Rice: Israelis are prepared to give up West Bank for peace

Beware of any opinions from GWBush's cabinet. Connie Rice has proved herself to be totally untrustworthy as to her judgement regarding mideast affairs. She is GWBush's puppet. I saw the PBS documentary "Bush's War". It brings together all the profound lies used to create public hysteria to a sufficient degree as to allow this country to move into a war nwith insufficient plans and knowledge of the mideast area. Connie Rice knew about thye ;ies and swept it into her mental waste basket rather than provide Bush with a chance to give the truth a chance to be truely debated. I now hear the same hysteria and manipulation in regard to her opinion re the West Bank. All this blahblah on her part is part of her need to kowtow to Bush in an effort on his part to go down in hystory as the saviour of Jerusalem and hoping to take his place alongside Jesus and have a direct ticket to heaven. The messiah from Texas. se.

Better put an initial behind your name or something to differentiate yourself from that venom spitting, gnaw on poster Connie we all know and love from Canada. Continue to use "Connie" at your own risk.

Proverbs 26:5 "When arguing with fools, be sure to answer their foolish arguments, or they will become wise in their own estimation." No I am not the Connie you refer to so I guess you will have to retract your statements, ballistic. It is wise to refrain from personal attacks against people you do not know. Regards to you also!

And therein lies the problem. A true Christian follows the teachings of Jesus-and too many who claim to be really are not-which makes people like you so critical. But additionally, we believe that the Bible is the inspired word of God-and folks like you are inclined to think of it as fairy tales, or simply irrelevant today. Will have to do some research this weekend-have some stuff to support my post that you decry.

Not only didn't your "Header didn't come out right", your head is screwed on backwards--So involved in the Middle East and you can't find time or make the effort to see to the needs of your fellow Afro-Americans--As they say, something is rotten in NV, in this case, it seems to be you --

Golly, you go from one reasonable post to me and then on to post another pure propaganda post. Come on, people have lived over there for thousands of years without Zionists. It is a pity that people like you preach there wasn't life there until Zionists plopped down. Now that assertion by you is down right despicable and not at all consistent with Christian teachings. Where did Jesus live? Regards.

Well, a Christian follows the teaching of Jesus and Moses. You do not lie, steal, worship other gods, blah, blah, blah. As I said, those folks claiming to be Christians and supporting what they support should be ashamed of themselves. Hypocrites. So, I guess I am not a Christian. Of course Fox News says this is a Christian nation, right after saying we killed hundreds of thousands of Iraqis behind a mistake. Seems God would have whispered that to Bush before Dubya made the mistake since he claims a direct link to God. His 'god' connection was as faulty as his on the earth intelligence. America appears to be in a free fall; I am not so sure that God is pleased with Christians or anybody else, what do you think? Regards.

I am afraid you are right--but you missed one---Isaiah 17:1

You know nothing! The land of Israel was a waste that no one wanted until the jewish people returned and made it productive--then the pals wanted it. When jews left some areas, they left producing greenhouses--which the pals destroyed--you've got it all backward.

One thing I am not is confused. And if you are claiming to be a C hristian, I would like to know just what your definition of Christian is----

Did it ever occur to you that those catastrophies are BECAUSE the US provided blind support to bad acts of the non Torah observing Zionists? Jerry Falwell proclaimed that Sharon was punished by God for giving away his land. I am not sure God agreed with him because soon thereafter Falwell got whacked. So what is up?

Are you that same hateful Connie who is always posting stuff to gnaw on right minded people? You are a Christian? Lordy, wonders never cease. If you are Christian, I guess I am not. Regards to you from your fifth post in Canada.

Observer was writing to Axel and so I used the post number and Axel as the header, but it was in response to Observer, who is always confused. You, of course, are never confused. Regards. Ballistic.

The U.S. should not try to help to divide Israel. These people are God's people and the Bible is very clear that he WILL protect his people. When we condoned the removal of Jews from the Gaza Strip. God allowed Katrina and Rita to ravage the South. To devide Israel could lead to other catastrophes. This is history. I'm not sure Rice really knows what she is doing and I feel that she needs to do some research before promoting division to Israel.

Israel would left the West Bank long ago were it interested in peace. On the contrary, in 2002 when ALL the Arab leaders offered Zionist entity a peace deal, Israelis went into Jenin to commit massacre. So long as Illegal Settlements are being expanded daily, there is no other solution but One-Democratic-State. Want it or not, it is the only realistic future for the Middle East. Olmert and Abbas will not achieve anything (Olmert cant move the Illegal Settlers, Abbas cant give up Jerusalem and the Right of Return), new leaders perhaps 10 years from now, on Israeli side will have to face some 200,000 new illegal Settlers, while on Palestinian as many new extremists (growing fast under Occupation and injustice). No Justice - No Peace.

Whether Jew or Gentile, all will come before the throne. The Lord choses who He choses and many have and will fall away from the faith. As Christians we are greatful to the Jewish people because it is through you that we have come to know the, Father. You are his chosen people. Christians are your allies, brothers and sisters. Where is the love, my friend? Yes, Jesus will return with a sword, but all will be judged, not just the Jewish people. He comes to set up His kingdom and reign from Jerusalem, restoring the Jewish people as He's promised.

I don't know anything about you being "Rich". I can't speak for Axel. As far as giving up land, you are supposed to give it up because it does not and never did belong to you. Perhaps God is punishing America, and hence Zionists, for making a mockery of what he reportedly did a long time ago, which was throw about the Godless from the Holy Land. We will have to see. Regards.

You all sound like you know everyone else so well----but you aren't always right. A few days ago some of you were sure I was some guy named Rich----lol---but since one of my "titles" is Mom---------

I think God will punish one and all who go against His will. And I am afraid that Mr. Bush and Condi will have many regrets. They say those who refuse to learn from history are doomed to repeat it. Israel keeps giving up land, and that land is then used to attack her.But those in power seem to be totally blind about that--

Post makes no sense; sounds like you are on your third martini or so. Regards.

