Olmert: Core issues are on the Annapolis agenda

Tough luck Olmert. You talk about core issues at annapolis and Lieberman and Shas will collpase your government and you are finished. The Israeli people will spit on you if they see you walking down the street for being such a quisling.

You cannot ignore the Joel factor: Separate Hebrews from their land and there will be hell to pay for it. Pull out of Gaza = get a stroke. If Olmert pulls Jews out of the West Bank, something worse will happen to him. The historical lesson is there for every one to observe. MARK MY WORDS.

Jews who are born in Israel, has the right to stay in Israel.Russians,Europeans and nowadays Immigrants who are not subjected to persecution at their home country,should go back to their home country.Greater Israel remained as one state from the Jordan River till the sea, giving citizenship to every Palestinian refugee in camps and in cities who are born there.Israel change its racist stance that it's a jewish state and must remain so.American gurrantees jewish population in Israel against genocide, in case the Pals out number them. Israeli and Pals live together in peace and the world's most thorny problem is over

I simply hope one thing; that Israel will not give in to American pressure. The Palestinians are very unappreciative of the AMERICAN DOLLAR and obviously do not know what to do with it.

"The mind that bounces around" Mark Lincoln Is better than the mind that stagnate and with nothing new.

I suggest that Chris Linthwaite (the son of a...) expand his "own work" to checking out Israel's GDP before determining Israel's motives and asserting that "Israel can no longer survive with out this money." And before he starts using creative financial analysis of the "lost opportunity costs" of US military aid to Israel, he might also look at a bit of history. Particularly about that island state to whom the US provided military assistance for four years to the tune of tens of billions in today's dollars, and who made repayment over a 50 year period (with multiple deferrals of payment) at the paltry rate of 2% interest. All this so that Mr. Linthwaite could spout his claims in English instead of German.

Hi Johnboy, You are right. I just got confused about the correct terminology, but this is the distinction I meant. Thanks.

D: "ISRAEL WAS NOT TO BE FORCED BACK TO THE FRAGILE AND VULNERABLE 1949/19567 ARMISTICE DEMARCATION LINES BUT TO SECURE AND RECOGNISED BOUNDARIES." No, it said that peace required "the application of both the following principles": 1) "Withdrawal of Israeli armed forces from territories occupied in the recent conflict;" 2) "Termination of all claims or states of belligerency and respect for and acknowledgement of the sovereignty, territorial integrity and political independence of every State in the area and their right to live in peace within secure and recognized boundaries free from threats or acts of force" You are claiming that we have to put both into a blender and mixing them together. If that were the intention then they wouldn't be listed as *two* principles - they would be one well-pureed batter instead. How odd, because 242 definitely say there are two.......

The first step in any solution or reconciliation is to acknowledge the facts and the truth. Such acknwoledgement is finally becoming evident in the pressure cooker of the Annapolis runup. Olmert agrees that there never will come a better moment to achieve peace from the Israeli perspective, before Bush leaves office. Rice certainly emphasizes the unique quality of current Arab support under the Saudi initiative, which must not be allowed to collapse due to the certainty that the extremism threatening the entire Arab world will gain a dreadful advantage, with global repercussions. With these reality checks having been acknowledged, the existential neccessity of a peace breakthrough at Annapolis has a chance, and World War III may be at least delayed, if not averted. WWIII and Annapolis are essentially linked. "If we do not act now to show the Palestinians a way forward, others will show them a way forward," Rice said.

"Olmert & Barak: Liars and War Criminals" (p) Olmert? Yes. Barak? Who got out of Lebanon and offered a peace at a time when Israelis were not ready to accept it, no. peacelover? Maybe just for cinq a sept.

"Israel, we are told, must make painful decisions to support Abbas. WHY??" (sabra) Before the first Palestian uprising, 1987, Israel was in the whole of the Gaza Strip, building there settlements. Before the first Palestian uprising, no one had heard of Hamas. Today, 2007, Hamas is in full control of Gaza, and there is not one Israeli to be found there. What can better than that, make you understant WHY? Or, to understant, do you really have to wait until Hamas has taken over the West Bank too? "We do not see in the media what it is that [Abbas] will bring to the table." (Sabra) One has to be blind not to see that what he will bring to the table, is the principe of a solution based on 'two states for two Peoples'. Which is what Hamas will never ever "bring to the table". If you can think of a third kind of potential partner, just let us know.

