Protesters against Haredi single-sex buses: Israel isn't Tehran

"Israel is not Tehran" I wish it was.

Israel is not Tehran. These people pay little taxes, do not defend the country, drain the public purse due to their excessive welfare requirements, enough is enough, Jerusalem is not Riyadh or Tehran.

The haredim are not fighting for their own lines; they want to take over existing lines. This means that anyone else who wants to get from point A to point B has to walk farther, take more buses, etc. They already have free choice on buses - sit next to whoever is there...or not. Nobody makes a haredi man sit next to a woman. I have ridden (accidentally, unknowingly) on a haredi bus. I was NOT allowed to sit in the men's section (and I was not scantily dressed, either). The separation was not voluntary on my part, even though I got on the bus before the "voluntary" separation took place.

This segregation violates women*s equality with men.It is purely chauvinist and disrespectful of women and deprives the Jewish religion from women.The message sent to children is that women are somehow less valuable human beings than men.These children grow up to adults,who keep believeing in this false attitude towards women,which will encourage all kinds of discrimination and abuse of women. Living acc. to the democratic values,of which equality of women is one,provides consistency, which has to be seen work in practise in every sector and social class.Israel canNOT be both a democratic society and allow anti-democratic behavior in the name of "religion".The values of such a "religion" which promote discrimination has to be questioned.It is the religion that has to reform itself and adjust itself to the demands of democracy and not the vice versa.The idea of democracy is to quarantee personal freedom and to protect everybody*s human dignity in pursuit of good,quality life.

I must say that this farce began with "just a few" and has grown like cancer in the heart of Israel. It is no small thing to be beaten for sitting in the "wrong" place, or drinking from the "wrong" fountain, or living in the "wrong" neighborhood. This whole mindset is just plain wrong...and so is the imposition of wrong beliefs about women and those not chosen to be the only "right" with rights...human rights to dignity.

I don't get it. Those who champion free speech and free choice for everyone seem to blatantly demand that Hareidim get no free speech and no free choice. Why does it bother them if Hareidim want their own separate lines? No one is forcing anybody to ride them. Unlike Saudi Arabia, no one will be beheaded or locked away for violating these completely VOLUNTARY segregations. If anything those protesters are more reminiscent of Tehran then the Hareidim. They demand in a very loud and vocal way that an entire segment of the population be denied their rights. This is purely a business decision of Egged: are they willing to do what their customers want or not? I've been on the segregated bus lines (Jerusalem numbers 40, 56, 15A) many times and seen women, dressed quite scantily, sit in the mens section. NEVER have I witnessed any altercations of any kind that other posters seem to think happen often.

Do they have "single-sex buses" in London, Brooklin and Antwerp ?

Does it make the US less democratic? No I personally think its primitive and has nothing to do with Judaism, but many democracies throughout the world do cater to the religious needs of its residents. Israel is a democracy, and its citizens live in a free society capable of coming to their on decisions on whether or not they wish to follow this lifestyle. This is called pluralism folks!

If these freaks of nature want to run a bus service of their own for their own let them. What's the problem?

David Applebaum - Wikipedia, the free encyclopediaHe was chief of the emergency room and trauma services of Jerusalem's Shaare Zedek ... Applebaum was killed in a Palestinian suicide bombing at Cafe Hillel in ... tragic irony: This victim of a suicide bomber was himself an "emergency room ... University's Health Sciences Faculty, and works in emergency medicine. ... en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Applebaum - Cached - Similar

You wrote, "Livni is just being the opportunist as usual she wants to appeal to the woman voter so she is acting like this is a femanism issue." Livni wasn't even there; she merely sent a letter of support. If she really wanted to make an issue of it she would have at least attended. Other MKs did. "Its not doing any harm to anybody & it will keep a bunch of haredi happy so let them have these few routes." Beating up women IS doing harm. Leaving a woman alone at a deserted bus stop along a highway (because the "women's section is full") is doing potential harm. Forcing a 7 year old boy (who didn't know where to get off) to ride in the men's section while his mother rides in back (and gets off without him) is doing harm. None of it harms MEN, you mean!

