Peace Now: Gov't investing excessively in West Bank roads

"Before we declared independence, we invaded Canada for refusing to join our revolt" Amazing how little bits of history make their appearance on these Talkbacks...thanks for the above! I never knew it, but then, I went to school in England...why would they want to discuss America's independence?! Regards

1) Palestine was never a nation and the local Arabs said they didn't want a nation. Explain how that makes it a nation. 2) "explain how the UN has the right to say..." Again, backwards. The UN and European powers created the boundaries of almost all the Arab nations, most of sub-Saharan Africa, Central Asia and other borders. It decided that Taiwan didn't deserve to be considered a nation. It formalized the British decision decision to split Brit India into three nations. 3) "descendants" who's talking about them other than you? "you must agree", no I mustn't. It won't solve anything. 4) "compensation" V "RoR", you're right, there's no bearing. Compensation is a real an oft used policy. RoR is an invention. 5) Right again. There is no RoR. Not for any of the 50+million refugees '45-50. You need to finish High School, focusing on global history, rather than continuing to make a fool of yourself

There were millions more refugees in Eastern Asia after WWII, and tens of millions more in intervening years. The UNHCR's definition of refugees is someone who's live has been in the area, UNWRA's is two years. It is only the Arab people, who declared a war of destruction in '48 on Israel, who refuse to accept the refugees that are their own people. There are still camps in Libya, Egypt, Lebanon, Syria and elsewhere in in the Arab world. The UN Mediator for Palestine reported 472,000 Arab refugees in 1948. When UNWRA redefined refugees, and reported that it did nothing to confirm the status of people registering as refugees, the number moved up to 650,000. Tens of millions of refugees '45-50, all absorbed by their new nations. 800,000 Jews from Arab nations absorbed by their new nations. Why should the Arabs be treated differently just because they tried to kill all the Jews? Or, is that justification alone in your eyes?

1. Please explain how Palestinian acceptance or rejection of the state of Israel has any relevance to the existence of Palestine as a country. 2. Please explain how the UN has the right to say who should have any territory. Again, if UN resolutions as to who should have territory are sacrosanct, you must surely agree that the UN has the right to pass another resolution giving the land to the Palestinians. If not, why not? 3. If the descendants of people who left in 70 have the right to return to their homeland, why don't the descendants of people who left in 1948? After all your quibbling, you must agree that their return would put an end to the current unrest (which is what I said). 4. The compensation for refugees has no bearing on the Palestinians' right to return to their homeland, and is therefore a non sequitur (it doesn't follow). 5. Whether some local people attacked before there were refugees has no bearing on the current right of people to return to their homeland.

So, tell me, did the Founding Fathers say that Canada must become part of the United States, or was it just trying to remove the British presence from there? In fact, as Wikipedia points out (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Revolutionary_War#Canada), "but Arnold's efforts in 1776 delayed a full-scale British counteroffensive...", so it did have a purpose related to the main front. More importantly, what does that tangent have to do with the argument presented by the surrealist? You and he whine about tangents, but live by them yourselves.

R: It's a "non sequitor" when you make an idiotic analogy to 1776 and I point that out? As usual, antisemites think facts and reason are non sequitors. Funny! "The UN has no right to give away someone else`s territory." And how did the UN do that? Oh, right, when it said the ethnic Serbs cleansed from Kosovo lost out and now it was a Muslim place. As for here, UNR181 said both Jews and the invaders could stay here. How's that that giving away? "and their descendants" Really? Point to me anywhere else where they're considered refugees. The UNHCR doesn't do so, only UNWRA. Notice he also doesn't say that all nations should agree to compensate the refugees, since there were 800,000 Jewish ones and 472,000 Arab ones. Finally, lets note that the Arabs attacked before there were refugees, and have attacked for more than 60 years, yet he said Jews and ISrael have no right to "grievances". Yup, he shows he's another ignorant antisemite.

As a matter of fact, very few of the early settlers of the US were Puritans; as many were Catholics, for instance, and they were a small minority. Beyond that, since they were extreme bigots (they hanged people for belonging to other religions), one should hesitate to portraying their opinions as being worthy of following (but I can see how, as a zionist, you relate to them).

"When the US declared independence, it didn`t say Britain should cease to exist." - David Teich No, but before we declared independence, we invaded Canada for refusing to join our revolt.

Another group of non sequiturs and irrelevancies. That palestinians reject the existence of Israel has no relevance to the existence of the country. What the UN says is also irrelevant. If the UN were to say next week that Israel has no right to exist, would you pay attention to that? The UN has no right to give away someone else's territory without their consent. As to attacking Israel, it would seem to me that until Israel decides to return all expropriated lands and allow all former residents and their descendants to return without regard to their religion, there is no other way for them to get redress of their grievances.

May your tribe increase!

