Religious party leader: Same-sex families undermine Judaism

grow up!!! If you believe so much in G-d. Then you should know that everyone was created equally. The world is a colourful reflexion of G-d. White, Black, Brown, Yellow, Red, Men, Women, heterosexual, homosexual, right-handed, left-handed.

It is non sense. A couple is man-woman. Same sex exist but is is called gay, omo, lesbians whatever you want but not a family.

we are a gay couple and about to adopt a child, and we are going to raise him with jewish values in an open minded enviroment. Viva the freedom for all!

Richie, live a poor Good, He don't care about it, but if you come in Italy, I will be proud to present my Sodoma & Camorra family, then you'll stop immediatly to think about Sodoma & Gomorra! Happy S&M Gay 2008!

I happen to have seen TZ for gay couples that say married. As they had to marry outside the country Israel recognized their union. Israel does not happily recognize secular unions within its borders. It is common for people not wishing a rabbinical marriage to go to Cyprus or other parts of Europe. The fact that Israel recognizes these marriages whether gay or straight is a good thing. To say that a gay couple adopting a child undermines Judaism is dead wrong. It allows people to be loving wonderful parents to a child and bring it up as a Jew (or whatever religion or lack there of the adoptive parents prefer). I encourage everyone who can read English to read "Getting Simon" about a couple of gay doctors who adopted a child. One doctor is Jewish the other is not; yet the child recently had his Bar Mitzvah. It was beautiful.

I have no obligation to like or accept anyone. I can hate and reject anyone I like for any reason no matter how stupid and so can everybody else. That is what freedom is all about. Religions have doctrines, laws, social systems. Those doctrines include lists of people to dislike and reject and lists of actions that violate their laws. Religious Freedom, means the right to dislike and reject Hedonists and others. These Cultures survive for centuries and take over the entire world, because their systems work. Left Wingers and Hedonists however tend to get themselves wiped out after a few decades, because they are not consistent with reality. This is why the Future of Europe is Under Sharia Rule and America also has No Future and will be overrun by others and undermined from within.

Golda let Egypt have a Sneak Attack and started the trend of "making sacrifices" in the hopes of winning American Goodwill, making Israel weaker and more dependent on Fickle America. "Equal" does not mean "Same". Successful Cultures have established Roles for everyone in them and certain rules governing things like Marriage and Family Structure. Modern Cultures are being Overrun and Destroyed Piece by Piece for a Reason.

They are all being overrun by Hordes that do not share what little value these civilizations do not successfully cast off from themselves. Europe will abort itself to extinction, rampant sodomy and hedonism will produce nothing of lasting value and it will all end, when the last Liberal Democracy is burned to the ground and its leaders are slaughtered in the streets as a Caliphate replaces them. This will Not Be Allowed in Israel, a Traitorous Government Will Be Brought Down Eventually and a Proper Jewish Government Will Replace It to Represent the Jewish People as it, as a Democracy with a Jewish Constituency, Should.

Nonsense. Nobody chooses to be gay (or not to be gay for that matter). Gay people have no choice in the matter. Let them live and have the same rights as everybody else. Trying to stop same-sex marriages is as obnoxious as trying to force Orthodox Rabbis to perform same-sex marriages!

please use smaler wurds so i kan unnerstand eezier

As I see it, the issue here isn't whether they should be allowed to adopt a child or not. The issue is to define Israel as a state. Is Israel a Jewish state? If so, then the laws and moral guidlines should follow the Torah and Talmud, anything else whould be a humilation to judaism. But if Israel is a secular state, and the definition of Israel whould be a democratical state with the majority of the population beeing jews, then the law should allow such marriages and family laws. Any thing else whould be a discrase to the democratical values. You see, to have a state based on a religion, you can't implement 100% democracy, as that whould demand the equal rights for every minority such as homosexuals. So Israel has to pick, judaism or secualrism?

If Haaretz has its way, Israel will disappear and I haven't yet noticed one Muslim country which allows homosexuality, let alone same sex marriage. There is no same sex marriage under sharia, so Olmerts gay daughter should really be on the front lines fighting for Israel like crazy.