It would be best for you to know what RESOLUTIONS 242 and 338 are all about : UNSC RESOLUTION 242 1993 ; ISRAEL WAS NOT TO BE FORCED BACK TO THE FRAGILE AND VULNERABLE 1949/19567 ARMISTICE DEMARCATION LINES BUT TO SECURE AND RECOGNISED BOUNDARIES. Perhaps the Palestinians should understand this and accept that Israel is not bound by any LAW to give over any territory for the PROPOSED PALESTINIAN STATE. Meaning of 'PROPOSED' = INTENDED.

It's one thing for Mahmoud Abbas and Abu Ala to use the threat of violence against Israel (no gains in negotiations, intifada III will come). But for Condi Rice to do it is reprehensible and a new low in American diplomacy.

More typical Israeli government stalling in order to avoid Serious and Substantive talks with the Palestinians. Until the Israeli government is prepared to comply with International Law, end its blatant violations of binding UNSC resolutions (ex 242, 338 and 465)and comply with the ICJ rulings at the Hague there is no real chance of true peace. No person of decency can defend what the Israeli government has done to the Palestinian people. I hope Annapolis will actually lead to something but I highly doubt it.

"But how is that nobody but you and I can see it"Dolly-188.A very good question. As for the question you may read :Palestine Facts 4 sheets www.palestinefacts.org/pf-early-palestine-name- orgin.php For the answer to your question.It is all political. In 1948 Israel was not in a position to argue for obvious reasons.Israel didn't had the population,the reasons of the conflict were different from today,Jerusalem was not part of Israel,the conflict was not of an int. nature as it is now and not a threat to world peace. Add to that pals proved unable to govern themselves.And Jordan was part of Palestine & a stable country. After 60 years of conflict the world must think of new ideas.Britain failed in its Madate.The The creation of Transjordan was a Historic mistake contributed to todays conflict. The Legue of Nation in 1922 do not gave Britain the authority to divide the land.This is a Historic problem needs to be addressed Historically for the right Solution.

Once again, Israel's security is the paramount issue rather than freeing Palestinians from decades of brutal occupation. Livni's requirement that Israel have security before a Palestinian state can be established is just more of the same Israeli stalling that is the "peace process." Israel can hold off on statehood in perpetuity by claiming that its security needs have not yet been met. The truth of the matter is, the Israeli government will never relinquish the settlements. It's just too deceitful to come out and say it. Annapolis will be another in a long history of failures.

the Istraelis are doing the same thing to the Palistinians as the EU did to Jews.

Sanctions never worked and never will? Really ? What nonsense. South Africa, Lybia and North Korea are recent examples of sanctions successfully applied with the target countries eventually yielding in a big way. Even the trade embargo on Cuba had a devastating effect on Cuba’s one time very adventurous foreign policy and can be referred to as partially successful. It is fair to say that sanctions applied to dictatorships, like Saddam’s Iraq, tend to be ineffective. But the most contentious target regimes today e.g. Iran, Hamastan (Gaza) and even Sudan are quasi-democracies and will feel the pain. Once the electorate becomes convinced that the current regimes lead them astray, the situation will change. Wait and see what happens in Gaza in a few years.

" Just hours after he and U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice agreed Syrian officials could attend the conference if Damascus did not seek to address the Golan Heights ". Nice joke . May be the Syrians officials should attend to serve Homos and Falafel sandwiches. Excuse the spelling of falafel but you know what I mean .

He is good for your people. Israel, the Arab Nations and the Christian Nations should be as one. Not fighting amongst themselves for all the world to see. Think about it.

I`m sure You do feel for Abbas, but You don`t mind jews dying, do You ? -It`s all our fault in Your opinion, isn`t it ?

