PA Chairman: We will continue to seek the release of all prisoners

Germans, russians, british, americans, dutch = all of them know how to deal with prisioners of war. They made countries on their back. Now want to teach the israelis good manners...

Hello Mark, I agree with you our world is becoming more humane and human rights abusers are no longer tolerated on the same level they were previously and violations in HR have brought down many powerful regimes as I noted in my post to you. Hence it is my belief the power structure has shifted in another way in favor of the occupied but I will admit the mighty still holds a monopoly on the power of acceptance as Eisenhower pointed out. Still, this is not be without carrying a huge price tag on its national and international image as the American Scholar and philosopher Ralph Waldo Emerson noted in 1844: "It is a doctrine alike of the oldest and of the newest philosophy, that man is one, and that you cannot injure any member, without a sym- pathetic injury to all the members". Hope you might agree . Dutch P.S. I look forward to the day we can all turn in our weapons based on mutual respect and under- standing that we are all indeed one as Emerson said . Then maybe John Lennon's dream will finally come through: " Imagine ...All the people living life in peace... They say I am a dreamer but I am not the only one...." http://www.theromantic.com/lovesongs/imagine.htm

Talk... talk....just talk about releasing 'Palestinian Prisoners' while there is not a word uttered about the release of Israeli Prisoners. Neither is there any authentic confirmation if these Israeli prisoners are dead or alive while the demand is for the release of ALL 'Palestinian' Prisoners. One must agree that the Arabs are a 'gutsy' lot, even to the point of demanding a Homeland in the 0.01% of the land in the miniscule area of the Jewish Homeland when their 23rd Arab State should be anywhere within the 9.09% land mass in the region of the Peninsular of Arabia. I am Anglo-Saxon British born in Hongkong and so is my Mother, our family business having been for years in British Hongkong..... but at the same time I CANNOT CLAIM LAND IN CHINA TO BE BRITISH except our family residence, as Arabs wish to claim part of the Jewish Homeland to become their 23rd Arab State! Can someone explain please?

Indeed, there has never in the History of the World been a Nation of Palestinians,except when in Ancient History during the Christ Period the Jews and others living in the region which was then under Roman rule were the natives and therefore 'Palestinians'. Under the British Mandate everyone was called a Palestinian, Jews, Arabs, Armenians, Turks whoever,whereas today Arabs who were always known as Palestinian/ARABS a group of Arabs from different partsof the Arabs World have misappropriately called themselves'Palestinians', a cunning ploy with the specific view of making claim on the land of the same name when they are ARABS. Furthremore,as Palestine is still only a region and not a State as yet, there can be no AUTHENTIC Palestinians and they are only a 'mythical people' and using 'pals' is simply short for palestinians which is acceptable as being shortened for a 'mythical people'.

your naivette. Have u fallen ill recently? Is this the self-styled wannabe moral judge on an Israeli on-line paper? Don't hear much from you on the criminal war that thatcher embarked on. Or the poor electrician that the english police massacred. With 7 bullets. Even tho he was innocent. England's recent history is one of single-minded self-interest. They haven't yet worked out that the Great in GB will for evermore continue to remain a misnomer and the butt of of many, many jokes. The scales have fallen off my eyes. The English politburo is an evil, racist and criminal entity unconcerned with anybody else but a struggling Britain. U clearly need another Canary Wharf (or were u still in school...) by muslims in the UK to wake u up a touch. The IRA forced the english to the negotiating table. Your "oppresed" UK muslims will soon do the same again.

Even PLO leaders have admitted that an Arab pal state has never existed, that the so-called pals belong to the great Arab nation but the denomination ?pals? is convenient for them as a weapon against Israel. Neither do UN resolutions on the matter call them ?pals? but just ?refugees?.

Thank you for your invitation but your forum looks stiflingly narrow and rather slow to me. At the moment I prefer the dynamism of the Talkback with all its faults.

ISRAELI INTERNAL POLITICS The decision to divorce the political and creative facets of Israel has long been made by the people, without anyone noticing. Why we have such ineffectual politicians when our scientific and artistic achievements are so remarkable has long been a central talking point. The answer is that it?s clear to all that there is a stalemate in the political arena in the ME and wasting our best brains by having them hack away at a wall of deliberately turned backs surmounted by keffiyas is unproductive and a waste of energy. We want peace to go forward while the Arabs stubbornly remain in the previous century, deliberately making impossible claims and conditions to keep us in a trap where we waste our brains and energy. Their lackeys and envoys in the world, well represented by the apologists on this talkback attempt to keep our fires damped. Propaganda is rife, just to keep Israel under control. Don't fall for this ploy.

The world is moving away from seeing the ME as a central pivot in its works. Read the recent article IT'S BEST TO IGNORE THE MIDDLE EAST by Edward N. Luttwak in Prospect Magazine. The article points out that ME oil is far less crucial than the pundits have made it out to be. He points out that "we devote far too much attention to the Middle East, a mostly stagnant region where almost nothing is created ... excluding Israel, per capita patent production of countries in the ME is one-fifth that of sub-Saharan Africa. The people of the Middle East... are remarkably unproductive, with a high proportion not in the labour force at all." Let us free the Israelis from the small-mindedness and the hatred of the Arabs that surround us. You?re offering us an albatross. We can be of benefit to the whole world if the 'energy' is allowed to flow into productive channels without the necessity of constant self defense absorbing all our time and available funds.

"But Sam, are you forgetting that Judaism/Zionism support for "Christian" America`s invasion of Islamic Iraq and attempted hegemony of Islamic countries in the Middle East? " - Maureen Ann Maureen, I never had a Jew try to convert me. And what does a imperial/commercial attempt to conquer a base in the middle east with it's own fuel supply have much to do with religion? If Bush is such a devout Christian where does he get the idea that Jesus said "Blessed are the Warmongers"? "Are you forgetting the continuing cry for war against Islamic Iran, coming from Zionist Israel?" - Maureen I do not believe that there are "Islamo-facist" either Maureen. I see conservative governments that think a war against Iran is politically desirable. If that country is in fact no real threat then it will be a cakewalk like Iran? Listen to the warhawks Maureen. They all insist that Iran is the ultimate threat, and at the same time they say Iran will be a cakewalk. Which is real, threat or weakness?

I have since the death of Arafat that Israel should deal with Abbas. I wish Israel had dealt honestly with him before Hamas won the election. I wish Israel had dealt honestly with him after Hamas won the election. Now as his political situation draws ever more grim, I wish Israel would deal honestly with him. A month ago Abbas made moves to assassinate all the top leadership of Hamas. Hamas had mostly better security than Fatah had assassins. Abbas has lost all control over Gaza and now hopes to cobble something together to hold on to the West Bank. His survival, I feel, depends upon how much Israel is willing to reward the Palestinian people. No gain and the man who sold out to those who cause the pain is history. Got it?

"The Jewish religion does not seek to impose its religion on other people." - Sam from Canada Understood, that is one of the things I really like. "People can choose its example if they wish." - Sam You realize just what an overwhelming fraction of the world's anti-Semites believe in religions that respect Jews as the first to obey their God? "Christianity and Islam seek to make the whole world abide by their religion." - Sam And, if you look with the least intent, in both traditions, you can find words that justifying the use of the sword to achieve conversion. It is not that I hate Jehovah's witnesses or Later day Saints. It is just that I don't feel it necessary to disillusion them. I would not wish to be so unkind. Nor would I wish to be so rude as to feel compelled to impose my beliefs upon them.

I am a representative of the Carp family, indigenous to the waters in which we live. We have had carp in these waters for many thousands of years and some of our most ancient carp have sweet tales to tell of how this whole area was governed wisely and beautifully by carp. This foreign fish called a Majed came to invade and stayed and stayed and stayed and bred unwisely and prolifically in its millions. It's not very pleasant to the palate and so it isn't invited everywhere. Now because of its great numbers it has the unconscionable cheek to think it was indigenous to the area and because we are few and selective in number that we are the insurgents. Majed fish who cares where you were spawned? These are carp waters and long may we swim.

"When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of truth and love has always won." - Mahatma, "Dutch" McGhandi "I would not put it that way. I would say that over the very long run, humanity has managed to become more humane and therefore better. Because of that, even the worst tyrants will fall when most people come to feel offended by there presence. Society is a complex system composed of individual intelligences which have an innate propensity to self-preservation. Society can exist - though not prosper - without a leader, but a leader cannot exist without society. If forced to choose between the two, opt for the society, it is a better bet" - Myhata isintha Closet

Gabe, your constant peeping into the shalom-salaam.net site is not for laughs but for getting some intelligent data that you can discuss at Talkback to impress people and make friends but regretfully, you don't know how to use this valuable information and you continue being offensive. Your sidekick, Peter, has started doing the same as yesterday he was repeating stuff from ODP's post on shalom-salaam.net about Palestinian economy. Sorry for you guys.

"General Wojciech Jaruzelski in Poland, General Augusto Pinochet in Chile; Ferdinand Mar- cos in the Philippines, Apartheid in South Africa and not forgetting the Berlin Wall and the Soviet Union." - Dutch I see men brought down by their own flaws. I see governments to criminal to deal decently with their citizens who fell when they lost the support of the middle class. Do you think that George W. Bush is in trouble now because he has oppressed the underclasses? Screw the underclass. Any government in the world can screw the underclass and the society will not have any real problem with that. When a government loses the support of the middle class, that is when the situation becomes serious.

Offerimg me war until I capitulate is extremely aggressive, but it does not constitute sexual vulgarity, as is alluding an anti Zionist Hezb supporter a rapist, or calling me a prostitute because I talked about a binational state. Have you people no better way of expressing disapproval of someone's political views than alluding to sexual habits? Despite the fact that Gabe claims his vulgar term has been widely used in Israel to describe people like me, I have never encountered it here, even among people who feel differently than me. Rely on Gabe? Riiiiiiiiiiiiight. I'm up against the wall and Gabe will save me. Riiiiiiiight. More likely I'm up against the wall and Gabe will laugh. With friends like that I don'tneed enemies.

"While I found myself agreeing with your Dwight Eisenhower statement initially --when I thought about the revolutions such as the American, French and Russian --they were all won by the so called weak. That`s the irony I found here. " - Dutch They did not cooperate. They were denied the right to cooperate by governments that refused to let them have any respect or power over their lives. Eisenhower said "cooperate." Israel is strong enough to cooperate with the Palestinians. The Palestinians have only the power to resist - which is a last resort - and therefore Eisenhower would have recognized that they could not cooperate. General Eisenhower believed that power should be used to achieve peace, not empire. "I might add -during the last 20 years most of the tyrants around the world were brought down by the weak to such as Milosevic in Yugoslavia" - Dutch You think Bill Clinton was weak? He achieved his objectives in the former Yugoslavia without any major loss to the USA.

Your lack of response to my messages is sufficient to show everyone that you operate on a basis of extreme prejudice. I won't bother with you again.

I don't give a hoot about this long analysis. I know one thing: I was born in the holy land and I should be able to live their, period. Kicking the Palestininas out based on what happened 10 thousand years ago is a bunch of carp.

But Sam, are you forgetting that Judaism/Zionism support for "Christian" America's invasion of Islamic Iraq and attempted hegemony of Islamic countries in the Middle East? Are you forgetting the continuing cry for war against Islamic Iran, coming from Zionist Israel? It is not "religion" Sam, but rather Capitalism/Globalization, and Israel is in it for the money just as much as the "Christian" countries and the "moderate" Islamic nations. I read an interesting comment today - "Israel, the land of milk and money." Kind regards.

The Jewish religion does not seek to impose its religion on other people. People can choose its example if they wish. Christianity and Islam seek to make the whole world abide by their religion.

One man's army is another's terrorist. Just as one man's freedom fighter is another's terrorist. "So called" Israel, heavily built on fascist ideology, is the occupier, and living by double standards that must not be tolerated if we are to have world peace and mutual respect. Kind regards.

