PA negotiator: We may seek UN recognition of Palestinian state

The Arab States invaded Palestine. Read the Declaration on the Invasion of Palestine 15h May 1948.CJ. Can you name the parts of Palestine that Arab states invaded in 1948?They surely has a name?Was Tel Aviv in Israel or in Palestine during the attack? And it would be helpful to send a link showing the borders of the Palestine that you are talking about.Thanks

When declaring the state of Palestine declare the borders as the only borders now recognized by the UN - the 1948 borders and thus reclaim as much of the original land legally possible. Also insist on a peace keeping force occupying Israel, the aggressor, for the past 60+ years so that you may live not in fear from the Israelies.

What the law says & what the law does are not the same thing. The settlements might be illegal but as long as Israel continues building or refuses to dismantle existing ones and nobody does anything about it then they are as good as legal. If you can't stop Israel building whats the point of complaining about their legality?

Politics can be very complex If it were not for China and Russia we would have stopped Iran and North Korea from their mad desire for nuclear weapons. Let's not forget that it was China that prevented the UN from preventing the genocide in dafur Let's give Bush some credit for stopping another butcher Saddam, who might have still been around along with his sons. Remember the the brutality of the Mughauddun in Afghanistan, they are gone now. So let's credit some leaders for their achievements instead of of criticisng them with our keystrokes. let's credit some our leaders fo crushing the terrorists in south Lebanon. where was the UN in all of this. In fact it is the UN and some Muslim countries along with the poor nations that take their handouts, that may be the real problems If I am wrong please correct me

its BEEN the spoiler ever since sharon empowered it with his crazed campaign against the pa. and it's too bad, because this alternative to the "negotiating" fiasco is probably the most tenable venture available to the palestinians.

As the settlements continue to choke off the possibility of a Palestinian state and Israels desire for the Jordan valley what kind of state is envisioned for the Palestinians? Jews at worst will be 50/50. It simple one man one vote. It worked in south africa, its not ideal i agree but whats left?

... the only Israeli borders recognised by the international community via the UN are the 1948 borders. Sort of demonstrates how much of a concession the Palestinians have made already by conceding the '67 borders. Of course, greedy Israel wants ever more. Well, eventually they will have the whole lot, at this pace, including a whole lot of Palestinians who will demand the vote I suspect Netanyahu is a Hamas mole!

It's Showtime again, more smoke and mirrors, another dog and pony show. The UN already offered the Palestinians a state in 1948, Camp David in 2000, Jerusalem in 2009. The mufti declined in 1948, Arafat said no in 2000, and Abbas again in 2009. Judged by their actions Palestinians prefer pity over dignity, victimhood to sovereignty, all Palestine judenrein more than any two-state solution. Erakat's "push" for statehood along the 1967 borders is just a gimmick, another plea for a handout. This time "statehood" instead of money (money later). The single success of Palestinian "nationalism" is groveling: self-degradation, self-flagellation, victimhood over the risk of failure at self-governance. The Palestinians are the problem of Palestine.

The Roadmap contains specific provisions in relation to settlement activity. Under Phase I, the GoI is under an obligation to: Immediately dismantle settlement outposts erected since March 2001; Freeze all settlement activity (including natural growth of settlements) consistent with the Mitchell Report; and Take ?no actions undermining trust, including ? confiscation and / or demolition of Palestinian homes and property ? or to facilitate Israeli construction ??

The phrase: "distinction without a difference". zf: "I challenge anyone to quote a single UNSC resolution referring to the settlements as 'illegal'. In its legal language the UNSC defines the settlements as 'having no legal validity'. " One nit: The UNSC doesn't use "legal language" since it is a POLITICAL body, not a COURT. Regardless, zf's point is immaterial. Israel is an "occupying power", and all OPs derive their authority over territory from int'l humanitarian law. OPs are not feudal warlords i.e. they can't do as they damn well please. So if an OP does something that the UNSC declares "has no legal validity" then that is, indeed, the same thing as saying "int'l law doesn't allow you to do that". After all, the only things that an OP is allowed to do are those it has authority to do under int'l law. Your argument is this: an OP can do as it pleases so long as it can get those acts "retrospectively legalized". That's bonkers, zf.

JO: "...Once the PA is a State the game changes forever and they will have to prove themselves capable of governing and building. No more relying on Israel or foreigners to pick up the pieces..." ============================== before 1948, the Palestinians were independent people, receiving handouts from no one

How would a one state solution work? I assume Jews would be a minority and if a constitution is adopted by the majority (i) making Jews second calls citizens, (ii) punishing them for stealing the Palestinian's land for all these years or (iii) even putting Jews to death, if done pursuant to that constitution it would all be legal. Now do you think Israel will agree to that? Or should the UN impose it? And what it what I predict above happens? Whose fault? I know - the Jews.

The settlements are ILLEGAL. Unless you are a renowned scholar in international law who has other facts and knowledge, the international legal and political community, including the USA, has unequivocally determined and clearly stated that our settlements in Palestine are ILLEGAL. Even if they were not illegal, if we truly want peace, we would admit that they are the NUMBER ONE obstacle to peace and that they must be removed. Alternatively, Jews living in these settlements can elect to be full citizens in Palestine and stay there. Peace NOW!!!