"Then I wont go". No amount of bribes in any shape or form; prisoner release,check point lifting, mud removal etc can beat that card. "Madame Secretary then I am afraid that we will have to postpone the summit". Imagine Rice leaving without waiving, wouldn't that be a sight for sour eyes? A joint declaration of principals. A time line for the creation of Palestine and a willingness of the Israelis to negotiate all these issues at Annapolis or there is no need for Mahmoud Abbas to go there, not on behalf of the Palestinians anyhow.

Phillies stend and deliver.Or else butt out with your standing here,there and everywhere. I say to you too thus:Fool me once shame on me,fool me twice shame om ME! And I mean us us being deseived by the palis. You are a barrel of laughs and have a good on on me too. And how is dear old France these days with a multitudes of terrorists? You are in good company,and you should refer your comments to them and not on Israel...

instead of going to Annapolis. If he has his people's best interest at heart that is.

Dik, I understand the Israel?s position, and I agree with them on security, but the problem for the Israelis is that security is an illusional thing and they will use it to slow the peace process to the point where at the end there will be nothing left to the Palestinians. I know that peace is very much is there. My life is part of this conflect and I believe that reasonable Israelis and Palestinians would solve this conflect in a day or two.

daily. Even those you may think are your enemies, pray for you. Thank you for your sensitivity, herein may God be with you.

He knows it and he doesn't like it, but he was gambling on US support and knew the stakes. He should resign the moment he wakes up.

SHLOMO: "Do you think Israel likes killing innocent people? We have to, to defend ourselves." Nice - so you are saying Israel keeps killing innocents to defend themselves? How is it that the innocent needs to be killed to defend the citizens of Israel? Something that Israel is doing is affecting these innocents, I presume?

with well dressed people and now she is on her way to sh-t all over Abu Mazen.

Olmert's mind seems to bounce around like a bubble in a piss-bowl. From day to day his estimate of what can or will be discussed changes. I do not suspect a crafty attempt at ambiguity. The overall direction seems clear. It is the inability to stick to that direction which disturbs. He is like a guy who changes his mind every time he speaks to another person.

In the Soviet Union it took three workers to plant a tree. One dug a hole and the next planted the tree and the third put back the dirt. If the guy that was to plant the tree was sick, one dug a hole and the other put back the dirt. We just heard that the guy that was to plant the tree at Annapolis has called in sick. Dr Rice is on her way in an hour or two to meet with Abbas and she will waive a lot, what else can she do. She sold him out in the most horrific way and he is to ask for something....anything...please. Yes it has come to that. The Jordanians and the Egyptians and Dr Rice will urge him to come to Annapolis and....well to come to Annapolis and she is hoping for him not to ask "Why"? Because Abbas knows that Annapolis isn't in the best interest of the Palestinian people. It could have been, but it isn't any more and he knows it. O that rock and the hard place, he is there now. Right between them. Maybe even Abbas understands that he has been taken for a ride, and dumped.

T: "Unlike the Geneva Convention, which requires an Israeli enabling law for it to become the Law of the Land (and such a law has not been enacted), the Hague Convention is part of International Humanitarian Law and is obligatory." Not true: Both are part of Int'l Humanitarian Law. Both are obligatory upon Israel. The issue is: can the Israel High Court rule upon the applicablity of THOSE treaties to THESE Occupied Territories? Hague is Customary Law as well as Treaty Law, and Customary Law is automatically part of Israeli law. Ruling on its applicability to the OTs is, therefore, well within the jurisdiction of the IHCJ. The IHCJ ruling: "Yes, it is". But the GC's are strictly Treaty Law between nations, and so isn't part of Israeli law without an enabling law. Therefore the IHCJ insists the applicability of GCIV to the OTs is not within her jurisdiction. The IHCJ ruling: "the issue is not before us". Translation: "I'm not allowed to rule on this".

It's a joke and a good one. "No negotiations at Annapolis" do they really think that Abu Mazen will show up and remember they had high hopes for the Saudis, the Saudis that have been made to look like real fools, how do you think they feel right now? Well the Syrians are invited if they don't talk about the Golan,...it's so funny. Please keep us posted on latest developments here or at Entertainment.

don't quite turn out the way YOU think they should? This is a time of acceptance for us all. Try to grasp the concept.