"Weakness cannot cooperate with anything. Only strength can cooperate." - Dwight Eisenhower Hello Mark Lincoln, While I found myself agreeing with your Dwight Eisenhower statement initially --when I thought about the revolutions such as the American, French and Russian --they were all won by the so called weak. That's the irony I found here. I might add -during the last 20 years most of the tyrants around the world were brought down by the weak to such as Milosevic in Yugoslavia; General Wojciech Jaruzelski in Poland, General Augusto Pinochet in Chile; Ferdinand Mar- cos in the Philippines, Apartheid in South Africa and not forgetting the Berlin Wall and the Soviet Union. Hence it seem the weak are not as powerless as Eishen- hower would have us believe although the people have always won as Gandhi notes below too. Still, the world is a different place today than in Eisen- hower's time-where human rights and having the high moral ground can be the weapon of choce. Hence traditional weapons maybe fast becoming a lia- bility than an asset of the might today. How ironic. Dutch P.S. "When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of truth and love has always won. There have been tyrants and murderers and for a time they seem invincible but in the end, they always fall - think of it, ALWAYS." Mahatma Gandhi

I am shocked to hear the News, The release is OK but on the other Hand Abbas is freeing Hamas members after 19 days. Is there no danger, makes Abbas a hidden play with Israel? Abbas gets Finacial Supports an the Hamas does not get any of this Money wich is absolutely correct. I am questioning how long Abbas keeps his promise?

excuse me but which part don't I understand? Israel has no legitimacy and it cannot have it by definition. Israel will never no peace as long as it intends to be a Jewish state. The zionists have upset the middle east with their presence. After I don't know how many months this is where your dialogue is at...I don't know what has gone on in the past month but I very much doubt it has changed. You call that dialogue without vulgarity??? I call that a gentleman rapist, a polite one, a nice one. ;p hehe too embarassed to explain what vulgarity? At the end of the day it is people like Gabe you rely on whether you like it or not, and it is people like the other who would relish your being put to the wall. You can dance the issue any way you want but it is the bottom line,your dancing partner has offered you war until he gets what he wants and that is fine, calling him a putz isn't. When it's all said and done nobody cares what You or I think, you're a friggin jew errm zionist.

What I use is not vulgarity at all. why are you and Walid so fixated on sex and vulgarities. You either are not familiar enough with what I say or you are just pulling my leg. That term has no sexual connotations at all when I use it and I use it in its pure form. Perhaps your guilt prevents you from understanding the meaning. The phrase is not unlike the word Arabist but using more colourful Hebrew. Do you know that when you translate "I don't give a damn" in literal translation it does have sexual connotations?

The so-called Palestinians are not Lebanese (although some of them came from Syrian-occupied Lebanon), therefore they are not Phoenicians (Northern Canaanites). Actually, in Lebanon they are "refugees" and are not identified with the local people. ·The Southern Canaanites dwelled in the mountain region from the Golan southwards, on both sides of the Yarden and along the Mediterranean coast from the Gulf of Hayfa to Yafo, that is the Biblical Canaan. They were composed by various tribes of different stocks: besides the proper Canaanites (Phoenicians), there were Amorites, Hittites and Hurrian peoples like the Yevusites, Hivvites and Horites, all of them assimilated into the Aramean-Canaanite context. They never constituted an unified, organized state but kept within the tribal alliance system. When the first Hebrews arrived in Canaan they shared the land but did not intermarry, as it was an interdiction for Avraham's family to marry the Canaanites. Nevertheless, eleven of the twelve sons of Yakov married Canaanite women (the other son married an Egyptian), and since then, the Tribes of Israel began to mix with the local inhabitants. After the Exodus, when the Israelites conquered the Land, there were some wars between them and the Canaanites throughout the period of the Sofetim (Judges), and were definitively subdued by King David. By that time, most Canaanites were married to Israelites, others voluntarily accepted Torah becoming Israelites, others joined up in the Israelite or Judahite army. Actually, the Canaanites are seldom mentioned during the Kings' period, usually in reference to their heathen customs introduced among the Israelites, but no longer as a distinguishable people, because they were indeed assimilated into the Israelite nation. When the Assyrians overran the Kingdom of Israel, they did not leave any Canaanite aside, as they had all become Israelites by that time. The same happened when the Babylonians overthrew the Kingdom of Judah. Therefore, the only people that can trace back a lineage to the ancient Canaanites are the Jews, not the Palestinians, as Canaanites did not exist any longer after the 8th century b.c.e. and they were not annihilated but assimilated into the Jewish people. Conclusion: the Palestinians cannot claim any descent from the ancient Canaanites - if so, why not to pretend also the Syrian "occupied territories", namely, Lebanon? Why do they not speak the language of the ancient Canaanites, that was Hebrew? Because they are NOT Canaanites at all!

The Canaanites are historically acknowledged as the first inhabitants of the Land of Israel, before the Hebrews settled there. Indeed, the correct geographic name of the Land of Israel is Canaan, not "Palestine" (a Roman invention, as we will see later). They were composed by different tribes, that may be distinguished in two main groups: the Northern or Coastland Canaanites and the Southern or Mountain Canaanites. ·The Northern Canaanites settled along the coast of the Mediterranean Sea from the southeastern side of the Gulf of Iskenderun to the proximities of the Gulf of Hayfa. Their main cities were Tzur, Tzidon, Gebal (Byblos), Arvad, Ugarit, and are better known in history by their Greek name Phoenicians, but they called themselves "Kana'ana" or "Kinachnu". They did not found any unified kingdom but were organized in self-ruled cities, and were not a warlike people but rather skilful traders, seafarers and builders. Their language was adopted from their Semitic neighbours, the Arameans, and was closely related to Hebrew (not to Arabic!). Phoenicians and Israelites did not need interpreters to understand each other. They followed the same destiny of ancient Israel and fell under Assyrian rule, then Babylonian, Persian, Macedonian, Seleucian and Roman. Throughout their history the Phoenicians intermarried with different peoples that dwelled in their land, mainly Greeks and Armenians. During the Islamic expansion they were Arabized, yet, never completely assimilated, and their present-day state is Lebanon, erroneously regarded as an "Arab" country, a label that the Lebanese people reject. Unlike the Arab states, Lebanon has a western democratic-style official name, "Lebanese Republic", without the essential adjective "Arab" that is required in the denominations of every Arab state. The only mention of the term Arabic in the Lebanese constitution refers to the official language of the state, which does not mean that the Lebanese people are Arabs in the same way as the official language of the United States is English but this does not qualify the Americans as British.

Abbas is right our happiness is missing because of the other 11,000 prisoners in Israeli jails. So many of us feel this way too and it is the subject of day in cyberspace too. Nonetheless there is something terribly offensive about Israel's detention and imprisonment of Palestinians who are lawfully opposing its brutal and unlawful presence on their land in the territories (under UNSC Resolution 242 and the 4th Geneva Convention) and who dare to exercise their democratic right at the ballot box too. This is the very essence of democracy at work and make no mistake about it this is what Israel is trying to prevent today by locking up Palestinians and their representatives. The Palestinian people are no international terrorists as Israel would have us believe -- they are simply standing up for their lawful and just rights as indigenous people have done through- out the ages and they will win as Gandhi notes below. Dutch "When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of truth and love has always won. There have been tyrants and murderers and for a time they seem invincible but in the end, they always fall - think of it, ALWAYS." Mahatma Gandhi P.S. For those who wish to understand the legal limitations of Abbas' transitional government-- check out this scholarly analysis http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/882130.html

My survival depends neither upon Gabe in Toronto nor upon Karim in Lebanon. However, given the choice, I would prefer to dialogue with the person whom you term a rapist, who does not use vulgarity that he himself is too embarassed to explain to Ronnie Wolman, and asks me to explain for him. I also suggest you examine the contents of the forum and the talkbacks here to assert who is vilifying whom.

Your SS site seems to keep me relaxed as it is a constant source of comedy and a barrell of laughs exchanged by the blind, the deaf and the dumb. But a laugh an hour nevertheless. Guys do not lose your sense of humour!!!!!!!!

I intend to be there before the summer. would you like me to visit anmd comfort you. But you need no comfort as you are part of a clique that hopes to bring this on "SO THAT JEWS CAN BE SAFE" N'est pas MA CHERIE.

Truth is hurtful and so is living among murderers liers and killers and all around scum. But it must be really hurtful having to defend them

Walid Ya Walid Ibn Banot. Peter is very constrained considering the time he spent with Islamo fascist as you and Karim and Whodey and not counting an Arabist such as Bracha as well as your so called "Jews" (and I am not including Marge in that mix. As you know I was more interested in these so called Jews and I always felt that Peter was not forthright enough and well too restrained for my liking. I really like him when he can let his hair down and really tell you guys where its at.

The question that need to be asked in here, Where have you or your grandfathers been before 1948, the answer is so simple and well known by all of you Israelis. The roots of Palestinians are planted in this land since the Kannati who was the first inhibitant to this land shared with the philistines, Read the real history ignorant.

The Israelis are brilliant,not all, but many.They have much experience from their jaunt through the diapora for 2000 years and also 60 years of taking the desert and making it fertile and creating and developing new and exciting areas specially in the sciences like IT for instance. The arabs have also the same amount of energy as the Israelis.We are all Semites.Some of this energy is lost on negative approaches and negative defences and what could be a fantastic economic regional power to rank and compete with the rest of the world is left languishing in its own blood. The arabs have oil and energy and the jews have experience and energy and combined not Europe,the US or China would touch them economically. China suffered the same for many years.Infighting between groups and provinces was common before Mao and now they have found the answer.Its time for the ME to find its answer. I will write more on this tommorow

At the end of the day if and when your back is to the wall, the Gabe you villify will have more to do with your survival than the gentleman rapist you dialogue with who believes with full justification that you need to be put to the wall. This is the undeniable truth that we unfortunately do not learn from history and keep repeating. I am well aware of this and thought you were as well.

Some Arabs started calling themselves pals after 1967. They arrived in Palestine in different waves. The first to arrive came from the Arabian peninsula. In recent times, more Arabs immigrated to Palestine searching for better living conditions, given the fact that the Jewish were making the land flourish. After the 1948 war, the Red Cross and the UN registered as refugees people who have stayed there for just two years and even people who had never set foot in Israel. All of these people are the core of the self-proclaimed ?Palestinians?.

Here we go again GABE, you are showing inhuman attitude as expected.

Pollard is a traitor, and for all the wrong reasons. He's going to grow old in a US jail for his crimes. All the whingeing and whining and pestering from Zionists isn't going to make a damned bit of difference.

Well, Gabe, looks like you've been passing the time snooping around Shalom-Salaam again. It really must be important to you to keep up with what I write there, or you have a lot of time on your hands. When the IDF responds it will be to save me, not you, and no matter how many rockets fly, you can remain seated in your armchair and watch the war from far far awy, Gabe, so relax. You'll be OK. As to what to hope for or give thanks for, I really don't need your guidance, and whether or not my stars are lucky or not certainly does not depend upon my political outlook. Rockets aren't choosey, you know. But you can rest assured or two things: I will be here, as I was during 73, 82, and last year and everything in between, and you, the armchair Zionist, will be safe in your armchair in Toronto.

As you may have noticed, there is a zionist calling herself 'Hannah' who is attempting to take over my anti-zionist identity. Please don't be confused. al-Fatiha.

It is always like that whenever the truth is said people like GABE goes so crazy and return to the typical arrogance they get used on. Those victories you are talking about were achieved in the past and has already gone, The presence has a different understanding & story, The only thing that ISRAEL can do at the present is to committ a world wide war crime to achieve new victory.

The apology was foolhardy and should have never been made. The Question is "What was that "old" Hamas man doing hiding among women and children?" You want to use shields than you are responsible. Comparing the IDF/IAF to terrorists is just plain REVOLTING. there is no equivalence.

Danite MA CHERIE and a member of the birds of a feather club BEN GURION-DANITE-DOROTHY. I would strongly suggest that you stop passing GAS and BUTT OUT!!!!!!!

We the Palestinians are an occupied people by an Arab squatter horde that refuses to leave.You do have some facts skewed a bit. I thought that it was the Arabs that try to butcher and obliterate the Jews and have been doing it since at least 1920.There is only one rightful demand and that is to ask you Arab squatters to leave or be forcefully removed as your terror and Honour killings are spoiling MY LAND. GET THEE ON THE WAY TO JORDAN ---SQUATTER.

I wish you for once to say one single fact, The only thing that comes out from your lousy mouth are lies. If your skull has a sensebale brain like normal human, it wouldn't allow you to name the victim by terrorism, The real terrorist is a well known in this region, whome comes from nowhere to replace the real owner of the land will simply be defined as a terrorist. This is the basic human concept which you have nothing to do with.

I don't see how suckling is related to sex, and frankly I don't want you to explain to me how or why it would be....same goes for rape. One is the action of a baby the other is the violation of a woman. yeah yeah yeah...hehe it's okay, better to run off with the red herring Walid, we all understand what and why of your ridiculous waving and pouting over yesterdays news and the smokescreen of hiding the arab response to it. hehe tricky tricky you keep stepping on the shovel and smacking yourself in the face with it while attempting to project.

"Why was Syria so easily bought off if they were really sincere in their peace overtures?" BrachaTzfonit. Was that a rhetorical question or are you that Naive. I want you to think and note that whatever was flying over your head was nothing compared to what will happen with Syria. I hope that you recant to the same IDF boys that you have been assailing are going to be your salvation. And if the Haredi Elite units cannot do their job you may be up to your arse in Syrian missiles.Even your Arabist slant will not save you. I hope that you have your passport ready as you will in most likelyhood just pack up and leave if you get the chance. MA CHERIE you do not fool me. An Arabist and appeaser to the core. Ronnie may have not come across people like you but I have and so have other Israelis and that is why they coined that saying Z..na shel Aravim. Perhaps you can explain to Ronnie what that entails.

