Palestinians: IDF tanks, troops move into northern Gaza

Each and every time that Palestinian's lob Kassam's at Israel, Israel should exchange a salvo of cluster bombs.

i don't remember hating them though.when i read that book by jose rizal, the noli me tangere(the weapon he used to insult spaniards)...i do not want to read it anymore.for some reason, i get along well with spanish or hispanic people.glad to hear from you.adios.

I am also curious as to what Bonita meant by "yellow colors". What I cannot understand is that you used to hate the Spaniards, having some Spanish blood yourself. Yes, I am Spaniard.

i wrote to bonita. are you from spain? i'm sure you're not like them(them-were the one who ruled us before). by the way, i don't hate them, i have a little bit of spanish blood myself.and i don't want to read the books by jose rizal, "noli me tangere" and "el filibusterismo" anymore...hatred towards japanese or spaniards won't get me anywere.as i said i get along well with them.i'm sorry if i hurt your feelings, bonita. i forgive you for calling us yellow colours(what do you mean by that anyway).

Its about time!!Now the chief of staff is learning from his mistakes before we loose more soldiers.Clear the whole area of the hamas and stop the rckets getting to Israel

I don't care which one you claim you are. I replied to a message.

to write nice-nice answers to his own postings.

Then, by her standards, I am an Israelí and a Jew. Many thanks for telling me.;)

I don?t believe it is an offense for the victims of the Holocaust. I am not Jewish. However, the situation today reminds me of the times previous to it. The Jews are again made responsible for all the problems in the world and we have other totalitarianism threatening the world.

Click, You got to be constructive not destructive. what do you propose be done to poeaople who not only allow destruction to rain from their territory but encourage it and vote for it. The Palestinians democratically elected Hamas. no question about that. So their majority elected to attack Israel rateher than to recognize and negotiate a peace. Given those facts (excuse the term, swince you make your own facts) Can you articulate why Israel should not destroy the palestinians once and for all?

MArgaret, you seem to not want to read my contributions to Talkback when it concerns Palestinian terror crimes against Israeli civilians. If you did want to read them, you would find out that I fully and utterly dispise their acts. They are criminal and counter-productive to the cause they say they have. So please stop being so selective in what you read. Now you make a big mistake like Yonatan assuming that the Middle East situation is comparable to the Holocaust. Let me tell you again: it is NOT. I think it is deeply disrespectfull fort the victims of the nazis to compare their ordeal with what is happening in Israel and Palestine. This is exactly the same criticism I have of Palestinians who say that Israelis are nazis and the occupation of Palestine is comparable with the Holocaust. It is cetainly NOT.

lol That's OK I have been confused with our Defense Minister, Peretz. Not so popular right now.

lol That's OK I have been confused with our Defense Minister, Peretz. Not so popular right now.

Sayed Kashua you touch my heart every time you write.

Definitely a he, Yossi. I am as bearded as an ayatollah.

"Get a room you two" Got it! Top floor facing Lebanon. No bombshelter though. Clickfool you are welcome for dinner anytime either now or during the next war. Good, friendly, albeit vigorous debate is always welcome in my home and we will never come to blows either! Cheers

You should have carried on reading Talkback before replying, Jasmine. The man who left #105 was clearly not the real Clickfool. Have you come to message #113 yet?

The great thing about a "Lebo-style" attack on Gaza is that the Palestinians don't have any real means to resist, isn't it, Jason? Should be a good, impressive show by the brave boys of the IDF, don't you think? Perhaps the Israelis will begin to forget the mauling they had at the hands of Hezbollah and start to feel better about themeselves again.

Hey Man Back off. One of the best things about Israel and Israelis, hardliners and moderates is our ability to debate the issue and freedom of speech. We have a great sense of humour and never will we give up hope for the Promised Land. A guy or gal like Clickfool and his/her consistent and continual harrassment, doggedly adhereing to the same line of anti Irsrael, Anti USA, pro Pal etc... is most of the time meant to bait us and create a storm on talkback of which he/she does on a regular basis, with glee! Much of his/her taunts are easily refuted. So why get your knickers in such a twist over somebody living in the UK with no real upfront and personal experience in living in this Holiest of Holy Lands. In my opinion giving a fool room to move only proves to more people what a fool he/she is. The only real problem with Clickfool is he/she is no fool and does what he/she does with a deliberate, calculated intent and motive. Fools be beware!

Get a room you two LOL

The people in Gaza are not defenceless. They reason for the IDF striking there is that they are launching qassams at Israel.

It depends. When you are at war you kill enemies. Besides, if you want to put the terrorists on trial, first you have to catch them but if you cannot, you are not left other option. It is the same with the police if they see somebody trying to kill other people. If they cannot catch him, they shoot at him. In the pal case, if the PA arrested the terrorists, Israel wouldn?t have to shoot at them. But the pal government encourages terrorism and is terrorist itself.

I dont know where Bonita is from. But I know the Spaniards are very nice people in general.

Have a look around this newspaper, Raymond Deane. The pals are certainly not defenseless.

Then they should have the brains they were born with and get together with Fatah and make a real government for the people. Do you think that they are doing their children any favours by turning what was a garden paradise when the Israelis were there into an armed camp in the desert? But Clickfool and his ilk encourage the bloodshed and the hatred because they enjoy seeing Jews hurt. Strange logic.

All those Fatah men in Gaza killing the Hamas are IDF too. I get it! And the Hamas people who report this are stupid enough not to know the difference between a Jew and an Arab.

Dutch means if you are an Israeli you are wrong. If you are a Jew you are wrong. She isn't very subtle

Whenever I see sports events with Australian participants I cheer for the Auzzies. Fair dos, they cheer for us!

Gaza children have nothing to do. They hang around and watch gunfights as if its the movies and frequently get in the way. Nobody shoos them away. They are passively, if not actively, human shields.

are you from spain?...i'm sure you're not like them.by the way, i get along with spanish or hispanic people and even japanese.