Why do Israeli use the term jewish for religion AND ethnic background. Shouln't they call their religion jewish and their ethnic background rather hebrew instead?

Does my eating pork make it less Jewish?

Marriage is a legal union of a woman and a man. Same-sex couples are something else. It's not marriage. Maybe some sort of contractual basis can be formulated to satisfy the needs of people who want to participate in same-sex unions. If we permit same-sex marriage the next logical step would be to permit incestuous marriage. After all, the arguments are the same: namely, that consenting adults should be permitted to engage in any union that they see fit and receive legal endorsement for that union. Do we want to see adult brothers and sisters wed? Brothers and brothers? Sisters and sisters. Parents and their adult children? Sick! And how about polygamy? As far as adoption of children by same sex couples go, if the adoption is in the best of interest of the child, all other options having been considered and discarded as less good, why not?

Lets be clear about one thing - becoming a parent is not a human right, it is a g-d-given gift to men and women who choose to rear and foster children. The question of what is natural is moot. The question is what Hashem says. This is the holy Torah. And the answer is crystal clear. That withstanding - the hatred expressed by some talkbackers against fags is not good either.

....civil recognition for adoption, inheritance, visiting rights, etc.... Right, it isn't merely about sex after all. I hope they got that recognitions in the near future, if those are the real socio-cultural consequences. Pretty hard to bare. Refer to Ollie (#35), God doesn't give us reason why a same sex is bad. Unlike abortion, for instance, this isn't human-made "sickness"/choice, since animals too have this "illness". Will God punish something that isn't a choice? I'm afraid this anti-same sex isn't based on GOD "POLICY," but our interpretation on that.

is a nasty phenomonom for most religions! christian, moslems and jews alike. The conservative among the religious just don't like it. When in reality they should only care about whether a couple is genuinely dedicated towards each other and is leading a good life!

Compassion is foremost. The problem is that the two sides have no shared vocabulary. Of course homosexuality is not a personal choice but that persents a problem for these fundamentalists who absolutely need to see it as such, or if it is acceepting by them as being inate and nothing but a burden to be lived with without any form of sexual expression.

and it would cease to be a problem

Orlev is a moron if he thinks sexual apartheid such as the type he proposes will benefit Judaism. Homophobia delegitimises Judaism. Just as it delegitimises all religions who support it. No wonder young people are becoming less religious when religion is so obviously nothing but an excuse for bigotry and hatred of other groups.

They have no civil recognition for adoption, inheritance, visiting rights, etc. Hence, in areas of personal rights, everything in Israel is dependent somewhere along the line on the religious recognition which controls those social aspects of life.

Hi Yakoov, thank you for the explanation. You are right about that many of the laws are not explained. And off course, g-d the allmighty does not need to explain anything to us. but still there is the point of unjustice, when someone is damned for something he or she cannot change. Sometimes it seemes to me a more a sin, to obey to a law, written in an old book more than to obey to normal human compassion. Don't you go the easy and heartless way, when you judge someone without reason, just because it is written in the book?

At last some sense out of all this maddness. I agree with your comments that Israel is NOT a religious state but rather the state of the Jewish People. Everyone should be able to lead their life in the way they wish to within the boundries of the law of course. As a gay man i respect your comments, you see we are all people at the end of the day and yes it is possible to live together, you at least have my respect. BTW my parter is religious !

I don't understand why a same sex couple needs a religious recognition for their married. Do what they want to do. They don't care about religious values, why do they need such recognition.

that Israel is NOT a religious state but rather the state of the Jewish People. The Jewish People of course indludes believers and non-believers, Orthodox, Reform, Conservative, Reconstructionist and Humanist Jews. Jews from Africa and Jews from Asia, Jews from Europe and Jews from the Americas. This is the Jewish People, the nation-state of this collective, and this is how it should be perceived, by all.

Hope it is corrected soon.