It*s Showtime again, more smoke and mirrors, another dog and pony show. The UN already offered the Palestinians a state in 1948, Camp David in 2000, Jerusalem in 2009. The mufti declined in 1948, Arafat said no in 2000, and Abbas again in 2009. Judged by their actions Palestinians prefer pity over dignity, victimhood to sovereignty, all Palestine judenrein more than any two-state solution. Erakat*s *push* for statehood along the 1967 borders is just a gimmick, another plea for a handout. This time *statehood* instead of money (money later). The single success of Palestinian *nationalism* is groveling: self-degradation, self-flagellation, victimhood over the risk of failure at self-governance. The Palestinians are the problem of Palestine.

If 2 states solution doesnt work which it probably wont. Even if we do create an arab state chances are we will not have anything but wars between us because there is to much hatred and the palestinians are not going to stop at the 1967 border it will do for a while but then they will want more. As for the 1 state idea what if Israel flatly rejects giving palestinians citizenship as it is entitled to do as an independent state which makes its own laws. This isn't South Africa palestinians are not and never have been Israeli citizens that means that we can't treat this conflict in the same way. Also the countries that matter would never dare back the idea There are to many supporters of Israel as an independent jewish state in both the US & Europe and these government worry trying to enforce a single state onto Israel risks this turning into civil war which is the last thing the world wants. The only single state idea that can work is Jordan declaring itself the palestinian state.

Your post that 'settlements are not illegal , they just lack legal validity ' defies all sense of logic . You explain further that the phrase 'lacks legal validity' doesn't mean that its illegal but rather means a 'lack of lawfullness and legality.' Well thanks for the clarification.

Jordan would be the first attacked by the Pals and then Israel will be accused Of unleashing the Pals against Jordan.

The Arab States invaded Palestine. Read the Declaration on the Invasion of Palestine 15h May 1948.CJ. Can you name the parts of Palestine that Arab states invaded in 1948?They surely has a name?Was Tel Aviv in Israel or in Palestine during the attack? And it would be helpful to send a link showing the borders of the Palestine that you are talking about.Thanks.

The PLO accepted the State of Israel in 1993. The UN accepted Israel as the State of Israel. Every country in the world recognizes Israel as The State of Israel. The Arab league in its peace offer in 2000 called Israel the State of Israel. Now, Israel has thought of a new name for itself which the Palestinians must use if they want peace. It?s a phony issue and one to be used by Israel to continue its illegal occupation of Palestinian land. Israelis also now claim that if the Palestinians recognize the Jewish State of Israel they will also have to recognize Jewish history in the land. It is nonsensical Zionist delusion that Palestinians must also recognize Jewish history. Countries of the international community recognize each other with no thought of each countries history. It is irrelevant.

They did that several times before and it didn't work, and all ended up with people killed from both sides and differences between the two parties intensified. No country will fight Israel because of palestine, and that include the arab countries including Egypt & Jordan . And I can't see that Iran will risk war with Israel because of the palestinian state ? If the palestinians wants to lose all the bridges of peace or any future palestinian state in any shape or form; the quickest way to do all that is to declare a palestinian state. Israel will not be erased from the map but the palestinians will play their last card of failure ! Abbas knew, any palestinian state can't survive as long as hamas in power in gaza.

If Abbas declares independence, so will Judea-Samaria, the islamic communities of western china,southern thailand, the phillipines, southern russia, and countless other minority communities,Right or wrong the UN and Abbas must consider unintended consequences. If the Jews of Yesha become citizens of an independent palestinia state, the building restrictions on them would be gone. If restricted by the PA they would rightly claim the PA was an "Apartheid" regime.They could well outnumber their arab neighbors in three generations. Right or wrong, consider the unintended consequences...

As a permanent member of the Security Council,the US may have the right to veto anything it wants as do the other permanent members?

To assess if or when peace will prevail, one needs to look at what is required to make that happen. Possibility 4: The GREAT MARCH FOR PEACE. Arabs, Moslems, and peace supporters from all around the world gather in Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, and Palestine to begin the GREAT PEACE MARCH toward Israel. A Martin Luther King type of march for peace. A global peaceful march showing the will of the world. Israel cannot stop it. Salam!

To assess if or when peace will prevail, one needs to look at what is required to make that happen. Possibility 3: Demographic changes. Over time, Israeli Jews will be a minority in pre-1967 Israel. Salam!

To assess if or when peace will prevail, one needs to look at what is required to make that happen. Possibility 2: Change in ME military blance. Arabs and Iran need to achieve military parity with Israel or at least having military capability that can threaten Israel. Salam!

To assess if or when peace will prevail, one needs to look at what is required to make that happen. Possibility 1: US political will. AIPAC and pro-occupation American Jews figured out how to exploit and control the US political system regarding Israel. The basic fact is that the US is in a constant election cycles. Obama won the two houses but cannot push hard on Israel since he needs AIPAC and pro-occupation American Jews and Conservatives to pass health care. Once that is done, he will be in the midst of an election cycle (2010) to preserve his majority in the House and Senate. Once that is done, he?ll be looking to his re-election campaign. That means, he will always be needing the support of AIPAC and pro-occupation American Jews because they donate HUGE amounts of money and they control major media outlets. Without US political will to apply real pressure on Israel, there will be no peace. Salam!