I think Hamas and Hezbollah are children sacrificers: always kids are useful to be photographed for western media and making people change their minds in the middle of a war,,, and the are useful throwing stones to tanks, while adults are hidden behind them and they have big weapongs. When a nation do not want to sacrifice the kids, dead children are less than dead adults. For example: in floods in Santa Fe in Argentina - 2003, there where 28 dead people and just 1 boy, and citizenship is still crying him. All the other children (more than 150 000) where protected in schools while their families where looking for their homes. Maybe there are SOME OTHER AIM

Go ahead, keep blaming the injured party,and not the ones firing off the missiles. remember, for every action there is a reaction.

KUTW, I disagree - extrajudicinal killings amount to murder according to any decent legal or moral standard. And children are typically not believed to be criminally accountable to the same standards as adults. I can only assume this is true also under Israeli law. If you believe in things like democracy and the so-called "rule of law", you don't approve of killing kids either as collateral damage, or because they get involved in criminal acts...even extrajudicinal killings of adults is hightly questionable - if I'm not mistaken international law allows only law-enforcement in occupied territory - ie arrests and subsequent trial by court of law

Hi Harizon, This may again be a case of confusion between dislike for a government's actions, and hatred for every individual hailing from that country. Clickfool and Yossi may not agree on how peace in the ME should be achieved, but they're showing respect to the other person's points of view, and the willingness to have a proper debate on the matter. In my opinion that should be encouraged, rather than implying Yossi is supporting the enemy. Whenever I've debated politics with any of my Israeli friends/aquaintances, we never managed to agree on much (or anything to be honest)...but that doesn't mean I don't respect them as human beings, and appreciate them sharing their opinions with me. A lot of people don't agree with Israeli politics - but that doesn't make us against the people there. Anyhow - I'd think this respect across the political divide should be cheered on - not derided. But that'll be the idealist speaking again :p best, Wouter

do you honestly think its slaughter when you kill terrorists?? what do you think shoudl happen to those who killed 7 and wounded 75??? real numbers are probably twice as high. will abass or hamas do anything to these people? my hopes is that they keep killing each other and let isreal save its bombs and bullets. keep up the fighting fatah and hamas but be more acurate as you go. how many bullets did you waste and only kill 7?? practice your accuracy.

They were helping those who launch qassams, which makes them terrorists. How can you say they were children, when they were cooperating with terrorists? If they had been children, would their parents allowed them to do that job?

There were no agreed upon borders before the 1967 war. There were incesant attacks upon Israeli towns and farms accross those "borders" from Lebanon, Syria (Golan), Jordean (west bank) and Egypt (Gaza). Please do not reytreaqt form the borders and please retake Gaza and expel all its inhabitants. They are your sworn enemy--don't aid them. The world will complain when they are removed and the world will complain when they defeat and murder you, but you won't be there to hear. so do what is necessary. move the Gazan's to lebanon and syria to be with brother Hezballah. Better stil send them to France!

Is this guy serious? Tell him to take off his costume and retire already, wasnt the Lebanon loss enough?

Who and where are the arab/palestinian/moslem innocents? Their children are taught from birth through adulthood to murder jews. That is so in european mosques, akistaniin madrassas or in american islamic centers. They are programed to be cheap, self propelled, smart, bomb bearing misiles. They are the real weapons of mass destruction. They are in fact the multiple rentry intercontinental vehicle (MIRVs) missiles. They must be destroyed before reaching their targets. Their production factories must be obliterated if the rest of the world is to be saved.

Having been soundly thrashed in Lebanon, this disgusting war-criminal is now proposing to take it out on the defenceless people of Gaza. He has all the makings of a future prime minister.

needs the heroics of bombing up empty buildings and empty fields. IDF became a scam ridden organization headed by scam artists as generals and no better than that politicians .

Israel has an obligation to protect its citizens. The current policy is a failure. A more severe response is now warranted. Remember: "Never Again!"

You're only jealous, Harzion. (;-) CF

"hi yossi did you mean the time when clickfool told israel"i spit in your face" the sentence was certainly well constructed." You're distorting what I said, Harzion. I was responding to a headline that said that a speech by Nasrullah was "spitting in Israel's face". My comment was "after all the destruction and death of innocents Israel has caused in South Lebanon, who wouldn't want to spit in Israel's face?" This is a view to which I continue to subscribe.

Because they bitch slap the IDF and now the IDF are getting their manhood back (saving face) by hitting Pales hard, poor pales.

clickfool must have thought "great i get to abuse and curse them and they thank me.so who needs motley fool?" thanks yossi.

"israel is a nation of thugs" critique of this contribution 1 clear? yes 2 well constructed sentence?yes in a manner of speaking. 3 a valuable contribution?over to you yossi.

hi yossi did you mean the time when clickfool told israel"i spit in your face" the sentence was certainly well constructed.

Q: How do we succed militarely if this manner already failed? A: Simple, u use more frorce.

you are a settler on stolen aboriginal land

Only KUTW use this tactic. If you look at Kim posts. 2nd try and then put this mark [:] all the time.

"the Hebrew speaking person will spell it Kassam.' Not necessarily; it depends on their knowledge of the equivalency of the consonants. Those who lnow that the first consonant of Qassam is equivalent ot the Hebrew qof and not the Hebrew kaf will spell it, like I do, Qassam. That still doesn't rule out the ossibility that the fake Clickfool is Israeli or Jewish. Well, let him have his fun. If Clickfool is a man, he can take it.

Thanks for the chuckle, Adel. Nice guess, but no cigar. I am....er....how shall I put it?.....intact.... (;-) CF

Halutz is mulling. Well that is some progess but why to the Press??? Why isn't this man able to go ahead and launch an offensive that will,effectivily, halt the bombardment of Sderot and south Ashkelon?? So he is "mulling", so what?? Saying so to the Press will impress the terrorists and make them give up the bombardment? It will make him look smart?? Pack your bags man and go home. We don't need a second fiasco.

Quote " We disagreed when it cames to the Middle East issue but that was it., " What new in your quote , It is no surprise , for your next quote is the proof Quote " The problem with Qassam rockets is that your government destroyed all the Palestinian authority capability to stop these qassams. " Not true ,since pals PA use that capability to brutalize their own salary servants protesters or thru fatah-hamas political rivalry murders , and they refuse to use that PA capability to stop quassams fired on sderot , so it is only logical to say hat they use it only for that mafia to keep it on runing on the back of their regulars pals , should i say "peace loving pals " . You certainly prefer to blame others for your own mess , could the following describes you " give me whatever i want , when i want or ...and in any case it is your fault." Your bent mirror is in need of repair.

