Rabbi Yosef: Secular IDF soldiers are killed because they aren't observant

is this the same god that allowed millions of hassidic jews to end up in the gas chambers.

It seems clear that Haaretz sends a reporter to the rabbi's classes with the aim of extracting a "scandelous" staement. If there wasn't such anti religious prejudice by Haaretz, it would put this statement into the context that Eli Yishai did. Rabbi Yosef uses a different vacaulary than the Ashkenazi rabbis, but he loves all Jews. Haaretz gets a rise out of inflaming anti religious sentiments. Today we don't have old time apikorsim who actually saw observance, so you are driving away secular Israelis from any spark of Judaism. The problem is not the rabbi, it is the secular media.

is an embarassment to all of us, he spouts such nonsense for years. Can somebody demote him?

He doesn't tell Israeli's to go out and kill and if they themselves are killed, that they'll get the usual quota of 72 Virgins...

The first problem is that ultra-Orthodox are not educated to work in the wider world, and therefore are forced to be scholars because that is their only economic option. It is a fact that many people in those communities would like to go to the army and work, but cannot do so both because of pressure from their communities and lack of secular education. On the other hand, the secular Israel is facing a serious ideological vacuum, manifested in part by the serious violence and drug-addiction problems among youth (these problems are far less serious among religious youth). This vacuum is epitomized by people leaving the country (the best schools loose up to 65% of graduates to emmigration). In Amnon Yitzhak's words: "explain to the youth why to live in Israel and not in New York". Both of these problems are realistically solvable. The ultra-Orthodox must be forced to give options in education, and the secular must be exposed to Judaism. Each group holds the key to the other's success.

...so he doesn't tell people what they want to hear. He says what he thinks. I don't agree with all his statements, but I am 100% sure that he cares far more about those "secular soldiers" than anybody in the government. To anybody who makes fun of him, I challenge you to ask him a question or debate him on anything if you have the chance. Then you will see who is actually "backward".

"Did I say my view was the Jewish view? No." Therefore, we agree. Your view is not the Jewish view.

You summed up the last 283 posts very nicely..well said.

They make the rest of us look like fools and they make themselves appear as foolish as Iranian Ayatollahs. Anyway, weren't some of the religious kids in Israel getting out of serving in the army until recently? Am I right or wrong? Besides, if you're sound spiritually then you just go on. Nothing can protect your body aside from what your intellect or tech can give you. If you make it out of something alive, it's just a big mystery. You blame it on luck, smarts, instinct, or religion. That's natural. But this blab is dumb. What we learned from 9/11 is simply this. A good offence is the best defence. That's it.

The comments sparked wide criticism May the Almighty have mercy on them and bring them back to religion. "Proverbs 3:5-6?Trust in the Lord with all your heart, and lean not on your own understanding; in all your ways acknowledge Him and He shall direct or make your paths straight." Imagine the riches of such a verse to the country and our souls and the world at large if we can heed. Each of God?s commands are followed by a promise, nothing bed of roses. On soldiers deaths, all over the world people are dying like rats and the numbers are growing every day unnecessarily out of ignorance. Israel is the tip of the ice berg as usual.

The problem here is that the Rabbi's comment insults a vast majority of Israelis. What about those, who are in the army, but not Jews? Are they killed because they are not even secular Jews? Whatever happened to "Chesed","loving kindness"? Doesn't it comprehend all the people regardless what they are or believe in? Traditional Judaism needs reforming, BADLY! The problem with it...like with all the main-stream religions, is that it has been created by men, whose perception is limited, because they cannot comprehend abstractions. Men only understand what they can see and touch, create with their hands or minds, hierarchies and that's it. I am for a new WOMEN's religion, where G-D is not served through ritualistic behaviour, but where good, loving deeds take precedence. Where we SEE with the heart and are capable to step into another person's shoes and empathize. Where being a "Mensch" to EVERY person and common sense are enough. I think G-D would love it! Isaiah 58:6,7.

Until we meet again Rabbi Yoseph and the Minister Eli Yishai. Waiting for more pearls of wisdom in the future. I saw a religious bereaved SOLDIERS MOTHER having lost her son in the Lebanon war in tears with the shass leaders words. So all these 280 responses into the garbage and shass continues as if nothing had happened. HAARETZ IS IT REALLY WORTH RESPONDING?

Help yourself and god will help you! Ovadia did not know this basic one but for sure he won't understand. These guys should get wisdom after a lifetime studying religion, ovadia still have a long way to go.

poor old yossef needs some rest is there a good beth avoth for him

poor old yossef needs some rest is there a good beth avoth for him

I am not surprised at all by Yossef's declarations about religion and killed in war. The opposite, a humanitarian or an intelligent statement, would be a surprise. It is said: this man just needs horseshoes and a carriage to pull.

we say in spanish the pig is not guilty the guilty one is this that feed him. it is our politicans that feed this senile megalomanic so call rabbi the guilty.The poor so call rabbi is is not a rabbi,not sefaradi{he comes from Irak,nothing to do with spain}he use a uniform that used the bashi rashi in turkish time and have not rigth to use it Deri the clever knew how to refrein him.Goren knew how to put him in his place{den he craied} and Ishi tray to explai and am Israel pay the unworthy price

I said one day "public," meaning the congregassion as a whole confesses publicly. Nevertheless, those who cannot make it to synagogue, can pray in private. Obviously, making amends is a continuum. Under Jewish law, it means making "Teshuva," returning to keeping the mitzvot. Since under Jewish law there are 613 commandments, "sin" has a particular meaning. Generally speaking, Jewish law attempts to prevent sinning. As I had said previously, a "sin" against a human can be made up only to the human, not to G-d. This subject is way too complex for posts. Just keep in mind: 1 Those that keep the seven Noachadic laws are worthy of the world to come; 2 to "repent" one has to cease the forbidden act, regret the act, confess before G-d, resolve not to repeat the act. One of the most important commandments: "Treat thy neighbour as thyself."

"Western Christian civilizations " means states where Christianity is the dominant religion. You are wrong about divinity students. I was a divinity student in the 1950's and my status was '4D' the number '4' means exemption like '4F'.eg 4D=4 Divinity 4F=4 Physical.

Is the secular press not a 'monolithic religiouis hating bloc'? I think that it is.

"Meanwhile, the committee unanimously appointed three rabbinical judges to the Great Rabbinical Court Monday. All the judges - Zion Algarbali of Jerusalem, Menachem Hashai of Haifa, and Zion Boaron of Petah Tikva - currently serve as heads of regional religious courts and are Shas candidates." So I understand, does that make Shas parasites or the secularists into prostitutes. I'd say it makes them into partners. All this is just a little festival to let off steam and to knock over the straw man that the left wing media likes to set up. After all, Chodesh Elul, Slichot, ... tikun olam.

Mr. Levin, The fact that the Rabbi's word have all those attributes should not in any way decree that the Rabbi is himself any of those things. We have all said hurtful things. We have all said things that didn't come out the way we meant them. We don't recognize our own prejudices and we always see the flaws in our neighbor. And yet we can, with the kind forebearance of our friends and neighbors, muddle along enough to create a good and valuable life in service to our Lord and to others. Peace. Steve

Actually it has nothing to do with belief. More haredim would be killed if they bothered to serve instead of leach off the rest of us. Those that do serve unfortunately also suffer casualties just like everyone else.

Ms. Kohn, "In Judaism there is one single Day of Atonement which is public." And yet there is not one single day in which atonement is not appropriate. Repentance and atonement are always available, everyday. Peace. Steve

...Perhaps you have to be Jewish to contribute to it.... I sent once, and Haaretz published it (# 34)immediately. After 1,5 years, probably my comments almost like Jewish right now. So, I got Haaretz.

Tosefta, Separatism and superiority are not equivalent nor are they interdependant. Separation is a commandment. That does not in anyway indicate that a particular is superior to another it does indicate that one form of worship may be superior to another. In the days of Moses people worshipped a golden calf. This form of worship was often used as a tool of oppression. Only the wealthy could possibly control that much of such a valuable. The Torah teaches that righteousness cannot be purchased. We have since discovered that the wealthy can pervert any form of worship into a tool of oppression. Thus we can maintain separatism and still recognize our own flaws and remain humble. Sometimes separatism is necessary but superiority is just delusion. Peace. Steve

The squatters on Palestinian land must retreat. While the violence on either side cannot be condoned, it is Israel/America who play the manipulating games to suit their own ends, namely, taking from the weak to support their elitism. Please note, I am talking about the political architects of greed, not the ordinary people. By the way Peter, on a happier note. Do you ever listen to John Safran and Father Bob, Australian Tripple J radio Sunday evenings?

Is he sane, or what right does this man to be called a rabbi? This is not the first time that he has done this. He is not misquoted, and not misinterpreted, he willfully hurt the families of those of our boys who were killed. His aims are evil, and anyone who supports such a person, sits in the same place. Many religious soldiers were killed, what does he have to say to the families? He should retire, quietly, and tell the entire State, that he regrets his evil ways.

What a terrible thing to say about non-religious soldiers...in fact, Michael, in this thread, wrote to me that this rabbi also called the Holocaust God's punishment to non-religious Jews! What's incredible is that he is even quoted at all...

Hello..nice to see you! I've forgotten what he said to me but it happens all the time here...hope you are well. Yoni has been telling me about observing Shabbat...the times, the candles, the prayers, and what isn't allowed and what is. It is fascinating to me...:) Best regards, Silvienne

You are probably right that the Rabbi meant to unite. Nevertheless, as former Chief Sephardi Rabbi, and as an important political personality, he should have refrained from saying that which could only hurt the secular soldiers and their families, especially since there are at least three in captivity, and many who gave their lives to the country. His pronouncements about the Holocaust are also controversial for many. As for the draft: Israel is not like other countries, in that she is under constant threat; there are too many who use yeshiva study as a way out of the draft, and that is not fair to those who cannot get deferments otherwise. By definition, the draft does not ask who will make a good soldier. It is the role of the army to make all draftees into good soldiers.

is dark age pronouncements should not be taken seriously. He should not be taken seriously.