Anyone aware of what the Haredi did in the War of Independence? The refused to help the Zionists, and at the same time expected to be protected by a nation they deemed illegitimate for religious reasons. Now they insist that that nation support them, and that they be allowed to force that nation, Israel, to be the nation they want. I hope that some way may be found that keeps them from being the toxic force they are today.

You wrote, "These segregated busses are only on a few routes where most the passengers are ultra orthodox who feel more comfortable segregated." Wrong. It is on a number of routes that BEGIN in a haredi neighborhood, where they can take over the bus in the first few stops. Most of each of these routes are not in haredi areas. "Its not something thats going to be extended to other routes or other cities the ultra orthodox in Jerusalem." Wrong again, they're already asking for more routes. "Its not harming anybody because both men & women are allowed to ride the busses, husbands & wives can sit together its basically keeping single men & single women apart." Wrong. Husbands and wives are NOT allowed to sit together; neither (often) are children and an opposite-sex parent, including young children. Women have been beaten up on these buses. That hurts. There is no Halachic reason why a man & woman cannot sit together. You finally got one right.

There are several extreme problems with the segregated buses that wasn't addressed at the protest (which I attended). Women and children are not infrequently endangered by these treif bus lines. Women have been physically attacked for refusing to sit in the back of the bus. Women have also been left alone at deserted bus stops along the highway because "there's no room in the women's section". Young children (age 6-7) have been separated from an opposite-sex parent in the name of "religion", including not being allowed on the same bus as the parent (because there was no room in the "gender-appropriate" section). Women who are traveling through unfamiliar (and, in some cases dangerous) areas are not allowed to sit in front near the driver to be able to ask where to get off. All of the above can endanger lives. But, that's okay, as long as haredi women get to ride buses for free. (And, yes, I actually rode one of these buses--right at the back door--and saw it.)

In contrary to most commentators here, I experienced both segragated busses and beaches in Israel and in Iran. In Iran it was a sad experience as I was afraid even to talk to a girl in public, because I could have been arrested. In Israel all separation is voluntary and not enforced by law, and there are plenty of alternatives. Howvere in Iran, the alternative are whiplashes or prison. Anyone who compares Iran to religious Jew is insane. In a true democracy people can pick their life style even it looks backward. The problem is that many Israelis judge things they don't know. many write about charedim and settlers and have even never spend a whole shabbat with them. It seems eastern asia is closer then Bney Barak or Beit-El. I visited Iran, Syria, Gaza, Amman, Tel-Aviv and have lived with all natives. there is no place as free as Israel.

it's not only islam against homosexuality! It's also christianity and judaism!!! All abrahamic religions... Why should you compare with Tehran?

Livni is just being the opportunist as usual she wants to appeal to the woman voter so she is acting like this is a femanism issue. The religious crowd don't vote for Kadima anyway to try and humiliate the people you know are not going to vote for you to try and get the people who might consider it. As for Horowitz he is Meretz and they are obsessed with civil rights and to them religion is a dirty word and the religious voters go against everything Meretz stands for anyway so its not like they are alienating any potential voters. I am sure plenty of people in that crowd didn't know the full facts & were led to believe it was some kind of racism issue & was going to be extended city wide. Sure some understood the big picture but take the left wing politicans out the picture & the people who didn't understand all the facts how many would have been out there protesting? Its not doing any harm to anybody & it will keep a bunch of haredi happy so let them have these few routes.

Female drivers for women only buses? Something different but a little bit the same, breast feeding babies. Most men of Jewish/Muslim/Christian religions (and others) condemn breast feeding babies in public, even if it is carried out very discreetly. Most shopping centers in Australia have 'parenting rooms' (allows fathers) once called 'nursing mothers' rooms. So even if women want to breast feed out of sight of men they can't... Haredi women have large families, don't deny them segregated buses.