Its the last chance. Negotiations won't work...It's either this or one state...

First thing that will happen is we will go to war because Israel hasn't agreed on the borders of this state & has its settlers and capital to defend. The only way this war will end will involve the US stepping in and telling the palestinians that they must renegotiate the borders of their state to get Israeli recognition needed to end fighting. The only viable solution for them is for Abbas to agree to talk with Israel unconditionally and be patient that way they avoid a war and keep the world & Israels left on their side. The problem from the start was we based things on deadlines instead of oslo we should have said in principle we agree to the creation of an arab state but peace must come first we take as long as it takes for peace. Done that way both sides would have been cornered palestinians must end terror & there would have been no argument of defense in Israel against creation of this state. It would have taken a long time but there would be peace & a state as a reward.

The whole world cheers for Palestine. Declare your State. Take what is yours! If you continue to wait, and beg for Justice from Isreal, you will receive exactly what Isreal has offered for decades: land theft, and vague promises that lead to nothing.

Other than the politicial backlash like the major powers like the US refusing to recognize a state thats not come about as a result of nagotiations then things would go from bad to worse for them. Money if they have a state UNRWA will be wound up and most palestinians rely on UNRWA for their survival instead they will get UN food handouts only. Western governments are not going to be so generous in their handouts anymore especially if the US doesn't recognize this state because it wasn't based on negotiation and there is a global recession governments are more interested in financing an arab state. Israel will probably take away work permits for all palestinians with jobs in Israel & its borders would be sealed and palestinains need access to Israel for trade. They will probably end up going to war with Israel because this state doesn't exist because of agreements made The state probably impode apart as different factions fight for power

There is no point in taking this to the UN Security Council. The US Government is indirectly anti-Palestinian, anti-Arab, and anti-Muslim. The American people are not, and the American people are used as a tool by the Christian right and those who have sold themselves to AIPAC. If the American people had true power and control, there would have been a Palestinian state long ago. Even if American Jews flexed their will there would be one, because most American Jews don't have blind Jewish nationalism. They're regular Americans. They don't agree in being brutal to minorities and having religious wars. The US would veto anything going to the UN Security Council. The Palestinians would replicate what happened in 1947 and call for the General Assembly to recognize Palestine. The countries that do so would eventually have to take action if Israel doesn't come to some agreement with the Palestinians.

Please point out anywhere in the 4-th where it refers to the Jewish settlements as illegal. Population transfer issue is limited to situations where a power seized a territory from its previous legal owner. That is not the case with the territories that are disputed. The following 1979 UNSC convention # 446 defined the applicability of the 4-th Geneva in the following language: ?Affirming once more that the Geneva Convention RELATIVE TO THE PROTECTION OF CIVILIAN PERSONS in time of war, of August 12 1949 is applicable to the Arab territories occupied by Israel since 1967 including East Jerusalem. This was done so that the Arab population would not be subjected to imprisonment, transfers etc. Again, please tell me how this protection of Arab civilians translates into illegality of Jewish settlements built on barren parcels of a disputed territory.

It's about time these Palestinians declare a State. How slow are these guys ? They are not going to get anything from us ( Israel ). Let's get this whole mess over with.

First, UNSC 242 and 338 do not mention the establishment of a Palestinian State. Second, UN General Assembly Resolution 194 does not mention a 'right of return' (this is the Arabs picking 1 sentence out of dozens and twisting it). Third, if the Palestinians declare their own state, good luck. The border wall will become the new Green Line and Ariel will be annexed along with security roads. Of course, the Arabs can always try and push Israel out but I think we know how that worked out in 1948, '56, '67', and '73. The Palestinians are going for a unilateral declaration because they realize Israel will NOT accept blame and responsibility for Arabs attacking her in 1948 and causing the refugee problem the next 60 years. And Israel is not going back to the 1967 'Auschwitz' Borders. Nor will they re-divide Jerusalem. Nor will they allow millions of refugees into Israel. In other words, Israel will NOT commit suicide like Abbas and the Palestinans/Arabs want. Too bad.

People wants to move beyond the illegal Israeli settlers and most certainly their apologists & enablers in the Israeli establishment. They need to pull their own weight in this world instead of riding on the backs of another people and their historic homeland. It'a all just so damn immoral and illegal now....Get out! Dutch P.S. The Palestinians should count on the blessings of the Inter- national court of Justice in the Hague as a fourteen panel ruled unanimously in 2004 Israel must must its troops and "void" all its structures in the Palestinian territories. The best part of all was when the justices declared an illegally placed barrier cannot protect illegal settlements. What a farce that whole monstrosity has become ....

Foreign aid is not unlimited except to israel.The U.S.has pumped 115 billion$ and counting into israel with no end in sight.

The settlements are ILLEGAL. Unless you are a renowned scholar in international law who has other facts and knowledge, the international legal and political community, including the USA, has unequivocally determined and clearly stated that our settlements in Palestine are ILLEGAL. Even if they were not illegal, if we truly want peace, we would admit that they are the NUMBER ONE obstacle to peace and that they must be removed. Alternatively, Jews living in these settlements can elect to be full citizens in Palestine and stay there. Peace NOW!!!

No matter what you do, you are destined to fail. Thats what you all do best.