"The man should be institutionalized" Or he should be forced to serve in the IDF. His comments about the non-religious soldiers were shameful.

This man should not be a Rabbi. I thought it was awful enough what he said about the IDF soldiers who do not practice religion, but what you wrote absolutely shocked me..to actually have the nerve to say the Holocaust was god's punishment to Jews for not keeping Halacha (is that a religious commandment?) You're right about the Pope saying something like that, and what if the Christian right here in USA did! There would be an uproar, and rightly so. I am very sorry about your brother, three years old, what a terrible tragedy...people like this man making those sort of statements should be totally ashamed..there was a professor here who said something similar about 9/11 last year..that we deserved it. But at least he wasn't a priest... let me say again how sorry I am about your brother, regards, Silvienne

"I have every right to my own opinion on the matter." - C.J. Cone Of course you have every right to explain any event the way you want to. You can even make up your own religion. It's a free world. We are not dealing with your right of free speech. We are dealing with you saying about Rabbi Yosef's explanation: "this is not the way of the Jewish religion", because this is exactly the way of Jewish religion. Just because you don't like this part, doesn't make it non-Jewish. You and Danite are too ignoramuses in Judaism (and you even more than him) who decided to be defenders of a faith you don't even know. Too bad. Apologists must first learn the subject they should be trying to defend. As far as Vicarious suffering, here is what I said: "My own preference is the minority biblical view, of vicarious suffering, which the Christians picked up. Some people die in order to atone for others (see Isaiah 53)" And here is your comment: "The Jewish religion does not recognize "vicarious sins," i.e., suffering for the sins of others. Even in the Christian religion, such suffering is exclusively that of Christ. " Did I say my view was the Jewish view? No. I don't need your incomprehension to come and confuse everybody about what I (me) say. You can develop your religion but I can develop mine. And when I speak of mine, I base it on actual knowledge (such as that the traditional Jewish view of the Servant is that he represents all of Israel, or the righteous among Israel (a set of individuals)). This is not what you think, based of ignorance. Know your place, Dumbird, and don't let your poop stick to my shoes. You can relieve yourself on your own path, not mine.

About Rab. Yosef I can say that his words are: repugnant, revolting, disgusting; ugly, loathsome, unsavory; loath, repellent, sickening

Thank you for your question. In Judaism there is one single Day of Atonement which is public. The Rabbi/Cantor have only the role of officiating. The Atonement itself is addressed to G-d: "Hear, O, Israel, the Lord our God is one God." The prayer for Confession has at the beginning: "Thy name hath ever been He, who forbeareth transgressions. O hear our supplication when we stand in thy presence to pray...." Many of the sins for which atonement is sought or made are sins which have an action part, and a thought part, but many are thoughts. Example: "For the sin which we have committed against thee with evil imagination. And for the sin which we have committed against thee, either knowingly, or without deliberation." The prayer of Confession tries to take into account all possible sins, both in act and in thought. As I said, the prayer is addressed directly to G-d. I hope this helps. Regards, Cipora

6. "Since according to you anti semitism was caused by "Jewish superiority and seperatism" do you then say that your own familly brought it on their heads?? It would seem to be the logical conclusion" - Danite I will do this demonstration in order for the public to see how sad a comprehension-challenged mind looks like. As to Danite, he wouldn`t get it. Quoting from my previous post in the sequence: A. "PART of the reason for anti-semitism is Jewish separatism and sense of superiority." - Tosefta "Part" of the reason means ONLY PART of the reason. This will make the statement that the mentioned reasons "caused" anti-semitism incorrect. What "part" did these reasons play, a half? A third? It wasn`t stated and no conclusions about the size should be drawn. B. "anti-semitism is not necessarily acquired rationally, but people get it from suckling at their mothers` breasts. And anti-Semitism is responsible for the Holocaust." - Tosefta It was indicated in my post that anti-semitism started in antiquity but was passed down the generations. It was also indicated (elsewhere) that the two causes which generated PART of anti-semitism, continued to be practiced by the Jews. Were the Jews of this age responsible for anti-semitism? Only if you know the full reasons for anti-semitism would you be able to answer this. But the full reasons are a matter of speculation and controversy. To conclude, my family did practice separatism and had a sense of superiority over the gentiles. In fact, my generation has it too. We received it from our parents who received it from theirs. I imagine this reduces the guilt of later generations as compared to the earlier ones. But some residual guilt survives. HOWEVER, once you learn a lesson, as the Holocaust taught us and not our parents, we become more guilty if we don't change our ways. You would think that this will clarify matters even to a comprehension-challenged person. Not to Danite. A couple of days later I got the following question: "I asked a very simple question, is their any other genocide that you know of that was caused by the victims as you claim with the Jews." - Danite Again he talks about me believing that Jews "caused" the Holocaust. (See part A above.) I guess , the subject must have "changed", from my parents to genocide, so the lesson does not apply anymore. Something must be wrong with that poor brain of his. I will try explaining this to my cleaning lady. If she gets it then Danite has a BIG problem. (continued)

Suicide bombers? Random drive by shootings? Wars of annihilation against Israel? Pogroms against unarmed Jews?

I guess you havent understood the simple question I have been asking for three days now.maybe somebody can help this victim of jewish history.I asked, which other genocide can you refer to in which the victims were responsible for what happened to them.Simple question.We might as well add in which other one did transmigrated souls of sinners play a part in ,as you now accpet the cretinous slanders of this "great scholar" .

1 The question is not who was Deutero-Isaiah, which is a historical question, but the interpretation of the suffering servant. You admit that the majority view is that it was Israel. Israel was punished for sliding back into idolatry. Therefore, I was not in any way wrong, nor am I wrong in saying that the idea of vicarious suffering is not acceptable according to Jewish tradition. Indeed, you have not refuted any of my points in this regard. 2 The Rabbi most certainly knows a lot of Halakha, and I know that his view is rather mainstream among the ultra-religious. Nevertheless, I maintain that if one accepts the interpretation of Isaiah, and other texts from the Torah, it can only be the Jewish people as a whole who are punished as a whole. I have every right to my own opinion on the matter. There are many who know a lot about the intricacies of religion, but they do not necessarily understand the moral underpinnings of religion. If they did, they would not make absurd claims.

It is not necessary that everyone be a soldier. Some people cannot ever be an effective soldier. Why do we fight amongst ourselves over meaningless things. Let those who have skill in Torah devote themselve to that and be as valued for their contribution to society as those that teach our children and those that carry rifles. There should be unity of purpose within the community of the Lord. Only satan works to divide that community against itself. Because Rabbi Ovadia says something that offends some one is not sufficient. Among the community it is an OBLIGATION to understand that despite the effect of some ill chosen words his purpose is unity and not division. He is motivated by his love and devotion and that is more important than a few artless phrases. Only a golden heart and not a silver tongue will suffice with the Lord. Peace. Steve

Avi, Clearly you have not followed closely the evolution of western civilization. First of all, as far as I know, no "Western Christian societies" have their own army. Only the Vatican even has its own state. The nations of modern western civilization are all secular. Secondly, in the United States, divinity students are required to register for selective service like everyone else. During the 1960's and 70's divinity students were drafted. Even today, there are Chaplains and Rabbis and Imams in the U.S. Army. They hold rank and serve their country like all the other professions. I am not saying that one way is better or worse than the other. I am a Quaker and am granted concientious objector status if I choose it without being a divinity student. I believe your impression of western civilization is outdated by about 300 years. Peace. Steve

I agree heartily with your post...the article reminded me of the evangelical right ranting against gays..

Perhaps, what the rabbi says in Hebrew comes out differently in English. Certainly the Rabbi is aware that the Philistines killed many observant Jews as did the Romans, the Medes and Persians and the Moors and Turks. The grounds around Auschwitz and Treblinka were littered with the bones of good, decent, observant Jews that kept the Torah to their dying day. Certainly the Rabbi has noted that many an evil man, even some of those evil secular Jews live long and comfortable lives. Surely the Rabbi is aware that long life and sacred life do not correlate nor have they ever throughout history. The Rabbi is not an idiot; is he? Peace. Steve

Shame, Shame, If you are a Rabbi, you should pray for the IDF soldiers who are defending Israel so the Yeshiva Boys can study the Torah and not ceiticize them. How many of these so called observant jews faught in the Independence war to creat the state of Israel- that was dreamed for by Theodor Herzl - who was tatally secular.....Why did'nt any Rabbi think of that ???

seem to get by under the "intellectual" radar. Plenty of Jews have condemned this fellow,repeatedly. Now we await for the intellectuals to ever notice any extremism in the heroes of the proletariat

Avi, Isreal is a tiny country, surrounded on all sides by peoples wishing to destroy her. You may not agree with me, but I think EVERY PERSON in Isreal needs to do their fair share of fighting off the enemy in time of war. "help" does not have to mean being a combat soldier. Cooks, truck drivers, medics, ect, are ALSO needed. I think most people believe all should "pitch in" during times of crisis. Do you disagree?

I hope your censored posts contained the usual click dribble. If is did, this would be the only that I am aware of where it was justified. Unfortunately there is good and bad in every religion . Yosef represents the bad element of Judaism. I better go get my blue face paint. Give me that old time religion

YOUR ATTITUDE IS MORE REPULSIVE THEN THE ISLAMOFACISTS. You are not worth any more of my TIME then THAT statement. OTHER people, fight, DIE, and DO the heavy lifting- so YOU can do nothing but "pray" and call us names.

