Palestinian activists urge Hamas to probe own Gaza war crimes

The fear of Hamas, by Palestinian people, appeared undoubtedly to be far more than the fear of Israel. Until Hamas starts looking after its people, spending at least some of its money on building up a society that doesn?t live in fear of its main political party, and stops deliberately fomenting hatred against Israel, nothing will change, and there will again be further destitution for the Palestinians. It appears that Hamas cares nothing for its people, and misguided or deliberately wicked support for its aims simply encourages further bloodshed and destruction.

"Now you think that it would be okay to investigate the war crimes that you urged Hamas to commit" I urged Hamas to commit war crimes?? You greatly overestimate my influence...how silly!!

...this is a forum which discusses Israel and the Palestinians. Not included are the Americans, the Iraqis, the Pakistanis and everyone else's kitchen sink. I am sticking to the topic, please do the same. Thank you.

"Now you think that it would be okay to investigate the war crimes that you urged Hamas to commit" I urged Hamas to commit war crimes? What power you must think I have!

should be easy....go ahead.

you are one of the greatest on this forum! keep up the good work love from Tel Aviv !

"Both Israel and Hamas could be guilty of war crimes...investigate both sides!" Before the Gaza operation, you continually egged on Hamas and encouraged them to lobby their maleficent missiles into Israel. Then you cried the loudest when Israel took action to defend itself. Now you think that it would be okay to investigate the war crimes that you urged Hamas to commit.

It is a fact that you'r double standard,and never want to talk about your country's attrocities,and because of that you do not have the right to crticize anyone not even the Arabs. you never make the body count of the victims of suicide bombers and talk of Hamas killing only 7 Israelis.

"Over 100.000 civilians death in Iraq,and about 50.000 in Afghanistan.How any American civilians died?investigate your country`s war crimes that yield 150.000 bodies!" Stick to the subject of the debate instead of posting off-topic to deflect us from Israel's body count in Gaza!

Both Israel and Hamas could be guilty of war crimes...investigate both sides!

why has hamas come into existence in the 1980"s? why do the palestinians commit resistance since the 19th century against zionism? both sides as well the zionists as hamas has committed war crimes and crimes against humanity. down with zionism and islam(ism). both ideologies are bad and evil, are intollerant and are dictatorships. when will respect for human rights and peace, security, stability and justice come to your region? otherwise it will become an endless and eternal war in which both sides will loose!

The US have accused the Iraqis for using human shield,they did accused the Taliban too. The Lebanese have accused each other for doing so in the civil war.Fatah said the same about Hamas,and Hamas accused Fatah for doing so.Actually every one that have fought the Muslim including Muslim have said the same,it is an war fare tactic for Muslims since the day of the prophet Muhammad.I guess you believed them all,but Israel is lying.LOL.

Accepted by all the world. The 67 borders are accepted by the whole world. However, despite that, all Israel borders are due to change pending on negotiation. Even Nataniahu knows that. Negotiations with the palestinians will probably bring certain changes in borders the westen broder. Israel will remain with some corp of settlements and will probably (inshala) relinquish the areas of the triangle which include arab cities as Umen El Fahen. If negotiations will not be hold, then the "status quo" prevails. Israel will keep settling in land that never belonged to any other country. Palestine never existed and will not exist without negotiations. In sum there is no need to legally annex in order to settle and establish new borders.

what about hamas, or shall we say, the palestinians, using their own women and children as human shields, placing kids on roofs of homes with weapons hidden inside, what about using mosques, UN buildings and hospitals to hide, store, and fire weapons from??? what about indoctrinating kids to kill other human beings solely based on race? what about booby trapping homes of civilians to lure in israeli soldiers? these are "civilians" homes right? are any of these human rights violation to be investigated? maybe they can include blowing up greenhouses the israelis left them, purposefully letting people go hungry so that they can keep them angry..is that a human rights abuse? I cannot wait to see hamas's "investigation"...LOL....

"We`re going the right way!!! Israel is more in trouble than ever." It's obvious that you're more interested in perpetuating your hate than in finding reasonable solutions.

A first step in the right direction! "Impressed that there are Arabs who strugle for Universal Human rights respect (not only for one sided rights of Palastinians). Impresed they are Israely and Palestinians Arabs. It is when those guys grow to be politicaly strong enough that peace will be possible. Why do we hear little about them? Bravo in any case."