Where are your children or grandchildren..??..If they're in the U.S., they don't have a problem--If they're in Israel, then the situation will return to what it was before 1967 if Israel returns the West Bank-- War after war, incessant attacks--Israel gave back Gaza, look at the results, two years of rocket bombardments--It's not as simple as you're trying to make it--

Condi is a lot smarter asleep than you will ever be wide awake--It's interesting to note that you don't give a shit about your own people and have consumed yourself with the Middle East--When that's poor sap going to make an honest woman of you..??..The way you have things arranged you get be buried together in a military cemetery--Better yet, he doesn't exist, it was just a pretext on your part, the same way people say "My best friends are" and then go ahead to defame a particular group--

When Iraq rocketed Israel, the U.S. prevented her from retaliating--The United States wanted to be in full control of the operation, something you have intentionally forgot--Israel had no interests in Iraq and had no need for their oil.--The U.S., Britain and the rest of Europe needed the supply--As we recall, the administration, with Colin Powell as their frontman claimed the had located WMD's, and Powell in particular, cited that a particular trailer was part of the system--The U.S., with all it's intelligence services relied on their own information and that of the British, who had come to the same conclusions--And you from the Nazi gang, and that's quite evident, are on a rampage to complete the work of your fathers--I haven't forgotten on how you insisted that Kurt Waldheim was pure and innocent, until I proved it otherwise--Then we have your buddy, FRUITCAKE BALLISTIC, who doesn't give a rap about her own black people, riddled with illegitimacy, crime & narcotics, is totally unconcerned with their welfare? Her people having the highest ratio of inmates in our prisons?She is as phony as you are?YOU may now return to polishing your jackboots and pressing your brown uniform in preparation for celebrating the Fuhrer?s committing suicide

Yeah, he swore and be damned he lived in a penthouse in Israel. Now he claims to live in Belfast. What a character. Regards.

I think we should appreciate that Paul Harris alias victor hardman dropped the capitals habit. The crap is the same, but the reading is faster.

You are a chicken hawk!!! So you caught El-Al and moved to Belfast did you? Did you donate your trailer to UHaul? What a piece of work. I just love it when those spouting the biggest load of BS pack it in and move afar while continuing with the BS, without caps of course. Who'd you give your mushrooms to, Lynn? You posted me "we weeped by Zion", is that so. Of course, you have posted time and again that God does not exist and Jesus was a myth, so I am certain you are not at all disillusioned aboutany expectation about help from above for the thieving Zionists, are you? That's it, vote with your feet. Say, I was reading a thread today on Haaretz about Jews in Canada that Lieberman is trying to entice to Israel. They say no way, Jose. Regards.

For the sake of a lasting peace,so my children and grand children will know NO war.

Jerry Falwell kept saying God punished Sharon for giving up God's land and that because of it Sharon is neither dead or alive, a punishment from God. However, shortly thereafter, God whacked Jerry Falwell. Boy did that raise an eyebrow, what do you think? Regards.

Well, Observer, as I told Lynn on several occasions. The world sits wide-eyed in anticipation of what if anything God will do about that mess over there and whether he will lift a finger to help those non Torah observing majority over there. Many wonder whether their actions rival or exceed those actions that caused him to empty the land once before. Why the need for nukes if God is in control, and I do believe he is. Well, I guess we will all see. Regards.

wales and scotland and ireland?-------------they keep on sticking their noses into our buisness about giving up G-Ds land to our enemies but cant seem to manage their own affairs-----englands brown/blair cant deal with their own problems just like ms rice cant/wont satisfy the mexicans

Israel, just say NO..... You must not allow.This is suicide. The land belongs to You. Jehovah gave it to you. Those responsible will be held accountable by Him. I am so embarassed of our government for even suggesting you give your land to terrorists. Israel, vote No in your government.........

There will be no peace any time soon. Annapolis is a joke, just like all the meetings gone before. Every time Israel gives up land, it is used to attack her. The pals will never be satisfied til they have it all, and God is not going to let that happen. Period.

Better start at about chapter 36-37----

Does any of this by any chance make you begin to wonder just whose side she's really on? Or is she just trying to make a name for herself?? The more we push Israel to give up territory, we are in trouble with God. It's a good thing that He retains the ultimate control

It's unfortunate for the jews that the disgusting people of your beliefs have twisted God's word. Hence the Talmud. Now we have Zionists in our country this time with their extremist views, robbing and stealing and raping our country. Like they did Germany with the Balfour Declaration. It's going to look bad on the good people of your country. i'm smart; i know better than to hate a group for the actions of a few. But many people aren't. They will kill you all, the "jews" (zionists - hardcore extremists that have created many of the worlds problems) but for the actions of a few disgusting, hate-filled "zionistic" souls. God blessed jews with intelligence but He didn't bless many of them with a good heart. Talmudic Zionist Jews are a usurious clan that spit in God's face and wish destruction upon their owned brother and sisters. God will destroy you. But man will destroy you all.

the Messiah had come already,died,buried,and rose from the dead,right now,He's sitting at the right hand of God the Father.when He comes back again,we,true christians,we'll meet Him in the air,this is called rapture[caught up]...then as you say,a lot of jews we'll be left behind and go through great tribulation[7years],1/3 or 2/3 of the jews will be killed and the rest will accept their Messiah as their personal Saviour and Lord.right now,He's knocking at the door of you heart,are you going to let Him in now.He's not forcing you,the lock of the door of your heart is inside.it's up to you to open it.

is very real as well.the devil hath blinded your minds so that you won't believe in the real God,the Creator of the Universe.I didn't make it up, the bible says it.

Condolleeza Rice makes black people look bad. She's just another person who sells her ass for comfort... whatever the cost. As long as she's "distinguished" with status, she doesn't care what she does. Just as long as she can drive a Mercedes and look purty. To be great isn't a thing of color. And if you make it so, you're just another person of a color. Rice is just another weak spirit. Part of the administration of weak spirits. The administration of the weak. It's funny how they're all Zionists playing their little puppets, like the proud Rice, on a string.

Ben, you said it so well. Condi is a shriveled up like a dried prune. A dried up fruitcake, that has no brain.

Sharon once said he had trouble keeping his eyes off of those long shapely legs and his mind on the business at hand. She looks better than Livni, way, way better. Condi may be many things, but ugly is not one of them. Regards.

Golly, Maureen, I guess the zealots are getting worn down, what with Condi saying they will give up the West Bank, Golan, Sheba, settlements, blah, blah. Is there anything else they stole besides lives? If so, she says they will be returning that too. She would never say it unless Bush told her to say it as she doesn't run anything really. Dubya is very concerned about Pakistan and as Condi said, that has the potential to be, well, let's just say, rather messy. Say, look at the top of the thread page and see if you see a new DVD being offered from Haaretz entitled, "Goodbye Israel--Bush, blah, blah". I ordered it from Ebay but found it strange that Haaretz would be touting it. Ben Jabo has gone over the edge. He can't even spell a name right anymore. Keep on with those hardhitting posts---I just love em. High regards.