You mean Israel is bloodthirsty. However, it had not killed those murderers. Fascist, you say? By that logic, the jihadists of hamas, al-aqsa murderers brigades, etc. must be a beacon of democracy.

Are you aware of the situation in here, Do know that the Palestinian's land & people are occupied by Israel, or maybe the media has turned the facts upside down to make you say a nonsense. What do you want from the people who are oblitered & butchered by all kind of known & unknown barbarian attitudes. how come you asking the depressed & devestated victims to make righteous demands. That would never be the case of the Paletinians because they are the fatality & sufferer.

Walid Ya Walid Ibn Banot..You know that the IDF could have obliterated the Lebanese Vermin and Sewer Dwellers in about 2-3days if it was not for the politicos in Israel. I would suggest that you thank Elmer Fudd and Peretz for your good fortune. You also know very well that this will not be repeated. The IDF beat the collective butts of 6 combined Arab armies in 1948. and 4 combined Arab armies in 1967 and then 2 combined Arab armies in 1973 and this was even after a typical Arab sneak attack. So as you see the IDF has a track record that is unequalled. The Arab armies and their terror allies have an impressive record of O victories and that includes wars amongs themselves. One million dead in Iran-Iraq and no victor. How many dead in Lebanon ? and no victor. Egypt - Sudan Stalemate. Sunni-Shia in Iraq just a grinding war of attrition So what great Arab victories are you using as precedent. But your heroes have one thing in common in that they hide behind their women and children and even Iran used children as martyrs to clear minefields. You are way too smug as you know that if you raise your ugly head of terror again the Israeli people will insist that we crush your skulls until you cannot raise that ugly image of terror again. Your Heroes are not heroes at all but just plain murderers and vermin.Scum of the EARTH.. So STOP your support.

This really what Israel is doing since its existance with the liberation fighters against the bloodest horifying occupier. They are killing as much as they can and blocking whose remain in their fascist prison same as what have been done earlier with the jews by the German.

Hannah, rather carry on a discussion with Ronnie on who he should be inviting, why don't you carry on a debate with Tzfonit on her proposed solution at shalom-salaam.net?

I entirely agree with your analysis. The 'Hannah' in post #267 is an imposter, currently attempting to take over my well-known and cranky anti-zionist identity.

Peter, I guess you miss insulting me; all your arguments pertaining to the Palestinian/Jewish conflict somehow always end up getting a description of sorts that evolves around the subject of sex. Yesterday in your response to Tzfonit I believe, you referred to some case of rapist and today your response to me is about suckling. This should be a signal to you that there is an underlying problem there. Between Gabe talking about his Balestinians and your turning around the sex pot, you guys are in deep trouble. There is one thing I have to give to Gabe, he is more polite than you are, even at his worst.

Your false Hannah alerts have turned you into a laughing-stock. You have no proprietary claim on this name. The individual now using it has stated in a post that she is an Israeli woman named Hannah. Rather than deal with a reality which is not entirely to your liking in a way that shows some class, you have reacted like a petulant child, engendering only ridicule for yourself, an outcome you could easily have avoided.

Jews here especially the Leftist Humanist ones have no concept of PEACE. To them peace means putting Israel in a vulnerable position to be overrun at a later day. 1948,1967,1973 and the terror in between and the terror afterwards have no meanings just water off a ducks back. Most will even tell you that if we only negotiate and give more back than the nightmare will end.DELUSIONAL CLAPTRAP. The Arabs want Israel Gone and Jews either as Slaves or Dead. The rest is just plain poppycock.

"Why was Syria so easily bought off if they were really sincere in their peace overtures?"BRACHA/TZFONIT I cannot believe that anyone on earth can be that naive unless this is a rherorical question. What is your answer to that? Keep in mind that if there is a war with Syria you will really understand what flying rockets over your head means with all the weapons that Syria is acquiring and you just hope that the BOYS of the IDF that you have been villyfying for so long are up to the job and just hope that the HAREDI ELITE UNITS are able to neutralize the Syrians quickly. And then thank your lucky stars that the Holan was not abandoned and the Jews expelled. Your ONE STATE solution will not become reality but you may be alive.

Your stupidity has no bounds. Without restraints the IDF can and will shred your heroes Hizbulla and Hamas in 3 days tops. So thank Elmer Fudd and Peretz because a new leadership is coming that will not play any games with you.JUst as we did in 1967, 1973 and 1982 your so called man with tremble before our BOYS.If I were you I would not gloat as it will not last. The IDF proved itself and did it without hiding among women and children and withoout having to dress in womans clothing other than to go behind enemy lines as in Algiers.There is no operation that the Arabs can be proud of. There is no operation with glory unless they kill millions of their co-religionists or unarmed civilians as in Iraq today. TLets not forget the uncivil war in Lebanon.

Talk sense and I'll talk to you. Spout propaganda and I'll sneer.

"The deaths of the sleeping children in Gaza was regretted and apologised for, Clickfool" The apologies and regrets that came from Israel after the Gaza slaughter were a cynical and predictable Israeli attempt at damage limitation. Nothing more. The Israelis KNEW their 1-tonne bomb would kill countless innocents in the apartment complex, yet they went ahead. There was no mistake, no error - the Israelis were prepared to butcher 9 sleeping children and other innocent civilians to kill one old Hamas man. This tells you everything you need to know about the Israeli State. It is evil beyond imagining. By the way, Hannah, if you would like me to say that Israel and the Palestinian resistance fighters are as evil as each other, the two sides of the same revolting coin, I'd be happy to agree with you.

Hello, Alicia. I am afraid you may be right. I don?t trust Abbas either. When Israel left Gaza, he praised the suicide bombers, who had made it possible. He doesn?t seem a moderate to me.

You equated the Palestinians living in their homes in historical Palestine with the settlers. Those Palestinians are the indiginuous people living in their original homes. The settlers are squaters who are living on occupied land against international law.

I have nothing about Arabs surviving as long as they respect others. The now so-called pals have been always trying to drive the Jews out of the ME and, by doing so, they bring suffering upon others and upon themselves. Again, not all the members of terrorist organizations have blood in their hands but they cooperate with their comrades who do.

Why limit it to the Mark incarnation, try the older ones, Ben Gurion or Judge Judy or the newest one just being born, just plain Joe of Tejas?

Holding on to this Weisglass story like a babe suckling a nipple.....despite the fact that this story came out ONE FULL YEAR before disengagement. How did the arabs react, what did they do ensure that the predicted immediate future wouldn't occur??? Oh yeah, hamas made a declaration that they wouldn't accept disengagement, they wouldn't respect institutions in gaza yadi yada. I can hera it coming...can't you hear it... yeah yeah yeah do the occupation shuffle. The Arabs had ample time to react and they did, biting the nipple they suckle on, while Walid closes his eyes and suckles in contentment.

You are an inspiration to moderates. Please keep posting. I enjoy your balanced and "sane" views. Sorry that you have to share your name Hannah, with the evil force that squats here.

"Heiden concluded that it was not Rothschild, the capitalist, but Karl Marx, the socialist, who kindled Hitler`s anti-Semitism." - Mimi Quite true. And to put it in the context of the times, Fascism was a movement financed by industrialists in many nations, which utilized fascist legions of many colored shirts, as strikebreaking forces and to terrorize the left - which is to say the supposedly "Jewish led" labor movement. This was even seen in Palestine in the 1920s and 30s in the strike breaking of Jabotinisky's followers. Jabotinisky was not a Fascist, he was close to many, many of his followers were Fascists, and he was seen by prominent Fascists as one of them. Curiously one prominent Fascist - in the 1920s THE prominent Fascist, Mussolini was not an anti-Semite, though later when he was dependent upon Hitler he adopted policies Hitler wished.

"But then, `moderate` means compliant to the wishes of America, doesn`t it?" - Maureen Ann Not to myself. Moderate means 'one who moderate views or belongs to a group who favors a moderate course or program.' It also implies one who someone who observes reasonable limits. America prefers right wing dictators, for example Musharraf or Mubarak, or outright despotisms such as Saudi. It seldom actually approves of moderate men, or moderate nations.

The deaths of the sleeping children in Gaza was regretted and apologised for, Clickfool. Not so the deliberate murder of Israeli innocents I mentioned in my previous message. Condemn these atrocities and I will regard you in a different light. Until then I have nothing but disdain for your double standards.

Abbas is doing what he can, which isn't much. He never had control of Fatah, much less Palestine. He now is in a very precarious position and is not being given any substantial support by those who had promised it. He has seized power, but that power is over half a nation, with his own party humiliated and weakened, and with no prospect of being able to risk an honest election. He will risk an election, but Israel has locked up lots of Hamas legislators and effective participation by Hamas is impossible, and thus the election will be a sham. Abbas spent most of his time in office thwarted by an Israeli government which was intent upon a "unilateral" solution to the problem. Olmert would engage in no honest negotiations then, and now that Abbas has become a client of the US, there is no need for Olmert to engage in honest negotiations with him. He been rewarded with gestures. With a little luck, he might survive. If not, I cannot see a man as moderate as he taking over.

Your dream is not mine either. I call for no punitive sanctions. I want honest peace on the fairest possible terms. I don't want to give either side gifts or to pander to anyone, either the Jews or the Arabs. Can't you all see that the goal is a peaceful settlement of our problems and not the realisation of political theories. Theories are for theorists in an arena where nothing can be tested. We are human beings living our lives together and when I read the comments by Israeli Arabs I'm heartened and know that there's a future for us. I hope that the Palestinians understand that Israel is a country that's staying here and that the Jews in the West Bank at present could function in the same way as the Arabs in Israel do, as full members of a developing society, contributing something to keep their society stable.

Gabe, you were just telling Hannah about the might of the IDF. The IDF is like you Gabe, full of hot air, always flexing your brain to intimidate the girls here, the IDF is only valiant in their Merkavas when facing little children that are armed with nothing but pebbles. When they had to face the real men of Hizbullah last July, they wilted away and all of them became cowardly Gabes running home crying to their mommas. Over 80 of the IDF's supposedly invincible Merkavas were put out of business as were 2 of Israel's 5 ultra modern destroyers. It was Israel's IAF from the relative safety of 50,000 feet that repeated the IDF's tactics of bombing civilians and their structures that really hurt Lebanon. Next time keep your IDF busy fighting children as this is all it can do and just send in your IAF because Hizbullah has a surprise party planned for it too this time.

Yes you've said that over and over about the 2002 hit, which Israel apologised for. But your condemnation is worth nothing if it's not fair and two sided. Condemn the arab strikes I listed, for which there was no apology and I'll begin to see you as fair and human. Otherwise.. the conclusion is obvious.

"Tosefta/Mark Lincoln feeds himself lines and bats them back as sweetly as you please" - Hannah Why not invite Mark Lincoln to argue with Peter the Great Fantasizer? Hannah will think the argument is with me and all will be satisfied. The only problem I can see: Mark is much more polite than I am. Instead of telling Peter what his fantasies are worth, Mark would rather die laughing. The debate will die with him, and then I will have nobody to face me in the "mirror".

Alberto, let me tell you how I see an exchange on this talkback. Suppose I state a position on some issue. (Of course, it can be you doing it, but I will make the example close to the reality before us.) 1. Suppose you have some critical comment to make about my position. You make it, and then it is my duty/need to reply. 2. The next step is up to you. If you complain again, I have to reply again. 3. The next step is up to you. If you complain again, I have to reply again. 4. The next step is up to you. If you complain again, I have to reply again. 5. The next step is up to you. If you complain again, I have to reply again. . . I hope you see the picture. You should stop at some point. Ideally, we end no later than step 2, but this is not your scheme. You keep beating the issue, hoping to go all the way to the resolution of the entire conflict. But from my perspective, I have dealings with all kinds of people, and issues are resolved (or not) and get clarified after many discussions. For this we need your cooperation. You can do it by limiting your original complaint to something that is relevant to my particular post (#84). Example: If I say that Abbas fantasizes here, you can complain that Israel should not deal with this fantasizer. Better don't bring in Arafat and Hamas. I would then answer that Olmert is a bigger fantasizer. Then if you say that I contradict myself I will answer that there is no contradiction. (Indeed, there is none.) I might even explain that you can't blame the Palestinians in such a case. This will bring us to a happy end. But if you expect to get to the root of the Israel/Palestine conflict, you will end up being unhappy with my answer..

Hannah, If your interpretation of my plan is that it is explosive, dangerous and panders to my conscience, I fear that you have read other people's presentations of it and not my own. I have consistently said that a one-state solution must emerge only after years of living together in a two-state framework, and not out of coercion in the present-day situation, and that any solution must ensure the continued Jewish character of Israel. If that is selfish and dangerous, I fail to see why. You are, however, correct in that my plans are geared to my conscience. As an Israeli living here, my conscience dictates that anything I propose will have repercussions upon the future of the Jewish people and must therefore place our survival even in the far distant future as top priority. My hopes for the future are based on the fact that a demographic time bomb is already ticking and it is our duty today to ensure a solution to the conflict that will not allow that implosion to occur.