What is there to investigate? Arabs openly state their goal is to destroy Israel, sometimes alternatively spelled as "End the occupation of Arab lands - ALL ARAB LANDS". They also openly state that they target Israeli civilians and try to kill as many Israeli civilians as they can. What is there to investigate?

could someone please explain to me exactly just HOW Hamas used people as "human shields " ? I saw the Israeli's forcing people to walk in front of them , but just can'figure out how Hamas did it .

How do you know that Hamas is not probing anything? Are you privy to information that the rest of us have no access to?

The reality is that in any military confrontation (although Gaza was a one sided confrontaion - still....) disgraceful acts will be committed. While it is good that both sides ionvestigate their actions, the nature and thoroughness of those investigations are important. No white wash, please!

Fish, people like you are an affront to humanity. So, shut up and go back to school, ignorant!

"why not blame Israel for building settlements too close to the boarder? those rockets can only go a few kilometres at best, your post is nonsensical." --- For your information Shderot and Ashkelon are NOT settlements, they are part of Israel proper. This is like saying that Plattsburg is an American settlement because it's close to the Canadian border. Please get your facts straight before making senseless comments.

The historic Gaza Freedom March on December 31, 2009 brings over 1,300 people from more than 43 countries to join the Palestinians of Gaza in a non-violent, mass march to the Israeli border. Together, we put forth a global call to Israel: LIFT THE SIEGE OF GAZA! Check out our videos at: http://www.vimeo.com/culturesofresist

should be put in jail

what about hamas, or shall we say, the palestinians, using their own women and children as human shields, placing kids on roofs of homes with weapons hidden inside, what about using mosques, UN buildings and hospitals to hide, store, and fire weapons from??? what about indoctrinating kids to kill other human beings solely based on race? what about booby trapping homes of civilians to lure in israeli soldiers? these are "civilians" homes right? are any of these human rights violation to be investigated? maybe they can include blowing up greenhouses the israelis left them, purposefully letting people go hungry so that they can keep them angry..is that a human rights abuse? I cannot wait to see hamas's "investigation"...LOL....

Have you ever heard about the armistice lines of 1949? Be`er Sheba, Ashkelon, Ashdod and Sderot all lie in the israeli side, and yes, they are recognized my international law, so it is part of Israel, not any occupied territory. The only land that can be pointed as "occupaied" is the west bank, not even gaza is under occupation, as the israeli forces arent inside its territory.

No rockets can reach the US or the UK from Iraq or Afghanistan,yet they bombed them to kingdom come destroying both countries,and killing civilians on a daily basis.What is your and those countries excuses?.your post is nonsensical.

To use your logic.When Israel bomb Gaza they bomb Egyptian territory?,and IDF action in the WB are on Jordenian territory?.What nonsens. BTW,Jordan is occupied Palestinian territory.

i checked your link and it says what i said

gaza is illegaly occupied by hamas !

Of course Hamas should launch a public and open inquiry. They should also jail those deliberately targeting Israeli civilians. There will be very few who would be left out of jail in that case.

" sderot is part of gaza legally..it was illegally anexed " http://tinyurl.com/y8ewves/myths-mis-conceptions-propaganda/#northern-border http://tinyurl.com/y8ewves/myths-mis-conceptions-propaganda/#southern-border

The IDF will probe themselvs,and so will Hamas. The PLO will do that too,and so the Basijs. Nato forces will probe thier actions in Iraq Afghanistan,and Hizbollah will do so too, AND THEN WE ALL LIVE HAPPILY EVER AFTER.

state as it has never been able to declare Sovereignty. http://wp.me/pDB7k-jA "The number of states who recognize Israel is about equal to the number of states the recognize Palestine." There are many forms of recognition for states. De jure (in law). De facto (facts on the ground). De jure recognition of a de facto government. Diplomatic recognition etc etc. One would have to look at each in detail. Recognition of Sovereignty is somewhat different. A Sovereign State is recognized de jure, by virtue of it's declared boundaries. It's government might be recognized de facto if it is a provisional Government, usually immediately after a Declaration of Sovereignty until such time as a Government is elected. (e.g., Israel http://wp.me/pDB7k-lA )

Bravo to the organizations promoting a Hamas enquiry. Bravo to the former Supreme Court President Aharon Barak. Both enquiries should take place to finally clear the air. It is obviously necessary to investigate the political process on both sides - not just the battle field events. Only credible (i.e., judicial), open (i.e., not behind closed doors) enquiries will do. Israel is well able to do this with credible retired and/or international jurists. If Hamas do not have the internal capacity, they will hopefully appoint an international judicial panel. Recognizing a IDF enquiry makes as much sense as suggesting that the rocket brigades should investigate their own activities. The truth must come out.