I did'nt know this was OZ

Idologues don't need or want facts. Nations of the world, keep your heads down, or she'll bring "democracy" to you next!

then you want to follow the christians who believe that katrina happened because we withdrew from Gaza,why don't you become a christian then?if you are not already one.remember who commited the Holocaust,and how many jews were killed by the crusaders, they live in illusion.you know better than that. the utmost wish for the christians is to see no more jews. they want us to convert or die, their Hallucination supposed not to cloud our minds and soul.read about the NEO CONS IN America, their real aim is the conversion of all jews to christians, and we say OK, as long as they back us up. but they back us up, and in their minds, that one day, they are going to finish us up. Israel as a jewish state is not an aspiration for them,Israel as a christian nation is their dream, wake up man.

the only thing that ruined life for the palestinians was bringing yasser arafat here with 50,000 ak 47 he killed any palestinian that didn't accept his dictatorship or opened their mouth against his corruption and terror stop selling hogwash to fools on the left. Oslo accords brought horrible devastation to all palestinians Arafat had no intention of sincerely making peace. Naive leftest israelis overtly supported The arch terrorist Arafat. Admit it life today is much worse in the territories than pre - oslo The Idf was much better for the palestinians the roadblocks came up thanks to the PA who sent suicide bombers to Tel Aviv First we much teach palestinians what tolerance means Palestinians can't even respect their own brethren why do you expect them to respect israel The geneva accords will lead to hamas leadership in the west bank and missles all over tel aviv Admit you were dead wrong with oslo/geneva long live the kibbush of the IDF!!!!

Ugly on the outside; ugly on the inside. Nothing but a self-obsessed, ego-maniac who is a secret anti-semite.

The current US administration has formulated a policy which has given us $100 a barrel oil, a nuclear Iran, and an elected Hamas government. WOW!!!!What a list of achievements! Bush has made a mess of things in the Midddle East. For Olmert to follow his lead is orse than the blind leading the blind. It is the bumbler leading the fumbler. The sooner both are out of office the better for all of us.

They and others just don't understand that the God of Israel (Bible) has given that land to the Jewish people (period). They can't change that or any person, people, or nations. Woe unto them that think they can change God's word. Read - Zechariah 12:1-9-DON'T PLAY WITH ISRAEL. May the God of Israel Bless the Jewish People. - Robert Benda -

Which god? Which devil? You think there's only one of each? Don't believe everything Yahweh says, he talks a big game but he's really a wooss.

One thing is a bet, you will find few blacks who do not love and defend Minister Farrakhan! That you associate with blacks who deny the timeliness of his message to his people just indicates you and those who think like you are yesterday`s news. Only ignorant blacks nowadays denies Farrakhan`s message". Balistic to me from another thread. Lucifer has taken over? Huh Ballistic? You and yours are despicable. Very HOT regards to you also.

isnt that part of her country presently that she supposedly represents ?--------seems to me from the news reports that mexicans want it back because they just keep on pouring over the border into their old stomping grounds------ms.rice show us by your good example how to give the southern usa away so we can figure out whether its safe for us to give G-Ds land away to our neighbors that covet after it just as your neighbors covet after yours.

Your uncle Goebbel tought you well or lies are a genetic makeup of Germans? Which please!

Back to 67 lines is called peace, any thing else is called photo opportunity. Other presidents tried before and failed. I don't think this president is going in the history book more than for the Iraq war.

Try and give the correct post #'s, I don't intend to go hunting searching for your drivel-- I figured out why you keep on mentioning a train--You have loose screw in your engine and losts more in your large caboose--

and don't intend to--I spend too much time trying to find out when you're going to board the aircraft on your way to the Holy Land, to fulfill your mission of being a Human Shield-- As soon as I learn of your departure, I'll have time to look--Until then, it remains on the far back burner--

american double standards at its best.... "the govt of iran doesnt represent the iranian people"........ like the shah of iran represented the iranian people...!!!!!!!!! bone up on your history condi....... !!!!!

Say Johnboy, when you were blogging yesterday, did you keep getting a popup while on the thread urging you to order a new DVD called "Goodbye Israel"? Included in the title was "Bush, Iran, blah, blah". I went to Ebay and found the DVD was being offered there, so I ordered it. Anyway, I think this summit will be a tad different than previous summits. Problems in Pakistan and the price of oil plus a high price tag for these wars, mortgage mess, blah, blah will cause voters and hence the gov't to stop with the BS and get Israel together. There is no support for bombing Iran despite the neocon choir redoing the Iraq song. You post good stuff; keep up the good work. Regards.

I answered your post saying you will be hard pressed to find any black folks condemning Farrakhan today. As a matter of fact, all black US Congressman show up to his lectures whenever he is in their district and that include Conyers, Rangel, Waters, the whole gang along with you and yours right up front on camera. Blacks love Farrakhan and silly Jews hate him. We've discovered that any black leader Jews love is a hankerchief head. If you hate him, we should love him and WHEREVER he goes he fills up stadiums (with no rap music) with lines around the block, here or anywere in the world. What black leader can have 1+ million black men show up on command? Rabbis and Jews meet and support Farrakhan. Those Jews who support occupation and murder despise him. We don't need your approval to choose our leaders; the ones you chose in the past turned out to be stooges, just like Abbas. Anybody telling truth is your enemy and Jews now condemn fellow Jews telling truth, what a pity. Regards.

is condi really serious ? if she is.... then she needs a pat on her back.... for becoming the first american govt. official who appears to have seen the light.

I am afraid the law a changed a bit since then. Besides, there is no evidence that you and yours had any land to get taken by the Arabs. It is hard to claim a beneficial interest in something where you had no interest to begin with. You are one who pushes the same old story. History says all those who lived in Judea were called Jews, like all living in Texas are called Texans without regard to any religion. Funny the Bible doesn't mention Jews until after 500 pages, and at that point Jesus begins to condemn them as being the children of the devil and not practicing Judaism. Say, a popup on Haaretz yesterday kept coming up wanting folks to order a new DVD called "Goodbye Israel". That is a rather strange popup for a Jewish newspaper. So I ordered it anyway. Is it possible Haaretz knows what you know not? Regards.

at the international chabad-lubavitch conference on sunday night in NY, they recited psalms for all inhabitants of the Land of Israel, and the chairman announced that we pray for real peace and that the holy city of yerusholayim should forever be ours, in one piece.