If the US says in advance it will not recognize any palestinian state that was not created as a result of a negotiated agreement with Israel then non of the other countries that matter will vote in favour. Like it or not the US is the worlds only superpower now and politically its till follow the leader in the west and Russia no longer has the power & influence it once did. Also considering all the other issues like the fact nothing has been agreed between the 2 sides it won't bring peace and unless its as a result of negotiations Israel is not going to withdraw its settlers and will protect them again resulting in war its unlikely that to many western or imfulential states will be in to much of a hurry to back such a state. united in their politics so big talks by Erekat doesnt mean much. If they gamble & go to the UN without the US on their side & the UN votes against they could destroy everything they have now politically & the US wont back anything but a negotiated settlement.

Settlements shouldn't exist in the first place, if Palestine is declared the settlers should have a choice as to whether they remain Israeli or become Palestinian citizens. A Palestinian state might be the only solution to the conflict

The US cannot veto a declaration of statehood or prevent other countries from recognizing Palestine. I dont think it could or would prevent Palestine from signing the Geneva Conventions. Most of the uncertainty about the application of international law to this conflict has arisen from the facts that the Pals are not a state entity and cannot sign the Geneva Conventions. This could change in a matter of days - like it did with Israel. Its not entirely clear if US could prclude UN membership. Per the UN charter, this is a matter decided by the General Assembly, albeit upon a recommendation from the SC. But the GA is not required to accept SC recommendation, so a veto might or might not stop membership. As long as borders remain open to negotiation, its far from clear that the US would veto UN membership. Many UN members have had border disputes when admitted.

You are right that statehood would impose various duties and obligations on the Palestinians. The PA long ago renounced terrorism and recognized Irsael's right to exist. It would almost certainly sign the Geneva Conventions. Once Palestine joins the UN - a decision made by the General Assembly (albeit based on a "recommendation" from the Security Council) - and signs the Geneva Conventions, the organs of international law can come into play to settle the border dispute. I dont think Obama would veto a SC resolution recommending UN membership. This would not resolve the border issue, but would shift it to a realm beyond stalled bilateral negotiations. The 1967 borders are Israel's internationally recognized borders, but at various times, both sides have given credence to the swapping of WB land for other land that is now part of Israel.

Because the Boycott campaign is growing, and if the ICC starts an official war crimes investigation (and later prosecution), which it can do even if the UNSC fails to act on Goldstone (and that failure will certainly give momentum to the campaign), it will gain a lot of credibility. And the Palestinian people will see that a South African outcome is in the winds, and will not likely be willing to settle for less.

Thank you for helping to expose other first hand information about the evil motivations of the invading Arab forces. Enshallah we'll have real peace here someday. Salaam.

Israel must dismantle the PA and Hamas first, remove the terror infrastructure, apprehend and indict anyone involved in terror and incitement. Remind Obama of the Bush doctrine of USA fighting terrorism everywhere; then pass the administrative authority and support it, to a local temporary body, possible with an UN component. Then start the negotiations for a Palestinian state. But NO negotiations with the actual PA - Fatah authority. During the fighting phase, Israel should warn that whomever will be caught with gun powder traces on their hands will be punished/ Not the regular gunshots gun powder, but from grenade propeller, missile combustion and other weapons.

It is the borders, responsibllity not to become a terror state, and willingness to take in their own refugees that will have to be negotiated. Abbas and Erakat can not dictate the outcome in particular the borders. 1967 borders will not fly in the US or Israel. I doubt that the EU will go for it either. The Arab states will go for it, but since there are other demands from the borders won't really matter. Best Abbas gets off his high horse and face some reality-he has to talk to Netanahyu.

Without a US veto, the UN security council would basically go down the Kosovo route. In fact it's much easier for them than Kosovo, because that was internationally recognised sovereign Serbian territory. Nobody recognises Israeli sovereignty over any of the west Bank or Gaza, so there is no danger of setting precedents for Darfur, Chechnya etc. etc. The UNSC passes a resolution demanding Israeli withdrawl and handover to a UN/EU/NATO/Arab League mission. Israel refuses and eventually gets sancstions slapped on it. Israel resists but eventualy gives in. UN/EU/NATO/Arab Laegue oversees peaceful transition to free Palestine, where the settlers can stay as Pal citizens under Pal law if they've acquired the land legally. Problem solved.

You have obviously never been to the WB or bothered to look at pictures. The Pals have built large cities, impressive universities and governmental facilities. What do you think? That they are living in grass huts?

They will do it again. armies from all Arabian countries surrounded Israel in an attempt to throw Jewish, Israel residents into the mediteranian. I remember very well standing on the side walk in Baghdad watching the military speeding to the war with 100s of Russian tanks, the people waving to the soldiers riding tanks with V sign. When I asked what that sign meant with, the answer was: bring two one for you and one for me, women. They are still in the same mentality for the last 1500 years, invading countries and taking women away. How can you trust them with 1967 boarders.

The PA has recognized Israel's right to exist. No country in the world recognizes Israel or any other country as any kind of racially defined state. As long as the new Pal state recognizes Israel's right to exist, accepts its territorial integrity within the 1967 borders and grants it diplomatic reognition, this whole notion of damding recognition as a "Jewish state" is nonsensical. Do you really think Israel could get away with starting a war simply because the new Pal state does not recogize Israel as a Jewish state? Israel is no position to demand this as a "first step" toward peace.