Salaam Shalom, Adel, So how do we make the PA a strong peace partner? We can not faithfully negiotate we a neighbour if the end game for the neigbour is our destruction. If peace is wanted by the Pals then Israel will step up to the plate. But if the opinion polls stated in the Haaretz are to be believed then around 60% of the Pals don't want Hamas to remove from their foundation documents the destruction of Israel. What to do? Jews are here to stay, actually they never completely left. So what can be done Adel?

Salam, Shalom, No one likes to see innocent people die from either side, We have Jews hear in Bahrain and have no problems with them, I lived in the U.K next to a Jewish family they welcomed me and I used to spend good socializing time with them. We disagreed when it cames to the Middle East issue but that was it., The problem with Qassam rockets is that your government destroyed all the Palestinian authority capability to stop these qassams. I believe only a peace treaty with a strong Palastinian Authority will end all violence in the Middle East.

I am sure the fake Clickfool is a Jew; Arabs spel Qassam as they speak it with a Qassam the Hebrew speaking person will spell it Kassam. Welcome back clickfool.

And I pray for a great year for you and yours too! :) Cheers

A very Happy New Year, Yossi. May the coming year bring much happiness for you and your family.

You wrote the same letter yesterday, and the day before...and the day before...and... Anything new to contribute to this forum? Maybe you shuld contact Stephen Murray; he lives in Amsterdam too and suffers from the repetition syndrome. Perhaps the two of you can concoct something new,

"What happened to PROOF, what happened to a judical system to prove guilt?" This is not a game of cops-and-robbers, but a low-grade war against terrorists who wish to carry out politically-motivated acts of violence against non-combatants. It is sufficient to know that such terrorists belong to or are active in a terrorist organization, such as the Al Aqsa Martyr Brigades, in order to attack them. Similarly, it is sufficient to know that a uniformed and armed soldier belongs to an enemy army at war with you in order to attack him.

Stephen, The proof is the landed Qassams on Sderot, do we need any other proof? Pals must act like civilians, they must avoid sending nukes from inside of the civilians, otherwise they are combatatans. Why don't you criticize Pals instead Israel. If you were living in Sderot did you accept the landing of Qassams? I doubt if you have any answers to my questions other than repeated rhetorics. Aby

Hey welcome back. While I sit firmly on the other side of the arguments you often comment on. I am always happy to read your posts as at least they are well contructed. Even if I disagree with most of what you say. It is a shame that others would try to mimick you and muddy the waters of your arguments which are mostly very clear, albeit very slanted and often times ignoring history. Cheers! Keep your posts coming, as it is fun to spar with you on occasion.

Salaam/Shalom Khalid, It is very sad Kahlid that "innocents" are killed, when the IDF and the IAF strike at combatants who operate within "Innocent neibourhoods" As they do in Gaza and as they did in much of Southern Lebanon. It is of course a great strategy on their part, to gain world sympathy. Tis strange though when the IAF strike a combatant target and innocents are unintentionlly killed , Isreal is the villian the "Murderer of Innocents", but when the "Gazian Terrorists" (your freedom fighters) or "Hezbollah Terrorists" (your freedom fighters) intentionally fire at "Innocent Neigbourhoods" and kill innocents, then the Muslim community is silent on the "Murder" issue. Infact they usually have a party in the street anytime any one of their rockets or suicide bombers kills innocents in Isreal, Jews, Christians, Muslims or Druze. A strange, and bloodthirsty habit wouldn't you agree?? I'm am sure Allah is not happy with this practice and this behaviour as are most moderate Muslims.

Reason One: Check the time it was posted. I'd left Talkback several hours earlier (see the message I left at 10.49pm on the Bradley Burston board). Reason Two: The message is mad. I don't believe the Israelis did fire the Qassams, as the poster claims. Reason Three: Spelling - I never spell Qassams with a "K". Reason Four: the style isn't me. The sentences are clunky and poorly balanced. I write much better than that. I would never say "UN should have radar watching IDF bases for kassam firings." Instead I would probably have said "UN radar should be watching IDF bases for fake Qassam firings". Reason Five: the idea that the UN actually has bases from which to watch possible IDF rocket lauches is a nonsense. Folks, once again you have to ask yourself why this poster would masquerade as me.

A few handguns and some homemade rockets....shouldn't threaten the brave boys of the IDF too much. So much safer, more agreeable and more predictable than war against Hezbollah, don't you think, with their very, very unpleasant modern weaponry? No doubt Halutz fancies showing what a brilliant director of military operations he is.

Israel needs to develop its own small, inexpensive, semi-guided missile batteries similar to kassams but with a guidance system. No sense wasting a good rocket by having it land in a sand dune. Locate batteries of these rockets at Sderot, Ashkelon, Yad Mordechai and other locations the Pals shoot at. If the Pals fire a kassam at an Israeli community, let the Israeli community fire 10 kassams back. Only make sure they hit building in Gaza and not just sand dunes as the IDF was forced to do with its artillery for months.

a few days ago, the Israeli occupation army murdered two brothers, children, in northern Gaza. And we had the army claimed they were terrorists. And the Israeli media just parrots the army.

Just today a 76 year old Jewish lady,probaly someones grandma, and a little boy were injured by rockets fired by terrorists who pretty much openly admit they want to do the same thing to all Israeli Jews that the Nazis did to Jews during World War 2? Why doesn't that upset you? People like you always cry when Arab civilians are killed during Israeli counter terror operations, yet we never hear people like you complain when the Arab terrorists bombed the pizza parlor full of Jewish families,or when they brutally murdered the pregnant Jewish mom and her 5 small daughters.If you really so horrified by the Holocaust, why don't you ever complain when Jews are targeted again for genocide? This may sound harsh,but frankly I can understand why people like Yotanan think your antisemitic,people you always stand up for the human rights of the Palestinians but never show one ounce of concern for Israelis and their human right not to be randomly murdered just because their Israeli

In any country on earth-a person entering a bank with a gun in his hand-the pupose being robbery of that bank, should not be surprised that the security guard will shoot him dead! In Gaza, as in any city of the world, If a person sets up a rocket launcher, and places a rocket for the purpose of robbering the life of another human being in a city of Israel-should not be surprise if the IDF will shoot him dead! If these same Gazans planted grops, improved such a valuable track of land. other countrys would view their positive manner, and invest in making Gaza an important sea port and tourest attraction,,,but this will NEVER happen never as long as the "father" teachers his son and the mother teachers her daugther how to "HATE

Send them to hell, where they belong. Big surprise for them I suppose when they wake up in hell, not in paradise.

so stay away from us.

