Qassam hits Negev factory as gov't declares 'special situation'

the only ones who objected to the Partition.33 votes for,13against,10 abstentions.The newly liberated countries(India was one of them)voted against because we saw it as an extension of colonial policy.Much water has flown since under the bridge,as they say.Israel in 1947 happily received 181.In 1948 they declared independence.In 1949 israel was admitted to the UN,but only after agreeing to 181(which they already had) and 198(ROR).Since then israel has flouted every UN Resolution.Right now,it is in non compliance of 181&194.Re: Arab attack:there are different versions of it.No matter,right now israel has no choice.It's either the big guy who comes along and whacks it or resolutely turn to the rule of Law and abiding by UN Resolutions.Most analysts predict that in about 5-10 years israel will have no choice left.May as well get started now,so that when the time comes there will be some support from the world community.

But Israel was attacked regardless of the borders she had. So let's agree and move back to the 47 lines, are you telling us the Arabs will stop attacking? I think you are either delusional or a liar. The problem is not Israel?s borders and size but its presence in the ME. It's up to the Arabs to accept that first then we have a chance at real peace. Also, with all the "colonial" expansion of Israel why is it still so small? We all know we can take over Jordan and Lebanon, so why don't we? Israel kept territories it won in wars to prevent the same thing that is happening in Gaza right now: CREATE A BUFFER ZONE. It stayed in Lebanon for as long as it did for the reason only. We ?occupy? land that is being used to wage war against us not because we want the all Middle East. Some Honesty Lakshmi, please!

Israel should launch 100 qassams back at Gaza for every Qassam that lands in Israel. This way it will be somewhat proportional. Every qassam we fire should deliver the message that real artillery will follow if Hamas doesn?t stop.

I am an Israeli even if now I live downunder.I lived there long enough and have very close family ties there to know exactly what they feel and think. What you're saying is simply RUBISH. Hamas&Co. have vowed to destroy Israel and consider the unilateral withdrawal from Gaza as a military victory.Their plight derives directly from their constant attacks against Israel and that's an undeniable fact of life. How much do you know about Israel and its people?When have you last been there?

i find it hard to believe that you have any concept of what you're talking about; considering you're nestled safely away down under. as a matter of fact daniel, it's obvious that you're just parroting israel's rhetoric like so many of the diaspora do. i don't in any way approve of the qassams...or any other acts of violence carried out by the palestinians; but the fact DOES remain that the qassams are more of a nuisance than they are a weapon. and yes...there IS that occasional instance when one will actually make a hit...and yes there have been 14 deaths caused by the thousands of qassams fired into israel over the last 5 years...and so yes there's always that threat looming as long as they're being fired into israel. but realistically the scenerio you attempt to portray simply does not exist. numbers don't lie, daniel. bottom line is that the palestinians live under a far more realistic, AND arbitrary, threat to their lives, homes, and livelihoods, than does any israeli. what a relative FEW militant palestinians do is perhaps not the best path to pursue; but it IS a path of resistance to an oppression of which i doubt you have any concept. do you want to know the REAL truth about the situation on the ground? or are you content to believe what you prefer to believe in a state of perpetual, and oh so misinformed, bliss? because in the long run...your views are a disservice to the security and prosperity of israel... for which perhaps you have no concern... because "fortunately for you you`re not an Israeli and these immediate life threatening concerns don`t need to bother you".

""Were I an Israeli I would be very concerned that the Palestinians are willing to accept a 1 to 100 loss ratio in order to resist."" If you were an Israeli living in the line of fire of these crude rockets Mark you would be very concerned for your life and that of your children or grand children.Concerned day and night 24/7.Concerned about the impotence of the Government and the army and their inability or unwilingness to stop these rockets and protect you and your family.Concerned and angry. If you were an Israeli living elswhere in that tiny country you would be very concerned that if your Govt makes more concessions to the Palestinians and withdraws army and settlers from other areas like they did from Gaza their own homes will come under attack... This is what being an Israeli is all about Mark. But fortunately for you you're not an Israeli and these immediate life threatening concerns don't need to bother you.

you're not just senseless in gaza; you're senseless anywhere!

Where are the anti-missile Patriot batteries to knock these Qassams out of the sky? Today I read that the U.S. has pledged 500 MILLION in aid to the Palestinians-where is the anti-terror aid to Israel? Also, why aren't there UAVs armed with Hellfire missiles or their equivalent (complete with lazer target designators) loitering over the Gaza Strip to locate, target and destroy the Qassam launch sites 24/7? There is no excuse for Israel not to have UAVs over Gaza at all times nor for Her not to have Patriot anti missile batteries all along her border with Gaza active at all times-no excuse at all.

Mark, The main fact is that the Palestinian people don't want peace other than the peace of obliterating Israel as a state whether by war or by politics. Hamas, the PLO and all the other Pal orgs have it in their charters and stat it openly. Israel on the other side can't afford allowing them to establish a nation with a military threat. No one questions the astuteness, resourcefulness and bravery of the palestinians, nor their desires to live hapily. The issue is their inate desire to destroy Israel, and in that they are supported openly by the arab league and all moslem/islamic states. there is no use in negotiating anything other than some interim/temporary respite for both sides. This problem will never end until one side is destroyed because they the arabs cannot be reconciled--they can only be dominated. They are no different than any other people on earth. And thats why wars will never end --ever. Dealing kindly and humanely when winning will not purchase good will either.

...Really? Based upon what?... Probably I'am wrong. Yeah, I'm wrong,because most of them hit NEGEV, nobody was there. But nobody can convince me until now, they have a better way to remind the world that these brutal occupations are still there, live and well. Tell me that Abbas way is the better way to fight these racists (m.fs).

"I think these Qassam accuracy are a little better than one year ago." - Indrajaya Really? Based upon what? Do you have evidence, that though a year ago they could not hit a bull in the ass with a bass fiddle, now they might just graze it? From a military standpoint the qassam is a strategic casualty. It is clear that the program costs more in effort than it achieves in damage. It is strictly a political - propaganda - weapon Indrajaya. True, sooner or later, some poor schmuck will get wasted by a qassam and the idiot Olmert will feel forced to send thousands of IDF soldiers into Gaza. Some of those soldiers will die, more will be maimed. They will kill hundreds of people in Gaza, some of whom will be guilty of resistance. The majority will just be collateral damage. The war will destroy more of a devastated land. In the end Israel will still be able to act as it wishes, though Hamas might be able to claim a victory if it kills enough Israelis.

Daniel you clearly do not understand a simple truth. IF the entire population of Palestine was determined to take just one Israeli with him/her - which is to say they all were determined and suicidal as you seem to believe - then there would all ready have been a total disaster for Israel. The truth is that the percentage of the Palestinian population determined to kill Israelis at any cost is very small. "Maybe they are disappointed and irritated that Jews fight back when attacked . . ." - Daniel It is you, Daniel, who cannot accept or comprehend when someone fights back against oppression and mass murder. Were I an Israeli I would be very concerned that the Palestinians are willing to accept a 1 to 100 loss ratio in order to resist. You may think, as Hitler did with the Jews, that the world cannot exist with Arabs in it. But don't ever think that Arabs are any more willing to be exterminated than Jews. No humans ever are.

Mark Hamil, while I feel that a major incursion is likely, your fantasy plan is one born of juvenile fantasies of omnipotence and invulnerability. There have been strong indications that Hamas integrated a great deal of what worked for Hizbollah into it's tactics. The quantity of mortar fire in recent months indicates that they have managed to acquire substantial numbers of mortar tubes and sufficient ammunition that they are able to engage in live fire training against targets in Israel. Your casual attitude towards war indicates a familiarity arising from overindulgence in games and movies. Israel is not a large country. It cannot afford casualties casually. Nor can it afford long wars. The US ARMY is suffering a shortage of noncoms and field grade officers due to the protracted wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. Why don't you volunteer? I am certain they can use an armchair general who's visions of easy victories sound so very much like those of Donald Rumsfield.

I think these Qassam accuracy are a little better than one year ago. That's a progress, HAMAS. Well done.

""John Howard is no longer PM of Australia,"" Do you think K.Rudd is much better? He is better at lying and distorting facts like all leftists.Look at Bali.What a fiasco and Rudd agrees with the Americans on everything including keeping troops indefinetely in Afganistan.

but the Jews of Israel are not going anywhere.They're there to stay and quoting from one of your posts:""don`t be sure you can whack them & get away with it.These are not the good old days!"" when they were sent like cattle to the slaughterhouse

..."" there would be perhaps a million dead Israelis tomorrow "" Maybe there would be Mark if Israel wouldn't retaliate the way they do. A great general once said that you don't choose the rules of engagement.Your enemy imposes them on you. The Islamists attack Israeli civilians indiscriminately and hide behind their women and children when Israel retaliates, Their strategy:Demoralise and Destabilise Israel from within.Demonise,Dehumanise and Delegimise Israel from without. I'm not so sure why politically correct,armchair supporters international justice [for some only] living thousands of miles away from the region go along with this strategy. Maybe they are disappointed and irritated that Jews fight back when attacked and would rather see them relegated to their eternal role of punch bags of history.

to light a fuze. what would cutting off electricity do to stop the qassams? what YOU apparently want is collective punishment, a complete lockdown, a siege! yeah! that's it! and we can call it the "gaza ghetto" in defiant memory of the "warsaw ghetto". ummmm...just remember though...the qassam's still won't stop. flint and steel are everywhere; and the ingredients for rocket motors are easily had. but you really don't care; do you. you just want to make a million or so people suffer for what a handful of them do. which of course will indirectly lead to more deaths in a week than the qassams have managed in the 4 years or so since they started. you like that idea; don't you ron? makes you feel good inside; doesn't it?

enough is bloody well enough. a rubbish yard infested with rats must simply be cleared. clear it.