There are no reasons given for most of the laws in Torah. Notcooking meat and milk? Not eating shellfish? Not mixing linen and wool? These laws whichh hold no explanation are held in higher honnour when observed precisely because there are no reasons for them. That is built into the religious system to make sure they are observed by the faithful. Male homosexuality is banned and subject to the death penalty because it apes the procreative act without issue. Same reason lesbianism is not subject to the death penalty and is meremy looked upon as something inappropriate, yet not allowed, for a Jewish woman. The Torah sees the coupling of two males as a mockery of God as Creator.

The Magna Carta is also a pretty old document. Why do we base our government (ultimately) to that yellowing piece of ancient parchment?

The very problem seems to me, that the Torah judges homosexuality as bad, BUT DOES NOT GIVE A REASON for it. I mean: The homosexuals do not have a choice. They are what they are. It simply cannot be healed. And all the orthodox people know that off course. And they know that it is heartless and cruel to judge about someone, who does not have a choice. G-d has not explained so many things. Why did he not just say: "Abortion is a sin" or "The mother should decice" The law is so unclear. And if clear it seems unjust or cruel. What do you orthodox think about it?

that this has absolutely SFA to do with you Yakoub/Yankele/Jack

Please dont insult the Nation of Israel by comparing it to U.S.A. (I'm a born and bred Sri Lankan, BTW). Please keep in mind the Lord Jesus IS an Israeli citizen. The ignorance of a handful of High Court Judges doesn't change the fact that Jews are God's chosen people.

For the Orthodox Establishment, in both Israel and the Diaspora, this is a kulturkampf, nothing less. They cannot give an inch. Thhey hold the Torah to be immutable. It cannot be changed. Neccesity can force reinterpretation, such as the question of interst on business loans in a commercially complex society, but change is not possible. Most Orthodox today are not willing to agree on rabbinic authorities knowledgeaable to bring about reinterpretation. Every generation from receiving Torah becomes less connected to it in terms of serving as definers of authority. Human rights are human institutions based on gentile norms that have no effect on Jewish life, regarding personal status. This is their most expansive view, which can often be combined with the same vulgar, soulfelt revulsion towards gays that religious segregationists felt against blacks in the South, based on what theey too feelt were immutable principles from God.

What gives you the right to judge us by your so called religious moral standards? Did i say we live our lives according to the Torah? Did i say i accept the commandments? Please keep your religion of hatred and intollernce out of our lives. If you wish to lead your life according to a collection of "fairy tales" that has no relevance in the modern world , fine but butt out of our lives buddy !

Geee thanks for your posting of hatred towards your fellow human beings. It seems the Nazi idioligy is alive and well in San Diago as well as in Tehran where they hang people whose crime is being gay. Im sorry if it offends you that me and my partner of 10 years and our daughter see ourselves as a family. Yes its outrageous isnt it, what ever next? women will be allowed to vote, black people will be allowed on buses, i mean wheres it all going to lead ? Although you really need to got over this obsession you have about what 2 consulting adults do in the privacey of their bedroom. It seems you are the one with the problem to be so consumed with hatred my friend.

Other than the hatred and venom so very much the lifeblood of Jewish and protestant fundamentalist cavemen, as we see exhibited here, the problem is precisely the role of halacha in a Jewish State that declares itself to be a secular democracy following the same interpretation of human rights as Western Europe. For the Orthodox critics of gay rights, human rightss is a meaningless concept except insofar as they can be substantiated by the Toraah which is supreme above all else. For the more fanatical ilk among them, the very concept of "human rights" makes them see red and revert to theeir cave mentality. This is a dilemma Israel will have to solve, one way or the other, due to the very nature of the claim that it is a "Jewish" State forst and foremost.

I have some respect for religion's views on the greater issues of life, but when it gets down to the minutiae of the bedroom and who puts what where and into whom, it always looks and is ridiculous. It might be ideal for children to be brought up by a loving mother and father who can give both male and female role models, but we don't live in a perfect world. Lots of kids out there are being brought up either by single parents or mixed gender couples who hate each other and/or hate their children. I don't hear religious people getting so upset about that. Religion should stay out of people's bedrooms.