You hit the nail right on the head. But Bracha/Tzfonit does not get it and calls for solidarity (with her of course).I have no ideas and therefore the status quo will have to do and did just fine until Oslo when The Labour government brough terror to Israels door. That must be a lesson. This and Gaza and Lebanon should have been a wake up call but alas they were not It is necessary to wait for the Arabs to come to their senses and in the meantime fight terror with all the might of the IDF. Not pinprich here and there but with force and vigour. This terror and no reply is sapping the power of the young man of the IDF and must be reversed. There must also be a price and that price must be loss of land the more terror the less we would be prepared to give and starting with Gaza. Declare buffer zones in the evacuated settlements and if necessary annex them sans the population.

Any agreement made with an infidel is not binding..... no matter what solemn documents you make these Moslems or any Moslem sign, Israel! So sorry to tell you this. Let us not forget that 66% of the Pals favour continued attacks against Israeli civilians. Remember that in Sep.-Oct 2001 in Gaza City, Pals put on a re-enactment of the suicide bombig of the Sbarro Pizzeria in Jerusalem, Aug.9, 2001. The Pal-authority-bomber and 15 persons were blown up into pieces, of whom 7 were children and 4 teen-agers. The exhibition included fake body parts to add more "realism" to rejoice over. GO study the Koran, Israeli politicians and learn to know the Arab mind-set! Develop your politics from there!

It is a well known concept that when it gets too hot get out of the kitchen. There is no occupation other than by the Arab hordes throughout the ME. Jews have returned home and want their properties back. In a defensive war in 1967 they accomplished that but the Arab squatters refuse to leave and under any law they must be evicted. I hear that Jordan has lots of so called Balis and they would fit in quite nicely. We are not taliking prisoners but just plain old murdering or wannabee murdering criminals. Kim dear we are being very charitable with your ilk as you are much worse as a people and as a society. Do not fear progress. But as I said at the beginning get out of the Kitchen as there are another 22 Paradises awaiting your arrival with baited breath.

problems , exchange or recourse.

Perhaps this blog entry, posted by Martin Lewis at Huffingington Post on 2 Aug. 2006 but dated by him 2 Aug. 1944 (for reasons that will be clear), will give clickfool some perspective on these matters, or if not him (given the deranged fixity of his views), then others. "Fury continues to mount worldwide about the senseless loss of civilian life in Germany caused by England's callous bombing of German cities icluding Berlin, Hamburg and Dresden. As of today, many innocent German women and children have died in these utterly brutal bombing missions. Of course England has a right to defend itself. But it should ensure that its responses are proportionate." What the determined Israel bashers on Talkback try to do is deliberately confuse the horrors inherent in war with the moral culpability of a single country, Israel, engaged in war. It is a tactic that only the morally corrupt Israel bashers here would even think to entertain.

Tsfonit has a plan tailored for a single generation only, after which demographics take over and the Jewish state implodes. She presents it very prettily and perhaps it was prettily presented to her but her plan is explosive and dangerous and rather selfish. She is pandering to her own conscience and not thinking of future generations. Give me a workable pretty dream, Ronnie and I might agree to support you.

Ronnie, one of the things I have learned in the past few months is that Jews may have opinions that are as different as night and day, but most can be tolerant of others because in the end we all want the same thing: a strong and secure State of Israel living in peace with her neighbors. We simply have different opinions of how to go about it. I believe that the people here who brand my dream of the future of the Middle East a nightmare and me every name from A to Z are merely afraid and intolerant of an opinion that is different from their own, and are so afraid of hearing it or that others may agree that they attack and de-legitimize it and me to no end. That intolerance and hatred of fellow Jews here is what plays into the hands of our enemies, whose greatest weakness is lack of unity. Our strength must be to display solidarity, particularly on a public forum such as this one. So you have dreams that are bigger than mine, Ronnie? Let's hear them!

Ronnie Wolman, Another top Israeli academic and government adviser, Arnon Soffer said in an interview: First of all, the fence is not built like the Berlin Wall. It's a fence that we will be guarding on either side. Instead of entering gaza, the way we did last week, we will tell the Palestinians that if a single missile is fired over the fence, we will fire 10 in response. And women and children will be killed, and houses will be destroyed. After the fifth such incident, Palestinian mothers won't allow their husbands to shoot Kassams, because they will know what's waiting for them. Second of all, when 2.5 million people live in a closed-off gaza, it's going to be a human catastrophe. Those people will become even bigger animals than they are today, with the aid of an insane fundamentalist Islam. the pressure at the border will be awful. It's going to be a terrible war. So, if we want to remain alive, we will have to kill and kill and kill. All day, every day. If we don't kill, we will cease to exist. the only thing that concerns me is how to ensure that the boys and men who are going to have to do the killing will be able to return home to their families and be normal human beings; the Palestinians will be forced to realize that demography is no longer significant, because we're here and they're there. And then they will begin to ask for "conflict management" talks--not that dirty word "peace." Peace is a word for believers, and I have no tolerance for believers--neither those who wear yarmulkes nor those who pray to the God of peace. [] Both are dangerous. Unilateral separation doesn't guarantee "peace"--it guarantees a Zionist-Jewish state with an overwhelming majority of Jews;. http://www.ccmep.org/2004_articles/palestine/120904_carnivores_and_the_ivy_league_ap.htm

Ronnie Wolman, perhaps the rockets were a surprise to you but they surely were not to the Israeli government. Haaretz had an article on it a full year in advance of the pullout and it was declared then that the ?disengagement? was purely a gimmick to secure the WB settlements. It was said back in 2004 by a top Sharon and Israeli government advisor Dov Weisglas to Haaretz, ?When you freeze [the peace] process, you prevent the establishment of a Palestinian state, and you prevent a discussion on the [Palestinian] refugees, the borders and Jerusalem. Effectively, this whole package called the Palestinian state, with all that it entails, has been removed indefinitely from our agenda. And all this with authority and permission. All with a [US] presidential blessing and the ratification of both houses of Congress." http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/pages/ShArt.jhtml?itemNo=485929

I mention the 2002 Gaza slaughter so often on Talkback, Hannah (and I notice, incidentally, that no-one has rushed to defend this crime) because this was the moment when the scales fell away from my eyes and for the first time I saw the true nature of the State of Israel. Nothing I have seen or read in the intervening five years has changed my view that Israeli is an evil, criminal entity, unconcerned with the lives of everyone but Israelis.(And here I deliberately have chosen to use the word "Israelis" rather than "Jews" because it quite obviously has no interest in how its actions might affect the lives of Jews in the Diaspora).

This was on the Haaretz wire... The last word is Ahmandinejad!!!! And YOU think we are all crazy?????????

As for peter.He has a brilliant mind and can articulate the whole deal.He makes great sense to me.I would like someone though to convince Peter that things CAN be different. For me its why take a chance? Israel has built a wonderful country.At the time of its reformation in 1948 there was a lot going on in the area infact the whole world.It was just after World War II and the world itself was being reformed.Even in the ME there were many people thrown out of countries in the area in favour of others and today only Israel is pointed out.Israel has built a great society and can help change the whole ME in a positive way if they will let it. Fox talks about his arab friends saying how much better Israel is than those around it. Israel turned the desert into forests and can change to ME into the most incredible economic power in the world but the limited rulers all over the ME wont allow it.They are stuck.If Bracha has a dream,my dream is even bigger.

Well it was a good idea at the time.I know exactly the way Tosefta is and I agree to an extent Hannahs view of him but he is also a very bright human being and so is peter.They both know a lot about the history and are both very sure about their views.I wondered if I could actually have moved them at all (I would have needed help on the history) but I would have not let them stick to their positions and would have encouranged them each attacking each others.Actually with Tosefta its a little different for Tosftas positions cannot be proved.It can be tested ONLY in theory but not in reality.In theory he has a point but in reality the dangers are too great.His suppositions rely on a stability that doesnt exist and his answer to that would be Israels deterrence is great. If we take Gaza for instance and those that were shoved out their homes there and the subsequent rockets,we can see that the result was that we couldnt guarantee what the arabs would actually do after.

I must say even with all the mudslinging there is a lot to be learned.The biggest thing we have learned is that we are not doing our talking with guns.We can complain and argue about the actual situation forever but we talk and there is an energy there,sometimes negative,but an energy.If everyone talked things would eventually work out.But when one kills anothers son and the retailiation is the same,that the others son is killed too,what has been accomplished?There is no doubt all the players here think a little differently.Tzfonit/Bracha has ideas and ideals,they are not bad.Here we hear both sides,Hannah and peter have negative views of her dreams.Jews and Arabs cant even talk that well together and here we have Tzfonit thinking that we can have a Garden of Eden between us.But that is not bad.We all should only be so lucky.We cant even get 2 Jews or 2 Arabs or one of each to agree on Talkback,is that ideal??? and you are all worried about Tzfonit? Jeez I didnt even mention Gabe :-)

Nine sleeping children accidentally and one multiple murderer ONCE. DOZENS of times: children on their way to school DELIBERATELY. People shopping in an outdoor market. Babies in their beds. Guests at a celebration. A religious meal disturbed. A gathering at a discotecque exploded. A peaceful pizzeria. A university cafe named after a famous singer. A lunchtime restaurant in Tel Aviv. Buses, buses, buses and busses. Why is it that you see one side only? Monocular vision? Determination to be right?

Pots and kettles.

Welcome to the forum. It's exciting seeing your name in print, isn't it? On an Israeli/Jewish newspaper. What fun! Know a lot about Zionists, Kim? Cause u sure sound like an uneducated wannbe on life in the Middle east. Just to keep u in the loop. poor Ramzi has tunnel vision and has been very selective about his facts: ie the pals are hopelessly unreliable, macho minded depots trying to come to terms with the 21st century. You really should try to broaden your knowledge base before u spout meaningless nothings.

Mate you couldn't even organise a f... in a brothel if you tried, let alone an ashram. PS Interested to hear that clog-dancing had made it into an ashram. Or do u not know you suffer from incongruous malapropisms? Hope saturday is treating u nice. Any word on AJ yet? Articles, memoirs etc: eg "I ate with the Doghmush"???

"I notice you didn`t answer my question about Israel`s willingness to butcher sleeping 9 children in Gaza to kill one old Hamas man." Sorry about the spelling error in the headline: meant to have written "foul".... Clucky, see u didn't answer my question about the murder in broad daylight of an innocent civillian on the underground in London. Shot 7 times; by the brave english police. And yes, you're right. he was innocent and unarmed.

Poor thing. This arab-israeli conflict has got u inot a hopeless muddle, hasn't it? Are Stern and irgun the only names u know?? Hear are a couple of others to file away for some (hopefully) more erudite musings about things u know little about: Lekhi, Etzel Do u now suggest that Rabin was a murderer? Is that the guiness talking, or is it something u picked up in the pub? Do you mean the same Rabin who won the 1994 Nobel peace prize? Who was gunned down becuae he sought peace. I'm not sure I understand your confusion on this. Wasn't Arafat also awrded at the same time? So, if rabin is a murderer (in guiness-speak), then arafat is atriple muderer? Is that what u r saying? Or can't u remeber what u were saying? Better sleep it off.

Well said Ramzi, I could not agree with you more about the prisoners and the occupation, as well as your observations about these talk back forums. It always astounds me the level of rancid racism and vicious vitrole that spews from the keyboards of so many Zionists. And then they have the audacity to accuse the Palestinians of engendering a culture of hatred!

"You correctly use the word "fool" in your name..you do the word justice." We're nearly at the prize-winning 2000 mark, Connie (you remember - there's a prize for the 2000th Talkback poster to wittily comment that my self-chosen author name is appropriate), But we're not quite there yet. Try again in a week or so's time. The prize is two weeks of free English clog dancing lessons, here at my ashram in sunny Sussex.

I notice you didn't answer my question about Israel's willingness to butcher sleeping 9 children in Gaza to kill one old Hamas man.

Ronnie don't bother to invite Tosefta to dialogue with peter. Tosefta only looks in the mirror to talk to his narcissistic image who is the only one who he really approves of and who lauds him with undeserved praise daily. Tosefta/Mark Lincoln feeds himself lines and bats them back as sweetly as you please, calming down his doubting ego and his troubled mercenary soul.