Like I said, stupid.

No nation would stand for rockets being fired into it's land and at it's civilians. This is disgraceful that this is allowed to go on. The IDF need to go into Gaza full force. This means bringing the D9 cat, Tanks, planes and about 40,000 IDF soldiers. Before going in the IAF and Israeli artillery need to pound Gaza for two weeks before until Hamas hide outs are rubble. Once that is done, fire on them for one more week and than invade. The fragile Hamas' morale will be broken at that point and like most Arabs they will be fleeing at that point in front of their women and children. Israel must protect Arab women and children from Arab men and this must be a priority. Arab men use it's women and children as human shields AND THIS IS NOT ACCEPTABLE! Be strong Israel! With Bombing the entire invasion will take one month and Hamas will be obliterated. Inshallah! Have No patience for the false prophets and their lies, Israel will be victorious today and everyday!

I've done nothing to twist your words, but you have managed to not respond....again, on top of which you twist the situation and make claims that are false. Your closing line is indicative of your falsehood and use of innuendo to twist the truth. asking me about sending f-16 to LA over your opinions is a crass and stupid comment. You can think the moon is made of cheese for all I care. As for deterrence of course it works...it's why you're scared.

John Howard is no longer PM of Australia, much to the relief of the majority of Australians, me for one! He is now licking his wounded pride instead of George Bush's boots!

"3. Failure of Camp David brings Sharon to power. He fights terror, but Hamas succeeds in getting him out of Gaza." - Tosefta Sharon was a reckless General, who when confronted with fiscal reality, thought in military terms. His solution to the cost of occupation was to consolidate his forces along shorter lines and withdraw from those positions which were simply not worth the cost of holding. I don't credit Hamas with a military victory.

doris dear, when you sober up do tell us all what the usa would do if the harmless qassams were fired over the border from mexico ? or if israel were firing them into gaza what would you write then. have you tried brain exercises ?

Israel deserves every Qassam it gets. Its of course nothing more than a pin prick to Israels wanton killing and humilitaion of the Palestinians .

Hey Dumbite, you want to come play with me? I have lots of plastic bones and lots of other toys too. Got them as presents from Master George and his friends. We can also play `make believe` together. Thanks for telling everyone that I did a great job as top dog in Britain. I`ll tell you a secret; that Iraq invasion was a terrible mistake in spite of what you think, and because of that my Labor party actually forced me out office, but please don`t tell anybody I am admitting it. And that peace in Ireland? Poor George Mitchell had to work like a dog to bring it about, but I got the glory, because I am always a GOOD dog. Come over, Dumbite. We can play together, we will be friends. You are also a good dog, even if you understand only the outer shell of things; just don`t bark so much or my master George will tell his Vice to shoot you in the face. I only have one concern about you, Dumbite; are you comprehension-challenged? Why do you keep saying: "You know the one where you try to get Cheney to shoot me". I am trying to warn you not to bark too loudly so that Vice should NOT shoot you, and you think that I want you shot? Well, never mind. Even if you are not the smartest doggie on the block we can still play together. I play with Master George so I can play with you too. When are you coming over, Dumbite?

I think I have it all figured out.The real reason for your insane views is nothing more complicated than the fact that you must be really stupid to believe hamas is the Liberator of their people.

GF, There was a time when the Israeli establishment completely ignored Qassam rockets and saw them as rather a nuisance. Now all of a sudden they are the national threat and focus. Yet more people are killed on the roads in motor vehicke accidents in any given year in Sderot than in the last 7 years of Qassams. There has been no increase in escalations or no deaths. Therefore, this should tell you this is much to do about nothing except peoples' exaggerations and government propaganda. Dutch

Hamas has no right to complain about Israel incursions. There should be more because there are too many terrorists in Gaza.

Hard to believe that such a short time ago this significant organization was born. Let us take a look at some milestone: 1. Dec. 1987, Hamas born and starts the first Intifadah. Until then, Israel expected to occupy the Palestinians indefinitely. Hamas changed Labor`s mind with its First Intifada. 2. After giving rise to Oslo, which was meant to bring in Arafat so that he can control Hamas, Hamas topedoes Peres chances of getting elected in 1996, by launching a series of bus bombing. Netanyahu elected and undermines Oslo, but then Barak comes to power. 3. Failure of Camp David brings Sharon to power. He fights terror, but Hamas succeeds in getting him out of Gaza. 4. Hamas gets elected to power in Jan 2006, forms a Unity Government after a while, but then stages a takeover in Gaza which causes a siege to its people. Evaluation: Hamas are the liberators of their people. If anything moves today, it is because of Hamas, or in order to counter Hamas. In the nature of things, they are extremists and may have made mistakes along this line. Example: Undermining Peres. On the other hand, it is not clear that Oslo would have gone thru anyhow. A Jew assassinated Rabin, and Likud was gaining popularity in its opposition to Oslo. Overall, their contribution to the Palestinians was enormously positive.

Sir, killing several hundreds of criminal banditry - you call them freedom fighters - is not killing of millions - you comfortably exaggerate. Why do you align yourself with losers? Are you an Arab? If yes, please consider some less violent choices.

…israel has no option left except to negotiate!… …And once Gaza is attacked israel can kiss goodbye to its own existence… The last two are the most incredible statements, even though they are coming from you. Now that you got Israel boxed in where you wanted it, the victory for your side is assured. It would be very funny if it were not so sad, as you have learned nothing over the last few years. With cheerleaders like you, Palestinians have been enjoying one victory after another and keep on marching to even more glorious victories in the future. Shows how far you are removed from reality.

Since you know the wisdom of the rabbinate... if you were an Arab what would you do?

Tess claims that the Sephardic Jews came from Ottoman controlled countries. Please learn a bit more about history. The term is the ancient one for Spain. Sephardim left Spain and Portugal in the 15th century. Some went to Holland, from where they often moved to eastern Europe. There was also a large poulation of Jews in Rome as well as many who never left the Middle East (including Jerusalem, from which they were driven out when Jordan conlquwered the city). And most of the Jews in the Ottoman empire left after 1948, driven out of their homes by the Arabs. Almost one million Jews left and they and their descendents comprise a large portion of Israel's Jewish poulation today. If you recall, the British prevented Jews from entering their Palestinian Mandate, fearing Arab anger, despite the Balfour Declaration. Indeed, most of the Mandate was turned into TransJoprdan, to please the Hashemite tribal chief, who became a king.

rockets"?their not very dangerous at all there peter,so why dont you and your entire family stand in a group and let me shoot one at your asses and that way,you will know first hand how dangerous they are and you won't have to come into this forum as show how truely ignorant you are.

you should be proud!your statement that palestinians have not historically condoned violence is a hoot,post more,we need more things we can have a good laugh at.

Hard to believe that such a short time ago this significant organization was born. Let us take a look at some milestone: 1. Dec. 1987, Hamas born and starts the first Intifadah. Until then, Israel expected to occupy the Palestinians indefinitely. Hamas changed Labor`s mind with its First Intifada. 2. After giving rise to Oslo, which was meant to bring in Arafat so that he can control Hamas, Hamas topedoes Peres chances of getting elected in 1996, by launching a series of bus bombing. Netanyahu elected and undermines Oslo, but then Barak comes to power. 3. Failure of Camp David brings Sharon to power. He fights terror, but Hamas succeeds in getting him out of Gaza. 4. Hamas gets elected to power in Jan 2006, forms a Unity Government after a while, but then stages a takeover in Gaza which causes a siege to its people. Evaluation: Hamas are the liberators of their people. If anything moves today, it is because of Hamas, or in order to counter Hamas. In the nature of things, they are extremists and may have made mistakes along this line. Example: Undermining Peres. On the other hand, it is not clear that Oslo would have gone thru anyhow. A Jew assassinated Rabin, and Likud was gaining popularity in its opposition to Oslo. Overall, their contribution to the Palestinians was enormously positive.

Chasaboy, Would you mind at all removing England from the list of countries you loathe, please? (That's hitting a bit close to home, old egg.) And I even wonder about the ethics of saying one loathes an entire country, no matter which country it is. Countries are made of people. There are both good and bad people. Maybe it's better to say we loath this government or that, rather than to loathe good people along with the bad? Kind regards.