There's something surreal where BEFORE a conference Rice pontificates about Israel giving up land, and Olmert wants to release terrorists. Have you heard of negotiating 101? or is this really the Three Stooges - who's on first.

Who does Miss.Rice think she is? Israel is the LORDS and it will not be divided! It is intresting to sit back and watch a human think they can dictate over Jehovah,the potter who created her..Is she a vessel of honour or of destruction? She shows her true colors.

Ms Rice is deluding herself when she says there is a future in the middle east when you look at the region as a power keg ready to go up at any given moment.I can't see any future with Iran going nuclear and it's leaders making disgraceful statements against Israel.If Palestine becomes a state more likely than not it will become an unstable undemocratic despotic state run by hoodlums and terror gangs.It will become the Mecca for all the radical elements in the mid-East.An other big worry for Israel.The sacrifices she is talking about are really BIG.Who is going to pay for them?

Rice is sooo right! Needless to say, she meant the future of the entire world is at stake in the neccessity to extinguish the Israeli settlements in the West Bank and Israeli retreat more or less to the Green Line per a negotiated settlement. "The threat from violent extremists means that failure of the talks is not an option," she said. "What is at stake is nothing less than the future of the Middle East," she added. Rice expressed optimism ..."

You are repeating daily that Germany is working towards the destruction of Israel. Now you claim it was mainly German intelligence that led America into the Iraq war, which was highly appreciated by Israel. Good liars avoid inconsistencies. You are not even a good liar.

Life has greatly improved for Arabs in former Jordanian areas since 1967defensive war won by Israel.All the Arab villages & hamlets have grown enormously.New houses/shops going up all the time,not forgetting connection to Jewish water & electric infrastructure,street lighting,tractors to take over large fields in place of the original little areas ploughed with animals.Heavy use of modern roads provided by Israel,e.g. cutting taxi journey Kalkilya-Nablus in half,under Jordanian rule they had to use a steep,rough,narrow and winding road. Access to Israeli hospitals/clinics,before sick Arabs had to be lucky or wealthy.The list goes on. Of course the current situation is not good,and unless the local Arabs take responsibility for their life & stop blaming Israel for all their problems its going to get worse because of Hamas coup & Fatah corruption. Nobody should expect Israel to passively accept daily missiles coming from Gaza and the constant attempts to bring bombs into central Israe

what is this nonsense you are talking about. So Katrina came because of Gaza Evacuation? I think you are wrong, don't let your love for Israel to show you as if you were retarded. .stop Hallucination,you can struck fear in some ignorant people by your funny talks.don't make fun of yourself.

wher exactly did she glean this information ?? he stupidity on most subjects is breathtaking !

The US relied heavily on informations provided by Germany. Germany had supplied Saddam Hussein with WMDs which were found during and after the first Gulf War, especially poisonous gas. The German secret services knew very well, that shipments from Germany continued thereafter and so informed the Americans. A spokesmen of the US State Department confirmed just a few weeks ago, that Israel never asked for war against Iraq, but every Israeli responsible including Ariel Sharon warned about Iran and its nuclear ambitions. That you are trying to put the blame on Israel because some US citizens of Jewish faith favoured the war against Iraq is nothing but racism. From that German out of Berlin this is quite understandable and quite common, from you this is deplorable. And it is completely untrue.

NOT ABOUT LAND EITHER!!OR OIL! ONLY RELIGIOUS!DOESN'T RICE KNOW WHAT A CLASH OF CIVILIZATIONS IS?

GAZA AFTER EVICTING JEWS FROM THERE HOMES(WHICH RICE FORCED ON ISRAEL) KATRINA FORMED AND DESTROYED NEW ORLEANS(RICE'S HOME TOWN)? I WONDER WHAT NATURAL DISASTER WILL FALL ON AMERICAS HEAD BECAUSE OF THIS SELLING OUT OF ISRAEL TO THE TERRORISTS.YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED.

WHO DARES GO AGAINST THE TORAH!THE WICKED WITCH OF THE WEST WILL MELT AWAY VERY SOON!

Maria, you seem to be some what fanatic about what you believe in, so why don't you show up your real christian face and tell us the truth, that when your Messaiah will come back he will kill half of the jews in Israel and convert the other half into christians, isn't that what you believe in, no thank you for your offer and support, we don't need it

B: "It doesn`t matter what Israelis want at this time lest they be left high and dry by the USA and Palau. " And Palau too!!! OMG!!! Man, that's gonna have me chuckling for quite a while....

Can I get your mailing address so that when this is all over Palestinian officials will send you a form to apply for your Palestinian Jew citizenship. Just simply fill it out and return it in the pre paid postage envelope (by USA of course). Calm down, and breath....I know it hurts.

Calm down.. I know your nervous but if your a good little boy, we will accept you as a Palestinian Jew.

You mean Shut Up...right? I had a problem understanding that.I am an English teacher if you need ESL classes.(Did you mean TishTok?) Salam Aleykom

What does NOT make sense, is why Allah created ignorant, idiotic, stupid people like you.Why don't you go ask Germany for more money so you could begin to educate yourself.

It sounds like you're admitting that israel outright took the palestinina's land?!!Why else would you make such a comparison?.Hey,don't worry, we will still accept you as a Palestinian Jew.

jews side.He's on the [true] christians side also.He doesn't side with the children of the devil.

joshua 1:2 moses my servant is dead;now therefore arise,go over this jordan,thou,and all this people,unto the land which I give to them,even to the children of Israel.3.every place that the sole of your foot shall tread upon,that have I given unto you,as I said unto moses.4.from the wilderness and this lebanon even unto the great sea toward the river euphrates,all the land of the hittites,and unto the great sea toward the going down of the sun,shall be your coast.

Of course you can acquire territory through war, or will you next ask Arabs to Return Arabia to the Jews they Killed to claim it? The entire Islamic World, right down to Medina was claimed through war and they tried it again on Israel, but this time, they lost. As you can also lose land through war, something the Arabs never did quite understand. Perhaps you would like to cut a few chunks off of France to give to Nazi Germany? Maybe fork of Korea, the Philippines and Hawaii to the Japanese? No, Israel is Israel, Palestine is Jordan, that is the fact. Don't like it? Then accept this additional fact, you are an enemy of the Jewish People and the Death you wish on us, will be visited upon your own.

you indictaed you are a Farakhan stooge. I believe that you have identified yourself well with that post. Farakhan, in case you did not know, is another name for Lucifer. As an associate of Lucifer, your leanings towards death and destruction is well understood. As always, warm regards to you and also Ta ta.