Some haredi have already been looking into the idea of chartering ELAL so they can have a segregated flight. Also no inflight movie, glat kosher all round, females would not serve men. I have personally had an incident on an ELAL flight with a haredi not wanting to sit next to a woman. I had chosen my seat when I booked my flight It was an isle seat and, side row and I had ordered glat kosher meal if its possible to have a decent airplane meal I think glats better. In the middle row there was a haredi and he was sitting next to a woman & her daughter and so he asked me if I would change seats with him. I refused because I had specially chosen my seat so he called over a stewerdes and asked her to speak to me about changing seats which I refused. When they served the meals glat gets served first and this guy hadn't ordered glat so he asks if he can have one and he is told there are no spares. Just as I am about to eat he asks me for my meal because he couldn't get glat.

What bothers Livni et al is the fact that Israel might He-ven forbid appear to be a bona fide Middle Eastern state. Are we supposed to be "a rampart of the west in the east"? I think not.

From hearsay,I understand that are separate seating bus lines in arab populated East Jerusalem.

Caving into the religious*s undemocratic demands strengthens them. Insulate religious communities are unhealthy especially when religiousity is all there is with no outside influences let in, which *d make ppl think independently, critically questioning all that is being given in the name of religion. In insular communities ppl get weird ideas they hold "right", but which encourage abusive behavior, like spitting at Christians or physical punishment of children or single-sex buses. These are abnormal! HELLO! These close communities are safe-havens too to many anti-social personalities and mentally sick ppl, who need professional care and not religion they interprete in their own sick ways. The religious should be helped to the modern times by the gov. and made adopt democratic values instead of letting the religious simmer in their stagnated isolation from the rest of the society and world. It is especially negligent to leave ppl with mental problems unattended!

... to the prohibition of prayer on the Temple Mount - against religious Jews? Not at all. Why is the Left not at all disturbed by this?

To all those who support the single-sex buses on the basis of (1) It doesn't hurt anyone else, (2) Customers set the rules, or (3) Hey, this is a democracy - I ask you to please be honest and answer this: Would you (and the Israeli government) support the same demands had they come from the 1/4 million Arabs living in Jerusalem?

are planted in the minds of the world watching the Janus-like approach of Israel to dealing with the questions of 'equality' with gross unfairness... How about busses in the US or UK 'for Jews only'... seems I remember reading something about that in the history of Germany where I now live... turned out to be a disastrous experiment as I reacalll....

When I was to Israel 3 years ago, I enjoyed to see the beautiful beaches and the relaxed young people there. That's Israel for me, an island of liberty in a sea of suppression. Don't change this status by allowing segregated buses. It will be a shame.

Only Iran threatens to "Wipe Israel off the map." Only Iran murders it's own protesters in the streets of Iran. Iran rapes, tortures, and maims her citizens in MOSQUES. Not assuring for Israeli's or others now, is it? If sanctions don't work, we will thank G-d to see someone, anyone destroy Iran's nuclear capabilities. If Obama hasn't the stones, seems the Israeli's have. GO ISRAEL!!! You and Iran suck

Muslim nations still permit honor killings and female circumcision. The buses can be a danger to women's health in Israel. It is hardly the same but still not acceptable. One reason I disagree w/ Israel, they need to treat women equally. Their women are also soldiers.. They should qualify for the same respect as males PERIOD.

and shouldn't be compared with Iran. Afterall they invented Cherry Tomatoes. First they segregated the buses, then they will segregate the trains, then they will have men only car lanes, you are on a slippery slope to religious fundamentalism. If you are not already riding it.