Those kassams are probably being fired at Sderot from an IDF base in the Negev. Israel has to have excuses to continue occupying Gaza, attacking and harassing innocent Palestinians, and in general making life miserable. Kassams are also a good excuse for murdering Palestinians. UN should have radar watching IDF bases for kassam firings.

"More immoral and unnecessary killing... This is cruel and barbaric and it has caused more unnecessary deaths" Dutch You confused the forums. Your post should be placed on another Haaretz' forum in response to the article about elderly women wounded in Sderot. Or your "logic" does not apply to Jews?! Hamas's killings are, of course, "moral and necessary" What a beutiful mind!

Those two people were cooperating with the terrorists. And you say their leaders hid in the tunnels. That bunch of cowards sent them and hid like rats. Those people were not two boys. By pal standards they were adults to cooperate in the qassam launchings. If they had been children, how would their parents have allowed them to do such a dangerous job? By the way, the Green Line is not a border but a cease-fire line.

this is a lame excuse created by your leaders in order not to take responssibility for their people

i admit we have a bad government.i wish we're still under the territory of the usa. and never ruled by the spaniards.why are you there in australia? are you not wishing? wishing that you and your people will submit to the jewish government...admit it, they're blessed.

Mohmmed,by now you should know that this entire convesation about jewish occupation is a lame excuse by the Arabs to put other Arabs into deep sleep in order not to accept responsibility for for their lives,and also for their leadres to keep all the money they receive for themselve. Blaming the jews is a shot cut.

The second stupidity in Yonatans argument #88 is his implication that I would be unhappy that my grandparents weren`t successful in taking part in the Holocaust. In this way he says: Ernst, you are a nazi. Thus, he connects criticism of Israel to nazism and fails to understand that the relatively small crime of occupation and Palestinian oppression is something completely different from the horrors of the Holocaust. Yonatan, I am happy to sicken you, because I would REALLY feel terrible if you liked me.

Yonatan makes two rather embarrasing mistakes: First he doesn`t read my contribution fully. He confuses criticism of ISRAELI violence against Palestinians with suspicion against Jews. Well, I am not so sick to believe -like Yonatan- that treating Palestinians with violence is a de facto JEWISH thing, something that is inherent to being a Jew. That somewhere in the Torah could be written ~though shallt oppress Palestinians in order to be a good Jew` No, my idea is exactly the opposite: Jewish tradition teaches us -Jews and non-Jews- the importance of justice and the fight for peace. Yonatan made the anti-semitical connection, I oppose it. Yonatan tries to push his anti-semitical view of the world upon me, but he fails miserably.

Maybe there were terrorists outside, and the IDF is also hunting them down. They found that one at home and didn?t want to surrender so they struck the house and goodbye the house and the terrorist. That thug has not been left homeless. He?s now in heavens enjoying his 72 so-called virgins. I guess he didn?t want to surrender so to get his reward. You mean it is wrong to be a terrorist and, at the same time, it is wrong to persecute terrorists. This is a paradox, which would lead us to strange situations. It is wrong to be a thief and, at the same time, it is wrong for the police to catch him. And you also mean that we have to get along with our enemies. Therefore, if a thief robs you, you have to respect him; if somebody wants to kill you, you have to respect him, etc.

Terrorist in Gaza are too stupid to realize they achieve nothing by firing at Israel. International community, except for the left-wing nutjobs stopped supporting them a long time ago. Israel takes out these idiots one by one, while the Palestinian civilians suffer without jobs or access to Israel market. Where are the Palestinian moderates to finally realize that peace and trade is better than war and destruction.

Its time to admit what is obvious - Palestinians failed in electing Hamas to power. It brought nothing but problems, isolation, violence. There is no one else left to blame. Israel left Gaza and it became worse than Somalia with clans fighting each other and terrorists using civilians to attack Israel and each other. The only moderate Abbas has little power.

palestinians putting their childrens in harms way is not surprising at all. some how they decided that it is more important to kill a jew then to live!! WHY? GO ASK THEM? klickfool this is a question for you ask of your friends!!

Mohammad, what "resistance" are you talking about? What is Gazan resistance for? Gaza is no longer occupied by Israelis but Kassam rockets are falling on Sderot and Ashkelon. Does this means that Gazan/Palestinian resistance is to get rid of occupation in these cities, and then in Tel-Aviv, Haifa, Jerusalem, etc... in all land "occupied" by the "Zionist enemy" - a popular term used by jihadists? Look, when you speak, be honest about your intentions. I understood that you are very unhappy when Israel reacts to your bombardment of their civilians. My suggestion is to stop what you guys are doing, reassess the situation you've created and start working toward better life in peace with your neighbors.

"Israelis kids are no taught neither incited to hatred , " Glad to hear it! But all Israelis are brought up to man checkpoints and fly warplanes. You can't deny that. That they all do so without hatred remains open to debate. Pity some of that energy doesn't go into genuine peace building. As long as the pre-conditions stand, the ball is still in the Israeli court.

in Sderot". This is terror. Not only did an elderly woman and a young child injured, but they and the people around them have been terrorised in a way one can not fully understand unless you live in an area that is constantly targeted by rockets, bullets and explosives. This is terror. I, therefore, ask those readers from abroad who really do not know and can not know the feeling of what terror is: learn how to be critical of the sources of terror, not only of Israel that defends its citizens from the terror inflicted upon them DAILY!!!

and whats your voice on the arab world wanting to kill the pop over a quote. do words really kill?? firing a rocket into another country deserves a response and a massive response until these people get the point. what do you suggest isreal do? move its citizen out of the way of the rockets?? i'm sure you will say yes and the next question is how far into the sea?

who will be the next prize winners of a pile of rubble?? this time the rockets wounded people so i would say lets take out 4 buildings in response. when will you in gaza learn that it doesnt pay to fire rockets into isreal??? maybe not until your building is brought to rubble.