Outright lier!! Israel is not prepared to give up Yehuda and samaria(west bank) Only the corrupt cowardly olmert will allow Rice to think Israel is prepared to talk of loosing part of the country.All censes have proved that the population refuses to think in this ridiculas line.Israel will not give Condi the right to talk bullshit.Remember Osllo __how many have died to prove it wrong???

It is impossible to get land for Peace. Peace only comes from God. It is written, when they shall say peace and safety, then sudden destruction comes upon them. This is God's land. It is not the Jews land, it is not the Arabs or the Palestinians, it is not a the Gentiles land. It is God's land.

In the past I had respect for Condi but now she is making that less respected. Israel is God`s Chosen, & He will protect them, She has lost her mind, Don`t she know that God is against a Palestinian state!!!!!!!!!

Another failed American politician offering Israel as a sacrifice on the altar of "Peace with the Palestinians" What an utter hoax. Miss Rice should find some other way to gain infamy and brighten her fading star.Can't she get busy with something else till she's out on the speaking tour circuit?

The land is not to be divided. This is not the way to peace:(Joel 3:2)"I will gather all nations, and will bring them down into the valley of Jehoshaphat; and I will enter into judgment with them there for My people and for My heritage Israel, whom they have scattered among the nations, and divided My land."

Your post was good and it was timely because Jabber has a faulty memory and he tends to slip and slide when the evidence is not in his favor. Your post is absolutely right, and it is unbelievable how many Zionist posters say, we didn't want Iraq. Yeah, right, there was Frum, Wolfowicz, on and on like who's who in AIPAC beating drums for Iraq and are now beating them for Iran with the same disastrous results as Iraq coming soon to our area. He just likes to Jabber about irrelevant stuff and is forgetful or deceitful. However, your post is right on the mark. Regards.

NO Jake, the Zionists are whining at the mere mention of the possibility of peace. 'We will not'; 'we cannot not', 'we won't. Yeah, keep whining while the Pals get their state. The world is used to Zionists whining about everything and everybody. Now is the time after 60 years for the Pals to have their state. You whine, they celebrate. Everybody's happy. Regards.

I really believe that Rice doesn't know what she is doing. She says that 'Iraelis are prepared to give up West Bank for peace' doesn't mean that ALL of Iraelis agree with her. Didn't she already see what happened when Gaza was given away for peace? There is still no peace with Palestinians because the radical Islamists are still firing rockets into Jewish communities! Why is the Israeli government listening to HER and not listening to Israel's people? She is still trying to make Palestinians stop their whining and now she wants to reward them?? It is time for Israelis to take it into their own hands if the Isreali government doesn't want to listen!! I like what John the Gentile said....so true.

Americans like everybody else are driven by self interest. When the rubber hits the road and the oil is unaffordable and heating and vehicle costs rise, no money for home, blah, blah, trouble in Pakistan, watch what happens to the opinions of Americans with respect to the thieving Zionists. Yep, wild fires, hurricanes, floods everywhere, no health insurance, jobs lost, foreclosures up the ying yang. Keep looking and then write me back in December about Americans and their view. They care about themselves, just like you care about Israel. Regards.

Read Genesis 12:1-3 and Zechariah 12:2-3. We are in the last days and the fulfillment of Ezekiel 38 and 39 are about to be fulfilled. Bush and Rice are gonna bring much trouble to the U.S.

I am not Arab and your childish insistence that you and yours (in your case from long distance) will continue to squat on Pal land must be a dream. Donkey parable applies: two donkeys, life long friends (Israel/US) harnessed together are walking over a narrow bridge over a deep ravine/river, when 1 donkey (Israel) slips over the edge. His friend looked at him, cut the harness and said 'ain't no use in both of us going over'. All those folks overly concerned and supporting Israel's bad behavior should pack up and go on off to fight the good fight in Israel. No need of being an arm chair cheerleader from the good ole USA, who now has her hands full with Pakistan and now Israel incessant whining is light action. Bets are that a Pal State will be coming. Even Paul Harris went to Belfast and changed his nane. Regards.

Condi speaks for Bush. The time has come for the Israelis to give back what they stole. Period. It doesn't matter what Israelis want at this time lest they be left high and dry by the USA and Palau. No world war for Israel so she can continue to squat on everybody's land and kill the homies. You don't agree? Well, then Israel and those like minded like yourself should be totally isolated to give yourselves a chance to think it over. No more US taxpayer mammary milk and Palau and Micronasia won't speak to you either. How's that? Regards.

I could'nt have said it better!!

After Josh's post stating you were a "hunk", we wonder about you and your obsession with putting women down, but it all comes together. So you are Josh's hunk, eh? Well, don't worry about black folks in the USA. What's important is that the Pals will be getting their own country, and then you can mull the illegitimate claim by you and yours against their land. Olmert says West Bank, Golan, Sheba Farms all is on the table, boy, Bush must have really stood on his Olmert's cajones in order to free his own from the grip of the Arabs. That is just wonderful. What's this prune stuff; only your woman dry up like prunes, not black woman and Jewish men don't deal with those who are not easy on the eyes. Sniff it up and get ready for that new Pals state coming very soon to an area near you. Let's see what happens at Annapolis. BTW, CNN says blacks enrolling in Uncle Sam is down 58% and they say we are stupid. Regards.

I can't think what Israel should have to give up. The whole problem is that the so called Palestinians want to destroy Israel and they won't negotiate on that. There should be NO negotiating with terrorists. It will only make them salivate more, and until they agree to recognize Israel, give up terror and Jeruslem, there's no point.

Zechariah 12:2-3 "Behold, I will make Jerusalem a cup of trembling unto all the people round bout, when they shall be in the seige, both against Judah and against Jerusalem. And in that day I will make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all the people: all that burden themselves with it shall be cut in pieces, though all the people of the earth be gathered together against it." Zechariah 12:10 "And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and the spirit of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced . . . "

I like it! Haven't ever heard anyone propose this before, but it makes sense. Not likely to happen, but it still makes sense.

