from 70 % of autralias popualtion and infrastructure.Arent you capable of making the most primiary distinctions between things, the case of australia and israel has nothing to do with each other.All of australia belongs to them, the whites never had any connection to australia before they got there.Therefore all white australians need to leave NOW.Got that marilyn "the good settler"?

The ultimate result is that it was beneficial to be exported and brought to the America's. Life expectancy was longer, and they certainly had a better chance for improvement than they had in Africa. Africa is AIDS rampant, America is comparatively free. Another benefit is that UN troops aren't stationed in the US raping innocent young maidens as they do on the African Continent. Off hand it's hard to think of any nation that hasn't profited from slavery, including the U.S., Britain, France, Belgium, Rome, Persia and so forth. It is still a profitable manner of trade. Saudi Arabia is prominent in utilizing slave labor. Don't blame a select few for the doings of many, that's discrimination at it's worst.

I'm sure that, had you been around in 1947, David, you would have thought the UN land division proposals perfectly satisfactory and fair. After all, Jews and the Jewish agency owned 7% of Mandated Palestinian land, yet they were to be allocated 60% of the territory. Curious the Arabs found this unacceptable, and reacted violently, isn't it?

John, were you watching the news when King Abdullah summoned Cheney's arse to SA and in a hurry and he hopped Air Force II, went stayed 4 hours and flew back?? Bush's people said it was the King saying Bush jammed up ME, particularly Iraq, and that if shit continued down hill, he was gonna support his people in Iraq, but it was obviously much more than that cause he could have called. Cheney does not 'hop to' for nothing!

Oppression and aggression are not compatible with belief in God, human dignity and justice. The Apartheid regime is a clear example of oppression, and its fundamental nature represents an actual and permanent threat. ....its continued existence is a continuation of threat and oppression, and it would not exist without threat and aggression, and is not inherently able to survive in an atmosphere of peace and tranquility. Take a good look at the bullying powers of the world. When it comes to supporting the Apartheid regime, they recognize no red line and boundaries for justice, human rights and human dignity. The usurper Apartheid regime is the point of convergence of all of the corruption and injustices of the corrupt and bullying powers. [...] Nelson Mandela - upon his release from 27 years in jail.

More Tire Tracks on the Road Kill of Peace. Any delusion anyone in the world had that the weasel worded mealy mouthed statements of Rice about wanting Peace in the Middle East should be finished off by this. The goal of the Bush junta is to turn the entire middle east into one giant and profitable war. "Actions speak louder than words." - President Theodore Roosevelt

Dear Jonathon, I think your description of the Iranian mullahs as medieval is misplaced. Jacobin perhaps but not medieval. Their revolution has much in common with European political evolution. Like the French of 1789, they deposed a king who abused his people. Like the French revolutionaries, they take two steps forward and one back in their march towards democracy. Like the French they thumb their noses at the status quo. Let?s just hope they don?t find a Napoleon. Then we really will be in trouble. As for your comment about Abbas being a Holocaust denier, I find that ironic. Israel?s ethnic cleansing of Palestinians is strikingly similar in concept, if not yet in scale, to the German Wehrmacht?s when they invaded Russia in 1941, who overnight, according to the military historian Anthony Beavour, became a semi-criminal organization. Israel?s deliberate flouting of the first 13 articles of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights is a rejection of the experience of the Holocaust, which in effect makes Israel a Holocaust denier. For you cannot divorce cause from effect. The UDHR lays down clearly what those causes are, and Israel is in breech of the most serious ones. But the breaches of the UDHR are a far more serious issue than holocaust denial. It is these breaches that make Israel and its search for lebensraum a world problem.

Did you clean and press the brown shirt today John and lay it out with all the other paraphenalia? How about the hair style? A swoop across the forehead perhaps? What about some old movies of speeches and maybe throwing one 'The Great Dictator" in for laughs????? And the accent.The Man didnt say 'Down Road' with a Yorkshire twang,it was more Austrian sounding.And when you click your heels please look down,your laces on both feet are both tied together.

I know all that. And more. But can't be bothered fishing out the "picture cards" today. This crowd today is reasonably tame and harmless, and can easily be trumped and swatted off with 8's and 9's. The Big Guns only need digging out when the heavy hitters show up to viciously defend some particularly egregious bit of ziofascist nonsense - such as a mass slaughtering of Palestinian or Lebanese children or ... the bombing of somebody else's civilian nuclear facilities. Then the nasty Home Truths stuff will come out. Until then... dry powder. ;)

Again, how does what was done in the past affect the morality of actions done now? Doesn't every action stand on its own? Does the wrong another has done excuse the wrong you do?

"The right of the Jewish people to the land of Israel is eternal and indisputable ... therefore, Judaea and Smaaria will not be handed to any foreign administration: between the Sea and the Jordan there will be only Israeli sovereignty." A version posted on the GOI web site when last they reigned contained a section on self-congratulations for having thwarted the Barak "give-away." Only 2 Arab States recognize Israel. Hamas believes it has reason for wanting to be in the majority with recognition. Once the Beirut Declaration is fulfilled with complete Arab recognition and cooperation, there will be regional influence and incentive for Hamas to do the same. 2 of the 3 requests are fulfilled. Next on the agenda is the issue of cross kidnapping. 1001 Palestinians (including Barghouti) for the tank gunner and even that number is low.