"Palestinians do not recognize the right of Israel to exist" This is simply untrue. The PA, PLO and Fatah have recognized Israel's right to exist. Yes, there are extremist groups who reject the existence of Israel, but there are also Israeli settlers who want to force all Pals to transfer to Jordan. article: "The Palestinian Authority is considering seeking recognition from the United Nations Security Council of a Palestinian state along 1967 lines" The mainstream, not extremists, are relevant. The proposed Pal state does recognize Israel within the 1967 borders. Its time for Zionists to stop this mindless attribution of the attitudes of extremists to all Pals. Poll after poll has shown that the vast majority of Pals are willing to settle for the 1967 borders. The refugee problem must be addressed, but only fools and extremists demand that millions of Pal refugees be permitted to return to Israel proper. Reparations are the obvious answer.

The likes of you can play with words till you are blue in the face , you can spend huge amounts of money are spent by Jewish groups for PR: 1. For years the holocaust and it's tragic memory protected Israel ..... no more 2. US congress for the most part votes pro-Israel unconditionally....this is a huge liability for the US all over the world..read Stephen Walt and others ....no more 3. PR: Israel is the victim....Israel massacred hundreds of civilians in cast lead and deliberately destroyed what little infrastructure left in Gaza. PR to discredit a renowned judge with a truly impressive record...no more 4. PR equate any legit criticism of israel as antisemitic....no more

Plan Dalet was a defensive plan, against the agression of the arab bands hidding in towns and villages that threat to cut Jewish communications between cities towns and kibutzim. That was the response to an exterminium war launched against the Jews. 2) Come on give a break.....Arab armies moving into Palestinian territory in order to protect ...what???? They move to exterminate the Jewish state. The Israeli tiny community WAS TOTALLY right to defend itself by attacking. The same argument applies to the 6 days war, a utterly defensive war.

NOW is finally the time of the PALESTINIANS. Good Luck GOD SPEED.

to this long standing problem. This was in fact what Xavier Solana has been saying lately, meaning most of EUROPEAN countries will also on board. This in fact will be a BONUS +++. Bibi will not have to worry about his PM position vis a vis his Right Wing Group. Pres. Barak Obama, will not keep wasting his valuable time sorting out this complicated mess, Chairman Abbass popularity will increase, Hamas popularity will go down, and the next Palestinians Gen. Election will surely bring ABBASS to power for at least the next 5 years. Tne Un will show that they can do a Good Job. The Region of the ME will be at Peace and the World communities will be safer to move about.

are legal. An entity cannot declare Sovereignty unless they have complete control over their territories. "The Palestinians and their backup Arab armies in 1947-48 didn`t have the foresight to realize the repurcussions of a potential military loss to Israel because they were blinded and intoxicated with religious hate and intolerance towards the Jews at that time, as they wanted all the land for themselves and Islam." No, they wanted a say in the matter as guaranteed by the LON Charter and later the UN Charter. The Jewish Agency, under Plan Dalet was taking Palestinian territory at the time Israel Declared, it was already exceeding the territory it was declaring Sovereignty over. The Arab states actually guaranteed religious freedom.

Why did they not do this years ago? It seems a perfectly obvious thing to do. The Pals have only a small bit of pre-Israel Palestinian left to them, and that bit bit gets smaller with every settlement house built. The only other options will soon be a SA Bantustan-style setup (a la Netanyahu) or a single multi-racial state.

...but PA should also recognize that such a state does not give the new Palestine a right to successfully wage war to make that state Judenrein--now matter how many legal fairy-tale tellers they can round up from an admiring West, no international convention gives them the right not only to wage war to expel Israel on their side of the divide but to win....

The US is the only remaining Super Power. If it does not agree with what happens in the UN, the UN is render useless. It is better to let the US arrange it alliances for itself and not be forced to accept what it does not want. Do you remember what the "league of nations" was and why it failed?

The Palestinians continually choosing to war with Israel through thoughts, words, and deeds will only result in the enlargement and protective reinforcement of her strategic depth. The Palestinians and their backup Arab armies in 1947-48 didn't have the foresight to realize the repurcussions of a potential military loss to Israel because they were blinded and intoxicated with religious hate and intolerance towards the Jews at that time, as they wanted all the land for themselves and Islam. Sixty two years later their face of hate still stalks the region, sometimes masked by feigned smiles of seduction, sometimes blatantly baring a rabid infrastructure of intifada incisors to further their exclusive military and political aims for the region. Now the Palestinians are thinking about asking the busy world to immediately drop all the progress they're making in the 21st Century and to help them collectively turn the clock of conscience and construction backwards at least 42 years.

The Obama administration's main concern at the moment is the passing of a health care reform bill that eluded more than 6 presidents over the past 50 years. Once they get this monkey off their back, the Obama administration will be willing to get more engaged in the Middle East. In the mean time, it will pay lip service to the peace process because it does not want to antagonize the congressmen and senators whom it needs their support to pass the health care bill.

Unless the US is happy with the plan, they will veto it. At the moment with Hamas around, it is not realistic.

Haven't you read the Fourth Geneva Convention yet?