Hitler's anti-Semitism was a political anti-Semitism. In 1997, David North wrote about Anti-Semitism, Fascism & the Holocaust in his article "A critical review of Daniel Goldhagen's Hitler's Willing Executioners": According to the German anti-fascist writer Konrad Heiden, Hitler's demonic obsession with the Jews was a by-product of his hatred for the proletariat and for socialism. In "Mein Kampf", Hitler explained how his conversion to anti-Semitism flowed from his encounters with the labor movement. It was among the workers that he first came into contact with Jews and, to his amazement, he discovered that many Jews played a prominent role in the labor movement. Suddenly, the Jewish question became clear to him...He was not repelled by the labor movement because it was led by Jews; Jews repelled him because they led the labor movement. Heiden concluded that it was not Rothschild, the capitalist, but Karl Marx, the socialist, who kindled Hitler's anti-Semitism.

israel has been doing to the palis, what hamas now did to the fatah... so what else is new. 50000 dead palis in 40 years.... its supposed to be part of the " searing defeat on the pali mind" exercise

dutch - if your heart lies with them why dont you put your money where your mouth is and join them. After all you did say that you were going to offer yourself as a human shield. So after that grandious statement joining them could be the least that you do.

Class, supremacist thinking and living by the sword while forever holding a grudge with intention of vendetta, by both sides is the problem. The fact remains, Israel is the occupier. There can be no peace between the Palestinians and Israel because Israel is the imperial foot of America-laying the boot in to keep the 'underclass' in order. I am comprehending what you say about Egypt, Mark. The poor in that country today are treated as unworthy, undeserving of fresh clean drinking water etc. But then, 'moderate' means compliant to the wishes of America, doesn't it? Kind regards.

4.If u do consider Palestinian refugee Population part Jordan Population that sounds fine 2 m ! But I still believe Abdula don?t want them to stay ! Well that?s between u and Abdula Jr. Finally, My profuse apologies ! Egypt is entirely entitled to disregard Art 2 of the Pact concerning meaningless matters such as: Health and Social Welfare of Gazans P.S. Time 4 u 2 remember Rav Feinstein story, u seem 2 fit into baal gaavah definition !

they did not murder jews!probably they hanged around with the wrong crowd[terrorists?]..... I hope all of them will go straight?

What exactly should abbas be doing, with whom, why and when.You know tell us.Thanks

Since Gabe cannot understand the words coming out of your mouth he needs to put those words there that he can understand.He has trouble with reality and so twists it ot his level.It is a usual feature of his commentary, in short he answers the voices in his brain that reading one or two words of others set off.Regards

3.What can I say ?No way 2 beat your supreme mind! Israel missed a great opportunity by not dealing with Hamas. Those settlers ! ! Wait a minute! Who r d settlers ? According to Al-Risalah,May 21,2007:The resistance threatened for more: Al-Qassam rockets devastate settlements and force its residents to leave! Sderot residents r settlers ! Those Sderot Guys ! Why don?t they leave Sderot ? Wait again ! I just watched a Al-Aqsa TV broadcast from March 2007: 'The day is near when we will leave Gaza.' That?s it, it?s lost, Tel Aviv is gone. They are defeated, they have no words left? When this process will end, they will become a state with no ability, helpless. They established a state to protect the Jews from death and murder.If death and murder chase them in Tel Aviv,Jerusalem,Netanya and everywhere among them, then they will say:'What am I doing here? I founded a state to protect me from death, and if death chases me,I want to flee .. Sorry Tosefta ! According to Hamas time 4 2 flee

Spare us your vituperative rantings...funny you can count on one hand the Israeli's you call terrorists. May I remind you that Begin and the Irgun gave notice to the British that a bomb would be coming their way..as you know Labhras The King David Hotel was British headquarters. not a civilian pizza parlor.The Brits were to cocky to take heed and suffered the consequences. Many Jews were hung by the British..can you name the British responsible for this? And can you name the tens of thousands of islamo/fascists responsible for dastardly terror attacks all over the world...killing innocent men,women and children for no reason other than they are infidels? You cannot even try to hide your hate...maybe a stiff shot of Irish whiskey will help calm you down a bit.

1.Sorry I confused u with Tosefta from 84 post who did state "Is Abbas fantasizing all by himself, or did Bush share some fantasies with him? When does he expect Israel to release more prisoners for him" How dare he ? Accusing Abbas to fantasize ! 2.U R absolutely correct ! It make perfect sense Hamas should continue to bomb Kerem Shalom . Of course they definitely should not accept humanitarian aid or let troubled Gazans get back from Egypt. As, at the end they will force Israel to open Rafah ! Ops ! Israel cant open Rafah ! Egypt doesn?t want to open it ! EU is unwilling to take part in Rafah checking without Abbas agreement ! It doesn?t matter ! U r right Who am I 2 change Hamas personality/religion. They should continue to stick to their covenant . Which you and all Israel is fully informed about !

Ronnie Wolman, I wish you and Peter success on your forum. I understood when you mentioned how you liked to carry on conversation in depth because I still remember your very long and serious ones with Whodey on shalom-salaam.net in the same manner as Bracha has been holding one since 3 months with Karim and fighting his adamant holding out for the right of return for the Palestinians. She has brought Karim a little closer to her Zionist thinking and he has done likewise in making her understand a bit better the Arabic concerns for the refugees. I wish you and Peter the best for your new forum.

I never stated that you destroyed Shalom-Salaam singlehandedly, even though that's your fantasy. Last week, I asked why you were still attacking the site when you had gotten what you wanted, with both Margie and Peter now off the site. There's quite a difference there, and I suggest that you do not jump to conclusions about what I say or don't say.

Who the hell do you think you are to impose your rather ethno centric views on loyalty to others of a very different reality.In Canada it is not a sin for greek to be concerned with greece and use the term "ours" to refer to Greeks over there, etc etc etc.But in the racist based ethno states of europe this concept is foreign to you.You must ahve nothing to do in life or have some serious persoanl issues with jews to try to lord it over us with your nit picking hen clucking nonsense.

Why is it so difficult to understand that many thousands of people have the name Hannah.Stop taking yourself so seriously...no one else does.

me that you are so anally retentive that u keep old posts on people (eg Danite)... :) You need to get out more. Perhaps when the big heat of the day passes..... Are my posts under 'S' for Star or 'D' for David?? What? U haven't kept my previous posts?? I am deflated. Crushed. But u r still a pompous git, full of hubris, your age notwithstanding. If u dub Danite an apologist then u cannot escape the fact that u r an intellectually weak revisionist.

Fear is a very strong emotion , Jews have experienced it for 2000 years. So it is quite understandable. You have lived in a fairly sanitized world as have my children. Yes you & they have seen the hatred but not to my or my parents extent or even Peters parents extent.1948, 1967, and 1973 are still vivid to me as are the other attempts at annihilation and terror perpetrated by the Arabs. Now we are at the intimidation phase but we are not learning anything that history teaches us and are still thinking in that Western oriented millieu that we have learned in our respective countries.The Arabs are not free agents bur beholden to their Mullas and Clans. That is their sole Fixation and if you think you can change them: DREAM ON IN TECHNICOLOR. Show me any Arab effort to reach out to JEWS.

still trotting out that same line from way back when??? Rise and shine :) How do you reconcile English police killing an innocent civillian on the tubes shooting him seven times. In front of passengers. They erred? Thought he MIGHT be a terrorist? Weren't sure? Wanted to vouchsafe national security? And the Australian doctor now wrongfully accused of giving his sim card to an alleged terrorist?? It's interesting you KNOW that the Israelis "knew for sure..." Did they consult you b4 the operation? Thought not. Looks like until the Muslims in England don't do you a fundamentalist "Canary Wharf" again (remember that,cobber, or were u still in school?), and force you to negotiate with them, then perhaps u may realise what you've been championing. Till then, enjoy English bungling and better planned suicide attacks ON ENGLISH SOIL... Aj been a bit quiet recently; busy writing his memoirs "I ate with the Doghmush" is he? Patheti

It is precisely the fact that we want to negotiate with people that tell us over and over again that they want to kill us, enslave us that gets me so upset. I can understand AntiSemites and Arabs and their apologists but I cannot for the life of me understand why Jews would be that gullible. For a number of years in the 1930's Jews saw what was going on (in a civilized society) yet they ignored it. Now we see shades of that era and we have a strong army to defend yet we do nothing other than appease and ignore. Neither Gaza nor Lebanon has shaken our determination to follow a suicidal path. If the Arabs won in 1948 or in 1967 or in 1973 there would have been no Israel and most likely very few Jews alive. Why do we not learn from our mistakes?

Over half a century ago, President - and General - Dwight Eisenhower succinctly expressed why there can be no peace between Israel and Palestine. His statement was very subtle. Yet he understood the problem so well that he was using the position he stated in an attempt to bring an end to the Cold War. He was replaced by a President intent upon waging the cold war instead of ending it. As a result the cold war became a hot war in Vietnam which Eisenhower eschewed, and took another 30 years to end. "Weakness cannot cooperate with anything. Only strength can cooperate." - Dwight Eisenhower The Palestinians are incredibly weak, and Israel is overwhelmingly strong. Only Israel can make peace in the middle east.

"Arafat was not responsible for the Occupation. He did not create the mess. He could have shortened it perhaps. He missed an opportunity. Israel missed its opportunities too." - Tosefta Certainly. The next to last chance for peace, Arafat was not willing to give up the comfortable life of graft and corruption he had which was based upon eternal warfare. Barak was not willing to be assassinated by some Likud thug. So there was no peace. The last time, Abbas wanted to negotiate, and Israel (Olmert) did not want peace. The only thing which is changed right now is that Elliott Abrams efforts finally suborned Abbas and Fatah. They attempted a coup intended to destroy Hamas in it's Gaza stronghold and that coup failed miserably. Now the only party with the strength to wage Peace is Israel and I see no willingness on the part of the Olmert government to do what is necessary. Thus we have hollow gestures, too little to help Abbas, and which risk freeing terrorists for nothing.

"Abbas wants his terrorists." - Brod Abbas would like to live until next year. He needs to deliver SOMETHING to the Palestinians to justify selling out to the US and Israel. He took the graft, he took the arms, he needs to show he did it for the Palestinians instead of just himself.

"Palestinians have suffered fear for 100 years." - Maureen Ann for the first half of the 20th century, the people who oppressed Palestinians were absentee landlords, mostly from Egypt. "The will to survive and retaliation/reaction are now being seen in the form of "terrorism." - Maureen Ann What you sow, you reap. Israel has sown terror and brutality for the last 30 years. It is reaping the whirlwind. But then so have the Palestinians, and so are they. "the Israeli government itself has said it is releasing prisoners "without blood on their hands." - Maureen Ann Ok, prisoners with just spots of something that looks like blood. The Olmert regime needs to spin the situation as best it can. "World T.V. news has shown the terror inflicted by Israel upon Palestinians and Lebanese people." - Maureen Ann I have seen some pretty gruesome examples of blasted Israeli restaurants. "Journalists and peace activists have also been on Israel`s hit list!" - Maureen Ann No question about that

You had a police station in Jericho, with Palestinian prisoners entrusted to you by Israel: murderers with blood on their hands. They were allowed to come and go as they pleased. It's not sovereignty and freedom that your leaders lack. It's responsibility and seriousness. And the 'occupation'? I call it self defense to keep the murderers away from our children. Aren't you afraid for your children with the bomb manufacturers busy in their backyard workshops and all those 'industrial accidents'?

So Alan Johnston was kidnapped by Israel? I do have to keep up with my reading. I hadn't noticed that.

Alberto, I will reply, but that's it on this subject. Too simple for an endless discussion: 1. "Olmert explained that he had to encourage the public. I think Abbas is a lesser fantasizer." - Tosefta "let?s b honest ,this is not the first time [Abbas] ?fantasize? by making promises on issues that he does not have ANY influence !" - Alberto Alberto, do you see any contradiction in what I say or what you say? 2. Opening the Rafah crossing is essential to the Gazans. I explained to you why. You want them to change their entire personality/religion for an alternative way instead of the simple way they have chosen to open Rafah. 3. "Bingo ! Arafat is the one who created the whole mess !" - Alberto Arafat was not responsible for the Occupation. He did not create the mess. He could have shortened it perhaps. He missed an opportunity. Israel missed its opportunities too. 4. Jordan's population is also increasing rapidly, Boruch Hashem/Allah. They are also Arab. And I am not aware of any breach by Egypt of an Arab League decision concerning Gaza. The End

Abbas wants his terrorists. This shows that he is a leader of terrorists. Israel should say NO to the terrorists.

If I may intervene. I do believe that Tzfonit is sincere in her wishes for a just society but the way she goes about proposing to implement it shows a limited ability to imagine the impact on future generations. Judaism and Zionism aren't flowers that bloom overnight and then fade. The way they are planted and nurtured has to take many tomorrows into account. Her wish to include her Arab friends at home is laudable but should be planned in a more pragmatic fashion.

I believe I can safely say that she has no concerns or worries about me, and what's more I can comfortably say that she would feel relief at having me at her back. I have no issues with her stating and giving her points of view even though I disagree with many of them. Diversity is our strength, and the ability to change and alter our ways during resolution is also our strength. She is very well aware of my thoughts on this matter. However with that being said, civil discourse with one who smiles and says "then we will be at war forever" until you accept your place, which is a minority within an arab world.... well that doesn't strike me as civil discourse. Those words tell me one thing, let's do it now on our terms while we can instead of waiting for them. As in '48, if they succeed, there wouldn't be any discussion of "occupied" Israel, nor would there be any mourning. We do it now and wipe the map with him.