Rice is saying what is convenient for her. She is not telling the truth. Recent polls show that most Israelis aren't prepared to cede our lands. Nor do most Israelis believe ceding our land will bring peace. It never has in the past and never will. I would love to see Israelis flood Judea and Samaria with new residents in response to the upcoming suicide conference.

There is entirely too much panic about the Anapolis meeting. If it is wildly successful, it will lead to a year or two of negotiations towards an agreement. If the negotiations are wildly successful and an agreement is reached, it will take several years to actually implement.

Poor Condi, she has no clue what Olmert and his sharks have in plan for her. If her position is a giveback of the WestBank (all of it), some sort of Palestinian share in Jerusalem, a symbolic recognition of the right of return with a few returnees and compensation for the rest, Israel will never agree. Palestinians would. Time for Bush to use his deft, diplomatic approach. ;)

Israel will have the land all the way up to the Euphrates River and more! There will be no Palestinian state. This is Israel's land which goes all the way back to the covenant with Abraham. God doesn't break covenants and this is God's land. hmmm.. what did God say? oh ya, he who curses Israel will be cursed, and he who blesses Israel will be blessed. Mr. President, do you read your Bible?

If you apply Condi's positions she should be negotiating with Osama as well. She and "Abu Olmert "(anything to stay in office Ehud) want to make sure the US gets all the Saudi oil it needs and makes the EU happy. As for Israelis, well, they are on the bad end of this. Who cares about Sderot when Israelis need to make sure Condi's role in history is well assured? Hudna of the brave, clearly.

Condoleezza Rice does not have any clue as to the position of the majority of Israelis. Condoleezza Rice has allowed the Communists to take over Venezuela, and Hamas to take over Gaza. The good news is that in some twelve or thirteen short months, Condoleezza Rice will be gone. I can not imagine any other American leader who would want that blabbermouth speaking for Israel.

Israel is a land pig. Already they have almost 1% of the Middle East. The Arabs have just over 99%. No wonder the Arabs feel abused. 1% is way too much for Israel to have in their opinion. If Israel was a speed limit the car would be going 1/2 mile per hour.

Israel,you must never give more land to those dedicated to your destruction. Rice and Bush have no idea of the consequences of dividing the land,to you secular Jew's ,you know not what you are in for. You will never have peace with Islam. you will only have peace when the Prince of peace returns to establish his kingdom,and I can assure you it won't be allah but the one we call the Alpha and the Omega ,the great Iam that Iam,the Sweet Rose of Sharon ,The Lily of The Valley, His name is Yaweh and he is coming for his bride.

The defeat of Zionism will bring about a period of peace and security in the region as long as Israelis embrace peace and discard their 2000 year old misplaced hatred of the indigenous population of the region. Israel's future today lies in the Negev, where a new breed of Jewish Pioneers will be challenged to tame the desert and make it bloom, only this time with their own hard labor, water and on their own land. It will take decades for the Palestinians to undo the damage that the Israeli occupation has done to their eternal homeland, their culture and their people, but the Palestinians have proven themselves to be very strong and like America's own heroes, willing to die for their God given rights and freedoms. Soon their perseverance will pay off with their people living free once again, but not without the many sacrifices made by those who gave their lives for their people?s freedom.

Oh for goodness sake, stop shirking your responsibility and help your black brothers and sisters--They need your attention a lot more than the ME does--The so-called Palestinians have again proven they're unfit to rule themselves, much to the embarassment of Bush & Condi--This summit will fail as all the others have--Arabs make promises and just don't know how to keep them--BTW, maybe you can get your "Mate" to promise to marry you--Imagine, 14 years living in a state of sin---I guess at your advanced age you're probably shriveled like a dried prune and ugly as sin--

of Road Map Blunders , Wich is to reward the mideast violent extremists with a Jihad State ,

to some of their longest-held aspirations during upcoming talks at Annapolis. Arabs must make concessions and leave Israel for arabs serve the purposes of violents extremists in the Mideast .

the 2 states solution urgently reveals itself as a total blunder and serves extremists , Gaza is a flagrant evidence standing tall against Rice spin and view ,

Abbas wouldn't have lost Gaza to extremists ,

your thinking. And this is the problem, American and other administrations are facing. Living in Washington,Taxas....makes one very difficult to understand the Arab mentality. Anything you think makes sence to a normal person,doesnot make sence to Arabs. Just a simple isue of value of life,death is the virtue.Now, try to talk peace.

Abbas lost Gaza to Hamas , how dare Rice spin and say Abbas serve as the bulwark against extremists , Abbas serves the extremists ,

You live in NY and are an American? Enjoying all the opportunities of the good old US of A? Where is your loyalty, Israel or America?

There are exactly four Israelis who want to give back the West Bank: Olmert, Olmert's wife the pinko, Yossi Beilin and Achmad Tibi (who should be playing the puppet for ventriloquist Jeff Dunham). Maybe Rice should check her data, before talking out of her behind.

Your childish rants impress nobody. You can waste your time making snarking posts however you will change nothing. Israel will continue as a Jewish state, long after you are dead, and nothing you say will change that. The bottom line is, you Arabs attacked Israel, not once but many times, and each time you got defeated. In the future you will be defeated again and again, until you learn to live in peace with your neighbors or move to Las Vegas as you have.

She is totally wrong.Concessions by Israel will only whet the appetite of the Palesinians for more concessions.Whatever Israel gives will never be enough for them,anyone who thinks otherwise is totally blind to history.Is Mrs Rice prepared to give back Texas to Mexico,and most of the country to the Indians?

GIVE UP THE WEST BANK,AND HAVE THE IRANIAN GUARD SITTING IN EAST JERUSALEM THE NEXT WEEK....

Hey ballistic....either you haven't educated yourself enough about the Middle East issues, or you are plain stupid...if all Americans think like you I feel pitty for your homeland..

Does anyone in Washington own a Bible and can anyone read and interpret accuartely what it plainly says about those who choose to divide Israel? Catastrophe impending for the US!

Sometimes the best laid plans go awry as with Cheney/Bush/Sharon. Mans plans are subject to God's plans and to the extent the plans don't coincide with one another, you get a fiasco, like Iraq, Lebanon and Afghanistan. Regards.

A 3-state solution seems to be the only realistic option now. I don't know anyone who claims "peace" is a realistic part of the deal. A huge missile defense system is now our only current possible protection.