Peter, You've done a very good job twisting my words around to make it seem as if I advocate Arab violence, and to let it go unanswered. You're wrong: self-defence is necessary in a hard world, but it must have some proportion to the offence given. Threatening having "hell unleashed on me" very much proves your attitude toward solving problems: "Either do things my way, or I'll destroy you." That is extreme, and sadly, it is also apparently Israel's way of dealing with its immediate enemies. Rockets falling on Sderot? Invade and flatten Gaza. Cross-border soldier kidnapping? Start the Second Lebanon War (for all the good that did Israel). And did you consider talking with your enemies first, before over-reacting? Ah, I didn't think so. So when are you sending those F-16s over Los Angeles to bomb me into oblivion for my opinions? MK

Margie, Asimov, later in life, declared himself to be a "humanist", rather a Jew; but his works are infused with a liberal philisophy of a sort I very much doubt he would have arrived at, were it not for his Jewish acculturation. Lakshmi and I do not agree on Israel returning to the Res 181 (1947) boundaries; I am not enamoured of Hamas and Hizbullah (although I would urge an Israeli approachment to them - talking never hurts); and I am sure I am much more critical of Iran's nuclear and foreign policy vis-a-vis Israel. But Lakshmi is a good student of history; and her opinions have an internal logic and consistency which I feel are worthy of some respect. I may not always agree with them, but I welcome the chance to discuss them with her and understand her way of thinking. Kind regards.

you can't object to.Thomas Coburn (your compatriot) is a great scholar,a great Sanskritist who has spent nearly half a century studying the tradition.His book Encountering the Goddess is a must read for anyone interested in the evolution of the Goddess tradition in India.It is not about consorts(which is there in India &in Greece:Zeus,Hera)but about the independent creative principle of the universe as female! Remarkable book,model of scholarship.Easily available at a university library or at Amazon.Not expensive.Good luck!Padmasundari is a lovely synonym for Lakshmi! literally means:lotus beauty,because Lakshmi is often depicted as seated on a lotus.

With the Winograd Commission report hanging over his head Olmert insists upon pursing a strategy and tactics identical to those that failed in the Second Lebanon war in his war with Hamas. The government is depending upon waging war against the civilians of Gaza to bring down Hamas as it depended upon waging war against the civilians of Lebanon to force the Lebanese government to destroy Hizbollah. That strategy was idiotic then, as it is now. All that Olmert achieved in Lebanon was to turn Hizbollah into national heros and strengthen it's had in the government of Lebanon. All that Olmert is accomplishing so far in Gaza is to make the wrong people suffer. The rockets didn't stop falling upon Northern Israel until the IDF overran the launchers. Olmert is proving that he might be a shrewd player at Israeli politics, but at war he is just as incompetent as always and incapable of learning from his failures.

End of Israel's existence, that is. The pro-Palestinian side apparently supports the older concept that wars end when one side wins and the other loses -- as long as the loser is Israel and here you foresee Israel not only losing the war, but her existence. Interesting wishful thinking. To paraphrase the French adage sited by Daniel Patrick Moynihan at the UN, November 10, 1975: This country is maddening; it refuses to surrender and just go away.

Mark No 20 asks if any of Ohlmert's children ever served in the military. The answeer is no. His sons live overseas (I believe in New York City); his daughter and wife are ardent supporters of the Arabs.

The strategy of Hamas at this point appears designed to accomplish several things: 1. force Israel to alter the situation by either accepting the cease fire, or attacking Gaza in force. 2. If Israel does EITHER Hamas wins a great victory in it's battle with Fatah. 3. If Israel attacks in force, Hamas - which has made a profound study of the Second Lebanon War - could well inflict enough casualties on the IDF to give the appearance of "defending Gaza". Meanwhile, In Israel: The often delayed report on the Second Lebanon War will soon be released. So what is Olmert doing?

That Olmert might come under extreme pressure to act is hard to dispute. He IS under heavy pressure to retaliate. Mr. Olmert has put Israel in a box. He refuses to talk to Hamas, he voided the last ceasefire, and refuses another. Thus the rockets fall upon Israel. His other alternatives are to keep casualties low and keep doing what is not working; or to do what he finally did after many weeks of idiocy in the Second Lebanon War. That is to send substantial forces into Gaza and push the Palestinians out of range of Sderot. Did anyone else notice that an anti-tank missile was fired at the IDF in Gaza recently? Casualties could be high if such an attack is mounted. And to a people who are used to taking a pounding without inflicting casualties, inflicting casualties upon their oppressor - even at a negative exchange rate - can be seen as a great victory.

The ideologues on both sides are panting and drooling for a 'war' in Gaza. For myself it is like watching an airplane accident in slow motion. Hamas appears to have a very coherent strategy right now which is based upon it's political situation in Gaza. For months Islamic Jihad had been providing the rocket fire (and taking the casualties). Now the rate of fire is increasing, and Hamas is clearly involved. Why? I suspect that they are trying to force Israel to either take the cease fire, or attack Gaza in substantial force and to mount a permanent presence on the Gaza side of the border in rocket range of Sderot. After incursions earlier this year IDF soldiers reported Hamas was mounting far more competent resistance than in the past. So what happens when sooner or later what is known as the "Golden BB" happens? What happens when some civilians are killed (as they have been in the past) in Sderot? Will the Fool running Israel be able to resist the pressure to do something?

Isn''t a truce a time out during war? (Sorry, in this context, we now have "special situation."} HAARETZ -- will you please acknowledge Israel is AT WAR as she has been since 1948???

Mea culpa, mea culpa. I have been grievously wrong to have argued that Israel is at war and has been since May 15, 1948. It is NOT war; Israel has been in a "special situation" all this time. (And now I undertstand the fedayeen incursions from Gaza in the '50's were..."specialsituations.") I note with interest the reaction of the new UN Mideast envoy to the Mideast (whatever thast means) denouncing the latest Qassam attack. I wait for his call on Israel to exercise restraint.

"I myself, loathe England, I also loathe Saudi Arabia, Iran, Syria. I wrote a letter to each of those countries` main Newspapers, and said so. and not one of them printed my letter" No, you didn't, Chasaboy.

And finally Clickfool (#32) admits as much. He just wants Israel to lose. Chasaboy (#160) thanks for tellling talkbackers, here, of Clickfool's diatribe the other day --when he also said he detests the Israeli people (for fighting back actually, in this 60 years' war. Previously, wars ended with one side winning and the other losing. With the surrender concept (as to Israel's foes) now in disfavor, we are struggling to find another solution. Don't be surprised if, come December 15, 2008, the struggle continues, with, Lakshmi saying 181, and Clickfool still loathing Israel.

psyhcotics,but let me try! israel has no option left except to negotiate! There's this guy who calls himself 'voice of reason'advocating an attack on Gaza.Not happening,although the Crime Syndicate would like to,because the Arab rulers feel the heat in their backs from their populations.Taking Iran off the table is not the turning point because they would like to see Iran's power curtailed.But a blood bath in Gaza is something they won't tolerate.In any case,there will be casualties on the israeli side,quite a few! After Lebanon last year,no go with firepower either,since the international community will then move to even expel israel from the UN.The American public is not going to back their leaders any longer.And once Gaza is attacked israel can kiss goodbye to its own existence.Try and get that into your heads,I know it's strong medicine,but you have no choice!

Blow up a western Negev factory and blame the neighbour country.

Iakshmi and alike are repeating a destorted history in ME. If you will continue to educate your peop;e like you are stating , you never get a peace. Israel accepted UN res in 1947 for partition, but you, Arab Leaders, initiated a war against Israel. Result is well known, and in 1967 you, Arab Leasers, again initiated a war against Israel- result is known. Stop thinking to eliminate Israel, accept reality and build your life on totally peacful principals.

The other day, Clickfool said , and I quote " I LOATHE ISRAEL". I myself, loathe England, I also loathe Saudi Arabia, Iran, Syria. I wrote a letter to each of those countries' main Newspapers, and said so. and not one of them printed my letter. But CLICKFOOL who loathes Israel writes to an ISRAELI newspaper, and it's the only newspaper in the world that will print his letter. Is'nt it amazing?!! Is'nt Israel a wonderful democratic, fair country?

Aren't we a little puffed up to tell others to do some reading. I have read left, right, and center of this topic. I suggest YOU do some reading outside the far right. Since I am learned, not only in the History of the Conflict, but of the region, I make that statement. The history of that part of the world started before the Zionists arrived in the 1800s. In fact, I significantly remember the Arab world that was under Ottoman rule, significantly taking in Jews that became the Sephardim, after European persecution. Seems like a cycle people did not learn from. If there were intrinsic hate because they were "Jews" as you so callously put it, they would have slaughtered them before they got off the boats then. Major violence in this conflict, according to Tessler, starts after the 1917 Balfour Declaration, in which 13% of the pop got the right to a nation. If you read outside the right, you would know there was and is a discussion about the use of violence.

I am tired of Lakshmi banging on about resolution 181, There is as much chance of Israel returning to these borders as the USA returning Mexico, or Indonesia returning Aceh or any other of the many territories that were conquered in the past 100 years. So stop your whining, I'm sick of it

the solution has always been simple spyguy!! transfer all arabs to arab palestine ie jordan ! the alternative is to yuse the russian usa techniques and flatten gaza !

Maybe I misunderstand, but when he says ... "the only way to have peace is to totally annihilate your enemy." I have to assume he is perfectly comfortable with killing millions of people. Because there are only TWO ways to stop the Qassams: (1) Kill every possible "freedom fighter" in Gaza, because if even one is left, the Qassams will come again. Of course this only involves killing millions of people. The people in Gaza "know" that Israel will kill them sooner or later so they may as well kill as many Israelis as they can before they die. (2) negotiate a fair peace. All that this will involve is Israel giving up lots of land, water and cash (oh and having a little civil war to destroy the settler movement). The bottom line is Issrael has no comfortable option, so it has to just let the Qassams keep flying because a real solution requires impossible choices.

pk valentine you say you're sincere but you don't respond to the alternatives. you repeat that it isn't '67 but you don't respond to the alternatives. You say violence won't prove effective forever yet you make statements that ara violence Will "prove effective" ahhh I see, arab violence is okay and it's effective, jewish response isn't okay and isn't effective. You see valentine...you need to think a little more, establish that false foundation a bit better before trying to sell it. I don't envy you, trying to sell damaged goods to people who know better. The choice is yours, continue attacking and have hell unleashed on you or prepare to compromise.