Quote " Countries (like the US and Palestine) come into existence. " , The majority of the earliest settlers were Puritans from England. Like their cousins back home, these American Puritans strongly identified with both the historical traditions and customs of the ancient Hebrews of the Old Testament. They viewed their emigration from England as a virtual re-enactment of the Jewish exodus from Egypt: England was Egypt, the king was Pharaoh, the Atlantic Ocean their Red Sea, America was the Land of Israel, and the Indians were the ancient Canaanites. They were the new Israelites, entering into a new covenant with God in a new Promised Land . How many time arabs were manipulated to think they were stronger than ever , How many time arabs thought they could win , Just so to each time eat dust . Arabs should view their emigration from Israel as a virtual re-enactment of the Jewish exodus from Egypt: Israel is Egypt , IDF claws is the taskmaster of Kadima's the Pharaoh-king , arabs are the slaves , the Jordan river their Red Sea, Arabia East of the Jordan river is their Promised Holy Land , and the Ishmaelites of Arabia are the ancient Canaanites. They are the new arabs , entering into a new covenant with God in a new Promised Land , Arabia .

When the US declared independence, it didn't say Britain should cease to exist. Unlike the USA, when the UN (which also didn't exist in 1776) passed UNR181 to create a 2nd Pal majority nation (Jordan's the 1st), the Arab Higher Committee (the equivalent to the US's Founding Fathers), clearly rejected the creation of Palestine, claiming they wanted to be part of Greater Syria and that Israel should also not exist. Fatah and Hamas both still have that demand in their founding documents and existing platform. So are you saying that because there was never a Palestine and the local Arabs rejected it, that they have the right to continue attacking Israel?

Let me guess. 1. Israel is busy building infrastructure as a peace gift to Palestine and Abbas. 2. Settlement Expansion coming, bulldozers full speed ahead! Which do you think is true?

Since you send your posts from New York, you are (I assume) aware that there was no USA until 1776 - that doesn't mean that there is not one today. Countries (like the US and Palestine) come into existence.

Appendix Letter to the Jewish Nation from the French Commander-in-Chief Buonaparte (translated from the Original, 1799) General Headquarters, Jerusalem 1st Floreal, April 20th, 1799, in the year of 7 of the French Republic BUONAPARTE, COMMANDER-IN-CHIEF OF THE ARMIES OF THE FRENCH REPUBLIC IN AFRICA AND ASIA, TO THE RIGHTFUL HEIRS OF PALESTINE. Israelites, unique nation, whom, in thousands of years, lust of conquest and tyranny have been able to be deprived of their ancestral lands, but not of name and national existence! Attentive and impartial observers of the destinies of nations, even though not endowed with the gifts of seers like Isaiah and Joel, have long since also felt what these, with beautiful and uplifting faith, have foretold when they saw the approaching destruction of their kingdom and fatherland: And the ransomed of the Lord shall return, and come to Zion with songs and everlasting joy upon their heads; they shall obtain joy and gladness and sorrow and sighing shall flee away. (Isaiah 35,10) Arise then, with gladness, ye exiled! A war unexampled In the annals of history, waged in self-defense by a nation whose hereditary lands were regarded by its enemies as plunder to be divided, arbitrarily and at their convenience, by a stroke of the pen of Cabinets, avenges its own shame and the shame of the remotest nations, long forgotten under the yoke of slavery, and also, the almost two-thousand-year-old ignominy put upon you; and, while time and circumstances would seem to be least favourable to a restatement of your claims or even to their expression, and indeed to be compelling their complete abandonment, it offers to you at this very time, and contrary to all expectations, Israel¹s patrimony! The young army with which Providence has sent me hither, let by justice and accompanied by victory, has made Jerusalem my headquarters and will, within a few days, transfer them to Damascus, a proximity which is no longer terrifying to David's city. Rightful heirs of Palestine! The great nation which does not trade in men and countries as did those which sold your ancestors unto all people (Joel,4,6) herewith calls on you not indeed to conquer your patrimony; nay, only to take over that which has been conquered and, with that nation¹s warranty and support, to remain master of it to maintain it against all comers. Arise! Show that the former overwhelming might of your oppressors has but repressed the courage of the descendants of those heroes who alliance of brothers would have done honour even to Sparta and Rome (Maccabees 12, 15) but that the two thousand years of treatment as slaves have not succeeded in stifling it. Hasten! Now is the moment, which may not return for thousands of years, to claim the restoration of civic rights among the population of the universe which had been shamefully withheld from you for thousands of years, your political existence as a nation among the nations, and the unlimited natural right to worship Jehovah in accordance with your faith, publicly and most probably forever (Joel 4,20).

Incredible! These guys lost all proportions possible. They must be put on trial.