If Abbas institutes a satisfactory prison system and offers solid guarantees I'm sure that the Israeli authorities will be delighted to be relieved of the burden of all those Palestinian criminals and murderers. I continue to be amazed that anybody considers that we want to have the headache of the territories and their administration.

Walid because I thought we needed some kind of inclusive forum I wanted to start a forum on a smaller scale on Yahoo.I saw a Tosefta and Peter having an ongoing converstaion at their level,Gabe and others perhaps slogging it out,some friendlier conversations.It was just an idea.I had nothing against the Shalom-Salaam site,Infact I enjoyed it when I had the time.I wanted somewhere we could write and then come back more like individual conversations. I found though in general that people dont change their views but I have analysed peoples views and at the bottom is fear.Fear of change. Its not surprising.Israel really has something to lose.I feel the Palestinians have already lost.I dont mean to the Jews but by their leaders incompetence and reliance of terror. The people are the victims but not from Israel. I really wanted to get to the bottom of the situation in converstations.It cannot be done.Everyone is fixed.

Say there big guy, that sure sounds like a rosy post by you. Unfortunately, Abbas has been tried before with the Fatah crew and none of those lovely things you enumerate were even close to being achieved. However, those sure are nice thoughts. Where have you been? I haven't seen you kicking them in the knees (and other places) lately? Regards.

Yeah, right! Vidkun Abbas is going to stand up to Olmert just as Vidkun Quisling stood up to Hitler in 1940.

The will to survive and retaliation/reaction are now being seen in the form of "terrorism." Another thing KUTW the Israeli government itself has said it is releasing prisoners "without blood on their hands." World T.V. news has shown the terror inflicted by Israel upon Palestinians and Lebanese people. Journalists and peace activists have also been on Israel's hit list! End the occupation - now!

Ronnie Wolman, greetings old friend. Your explanation of what is going on is accurate especially about Bracha's/Tzfonit's actions. On the shalom-salaam.net site that Gabe gets an insensitive thrill of calling the the "SS site" that is made up of 85% Jews and 15% Arabs, anyone can see, especially Gabe, that she is upholding the torch in defense of Israeli Jews. It's too bad he carries on this way because he has an important Jewish message to deliver but he is always bogging himself down by foul language. Anyway Ronnie, thanks for trying to cool off things and I seem to have mistakingly thought he was part of the new Yahoo forum.

It's back to the terror training camps for this bunch. more work for israei intelligence, IDF and police to keep 256 more newly recruited suicide bombers out of israel. which demented politician is responsible for this injustice this time??

What do you call a murderer that is dispatched to kill you but is caught as he gets to your House. In Law it is called attenmpted murder and the penalties are just as severe.

The situation in the Middle East is personal to every Jew. U insist on making me laugh when U claim that Bracha is supported by 1/3 of Jewry. I challenge you you prove that and I will tell you that less than 1% in Israel or outside would consider Bracha anything less than an Arabist. I never called her a traitor. I am not in full agreement with peter but am prepared to discuss with him in a civil discourse. Bracha on the other hand has an Agenda and it is impossible to reason with her. When in Israel I met a few like her. And the Israelis have a name for people like that (Really Ronnie-I did not invent it. There is nothing personal but personal traits and experiences always enter into a discussion. If you were debating a Rightist and a Leftist your debate would be different with each of them. When debating a person like Bracha who has her mind shut : you have to shock her into reality and out of her dream land. Just as a matter of interest, she can always hide behind censorship SS.

He went way out on a limb trying to whack the Hamas leadership in Gaza. He suffered a big loss of respect when Fatah pulled the chicken switch and bailed out of Gaza. He has not received the kind of support he had been promised by the US. Now Olmert has released a small number of prisoners who had served most of their sentences, but all small fish. Abbas has a very bad hand to play folks, and I still think he is a better option than any who will follow him. Israel needs to get serious and fast.

Maria, regarding why the 256 were in jail if they weren't murderers, we don't know but the article is very clear that they hadn't murdered Jews. (Re-read the article.) As for the about 10,000 Palestinians currently in prison, look up "administrative detention." That should cover a good number.

The New Israel Fund does the same thing.It reaches out.This is not appeasement. I disagree with Gabes attack on Bracha as bing personal.I always have.I disagree how she is branded like she is a traitor.If she is a trator then a good thirds of israel are traitors too. The site I used to write on was not a Palestinian site and it wasnt a peace now site either.It was a debating site and I agree that peter was pushed unfairly after giving excellent pro Israel arguments in debate. He got little support although many Jews as well as Arabs were invited with the only restrictiuon was abuse. It WAS an opportunity for discourse on a continual basis. I disagree with the personal abuse anywhere and have fought it many times even on Haaretz.I dont think a site is dynamic if it is homogenous and an opportunity was lost all the way around. The other point is people more often than not stick to positions rather than change them when they hear reasoning.It is out of fear.We are all afraid.

I think you are all missing the point here. From the Jewish experience primarily there is a great need for survival.Its not just post Holocaust,its also the survival of the people as a people.Jews numbers are not that big in this world(maybe 10 million?) On the other hand there move in the modern world is to multiculturism and globalism where we are all babies of the internet,one people,one love,one joy.Most nations can accept this as they have enough numbers to be democratic AND retain their distinct society. When Tizfonit/Bracha talks about peace and sharing,I think her vision is wonderful but in anither way its an attack on the character of the Jewish people.For if we have this open society with no distinction (Im not talking prejudice here)then the Jewish world will surely get smaller and evaporate as so many societies have.But instead of dealing with the problem and discuss Bracha is called an appeaser. Bracha is working with the people not with the governments.

The Jews returned in numbers to what they believe to be THEIR homeland. It took pogroms and a Holocaust to gather the courage. There are still many Arabs in Israel. The Jews will NEVER willingly give up their majority status. The choice for Palestinians is to keep on fighting and become prisoners or face checkpoints,walls, other protective measures or reach a negotiated accommodation with Israel. Life is not perfect- not for Arabs and not for Jews.

It does not matter if those released terrorists have not taken part in attacks directly. They were involved anyway. I would like to know what you mean by occupation. You say that land was promised to ?you?. If I am included in ?you?, you have got me wrong because I am not Jewish. And also I have to tell you I have murdered no one. Neither do the Israelis kill people just for the sake of it but because those people are attacking Israel and murdering Israelis.

3. Bingo ! Arafat is the one who created the whole mess ! Even though , paranoids keep insisting in blaming Israel on using the policy ?divide to conquer? ! Arafat was the mastermind on this issue ! Thanks to him I do not have enough fingers to count endless Palestinians factions ! Furthermore, I would also like to resuscitate some interesting characters but as you now , we will be just ?fantasizing? and we shall live this for Abbas ( d specialist ! Talk with Hamas ? They didn?t and they don?t want to step into peace negotiations ! 4. Finally Regarding Arabs neighbors a) Jordan: Numbers don?t lie Palestinian birth ratio double than the regular ! Sooner or later needs to face the problem. Better now, when he still can handle b) Egypt is clearly breaching Arab League pact ! You say, it is not their problem ! I say, they signed now its time to act !Or Israel is the only sucker who needs to fullfill signed agreements ?

"If not you then who, if not now then when?"

1. Better get an opinion and stick to it !!!Your own words just a few hours ago ! ?Is Abbas fantasizing all by himself, or did Bush share some fantasies with him? When does he expect Israel to release more prisoners for him?? and let?s b honest ,this is not the first time he ?fantasize? by making promises on issues that he does not have ANY influence ! 2. I don?t get it ? They will succeed in opening Rafah crossing by bombing Kerem Shalom crossing and starving their own people ? Am I the one playing dirty ? Maybe , pal logic had started to affect your own ? It would not be ?smarter? just to start recognizing Israel right to exist, respecting previous agreements and giving up on terror !

A gentleman rapist and a ruthless rapist are, at the end of the day, rapists. Months into what you refer to as civil discourse the bottom line result is a smile and the statement that: -a Jewish State of Israel is in it's nature not legitimate. -there will be no peace until Israel recognizes that she cannot exist as a Jewish Nation. -the only way there can be peace is when the zionist entity is removed and Jews take there place as a very well treated minority within the arab world. -zionists (not jews of course) are the scourge of the Middle East. Always said with a smile and never ever any vulgarities tsk tsk. Rape with a smile/Rape with a sneer....which rape is acceptable? In my book neither. For some others a polite rape, a nice rape is ok.

Avrum writes "That is exactly what you Palestinians did to the Israelis before 1967. You miserable people have been doing that since the early 1920`s. Basically you people have been killing Jews/Israelis for the past 80 yrs. 40 yrs ago we finally smacked you to stop it." 1- You talk as if Palestinians were acting in a vaccuum, not because the "Jews" (as you call them) insisted on stealing half our land for a Jewish-only state, banished its natives with the help of your allies the Arabs (who, far from attacking Israel in 1948, mostly invaded ONLY the areas of Palestine designated by the UN for Palestinian Arabs, which Israel then attacked also) and then said "hey, what's the problem? We want peace!", and 2- it is very clear that you Israelis are morally unqualified to do any "smacking" of Palestinians. You have no moral superiority in this conflict, so don't fool yourself otherwise.

I guess any slime can get a cheap seat and spout and yell and rave against Israel. Lab Rat is a good example of the good Irish antisemitic old boys network. Never been to Israel, never been to any Arab country but thinks that he is an expert. The Chinese call it an MD (Maven of Drek). But on this Rag his dribble is supposedly passing off as Conversation.

In general, I do not believe a society is totally peaceful, as there are good and bad everywhere. Haaretz says Israel has freed only those 'not involved in the attacks..', which clearly means Israel is holding them in dungeons for nothing. Israels has been murdering any moving living creatures, evet it be a child. Numerous examples have been published on Haaretz. You seem to miss the root of the problem, the occupation, but I won't write anything about it, as it was 'promised' to you, the chosen people. And for the civilans you have murdered so far, please tell your fancy stories to someone who is not the inhabitant of the earth. As a reliable source of info, Haaretz has published enough news on the number of civilians, including elderlies, children, murdered by IDF. Fatih

THE MODERATE wolf in Sheeps clothing.I have no clue what you speak off. But come to think of it neither do you. I guess you hijacked that SS site and made it into a SALAAM site. But to me it will always be that SS Site. CHGODMK believes that I single handedly destroyed it. I hope that he is right. As for Bracha, she is in the service of the Arabs and thats why I call her an Arabist. I am not sure of her motivations but have a very good idea. Something to do with the sperm donor perchance?

Again and again and again, the Israeli gov't is making a mistake. No Arab prisoner should be released in contradiction to his (her) sentencing. It makes law enforcement a farce, and the PALs know it. Minimally, the 3 Israeli soldiers should be made part of any "deal". No exceptions. Something is terribly wrong with Israel's leadership. Those 3 men will never, never, never, be released. The Fatah members will without question, commit more crimes against the Jews. That is their passion, their cause, their goal. They want to divide Israel on every issue, and slowly break your will. And they are succeeding. In California we have 25 to life without parole for 3 time felony offenders.

Unlike rubberneckers like you who just like to sit in the cheap seats and hope for a blow-out I have a stake in Israel. Your post is the single most telling example of how little you understand what Israel is and how central the country is to Judaism. now putting your red herring aside which is about the extent of your contribution to the talkbacks....are our kidnapped boys alive? You don't give a shit, which is about what you're worth.

Gabe, you are obsessed with shalom-salaam.net. Now that you have your own forum site on Yahoo with the boys, you can stop being a Peeping-Tom every single day on shalom-salaam.net and get your material from your own forum. You have given that site enough publicity and now you should be promoting your own Jewish forum.

You just can't get it into your thick skull that you were kicked off Shalom-Salaam because of your foul language and abuse, not because of your views. Keep your good company and I'll be glad not to be a part of it. Seems to me that you detest me and the forum to no end, yet you still go to great efforts to change your gender and identity from a Mormon to a Moslem to a Noahide to sneak in and sniff about my posts. Pretty strange you should want to talk with people you detest so much. Guess you really need some friends, Gabe. Perhaps it's time you got a life, eh?

YOU SAID "If Palestinian soldiers came into Israel and started shooting at Israeli children, and have been doing so for the last 40 years, it would be right of Israeli citizens to use weapons against those Palestinians and resist them" Ramzi. That is exactly what you Palestinians did to the Israelis before 1967. You miserable people have been doing that since the early 1920's. Basically you people have been killing Jews/Israelis for the past 80 yrs. 40 yrs ago we finally smacked you to stop it.

or is it Gabe1 talks and Tzfonit dodges the tough questions. Talk is cheap. I'm from Missouri, show me the meat.