I t is about time to GIVE PEACE A CHANCE Instead to fight who has the reason or who is stronger.Are you not tired of the lost of lifes???

We should begin sending huge numbers of missiles into Gaza with the same sort of effect as the qassams...Wherever they land and whoever and whatever they hit or maim, BAD LUCK!

then you will see some IDF action, no more electricity, etc., etc.

"considering his claim to fame is being in teh British Navy during that bit of imperialism, I would doubt he has any credebility" I've never served in the British Navy, and I was in Britain throughout the Falklands War. I must have missed the post from Fake Clickfool in which this claim was made. But I'm glad you enjoyed it, Musante. That's the purpose of Fake Clickfool - he tosses mad bones to Zionists like you to fall upon and slaver over.

with the new government under Labor. Australian troops killed 3 children last week Maureen Anne. For you it is ok for Aussies to kill but your moral relativism does not allow IDF to protect thier own citizins from TERRORUSTS targeting exclusivly innocent citizens. Give these terrorists the thumbs up Maureen Anne, after all they are anti-semites as yourself.

The man who defines himself as the leader of the "peace camp" has proven that he can't function as defense minister in time of war. The so-called "special situation" is merely a means to create dictatorial control over Jewish citizens without doing anything to end the missile attacks. Barak has huge gall to lecture others on what their responsibilities are when he himself refuses to fulfill his own responsibilities. The people of Israel don't want the defense establishment to "make an effort" to solve the problem. They want them to SOLVE it, by taking whatever measures are necessary, with no sympathy or pity for the Arabs. Any government minister that's not up to the task should display some honor and resign.

There will never be a better time for IDF to make the necessary move to eliminate (or at least minimize) the terrorist infrastructure that Hamas and its allies (Islamic Jihad, PRC, etc) have built up in Gaza. Now that the NIE report has taken the US attack on Iran temporarily off the table, Bush admin has no need to suck up to Saudis and emirates, so Israel has a window of opportunity to wipe out Hamas, before it needs to turn its attention to the iranian nuke weapon issue. If the IDF misses this opportunity, only the forces of islamic terrorism will benefit.

The Govt declares Sderot "Special situation" The Cabinet Secretary carried out Sderot "Special situation" The Defence Minister approves Sderot "Special situation The Foreign Affair dept.must approve as well Sderot's "Special situation" The Defense Committee (cela va sans dire), must approve also Sderot "Special situation" And, the army gets all the above regarding Sderot's "Special situation" And the show goes on. I remember as a kid enjoying the hilarious "Keystone Cops". Saddly, THEY, the ABOVE, are not funny; pathetic would be more appropriate for the display of sheer stupidity. If,God forbid,a Kassam should hit a class in session,I would have to assume that the clowns who run OUR country will declare a "SUPER-special situation",while our foes celebrate "Victory Day" over the Jews. Throughout history, Jews have shown a "penchant" for self-destruction. I suspect that Olmert & Co.are in tune with tradition.

any solution must take into account the immediate history: israels border: peace with egypt and jordan, both guard their borders, syria to. Lebanon and the PA dont, refuse to, hence the attacks. it should be pretty clear that any withdrawl from the westbank wont be good enough for some of he jihadnists, who will then continue to attack, but with better/closer positions. and your response would be?......let me guess.....israel should do nothing but let it citizens be terrorized and killed as in sederot and the north (pre lebanon II)...

Israel Your Government and leadership has become a fully paid up branch of the United Nations. All talk with nothing to back it up. The last Israeli left, Turn out the lights.

Asimov was no Jew and Lakshmi's theories are just that, straining towards the solution she desires, distorting some facts and ignoring others.

The Jews will prevail..we are strong... Get it? GOOD :)

To draw the conclusion that Hamas has a coherent policy , did not require all these so called "facts and inferences". I take it for granted that Hamas will fight to the last Pali to further its hate of Jews ; and will accept Israeli surrender to kill every Jew after the armstice is signed.

Absolutly not. And furthermore your opinion on the matter is irrelevant.

ASYLUM PATIENTS WITHOUT RESTRAINTS R A DANGER TO OTHER PATIENTS.

Problem appears to be that there is no reason for the Palestinians to stop the attacks. so.......... no warnings, no worries select the closest town to Sderot over the line and level it. If that doesn't stop the rockets pick the next town and do the same thing and so on

She would know what to do!

Peter, Yes, I meant every word of what I wrote you. Whatever you think of my opinions, you may always be assured of their sincerity. Although I can't say I agree with Lakshmi on all the points she's addressed today, I will say she knows her history, and more importantly, has a feel for the tides of it; and I fear she is very right about one thing particularly: your foes, their weapons, and the battlefields upon which you seem so intent meeting them, will not be the same as in 1967. Neither will be the results. Violence, my friend, won't prove effective forever. As Isaac Asimov (no doubt both a co-religionist of yours, and a very wise one) once said: "violence is the last refuge of the incompetent". Kind regards.

Lakshmi, I must carefully review the bulk of what you kindly sent me in these two posts; but one item I must politely object to - please do not refer to the Chair of the US Joint Chiefs of Staff as being "mine". Doing so suggests (to me, at least) that I somehow support the Bush Administration, a most heart-breaking suggestion. Do you not wish to be kind to an old man, Padmasundari? :-) MV

Hamas is asking for a cease fire in Gaza. Israel is not interested, so Sderot is paying the price for this idiocy. Hamas is nowadays in a position to impose the cease fire on the smaller terror groups in Gaza, and Hamas` word is typically good. So why not have a cease fire, initially for a year until the peace process comes to its supposed end? If Israel is worried about a massive smuggling flow from Egypt, let it come to some deal with Egypt where an additional force (perhaps US or UN) will be guarding the Egyptian side. In the past, Hamas wanted a cease fire in both Gaza and West Bank. I believe this is more stable than a cease fire with Gaza only and will last longer. Due to Hamas` present reduced circumstances they will take a more limited cease fire. This should be pursued. The attitude we see by the Olmert government is not different from what was seen during the Lebanon war. The North population was simply expected to remain undefended and suffering while "grander plan" was being pursued. It seems not to occur to the incompetents in Jerusalem that defending the citizens on a daily basis is part of their job too.

"The only way Qassams can be stopped is to charge the price Hamas cannot afford to pay." - Darth Ding-Dong You suggest what? $10.95 a round? "They must know and be able to calculate this price in advance. Since they are fanatical but not stupid Hamas will make a rational decision to abstain when they finally reach their limit. " - Darth Dumb Dork What if their goal is to lure the IDF into a costly and inconclusive campaign in Gaza? "The retaliation must include finite no traffic zones, i.e. 5, 10 km deep or more . . ." - Darth, dumber than a box of rocks You really are an idiot arn't you? There is no sane reason go go deeper into Gaza than to push the qassams out of range except if you wish to incur needless Israeli casualties. "If the pain threshold is not reached the measure has to be increased . . " Darth Vermin, Saddist Extraordinare Until your personal level of sadistic vengeance has been achieved? And tell me, can your personal level of sadism EVER be achieved?

"Maureen Ann-#85-Terrorists are civilians" - Daniel Leopold The lunacy of Daniel Leopold and many on the psycho right is that they consider ALL Arabs/Muslims terrorist. This is simply not true. If it was, then the plight of America and Israel would be far more, perhaps a thousand, probably a million times more dire. IF ALL - as Daniel Leopold suggests - All Palestinians were terrorists, there would be perhaps a million dead Israelis tomorrow and hundreds of thousands before the last of the suicidal horde was exterminated. This is simply not a rational argument born out by the subsequent facts. Daniel, and those whom agree with him, are paranoid fanatics. Got it?

The only way Qassams can be stopped is to charge the price Hamas cannot afford to pay. They must know and be able to calculate this price in advance. Since they are fanatical but not stupid Hamas will make a rational decision to abstain when they finally reach their limit. The retaliation must include finite no traffic zones, i.e. 5, 10 km deep or more and Hamas leadership. If the pain threshold is not reached the measure has to be increased a notch until it is reached and understood by the opposition. Otherwise, Israel is falling into a trap laid out for them by Hamas. Hamas wants to replicate events in Lebanon last year, as it is deemed a victory of sorts by Anti-Israeli side. Israel, not being touch enough now, is edging into a major ground offensive in Gaza when a barrage of Qassams finally kills a couple of dozen kids. It is just a matter of time.

I suppose you are aware that your chair of joint chief of staffs is already in israel conferring with the cabal about the invasion of Gaza.and the criminal from the white house will be joining them in January.For once I agree with Ayman al zwari who is reported to have called on egyptians to overthrow that corrupt guy who is also trying to get his son to be his successor.