3. "part of the reason for anti-Semitism has been Jewish separatism and sense of superiority. Hitler should have taught us of the terrible consequences. Instead, we are doing more of the same in the Territories." - Tosefta "Tosefta please remind the board about how Jewish superiority forced Hitlers hand against them,and how we have not learned the lesson in humility he was trying to teach us according to you." - Danite I tried my luck in making things VERY explicit: "Danite, please read my quote sloooowly and carefully, and then try to answer the following question: According to the quote, why did Hitler kill the Jews? (a) He hated them, in part for their separatism and sense of superiority. (b) The Jews forced his hand. (c) He was an educator trying to teach the Jews a lesson in humility. (d) He was an educator trying to teach the Jews a lesson in separatism." My attempt FAILED! Danite replied: "There is no difference between my rendition of your words and your actual words." I might as well talk to a piece of wood. 4. "there is a Halakhic prohibition to drink wine touched by a gentile, etc. These prohibitions were designed to minimize social contacts between Jews and gentiles. And it worked." - Tosefta (First comment) "we are concerned nowadays with stam yenam, ordinary wine made or handled by gentiles. The Talmud forbids such wines as a precautionary measure to prevent socializing with gentiles since it might lead to intermarriage [Avodah Zarah 31b] or because those who use such wines might...be persuaded to apostatize." - Tosefta quoting a source (second comment) The issue was brought up against objections that Jews were not unusually "separate", continuing with the anti-Semitism issue. Danite the Jewish Apologist of course could not tolerate any statement seemingly critical of Jews. He jumped in: "Tosefta wrong. The prohibition against gentile wine is because at the time wine was used for sacred purposes by pagans and often whole vats of wine sold in the market were dedicated formally to a god." - Danite, first response (didn`t work against the source) "The Popes in the Middle agaes.. complained to many christians were going to houses of Jews where they might form too good an opinion of them.So because Jews couldnt drink genitle wine with Gentiles they were inviting Gentiles to drink with them." - Second response (against the source) The man does NOT get it. The Jews could not invite Christians home to have a drink of wine, because a TOUCH by a Christian of the bottle would have rendered the wine non-kosher. (And I am overlooking the fact that somebody who knows little of Halakha appoints himself Defender of the Faith.) (continued)

If Israel does not fight on Saturday the enemies will attack then, Egypt learned the hard way when the yom kipper war started. Give his group more welfare and they will change their opinion

You must really love the sound of your own voice to pronounce this cretin a "brillant scholar" and to ascribe to his ludicrous views about transmigrated souls of sinners.maybe what attracts you to him his the similarities you share with him, that of a very mediocre mind making clever excuses for the absurd.Interesting to see how you ascribe some other potential cause to the Holocaust than blaming the Jews for it, but it is interesting to note that in both cases Jews are still somehow guilty of something.The only way to expalin such a pathology is by understanding you are one of many victims of Jewish history who have been twisted by the experiance.

But then, all orthodox jews have an awful lot in comon with conservative moslems. Same sort of silly dietary restrictions, dofus hangups about sex, general anti-women attitudes, and a tendency to sound like someone out of another millenium (and of course both groups share with fundamentalist christians the blaspemous idea that the Almighty is personally responsible for writing one or another second rate pieces of literature).

Sir, It was not agreement - I just have weakness for quality production ... :)

Does Rabbi Yosef shed tears for the innocent Palestinians and Lebanese people who are killed because of Israel's collective punishment policy which in turn leads to further retaliation, and continuation of the cycle of hatred and violence in the Middle East?

"Atonement is required even for sins of thought" Does this correspond with the saying of Jesus: "The thought is as bad as the deed" Regards

For once, Jon Feigenbaum, I totally agree with what you wrote. When I first read this article, my thought was the same as yours...how can this rabbi be a rabbi at all? What an awful thing to say about secular Israeli soldiers, that it's "no wonder" they die in war? This man should be ashamed of himself.

Clickfool hello I hardly think so.If you have some knowledge at all about Judaism,which judging by the various comments that come from you,a feeling I have you're cognisant,no matter how little dare I say.Certain you have not been excluded from responding.Just look at Atilla! He gets all his posts through, Being a Muslim no less for you. Worry not Clicky dear, Being denied?never fear!

The sad part is that the so-called religious leaders really believe this nonsense. I guess we all are forced to suffer their ignorant rants from time to time no matter which religion they claim to represent.

"Work out your own salvation for yourselves." This whole man-made edifice of sin, guilt, punishment, sacrifice, atonement, repentance, etc. which still persists in fundamentalist Judaism, Christianity, and Islam really stinks and is nothing more than an attempt to scare people into observing "God's Law" to save their souls as interpreted by a self-anointed clergy which has no more knowledge of God than a box of rocks. It's a pure case of the blind leading the blind. Whatever happened to God as the One, the All-in-All, Pure Being, Love, the Compassionate One, the Forgiving One, etc.? The problem is that Western religions are faith-based and not knowledge-based (except for the gnostics and mystics). At least the Eastern religions are not so hung up on the good-vs.-evil thing, but view it all as being a mutual dependence of knowledge and ignorance, light and dark, yin and yang, etc. which needs to be transcended in order to obtain enlightment. Not going to church is not a sin.

and make sure he got his medicines on time.

Will someone please shut this cretin and moron up already?? He is obviously retarded.

I have asked many times what else according to you could have accounted for the Holocaust beside Jewish "superiority", untill know you have answered in the guise of Tony the Poodle.It seems however that you would favour this cretins explanation of transmigration of sinner souls ? That you call him a great scholar despite his many deranged and cretinish remarks only goes to show that you are totaly lost in space.All because he is clever at verbal gymnastics to explain away his general stupidity doesnt make hima scholar, or maybe for you thats what is makes him as you are the same.Interesting revelations here tonight.Very interesting.You will be hearing from me soon buddy!

Dear Dr., Do you have any statistics for kipa sruga and haredim separately? TRhank you

zebulonguy Indeed I was one of the ones who mentioned it. Those brave soldiers did a tremendous job and not all were secular,BUT!Religious ones to BOOT! What would have happened without them I wonder if it passed the Rabbi's mind,and how he too is protected by the good actions of our valiant IDF soldiers.Quite right to remind people here of the wonderful Ro'i Kline who saved the lives of his comrades!He was not only a settler,BUT!also a religious Jew,who when he threw himself on that granade his words for GOD were his "SHEMA YISRAEL" on his lips. Let the Rabbi and other religious individuals think before accusations run rampant. Shalom to you Zebulonguy

i dont know where did you get those numbers about religious participation in idf, but they are not believable. since you are a dr. i expect you have clear and public sources where you got base for your statement. in any case, if it was as you say what the hell ovadia needs to say such trash. if most in idf are religious then what is wrong with it?

Funny how he does not say, "Back to Him" but instead says "religion". I hope he does in fact believe in G--...and not just try and promote religion...as if that has any answers...

If you had any real understanding of Jewish religion you would not have opened your mouth against one on the greatest Halakhists of the age, Rabbi Yosef, who is recognized by both Sephardim and Ashkenazim as such. You have the stupidity, ignorance, and Hutzpah, to say of what he says that that "this is not the way of the Jewish religion". What he says is a very proper religious view. Different people come up with different explanations, but rabbis have explanations which are consistent with Jewish tradition. As far as my own words, Vicarious suffering was rejected by Jewish tradition, although it was Deutero-Isaiah's view. Who the Suffering Servant was in Isaiah's view is a matter of controversy among scholars. Traditional Jewish view is that he represents Israel, or the righteous among Israel (certain individuals). See Rashi ad loc. Please don't try to teach me bible or Judaism. Your understanding is that of a complete novice who does not distinguish between big and small, between the fundamental and folklore. After every national calamity there are "reasons" given. Try to fit in "causeless hatred" among them. Categories shmattegories, but they don't belong here.

only too happy to milk this story to the max in order to besmirch a leading Sephardic Rabbi's name.

Jeff hello As usual yours is the voice of reason,and you are a person who speaks from the heart. I couldn't have said it better. Quite frankly I care not much about religion as such.Never even enters my mind.Whether I sin or not,and if there really is a God,he is there to look after me,rather than having to beg for forgiveness while I may not fully repent truly. That is why if I only beg God's pardon and not really mean it sincerely,then I am nothing but a hypocrite. If I sin,then I guess there will be retribution when we die.But we will never know will we?.Not unless we get resurrected. Now then,Jesus is supposed to have experienced it,BUT! Did not impart anything sorry to say. We are born to die,and as long as we harm no one,treat others as we would like to be treated,then surely this is the only example. I have run out of ideas,you know,the subject is so tenuous and I am just baffled by it...

Ayatola Ovadia speaks his offensive nonesense yet again. Does the media really have to report what lunatics have to say?

I believe that the only examption from service in the army or work - is very poor health. Nothing else, no ifs, no buts. Religion in addition to everything else must be an inspiration to soldiers to serve in the army the best they can in order to protect and defend the Jewish State of Israel. The same applies to a miningfull work. Regards...

WHEN IN VIET NAM I HUNG OUT WITH GUYS AND WE ALL WERE JEWISH. SOME OF US PRAYED SOME OF US DIDN'T. WHEN YOU MADE A MISTAKE AND GOT CARELESS THOSE THAT PRAYED DIED JUST AS QUICK AS THOSE THAT DIDN'T.

This Reb is in no way able to speak for the mysterious ways of HaShem; is he perhaps trying to become a zionist rock star? No truly religious man or woman would ever find themmselves in the position of translating and transposing HaSham into the current political situation.

Howdy Cipora; The concept of sin (and its punishment) is why I don't belong to any particular religion. In addition to "vicarious" sins, sins against humans (or plants or animals), sins against God, and so-called "collective" sin, there is also "inherited" sin which comes in two different forms: 1) physically inherited sin in which the sins of the father are punished unto the fifth generation and which has its ultimate expression in the idea of Original Sin by which we are all sinners in perpetuity and 2) spiritually inherited sin due to being reincarnated (mostly confined to Eastern religions). I will accept the responsibilty for my own sins but not those of Adam and Eve, my ancesters, other people, possible previous lives, or my country. Sins against people, animals, or plants are crimes and not really sins. How does one know if one has sinned against God? Because of some list in a Holy Book which is supposed to be "God's Law"? I prefer to depend on my own conscience of G v. E.