Give up West Bank, Gaza and East Jerusalem is for the best interest of Israel's survival. Think about that.

Condi says what she is told to say, bright light. She is Dubya mouthpiece, since he can't string a sentence together. Dubya has changed his mind. He chooses not to do without a crashed world economy, no oil and all our people in the ME. He can't bogard China and Russia and his term is ending. Condi and Powell always wanted diplomacy and lost out to Cheney, who has been silenced along with his neocon buddies after f---- up the process. Stay abreast. I guess you don't play chess and understand the concept as to when the game is up and there are no good moves, only calamity. Regards.

I read a post yesterday asking if Israel is in the driver's seat or a backseat passenger. I think Haaretz had a headline of the same sort awhile ago. Better catch that peace train ole buddy, yup, cause the Pals are gonna set up a state all spiffied up right next to Paul Harris' trailer that he left when he ran off to Belfast and changed his name to Hardman. He didn't want to encounter those long El-Al lines at the last minute. What a laugh, you blame Condi and Livi and poor Olmert. As long as Zionists are on the US taxpayer titty, they will do what they are told to do by Dubya, lest you get dropped off the bridge. Get it? Okay. One Pal state coming up, yessirree. Regards.

Giving Land to Jewkillers? Kill the Palestinians while they sleep! No peace for them ever..to many dead Jews to do that.

The traitors Olmert and Gang will probably get a Civil War. http://ralphsrant1.blogspot.com/

Olmert, Abbas and Bush are desperate men, desperately seeking solutions to a desparately insoluable problem. Desperate to hold onto their shrinking power and avoid their own inevitable personal desperate realities they continue to ignore the desperately little popular support of their constituencies. This environment of desparation will ultimately lead to illusion and a failed, even if agreed to, arrangement. Unfortunately, then "the chickens will come home to roost."

I didn't hear even one word of any future that offers anything. Israel will give up the West Bank and divide Jerusalem and the Palestinians will aim their rockets at the entire country. It is fanciful to imagine that the group that gave the world terror- and suicide bombers will be the bulwark against terror. They are terror. Israel is about to fall.

I didn't hear even one word of any future that offers anything. Israel will give up the West Bank and divide Jerusalem and the Palestinians will aim their rockets at the entire country. It is fanciful to imagine that the group that gave the world terror- and suicide bombers will be the bulwark against terror. They are terror. Israel is about to fall.

"She`s a part of the clique that swore to high heaven that Iraq had WMD`s, lying to America and fooling us to get into the Iraqi quagmire-- More than 3000 American dead on that battlefield, and still counting" The clique that swore to high heaven that Iraq had WMD`s was foremost the Israeli government and its Zionist supporters in the USA. But it's amusing enough that you from the Zionist gang which hailed America for taking Saddam off Israel's back have absolutely no memory of your war-mongering of yesteryear.

do the right wingers on here scream and cry blue murder all the time...yawn, its so boring, everytime there's a sniff of peace they do their best to rubbish it...rightists want war and the continuation of hate...they have no clue that it takes more courage to make peace

Silly me, because from this angle it looks like you are the one doing the lion's share of the whining.

Sec Rice is wrong for advocating a stupid policy, but Prime Minister Olmert is corrupt for following it and the Israeli public is mentally and morally retarded for allowing their country to be given away for paper peace with open advocates of their destruction.

Annapolis is a smokescreen!! A smokescreen for the on-going land grabbing thieves and kidnappers in Israel! Please read: "Friends of Al-Aqsa" 13 November 2007. Dr Maryam Saleh, MP and former minister of women's affairs, and MP Khalid Tafish were kidnapped by IOF (Israeli Occupation Force) Palestinian orchards at Jenin bulldozed, scores of Palestinian farmers forced to evacuate. http://www.aqsa.org.uk/ By the way, 3800 dead American soldiers, many others maimed. Who's war is it really, Ben? ' A Clean Break: A New Strategy for Securing the Real.' Ever read it?

that you will vanquish your enemies and a world uma shall be established. It is written O'Islam. :)

The Bush administration is as non-credible in the US as Olmert is in Israel. Nothing good can come from playing ball with this lame-duck president and his crowd. Israel should not put itself in the position of giving the "peace glory" to Bush, while his successor has the thankless job of cobbing together the tens of billions needed to bankroll and guarantee a deal. Reagan/Baker screwed Israel on most of the commitments made by Carter - not paying for the replacement airbases, not delivering promised weapons systems, and especially by grossly overarming Egypt and Saudi Arabia with massive weapons sales, virtually erasing the value of military aid that was part of the deal. Shape of "land-for-peace" this time must be perfect peace such as exists between North Dakota and South Dakota, NOT "100% effort vs. 100% results". Or no concessions in the first place. "End-of-conflict" deal must include all Arab/Muslim nations, total embargo in US/EU trade-embassy relations with hold-outs.

god is on their side...have they not read history? You'd think that the jews were always on the winning end of the story and never at the butts end. History proves many of these schmucks wrong.

If it is all written then why stress huh? Why even get nukes or worry about them?! We invade Iraq, or do anything really. the world is a lot more complicated than the childish binary good vs. evil melodrama many religious nuts prosletize. it is childish really, good versus evil, good wins, evil is vanquished. Come on John the Gentile. :)

Ms.Rice, since you are "pushing" it against the odds, you also need to commit America to receive the Israeli-Jews, whom the Pals are committed to push into the sea: Abbas in stages, which will allow America to prepare herself for us. Hamas in one sweep, which means that America needs to issue an emergency evacuation plan to an immediate transport of the Israeli-Jews overseas. Get the Hercules-planes ready! PS.: IF you do not believe me, read their Charters, please!

Ms. Rice is not a friend of Israel. I have yet to hear what the Palastinians are guaranteeing. What concessions are they making? So Israel gives them what this declaration states and the four fundamental issues for not agreeing to peace remain. So, what will be accomplished at this summit? One inch of a piece of land for no guarantee for a life of peace. Abbas, Hamas, Hezbollah, Egypt, Jordan, Saudi Arabia, Lebanon, want nothing more than the destruction of Israel and the Jews. If they don't kill them, they will enslave them. G-d the Almighty, will not allow this to happen. It is written. It is without debate or question. G-d will shield the Land of Israel the home of the Jewish people from those who raise the sword to his people. The earth will shake in ferocity beneath the feet of those raise the sword. Fear not the man, fear the Almighty.