PLO Declaration of Independence,1988:the Partition Line,Jerusalem as capital,ROR.Oslo 1993:arafat agrees to 22% land.1999 onwards he returns to the PLO Declaration.Immaterial what israel will negotiate;its seeming superiority in the negotiation process is illusory.Time is on Hamas side.I happen to think that they are a genuine Resistance Movement.Difference from others in that they are focused on Palestine(nationalists).Also follow Basic Palestine Law.Khalid Mishal just said that they are prepared for a third intifada and a fourth and. . Hamas leaders talk about 1948 lands,by which they mean precisely the land given to them by the UN and from which they were driven.I do not hold the charitable view of abbas that you do.Re:Hamas revising their Charter,they seemed to be doing so during the short lived Unity Govt.Right now they are concerned with the vile siege of Gaza and all the guys sniffing around,the Japanese,blair,and everybody else who thinks they are going to make a fast buck out

"Mark Lincoln. And when your country...gives cause to the "terrorists"/reactionaries." - Maureen Ann Hell, "My Country", the United States of America CREATED AL QUAEDA. Our President Ronald Reagan, his CIA Director William Casey and the House of Saud CREATED Al Quaeda. It did not exist before they collectively decided to create a Wahabbist fanatic organization which would launch terrorist attacks and foment insurrection in the Islamic Republics of the Soviet Union. This was in keeping with their fanatical anti-communism which could never simply allow the Soviets to fail from their own incompetence (which is what eventually happened). And exactly why has a formerly decent nation like Australia sucked Bush Dick the last 7 years?

" They are well-funded, well-trained, well-armed and, crucially, willing to face the risk of annihilation by Israel for the opportunity of annihilating Israel in turn." valentine the question is do you truly believe that or are you just doing the nonsensical ulullating thang. See if you DO believe it then there is no diplomatic solution and we may as well unleash hell now and establish deterrence. very effective. If you don't truly believe it then a steady escalation to reach the point at which they turn away from the culure of suicide. Either way you hold the key to ur own future.

Ma'an reports that an Israeli retaliated by sending a drone to kill the suspected terrorist Sami Tafish, and killed two innocent bystanders in the process. TYPICAL.

Lakshmi, Thank you for these posts. I confess, although you make some valid points, I do not think a return to the 1947 boundaries would be negociable by Israel in any peace talks. It would be quite interesting, however, to discover if Hamas is genuinely willing to change its charter, and accept Israel as a Jewish state under such terms. Such would reveal a great deal about Hamas' true goals. There can be little doubt the PA suffers from corruption; Hamas' rise might not have been so rapid otherwise. Regardless, Abu Mazen is in a tight spot, hemmed in by the Israelis on one side, and Hamas on the other - not so much a Quisling as a mirror-image of Olmert. Neither man is in a position to make either peace or war. What, or who, will break this anxious equilibrium, I do not know, but I fear much more bloodshed on both sides. MV

Well, what a bunch of phonies the Israeli leadership is. The Israel 'government'? Excuse me but before talking about this group of traders, I think you need to realize the following about these really devious people. The Israeli GOvernment is: 1) Totally Sabbatean 2) Bought off by the Bilderbergers/CFR 3) Selling all Jews/Israelis up river 4) Escape Ready to houses out of Israel 5) Stealing from Holocaust victims And the good news is other than that they are just crummy revolting people

gives cause to the "terrorists"/reactionaries.

Israel has already recognized Hamas for the killers they are--That last truce that Hamas managed to sucker Israel into, only resulted in Kassam attacks, under the guise it was being done by factions which Hamas and Fatah claimed were not under their control--All that you have to do is read both charters of Hamas & Fatah, they clearly state they will never recognize Israel and their intent is to drive out or use any means to get them out--

the colonialists? And the American imperialists?

Check my post 105.

more refugees,bombs dropped on fleeing civilians on bridges,women and children on dirt roads! All this from the sky,when it came to a ground encounter the idf turned and ran! We all know about their heroism!But your point about restraint and minimums.Your maximum you've already outlined.What if some big guy comes along and whacks you for a change! Think on it.

Israel 1 : Pals 3 selfgoals not bad for a days work, even if you claim what even the Pals do not, you know, Mosad did it, etc. Shabat Shalom

Natallie, it sure sounds like you think the rockets are harmless. If that's the case, then perhaps you'd like to join (the fake) Peter from Australia on a visit to Sderot. You'd get to see the fireworks for yourself. They might be a little more intense than what you see on July 4th.

Losers and dead-beats.

Peter, You've mistaken me for someone who is fundamentally anti-Israel; a look at my posts on the Iranian nuclear programme might correct that misapprehension. However, I'm also living in 2007; but you, Peter, seem a little behind the times. Please consider how the character of Israel's enemies has changed since 1967. Deterrence works only if you can reasonably assume your enemy will be deterred through fear of the retribution of your arms and thus of possible annihilation. This infers your enemy is "sane": the nation-states led by Nasser, Sadat, Hafez Assad and King Hussein all to varying degrees fit this description. Hamas, Hizbullah, and the Iran of Ahmadinejad and Khamenei most assuredly do not. They are well-funded, well-trained, well-armed and, crucially, willing to face the risk of annihilation by Israel for the opportunity of annihilating Israel in turn. "An afternoon of F-16 missions"? How quaint. And ineffective. Try the peace-table first. MV

"So just how dangerous are these rockets?" Well, mate, there's only one way to find out. Get yourself a ticket to Israel, make your way to Sderot, and live there for a week or two. I'm sure someone will put you up.

Israel truly appreciates the this Hamas offer, knowing full well it will be a repeat of last time--The rockets kept on coming, Hamas & Fatah blamed on groups over which they had no control--Fool me once, shame on you, If I fall for it again, shame on me--

It is people such as yourself who fuel this unending conflict from wherever you are.Most probably thousands of miles away from it

People covering their faces with black hoods ,shooting qassams and mortars randomly targetting civilians in Israel then blending in their own civilian population are terrorists Maureen Ann and Israel has every right to respond to these attacks. If primitive Islamist bullies have decided to expose and sacrifice their own families and friends by taking cover among them that's not Israel's fault.

every 10 operational Qassams delivered intact at the border where fuel is brought in.

defenceless. Your "they did what they thought best " is of no use in any situation,especially now when the ghosts of the failed past have creeped from the shadows and are the helm again,steeing the ship down an abyss.

allocated to the Palestinians in 1947,by the UN.Partition Resolution(181)?Simpler,than your final solution? Also,don't be sure you can whack them & get away with it.These are not the good old days!

And Israeli Left has been acting in a criminally irresponsible way for the last 13 years, which is far too long. It is high time to demand some accountability of the Israeli arrogant ruling class and their media enablers. And it is also about time those thousands who tend to gather in the Rabin square finally face the reality.

Few nations have been more adroit at targeting civilians than the US and England. The technology of strategic bombardment during WW II was such that the only way to make a major contribution to destroying the ability of opposing nations to produce weapons was to 'unhouse" the workers. Both Palestinian terrorists and Israel regularly kill civilians and excuse that as 'collateral damage." So does the US today in Iraq and Afghanistan. So what is your point Maureen Ann? That Australian troops in Afghanistan NEVER kill civilians?

This is a place that have no value for the economy of the state , prodices no Hight-Tech , and some very low-tech .... so , there is no need to protect his citizens with proper protection. If a Kassam falls in Kfar-Sava or Raanana , tkings will be much different ... and this is going to happen.

"Convince the people shooting them to stop, or force them out of range" - Mark Lincoln "How do you propose to do that? Beg them to stop?" - Daniel Leopold The two options available are accept the Hamas cease fire proposal or send the IDF in to push Palestinians far enough away from Sderot to prevent the launching of qassams. "he only efficient weapon against terrorism is terrorism." - Daniel Leopold You certainly learned nothing from the history of Israel. That was the policy of the British and it backfired. The BEST policy towards terrorism is a long-term strategy; and which has been eschewed by Israel for so long as to be virtually impossible to implement. Thus Israel is stuck with the options left by it's policy decisions over the last 40 years. "You terrorize my population I terrorize yours... . " - Daniel Leopold And the cycle goes on with the guys who have less to lose wining. That might be satisfying in a sadistic way Daniel, but it never works unless you kill them all

The IDF is made up of Left and Right, religious and secular, city and kibbutz. There is no ONE way and there is no excuse to dump on Rabin who certainly knew more and did more than all of us combined here at talkback. Whether successful or not, each and every leader has done what they thought was right in trying to arrive at a way to live with our neighbours. I disagreed with Rabin and Barak but would never call into question their desire and attempts to ensure a better future for Israel. We need to establish deterrence not offer "better targets".

Your hatefilled posts are irrevelant. It does not matter what Israel does, you will not be satisfied. It is obvious from your posts that you advocate the total demise of Israel and the Jewish People. Why beat around the bush. Be honest and post your true desires. But I have news for you. Your hopes and dreams about Israel and the Jewish People will not come true. WE ARE HERE AND WILL BE HERE LONG AFTER YOU ARE GONE. We will do anything necessary to insure the well being of Israel ane the Jewish People. The operative word here is anything. So rant on. Sticks and Stones.