The allied side in WWII lost more than the Germans. Russia alone, lost more than 20 million and that's probably understated. Arab statistics are always suspect and they think nothing of putting their civilian population in harms way.

Abu Graib and gitmo,rapes and looting,torture and kidnapping.All of that showed the world what kind of blood thirsty lunatics run the USA. Shame on USA.Shame on the world.

What about the hammas using human shields and firing from kindergartens amd using hospitals and Un depots to fire from, knowing that israeli satelites would pickup and automatically relay firing sources to Israeli artillery?

Over 100.000 civilians death in Iraq,and about 50.000 in Afghanistan.How any American civilians died?investigate your country's war crimes that yield 150.000 bodies!

The Palestinians are fighting a long and continuing battle for their lives and their homes. There is no action they can take which is unjustified. Jews felt the same way when their terror groups assassinated, lynched and bombed their way to victory in 1948.

it was illegally anexed so the people there are illegal squattersa and the gazans were just using it for rocket testing and the squatters were warned on numerous occasions

the gazans have been starved since the zionist disengaged while keeping control of boarder and sky...so the gazans shot a few bottle rockets to show their displeasure, and i am sure the zionist would prefer they starve in silence...not likely

You've heard of "wolves guarding flock"? That would be analogy of Hamas (a goonda organisation from get-go) probing own war-crimes--you can see the Hamodur Rehman report for what bakvas would be printed as result of such a probe!

The Goldstone Report identified examples of war crimes by both Hamas and Fatah. Those organizations should investigate those incidents, or the cases should be referred to the international courts for prosecution.

I am not justifying anything. I am pointing out to Javier that his numbers have to be examined in the context of what happened on the ground of a war. For every action there is a reaction. This story is about Hamas probing "their"war crimes. A piece of that investigation would have to show cause and effect. You cannot shoot from amongst civilians and not realize you will be fired back upon.

icial. the the upside down man from oz will show that any allegation made in the report has been heard and the witness[es] x examined in an impartial court as to the veracity of that allegation ! that further the report asks each party to examine the evidence represented and without benefit of witnesses jointly examined !!

It is very clever of these Palestinian terrorist support groups to disguise themselves as human rights watchdogs. It is even cleverer of them to demand that Hamas investigate some of its own war crimes while ignoring its use of human shields. Most of the alleged incidents that the Goldstone Report purports to base its conclusions on resulted from the use of Arab civilians as human shields by Hamas to protect its terrorist forces from the Israeli self-defence operation. Not only was this use of Arab civilians as human shields for the terrorists a war crime in its own right it also enabled Hamas to derive a propaganda benefit from the war crimes it committed against Israeli civilians, making it a double war crime. These fake human rights groups' main aim is to avoid an investigation of this so as to preserve the option for Hamas of using the same war criminal strategy in the future.

The Palestinians are fighting a long and continuing battle for their lives and their homes. There is no action they can take which is unjustified. Jews felt the same way when their terror groups assassinated, lynched and bombed their way to victory in 1948.

"the idea that totalitarian, terrorist hamas would probe its own war crimes is absolutely ridiculous. a group that murders its opponents, represses its own people, denies people`s freedom of speech and assembly, denies press freedom, cannot be counted on to investigate itself." - scribit CJK And what's your excuse for Israel's failure to investigate? Bravo those human rights organizations. The two based in Israel proper should have sent one to Bibi too.

The number of states who recognize Israel is about equal to the number of states the recognize Palestine. Check "Palestine Recognition Map" and "Recognition of Israel" on Wikipedia.

If using number of casualties for proving the justice-the allies during WW2 obviously were criminals: they lost far fewer than Germarns. Stop manipulationg with numbers, look into intentions. Hamas started the war by targeing civilians from Israeli side. Period.

".. the goldstone report is not worth the paper its printed on ;even its author admits it !!" Go ahead.....quote verbatim...

It is fascinating to see the analogies between Israel and Hamas. In both cases, I suppose there is some slight possibility of investigating the low-level brutalities, the civilians killed casually. But neither organisation has the slightest intention of investigating the major charge in the Goldstone report: that their whole top-level strategy is criminal. Both sides deliberately kill and terrorise civilians for political ends. And they have no intention of challenging or changing that policy, although they know it's a crime. Wake up, Israel, and see what company you're in!