Most of Israel and the World have been waiting for the Palestinians to declare their state. That would mean that they actually have to take responsibilty to create and run a nation - not too easy for them. Remember, the US declared independence long before they were recognized and they were still under British control.

"I challenge anyone to quote a single UNSC resolution referring to the settlements as ?illegal?." There isn't one " In its legal language the UNSC defines the settlements as ?having no legal validity?" Care to put it up.... Never the less, they're illegal. Under the Geneva Conventions it the Occupying Power can only build for military purposes, not for it's own civilians. Further more under the Laws of War, it is illegal for the Occupying Power to institute it's own Civil Law in occupied territories. Laws of War Art. 55. ?The occupying State shall be regarded only as administrator and usufructuary of public buildings, real estate, forests, and agricultural estates belonging to the hostile State, and situated in the occupied country. It must safeguard the capital of these properties, and administer them in accordance with the rules of usufruct.?

It*s Showtime again, more smoke and mirrors, another dog and pony show. The UN already offered the Palestinians a state in 1948, Camp David in 2000, Jerusalem in 2009. The mufti declined in 1948, Arafat said no in 2000, and Abbas again in 2009. Judged by their actions Palestinians prefer pity over dignity, victimhood to sovereignty, all Palestine judenrein more than any two-state solution. Erakat*s *push* for statehood along the 1967 borders is just a gimmick, another plea for a handout. This time *statehood* instead of money (money later). The single success of Palestinian *nationalism* is groveling: self-degradation, self-flagellation, victimhood over the risk of failure at self-governance. The Palestinians are the problem of Palestine.

This is the best way to move forward towards a free, independent Palestine with justice. It elevates discussions beyond the pettiness of politics within Israel and the USA without compromising those politicians. This is about honoring the original UN mandate for two states, Israel and Palestine. It is time to correct errors, misjudgements, excesses and misplaced trust from the last fourty-two years. Restoration and reconstruction of an unencumbered, viable Palestinian can begin. It would be well if France, Great Britain, the USA, the Arab nations and Russia can collaborate in this journey to justice. Palestine will need economic and technical aid that can flow to Palestine directly. A solidly, viable Palestinian state is an asset to the world and a potential partner. Israel's concerns about security evaporate, and the occupation becones nothin more that an intrusion that must end.

The settlements are ILLEGAL. Unless you are a renowned scholar in international law who has other facts and knowledge, the international legal and political community, including the USA, has unequivocally determined and clearly stated that our settlements in Palestine are ILLEGAL. Even if they were not illegal, if we truly want peace, we would admit that they are the NUMBER ONE obstacle to peace and that they must be removed. Alternatively, Jews living in these settlements can elect to be full citizens in Palestine and stay there. Peace NOW!!!

That wonder of mine was rather a kind of question which implies a cloudy view of the reality. You talk about Jordanians doing things against al aqsa mosque. Well, I shall ask, have you visited that place? Have you lived in Israel/Palestine areas? Israelis are digging under the mosque so many years ago... Muslims from all over the world are not allowed to enter that mosque... Pals or even Jerusalem residents cannot go and pray unless they comply with a checklist held by the Israeli police!!! I am a 30-min distant from the mosque by car and the last time when I visited the mosque was in 1999. Well, I am 26-year old young man who may possibly has some 'terrorist genes' so Israelis are very well cautioned and made it clear that only old people can visit the place whom effect can be the least and can be beaten easily. I would not accept as a Palestinian any state without a full control over the borders, air, sea, independent economy, etc... Just like any other country in the world!

"they rejected those borders and attacked brutally to israel!" What parts of SOVEREIGN Israel did they attack? From the moment Israel Declared Sovereignty, it was no longer part of Palestine. The Arab States invaded Palestine. Read the Declaration on the Invasion of Palestine 15h May 1948. There is no UNSC resolution condemning the Arab States, because what they did was not illegal. They had a right to protect the Palestinian territories from the aggression started under Plan Dalet in the weeks preceding Israeli Independence.

territory however, as Israel has done, is not. The UN doesn't care which Contracting Power occupies a non-state entity as long as it abides by the Geneva Conventions. Israel has not.

It won't work if we want it more than you or the Palestinians. Both sides seem content with status quo and neither is willing to do more for movement. Your politicians seem to like you in fear and politically unstable. The US doesn't recognize the right of conquest since the end of WW II, before the birth of Israel. 9-11 doesn't and won't change that. You all need to choose your preference, One or two or three states. None or all with rights of conquest. Security for all or security for none.

Israel should stop all the charities sending me requests to help feed their poor? No more protection in the UNSC via the US veto vote? Israel will comply with the law instead? What exactly are you trying to say?

recognition of Israel was done as soon the talk begin years ago Now to go back and say was not regognize is jewish state is another way of Natanyahu to stall the peace talk! UN need to make this decision is time!

...Majority of the American people ( excluding our Congress due to AIPAC financing) will support your move. Do it in January 2010 no later. Most of the Europeans population will support an independent Palestinian State, they already said it. Of course all the Islamic countries and Latin America except a few. So nothing to loose. You tried everything else. If no follow through then you should resign and let someone else carry the torch. Netanyahu is a hopeless case, he wants to keep his job. Good Luck

Clearly Israel will never recognize the right of Palestine to exist. And clearly it has done and will continue to do all that it can to see that such a state never comes into existence. As long as the US supports this callous regime of Israel, peace does not seem possible.