Don hello Just came in to shut up shop(so to speak)And encountered Cipora?s and yours. So, hee I am to let you know what I had written. Nothing gained, nothing ventured. It was simply to say to that Rabbi,that the IDF is not immune in getting killed during battle/war.Be it secular or religious matters not,it just happens. And what came to mind was one of our dear settler and religious soldier(Ro'i Klein)who won the medal for his greatest valour in his act during the 2nd Lebanon War by throwing himself in front of a grenade to save his comrades. He died while saying his(Shema Yisrael)on his lips.Now isn't that a belief in God? I suppose this Rabbi would have censured him for his bravery? Methinks some religious devotion can go a bit too far! Which goes to show that not only secular soldiers,but also religious ones go and fight and consequently die.It is all part of war and its consequences, unfortunate though it is. I had to say this and wanted it to be read and heard Don. In fact it was Jabadini who pointed it out,and I had to put the record straight. Thank You p/s Haaretz this is for Don Camillo,and Cipora..plp out it out

I'm not sure what you are trying to say. Yes there are more non-religous Jews than religous Jews resideing in Israel - so yes they probably outnumber the total number of religous jews serveing. THE POINT IS: The religous Jews mostly volunteer for combat units - the non-religous Jews tend to elect to serve in NON COMBAT ROLES. The religous Jews MAKE UP A LARGER PORTION OF COMBAT - PILOT AND ELITE COMMANDO UNITS _THAN WOULD BE EXPECTED BASED ON THEIR NUMBERS IN THE GENERAL POPULATION

I felt your soul in my heart. I just wanted to thank to you. may LORD, HASHEM, JESUS...or whoever you believe stay in your heart forever. You gave me a hope But I am just thanking Nothing else I can do more ıf I had a world I would give 51 % of it to you Thank you Dear Thank you. Good Night Clickfool Atilla Karagözoğlu

No one said that religious soldiers aren't killed in battle. Rav Ovadiah is merely saying that ifoneperforms mitzvot he might have a better chance to survive. This is a legitimate religious belief. as for Yeshiva students not serving in the IDF, in most Western Christian societies and in Buddhist societies of the East, divinity students constitute a respected social class that are deferred from the draft. That is the rationale here to. However, sinceIsraelis have no respect for treligion, as shone by these posts, there is an 'aleyhum' on yeshiva students.

Avi, I will answer your question: Rabbi Ovadia's remarks are relevant regardless to whom they were addressed. The Rabbi is a former Chief Rabbi (a State position) and the most prominent figure in a major political party whose members have held ministerial positions in the past and may well indeed do so again in the future. Why do you think that the "secular press" reported the item "with glee "? Is it not the role of the press to make the statements of public figures available to the public? And why do you perceive the "secular press" as a monolithic, religious-hating bloc? Are there not observant reporters on our television networks who do not let their faith compromise their professionalism? Rabbi Ovadia has something to learn from them. Your portrayal of the "secular press" is a product of sinat chinam and lashon hara. Go and repent.

My question is may a religious leader be a fundimentalist and exhort his follwers to repent and follow scripture in the privacy of closed circuit television while adapting ideas expressed in scripture? Sir, - Of course, it is his obligation to extort HIS FOLLOWERS to repent and not necessary in privacy. The problem is his insulting the people who are not his followers. Whether he expressed these thought in privacy or in public is immaterial. The indignation of the involved is legitimate.

"So yes, you would either need to be Jewish, or at the least be a Goy resident of Eretz Israel to contribute to this thread." What on earth are you rattling on about, Simon Jenkins? I think the only qualification required to be able to comment on this ludicrous, evil rabbi is to be a human being. "Stupid immature references to the movie `Life of Brian` can hardly be called a `contribution` to this debate." Read message 148 again, Simon Jenkins and tell me that my response wasn't exactly right. Atilla is a very clever prankster.

Finally we can agree on something. Let it be religion, if not politics.

the realization that you are a soldier naked without Torah and Mitzvot to protect you might convince you to do 'teshuvah'. That is the entire rational of R'Ovadiah who knows his flock. The whole liberal,secular, western world,including renegade Jews who threw off their religion did nothave to come downon himso hard...unless deep down they are also afraid of their sins.

Does one have to be Jewish to comment? Since one of your posts have come through, one obviously need not be Jewish to comment. Normally, I would not comment on Christian theology. What helps is being at least minimally knowledgeable, since this is really a topic of Jewish "theology," and the question is whether, if, under what circumstances, the rabbi is correct. You have to understand that people have struggled with the notions of evil, fate, etc..., since the dawn of man, and the rabbi is trying to both comfort those who might ever go to battle in the future, and also to bring people back to keeping Jewish laws. This is the time in the Jewish calander when people are supposed to think of atonement. Those that have hurt others personally, have to ask for their forgiveness. Those that have sinned against G-d, have to ask for G-d's forgiveness. G-d cannot forgive for sins committed against men, although atonement is always required. Atonement is required even for sins of thought.

"Rabbi Ovadia`s famous explanation for the Holocaust, were very many pious Jews were killed along with the rest of the victims: That generation paid for the sins of previous generations. Previous (dead) generations sinned, and their souls transmigrated to the Holocaust victims so that they could be punished for their own sins (in previous life). Not bad; show me this is not true." Someone, one of the Hannahs, I think, once wrote about you, Tosefta, something like that "you have no feelings". I don't know enough about people to state this. I just find that you use too much space. I'd wish you'd get more concise, because you are obviously capable of concision: "...along with the rest of the victims." Perhaps I'm already dead to some degree, because it was only on second reading that this expression began bothering me. By your and Yosef's logic maybe someone will have to die for our hebetude. But in the 9 letters of "holocaust" may already lie the absolution for any verbal sins to come.

It is frightening to hear the comments of rabbi Yossef!! You wonder if he did go to rabbinical schools!! The most ridiculous saying was if you are religious you will not die in the war!!!

Esther, R'Ovadiah didn't say what he said tothe general public. He said it on closed circuit television via sattelite to his folowers. Some slick reporter picked it up and blabbed to the secular press who picked it up with glee. My question is may a religious leader be a fundimentalist and exhort his follwers to repent and follow scripture in the privacy of closed circuit television while adapting ideas expressed in scripture?

Listen to this rabbi and you want to be an atheist!

should have pity on him, AND NOT REPORT HIS STUPID UTTERANCES. I heard about his speech on foreign media.

GOOD RELIGOUS BOYS FROM ARIEL WHO SERVED IN GOLANI BUT STILL GOT TAKEN OUT BY AN ANTI TANK MISSILE!!!! DID I FORGET TO MENTION THAT BRAVE COMMANDER WHO JUMPED ON A GRENADE SHOUTING SHEMA ISRAEL???

the combination of so many religions and their thoughts was interesting to say the least . however the combination of ancient egyptian sumerian hindu and buddhist theory all masqerading as original judaic thought had me confused !! it really boils down i think "to let the mugs work " whilst we pray ? many shamans have claimed in prayer to stop the speeding bullet but none appear to have survived the test !

Please do not get discouraged. It is not always easy to figure out the censor god. The other day, on brad's article, a three part answer to mark was censored, even though his post to me was way unacceptable. Take care, and regards, Cipora

Before Mr. Indrajaya, of Indonesia responds to any post on this board, he must clear our the skeletons in his countries' closet. He must answer to all the readers on this board, why 42 years ago, in 1965, his country went on a rampage and engaged in genocide and ethnic cleansing against the Chinese population of Indonesia. Hence, before he can throw stones at Israel, he must explain what sane reason prompted the killing and expulsion of innocent Chinese from Indonesia-whose only crime was that they were successful financially. We are all waiting for an explanation, Mr. Indrajaya!!

Sir, Indeed, nice piece.

Sir, Apparently Israel pleases (YHW). "SO now go and die so we can get on with our task..."

Somebody made this up. Right? If not, I suspect this guy is related to Pat Robertson and the late, not-so-great, Jerry Falwell. Religious nuttery at its best!

Does he even know who Josef is? Is he aware of the 2 'streams' of Judaism: Ashkanasi & Sephardi? Is he aware of the ideological, theological, & indeed political differences? Is he aware of modern day Israeli demography in this context? Does he know which group comes from where? I personally feel the Rabbi is delluded in this instance, but at least I was around to see & understand the issues first hand. So yes, you would either need to be Jewish, or at the least be a Goy resident of Eretz Israel to contribute to this thread. Stupid immature references to the movie 'Life of Brian' can hardly be called a 'contribution' to this debate.

Or is it more of the alleged so-called Ha'aretz black propaganda, like the one about the Pal farmer who freely 'sold' his olive trees to settlers? Somehow I doubt it. What should be more worrying for those with a spiritual approach to G-d as they understand Him, is that someone purporting to be an ordained man of G-d clearly has no grasp of spiritual reality. If what this Rabbi says has any truth in it then the IDF may as well give up and go home because their bullets, bombs and missiles will presumably start bouncing off their enemies who pray to the same G-d at least 5 times a day.

The Jewish religion does not recognize "vicarious sins," i.e., suffering for the sins of others. Even in the Christian religion, such suffering is exclusively that of Christ. In the Jewish religion, as you should know, there are two categories of sins that an individual can commit. The first of these are sins committed against fellow humans, and which only fellow humans can forgive. The second is sins against G-d, such as not keeping the Shabbat, and which only G-d can forgive. There is a third category of sins, and that is the sin of the people of Israel as a nation, such as idol worship. It is this third category of sins that the religious claim the Jewish people as a whole might suffer for. Isaiah speeks of this type of sin. The suffering servant is Israel, not some individual.

"He said if you keep the mitzvot you will be better protected from harm." S Judah Sir, What R. Ovadia said is: " Is it any wonder if, heaven forbid, soldiers are killed in a war?" Rabbi Yosef said during his weekly Saturday night sermon. "They don't observe the Sabbath, they don't observe [the laws of] the Torah, they don't pray, they don't put on phylacteries every day. Is it any wonder that they're killed? Your question "Who then is INSANE Rav Ovadia or his critics?" I (mercifully) leave ununswered.

to be Jewish, and preferably have some knowledge about ultra-Orthodox Judaism, to know what makes this man tick. And you aren't and you don't.