Security for Israel is measured the same way as for other countries, not by depth but by deterrence. The only reason that rockets continue to fly is that the Israeli gov't feels that there is a possibility for a diplomatic solution and has concentrated on that and not deterrence. Israel has spoiled you with her responses, trying to cause as little damage as possible to keep doors open. If the Arabs choose to take advantage of the ever-lengthening ranges, larger payloads and deadlier accuracy in their rockets, Israel will be forced to establish deterrence the old-fashioned way. An afternoon of F-16 missions...and not like in Lebanon where they were sent to cause as little civilian damage as possible. Common sense dictates that the Arabs do not push things to that point but it appears that there is no common sense or grasp of reality. Compromise and accept 97% or keep attacking till hell is unleashed on you.

I think if Israel were to approach Hamas with a truce offer and open the Gaza/Egyptian border, a resolution of the quassam problem will come forward. America is now negotiating with Iran and working with Sunni Muslims in Iraq to stop the terror of roadside bombs. It works. A little unorthodox to talk with the ones who want to hurt you for not recognizing them. Right.

"..almost two years since the Qassams actually killed a person. During that same time, the IDF has killed over a hundred Palestinians, many of them civilians, in retaliation for the Qassams. If someone was lobbing hand grenades at your house and they were a bad aim, would you try to get them to stop or would you blithely say - "Oh well, they haven't hit yet, nothing to concern myself with"

if you can...if 100Palistinians are killed in retaliation...well any sane thinking Palistinian would think...we have not killed even one Jew with the kassam...but we have caused 100 palistinians to die... Get it Natalie? DUH !!!! GOOD :)

Let's see if the Lefties are going to flock to his Sderot's "Rabin Sq" ducking the Qassams.

You seem to have two names now. I suggest you write this posting to Gaza news. The information is more valuable to the terrorists there, than to us in Israel

"special situation".."hostile entity" Meaningless words. They should have been applied after the first qassam landed,after the first suicide bombing. Can we get any action here,please,other than blowing up empty fields and buildings,with only a few terrorists killed. It's past time for this large incursion Olmert is continually about. I bet Amir Peretz is long gone from Sderot as well.

""Convince the people shooting them to stop, or force them out of range"" How do you propose to do that? Beg them to stop? How do you get terrorists blending in the civilian population out of range? The only efficient weapon against terrorism is terrorism.You terrorize my population I terrorize yours...Even a kid will tell you that Mark.Especially a kid who has to endure the never ending barage of qassams every day of his young life

olmert, the braggert said he was going to stop quasem fire from gaza. The IDF cannot stop all of the missiles even if they invade Gaza.However, they can hurt the gazans which will reduce missile fire. Olmert has limited the IDF response. Because of the lebanon war, he is afraid that the IDF would lose again as gaza has adopted Hezboolah tactics. The main obstacle to IDf rehabilitation is Olmert. He just has to be removed as he will not go on his own even with a final damning winograd report.

and the police to strike etc.)the man is shameless,remains to be seen how much of the 5.6 billion he is asking at the donors conference in paris,will go into his pockets and his cronies! to repeat:the focus is no longer on the 'difficulty' that israel is having,but rather the forward movement of the Liberation struggle.And I predict:They will win,not some day,but soon! Pray that that happens rather than the other scenario of the big guy coming along and whacking israel.As some poster on this very site said:most people will look the other way if that happens.

emergence of a dedicated Resistance Movement,Hamas(which is not about to go away).The corrupt Arab leaders terrified of their own populations rising up as indeed they should ! All in all,israel is no longer in charge.The UN GA is getting smarter,bypassin the SC where Uncle Sam still has the veto.The BDS(Boycott,Divestment,Sanctions)movement,the general awareness of the international community about the goings on in Palestine.Now is exactly the right time to pressure israel into going back to the Partition Line.The refugees will then return to precisely the 1948 lands from which they had been driven during the nakba.Enough of molly coddling of the enfant terrible of the ME.And Al Quds is not something Hamas will ever give up.They might settle for East J.but not,ever,the Green Line.abbas is a quisling,his days are numbered,he has actively collaborated in the vile siege of Gaza,has done everything possible(including withholding salaries of civil servants,against civil service law). .

block.It's gone on too long!If you go to the site Dan Gillerman's speech at the UN,Nov.29,2007,there is a little video which has footage showing jews jubilant over the 1947 Resolution! israel declared independence,a year AFTER.And a year later(1949)UN Resolution 273 admitted israel to membership in the UN.Only after it accepted 181(which it was happy to!)and 194(ROR).Check the relevant documents.israeli rep.abban eban gave that reassurance and only then did the august assembly vote in favour.israel needs a reminder or two.ofcourse,its conduct since 1948 was possible only with the collusion of the U.S.this is an open secret.The SC resolutions are there.By that same token the american public is weary of this junior partner in crime.And the sun is setting on pax americana.Politics may be the art of the possible but Palestine is the last of the Liberation movements.History is moving ineluctably towards the Good.Unless israel is secretly in love with a suicidal death wish,the geopolitics of

Israel does it all the time, so it must be O.K. Isn't that right Tess?

You are both for ones right. Within a few days will will blow the shit out of the terrorists in Gaza, and yes Clicky, we will pay the price. The Pals will run to the UN and like haunted chickens scream "massacre". We will say, this is a gift back from the citizens of Sderot, for the over 2000 Qassams and mortars we received among our civilians in 2007. In the meantime, prepare your crying postings...

If Mr Moyal asked his government to stop punishing 1.5 million gazan residents then perhaps the rocket attacks on 22,000 people in Sderot will stop. And no, Israel must stop the collective punishment first because if Hama's are first to stop the rockets, Israel will happily keep depriving gaza of everything human's need to live properly. People in Sderot are vctims of their own pathetic government, who seems happy to let sderot and other townships receive punishment for its brutal treatment of those in gaza, which the international community say is wrong.

If you got shot, but not killed, in Los Angeles in a drive-by, I bet you wouldn't complain if the cops kill the shooters. Even though they're civilians - or children. You're nothing more than a troll, and I will not address you again.

Let's get Aboo Ben Mazen off his duff and get his unemployed masses into a Kassem Hunters Brigade out there OR NO PAL STATE TALKS! C'mon Isreal, don't take these acts of terrorism and acts of WAR sitting down with your eyes closed... make the enemy wipe themselves! z

considering his claim to fame is being in teh British Navy during that bit of imperialism, I would doubt he has any credebility

"Sderot is the jewel in Israels crown of "Israel as victim" - Natalie Dusson Another Californicator. Natalie in LaLa Land, the life and death issue is whether the script writers will have their union broken. In Sderot it is the very real possibility of having a rocket come through your roof and kill you. I realize that in the capital of the land of make believe, reality is disparaged. Once you are dead there is no script writer who can resurrect you with one of Hollywoods Miracles. I have no sympathy for those on either side who perform atrocities Natalie, and I have no sympathy for those who can't see both sides. Israel has a great deal of firepower Natalie, and I suspect that the goal of Hamas and Islamic Jihad is to draw Israel into close contact where that firepower is harder to employ. I also see where Israel - having ruled out any cease fire - is being forced into a situation where it will have to occupy parts of Gaza. Your quite wrong about this matter.

"Good attempt to blame Israel for the cassams fired by the palestians, . . . " - dan Have you been an idiot all your life? I did not make any 'attempt" to blame Israel for the qassams. Some Palestinians make them and some launch them. No Israelis involved.

"The relentless campaign against these ineffectual glorified fireworks continues daily." - chet The rate of fire is rising Chet. What is being done now to stop the qassams is not effective enough. The campaign to starve and torment Gaza is probably counter productive in that the rate of fire is higher now than when Olmert set out to starve Gaza into submission. I agree that the MILITARY effectiveness of the qassam is nil. The mortars are much more significant. What you fail to consider are two factors. Every now and then a qassam kills someone, usually a civilian. The qassam has become a potent propaganda and psychological weapon. The Palestinians can make them, and Israel is not capable of stopping them without pushing deep into Gaza. The mind set of Israelis since the Six Day War has been arrogance to the point of hubris. This makes the fact that they cannot stop the qassam a deep psychological problem. Israel cannot do nothing for ever.

Dear fellow Jews of Israel, what on earth are you paying the salaries of your government? To make profound and weighty pronouncements like this one? After two years of rocket attacks, they now officially recognized the situation in Sderot as special. Another year or two, and they might pass a resolution that the sun is sometimes hot... Well,la de dah! It's about time you fired the sons of bitches who have allowed that to happen in the first place.

Lakshmi, Politics is sometimes called "the art of the possible". Given that Israel is having difficulty returning even to the 1949 "Green Line", I'm not at all certain how Israel possibly would be convinced to accept the 1947 partition boundaries as part of a final peace settlement. Please enlighten me? A possible answer is that the Green Line may be "good enough" - as the PA has indicated a conditional willingness, in past negociations, to accept it as an international boundary. The condition, of course, is acceptance of the Palestinian "right of return", or at least a commitment to working out some way of compensating Palestinians made stateless by the conflict of 1947-48. Whilst Israel will not, I think, admit all these Palestinians and their more numerous descendants, a modest repatriation, combined with generous compensation, may carry the day for peace. Your thoughts? Kind regards.

The time has come for individual Israelis to take matters in their own hands. It is obvious that the govt is letting the Israeli people dawn. We need organizations like the Irgun to fight the terrorists. I amd terribly disapointed in the Israelis for allowing this situation to remain.