No.13tell the rabbi who said God let the bus blow up because there was no separation of men and women, if that were true then i don't want anything to do with your God and i am 100% jewish

`When I read the transport minister Katz wants to allow segregated busses for haredim i thought i must be mistaken. This could not be happening in my country in the 21st century! If we go on this way letting the religious block take over the country we don't need any other enemies, they will finish us. Rabbi Ovadia says don't morne people who give organs, is there anything more discusting than that. To help someone to live is wrong? If this goes on the haredim will be the only ones left in this country in another 20 years, they will have driven all normal thinking citizens out of the country.

One must not entertaintain any extreme religious demand no matter how harmless it might be, otherwise be ready for similar increasingly discomforting demands in future.

and when you are thinking to apply sharia law like KSA ?

very correct. Tehran does not segregate buses, the more approrpiate caption should be Israel is not Saudi Arabia, where segregation is draconian (for eg separate entries to restaurants and seating areas)

that 's all they are!!! embarassed to be jewish and follow the jewish way. as far as i am concerned they should move to atheist countries and leave israel to law halacha obiding citizens! i have never seen such anti religiousness like in erez israel and it is a shame on the country!

This has nothing to do with the position of Israeli women per se. This has to do with a larege religious sect that isnot genenerally part of the Israeli consensus whose socisl norms demand segregatioon of the sexes. Egged and the Transportation Ministry acquiessed and set aside anumber of bus routes for this community where there was comparative alternate transpotation for the general public. Where there is not alyternate transportation, Egged doesn't agree to this arrangment. If Haredim try to force such an arangement on lines that have not been authorized as such, such as the lines to the Western Wall, then they should be thwarted. Do the Leftists want to bar separate entrances to Orthodox wedding halls which are also part of the social mores as well? we are not Teheran . Maybe we are Istanbul where religious and secular live side by side.

Does anyone here actually know first hand what is going on? This protest is only a part of a larger battle the more secualr community of israel is fighting. A few months ago a woman was arrested at the western wall for donning a tallit, bc the ultra orthodox were "offended" by it. The issue is not a "few bus lines", the issue is the fear that the ultra orthodox are slowly taking over jersualem. right now its only a few bus lines, but soon it will be all bus lines. as a conservative jew, i seem to offend many ultra orthodox men. its not right, they are showing the world that judaism is a crazed fanatic religion. its not. once again fanatics are ruining my country.

1.Kurds have never rejected their own independent state and Kurds have never attempted nor called for destruction of Iran and Iranians. 2.Israel is NOT a Signatory to the NPT and has no obligation any more than Pakistan ot India,Iran is a signatory and has obligations for full inspection. 3.Israel is subject to Arab/Islamist heavy weight UN GA harrasment and they are not binding. How many UN emergency meetings have there been on Darfur vs Palestine? Why is the UN not in emergency session over the massacre of 500 women and children in Nigeria? etc UN SC resolutions ARE binding not UN GA pleae indicate where Israel has told UN to "FO"? where has UN said Jerusalem belongs to Arabs? 4.Is Netanyahu a religious fanatic is he? Does he speak to the secret Immam? Does he talk about Martyr Nation ruling mountaintops of the world?

I wouldn't be surprised if ElAl will offer seperate flights too in the future.

Back to the dark ages, no worse, back to the Neanderthal period. Our fore mothers have worked so hard for equal rights between both sexes. I cannot understand how Haredi women like to be treated so badly, to be less than their spouses, fathers, brothers. It shows once more that Jews and Muslims are not that different when it comes to womens rights.

1. Israelis treat Palestinians like Iranians treat Kurds 2. Iran doesnt want to allow inspections of nuclear sites and neither does Israel 3. Israel tells the UN to FO on a regular basis and so does Iran 4. Iran is run by religous fanatics and so is Israel 5. Wow there isnt enough difference between the two to tell the difference

I doubt most of the leftists that are protesting even use a public bus. But, as to why women in the back - strollers do not easily fit in the front doors. They do in the back doors. And the truth is women are more likely to be with a stroller. I, a male, would by choice sit in the back.