"The vague reporting of the IAF press office will only increase the suspicions of the world against the Israeli violent treatment of Palestinians." Yes, we Jews are a "suspicious" people. Is that why so many Dutch handed Jews over to the Nazis in World War II. Was your father or grandfather one of them? Sorry they didn't finish the job? Your "thinly veiled" Jew-hatred sickens me.

The two boys were at the wrong place at the wrong time. I am sure the resistance fighters that fired the rockets vanished into the underground tunnels od Gaza. so the terror army gets the 2 boys. What a disgrace! By the way, israel can stop all this killing of civilians on both sides by going back to 67 borders.

Israel gov't thinks it's only rain while Peretz Head of Israel Defence is one of sderot residents . Mayor of sderot demands that the Israel gov't stop the murderous quassams rockets , and the response to him is " we gave you money , get lost " .

Kim, When are you ever going to get it? Even if there was "a terrorist inside" as you said (I say what about the IAF terrorists outside?), this still doesn't give the IAF the Right to go and murder someone. One wrong doesn't justify another. This is old principle and all our civil and western societies embrace this form of justice. Thus the IAF has no right. It simply doesn't exist. We don't kill off our enemies in the modern world --we learn to get along with them. Dutch

So.... Arabs are never at fault for killing Jews... or for trying to kill Jews... Because it's the Jews who are at fault for being Jews.... Got it. Thanks for playing. Peace Out, Yo.

If those groups are really peace and justice groups, they will do their best to bring the pal leaders to court.

There are australian politicals who support Palestin 100. Its the people of Hobart who cause headeach.

What gave them the right to strike the house is that there was a terrorist inside.

If those groups are really peace and justice groups, they will do their best to bring the pal leaders to court.

Boys? Hardly, combatants YES. They wanted to get involved, they were engulfed by their own nefarious activities. It's a pity that their mothers didn't teach them not to play with fire or implements of war. Pass the candies! Parade the Caskets!

Gaza boy is asleep, when you wake, sleep tight and lets hope your knowledge s. You are giving us Ozzies a bad name, but then you aren't really one or you would not call yourself 'gaza boy'. Most australians and major political parties support Israel 100%

"In recent months, Palestinian militant groups have sent children to collect the rocket launchers," And not one Palestinian will condemn these noble terrorists who murder their own, I'll bet.

What gave them the right to strike the house is that there was a terrorist inside.

If those groups are really peace and justice groups, they will do their best to bring the pal leaders to court.

I have to recommend you study history. Of course, he didn?t do it with his money. But he did administer the resources of the country very well. Arafat killed many people and, far from using the international aid to benefit his people, used it to benefit himself. Keep playing with the kangaroos.

Is it because they like the phillipinian food and drugs? are you going to occupy them too:) I'm sorry Haaretz I will go to sleep now, too much Aust wine.

Its one of the best landmark in world during the Morrocan occupation to Spain. Idiot Morrocan why they built such a nice palace on Spannish land, couldn't they just built it in Malta or Tunisia. Now the spannish are eating the cake and benefit from Alhambra because people go to spain to see alhambra only not to see spain.

Gaza Boy, you should really call yourself Sydney Boy. Always a cheerleader, never a participant!

Doris: Hmm, writing under another fake name?? Once upon a time you had backbone, now it seems to be jelly.

Those very same Lebanese "Civilians" sheltered the Hizbollah rocket launchers and their crews that bombarded Israel with 4000 rockets. Rocket rooms were added to private homes. Hezbollah paid for the construction & usage. Those "Civilian's" weren't all that innocent. It's really simple, you put your foot in dog doo suffer the consequences. Muslim Sunni & Shia kill each other on a daily basis, with torture thrown in for good measure.

i don't blame them...they need to protect their people and state.

If those so-called "Children" want to play terrorist they and their families must be willing to accept the responsibility, consequences & just punishment. Many armies of the world use children, however, those are generally conscripted. Palestinian adults are training their kids to be the future generation of killers. Their families must be celebrating their martyrdom and passing out candies in celebration. Great Palestinian industries, Parades, flying banners and Shahid funerals. Kill & be killed

It was like a painkiller to make his people loves him and forget about his bad past. Established the health and pension system!! yea well done Franco, like as he paid from his own pocket. He is a dictator who killed dozens and wasn't punished what a justice. He is a hero all the spannish loves him yes? spaniolo lo lo.

Kim, Some day Peace and Justice groups will bring your brave Israeli soldiers to court and charge them with war crimes. They won't be able to hide within their own ranks or among their own people. Many of their futures lie behind bars for their war crimes. Two wrongs don't make a right. Dutch

More immoral and unnecessary killing by the IAF. Why the Israeli Army aren't arresting these individuals connected with suspected terror instead of targeted killing them is out of line with our civil societies. In addition, there is no way they should be targeted killing anyone under the Right to Life Law which Israel is signaturee This is cruel and barbaric and it has caused more unnecessary deaths--such as these two youngsters. Shame on the murderers in the IAF. This is no way a civil society to behaves. Their level of brutality is out of line with our civil societies and should be condemned. Dutch

Pals must know Israel is very serious about its security. In addition to not carrying any weapons of any sort, Palestinians in the Gaza strip should remain at least one mile away from the border with Israel (north, east and south). On the Mediterranean side they are allowed to go on the beach but not in the water – Israel has the right to suspect Palestinians becoming frogmen and sneaking into Israel undetected underwater. IDF told them this several times but they don't get it. They can only blame themselves.

ok, if they warned them they have the right to strike the house it will be bad when they will not warn them. and then the world can say something.