For the sake of justice, Peace Now, Olmert, Livni, Peres, Barak, the High Court and the Knesset must move to Sderot. And for justice to be served, US Rice and ALL US/EU diplomats visiting or living in Israel who are involved in any way in the peace process must have accommodations in hotels in Sderot - why should they be deprived of experiencing the results of their peace process? LAND in exchange FOR WAR: the Jew-cleansed areas of Gaza have been transformed into global terrorist training grounds and rocket firing sites into Israeli communities. In Sderot, Israeli terrified peace process victims offered up as sacrifices - live in continual fear of constant daily rocket attacks. Their desperate pleas for help are cruelly ignored! The immoral peace process based on venomous Jew-hate and ruthless, forcible ethnic Jew-cleansing - REQUIRES Jews to ACCEPT being maimed and MURDERED. STOP Inciting Children to Murder! http://www.teachkidspeace.com/flash.php

on earth, especially the Jewish Holy Land. There NEVER was an Arab country of Palestine. Jerusalem was NEVER the capital of any Arab or Muslim entity. Jerusalem is mentioned over 700 times in the Jewish Bible, not once in the Koran. Jews have had a continuous presence in Israel for 4,000 years. Arabs first started calling themselves "Palestinians" in 1967. Arafat was the first leader of this new people. Before 1948, Jews were known as the Palestinians. The Jewish newspaper, the Jerusalem Post was called the Palestine Post. The Jewish-founded electric company was Palestine Electric. The Palestinian Symphony Orchestra was all Jewish. During World War II, the British army had a Palestinian Brigade made up entirely of Jewish volunteers.

should dedicate a dirt road under Peace Now mane

to efficiently exploit 'friendly' public transportation , peace now is a jobnik whiner ,

Peace now has no say in Budget Gov't allocation, peace now should go back to west bank sunny , dusty dirt roads ,

Peace never is investing too much money in Judea-Samaria and not enough in Sderot.

upation , Separation wall is legal and moral , IDF is not a High Court branch , High Court ruling is pissng on Legislative territory , wich is exactly the instigation goal of Peace Now ,

The Israeli settlers are getting the best treatment, of course. They even have their own road, far better maintained than the Palestinians. In apartheid South Africa blacks and white shared the same roads atleast. What we witness in the West Bank is treatment worst than what the blacks got, in everyway.

Al qaida's terror plans are planned in dirt road , in back alleys with the political cover of leftits palaces halls ,

Shalom Achshav and MILLIONS of ISRAELIS live here You DO NOT Now who are the foreigners?

I do believe that the political parties and the government are too full of hangers-on who value the votes of the settlers and are not worried about the rest of us.

"It is very sad that because these Muslims are so filled with violence and hate towards Jewish innocents that by-pass roads have to be built in an attempt to protect from vicious, violent Muslim rock throwers" These settlers are present in the West bank illegally and do not belong there. The solution to the rock throwing is to remove them from the West Bank and not to bulid apartheid roads at the expense of both the Palestinians and the Israelis living elsewhere in Israel. I doubt you will understand this because you are so God-infested you cannot think logically....

The government of Israel is being nice to settlers? Oh Please! Maybe they dont have TV's and didn't see Jewish settlers being thrown out of their homes?

i don't understand what peace now wants to accomplish? common sense dictates that israel must invest in enhancing the infrustructure of the west bank. if peace now wants to keep alive the archaic dark narrow minded view that israel must relinquish control of this land, it is only showing that it is out of touch of reality. do they want the world to go backwards & help create hamastan #2? their support of the "oslo process" caused destruction that is so high it is unquantifiable. for an organizatiion that has peace as part of it's name it sure appears to be promoting more killing & a war-like atmosphere.

Why dont you cleanup your own backyard first. You live in filth.

You should try to join it and work for Peace, and you will definitely find Peace of mind.Shalom

The foreign funded and directed insurgents of P Now are never elected to form the gov.t in Israel because they do not represent a significant portion of the country. The seperate roads for Israelis (Jewish, Muslim, Christian, Druze etc) are necessary because past experience has shown that Israelis are attacked and killed on the other roads in Judea and Sammaria. As for budget allocations, one could just as easily say money spent to chase P Now insurgents and friends away from military activities could be spent on builing a wall in the Arava. The money needed to protect the entire western negev could have been used for many projects if there wouldn't have been a racist expuslion of Jews from Gaza and there wouldn't be rockets flying daily. To correspond budgetary allocations for things you don't like against allocations you would like is not practical. If you don't like something protest its inclusion. If you like it push for its inclusion.

Peace Now = Foreign Agents = Traitors. Where do they get their funds from, and what is the definition of a foreign agent and doesn't that make them Traitors.

Black-hearted = all of the above.

If there's something faulty in the reasoning or facts of this article - or the original Peace Now claims - dispute them. But calling them terrorists or claiming they wish to destroy Israel is both pointless and low.

Speaking of being full of it, how about a person who calls people who try to keep Israelis alive by preventing road deaths terrorists? Terrorists try to take lives, not save them.

It is very sad that because these Muslims are so filled with violence and hate towards Jewish innocents that by-pass roads have to be built in an attempt to protect from vicious, violent Muslim rock throwers. G-D's biblical requirement for ALL humanity is KINDNESS: And what does the L-RD require of you but to do justice, to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your G-D. Micah 6 The Creator - Master of the Universe - is merciful and kind beyond words to express.

They are nothing more than a bunch of Jewish terrorists bent on destroying Israel.

So now we know. There are roads for Jews only and more will be built - at our expense. We are infuriated when outsiders criticise us for what look like apartheid policies. These roads and the announcement about Barak negotiating with yesha over the future of illegal hilltop outposts makes it impossible to deny the charge. And where does the responsibility for this currently lie? With the new Emperor of the Settlements - Imperator Barak.