Judith I am sure that if protestors said we will not object if its the men in the back then Egged & the haredi would be able to accept that. At first glance it looks like the US segregation in the south you mentioned but unlike in the US this isn't about racism its about a group of ultra orthodox jews wanting segregation on a few routes that go through their neighborhoods on religious grounds. Reuven the haredi do sometimes go to extremes which can annoy people and this is probably one of them but other than the fact its not politically correct but as long as its limited to a limited number of routes and everybody is allowed to ride the busses is it really causing any harm? I am personally against bus segregation but in this case i can't see any harm in it as long as the municipality lays down a few ground rules and states this is it and no more routes will be added later.

Actually there were indeed many orthodox attending the demonstration, whether HaAretz chooses to mention it or not. Haredim certainly have the right to arrange for private bus lines which are gender-segregated as exists say running from Monsey to New York City in the US. But using an Egged line is unacceptable.

home till they can controll themselves. Half the world is female live with it.

haredi jews are right and they also have the right to protect thier families from evil and sin .why protest against them ? do liberate israelis want to force religious jews to abandon good and moral jewish ethics ? my 100% support to haredi jews .

Never miss an opportunity to demonize (falsely accuse) Iran Bizarre!

It's not a question of "a few bus lines" any more. At last count there were over 30 segregated bus lines, including intercity buses from Jerusalem to Bnei Brak and Zefat. If Haredi men can't control their urges, then they should be the ones punished, not the women. The idea of sending women to the back of the bus reminds me of the US south in the 50s and 60s.

Ithink many people wouldn't be opposed to the segregation if the men were in the back.Forcing Women in the back reeks of anti-Black segregation in the U.S. old south.

If they were only protesting bus segregation they would have had a larger turnout, with people attending from orthodox groups as well. But most people see Meretz as an extreme leftist anti-religious and ant-Israeli, pro-Arab party.

Planes, airports, trains and stations, highways, streets, supermarkets, schools (the earlier one start the easier it is later), libraries, universities, restaurants, cinema's, gambling houses, drink puts, you name it. I am not a fanatic but I will defend my country and culture might there ever be a single-sex space in Holland in true public space (like public transport). Go single, go private and buy your wife a car too (or vice-versa) or do not go at all.

And added: we do not make our customers, they make themselves and they do it much more often and faster than those who disapprove of single-sex buses. I have to think of my employees. Thank you.

wow turning into Iran. i have been on buses in Iran and they are not segregated. seems to me jews are trying very hard to paint a picture of another county they know nothing about. personally i do not see anything wrong with people wanting to be separate from others. i mean there are spas that are women only all over the world. are you going to protest those as well? whats a couple of buses going to hurt. if you don't like the bus route take another bus for crying out loud. sheesh

i love the way israel screams democracy and rubbishes others and then they have similar backward rules, even in mixed busses a woman has to sit in the rear, tell me, a woman who brings you children that you men love and cherish is not worthy?.

Israeli governemnt is quite similar to the Taliban, they segregate men and women like this also.

If it does not cost taxpayers money to run single sex kosher buses then it is a decision to be made internally by Israelis. I think it it wasteful as more busses are needed to move the same amount of people

The Texas Board of Education just ruled that no textbook sold to any Texas school may mention the fact that the US Constitution, Amendment I, reads "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof . . . " It seems the religious right thinks that such will misinform school children about the sacred right of southern baptists to pass laws ramming their religion down everyone's throat. The religious are harmless when they are kept powerless. If they are allowed power, they will abuse it. As I used to tell republicans when I was still one, "If I want to live in Iran I would move there." Looks like you Israel will have Iranian style theocracy without having to move there. Suggestion. If those folks had to earn a living instead of being on welfare, they wouldn't have time to ram their 16th century mentality down your throats.

Israel comes closer every day to being nothing more than a fundamentalist society hijacked by uber nationalists and Haredi parasites.

THIS is more then a bus line. It is just one political deal made by present Israeli government to stay in control.