As the saying goes, you have heard bells and dont know where. Franco was a dictator, yes, sir. But he established the health security system, the pensions system, built lots of reservoirs, lots of homes for poor people, gave grants to poor people so they could study, etc. When he died, Spain was the 9th industrial power. He killed people during the war, indeed. If the others hadn?t declared it, Franco wouldn?t have done it. If you read history (which you don?t like, I remember) you wish to have a ruler like him. What a difference with Arafat, huh?

A senior Hamas sent to keep the 72 so-called virgins company. Keep up the good work.

My God that man is so crazy he killed his own people but he built you a huge Cross outside Madrid on the top mountin near Escorial. He was a real good man.

I also don't know what the capital of S A. All I know is South Africa is the most dangerous place to live. Ok it is pity and I'm happy like this because you and your country don't care about me so why should I care too? Joe Moer I know your not a black South African from your name, do the black people of S A loves the other none black there?

What most pals dont understand is that they do have a choice... they do have another option. If they were to lay down their arms, renouce acts of violence towards Isreal, accept Isreals right to exist, and show the least bit of responsability for controling their actions, then I would be on your side sir. And it appears Isreal does not have much control over anything in Gaza. If they did, no one would be dying. You said it perfectly "Every day they are being shot at and killed but they will not surrender either." Why not surrender? Haven't the Pals endured enough?! Do they not see that prosperity lives in Isreal? They could have it to if they only could see past their hate. Isreal does not choose it keep fighting, they have to because if they stop then real havoc would erupt and they would be in Diaspora once again. Isreal will never accept that.

Did they kick your Pal ass out of England?

Click do you know Borat? if not watch his videos, and tell me if you agree, thank you Fool I Like, its nice in the U.S. and A

Cynic, who understands you? Other times you people complain because of the unilateral withdrawal.

What most don't seem to understand is that Palestine is not a sovereign country, the Palestinian Authority is not a real government, it cannot have an army, it does not control its borders, its territory is under occupation etc. etc. so please don't give us that rhetoric about Palestinians being free and independent and that they are just bloodthirsty terrorists out to kill Jews. This is all BS. Palestine is still under occupation (including Gaza), it is fragmented, and is full of walls, checkpoints and gates controlled by the IDF. Its people and economy are held hostage by Israel and its funders. They are not FREE. Every day they are being shot at and killed but they will not surrender either. So if you have any better suggestions, be my guest!!!

You can read it in the article.

Whatever Chanaah ..even if the hezbolla was really hidden among the population (afterall it s a common guerilla technique) what is sad it s to fire missiles and cluster bombs on civilian areas, hundreds of victims were just assassinated at more than 50 km of the border, that is to say out of range of katiouchka rockets..if the price of your security is innocents lives u will never rest, believe me. I am talking about your moral duty whatever are your political opinion you should know the price of human lives, not only yours but all of them, nothing can justify the murdering of innocents neither terrorism nor any other grief. Your fear is blinding you, the hundreds of children killed had history families, smiles, and a simple life, if you can t or don t want to understand that, i wish u could luck as a human being, shall a hundred of israeli kids be killed in a war to make you feel like a human being? i hope not, sincerely i hope it s not the only solution.

What seems to be overlooked is the fundamental differece of an army vs. a people. A people should never have to fight an army. They should support a government that will make an army to get them out of the situation, or, have an army that can give terms of surrender so that their people are not plagued anymore. So Pals elect a gov that is continuing with the normal aggresive behavoir. ITS CAUSE AND EFFECT.

Impressive wording, yet: 1) I question whether Hammas and Islamic Jihad activities are ones related to a national liberation. I would argue that their loyalty is to the Umma of Islam (the Nation of Islam) before any other social or political entity or movement. 2) The reality is: Palestinian Arabs use children actively to transport explosives. Palestinian Arabs use actively teen agers to explode themselves. Palestinian Arabs use babies passively, but with the active involvement of their mothers, to hide explosives. Palestinian Arabs use children to actively scout for military purposes. I can continue. The short of it, we Jews want to live. You see, we value life. So, we shall continue to defend ourselves, our children, our youth, our women and men and the elderly. And those who wish us dead must take our attitude into consideration. We have no interest of running any more. We have paid enough over the centuries, and we have said it to ourselves and to the world, NO MORE.

You may be shocked by "the other" while seeing selected images of Hamas rallies; I dislike them too. This is not the reason to flatten all the social and ideological complexity of Arab and Palestinian society into organic or religious genealogy. Typically when it?s about "Us" we are willing to see the causal complexity and understanding (and I know many insider?s explications that render the picture described above smoother). Even more typically, when it?s about "Them", the events appear to drop uniform clearly interpretable shadows from specific light source. From the one in Givatayim.

"GET LOST" is about an example of the correct rhetoric you preached of to Maral just yesterday? Bravo. Upon settling in Israel from one of ex-Soviet countries I was astonished to discover the red-China-like Israeli school programs and text-books. Ever read Israeli sociological studies on the collective memory and political geography? "Not incited to hatred"? Besides the ethnocentric and religio-centric pedagogical instruction imbued at school there social (new bourgeois vs. kibbutznikim), religious (dosim vs. secular), ethno-social (arsim vs. frikim) and immigrant (sabra vs. olim) oppositions that are close to explode Israeli society itself. Should I mention ?Death to Arabs? in the football fields? Sochnut spreading the anecdotes about Israeli parents bribing the conscript's authorities to be able to send kids to the fighting units. Israelis rejoicing at the death of humans you can witness in forum after practically every IDF strike news. The Israeli national idols are commemorated in the pure Western-brand Israel in full scale while the street names & monuments remind their deeds to the victims still alive. Ever been to "Jerusalem March"?

Killing kids is bad. Placing rocket launchers among civilians is worse (youshould know) and sending kids to retrive rocket launchers after firing putting them in harm's way is pure evil.

Those two people who have died were helping the terrorists. Why were they doing it? Because, if the IDF had known their ages, the Israeli soldiers wouldn?t have hit them. What a gall! And then they criticize Israel for ?killing children?.