I challenge anyone to quote a single UNSC resolution referring to the settlements as ?illegal?. In its legal language the UNSC defines the settlements as ?having no legal validity?. Now, for those ignoramuses who think that these two are one and the same thing, please refer to the definitions of both. ?Illegality? means directly contradicting an EXISTING law, that is, a law that is already on the books, that makes something illegal, an indictable offence and thus subject to remediation. ?No legal validity?, according to its definition, is synonymous with lack of one of the following: authenticity, authority, correctness, force, forcefulness, genuineness, gravitas, lawfulness, legal force, legality, legitimacy, legitimateness. It is like a common law marriage that exists but is not legally recognized. However, it does not mean that entities with no legal validity contradict any existing law. It only means that their status in not permanent and they must be legalized and are subject to future changes, modifications that may include removal, but not yet. The settlements are NOT ILLEGAL.

They will never do it,because their so called resistance will be over.Iran will never allow such a move and who pays the bills gets the last word.

This is the only solution left. A decade of Sharon,Olmert and Netanyahu fanatic right wing policy has exhausted efforts to establish a rightful palestinian state and Netanyahu still offers no glimmer of hope. And there is no arafat anymore, Abbas has been modearet.Years of equating Hamas and Hizbullah with the palestinian people who just want freedom and peace has wasted too much time and punished and further despaired a whole population unfairly. Settlements continue and a gaza seige has made life impossible for innocent milllions. Israeli arrogance under right wing fundamentalists will lead Israel nowhere in the future and even world powers, especially USA can no longer hide their impatience with Israel.Israel deserves to live and so do the Palestinians. The very inhumane occupation, brutality and war crimes created Hamas and Hizbullah in the first place and then they equate it with the whole population and set unreasonable comditions.

Richard Holbrooke has proved himself over and over as a true mediator and hands on man of action. Seeking UN recognition as an Independent State is obviously due to lack of co-operation and possibly the passive efforts by Mr.Mitchell. What has yet to be ascertained is whether Gaza will be part of the Independent State. Whatever the outcome, vetoes and procrastinations will follow until somebody wakes up or a third intifada follows. This may well be the reason why PM Netanyahu is seeking a deal with Syria.

I think it's time for the Palestinians to come back down to reality. Mere recognition will not help the Palestinians from the state they are in. First, they have to solve their problems theirselves. Of course, a civil war might pit a nail in the coffin with some issues but to except to avoid bloodshed is, well, unrealistic.

they rejected those borders and attacked brutally to israel! sorry but those borders re dead and they were killed by palestinians so they dont deserve those borders!

however the 1949 Geneva Conventions that stipulates " the inadmissibility of acquiring land by force" is seen as the guideline as to what is to happen, thus:"an end to the occupation that started in 1967".

which means that Israel can ditch the whole thing and take back territories.

i cant believe but i totally agree with u on this

"I always wonder why they just don`t destroy Al Aqsa mosque?" For the same reason they left it in the hands of the Waqf. Whatever your opinion of Israelis may be, Osama, the vast majority of them genuinely respect other religions and have no intention of behaving as the Jordanians did when they controlled this part of Jerusalem - destroying all synagogues and defiling ancient tombstones.

no more continous donations, a State is required to feed, house, cloth, find jobs, build education and welfare and educational structures all by itself. Foreign aid is not unlimited. Once the PA is a State the game changes forever and they will have to prove themselves capable of governing and building. No more relying on Israel or foreigners to pick up the pieces. It will be interesting to see where this goes and how it developes. Refugee status will be no more. The UN picking up the tab for such no more. It is time for this

The Palestinians should declare their state based on the UN partition plan in 1947. Similar to the latest EuGH ruling about tax reduction for imported goods to the EU.

Both Hamas and Hizbulla are arming themselves to the teeth readying for a more vicious onslaught on Israel .What is the USA response ,nothing . The west bank belongs to Hamas ,every Arab knows that . Hamas intends to do in the West bank what it did in Gaza ,control it and then attack Israel . Obama response is to encourage this step by insisting on Fatah declaring an independent Palestinian state on the west bank.The USA should get rid of Hamas ,the rest then will be easy ,Israel will then truly understand extremism is not accepted ,and will advance peace with the knowledge that Israel will be safe .

The author of "A decade of failed Middle East Policy" suggests that the US should simply come out and admit that Israel has nuclear arms if Netanyahu doesn't freezes settlement activities and negotiate "an end to the occupation that started in 1967". That should set fire to that sorry arse.

What can I gain as a Palestinian if the UN or any other international bodies recognize a Palestinian state with east Jerusalem as our capital? Can I go and pray in Jerusalem? I doubt that. No check points will be spread across the west bank? I also doubt that and I doubt many many other things. The game is quite clear, nothing can be done without an Israeli consent. Neither the US nor all international bodies in the world can force Israel to do things it doesn't want to. Well, there are many resolutions by the UN that ask Israel for instance to stop building the fence, and then so what? I think Israelis do not want us in that land. Here I would say that this would be kind of myths they make themselves to believe. They can't with all this power kick us out. Israel should remember that they live in the middle of the Arab world which will someday explode in their faces. I always wonder why they just don't destroy Al Aqsa mosque?