International Community of states, over riding the Arab States objections. " the Palestinians violently rejected the plan" The Palestinians didn't have a say. " and invaded the newborn Israel" What areas of the newly declared Sovereign boundaries did they invade? http://wp.me/pDB7k-ki "The closest we have to an internationally recognised border is the cease-fire line of 1949" Oh? Then why did Israel beg for these territories to be recognized as Israeli? http://wp.me/pDB7k-l5 // ?..the state of Israel has been proclaimed as an independent republic within frontiers approved by the General Assembly of the United Nations in its Resolution of November 29, 1947, and that a provisional government has been charged to assume the rights and duties of government for preserving law and order within the boundaries of Israel// http://wp.me/pDB7k-gm

if you were you would know the goldstone report is not worth the paper its printed on ;even its author admits it !! you appear not to know icc jurisdiction either ??

This is very very good news and I hope Hamas will do it. In fact strategically thinking Hamas might find it to it's advantage, as in any case it can be proven that Hamas knew their rockets were not going to kill more than a few civilians (3). It can however be proven that Israel knew it's weapons were going to kill much more civilians than that (1100+). This is excellent, as a Palestinian abroad I really hope and urge Hamas to follow this up. We're going the right way!!! Israel is more in trouble than ever.

Impressed that there are Arabs who strugle for Universal Human rights respect (not only for one sided rights of Palastinians). Impresed they are Israely and Palestinians Arabs. It is when those guys grow to be politicaly strong enough that peace will be possible. Why do we hear little about them? Bravo in any case.

Israel was able to protect quite well the people on Israel controled territory (Jews and Arabs) People on the Hamas controlled territory were in many cases impossible to protect from being used by Hamas as human shields or from being corrupted into becoming terrorists. That is why you have 7 versus 1400.

and yet ICC and Israel high court advisory opinions ruled against the security wall and call our presence belligerant . Both courts leaned on UNGA resolutions as costumary Int'l law . and yet UNGA has no power to legislate Int'l Law . which proves that both courts based their advisory opinion called rulings on a mixture of personal and collective prejudice and popular opinion that violate U.N. Charter and Law treaties . When UNGA adopt resolutions with wording such as fisrt occupied , and than arab and later as palestinian land , dhimmedias pick up such wording and hammer them to the masses wich think they are not Israel land which is weird given the huge amount of archeology connected to historical jewish presence in the land . Iraq erases hebrew letters from ezekiel tomb next to Baghdad , built a mosque on the shrine and Jordan and Iraq demand jewish writings from Israel under the claim that they're part of moslem heritage . Let see London museums handing to Egypt pharaoh era archeology findings .Be not surprise if moslems say these are gifts to her majesty .

Palestinians should look into the allegations and try to work and persecute war criminals. Nevertheless, the same way that we can't compare a small event such as fo example the massacre of Sabra and Chatila to the Holocaust, the extent of the alleged war crimes committed by the Israeli armi should not be put on the same scale to that alleged crimes committed by Palestinian militants. One shouldn't equate the massacre of around 1100 Palestinian civilians to that of three Israeli civilians, although every human life is special.

are you justifying the killing of 1300 Palestinians, bombing them, and destroying their homes on the fact that Hamas hid amongst them? why not blame Israel for building settlements too close to the boarder? those rockets can only go a few kilometres at best, your post is nonsensical.

israel is not a state party. there is no palestinian state. there is no palestinian state party. icc prosecutor cannot violate treaty law without destroying the treaty, not to mention his own reputation.

do you feel islam taking over london ? i ask so cause i see and read on tv and web the posters saying islam will dominate . do you think islam took over UNGA ?

Stephen, UN resolution 181 does not describe the internationally accepted borders of Palestine because the Palestinians violently rejected the plan and invaded the newborn Israel in what turned out as a failed landgrab attempt. By no international standards does this kind of action get rewarded. The closest we have to an internationally recognised border is the cease-fire line of 1949, the Green Line, and Ashqelon is very much on Israel's side of it.

Civilian population? Southern Israel? I think not. A quick look at UNGA Resolution 181 - the partition plan against which Israel declared its 'independence' and the US quickly recognised as the State of Israel clearly show Be'er Sheba, Ashkelon, Ashdod and Sderot all lie in the Arab partition. These are the only 'borders' in force and internationally recognised. So, until Israel makes peace Hamas (and Fatah) have fired their home-made rockets, not into Southern Israel, but occupied Palestinian territory.

Truth comes before reconciliation.