Logical people cannot just launch rockets into a soverign state without expecting immediate response. What are children doing nearby rocket Launchers? Either the launchers were purposely placed amongst civilians or else the kids were sent by retrieve it by the launchers themselves. UN child abuse authorities ought to be investigating the situation.

where in the text does it say "collect" the launchers? Apart from the recent addition by haretz which I don't recall seeing earlier!!!! It states quite clearly to "INSPECT" as reported by the GAZA Hospital And that has been in the text ALL THE TIME

Lola didn't fabricate the story as you & your lot do. It states quite clearly in the body of the report that the 2 were "on their way to inspect the rocket launchers in the field" BTW Cape Towns the city right @ the bottom end of Africa. Even as proven by your inane ramblings you cannot read, you should still be able to make it out on a map. Try counting the letters 4 each for CAPE & TOWN. Good Luck. Though I see you also admit that you don't wish to improve your knowledge as you say you don't wanna, that should be Want to know where Cape Town is anyway. Pity that you don't want to IMPROVE your lot, perhaps that's one of the reasons your people Do Not Have a State. Their lack of AMBITION. Look what ISRAELIS managed to do with a little country the size of the Kruger National Park here, a Game Park or if it's easier for your little brain, same size as Wales, the country in Gratebrittin, where you used to live that doesn't have it's imdependence yet doesn't send suicide bummers to england

the whole world should be watching....when will the madness stop...oh yeah both side only can exist if there is conflict ...peace would force concessions and a possible future for their children.

Why pick them up? Leave the launchers and bring the rockest to them - less weight to carry. These kids, I think, were just curious boys out riding their bikes.

Of course they don't, they send them to the army! The killing will be more official this way.

"The IDF said a group of soldiers identified hitting two Palestinians who had come to the area to collect the launchers used to fire rockets over the past week. In recent months, Palestinian militant groups have sent children to collect the rocket launchers, believing they would be less likely to be attacked." The IDF butcher two more children, out riding their bicycles. Israel's Official Liar gets to work. "Tell them that the Palestinians use children to collect their rocket launchers. OK - we've got no proof, but what do we care? It'll do." Which book does a liar get written into?

"As a long observer of the Arab Israeli conflict and a student of the history of this part of the world I have [...]" Nice to see a colleague - you are talking to an observer and a student of the history of "that part of the world". As such you may know of the dangers of the extrapolation of particular cases in concocting the general conclusions. As soon as you don't, you begin to have "no reason to assume other than..." from this ambivalent article. As for the human shield, you conveniently melt into one the conscious presence of civilians in concrete battlefield with the case where militant's presence among civilians unaware of them (targeting a driving van in the middle of a village). Further on you won't find a national narrative of liberation without special chapter of women and underage's courageous contribution. Neither in the West and Israel. The decried suicide bombers dot Western military histories (WWII) where the secularized ideologies substitute religious afterlife.

Israelis kids are no taught neither incited to hatred , and certainly do not take part in building terrot tunnels and bunkers Israelis parents don't send their kids to rejoyce at the death of humans , Israelis parents don't send their kids to participate in persona or vanity idolatry rallys Israelis parents don't let their kids wear suicidal terrorits costumes during any other parades or halloween or festivities...... ect...ect... Take your double standard rethoric somewhere else

Without terrorism, "Israel" would not exist. Be mindful of your biased double standards.

What you said is totally nonesence. Innocents 2 brothers killed like that 14 year old girl got killed 2 days ago. People who send rockect don't need a bicycles to carry rockets.

Are you jealous dear, yes maybe we are related. S A isn't good now as it used to be? I don't know where Cape Town is and I don't wana know it.

Please, do keep in mind that the Arab and Muslim world in general, and the Palestinian Arabs in particular have a long, very long and very sad history of using children of all, yes, all ages, including babies, to shield their fighters and/or to assist them (terrorists, guerillas, etc.). As a long observer of the Arab Israeli conflict and a student of the history of this part of the world, I have no reason to assume other than the use of children, in this case included, in the terrorising of civilians in the southern towns and villages of Israel through the use of rockets.

Dear Jean Marie, Actually, many Israelis are indeed arrogant in their private lives, and often in the public life as well. I do not like it. Many of us do not like it. But I think, while the reasons for the evolvement of this behavior are related to the subject at hand, the two are not directly conected. If I understand you correctly, I would suggest to young French Jews to continue to come to Israel, learn about life of the Israeli Jewish community, and learn to improve the relationships between the Jewish communities in France and Israel. Others, may simply want to settle in this historic Jewish homeland of ours and contribute directly to the evolving culture that is taking place here in a very dynamic way.

"Lasse , your logic is sharp" Now this only attests your standards of logics. Do you know what do kids in Haifa after school? They run to collect the Kassam's shrapnel. You know what was the biggest concern of authorities during the Haifa shelling? That curious adults and kids would crowd the newest crater in the city. Haifa is a paradise comparing to run down Israeli cities like Ofakim or Dimona, where outskirt kids would gladly run to set apart an unexploded nuke in the fields just as they do with industrial waste like elsewhere in the world, Gaza included. Surely it's comfy to stick both terrorists and kids into the category of the latter. If poor outlandish Lasse is unfamiliar with what Gaza has been for the last decades under the occupation of our compatriots, you may rather explain him why do those Palestinian "careless adults" don't work today in shining high-tech sky-scrapers. You talk about "vicious weapons dealers" while Israeli underworld settle accounts in daylight??

"Palestinian hospital officials said the two boys, Anwar Hamdan, 16, and Hamam Hamdan, 14, were riding bicycles to inspect the rocket launchers in the field when they were killed." Again,, where are their parents??? why is a 16 and 14 y/o wondering around what is essentially an active war zone in northern gaza?? live with terrorists die with terrorists. those in northern gaza must learn to not allow terrorists to fire rockets from their areas if they want to live and have a house to live in. these kids were more than likely sent to pick up the launchers for hamas. yet these same people are marching in support of hamas. if they dont take a stand against terroists who will?

Exactly right, chaver! The trouble is with them, they simply do not care about what the consequences will be. Their mentality is unreal in any normal people's heads. They brainwash the kids to Blow Temselves up in order to cause suffering. This is a new phenomenon for them. Years ago they used to assassinate individuals, not they have graduated to this, next when the noodlehead from Iran, (G-d forbid gets his plaything), the whold world will be a target. Where will we all be next year at this time? I wonder.