Would it be sin for the law enforcement wings to execute those that adopt unnatural style of living in the natural sphere of existence? Certainly these sinners are inviting wrath on themselves going unnatural way. If the state law approves the unnatural style of living, the whole state will suffer for the sin, for sure. God save the State of Israel from the harms of bastard governors and irresponsible government.

My partner has never had a relationship with a man, Rice said It sounds normal and right. C. Rice being female has a partner who is not a gay. ...

They believe in what they believe - so they are to be left alone with their laws, in which most of this country's population do not believe. Let them have their own schools, hospitals, army and yes factories, or, if they prefer another way of making their living, their own fund raising organizations. But I simply do not want to hear from them, to see them and to have these barbarians telling me what to do with my life. ENOUGH!

Same sex couples are an abomination of our G-D given Torah & must not be legalized or accepted here in Israel. The Supreme Court should butt out of religious matters, it is not their business or place to rule on halacha.

The family's name is Berner-Kadish, not Brenner. Matan is is really great kid, a first-rate athlete and an outstanding member of our Jewish community here in suburban Washington. This is because he has two parents who care and love and teach. That's what counts. He is a blessing on this earth -- and his two moms can take some of the credit.

The advance of the society is a curious path. The Old Testament was a perfect reflection of the human mind 600 BC. The stoning of the sinners is under a moratorium even by Tariq Ramadan. The Jewish and Muslim Rabbis and Mullahs are all pretty wrong in our days. But where are the moderate and enlightened thinkers? Can we hear Kant again?

People are being a bit silly here. We are talking about adopting a child, not homosexual behavior. Homosexuality is recognized under the law as permissible, and homosexual marriages made in foreign countries are recognized in Israel. Perhaps Israel may not have the capacity to perform homosexual marriage because it would clearly not be a 'kiddushin' as required by Jewish and, therefore, Israeli law. Perhaps an new Jewish oriented union made be made. Recognizing marriage performed in foreign countries, but not in your own, seems rather absurd. Nonetheless, that is NOT the issue at present. As above, the issue is NOT homosexuality, nor gay-unions/marriages. Rather, the issue is gay adoption. Perhaps it doesn't make sense to term the other partner the 'mother,' but that is only a technicality. Nowhere in the Torah does it prohibit such adoption. The argument of Toeivah is absurd, as many Israeli do not keep most mitzvos, thus, according to such reasoning, preclude them from adoption.

Canada has same-sex marriage and adoption. Gues what, we're fine. If you're invited to a same-sex marriage, you can refuse. Most religious people in Canada know religion is a matter of love, not attacking others. Besides, there are groups like Reform Judiasm and the United Church of Canada that support it.

Being a democracy does not mean you have to recognise same sex marriage or same sex adoption -- or underage sex. A Jewish democracy recognises equality before the law within the context of Jewish values and traditions. Judaism does not recognise same sex marriage and therefore Israel may have to consider a civil partnership similar to that in Britain, where Christianity also doesn't accept same sex marriage.

"Israel is Jewish Demo.not a gay Democracy" A state is either a democracy, or not. The moment you adorn 'democracy' with a religious (or any other) attribute, you forfeit it.

Remember that jesus was also a JEW.

Incest can be a problem. There was a case of a Doctor in the States who dealt with IVF and AID. Years later it turned out that he himself was the donor for about 37 women in his area, meaning they all had children from the same father. The concern for possible incest is mentioned in a Responsum from Reb Moshe Feinstein, who suggests a non-Jewish donor is preferable to minimise the likelihood of incest.

This guy is clearly a bigot who is intolerant and has similar ideas to the Iranian Mullahs.

My point was that the second woman can have some legal status as an adoptive parent -- but can never be the legal mother. I have stepchildren, but I am not their legal father. I am not trying to make life hard, just to find a legal solution that does not defy biology or offend against Jewish values. I myself am Orthodox, but I accept that civil law may not always coincide with Halacha.