Whoopie you have not capitulated!! Mighty Noble of you!!!!What have you not capitulated to the so called "Occupation" or your so called "Land Theft" or perhaps the "one State instead of Israel" solution. Or you just believe that your home is not subject to the rules that you wish to impose on other Jews and Israelis. I am answering the opinions that you post here and only augment my opinion of you based on that SS site that you are hawking. Safer environment there. You are forgetting that I was banned on three different occasions because my POLITICS do not conform with Leftist Self Hating Humanism. I do happen to be in good company as you either lost or kicked off a number of people that do not tow your SS lone. I just look down on people like you and Jews that want to show that they are something other than Jews. I am proud of who I am and do not compromise on that and never did.

the other two threads:Self hating Jews can teach Muslims& Arabs need a Martin Luther King.Wont repeat that here.Briefly that is who Gandhi was.I don't need to defend him,since the whole world knows.Naive,maybe?I happen to agree with Martin Buber,the jewish theologian,who said to Gandhi that non violence would not have worked with Hitler.And I add:nor with israel either.The nature of the Resistance is determined by the nature of the Occupier.Re: question of courage and violence.Point he was making was that it is better to be courageous than cowardly.A grandmother who kills herself in the process of attacking her tormentor(Omar Anjar inBeit Hanoun last year)is courageous unlike IDF who sit in a plane and drop bombs,go home & sleep comfortably in their beds.The Beit Hanoun massacre was reported world wide last year in the western and non islamic press,in conservative newspapers etc.Gandhi did not create Pakistan! Some misguided Hindus hate him and they are usually fundamentalists.

I am curious...why the interest in Israel? Why the hatred? Pakistan was wrenched away from India and made into a dangerous muslim country displacing many more people than the creation of Israel and you seem to be fixated only on Israel. We are smothered by muslim countries acting like animals...depriving their citizens and especially women of any rights and you concentrate on Israel. The only conclusion I can come to is that you place your dislike of Jews onto Israel with the code word "Zionists "and run with this banner like the "Kite Runner" ran with his kites.In case you have not read this moving and excellent book I suggest you do...the very people you love to defend show their cruelty and viciousness through the eyes of the muslim author. You correctly use the word "fool" in your name..you do the word justice.

ivar, you cant have your cake and eat it ! the god theory does not allow for opposition and the dark forces are a creation of roman christianity. there are no sides just the stupidity of mankind and his invented religions! the development of superstition has been consistent since man became urbanised and continues through the ages! man must take the blame for what he does not load it onto an invible god !!

Israel keeps arresting Palestinians based on suspicions. Even the Israeli government claims that the 256 people released were not involved in killing or wounding Israelis. Yet one of the released was serving a 20 year term, and had completed 18 years of it. This is the travesty. The fact that Israel holds people in jail for 20 years for nonviolent offences. There are thousands more being held for nonviolent crimes, or for nothing at all. How can you claim that Israel made a mistake in releasing them, when you admittedly don't even know why they were held in the first place?

I am quite intrigued by an Arab apologist using the name Angela. Perhaps it is in deference and a wish of an Angel ( virgin in Arab parlance). Do not believe all that you read as Israelis still consider Abbas a Holocaust denier and a facilitator of terror with a suit and a smile. I consider him a flat out Lier and his latest promises attest to that

I agree that aggression should stop on BOTH sides. There has to be an agreement that at a certain point it stops. The reality is, however, that the Jews don't agree to go from being a majority in the only Jewish country there is, to being a minority. Palestinians are waiting for nothing if they think Jews are just going to give up Israel. Israel will agree to be good neighbours with a Palestinian state that doesn't attack it. That will bring the Palestinian prisoners home.

"the winners in this talkback are the israel supporters.the arab/palestinians/terrorists are writing non-sense.they based theirs on lies only." Come and contribute to the discussions this time tomorrow night, Maria....

The fact that you choose to use this forum as a convenient place to attack me because you were thrown out of Shalom - Salaam for your rudeness and your vulgarity is no reason for me to be answerable to you here. If anyone is interested in reading my opinions besides you, who seem to be obsessed with them, they can go to Shalom-Salaam.net and read them there. What I believe and what I write are what I choose, not what comes at your beck and call. And if you read what I answered Karim - I refused to capitulate to any of his demands. As would any patriotic Israeli.

1. You portray Abbas as a liar and diconnected fro reality because he imagines more prisoners being released. How about Olmert going to war to release the two soldiers, an unattainable goal? Olmert explained that he had to encourage the public. I thing Abbas is a lesser fantasizer. 2. Hamas insist on opening the Rafah crossing. It makes sense for the. Otherwise, they will never be able to leave Gaza. They will be arrested by Israel. You need to think more seriously here. Don't just throw dirt. These people are not stupid. They are smarter than Olmert going to war while allowing many defenseless civilians to absorb rockets. 3. Who represents the Palestinians? Good question, which had a clear answer. But Arafat was a "no partner", and so was Abbas for a year before Hamas won the elections". Hamas of course was no partner, but even the Unity Government was a "no partner" and pushed to the breaking point. People who kill their parents should not complain about being orphans. You idea of pushing the problems the Occupation is causing onto the lap of Egypt and Jordan must warm their heart. It is not their problem, though. Those who cook the stew end up eating it, especially if it is a lousy stew.

When will they meet Shalit and the Israelis kidnapped by Hizbollah

Dutch, being that u concider all israeli army soldiers to be evil, your opionin here is kinda bias. besides, you once again are avoiding the question and trying to blame israel. Please, follow through this time. Thanks!! Also, PETTY prisoners?!?! Do u know why any of them are in jail?! For failed suicide and murder attempts to kill israel! They failed due to israeli intellegence stopping them. But they all tried to kill people. in all other countries, attempted murder is a bit more than just "petty". But then again, when they kill jews, that doesnt count to u, now does it

and hiding in Natick knows no end. You who proclaimed for all to hear, that you were undertaking the role of a Human Shield, are still in hiding. Talking of disgrace, you're the epitome, desperately holding on to the U.S., a coward to the end.

Thanks for coming clickfool. But once u start trusting arab media on what happens, i cant really talk to you. See, its no different than in lebanon when arabs claimed israelis killed 40 people in attacks and there ended up being no casualties. in the future, try getting your news from someone trustworthy!

Then you do not believe all the Pals are peaceful. However, you say the released people are innocent. Do you mean Israel jails innocent pals and let the terrorists get away with the murder? The problem is not a matter of numbers. The fact is that the pals are always attacking Israel and Israel retaliates. Under the circumstances, israel?s restraint is admirable. We have to take into account that the pals target civilians whereas the Israelis target terrorists.

A Palistan prisoner is happier in a Jewish cell than in the main street of any Palestan city. Abbas' wish should be filled. Send him his poors, his killers, his illiterates, his scum, his beasts. What is Israel waiting for? Next time IDF encounters this scum they would know that by making them prisoners they had make a terrible blunder. How about our three beautiful Jewish youth rotting in the scum's jails? Not even an exchange of prisoners Mr. Olmert? Mr Olmert, what is your role in the Israeli government? Just deception after deception. Would it stop one day? I doubt it!

You write "what you call the `occupation`. " Why, Hannah, what do you call it? We could police ourselves if we had our own sovereignty and freedom. When you write "Get those criminals to stop trying to kill Israelis", let me ask you, who has killed more people? Israelis have killed many more of us, most of them unarmed, than the other way around over the last 40 years. And don't take me for a fool - you think if there is no more violence Israel will leave? You think I'm stupid? Israel wants one thing only: ALL the land and NONE of the Palestinians. We are a so-called "demographic problem" as if we are some insects or something... you guys are so hateful, more than we could ever be, as someone else wrote above.

you're using KJV.

israel supporters.the arab/palestinians/terrorists are writing non-sense.they based theirs on lies only.

if they were not murderers, why did israel sent them to prisons?tell me why they were jailed?they should have done something wrong.israel made a mistake in releasing them.

Shimmon, Your hypocrisy and the Israeli apologists knows no end. There you are bitching and moaning about the release of some petty Palestinians prisoners which the IDF would round up in a month and maybe weeks and de- tain against their will and charges without due process. What a disgraceful system you have over there -- you ought to be ashamed of yourselves in this day and age. Let's not forget it was Israelis voters who votes the father of terrorism Begin to the PM's office, and that ruthless gang leader Yitzak Shamir to that same office and of course that war criminal Ariel Sharon whose career was bent on murdering & reductiing othe Pale- stinian peoples' and their lawful and just rights. What moral Jews you have over there in Israel and how, despicable it is to hear you now (and Israeli apologists) bitch and moan about some petty Palestinian prisoners. Get real, Dutch

What do you do when an apologist is UNABLE to read straight and understand fine details? Can you argue with him? On what basis? Logic doesn`t work! Here are a few examples from Danite the Jewish apologist! 1. "Today, Senator Fulbright would not have said that [Jews control the Senate] because everybody knows that the Jewish Lobby controls the US Congress on Israel-related issues. "In 1997, Fortune magazine asked Congressmen to rank the "25 most powerful" lobbying organizations in DC. In 2005, the National Journal did the same. Both times, AIPAC came in 2nd - ahead of, for instance, the AFL-CIO and the NRA, but behind the AARP." - Wikipedia" - Tosefta (with Wikipedia source in the original message) "Tosefta reasoning?? You claim as proof that the "jews sontrol congress" because "everybody knows" they do.Is that what you call reasoning??LOL" - Danite Of course, Danite the apologist could not remain silent when the well known fact about AIPAC was stated. Let us say that his rage blinded him to the evidence cited. But how can one justify the following exchanges? 2. "part of the reason for anti-Semitism has been Jewish separatism and sense of superiority. Hitler should have taught us of the terrible consequences. Instead, we are doing more of the same in the Territories." - Tosefta "Tosefta please remind the board about how Jewish superiority forced Hitlers hand against them,and how we have not learned the lesson in humility he was trying to teach us according to you." - Danite I tried my luck in making things VERY explicit: "Danite, please read my quote sloooowly and carefully, and then try to answer the following question: According to the quote, why did Hitler kill the Jews? (a) He hated them, in part for their separatism and sense of superiority. (b) The Jews forced his hand. (c) He was an educator trying to teach the Jews a lesson in humility. (d) He was an educator trying to teach the Jews a lesson in separatism." My attempt FAILED! Danite replied: "There is no difference between my rendition of your words and your actual words." I might as well talk to a piece of wood. (continued)

Israel just keeps rewarding terrorism.

I see that you are in Ramallah. You ask to get rid of what you call the 'occupation'. You know just as well as I do how simple that is. Get those criminals to stop trying to kill Israelis - Jews and Arabs - and you will find amazingly that there is no more occupation. Our intention, as you well know, is protection of our people. Who wants to waste fortunes that could go to educational funds and social welfare funds on policing our neighbours, when if they policed themselves adequately the money could be saved?

"Aside from the fact that you just concider army generals for israel to be "terrorists" the one thing you are forgetting is that they had no intention, at ANY POINT IN HISTORY or willingly killing innocent people" Then how would you describe Israel's decision to send in a warplane loaded with a 1 tonne bomb, to flatten an apartment complex in Gaza in 2002 and kill one old Hamas leader? The Israelis KNEW, beyong any shadow of a doubt, that this bomb would slaughter countless innocent civilians (including, as it happens, 9 sleeping children) yet they went ahead and did it.

The state of israel encouraged moving there, and many brave souls did. After years of living there and keeping an army presence there that made it so arabs couldnt fire at sderot like they cowardly do now, israel hung them out to dry. Its disturbing and pathetic on the part of the israeli government

This reminds me of when Israel left Gaza. No sooner had it left that the pals, Abbas included, were demanding more. But they did to stop their attacks on Israel.

If only one of these released men committs a terrorist act, like looking cross-eyed at an IDF soldier, it will all be declared null and void. The thought of more prisoner releases will stop.

Yaakov, you must know why the so-called ?occupation?. On the other hand, since when have the pals been willing to recognize and respect Israel?

without Israeli occupation since 1967: no Hamas.