This DNA business is BS and you know it and so does everybody else. Where did you get the DNA from? How are some Jews black and coal and others white as snow? Where did you get the DNA from the original Jews to test? How many zionists took the test, all of em? Get real man. I am probably closer in DNA than you to the original Jews. I guess airlifting the Ethiopians was to give some credence to your claims, eh? Piggybackers? Usurpers?

If it was wrong for the others to exile Jews, why was it not equally wrong for Jews to exile others? It is not good form to excoriate others for acting as you do.

I am not Israeli. I am not Jewish. I am probably unconsciously prejudiced in many ways on many subjects, including Israel/Palestine, so you may be right to some extent. However, my point is that you, as an Israeli, feel very, very defensive about your country because you believe your leaders when they tell you that you are involved in an existential struggle with your neigbours and that warfare is vital to protect you. Your leaders say that extending settlements in the WB, even into the Jordan Valley, is necessary for your security. You call that "defense". I question their motives and call it "colonialism". I do not believe that they want a truly independent Palestine. You believe your leaders because it would be too much of a risk not to. You are not a fool. I apologise for implying that you are one by using the word "gullible".

I don't disagree at all with what you said about Condi. In fact, if you reread my post, I point out that she is carrying out what Bush is saying, not necessarily what she agrees with, so we are in agreement on that point. As for the Saudis, King Abdullah summoned Cheney, who stayed only a few hours, and has expressed his, well, let's just say, 'hope' that the US will cut out with the BS and get to the Pal issue so moderates will not be jeopardized. The visit was well advertised on US TV stations. US relationship with Saudis, even after 9/11, is more important than zionist demand to keep slurping up Pal land, don't you think? Anyway, thanks for the post and we will ALL see what unfolds while everybody 'guesses' what will unfold, since none of us knows for sure. Regards.

The ethnic cleansing of Palestine was done before the country was allowed to exist - and the Palestinians weren't even asked. In fact the Brits. and the new UN forces watched on as the Israeli army , Irgun, Stern and Haganah terrorist groups tortured, murdered and drove off nearly the entire population. As for the arabs all attacking - it has never happened in the history of Israel. Pappe makes a compelling case that the only people who ever helped the Palestinians were some Iraqis, Jordan collaborated and sold out the Palestinians and Egpyt were not any better. In the meantime Israel already had the only actual army in the whole neighbourhood and the poor Palestinians were not even aware of the trauma that they were about to suffer.

Typical paul harris nonsense. What possible impact can what the British have done in the past have to do with the morality of current Israeli actions? Where morality is concerned, every deed stands on its own.

YES IT ALL EXISTS BUT YOU DONT KNOW AN Y OF IT . JUST AS YOU KNOW NOTHING ABOUT THE ORIGINS OF CHRISTIANITY !!

Seems to indicate that your Sephardim and their indigenous folk are of precisely the same stock. Any comments? (And interestingly, that mitichondrial DNA testing of Ashkenazim tells a different story). P.S. It's a struggle to read your ALL CAPS POSTS. Be a nice boy and join the rest of us in "lower caps world".

and you make a good point. However, the issue was looking at who was involved in financing the trade. Regards.

HI there Abraham; read your post and it is a second in time; did you notice what happened to US economy after 9/11; we are still recovering. Unless zionists get to a peace deal, I do not believe you will be crowing in the near future about a stock market, nosirree you won't. Regards.

DELUSIONAL! Saudia Arabia are sitting on all the oil the Israeli Sugar Daddy (USA) needs to stick in the SUV's of her peons. Saudi Arabia has USA by the short and curlies ANY TIME they chose to push back after months of Zionists pushing their luck. Like... about now.

believe you have excised a raw nerve here that Hannah, not on today, had fully vetted. For those believing in the good book, the bible, written after the fact by Jews turned Christian, Revelations says 'beware of the slander of those who say they are Jews, but are not, but are of the synagogue of Satan". Well, that suggests to Christians that not everybody who claims to be Jewish is in fact a beneficiary of the promise, but rather are attempting to usurp the largesse with bombs and bullets and now even nukes. Where is God and whose side is he on? As for Jesus, bible says he had hair like "lambs wool" and feet the color of bronze burned in a fire. I rest my case. Good post asking relevant questions cause zionists accuse the Pals of importing relatives not tied to land; what's sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander. Zionists say we are all jews, promise made to a specific bloodline.

IN MY FAMILY WE GO FROM SWARTHY DARK TO BLOND BLUE EYES . SO EAT YOUR HEART OUT WE ALL TEST THE SAME !! WE ARE ALSO VERY TALL !! OUR GRANDPARENTS WERE SMALL

You may as well throw the "jew baiting" nonsense aside as, according to you, it covers ANY criticism of inappropriate zionist behavior, which in and of itself is ABSOLUTELY RIDICULOUS. That you and zionists think you are or should be immune to criticism is fantasy and there is something more in your cup than coffee. Well, you better get used to your definition of "jew baiting", cause everybody is discussing your untoward BS over there, even the Quakers. The issue here today is not slave trade, however, you are delusional if you think no such records exist and they speak for themselves. You name countries, no individuals/organizations/banks in those countries. Today, subject is zionism and Pals gov't, any opinion on that? How you treating those Ethiopians? Do you still maintain Jesus was a myth?