Hermit, you want to really go down in history as the most goofy of all Prime Ministers in the History of Israel.? Congratulations, you have.!

I would venture not many Israelis take Palestinian conditions for peace and ability to deliver it seriously.

when Israel withdraws. THEN WHAT, Ms.Rice? Oops!

...why not send a few ships with Samsonite suitcases to Israel, instead of weapons? Help the settlers packing! Though you don't fool me Ms. Rice, this is just part of the PR campaign. All major press agencies, all over the world, will bring the story to the public. Though next thing: Israel will come up with inacceptable demands and will serve a big blow to the Annapolis summitt. As soon as the Annapolis summitt is declared a bust, we all know that the Palestinians will be the scapegoats. This is all just so transparant. If America is serious, it should demand removal of all settler terrorists occupying the center of Hebron, before the lights in Annapolis are switched-on. Its not about statements, its about deeds Ms. Rice. No deeds, no peace.

Will Israel bite the hand that feeds it, and say no to America?

Israelis believe all the land over their belongs to them. Problem with 'beliefs' is they are often wrong. Israel is squatting on everybody's land with the "belief" it is hers. You CANNOT acquire territory through war, that is the rule and although many think Israel is not bound by the rule, that is simply her interpretation of the "I am superior" training her citizens get. Shebba Farms, the Golan, the West Bank, East Jerusalem---no they don't belong to Israel, sorry, so sorry, they belong to others in the neighborhood and Israel's insistence they belong to her is gonna get her arse whupped over there. What is the solution; well Israel was given a small lot of land by her benefactors. I guess she will just have to be satisfied with the gift. Regards.

Some real bad dude is bluffing you maam. There is no way that the citizens on the West Bank will want to become Westbankistanis under Hamas/Iran. So to get them out, maam, its gonna take a mean lot of pressure. Better luck next time maam.

I see both of you can focus on the issue of the thread, which is that the peace train is chugging down the track, better get aboard, choo-choo as that new Pal state is going to be right next door to Israel whether she likes it or not. Get used to the idea and stop blaming everybody. That was the deal and the deal is finally the issue. So what are the Israelis gonna do but whine. Sniff it up, accept peace from the Arabs and forget about any dreams of Historical Israel. That's just the way the pickle squirts. Nobody is gonna bomb Iran for Israel so she can have the only big wheel (nuke) in town which she implicitly indicates she will use if she doesn't get her way. Poor, poor Israel. Regards.

Before your spit hits the floor, Condi and Bushy will be retired. That's what happens to lame ducks in the good old USA. She can say whatever she wants but she will be gone baby gone [repeat the first line].

With a PM who is no longer taken seriously in Washington and an Israeli FM which has a proven record of grave failure and is virtually non present with a coherent policy for the second consecutive year, it is now clear, that Condoleezza Rice is conducting Israeli policies. We have seen that she compares Abbas with Martin Luther King and the Palestinian terror with the civil rights movement in the US. The latest reports were that she is schmoozing with Assad and has put the Golan on the negotiating table over the head of Olmert. Apparently she is also ready to ease sanctions against Syria. The great slaughter called Annapolis is in full swing.

READ ISAIAH LAST CHAPTER FOR TOMORROW'S NEWS OF WHAT WILL HAPPEN TO THOSE THAT COME UP TO FIGHT G-D.

The disaster that the Bushies created in the middle east has weakened U.S. and Israel, emboldened our enemies - Iran, Syria, Hezbollah(armed by Iran). Even Russia is starting to take advantage of our weakened position in the world. Bush/Rice need to make nice to Arab world and so they push Israel, the sacrificial lamb. All of this was entirely predictable by all but the White House.

accept the Prince of Peace as your Messiah.then you will have peace.giving up the west bank in exchange of peace,won't give you peace,but sorrow.

She's a part of the clique that swore to high heaven that Iraq had WMD's, lying to America and fooling us to get into the Iraqi quagmire-- More than 3000 American dead on that battlefield, and still counting--Veracity isn't one of Rice's forte's--At this point her efforts are devoted to leaving Bush a heritage of some sort that isn't totally tainted with international meddling and failures--

Israelis are prepared to give up the West Bank for peace. Palestinians are prepared to give up peace for the West Bank. Israelis are prepared to resolve the conflict by partitioning the land into two parts. Palestinians are prepared to resolve the conflict by partionining their enemies into two parts.

Fear Not O'Israel... The God of Abraham will cut to pieces Rice and Bush and cast them into the lake of fire.. If they proceed with the sin against the Apple of God's Eye, they will not finish out the term. They are not above God and will be dealt with by God.....

and energetically demolishing the fabric of life of Palestinians which means that they plan to annex the West Bank not to give it up - a fact which is well known to Rice. Enough of this farce.

so important for the US, then Rice should speak with the Arab countries to give Israel more land for peace, not take away land for peace. The Arabs have, in my opinion, too much land. If not, the there Arabs brothers should open there borders give the Palestinians land that they can call Palestine....

and Israel goes back to Hezbollah and Iran on the north and Hamas on the East and West. Rice's idea of "Middle East Peace".

is and always was part of Israel, especially since it was gained after a war of extinction was waged upon us.

The major priority is Iran's potential of attaining an atomic bomb weapon within 2 years--Despite endless posturing and threats by Dubya to stop the Iranian's, they're proceeding merrily on their way to their atomic goal-- The situation in the West Bank is small potato's by comparison--Even if she were able to settle the West Bank problem, the Iranian's will go ahead with their intentions--Annapolis is merely a ripple in the water, an attempt to deceive the World that Bush is able to complete something he's started, and to divert attention from Afghanistan & Iraq--Annapolis is a smoke screen, deceiving nobody--

Only a referendum will determine what a majority of Israelis are prepared to do. I daresay that if the U.S. had undergone the same trials and tribulations as Israel, they would never consent to a roadmap for a hostile state on Israel's doorstep. Israel pulled out of Gaza and as a gesture of thanks it receives continuous rockets over the civilian population of Sderot and its environs. Israel witnessed the American pressure for free elections for the Palestinians, who freely elected Hamas to the helm i.e. outright war against Israel. What is to prevent a Palestinian State called Hamastan? Non-compliance with Bush's roadmap? Then be it so. Only Israel can prevent such an above catastrophe by holding its own, something it has not learned to do in all its 60 years of existence.