Agree for Israel jews.In diaspora, sure, jews cannot understand exactly why? They are very far from the life in Israel,every day even they come in Israel for "holly" days.Is certainly for that reason that the people says " israelis" are arrogant people without heart" "jews without heart".Is it possible?

Caused enough trouble in Londonstan July 05 so now you've gone orf DownUnda have you. Whose hosting you Marilyn or perhaps johnboy? BTW I see you have the same surname, are you & john related perchance?

Luister Broer....read the article next time before clicking away & save us the trouble of translating for you......."The 2 were on their way to INSPECT the rocket launchers in the field" & that's as reported by the Gaza Hospital. Now what part didn't you understand. You really should move to my town, the name suits you so well they would probably elect you Mayor,,,,,"staadshof"

Palestinian hospital officials said the two boys, Anwar Hamdan, 16, and Hamam Hamdan, 14, were riding bicycles to inspect the rocket launchers in the field when they were killed Now why would the palestinian hospital officials say that? To bring anger from their Hamas brothers? When children are educated in the hate of the jews and israelis, they become killing machines. Great education indeed, all orchestrated by the imams, from the Iran medieval ayatollas down to all mosques. In France, when children act like adults they are emancipated in court and become de facto adults and are held accountable as such. It is obvious that these children are used to further the cause of Hamas. No one cares about their safety or they would not be asked to do this and would be protected like everywhere else in the world by their parents. Please read the Hamas march article too!

Lasse please tell me you were a volunteer on Kibbutz Yizrael in 74 & you remember Anne & I

there are no good or bad reasons for killing kids..and some people still think the jewish people is a reference in moral and human rights, shame on u.

children and your elderly. Would any other society that has any self respect react any differently? If not, do not expect us, the Jews of Israel to act differently. We have had it with constantly runing from those who wish us dead. We have done it for centuries. We intend to stand tall and protect our lives, the lives of our families, and the lives of the people of Israel.

one to the left and one to the right Enjoy talkbacks fun

Israel spill innocent Palestinian blood every day, and call them militants. It is not 'militant' to fight against your oppressor, Its the noble thing to do.Unfortunately, my country supports this crime against humanity.

I have doubt that the IDF believed that these two "terrorist" were on there way to fire rockets at Israel. Israel contrary to their critics do not intentionally harm innocent people. What has occured is that the IDF has been harming civilians in error and this is unacceptable. Israel cannot lower itself to it's enemies standards. Israel must fight back but do it's utmost not to harm innocents. My question is: When will "Palestinians" begin to build their supposed nation? It seems they plan to remain victims of the illusion that they one day will ethnically cleanse Israel of Jews. Terror does not a nation make.

It's have been a long time since the last dutch visit. Remember your cowards brothers in arms, guilty for the killing of thousands of muslims in Sczebrenica, for not protecting them from the serbe militias. You should be proud of your country, don't you ?

I am in Mosman, North Sydney, Australia not London. Its a wronge typing.

Why the Dansih still crying? is it because of the boycot? yea yes. When will they start boycotting your country?

You will die of heart attack Jay Jay.

no justice in this struggle, israel is feeling its too powerful to do every thing, hope ppl in this area srart to think and see in another way

The vague reporting of the IAF press office will only increase the suspicions of the world against the Israeli violent treatment of Palestinians. Why are these reports so vague? Why are they so careful to avoid writing hard facts? Might these facts prove that the IAF has no clue and no intention to find out whether the killed Palestinians are indeed terrorists or whether they were just suspicious looking, innocent men? `eyes upon you` is correct: simply looking suspicious isn`t enough to kill people. the IAF should give much more hard facts if they want the world to be convinced about the justice of their actions. If not, they should stop the killings. But then, what Israeli cares for justice for Palestinians or for the IAF? not many, I`m afraid. The IAF is considered holy, the Palestinians are considered liars and terrorists. Any attempt to find greyscales in this blabk-and-white thinking is considered treason (or anti-semitism)

That building tunnels and bunkers require a lot of pals cheap men power. Sadly for some kids pals , they do it after school to practice what they have been engrained to think. They also come most likely from contactors families , relatives , friends , neighbors ect...consequently sometimes the tragic and regretable death of under ages as colateral damage , and sometimes out of simple infantile curiosity from the result of back to back air strike. As the world witenessed this week with the infortunate news of a 14 years old pal girl. Careless adults , vicious weapons dealers or tunnels and bunkers inconscious contractors , sub- contractor ect... focus on money only , profits . Try to compare that to the afganistan opium fields owners , refusing to convert their field to other crops , same goes to the lebanon bekaa valley or central america triangle coke.

how come gaza is not razed while this week poll from the jerusalem university and its counter part in ramlah conducted a survey from 1200 pals shows a rise from 67% to 74% suppoting pals terror style hezbollah against Israel. while it's easy for you to express your indignation for proof and trial , remember that the IAF wouldn't have conducted such justified strike without reliable info of intell services after approval of trial in absentia of the suspects. hence the IDF judical system proof of guilt, beyond any doubt for every IAF strike or IDF ground open or covered operation wich in this case the rule of engagement takes over even if the guilty(s) is tageted for kill , as we learned from the arrest during a road block operation of a top ranked terrorist hunted down during 6 years while he was part of PA Abbas force 17. he was arrested and not killed since he didn't shoot first and therefore surrendered himself with 3 others complices. as i said rule of engagement.

Why the Gazans still fire rockets into Israel? Bacause of occupation? No no no. When will they start working for Gaza???

The IDF terror organisation says that the 2 murder victims were "suspected" of firing rockets. So they had no proof, Then again a terrorist organisation like the IDF is only looking for excuses to murder people. NOthing they say can be believed after their murderously evil campaign against Lebanese civilians and children

Ask your terrists friends to complain to the UN. may be they will get some money to buy some more rockets.

If everyone on this earth was to kill anyone that they *suspected* of doing them wrong we wouldnt have a soul left on this earth. What happened to PROOF, what happened to a judical system to prove guilt? Logical people cannot go around killing everyone they *suspect* and give NO details of the matter. Has Israel gone totally mad?