Howdy Ballistic; The U.S. Secretary of State does not make U.S. foreign policy. He/she just carries it out on the diplomatic front. That's the nature of the job. I'm not sure what Condi's IQ is, but one does not obtain a PhD and rise to head the U.S. State Department by being a cretan (as Marilyn said). At least Dr. Rice was smart enough to recognize that the Mecca Agreement did nothing whatsoever to address the Quartet's requirements for a resumption of direct foreign aid to the PA. What Saudi demands? The Saudis are in no position to be making demands.

Get in TWO ziosupremafascist posts for the price of one. 45 Minutes to go. Flaunt your 200 nukes, F16's, merkava tanks, APC's, your 8 million$ A DAY USA aid. etc. etc. Trouble is... despite having all that, there are still millions more Arabs than you, and you can't make the Palestine issue go away. You stole their land and one day will have to return it. HAHAHA

I missed ya! Chooz or Choos is shorthand for IsraeliZionistFascists - FYI. (I'm a miser in letters) Why am I here? To attempt to a effect a small change in consciousness. I know your COLLECTIVE GAME, and how many of you here treat the odd gentile who wanders in not knowing the one-sided rules of the game as an easy target for your rhetorical sport. So I'm here to add a little balance. I give no quarter, and expect none and am not afraid to be called an anti-cement. The epithet is WORTHLESS. But many of my posts are very clear. Warning that IMHO, if you don't sue for an equitable peace REAL SOON... you may not get another chance. EVER. And a combination of demographics, advancements in low-cost military countermeasures (portable SAMS, antitank weapons, IED's etc) will level the playing field to your DISADVANTAGE. SO hurry up. I actually care. Because the alternative is too painful to visualise. CYA.

Arabs, who bought the slaves from African tribal leaders.

BALLISTIC YOU MAKE SPLENDID INUENDO AND TITTLE TATTLE BUT CANNOT EVER SUPPORT IT WITH CONTENT . YOUR JEW BAITING NEVER CEASES ON THE FASCIST RABBLE LEVEL . THE SLAVE TRADE RAN FOR 300 YEARS AND YOU CLAIM TO KNOW WHO FINANCED IT !! OK NAMES AND HISTORICAL EVENTS . YOU HAVENT THE FAINTEST IDEA HOW WAR IS FINANCED BUT COME UP WITH SIMILAR NONSENSE . BRITAIN , USA USSR ITALY GERMANY JAPAN CHINA TAKE YOUR PICK BY THE WAY I DRINL REAL COFFEE

It's been an established custom among many African peoples to brutally circumcize unwillling girls. Circumsizing the men is only granting them equal treatment. Africa can use any assist or method to contain their rampant Aids epedemic. When I returned from overseas on board a troopship, many gentile fellows voluntarily underwent the circumcision becaise they had caught a "dose" and wanted to reduce the odds in further encounters. It's a healthy procedure, many hospital do it in the U.S. Since it's so common, don't be such a putz about it.

"...The Tel Aviv Stock Exchange continued to set records on Wednesday as the TA-100 share index broke the psychological barrier of 1,000 points for the first time, led by this week's strong macroeconomic growth forecasts, and shares of the large banks and real estate companies. "The 1,000 points barrier is just a nice round number, a psychological point and a historic record," said Tamir Porat, deputy manager of investments at Clal Finance Batucha. "But there is continued positive momentum in the market driven by very good macroeconomic data, despite the second Lebanon war and other geopolitical threats; continued quarter-on-quarter profitability of the companies traded on the market; and the fact that the major credit rating agencies have raised the country's outlook." pd:I love you.

Since when has being on the couch & undergoing therapy been regarded as a "psychology edukashun"

look to see what they do. The Saudis will not be ignored in their demands; the US will pay attention. Most articles are for human consumption by the masses, not the real deal, which we never know until it is a reality. However, talk of releasing Jordanisn prisoners, unthought of a while ago, I fear is part of a plan supported by the Arabs you and I don't have knowledge of. US will bring a settlement to the ME, watch and see, cause GWB doesn't have ANY choice if he wants to get his arse out of the proverbial sling and keep oil flowing. It is not smart to mess with King Abdullah!

You are NOT Jewish. Jews are Semites and are swarthy. Like their Arab brothers and sisters. Don't get me wrong... I can't blame semitic people covering up their babesw with wigs and scarves... some of them are drop dead gorgeous and thus need protecting. I live swarthy in a hot woman! But the blond ones are IMPOSTERS! Surely? The only blue-eyed blond Jews depicted I ever saw are ridiculous pictures of Jesus from the 19th century. The Jewish Jesus was more likely a similar shade of bronze to Tiger Woods.