I do not say 'all' Pals, or 'all' Israelis are peaceful people. However, if you check the number of murders by Israel, you can conclude which side 'loves' the peace. Fatih,

And tell me a single thing arabs did that can even be remotely seen as in favor of peace?!? (For the record, sayin u are against terrorism and then firing rockets doesnt count)

The only reason why Abbas is recognized by Israel and the US is because they are telling him exactly what to do and when to do it making Israel's mission easier to fullfill. It is important to recognize that Hammas has been elected to represent the Palestinian people not Abbas. Abbas and Israel approved the closing of the Gaza border to thousands of Palestinians who wish to enter or exit the border and have not been able to do so since June. There were reports of Palestinians becoming ill and some dying on the Gaza border. Talk about good gesture on the part of Israel again

Actually it was Pollards superior who betrayed Israel by not passing along info that was supposed to go to the Israeli's therefore Pollard took it upon himself to pass along this info. Yes he should serve his sentence no-one disputes that. The question has always been why was he hit with such a severe sentence after his plea bargain was settled on? Why have other spies,with blood on their hands,received less sentences some already released? This is the fly in the ointment this is the disgrace of the prosecutor DeGenova and the sentencing judge who made disparaging remarks about Israel and So.Africa...and why is the information about this crime classified and locked up like a national secret?Something is rotten here and at every turn the cover up gets more murky.Again to reiterate Pollard should definately do time for his crime but enough is enough.Caspar Weinberger did not even write about this in his autobiography and when asked why he said it was a small thing blown out of proportion

Gotta love Sullivan and his flights of fancy! Even if an deranged Olmert gives away 1/2 of Israel and the Pals finally warp history and time to get NOW what they never had, Israel still wont release 9000 Jew killers. You can dream all you want - but it wont happen. We wont let the arabs do to us what was done to other native peoples - erase thier culture and destroy thier holy places. Maybe SULLY there will be a "free and vibrant MECCA" but I doubt it.

Shimmon, Your 9.000 Gazan settlers deserved to be kicked out of their homes. They overplayed their hand in the casino of the illegal occupation and should have kissed and waved goodbye to each other by now. Instead of claiming the state owes them more. Now this all seems to be apart of their disease, What loafers! Hardly what anyone could call pioneer settlers anymore. LOL, Dutch

Can any of you say a a single thing the palestinians have done in favor of peace?! Still waiting...i know it might take a while to think of somethin, but between the three of you, u should be able to make something up pretty easily.

'They should seek to convert the Arab heart. The same God rules the Arab heart, who rules the Jewish heart. They can offer satyagraha in front of the Arabs and offer themselves to be shot or thrown in to the Dead Sea without raising a little finger against them. They will find the world opinion in the their favor in their religious aspiration. There are hundreds of ways of reasoning with the Arabs...' The PLO/Hamas/Al-aska Martyrs/ PLFP/Islamic Jihad, etc. would love this Gandhi. Imagine Jews smiling with flowers being shot and dumped into the Dead Sea. Gandhi was a vicious anti-Zionist. What Gandhi was blind to is there are millions of people who can commit genocide and wake up every morning feeling good about it. Darfur, Rwanda, Kosova, Biafra, etc. For Arabs, a massacre of their opponents is cause for celebration. Gandhi was very lucky to be facing Brits and not Nazis.

Aside from the fact that you just concider army generals for israel to be "terrorists" the one thing you are forgetting is that they had no intention, at ANY POINT IN HISTORY or willingly killing innocent people. Can you say the same for the terrorists that blew up busses in jerusaelm? Or do you just turn a blind eye to jewish suffering? Yeah....i thought so.

Its funny that you can call an army defending its nation from constant terrorist attacks that far preceeded ANY attack on them a terrorist group, yet someone who admitted to killing 30 people, mostly women and children in a pizza shop, u can set free. And by funny, i mean deeply disturbing.

It works! That way, u dont have to explain the ridiculous holes in every one sided nonsense that comes out of your mouth, dutch!! It works perfectly! Way to rationalize the continuation of supporting murder without having to explain it to anyone!!

under the heel of occupation. Israel has never exhibited the slightest interest in seeing itself beside a vibrant, thriving State of Palestine. It prefers a cheap market on which to dump their goods and employ as a source of chep labour. Maybe that's why, KUTW.

"For Palestinians, the prisoners are heroes in the struggle for statehood" for Jews, they are masters of terror, killers of little children, and thieves of cities, lands and religious artifacts that are older then their own culture. Whats wrong is that Olmert thinks this is a good thing, what a twisted sick mind he has. Malouh is responsible for the death of Ze'evi - I guess Jewish lives are cheap today.

Israel should not replenish. In my opinion, Israel should not arrest terrorists but send them where they can never be released from.

Israel would not have released those Palestinians from Fatah but they knew that they could use them as traitors. This is a set-up on the part of Israel to show the Palestinians that they are so called doing good gesture when it is a way for them to get support and recognition from the world. Israel, you cant fool everyone.

There is no more perfect evidence for his existence than in the Israeli-Palestinian vendetta. The prince of strife, the prince of this world, and of darkness glories in hatred, bitterness, vengeance, the breaking of the commandments, thou shalt not murder, steal, covet, lie, and shalt love they God supremely and they neighbor Palestinian as thyself. He despises peace and all that goes with it, forgiveness, kindness, conciliation, generosity, good will to man and peace on earth, because in destroying humanity made in God's image, God's children of every nation, kindred, and tongue, he can inflict pain on his Creator with whom he is in deadly rebellion. Whose side are you on?

and I am not Jewish.

The pals have never wanted to build up a free and vibrant Palestine? What makes you think it will be different now?

Do you mean the Pals are peaceful people, which do not murder Israelis, launch qassams at Israel and kidnap Israelis?

Of the more than 10,000 kidnapped hostages, how many Palestinians are administrative detainees, with no charges ever filed against them and with no trials. Some of these kidnapped hostages have been held for years. Those released have served more than 80% of their prison sentences. And most have been convicted without fair and open trial. Israeli trials conducted by the military are like those trials conducted by Saddam Ba'athis parties, except in the case of Israel there are no public or private execution. Summary judgment is a common value system. Oh I do not need to mention the worst of all justice system is that of the Palestinian Authority, where arrests takes place in one day, the next a trial, few hours later public execution. The PA got lots of money from the US to improve on this but no hope for reform. Yes I complain about both the Israeli and Palestinian injustice systems.

how about stopping terrorism on BOTH sides, how about a country for ALL its inhabitants, how about stopping deception and land stealing... peace is a process that needs faith and commitment of BOTH 'enemies' . Creating and boosting puppets would help on the short run, but then how long can that last...

Shimon wrote-----"how do murderers help "build a nation" Seems to have worked very well in Israel, IE, Begin, Rabin, /Shamir,Sharon(A common gangster in many gangs) and a host of other murderers and war criminals, going back to Stern/Irgun etc. Jews like you will never know peace, but maybe you don,t want peace. Regards

Shimon, It is Israeli offenders who are roaming your streets and getting away with murder per Human Rights Watch. Some moral army and your despicable defense of it. You should at least demand they remain accountable under international law. Peace and justice groups will use this to argue withholding military aid to your state. So it will come back to you---that's a guarantee. Dutch http://www.kibush.co.il/show_file.asp?num=5074

Will all your tact and negotiating skills as well as your pleasant disposition did not Karim offer you two choices: 1. Perpetual War or you take his $50,000 offer per Israeli and leave Israel along with all the Jews? WOW 3 months of appeasement and nothing to show for it-But he is your friend.... Before you mesmerize the readers with your exploits on behalf of Isreal just give us the highlites. Prove me wrong in front of the other readers.Since coming to Israel you opposed the 1982 Lebanon war. You were for all th withdrawals and you are against the IDF using force. Correct any of these misconceptions as well as your on what Israel stole and what they are occupying and your ONE STATE SOLUTION.

What a snake. How about some thanks, instead of reinforcing that Israel has 11,000 more prisoners. Remember why they're in prison: they're CRIMINALS. Abbas cannot be trusted. Like Arafat, he would profess peace to us"infidels" and scream "jihad" back to his people. But then, this is the Arab way. And why most of them will ontinue to live in abject poverty forever.

You know very well that the Hamas propaganda you are spreading fools nobody but the Jew-haters, and they want to be fooled. You started you Terror war against the Jews in the ME long before there was a state, long before you lost the war in 48, 67, 73, and no matter how many times you bomb or shoot yourself in the foot it will allways be somebody elses fault. Your Terror campaign never had anything to do with an urge for national indepenence. To you every inch of Jewish controlled land in the ME is "occupation". Please understand this: we are not the little good dhimmis we were, begging you to let us keep this very small island in the arab ocean. We are telling you: Start behaving or get off our property NOW!

"Mahatma Gandhi used to say:"It is better to be courageous,though violent,better than to be a coward."" You quote Gandhi ad nauseam (though interestingly this Gandhi quote appears to justify violence), as if India did not exist before Gandhi. India existed 1000's of years before Gandhi. Thanks to Gandhi, Pakistan split off from India as an Islamic Republic instead of a multi-cultural democracy. Why do you think so many Hindus were furious with Gandhi? By, the way, a lot of Gandhi's external policies seem infantile and naieve. Back in the 30s, when Jews were being persecuted by the Nazis, Gandhi prevailed on German Jews not to immigrate to Mandate Palestine but to engage in non-violent "civil disobediance". Hunger strikes and sit-ins are some antidote to SS stormtroopers!

peter wrote----'In the meantime are our kidnapped boys alive?" Had not heard that Canadian soldiers were serving in Gaza or northern Israel. Canada is sure lucky having a loyal and %100 dedicated and concerned Canadian citizen like peter????. Really.

We just taught these muderers they can kill Jews freely - and off scott free.

Why not do what Yemen did, and tell the prisoners that they can sign a form stating "I will not commit crimes against Israel", but at the same time require them to use a family member as collateral on their promise. This way, if the prisoner goes and commits a crime like suicide bombing or a shooting attack, his family member will go to jail to serve the sentence instead of him!

Lakshmi & Yaakov, Pay little attention to Shimmon, I have finally figured out he works for the IDF. Hence he will condemn every one else's violence but not the IDF's slaughter of Paletinians too. Dutch P.S. See what Human Rights Watch had to say about the IDF's probe on Palestinian deaths. Some moral army and its appalling practices..... http://www.kibush.co.il/show_file.asp?num=5074

For those 17% , if arrested again, there should be no release before their sentence is completed regardless if the PM him/herself wants to release the prisoner. Perhaps a Knesset 2/3 majority would be ok since a debate would have to occur and elected officials state their position. Sentencing for crimes should be increased for recidivists. If the crime would have called for 5 years, it should be 7-10 for the recidivist. If a death occurs in a terror crime committed by a released terrorist, Israel should have the option to apply the death sentence. Israel needs new laws but fat chance a left leaning 'release'em court' would agree to tougher laws. The old adage 'crime pays' can be adjusted in Israel to 'terror pays'.

He betrayed the US, let him do his time. That's justice.

What a joke, your rethoric is damaging Israel. In fact, it is so extremist and nonsensical that I suspect that you are an Iranian proganda official, misusing this talkback to discredit Jews and Zionists alike. You deserve to be locked up with clickfool, khalid, the vioce of moshiah and a few other talkbackers who use this forum to express their frustrations instead of consulting a doctor.

Lets see, israel kicked 9,000 of its citizens out of their homes, most of whom are still homeless. In return, they got hundreds of rockets fired. Israel gave the arabs guns in olso. In return, they were used against them. Israel takes down roadblocks, arabs respond with an increase in terrorist attacks. So can SOMEONE, ANYONE AT ALL, please tell me why this is a good idea and what on earth israeli stands to get in return aside from an increase in murderers roaming the streets?

The guy in the picture is not the elected Pm. The real PM was a Hamas guy elected by a majority of the Palestinian people in the West Bank and Gaza. The guy in the picture is a guy put in place by the PLO, the US and Israel. He has no democratic standing. To call him PM is bad journalism. He is Rumkovsky's mate.

I am not answerable to you, nor to the likes of you, and seeing as you will refute anything I have done for Israel as lies, as you have done here in the past, it is hardly worth my bother to tell you. It would not fit your warped picture of me anyway, or your continuous stream of insults and abuse that you peddle here, ando you would just reject them. But frankly I would not want to be a person that you respect, and as long as you insult me here as a person you hate, I feel I"m on safe ground. So if the thought of me with a rifle or doing anything to support Israel makes you laugh, than get ready to bust a gut laughing, because believe me there's a very long list for you to laugh about. You couldn't take on Karim in a three-month long debate even if you tried, because you lack the decency, the diplomacy, the sincerity or the agenda to gain anyone's respect or take any stand of your own, and heaven help us if it was you representing Israel in such a discussion.

worldwide.Even conservative newspapers in the Western press covered this event.There was also a an unforgettable picture of women walking towards the mosque.That event was organised by a woman member of the Palestinian Legislative Assembly.The IDF went in search of her and dropped the bombs on the apartment block where she lived.She was not there,but her relatives, a family of 13 were killed.Omar Anjar herself lost her grandson to a related attack. I am sorry.There was no excuse for this attack,which israel itself admitted to doing,except they claimed that it was an error ! It was widely reported by the non Islamic press.I am surprised that you don't seem to be aware of this incident.

That none of the prisoners were in prison for violent acts against Israelis. Read the article.

"None of them so much as wounded an Israeli. None of them should have been held in the first place." All of these prisoners have been detained due to involvement in planning terror attacks. Is that not reason enough to arrest them? What would you say if America found men who were planning terror attacks but did not arrest them simply because they did not yet have actual blood on their hands? Why the double standards? Be realistic- Israel needs to protect its civilians.