Is it forbidden in the 'enlightened' 21st century to be a religious fundimentalist and exhort your followers to religious fundimentalism as long as you are not advocating physically harming the 'other'? A coralary of this is does everyone haveto be 'politically correct'?

Sir, It is a rare case when your contribution would be milder than mine.:)

and simplistic. No serious religious authority would endorse such a nonsense wich has no statistical basis whatsoever.

Just when you think the Israeli news scene is geeting staid and rather repetetive, Rabbi Yosef makes yet another of his classic comic relief comments. You are so lucky to be able to wheel out this nut every so often, with his unique, black sense of humour. May God keep the clown alive!

Most of the posters find those declarations indecent and idiotic. This, should help you understand you what is wrong with them. To claim God (a non proved hypothesis) kills the non believers and protect the believers is so crude and simplistic is

Yosef has long been acting like a superstiious old man driving his flock, and it seems that he has now become a psychiatric case. His ravings should henceforth be confined only to his immediate family that is devoted to his well-being, and not be inflicted on the general public. There are so many sensitive and bereaved folk among us who should be spared the uncalled for ravings and pronouncements of Yosef.

To those who criticize rabbi yosef .. I d say you are so wrong and lucky to have those rabbis who cares about religion in a very rough century that fight any religion beliefs I m muslima and I found what he said very reasonable and we muslims almost say the same I dont think you have to be jew to comment about what he said .. I think anyone who lives in middle east has the right to comment about everything going on in middle east I think Your rabbi talk islamic more than judaism .. He sound very muslim to me .

We are equal now!!!

Rabi Ovadia Yosef's comments insult intelligence and sensitivity. While I am a religious Jew, please don't pit me together with him.

Generally speaking he is correct. If all of Israel were religious, there would surely be much more g-dly compassion bestowed upon the jews and fewer soldiers would die. In fact, it is possible that the entire arab-israel problem would resolve itself. Also, and very important, Rabbi Yosef made those comments out of anguish, brokenheartedness and despair at the countless deaths of Israeli soldiers and civilians. He desperately wishes that the non-religious would return to g-d because he truly believes that it would minimalize the killing. He did not say those comments with a desire to enflame anger or incite religious divide. On a micro level,it is altogether possible that a religious soldier would die and a non-religious would live--depending on what individual plan g-d has for them. On a macro level, Rabbi Yosef is correct. Similar comments are stated in the bible itself in Leviticus and Deuteronomy.

The good rebbe ought to put up or shut up....HE should go into combat to test his theory...if valid ,no enemy can kill him due to God's protection. The statstical probabilities I suppose are not 100% that he could not avoid combat death forever that way,but they must be close to ertain that eventually he'd take a mortal hit. If not,then God should have put a GUARANTEE into Torah: observe and I promise you won't die in War..Since that GUARANTEE is absent from Torah,I suggest the rebbe is deluded in hs thinking. "Observance" therefore does nothing to help defeat combat mortality. The onus is on the Rebbe to prove otherwise. Only fools would take him at his word.

So, this means that a baal teshva never died on duty? mmmmmm ... Rabi, i think you are wrong ...

ond more little question. then we will let you alone to let the haliperidol take effect...you don't by any chance take a drink during the day, do you, rabbi?...if so, we know some people who can help you...just a hint...their phone number is almost at the front of the phone book...

If life seems jolly rotten There's something you've forgotten And that's to laugh and smile and dance and sing. When you're feeling in the dumps Don't be silly chumps Just purse your lips and whistle - that's the thing. And...always look on the bright side of life... Always look on the light side of life...

"Shas party spiritual leader Rabbi Ovadia Yosef, a former Sephardi chief rabbi of Israel" My God, there seems to be no limit to the stupidity and foul mouth of this scumbag rabbi who for all practical purposes is the spiritual leader of the Shas party. How can a person like him be allowed to utter these stupid - present and previous - remarks while still remaining the spiritual leader of Shas. It truly goes beyond one's understanding that a whole political party can still see this rabbi as second to God and the political echelon finds it fit to kiss his behind at various opportunities to secure the Shas votes and their consequent positions. Outright disgusting and very bad advertising for Shas, respectively the whole Jewish state. Thank God that Shas didn't have anything to do with my conversion 40 years ago, these days I feel like tearing up the certificate and dump it in the garbage bin in Ovadia's backyard. With scum rabbis like Ovadia it's lost all its value for me.

Absolute rubbish..."pre used people"?

It is indeed sad to read such an insensitive statement from a religious leader that the value of a person has no recognition by god because that person is not religiously observant. This is a religous leader who should consult with his conscious to discover the worth that god gives to all persons, whether observant or not. It is a real shame and the rabbi should ask for foregiveness.

Rabbi...just relax....there, now, take a few deep breaths...we will have this jacket off in a jiffy...then we are going to give you something to relax...we are going to help you feel better, much better...a little haliperidol or risperidone to help you think better...it's going to be better...then we will see what is really going on now...little alcohol swab, a little pinch...now, that wasn't that bad was it...

Another leading Israeli daily published an article stating 40% of Israel's officer corps were religious zionist, and half of the most recent officer training class was also religious zionist. What then does this say about our majority seculars? That they do not have the same love of or belief in the country anymore as does the religious Jew? Are the extreme secular and the extreme religious the ones that want to avoid service? If so, are they not a greater problem to Israeli society than some inane utterings of the Rabbi? Have any secular politicians ever made any dumb comments like his too?

The soldiers are us. They're our young people putting their lives on the line for us, for old Ovadia and his family too. They give up years of their lives to protect us. And this old idiot makes stupid pronouncements about them.

This is the kind of fifth column that is more dangerous; when this fanatics, in high positions make idiotic statements that belog to the medieval times. Remember rabbi, secular and haredi went together hand to hand to the concentration camps. Grow up.

You are so right. Haaretz is so anti religios that they twist the words of Rabbi Yosef to the way they want the readers to understand it. Shame on Haaretz. Why don't you write the truth?

Rabbi Yosef? Israel deserves him and he deserves Israel. The same Yosef whose arse Netanyahu and other gladly kissed. Between Shas and Israel Beitenu Israel is in good shape.

There are so many stupid rabbis on the right, e.g. Ovadia, and left, e.g. Michael Lerner, that I think that we should follow the example of the Mormons, who made every Mormon a saint, and make every Jew a rabbi. It is no longer a title of respect..

The state of Israel has no reason to exist except to please (YHW), so all of you secular scum are no less disposable than goyim. SO now go and die so we can get on with our task...

The Jewish religion teaches: why do some of the good die, and some of the evil live; why do some of the evil die, and some of the good live. It is blasphemy to claim to know G-d's intentions. There are thirty six hidden Tzaddikim, and there is a good reason why they are hidden and unknowable. We are commanded to study the Torah, but we are also commanded not to make and worship idols. Those who would make the Torah into an idol, are more guilty than those who never study the Torah.

no name Nor am I enamoured at tpresent with Haaretz. I asked three times to put out my post to # 32 Jabadini.Nothing inflamatory or rude,just a relevant reply.If I do not get that my "one and only" post out,I shall just blast off and go somewhere else were i would be more appreciated.I concur and sympathize with you. it is not only a waste of our effort,but also discouraging in the extreme.

How very sad to read the stupid and naive comments of Rabbi Yosef. Life is not as simple as he would have us believe. All of our soldiers are precious, all civilians are precious, all life is precious. How does he dare infer that people are killed because they are not strict enough. Let the Yeshiva boys lead by example - instead of allowing our secular boys to carry the burden of defence, let us see them in the army defending and praying for the safety of Israel.I was in Jerusalem on the night of August 19th 2003 when the No. 2 bus was blown up killing mostly Charedi Jews who had just attended a Bar Mitzva at the Kotel. Were they perhaps too secular to be allowed to live, all the children who became orhpans that night, were they placed in that position because their parents were not religious enough? I think not.

Since the Talmudic and the (majority) biblical view is that people die for their own sins, the good Rabbi has to come up with "explanations" incorporating this view. Rabbi Ovadia's famous explanation for the Holocaust, were very many pious Jews were killed along with the rest of the victims: That generation paid for the sins of previous generations. Previous (dead) generations sinned, and their souls transmigrated to the Holocaust victims so that they could be punished for their own sins (in previous life). Not bad; show me this is not true. Now we have the explanation for soldiers' deaths. OK, it can work for secular soldiers. What do you do with religious soldiers, and in particular Hesder Yeshivah soldiers who suffer relatively high casualties? I see two possibilities: 1. The transmigration of the souls of pre-used people. 2. The mere service in the army is a sin, since the soldiers waste their time instead of studying Torah. I bet Rabbi Ovadia holds the second view. He is a brilliant scholar so he must have seen the problem. He probably believes that if all of Israel study Torah, the Messiah will be here to protect them. My own preference is the minority biblical view, of vicarious suffering, which the Christians picked up. Some people die in order to atone for others (see Iasaiah 53): 4 Surely he took up our infirmities and carried our sorrows, yet we considered him stricken by God, smitten by him, and afflicted. 5 But he was pierced for our transgressions, he was crushed for our iniquities; the punishment that brought us peace was upon him, and by his wounds we are healed. 9 He was assigned a grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death, though he had done no violence, nor was any deceit in his mouth. 12 Therefore I will give him a portion among the great, and he will divide the spoils with the strong, because he poured out his life unto death, and was numbered with the transgressors. For he bore the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.

Haaretz is afraid to publish my previous post. Does not the Rav have the right to air his world view in the month of Elul on closed circuit television exhorting his followers to repent? Does he not have the right to tell his followers that sin brings death? Does the Rav have to cower to secularist pressure in order to promote a dubious national pluralism because he might offend the G-dless secularists? Does the Rav have to be 'politically correct'?