In fact,why is israel Illegally Present in any land that was not allocated to them by the Partition Resolution of 1947(Res.181)?israel gladly accepted that Partition.If you go to the site which says Dan Gillerman's Speech at the UN,Nov.29,2007(the 60th anniversary of Res.181)there is also a little video showing the jubilation by the jews when it was announced that 181 had passed.Since then israel became greedy and kept land which it conquered.International Law&the Geneva Convention forbid the keeping of territory taken in war(offensive or defensive).Not relevant either that the Arabs rejected 181 in 1947.181 was the continuation of the UN's responsibilities when it inherited the League of Nations'committments.The Mandate is a Trust &by Trust Law,both beneficiaries must benefit before the Trust is extinguished.Hence the Partition Line is the only legally authorised border between israel &Palestine.israel has no business being anywhere else!

Your blind hate for everything Jewish and Israeli is no longer subject of intellectual debate at this point. We must defend ourselves no matter what people (people?) like you have to say. You are not the one who decides what our lives are worth. South Lebanon and Gaza, two very bad examples of what Israel tolerates after she evacuates a territory conquered in a defensive war. The wrong people draw wrong conclusions about us.

IT SEEMS STRANGE THAT ISRAEL WITH ALL ITS TECHNOLOGY CANNOT DEVELOP A SYSTEM TO COMBAT THE ENTRY OF THE KASSAMS INTO SDEROT

Suggest all meetings with Rice be held in Sderot.

#1 was me, indeed. Come on faker, get up to speed. Post something original with flash and dash to dazzle the customers.

Sderot plays an important role in Israels global strategy. The PR is enough to make you forget that it has been almost two years since the Qassams actually killed a person. During that same time, the IDF has killed over a hundred Palestinians, many of them civilians, in retaliation for the Qassams. The Qassams are more important to Israel than they are to Hamas

All that is required NOW is "Committed Leadership and the Political Will". Cause folks, time is now of the essence.The clouds of war are approaching faster than we can see. No more posturing, its time to get off the pot Mr. Hermit et Cie. Barak, hit the lights.!

The prognosis is: Sderot has been converted to military rule, Sderot is a "de facto military compound". The civilian populations rights, rules etc. are now a military affair.? OK,..so are the terrorists now going to send their next barrage to say,..Ashkelon.? Then what.?

Why IDF can't annex Southern and Northern parts of Gaza? It is time completely provide security to Negev- a dream of Ben Gurion.

Barak declares "Special situation" at Sderot, after a suffering of 7 years and 6000 Qassams. Does anyone know what a "Special situation" is? In CIA parlance the sentence "Sir,we have a special situation here" means "May Day... May Day" . In Barak`s parlance it means : My heart is with you, dear Sderot residents. Bravo Barak, bravo.

allocated by the Partition Resolution.Hence the famous(infamous)armistice line or Green Line,which was a temporary agreement anyway,not a final one.israel must withdraw from ALL land that has not been allocated to it.The Partition Line,is the only legally authorised border between israel &Palestine.That israel is fighting this tooth and tail and that posters here jump up and down when Res.181 is mentioned(and that includes not just Howdy Jeff Northridge, to whom johnboy &myself have tried explaining why Res.181 is still in the books!)is revealing.But I agree with you:not the quassams hunt,but genuine negotiations.Not the crafty geneva accord nor the infamous Oslo,but israel's withdrawal from ALL land not allocated to them by the UN.Once israel becomes a law abiding nation then we're talking.Until then,I'm afraid,it is the sword & believe me one of these days,that big guy will come along and will solve the problem for the world community!It's gone on too long,60 years!

that is willing to defend its citizens even if they happen to live near Palestinians.

israel is hesitating to invade.Barak is described in Palestinian circles as a certified child killer.During the second intifada he was directly responsible for the killing of hundreds of civilians,quite a few children.Last time round when he stood for elections he reminded the israeli public of his gristly exploits in Beirut.The israeli public obliged by electing him!Morris Valentine,when in September a young unarmed boy was crushed to death by an American supplied bulldozer,young israelis rejoiced and said:Let's teach them a lesson!I commend you for your sentiment:turn swords into ploughshares!That will happen only when a debased and demoralised israeli public pressure their leaders.And when israel respects the rule of Law.Since it jubilantly accepted the Partition Resolution of 1947(Res.181)it has flouted every UN resolution,aided&abetted in its criminality by the U.S. of A.After the genocidal ethnic cleansing of Palestinians in 1948,it used the excuse of war to grab another 22%..

Read that Hamas will harm Gilad bla. Bla.bla, bla. I recalled one Bosnian mother which told to her small girl if she once again tells some bad word mama will cut her tongue. Words told at social service here in EU. Whole system moved to protect a child. Mother told me:? Do you, really, think I could do that?? I am sure Gilad is fine but Hamas feel bad about him and your actions. Can you stop attack and send somebody to talk about exchange? When Muslims are silente than it is trouble ahead.

I get your message now, Tova. Sadly, I agree with every word.

Only if you promise to say the same when it will be about your Rehovot. If you were joking, so am I :-)

"So a direct hit on a house in Sderot only caused light injuries? So just how dangerous are these rockets"? You are indeed a genius! Imagine a direct hit on a house when nobody is at home. You can prove then that the Qassams are not dangerous at all. You wrote this alone or somebody helped you?

Let's just end the misery of the Good People of Sderot and relocate them to a safer place. It's obvious this government has no intention of helping them out. It's obvious the courts place a higher value on Palestinian life than on Israeli life. It's obvious that the IDF can't make the case for protecting its own citizens. We can use the emptied-out space to create a "buffer zone" in Israel against the Qassams. These people have suffered long enough. Not a good proposal? Then, DO SOMETHING ALREADY!

. . . that the only way to have peace is to totally anhililate your enemy? The US Civil War, World War One, World War Two. . . was that one by negotiation or by fighting! Look at Operation Dessert Storm, the enemy was not anhililated, there is still trouble in Iraq The US negotiated an "end" to the Vietnam War, what happened there? Yet Germany and the US South today are peacefull! Hashem gave us back Jerusalem and The Temple in 1967 but we would rather negotiate and risk the lives of the people of Sedrot than accept the gift we were given!

Sorry, I don't post here often enough to recognize a fake.

Read some decent history books not the PLO press releases. The Jews had been victims of Arab violence before 1948, between 1948 and 1967 and after 1967. Every time the Jews show any weakness, the frequency of Arab terrorism against them increases.

and is a nobody

Now he suddenly discovered that Arab rockets are devastating Sderot? And what this pompous Defense Minister is actually going to do about it? Talk. Maybe kill 2 terrorists at the cost a million each? The Israeli government has proven itself to be corrupt and completely indifferent towards the suffering of ordinary Israelis. At it goes for the Israeli press, especially Haaretz, as well.

"The Crime Syndicate is preparing for an invasion of Gaza!" Israel, as in Southern Lebanon, will be shocked by the price it has to pay. Hamas has had a long time to prepare its defences and as we saw only the other day, their weaponry has improved. Of the 10 IDF tanks sent into Gaza, one was crippled by an anti-tank missile with its crew lucky to escape with their lives. If the IDF try to fight in the streets of Gaza City, they're in for a disagreeable surprise. Israel claims that it learns from wars. Its enemies learn faster.

Security for Israel once was measured by "depth": how many miles from the border the enemy's artillery might be pushed to keep it out of range. A wide enough territorial buffer, so went the thinking, would prevent shells from landing in Israeli back-gardens. It is clear this defensive notion, although apparently still favoured by Israel, is badly outdated and in need of replacement: It's not 1967 any longer! Rockets and missiles have replaced mortar fire and cannon shells. It's an era of Qassams, Scuds, Fajrs and Shahabs, and of ever-lengthening ranges, larger payloads, and deadlier accuracy. Scouring Gaza repeatedly in search of Qassams and their makers isn't going to solve this Israeli security nightmare. The real solution involves engaging the enemy at the peace table, with both sides summoning the will and courage to beat their swords into plowshares. Any other approach is truly lacking in depth. MV

Barak helps sderot !! Amazingly only after a good man donates 60 million to build safety rooms.Barak is again saying through the press with false advertising, attempting to buy votes for his corrupt government.The government will again do nothing.Damages will not be rectified.All talk and no action.Barak go home .You have done enough damage to Israel.

RE:you seem to be an intelligent person Mr. Lincoln. Don't bet on it. He is a bitter man that will spin anything to blame Israel or the Bush administration.

All that replied to # 10, probably don't know you. I immediatly smelled a rotten fish.

Couldn't agree more. It shows to well how the palestinians (at least their leaders) really want peace.

Well Moyal only lasted a short time before taking his position back. How can he serve his constituents? A large portion have fled already. There are daily rocket attacks. The ruling junta aids the enemy by supplying them with electricity and fuel. The only thing he can do for his people is to work to remove that junta and replace it with a government that will meet it's most basic obligation, civil defense.

Good attempt to blame Israel for the cassams fired by the palestians, but, no, no, no. These rokets are being fired by palestinians terrorists who do not care about civilian population in the israeli side, nor do they care about the well being of their own population. you seem to be an intelligent person Mr. Lincoln. Therefore, the conclusion is clear: you spend most of your time reading Haaretz, and posting "talkbacks" of an antisemitic nature

They are in danger of being rooted out.

and maim. Those are the figures those are the intentions

Barak told Moyal that his responsibility and commitment to the people of Sderot takes precedence over every other consideration, ... Barak is not committed at all to Sderot citizens, so far he did nothing to protect them even if he got his job a year ago. He also promised him that the defense establishment would make an effort to find a solution to the Qassam problem. ... There is no such thing a defense establishment. A true defense establishment is in charge of protecting citizens and would already have solved the Qassam problem which is seven years old. These losers must go.

