Palestinian UN draft / The more extreme, the better for Israel

"There is nothing extreme in blasting to smithereens 1400 people, 15,000 buildings, and bulldozing the agricultural infrastructure, silos and cement works, of one of the poorest patches of land on earth, because 10,000 lampposts, made into primitive missiles, hitting the Negev desert over several years " Yes, Peter what the Israeli Army did to Pale- stinian people and their civil society was be-yond extreme it was the work of vandals & thugs Civilized people don't do such things to others. They follow the rule of law or show some sense of common decency. The IDF showed neither. Animals! Dutch

The PA could be the real winner in the report going forward and a delay in uniting with Hamas could give it more leverage but they would need to replace Abbas.

...Peter wrote: "...that indicts both Israel and a part of the Palestinian leadership, which Israel defines as `extremist`" "part of" means Hamas dear. The Goldstone Report did not indict Fatah, although the report does indeed address the suppression meted out by Abu Mazen's government during Israel's war on the Gaza Ghetto. And no, the gullible world defines Hamas solely as terrorists, the informed world understands that they were firmly rooted in humanitarian aims back when Israel nurtured the group as a counter-wight to Arafat. They became radicalized as Israel kept on never making peace, always with the incursions and assassinations, the theft of resources, the insult to Palestinian dignity. And they stood up.

After all, Haaretz has a copy of that draft. Having read it, I can see one part that "the west" will have real problems accepting. It's this: "Recognizing that the Israeli siege imposed on the occupied Gaza Strip" ..... "constitutes collective punishment of Palestinian civilians and leads to disasterous humanitarian and environmental consequences," The nations of "the West" will (rightly) insist that this pre-judges Israel, who denies that this seige is in any way a collective punishment. Abbas would have been better sticking to: "Recognizing that the Israeli siege imposed on the occupied Gaza Strip" ..... "leads to disasterous humanitarian and environmental consequences," That's still a harsh statement, yes, but one that is also undeniably true.

Only someone with a very guilty conscience could grasp for such distorted logic.

and its stance, because its just a minority of states that does so, and only because it does not cost them anything. When the "West" is going to be confronted with costs treatening their own population's wealth or interests, remember Schoenau!

it is unlikely that israhel will get off on all 3 counts....HRC can approve whatever it agrees with and ignore the rest....it is not take all or nothing

And the funniest thing about it all is these islamic gangsters have absolutely no clue what jack asses they are showing themselves to be to the rest of the world. Hahahahahaha

1. Why the distinction, one one side you state Israel as a whole whilst on the other side you limit the indictment to "part of the Palestinian leadership" - Hamas, not the PNA. I thought that was clear 2. Apart from Israel, the majority of the world defines Hamas as terrorists. - Untrue. In any case they are the elected representatives of the Gazan people, unlike the Chinese communist party, or the Saudi aristocracy, for example, with whom the West deals, though the former engages in terrorism in Tibet, and the latter finance Wahhabite ideology in madrasas in Pakistan. 3.You have a interesting way of expressing hatred for Israel. Anyone who cannot distinguish the transient policies, and politicians of a state and their decisions, from the nation, which is a people of great, demographic and democratic diversity, shouldn't engage me, or these forums

"Palestinian UN draft / The more extreme, the better for Israel" - Haaretz This is quite true. Judge Goldstone was very careful to not 'over charge.' Indeed he went to great extremes to question every finding of fact and qualify every assertion. If, as it now seems, the Palestinians are going to conflate the Report with the current problems surrounding the Temple Mount, and to hype both, then they will defeat themselves.

I agree that the Palestinians are only harming themselves. They are just proving that it would be impossible for Israel to live next door in peace. We treat our Arab citizens better than they treat each other.

You write: " If they endorse a document, written by a distinguished Jewish jurist, that indicts both Israel and a part of the Palestinian leadership, which Israel defines as `extremist`" 1. Why the distinction, one one side you state Israel as a whole whilst on the other side you limit the indictment to "part of the Palestinian leadership" 2. Apart from Israel, the majority of the world defines Hamas as terrorists. You have a interesting way of expressing hatred for Israel

Peter So that is what they did with all those lampposts I guess we have figured out why there are no lights in Gaza Care to tell everybody about the Giant Mole Tunnels we found in the agricultural fields of Gaza?

get a life!

Peter So that is what they did with all those lampposts I guess we have figured out why there are no lights in Gaza Care to tell everybody about the Giant Mole Tunnels we found in the agricultural fields of Gaza?

Peter So that is what they did with all those lampposts I guess we have figured out why there are no lights in Gaza Care to tell everybody about the Giant Mole Tunnels we found in the agricultural fields of Gaza?

... I fail to see where it's 'extreme' at all?

The image of israel and zionism in today's world is getting worse and worse everyday. Apartheid policies are increasing against the native palestinians and the world continues to do nothing. Israel can save itself by withdrawing from the west bank and east jerusalem.

Peter haaretz published an article last Friday I beleive on how much money was lost in the tunnel business. Hamas estimated 500 million EUROs. Lost in the sand and you call this the poorest patch on earth? I'd say poor political prowes, poorly educated, poorly reared and mannered but not the poorest monetarily. As well rockets flew before the siege get your timeline straight laslty jus because rockets don't cause damage is no excuse and undermine the infrastructure israel has built for it's citizens maybe you've been studying gaza for too long but the primary purpose of governmnet is to protect it's citizens no endanger them

... rarely killed is only a function of poor marksmanship, not intent. Retaliation can be properly mounted against intent and potential. Remember that attempted murder is a crime also. You don't have to actually have a school bus full of kids hit in order to take action. The world understands this, even if the EU Fringe Left doesn't.

you are 100% right. But as long is us citenzen we don't change the goverment of our country for the right of all, nothing will be done. I was hoping Obama was different I vote for him, but so far when it come to Israel I am discusted!! I am italian by birth and american by choice.

Israel. Then they complain theirs is the "poorest patch of land on Earth ,with no infrastructure" Should Israel supply Gaza with new lampposts ,eh Peter?

"Netanyahu can celebrate the slap on the face the new Nobel Peace Prize laureate will receive, since the world knows that Barack Obama persistently plead with Abbas to pull the proposal in order to clear the way for a permanent peace agreement". Not really since Netanyahu approved the building of new illegal settlement on occupied land,continuing the demolition of Arab houses in Jerusalem which contradict International Laws in this case any civilized lwas.

If Palestinians complain of territory expropriated, they are 'extremists'. If they endorse a document, written by a distinguished Jewish jurist, that indicts both Israel and a part of the Palestinian leadership, which Israel defines as 'extremist', then they too are extremist. If they insist on their dignity (human rights') before an international body, they are 'extremists'. There is nothing extreme in blasting to smithereens 1400 people, 15,000 buildings, and bulldozing the agricultural infrastructure, silos and cement works, of one of the poorest patches of land on earth, because 10,000 lampposts, made into primitive missiles, hitting the Negev desert over several years in reply to economic strangulation by israel, managed to kill several Israelis.