They wish to have busses for their particular community with sepperate sections for men and women because they believe it protects them from suicide bombers. There was a Haredi bus that went to the Kotel that was blown up killing many haredi men women children and babies of a particular community. The Rabbi of the community felt God caused the tradegy because the bus was not sepperate seating for men and women. Perhaps you dissagree but at least you might understand this small communities concerns, which seem to be fear from displeasing God and from suicide bombers. I read this information in the Haredi paper Hamodia.

Since I am a male and have no intention of going to Israel, this has no direct effect on me. However I come from a country where some people were told they had to sit in the back of the bus, and I know that I would never tolerate anyone telling me I can't sit in some place because I am a (fill in the blank). If you don't like it, ride another bus or walk.

Well, if they cotinue with the single-sex buses, that will only ensure more eye-candy for the Gay Haredi!

In Tel Aviv you have to look hard and long for a kosher restaurant, or kiosk, and in some cases, for a synagogue, and Ms Livni doesn't seem to mind, yet when Haredim, who form a sizable part of the population in the Jerusalem find a bus company that will fill their needs, its Trayfe, as it were. Heck, if there was a bus that ran from the Haredi areas of Ramat Gan into Bnei Brak, and out to the Haredi areas at the outskirts of that town that ran a line that separated single men and single women some idiots from North TA would protest that, too. Yes, Virginia, married couples and their children can sit together, but single men and single men are separated. If they want to meet, they can find their venues, thank you very much. The fact that Haredim are "there" makes Livni and company upset, but then again, in a Secular-Humanist Israel, Haredim aren't supposed to be part of the picture.

eventually extend to other routes...that's the Haredi plan for the entire country. They already control the government even through they are a tiny minority. These sick contemptuous parasites should be shipped to the WB to live under Palestinian rule once the two state solution is implemented. There is no room for them in our beautiful country.

the haredi majority is nice and decent and sweet people they are the victims of the universal local talibans like ovadias, taitelbaums, schatzs, porushs, eliyahus... tortured, exploited, misled by the supreme figures. blacklist all the eda haredi and their batei dins, yeshivot....judges, and rabbis. they are ridiculous and hurdles of enlightened humanity

"A good Jew doesn't behave violently", perhaps they'd turn their attention to Sheikh Jarrah and Silwan after they've sorted out mehadrin buses?

Which is infinitely more logical than the title of this piece. Zionist forever evidently hasn't been in Jerusalem lately. What started out as a few routes has burgeoned into many, many routes. Zionist forever also needs to reconnect with the Israeli political scene. Livni is not left but right-wing and Meretz is not far-left but centrist. If the haredim want to hire private buses, fine. Why must mehadrin lines be run by Egged and why must they be cheaper than Egged buses for plebs? Why even on Egged buses for plebs do the men take all the double seats and put their shopping not only on the free seat next to them but also on the two seats facing them?

Pretty soon you won't have different living areas for Jews and Muslims -- and then where will you be?

If everybody is ok with and prefer the segregation, then why do you need a law? Everyone that wishes it will stay segregated naturally. It is only those that want to force their beliefs on others that would require it to be a law for all.

I have no issue with segregated bus routes, provided that they are less frequent and do not replace existing so called "mixed" routes. What I do have an issue with are the many non-segregated bus routes that run through haredi areas to places that are mixed. Here, there is informal segregation with women at the back and men at the front: this is creeping Aparthied and the kind of thing that needs to be fought against, as the rights of men and women are being trampled upon by a minority.

Livni used to be in the Likud. She is a centrist, not left at all. This kind of language is typical of the rightwing in America and now seems to have taken hold in Israel as well. Just because someone is not rightwing does not automatically make them left wing. Life is not just black and white, there are also shades of grey you know! sheesh!