(Cabinet minister) Yishai: "My rabbi does not err. Everything he says is the word of God." Don't let that get out. Israel is western, enlightened, rational, democratic -- and 'white,' incidently. You bathe daily and brush your teeth after every meal. Not like those ignorant, superstitious, fanatical (and non-white) Arabs. Who probably smell. That's why we support you. Don't you forget it.

ing his country also failed to observe Shabbat with enough ardor to be spared Gods terrible wrath? A decade of so ago another chief rabbi blamed the death of a school bus filled with children on their, or their parents lack of religious ardor. I lack of basic humanity, dignity and sensitivity a prerequisite for Chief Rabbi? Surely some who achieve that elevated position are endowed with basic human common sense?

Rabbis, particularly the very religious and insulated, have a language problem ; they talk in a stilted manner that corrsponds to Talmudic jargon and in thought catergories of right-wrong, sin-virtue atc. Clearly, they should be prevented from making utterances on public matters because they just don't have the vocabulary to address it. I do not exonerate the effects of their narrow vocabulary . I believe that Israel must find ways of circumscribing the effects of their public pronouncements. Lets leave all such religious stupidity to the immams.

This Rabbi is a Gadol in Torah , you ignoramous idiots who have no idea of anything except your material fake lifes do not know or have any idea of what Truth is. You cant even relate to truth.You never for one second contemplate that you to WILL die. This is exemplfied by the hate to the Rabbi. It is a method by the ego to defend its conciousness, its way of life, its nothing over all of you. If your so correct here is a question why is it that you will happily open a history book, but the Bible which would seem logicly much more intersting to open (just to learn peoples point of view), you are reppeled to even contemplate. Answer: ego/ evil inclination. It knows if your eyes were to be exposed to the truth for one second you may follow a life of meaning. ''The fool walks in darkness and is blind''. Blind i.e you can not see anything around you. ''Futilities of futilities all is futile under the sun'' (kohelet) under the sun but not beyond the sun.

I just cannot believe the deliberate rubbish, deliberate misunderstanding and blind hatred of the Anti Ovadia dummies who are responding. He said if you keep the mitzvot you will be better protected from harm. He prayed that they would return to religious ways and have a good and peaceful life. Who then is INSANE Rav Ovadia or his critics?

"they you are well aware that 70% of Dati soldiers go combat as opposed to their non-religous brothers of whom only 30% go kravi (TZAHALS OWN FIGURES" Dear Dr., It would be appreciated if you could provide absolute numbers. It is quite possible that 70% of 100 Dati soldgers is substantially less than 30% of thousand of their non religious brothers. Thank you.

I wish never seen this world. its not easy to leave. you know we also have some responsibilities. when I go to other side I will tell LORD that make me disappear from universe. I am serious. haaretz ! what you think ? did you reach your dreams ? Atilla Karagözoğlu Note : offf offff means A SOUND OF TOO TIRED.

to obey G-D in this life-dont know what more a person can do.every person is responsible for what they do in this life now which determines the reward they will receive from G-D in the next life.those that try to please G-D get the good rewards those that dont try to please G-D now and die that way-i think its harder on them later G-D knows.too many of us allow someone else to think for us-not a good idea-even rabbis make mistakes-we should read the tanakh for ourselves then no one will be able to deceive us.

Why Israel will tolerate a loud-mouth old fool that our Army has protected for all of his misguided life is a real crime. Rabbi Yosef should be immediately be sent to Gaza so he can find out why our soldiers protected him in the first place.

This is the third time I asked,for you put out #32 Jabadini.Still waiting for it and repeating is not only unacceptable,but Incomprehensible! P/S I did not save the post,cannot do it for reasons.Gets tiring for some of us,to resort to begging all the time.

Rabbi Ovadia is that particularly vile combination of fundamentalist religious leader and politician. The political party of which he is spiritual head is manifestly corrupt and would dismantle the democratic system to establish a theocracy without a second thought. I seem to remember the esteemed Rabbi stating some vicious nonsense along the lines of holocaust victims being reincarnated sinners whos souls required punishment and thus deserved to be gassed. His other public statements are equally irrational and backward. There is no place for geriatric clowns like this in the 21st century. Ovadia belongs to another era and another country. If Shas weren't a genuine long term threat to secular freedom and political probity(such as it is..) they would simply be a joke. Ovadia will not trouble the world for too much longer but his followers must be taken seriously and excluded from every government. Shas is the party of village idiots,blind traditionalists and religious fundamentalists

do you want me leave you and go back to other news sites ? just say it ! I feel you dont want me anymore. you started cancelling me. I am not in that love with you. There are many posters here, thas the main reason I am here. are there some other jew sites as you (I mean big) tell me...than I go. No name.

leave rabbi Yosef alone. ALL WORLD IS CRAZY. WHAT CAN HE DOES ? AT LEAST HE STAY OUT OF ALL DIRTS. WHAT ??? TELL ME ABOUT THE WHEATHER. ITS HERE NOW 20.16 PM. HOW ABOUT ISRAEL TIME ? COME ON... QUICK ANSWER PLEASE... Atilla Karagözoğlu

Both of my contributions to this thread, not particularly punishing (under the circumstances) have been censored. Perhaps you have to be Jewish to contribute to it.

RELIGIONS ARE OKEY TO FOLLOW. BUT !!! TAKE IT EASY. RELIGIONS ARE LIKE NUCLEAR BOMBS. THEY NEED HIGLY CARE. OTHER WISE BOOMMMMMM IN OUR HAND. I FEEL SORRY FOR HUMANITY. WE ARE ALL POORS. Rabbi Yosef too. Atilla Karagözoğlu too. You too. haaretz YOU TOO.

I am tired to see my computer shut down in every 10 minutes. I am tired to restart. so please stop. any information you need about me ! just ask to me. no need that. please. haaretz this is very serious. I am tired. since weeks it is same way. I dont blame mossad, dont take me wrong. maybe some others doing this. Atilla Karagözoğlu

The reason secular IDF soldiers are dying is because the heredim are too cowardly to serve or fight and the secular soldiers have to fight and die for them. That rabbi is an idiot.

You have your Pat Robertsons too!

why are you people so shocked? if you are so angry at the rav then you probably have no belief in the Torah as well- because all of this has been written there plenty of times. but thats exactly it - your rage is much deeper and goes much further than just rav ovadia yosef shlita. your rage and hatred is directed at G-d and his Torah. you secular people want nothing to do with them...

What a stupind comment.

I MEAN IT. I KNOW YOU WILL READ THIS POST. SO ! YOU CANT TELL TO THE GOD (G-D) THAT YOU DIDNT GET AN INVITATION ! to have THIS invitation IS GOOD BUT ALSO A BAD SIGN. I AM NOT SORRY. I am happy for you. Atilla Karagözoğlu

Yosef,with his ridiculous statement is comparable to the radical Muslim clerics.How these people,who don't work,don't serve in the IDF,just read the Torah all day can critizise the IDF that is protecting them,is beyond me.

Inhabitants of secular countries, like mine, know how important is to keep the religious leaders and their congregations far from the State's Power. Thay tend to act as deluded brain washers, who claim to have the "truth" as told to them by God in person. Their followers believe and do whatever they say, which give them riches and mundane power. In their struggle to survive free and prosperous among hostile arab crowds around an inside, it seems that israelies also have to preserve their freedom of thought and belief (already denied to the religious younger) against their own home made taliban Torah priests.

There are young men and women who risk their lives and die for their country, culture and people, and this derelic says such things? Yes, rabbi, bring more pain to the families of the fallen soldiers, if only the religiouos jews of the country actually did some of the dirty work in making the society work and in protecting it then maybe he could speak. What fool!

Rabbi yosef you should convert to islam because I do believe almost the same See how islam and judaism almost as eachother . Sinner Will never win from both side either muslims or jew ... This war is wrong ...

Tell your Yeshiva Bachurim to undertake their obligations and report for military service... Lishkat HaGiyus will give them preferential treatment, no waiting in line... The numbers will add greatly the the number of Datim in Tzahal...Kosher Kitchens are assured... Who knows, their Davening may inspire some of the secular soldiers to see the light.... Just wondering, have all your son's and daughter's performed their national service???

Rabbi yosef dont you think it is not right that we muslims and you jew fight eachother ? Your faith against our faith is wrong because we both believe in one GOD God of prophet Ibrahim which you did admit in many events and conference that you believe that prophet mohamed came from prophet ismael which either you agree or not he is the brother of prophet Isaak This war is wrong ... You cant win a war that based on violence and injustice Think twice jew and muslims should live aside without war .. Yu should respect our Aqsa and we respect your wall and your sacred places We should not let satan win .. This war is wrong .. and wrong never win .

Sorry to say outright that the influence of this old man (88 years ) Rabbi Ovadia Yossef upon tens of thousands of his followers in Shephardic sector, also as a former Shephardic rabbi, and somebody who is venerated as a spiritual political leader of the ?Shas Party? must be broken. Unfortunately and regrettable this to save the State of Israel and a large part of its inhabitants because of his ruling ??..They don't observe the Sabbath, they don't observe [the laws of] the Torah, they don't pray, they don't put on phylacteries every day. Is it any wonder that they're killed? It's no wonder. May the Almighty have mercy on them and bring them back to religion?.? T H I S R U L I N G w a s u s e d b y s o m e l e a d i n g r a b b i s i n E a s t e r E u r o p e a n o r t h o d o x c o m m u n i t i e s and C O S T E D H U N D R E D S O F T H O U S A N D S L I V E S in H O L O C A U S T, where R A B B I S L E F T T H E I R P E O P L E A L O N E T O B E S L A U G H T E R E D.

So there was I, one of the few Kibbutznikim Goyim to be drafeted into Tzahal, & not only that, I am an aetheist!! So how does Yosef (who I once respected), or any other religious zealot, explain how I am still alive, & actually thriving, both physically, mentally & indeed financially! Or could the real reason be that Haredim/Orthodox don't die in wars, because they dodge the draft????? The Lord works in mysterious ways...... PS: I would be the first to respond to a general call-up. Why? to defend my feloow HUMAN BEINGS & FRIENDS & FAMILY!!

"These fake Zionist rabbis are are full of baloney, whether Sephardi or Ashkenazi. Ovadia is a real demonic spirit of Zionism" If you really knew anything about Judaism, Israel or Zionism, you wouldn't have made a silly statement like that. R, Yosef is not a Zionist, nor is Shas a Zionist party but an ultra-Orthodox, Sephardi-Oriental Jewish (therefore racist) party.