The Israeli right has prostituted the future of Israel. Now Israel will have to bow to the UN decision to back Palestine's claim to the '67 territories.

That will be the first step to peace. no pal state until

The James Baker line "you know our number, give us a call when you are ready" is just a sound bite. In the end, it is quite childish. The problem, which isn't just a local one, doesn't go away by chosing to withdraw from engagement, and the Middle East has a tendency to get soon to a theatre next to you if not dealt with. The Twin Towers stood in NY city, not in Tel Aviv.

...that the Americans have come to a decision. They will not continue this farce because they understand that dragging the Palestinians to the table merely so that they can be smirked at by Netanyahu will achieve precisely NOTHING. So there is no point in doing so. And there will be no point in doing so UNTIL they wipe the smirk off Netanyahu's smug little face. Hop to it Obama.

Even in the absnence of a political process the EU just upgraded its trade relationship with Israel, so despite all declarations of sympathy for the Palestinian cause, the EU is less inclined in exerting presure on Israel (or anyone) than the US. Neither the EU, nor the UN had any leverage to solve any armed conflict. Don't fool yourself. In the end the Americans are needed for solutions (e.g. Kosovo), while the Europeans are busy to disagree on standards for size and shape of milk bottles.

It's traditionally been the percepetion that the US is the solution to the ME problem. In fact it IS the problem. Basically, the whole world, except Israel and the US believes in a Palestinian state in the 1967 borders with some sort of token return of refugess and compensation for the rest. It's only the US veto in the security council that prevents that happening tomorrow. The US seems to be admitting, what we've all known for some time, that it just can't serve as an effective, neutral mediator between Pals and Israel. So it should do the decent thing and back out, leaving it to the UN and EU which can be neutral.

there is nothing to stop the establishment of a Palestinian state except themselves, their corrupt leadership, civil war, and penchant for force instead of nation building. while israel took the last 6 decades to develop itself into a modern nation, the Palestinians have embraced violence and internal discord. good luck to them. maybe their own state will help them wake up and get down to the real business. at last.

Who does want a state of the Pals? The UN cannot create one against the Pals wishes and against the reality of Israels continued presence however it may look. Nobody has on interest in the two state solution except Israel.

Nataniahu and the rest of Israelis is willing to establish a Palestinian state (that includes Gaza and West Bank) who lives next to Israel in peace and security. Palestinians do not recognize the right of Israel to exist so even after the establish of the Palestinian state arabs will continue their jihad to conquer the whole place. For this reason palestinians are not ready yet for their state. Until arab will accept that Israel has the right to exist, they will continue support terror and will justify their jihad. Peace will be achived only when arabs accept Israel.

why bother to negotiate?

i would have never thought that you were this naive. peace cannot be imposed on israel or the palestinians. such a move would require an armed intervention which is simply not possible for many reasons. even if obama were to decide to stop u.s. support in the security council, it would not solve any of the core issues. the only solution is bilateral negotiations between israel and the palestinians. obama has blown any chance of acting as a broker with his ill advised demand for a total freeze. such demands will not be accepted by netanyahu, and have only led to humiliation of both parties. obama has no understanding of the middle east, and he has surrounded himself with advisors who are not very bright.

Abbas is acting like a petulant child. "Give me what I want or I'll quit. Boo Hoo" The Arabs demand a settlement freeze. What are THEY offering? More rockets shot at Israel? Another Intifada? A continued unwillingness to recognize our right to exist? Calls for the death of Israel? Drawing a moral equivalent between building homes on disputed territory and shooting rockets at innocent civilians is repugnant. Using children and Mosques as shield is OK. However,Israel is accused of committing War Crimes for defending itself and taking unprecedented steps to protect the lives of the enemy. The last time the world's leaders "negotiated" in this situation, over 60 million people lost their lives. It is refreshing to see a Prime Minister of Israel who is able to stand up to unrelenting pressure to give away the country. Mr. Abbas has done nothing to promote peace.He knows that signing a Peace Treaty with Israel is signing his own Death Warrant.

The US isn't neutral enough to treat this conflict like Kosovo and Bosnia. We won't force peace where it isn't wanted for now. Leaders on both sides have the White House number when you're ready. Ask for Barack. Or call George Mitchell at State.

...and what about the 2 years that we were obligated to complete negotiations? Who believes anymore anything from the US? Nothing binding, no rules, nothing mandatory, anything goes, like...Likud - 100% settlering, Hamas - 100% rejecting/murdering, Fatah - 100% complaining, Obama - 100% vacillating (but talking)...

When exactly will both sides be ready? Netanyahu didn't even want a 2 state solution when he was elected. Does anyone really think he's ready to negotiate? The only reason he says he's ready for negotiations is because Abbas is refusing to negotiate. It's easy to say you'll negotiate anytime anywhere when the other party won't meet with you. Israel wants a policy of fake diplomacy that never ends in 2 states. Just never ending negotiations. I think Obama should propose a summit at camp David like Clinton did. He souls do it now so at the beginning of his term so the parties can be held accountable

....then better back down and don't waste our (and your) time any longer. Then we should indeed think about an alternative mediator (EU or UN).....