This has nothing to do with the position of women in Israeli society. This has nothing to to do with Israeli society per se. It has to do with an isolated religious sect that within their community, segregation of the sexes is a norm. Are they going to bar the separate entrances to orthodox wedding halls? There are the majority of bus lines that are not segregated. Why must the Israeli left force alien neo-colonial western norms on a religious minority? Jerusalem isn't Teheran. Maybe Istanbul.

Like in Tehran? Actually young men and woen who are not related aren't allowed to mix together in Saudi Arabia. In Iran it's homosexuality thats not tolerated like in Jerusalem, whoops wrong analogy. Hang on I'll find something not contrary to western values, seperate number plates on cars nope thatsis not it, freedom to study regardless of religion, nope got me there, freedom of worship, well as a Christian trying to get to Bethlehem, or speaking to young Arabs prevented from praying at Temple Mount not sure that applies. Looks like Israel is actually more intolerant than Iran at times.

BBC programming at it's finest, don't know how they are going to beat the first programme tomorrow night. Ot's not God's grand plan. It is a few nutjobs chasing their 15 minutes of fame. But unfortunatly with Netanyahu's coalition they have more power than they would wield in normal sane countries. Which is why you love living wherever you do, you won't have to meet the nutjobs of your religion, and you can practice it as it should be practiced. (Well almost, without the sacrifice human or otherwise, and the stonings will have to go)

why? are there segregated buses in teheran? i think not. in teheran, there are islamic female mp's soldiers and policewomen. we have no such haredi representation. i think that the demonstrators meant to say that israel is not kandahar.

If people of Israel do not resist, this fenatic will take Israelis to where Iran government took their people. Stand up and do not let them dictate your life. Good luck, you can not live like Iraninan people.

These segregated busses are only on a few routes where most the passengers are ultra orthodox who feel more comfortable segregated. Its not something thats going to be extended to other routes or other cities the ultra orthodox in Jerusalem. Its not harming anybody because both men & women are allowed to ride the busses, husbands & wives can sit together its basically keeping single men & single women apart. There are also many secular women who like this idea because they don't feel comfortable on a crowded bus full of men. There is no Halachic reason why a man & woman cannot sit or stand together if there is no other option but if it makes some over the top ultra orthodox jews happy by having a couple of small bus routes segregated and its not actually harming anybody ( segregation doesn't harm anybody ) then lest not make a fuss over this. Livni & Horowitz are from the left which are traditionally very secular especially the far left like Meretz where religion is a dirty word.

The warmth, the sense of humanity just fills me with Happiness. Happiness, that if I'm lucky I'll never have to speak to one of these nasty bas--rds who call themselves religious. Don't worry, I know they're everywhere and that Fanatics are not exculsive to Judaism. It's just hard to swallow when you've chilled out to some good television about the Sun, the Stars,The Northern Lights and the Aurora. Difficult to figure out where Mikvahs and Tzitsis fit into G-d's Grand Plan.

I see the issue as one of supply and demand.If haredi neighbourhoods request mehadrin buses someone will fill the demand, either on bus company or another. This is how a free economy works. If Haredim demanded mehadrin buses in non-Haredi neighbourhoods I would join the protest. There is clearly no Halachic reason for mehadrin buses as Haredim in London and New York use public transport, and Israeli Haredim seem to survive on 'mixed' airplanes.

In a society that is supposed to promote pluralism, and Kadimah, as well other so-called progressives in the country promote the rights of other sectors of society, what is wrong with Haredim organizing busses that serve their needs. Do Women-only health clinics run by Feminists segegrate against women? Do Health Clubs that have separate units for men and women segregate the sexes? Is it possible that some women don't want to sit next to men in public places, or be treated by medical personnel of the other sex, or exercise in the same room for reasons for other than religious motives. Is the only kind of pluralism that Kadima and company recognize within so-called secular parameters and those Jews are more traditional have to tow the "secular line"? Okay, so the bus passes through a neighborhood that is not identified as Haredi, or, it is "mixed", as it were. Just as you chose to take one bus, or the other, you can chose not to ride the Haredi bus, thank you very much!