Lets see, terrorists continue to fire rockets into Israel and the DM can only say its a special situation. Come on, either 's..t or get off the pot. By that I mean, either go into Gaza full force or shut up, evacuate Sderot and then you give the terrorists more hope. Get some ba..s!

Tell your friends no free kicks. If their brains were not soaked in Islamofascist Jihad they would realise.

Calls to transfer emergency authority from the state to the army Is a shout throughout the land of incriminating proof against lefties infamous scandal of lefties coercive pressures thru lefties manipulative policies of restraint in the face of arabs war crimes and mortal armed offensive , It reveals a flagrant , striking , blatant corrupted to the bones lefties indifference to the shouting of Israel citizens to address and correct the suffering of Israel Southern Residents and in particularil Sderot ones , Lefties rather make happy the murderous arab occupation and see the jews eating their hearts out , Lefties deserve no representation in parliament . Lefties must shoulder responsibility , quit and face trial over their national corruptions and crimes , The conclusion of the interim report of the expert authoritative scholars of Winograde Inquiry Commision is right on target ,

and the electricity keeps flowing to the terrorists israel looks so weak and insensitive to it's citizens

The relentless campaign against these ineffectual glorified fireworks continues daily. You all know the stats, so I won't repeat them.

Israel has been maneuvered into a position which has no good outcome. That it has been is a direct result of the inability of the current regime to be honest with Israelis, or the world. Last June Fatah - Abbas - shot craps that Israel would honor the word of Elliot Abrams who spoke for the Bush administration. Abbas was, of course, a fool to believe the word of men who had never honored their word. I have no evidence that Olmert ever gave his word as Abrams and Bush did, still, Olmert threw away the opportunity given by the civil war between Fatah and Hamas. Now Hamas is offering cease fire - no longer requesting it be extended to the West Bank, as the inability of Abbas to protect Palestinians on the west bank has made that request unnecessary - or continued intolerable attacks. Hamas clearly wants a war - or a cease fire - either will serve their interests (so they think). The awful thing about events of 2007 is that they show that Hamas has a coherent goal and strategy.

Its pointless conducting the battlefield in Sderot, its time to take the battle to the doorstep of Hamas and Islamic Jihad.Let them worry about their own safety and others from where they source from. Congratulations to Moyal and Barak for taking decisive action on Sderot. Its time the residents were compensated. Retake a strip of the strip or else make it terrorist clear.

yeah right, like Peter from Australia would ever put out a post like that.

"Arabs and muslims is illegally occupying two thirds of original Israeli land." - Roland - or is it Roald? Nisson Not true. Israel today is larger than that portion of the Palestine Mandate given it by the UN. Though, I do NOT argue that said division of the mandate has any legal standing at this time. "This I know as an former UN officer in the middle east." - Roland Really? Then why has the UN repeatedly ruled otherwise in endless -as well as pointless - resolutions. "An entity that attacks a soverigne country , must be taken out by force." - Roland Thus the US should be destroyed for the conquest of Iraq? Get real Roald. "Israel has the wright," - Roland A ship wright? "nd must attack Gaza in full force,and push everyone out into Sinai." - Roland The Gazans must be exterminated you say? Ok Roland, at least you are honest about what you are.

Israel has the wright, and must attack Gaza in full force,and push everyone out into Sinai. Let palestine state be built in northern Sinai. An entity that attacks a soverigne country , must be taken out by force. This I know as an former UN officer in the middle east. Arabs and muslims is illegally occupying two thirds of original Israeli land

the funds needed to compensate those in sderot and the fuel and supply for military operations in gaza should all be paid by PAL withheld funds. why should israeli's bear the price of paying for the active of PAL terrorists and their supporting govt? yes, hamas is a terror group and i still consider hamas the PAL govt, so it is in fact a terror supporting govt.

Every political figure to visit Israel should stay in Sderot. This way they can experience what it's like to live under fire and they can go back to the UN or their own country and tell everyone that the IDF is over reacting and the Arabs aren't trying to hurt anyone.

Never ever, any civilian casualty in Sderot was mentioned as a main humanitarian cause by Mr Levy or Mrs Haas Shame on Haaretz editors, to have those byased people under their payroll I cancelled my subscription to Haaretz

You share the same problem as the rest of the world's terrorists- you have no concept of the value of human life. Move that rocket over a couple feet and there's a dead person. 7 have been killed over the last couple of years from such rockets. Purposeful targeting of innocent civilians- I don't know why people need to cite international law to point out the sickness of such a nation of terrorists.

Yonatan is absolutely correct when he cites the Rabbinic dictum, "Do not judge your fellow man until you are in his place". If both the Palestinians and the Israelis did this, we would have peace in the Levant. Unfortunately, the majority of Palestinians want Israel to consider ONLY their issues. Similarly, the Israeli government wants the Palestinians to consider ONLY their legitimate issues. One thing is clear in this conflict 1) the penchant for "an eye for an eye" governs the thinking in the ME, and 2) each side wants to get the "last dibs". It will require outstanding statesmanship and eloquence from the leaders on both sides, to secure a just, secure, and long lasting peace. And there is only one prophet of the three Mosiac religions who consistently espoused a benevolent approach to conflict; although his Christian followers have long since abandoned his teachings.

For political reasons, Israel has decided that it would be better for Israelis to be shelled than it would be to agree to the truce offered by Hamas.

sado-masochist, or mental defective, mate? what a sickening thing to have said.

I challenge anyone in Israel to answer why olmert the brave isn't living at Sderot, showing solidarity with those Jews who have to suffer a spineless strategy on the part of the gov't. I guess we've come 180 degrees from Entebbe? What? No sounds out of Israel--just the wind and silence. ps. did any of olmert's children serve in the military? Just curious?

..Barak should run the Country ..he has what it takes..strength to him and all our brethern in Sderot

Leftists rather educate foreigners in the cult of Holocaust and Yad Vashem Museum , Leftist rather not invest in Jewish values of education and self defense .

I can remember when the nightly shelling was a fact of life up along the border in Galilee, but that was long ago. Now Sderot has a constant drip, drip, or rather boom, boom going on. I can understand why it was accepted before the Annapolis photo-op, but it is hard to understand now unless Olmert considers having an excuse to starve Palestinians more important than protecting Israelis. There is only one certain method for dealing with ranged weapons. Convince the people shooting them to stop, or force them out of range. We have seen this pattern of behavior in Olmert before. He spent weeks bombing the crap out of Lebanese infrastructure and civilians before he finally was forced to deal with the military problem confronting Israel. Either he is a very slow learner, or we are seeing into the soul - if there is one - of the man.

it was not a direct hit, it struck the porch. I guess you are saying that these rockets are no big deal, ha. Several people have actually died when they exploded in their vicinity. And it does not really matter how dangerous they are, they cause terror and that's the main thing. I would like to see what you would say/do if your town was daily barraged by rockets. You'd probably leave town, you hero you.

If you are really Jewish, then you know the Rabbinic dictum, "Do not judge your fellow man until you are in his place". Sderot Mayor Eli Moyal has been under tremendous pressure for many years, and at a certain point he cracked. That doesn't mean that. after deliberation, he can't change his mind, especially after having been urged by the defense minister to reconsider. Try to place yourself in his position instead of prejudging him.

Mayor Moyal is doing his duty, -if minister of defense Barak ask Him to stay on the job, He definately should !

Answer ; -Hamas & other terror organizations is still there because up until now, I.D.F. has been tiptoeing around, trying not to hurt or kill arab civilians ! This has clearly been going on for much too long now and Israel is getting near the end of her tether.....-it`s high time for decisive action against Hamas & Islamic Jihad sooner rather than later ! I`m outraged for that poor woman in Sderot and wish Her the speediest of recoveries !

Backed down in less than 24 hours.

What should happen, can happen, and will happen are left to the caprices of "the powers that be".

on a house in Sderot only caused light injuries? So just how dangerous are these rockets?

After how many rockets fell? How much damage done? NOW they call it an act of terrorism. Now maybe they'll see what Jews have seen all along, from THEIR perspective. Wishful thinking.

Hamas in Gaza, Islamic Jihad, Martyrs Brigade, just to name few reasons.

And, the IAF hands are tied and Israelis pay the price and are wounded and sometimes die. Get the courts off the battlefield! Hamas has no such restraint and targets civilians as a matter of doctrine.

The action of IDF should not be limited. Northern and Southern Gaza have to be annexed and to be under control of Israel. Residents of these parts must be transfered to Gaza City, and areas must be claimed as military security zones.

Israel is dissolving like a snowman in April,thanks to the Leftie elite living comfy life at the expense of the population.

It is immoral and illegal under international law to target civilians. The Qassam rockets launched at Sderot must stop. It poorly represents Palestinians to used violence that they have not historically condoned but was used upon them.

I wish the injured lady a speedy and complete recovery. I wish the missile firers a speedy and complete come uppance.

Gutted!