We dont have that much good teachers of the religions today. they never stop to talk. I mean the bad ones. WE, NORMAL PEOPLE ! WHO DO EVERYTHING IN LIFE KNOW THE RELIGIONS MEAN BETTER THAN THEM. WE LIVE THE LIFE. WE KNOW DRINKING WE KNOW LIEING WE KNOW STEALING WE KNOW KILLING WE KNOW HOW TO BE LOWER THAN ANIMALS WE KNOW LOVE WE KNOW RESPECT WE KNOW SHARING ... ... ... WE ARE JUST NOT RABBI OR CHURCH MEN OR MOSQUE MEN. WE KNOW THE LIFE. WE, NO NEED WRONG SIGNS. THE GOD (G-D) IS IN EACH HEART HE IS THE ONE CALLED AS THE LIGHT. NO NEED FAKE LIGHTS. WE ALREADY HAVE THE MAIN LIGHT. LOOKING FOR THE GOD (G-D) ? LISTEN YOUR HEART. THAN GO GO WHERE THE SOUND TAKES YOU TO. Love Atilla Karagözoğlu

It is good that Rabbi Yosef has cleared the good names of hezbollah and Hamas. Clearly it wasn't their fault that Israelis have died. It is the fault of the secularists who didn't observe the Sabbath. Obviously if those who were killed were responsible for their own deaths because they didn't put on phylacteries, then the three who were captured and are being held hostage must be there for similar reasons. Maybe they only were observant once a year... Now that Hezbollah and Hamas have been cleared, why is Israel still holding a grudge against them?

I understand now why is that Mechiach didnt arrive yet. How come a religous leader speaks in such a way? Jewsish agains jewish, thats why ashem let our second hely temple be destroyed.

No wonder so many Israelis are running away from Religion, when our own rabbis say such stupid things. Rabbi Yosef should be a Rabbi no more... Igal.

R, Ovadiah Yosef is considered a great posek halakhot - a writer of rabbinic responsa, and his writings are already required reading for any rabbi or rabbinical court that wishes to make decisions on matters of Jewish law. At the same time, this man has never had to work hard for a living, endanger his life to protect his family and country, or engage in many other of the endeavors which are considered part and parcel of normal life. He lives in a cocoon. He is known for his vicious tongue and is infamous for his unbalanced outbursts, his statements against women, secular Jews and kibbutzim. In short, R. Yosef is not an ohev shalom ve-rodef shalom ( a man who loves and pursues peace)' but an ish riv u-madon (quarrelsome). S. Judah of London is pathetic in his feeble attempts at apologetics. If he were to folloe the public statements of R. Yosef over a period of many years as I and many other Israelis have done, he would realize that Yosef is not a part of the real world

If you truly are in aretz they you are well aware that 70% of Dati soldiers go combat as opposed to their non-religous brothers of whom only 30% go kravi (TZAHALS OWN FIGURES). So shame on you for trying to spread either a lie - or - promoting an opinion based on ignorance not reality. By the way - What KRAVI unit were you in? Or did you go non-kravi like most non-dati individuals - or - did you simply not serve at all?

No body knows where, when and whom The God (G-d) takes sides. The God also respects bad ones lives as the good ones. THIS IS A FAIR WORLD. EVERYONE IS FREE IN FACT. WE CREATE OUR OWN DENSITY. THE GOD (G-D) IS WITH EVERYONE. THE DECISION WHO IS GOOD OR WHO IS BAD IS RESERVED IN THE PLACE OF THE GOD (G-D) RABBI YOSEF IS TYPICAL RADICAL BLIND GOOD MAN. HE NEEDS TO FEEL WORLD ONCE WITH MIND AND HEART. HE NEEDS TO KNOW HIMSELF. THAN HE WILL FIND OUT THAT HE HAS NO DIFFERENCE THAN THOSE SOLDIERS WHO ALSO LOST THEIR LIVES FOR RABBI YOSEF ONES AS THEIR NATIONS. Everyone must be free to talk. But, those ones need to be taken to life back. mental instutitions would be good place for them. Love Atilla Karagözoğlu

More prove that fanatics in any religion cannot be reasoned with. Apparently, when God punished the US with Katrina, he couldn't tell the difference between devout Jews and non-devout Jews. What an insensitive jerk this rabbi is.

You might not agree with him, but never ever speak bad about a Torah Giant like Rabbi Ovadia Yosef. It's one lesson my mother a'h thought me that I will never forget. She was a survivor of the shoah, hade hate in her heart against the Nazis but would never ever speak bad about a Rabbi. HASHEM IS ONE, ISRAEL IS ONE, THE TORAH IS ONE

Tried posting to you both yesterday and today. What the man said was crude/rude and simply uncalled for. It goes to show even our most learned and revered are HUMAN and can make errors.

THEY DO - they mostly join a COMBAT unit call Hesder Charedi - so please don't claim they dont serve - because they do and do so with distinction.

Perhaps Rabbi Yosef thought the question asked was a stupid question, so he gave a stupid answer.

Here we have an example of how fanatics are disrecpecting dear israeli soldiers willing to lay down their lives to protect the lives even of the likes of R. Yossef. Superstition such as his gibberish must be rejected and not adhered to.

it is obvious that in war religous soldiers also can get killed. who can claim to be completely sinnless? and indeed the soldiers of Israel are meritorious for defending the lives of millions of Jews. I can understand though that the more one seeks to do mitsvot the more comfortable they can feel of winning divine help

Says the same thing about Muslims (at least as he defines them). Have Osama and the Rebbi been talking strategy? This is just one more piece of evidence that nutcases are not limited to any one particular religion.

Howdy Your Reverence; There are no atheists in foxholes. Do you honestly believe that God favors those of His creatures who strictly observe the rituals, traditions, relics, and customs of an institutionalized religion over those who do not? Isn't the important thing to comport oneself in accordance with one's conscience, try to do good as outlined in the Scriptures, and avoid evil? Of course, there's no guarantee that doing that will ensure a long life and prosperity, but it goes a long way in one's spiritual understanding and advancement. Observing the Sabbath, going to church on sunday, or going to mosque on friday is trivial in comparison. The trouble is that you may be well-acquainted with the Torah, but I don't think that you have the faintest idea of who God really is. Some people pray to God in their own way and not on a schedual, not by rote, and not in particular place. Do you think that God listens to them any less than those supplicated by more "conventional" means?

clever manipulation of the Rabbi's words to fit the Haaretz policy of creating animosity with religion but as interpreted not consistent with religious philosophy Please read the article carefully and note where the quotation marks begin and end. As Rosh hashanna approaches Rabbis all over are asking their followers to improve their observance . As Yishai states and as the Rabbis words can be interpreted it is not the individual soldier who is at fault it is the nation's fault . Read the words in quotation marks carefully and you will see how they so well fit with this . When you add the interpretation of the author (ie soldier is not in the quotation) it becomes inflammatory. What is the purpose Haaretz . to sell more papers . to create schism amongst the Nation?

maimondies writes to accept horific events as natural occurences is cruel,we are required to find explanations why these sad tidings have come about,i applaud rabbi yosefs truthful insights,no matter how harsh and painful they may be! he is not afraid of mortal men,only in sanctifying the will of G-d

it takes just one minute by a stupid follower "these are god's words" to undo years of effort to build a haredistan in israel. we always knew these guys were pagans in black hats, now does any one need more proof? if you do, you're either a fanatical blind or an idiot (wait, what's the difference?)

I am Ashksnaz but when it comes to truth, we are all one nation bound together by the Torah. The Rabbi is so right, there are tears in my eyes. It is us Jews that don't keep the Torah that are bringing all the problams upon us. TSHUVAH will help us all get through these hard times. Just like it's before the holy days, we all should take upon ourselves AHAVAT YISRAEL for every Jew and start with Kashrut and Shabbat and do just a little bit more for the sake of JUDIASM. Remember HASHEM forgives all of us on YOM KIPUR, so lets start a religious life, left and right all together. With TSHUVAH, we will not need an army to protect us. HASHEM protects His children Israel AMEN

Tried to post to you the other day - it wasnt sent through. Note all Zionists are crude/rude and I apologize for the way you were treated. I have a cousin who is a VERY important Rabbi in Israel and the former Dean of a Large Orthodox university in the U,S, - his favorite saying is RABBI'S SHOULD STAY OUT OF POLITICS - in this case his theory is 100% correct. Dash - hopes all well David

So if he cares, the Almighty will save them. Let Heloneem o national service.

...bash us some more please, I'm blinded by your clever insights!!! And other than that I grew up in a tough neighbourhood and my closest friend was the only other religous kid in school - a morrocan muslim boy. Hashem did we have to fight the schoolyard because of our odd apparel... First time in Israel I thought there would be a lot od ill will agains muslims...well there was. Only supersceeded by the 10 000 times stronger hatred for the religous. ALL religous, whether Haredi Nahal, Hesder, Tzahal or not. So for the last time: Without the religous the combat units would have serious problems! As for Ovadia Yusef he should concentrate on teaching and Hallacha, he has no scence of what it means to be secular and should stop trying to address them or their issues. He is bound to be misunderstood.

Dr. Gross - the question is not what the % of soldiers that are Orthodox but rather the % of Orthodox that are soldiers. I also wonder what the % of the secular would be.

McQueen - Before you post - know of what you speak - NACHAL CHAREDI - is a unit made up TOTALY of Charedi soldiers MOST OF THEM IN COMBAT UNITS

they hate everyone who is not like them. I feel, for the many soldiers who gave their lives (both religious and secular) to the state.

If someone still need the proof that religion makes people to be idiots - here you have it!! The probleme is that these people may be dangerous too!