The religious dogma is clear about this as it is about everything else: God made Adam and he made Eve. End of story. How can God be wrong?? He can't, of course. That's why homosexuality is a disease that can be cured with medicine. Or haven't you heard?

reply to all posters and pseudo-intellectuals re.gay marriage.since you have willfully and deliberately chosen the dead-end path of same sex marriage, making you essentially unable to procreate on your own, give it up,enjoy society's tolerance of your sick,perverted lifestyle,count your blessings that you're not being locked up or stoned to death and simply adopt a pet,because frankly you're unworthy and unfit to adopt a human being.

A Former Israeli education minister has accused the US secretary of state and Israeli Foreign Minster of having a sexual relationship. Limor Livnat, who is an Israeli Knesset (parliament) member, has told Benjamin Netanyahu that Condoleezza Rice and Tzipi Livni have sexual affairs. Meanwhile, an American newspaper has quoted Rice as saying that she is a lesbian and has bought her partner an apartment in New York in order to engage in sexual conduct. My partner has never had a relationship with a man, Rice said

Self-destructed Jewish leaders. Notice what happened the last year? In their effort to copy goyim, the leaders of the state allowed a parade of toeivot in Jerusalem. The Arabs made death threats, so the parade pointedly avoided it's original path of the Old City. What happened 6 months later? Annapolis. Divide the city. Give the Har haBayit to the Arabs. Why? Simple. They protect G-d's city better than the Jews do. keep at it they'll lose the whole state.

Certain barbaric parts of Judaism should be undermined...modernized with democratic thinking and ending the enslavement and 2nd class position of women...in all societies...in ALL religions...the arab world would be a 180 degree different world if there were the equalities of the sexes. God bless Golda! z

I don't have that in my Torah, or Talmud. The Torah is clear about the sin of homosexuality, but nowhere does it mention that gay couples undermine Judaism. The very most it says is that men should leave their parents house and cling to their wives. But, what does that have to do with adoption? Further, these women will live together either way, so what's all the fuss about, you aren't stopping anything? Israel is not a theocracy, and NRP,UTJ, etc should stop pretending that it is, or ought to be. Torah is not the law of the land; even if it were, that has nothing to do with the issue. Instead of preaching bigotry to disaffected Jews, why not trying being of the 'student of Aharon' who 'loved all people, and bring them closer to Torah.?'

ISRAEL. THE UNITED STATES. SODOM AND GOMORRHA. HELLBOUND. GOD'S JUDGEMENT. LIVING HOPE IN JESUS www.livinghopeinjesus.com

Once again the risk of incest is so unlikely that is it a poor excuse for blatant homophobic discrimination. The child can easily be told whose genetic material they contain so as to avoid the problem. Maybe they don't care who the father is. Maybe they do but his relationship to the child does not need to be legal. Who is the state to impose impediment to any individual's or couple's well being based on religious values that are not part of secular law? Who are the religious to demand of the secular to follow their laws? How dare anyone try to keep another person from happiness out of spite!

You can't have two mothers and no father. The second woman can be a co-adoptive parent, but not the mother. Does no one care who the father is? Was he 'just' a sperm donor? With a sperm donor there is a risk of incest. This is not a simple matter.

This isn't the first time that the government has contributed to the court system's crippling overload by insisting on its right to be nasty, greedy or small-minded. It is also biologically impossible for two white parents to have black children. The petition is another instance of Israeli "creativity" in racism. We're more dangerous to ourselves than Radio Maryja is!

These transparent tactics of blantant discrimination can put the child's well being at risk. The need for 2 responsible (legally recognised)parents (whenever possible), is essential to the well being of any child and provides protection in the event of a tragedy when one parent may become seriously ill or die. There have already been cases in other countries where children have been given over to the care of elderly relatives or the state, rather than to a parent who is already taking responsble care of the child just because permission for legal adoption was witheld. What's more surely the Interior Ministry has an obligation to recognise a legal adoption which took place in another country, just as it is required to recognise marriage and divorce which takes place abroad??

This case just highlights how behind the law really is and should be recognised as such. Good luck to the couple and i wish them and their new family luck and success. In my eyes you are more than family !