I mean let's be honest, shooting rockets at civilian neighborhoods is a no no. The sad part is, you probably have people in those Israeli civilian areas that DO NOT support the occupation and you shoot indiscriminate rocket fire. What's good for the goose is good for the geese. Israel is guiltier than dirt of the mass casualties it caused in the civilian life of Gaza, however Hamas is guilty for the 3 Israeli civilian lives lost during this confict and Fatah is guilty of abusing pro Hamas rights in the West Bank. Fair is fair now.

#5 you ignore the fact that many of the Palestinians kelled were because Hamas and co used civilians- woman and children- as human shields - but I guess that is OK providing that it is Israel that is the target by those who think like you. Eight years of rocketting of their Israel doesn't matter either

"Go ahead and probe, but you may be pushed from a building roof" you are, of course, referring to the Fatah members pushing people off roofs, with videos of the incidents posted on the WWW, right, yes, that was members of Fatah not Hamas doing the pushing.

... professionalism to tackle the crux of the problems in Gaza and that's the incendiary modus operandi of its militant leaders, the infamous Hamas Charter of Death & Destruction of Israel, that guides each terrorist's step.

It found that its terrorist were following the Hamas charter and ideology to the letter, ie murdering Israeli civlians. They were commended for their actions. Case closed.

The PA and League of Arab States filed their own complaints and reports with the ICC Prosecutor. Many of the contracting parties to the Rome Statute and its Assembly of States have exercised their sovereign discretion to recognize Palestine as a State. It is very doubtful that the treaty organization will open Pandora's box by calling the decisions of its own members into question. In any event, the ICC is still conducting its own preliminary analysis. The US cannot veto that process. If the ICC needs a copy of the Goldstone report for its own investigation, it can always download a copy like everyone else.

this must be a sly joke. the idea that totalitarian, terrorist hamas would probe its own war crimes is absolutely ridiculous. a group that murders its opponents, represses its own people, denies people's freedom of speech and assembly, denies press freedom, cannot be counted on to investigate itself.

Who are the clowns that come with those crazy ideas?

Let me see if I get it. Palestinians are going to investigate Hamas murderer(as if you can obtain reliable information in Gaza)? Yeah right. They know that Hamas murderers will turn them into victims.

The Goldstone report covered not only Israeli violations, but violations by Hamas in Gaza and Fatah in the West Bank. Anyone interested in the TRUTH must want ALL violations be examined. Israel, the side with FAR MORE FIREPOWER is charged with far more violations, but anyone who has read the Goldstone Report knows that it was just as scathing of Palestinian violations as Israel. No one deserves a free ride. ALL deserve to be held accountable for their crimes against humanity. IF ANYONE gets away without question then the whole effort has failed.

7 Israelis died as a direct result of the Palestinian's shooting. The number of Palestinians killed by Hamas(elected regime)is not mentioned. Could be one could be a hundred and one. Another thing not mentioned is the stupidity or cunning of Hamas firing from amidst the civilian population...therefore bringing in Israeli retaliatory firing. The number of Palestinians killed is high but how many deaths need to be put squarely on the shoulders of Hamas ? Your post is way too simple and nonsensical.

You say 7 dead vs. 1300 dead therefore Hamas at most 7 dead as a war crime. What you don't include is the dead on the Palestinian side caused by Hamas firing rockets from civilian populations. You also don't include the firing of rockets that are aimed at Israeli civilian populations. Just because they often times weren't successful in killing doesn't mean it's not a war crime. That's like saying attempted murder is not a crime. Finally it was Hamas that has continually targeted civilian populations either with rockets or suicide bombers so the fact that Israel has more fire power to react doesn't make Israel's response a war crime.

what is there to probe. War crimes are their raison d'etre

The war on gaza was so disgusting. It showed the world what kind of blood thirsty lunatics run the state of Israel. To what end? Shame on Israel. Shame on the world.

Hamas's war crimes are at worst 7 wrongly killed. That is bad. Don't get me wrong, 7 dead Israeli's is bad. But it isn't 1300 dead. The IDF killed 1300+ in the Gaza Op. An investigation of Hamas will only come up with 7 bodies worth of crimes, whereas an investigation of the IDF can yield 1300 bodies worth of crimes.

But is it capable of conducting one? Hamas, for some reason, is not recognized as a government.

Of course Hamas should launch a public and open inquiry. They should also jail those deliberately targeting Israeli civilians. But they probably think that the IDF is the standard to emulate.

Yeah, Hamas isn't probing anything.

Hamas is a walking war crime and an affront to humanity. What's there to probe?