To # 70 tippesh gadol is an understatement senility is probably more apt. Unfortunately those wise men don't know history. The center of European Jewry was Poland and the center of Jewish learning in Poland was Lublin. All major extermination camp were around Lublin, Majdanek, Treblinka, Belzec, Maly Trostinec and Izbica all located in the Lublin region. The more assimilated Jews in Bulgaria, Finland and Danemark escaped the gas chambers. The wise thing is not to make a statement why that or that fate befalls a group but rather perform AHAVAS YISROEL regardsless of the kippa or no kippa

Which is exactly why religion and politics don't make good bedfellows. :)

Love the title of the post! And I believe you are correct on the religiously zealous and war.

Surprised? don't be. It's the situation that's so exhausting that anybody with any brains stays away from politics.

It's sad that a great sage like Rav ovadia has reached the stage of senility where he persists in making outrageous statements that fly in the face of reality. It's sadder yet that the media publicizes his many foolish remarks and that his followers continue to revere him despite them. He was once a great posek, but now he is just a foolish old man who persists in uttering all kinds of "narishkeit". Hopefully, after 120 years, we will remember him for the wisdom of his younger days rather than the stupidity of his old age.

I give as much merit to the statements of Shas people as I do to Meretz people. Of more interest to me, and impact upon Israel, is that news reports say the majority of trained officers now come from "religious zionist" backgrounds. This shows the secular, post-zionist elite has lost its way when it comes to love of country and belief in it. Maybe that was what Yosef was trying to say in substance. Maybe those who discuss how their kids can get out of service while eating their pork and drinking their chardonnay are the bigger villains in the country than old Rabbi Yosef?

What about the majority of the rest of us Jews who also don't "observe", read the Torah, lay Tvilin, observe Sabbath? How come we aren't killed? What a disgusting thing the Rabbi says about young men and women who give their lives to keep the rest of us alive. And, of course, the irony is that those who are really observant are expempted from service. If in fact the good Rabbi really believes what he says, its time to have a Torah brigade, don't you think. The man should be institutionalized.

Couldn't agree more with Mike's comments about 'the secular fight, the religious pray'. It's very convenient when most of the soldiers are secular, to express this kind of provincial babble. When all of Israel's youth are defending Israel, let's all pray for their safety. Until then, making baseless and egrecious claims against the brave men and women defending our country shows the lack of humanity, appreciation, and religiosity this Rabbi has.

Jabadini I could not believe what I was reading. The Rabbi seems to forget that the majority of our soldiers come from religious background. They follow the precepts of Judaism and still die in battle.I am pleased you gave us the example of our valiant Ro'i Klein who was not only a settler,but a religious man.He saved his comrades by throwing himself on the granade while reciting the "Shema Yisrael". I too don't know why this is never mentioned in the article--whichever it may be. In conclusion the Rabbi is not only confused, but I find it rephrensible reading his views pertaining to "deaths"of soldiers who may be secular.How ridiculous! In God's eye during conflict military men are killed.He should know better than make such crass arguments...

I don't know why the media picked this up in the first place. Haaretz , Yedioi , Kol Israel especially Aryeh Golanwas especially brutal. R'Ovadia is a person whose world view is that a Jewish state has to be governed by Torah and Mitzvot. If one doesn't follow Torah and mitzvot, one is open to G-d's punishment. did R'Ovadiah make it up? It says so in the Torah. Look at the weekly portion for this coming Shabbat. Any rabbi who is Torah-true would say the same thing. Rabbi Ovadiah is a rabbi speaking to his flock in the month of Elul, exhorting them to repentance. The fact that Einhorns and Roi Katzs are also killed, that is G-d's reckoning. Must R' Ovadia be muzzled in the month of elul and refrain fom stating is world view in a closed circuit sermon to his folowers for the sake of dubious pluralistic unity?

this idiot has said worse. he justfied the holocaust as punishment from god for jews not keeping halacha. my brother was 3 when he died in the holocaust and this idiot has the nerve to justify hitler's deeds. imagine if the pope made a similar statement!

Rabbi did you ever heard about these to things? Ahavat Isreael and Hilul Ha-Shem if we know what we are talking about here we have a classic example of fanatic integrals that have nothing to do with Judaysm.

Yishai and Yoseph-two of the jewish Taliban, as far as i am concerned. The jewish soldiers die to defend the worthless life of the ultra orthodox leeches who do not even serve in the IDF, and, when some of them do, it's as a mashgiach kashrut, for us,. who don't give a rat's ass if all is kosher. Rabin was assasinated by one of them- why isn't one of us, secular israelis, going psychotic and treat the haredim the same way? They burned down a crematorium because they did not agree w.it. Should we burn down synagogues because we disagree with them??? Maybe it is time to revolt and get rid of the parasitic religious minority who thrives on the labor and protection of us, seculars.Remember- it is the seculars who built this country and who are enabling the haredi leeches to survive.

Shlomo, not that it's relevant here, but Shas supports Olmert's government for the lucre, absolutely nothing else.

I agree with you. What an awful thing for a man of God to say about IDF soldiers. Regards

The man is a disgrace and needs to be replaced as spiritual leader of Shas and than there will be no one to prop up Elmer other than the looney Left. You MUST see the irony. Elmer Being propped up by Two Looneys- The Left and Ovadia.

They would be bullet-proof. And if they believe so much they shouldn't be so reluctant.

is too much to ask for. the man is old enough to present symptoms of brain irreversible damages.

At least he isn't a "hated settler" and Shas supports Olmert's government. I would ask all those angry secularists to check and see who suppports who. HaRav is supported by you, you elect his followers to be religious court rabbis (diyanim) and he supports you to elect Peres. So pay the price and take his (probably misquoted) words in stride. It is a small price to pay in order to destroy religious Zionism and to make Israel safe for Palestine.

The spiritual leader of the Israeli equivalent of Hamas ought to take a look at native American history. The prayers of the Ghost Dancers did not stop U.S. Army bullets. Neither will those of Shas-niks repel the weapons of Israel's enemies. (Curious, that, as Shas is an enemy of Israel - unless Israel is exactly Shas. Sound familiar?)

I can't believe that this mishegas can still be uttered by these mumsers who sit in the yeshivas and drain Israeli society. Where was the moshiach during the Holocaust? Or, is the truth that there is no moshiach?

Instead of trying to unite the Jewish and approach non-Orthodox Jews to the Torah, they have isolated themselves and put themselves in the position of judges of the secular Jews. This is not out of Torah it is out of striving for political power and personal projection. Usage of the crown of Torah to gain personal advantages is totaly against its principles.

The fact is 70% of orthodox soldiers go to combat units - they make up a large portion of Elite units and a high percentage of combat pilots. The non-orthodox 70% of the time elect to go to non-combat units. ( BASED ON TZAHAL'S OWN FIGURES). The reason: THE DATI COMMUNITY VIEWS MILITARY SERVICE TO ISRAEL AS A RELIGOUS OBLIGATION - TO DEFEND G-DS PEOPLE and G-DS LAND. Rabbi Yosef's statement was insensitive/crude -BUT - if you know any Jewish history you will recall in ancient Isreal a COHEN would ask the soldiers several questions before they went to war. ONE WAS DID THEY FEAR DIEING BECAUSE OF THEIR SINS

Pe gadol He should go and fight since he's protected from all harm by his own sanctity.

This man is no different than any other religious zealot. His statements both past and present are as destructive to humanity as religion itself. Because, as we all know and see around the world, by all sects is the prevailing thought of, our religion is better than your religion. When in reality all preach the same thing. Gloom and doom for all but "us". IMHO, i do not believe man will survive the "invisible love fairy", no matter name you call him. I am not an anti-Semite, anti-Christ, anti-Mohamed, anti-Buddha, nor a bigot. I am an Atheist. I am very tolerant for religion. It is a shame that I will have to cease to exist to escape the hatred that all religions have for anything foreign to their "way" of seeing things. But then again, according to "god", it is, we the meek, that will inherit the earth, i just hope the nut cases leave something worth inheriting.

Such utter nonsence to comeout of a person's mouth. A Bullet or rocket cannot distinguish between a religious person or secular person.If he feels so strongly that it is because the soldiers aren't religous and that is why they die, then let all the Ultra orthodox men hiding in yeshiva go into the IDF because according to the Rabbi's logic they will be safe because they will not die, yet they hide in Yeshivas. Soldiers die because there is war, war people die plain and simple, Gd has nothing to do with it.

"most of the soldiers who died in Lebanon where religious." - Jabadini I don't know if 'most' were, but I recall that some were. "Why is this not mentioned anywhere." - Jabadini According to the Rabbi they were secular. That is the story. "Shas is one of the most corrupt parties in the Knesset and will disappear eventually when its constituents realise that it doesn`t follow the laws of the torah but the laws of power and money." - Jabadini Shas seems to have a very solid constituency which appears quite happy with it.

RABBI YOSEF WAS MERELY QUOTING THE BIBLE, WHICH SAYS THE SAME THING IN MANY DIFFERENT PLACE. IF YOU DON'T ACCEPT THE TORAH AS THE WORD OF G-D, THAT'S YOUR PROBLEM, NOT HIS!

clean your mouths out well, how dare do any of you insult the great gaon and leader Rav Ovadia Yosef! Litvish Yeshivas have a tradition of discrimination against anyone unlike them, they do not accept sefaradim besides for a token few. They are not known for Ahavat Yisrael.

What he has done is far worse than the desecration of Jewish graves in the usual anti_Semitic places. He has said that soldiers died not in defense of their fellow Jews but as punishment for their sins. The proper punishment for him is banishment from Israel. The government can't do it but, if the rabbis of Israel were worth anything, they would collectively order him out of the country. In ancient Greece, the guilty were given the choice of exile or death. Socrates chose death.

Wish we could laugh him off, Harry, but he's so deadly serious with these little homilies of his. Frightening to witness Altzheimer taking over at the head of a whole cadre of IDF-shirkers.

Do you think maybe his comments were taken out of context? Doesn't the Torah say that a person's good deeds protect him? If so, then the Rav must be sharing Torah insights. Now, of course, non-religious Jews also have good deeds (after all, we all try to do good, don't we?). So it sounds like the Rav is saying that doing more good deeds will be a protection...sounds like a workable equation to me.