-Do You want peace or not, what are You prepared to sacrifice & concede, in order to reach a compromise for peace with us ? What are YOU willing to do about Hamas Gaza takeover & what they did to Fatah members then ?

Glories never cease. Or is that, Will glories ever cease?

Where else can you turn Abu Mazen, where else can you turn?

Thanks for Your response. I agree with You about stage 1, but surely Israel has a right to expect something tangible from Abbas & the PA, confidence building should not be one-sided, even if the PA managed to squander a big part of their police force. It must be expected of the PA, that they do something to help against Hamas, the PAL man on the street isn`t very happy about the Hamas takeover of Gaza...isn`t there a wish for revenge on Hamas for the Gaza backstabbing, amongst Fatah supporters ? If I.D.F. is forced to go it alone, while the PA`s sitting on their hands, I say G-d help our boys, so our casualties can be kept to a minimum...-speak about peace-partners !

The annapolis conference, if it happens, can bring nothing good for Israel. On the other hand, Israel cannot be the ones refusing to cooperate in the conference. The best that Israel can hope for is that Abbas will do exactly what you ask him to do, and thereby take Israel out of a potentially difficult situation. The other hope for Israel is that there will be a reconciliation between Abbas and Hamas, in which case the US will have an excuse to let the whole conference idea die a simple death, while telling the Saudis and gulf emirates that US cannot deal with terrorists and allies of terrrorists.

It is almost as if the Hamas could have scripted it, the rug pulling from under Mahmoud's feet. -Stand over there, well a little bit more to the right. Yes next to the cowboys and the Zionist on that bulky ME carpet. Don't look under it, we checked it is mostly just old promises or Israeli commitments swept under there through the years. Now lift one foot and swooooooooooooop...he he he. What a clutz.

papal bull You asked us this same question sometime ago, and because there were so many of them hard to remember.Was it Pope Innocent?or the 8th(forget his name)Now don't be shy,and tell us please....

Poor Abbas he walked straight into it, they saw him coming. Is there a single soul that thinks that Abbas, after Olmert's declaration tonight, can go to Annapolis? I really feel for the guy.

Israel is the Titanic. Olmert is the captain. Livni is the cox.

1. There was never a viable "two-state solution". 2. Jewish people doesn't need a jewish state. I live in a secular state and feel very happy so. 3. Palestinian people (all people established in Palestine say, before 1947) do deserve a palestinian state, a hopefully secular state where they enjoy their civil and political rights, regardless of their religion or lack of and their ethnic origin. 4. I don't think that a state based on religion or ethnicity can be a really democratic state.

Trusting the Israelis and the Americans was a major mistake, not that he wasn't warned. Now for the Fatah spin doctors to earn their salaries. I just can't wait.

Prayer Warrior. I am terribly sorry to have been insensitive. What's in a name Prayer Warrior? Since Iwas created with GOD's help he knows my name surely. Please do pray for me nevertheless,and for our country Israel and the Palestinians too for them to wake up and become normal and remember that we are all the creatures of one GOD THE MASTER OF THE UNIVERSE. Bless you Prayer Warrior sensitive

'The truth is the land is not enough for Israel and the Palestinians' and you are absolutely right! But how is that nobody but you and I can see it??? [Israel has 0.01% of the land mass, the Arab gave 99.09%].

Prime Minister Ehud Olmert took the stage at the Saban Forum on Sunday evening in Jerusalem In short -Israel will NOT agree to a joint declaration. Israel will NOT agree to a fixed time line. Israel will NOT agree to negotiate over, borders, Jerusalem, refugees or anything else at Annapolis. The crown went f-cking wild.

"Israel has said that the Palestinians have not done enough to meet their security obligations, and that the evacuation of outposts does not have the same degree of urgency as maintaining security and containing terrorism. In turn, the Palestinians claim that 90-95 percent of the first phase has already been carried out, while Israel has failed to abide by its commitments." - Haaretz Smadar, here is a little demonstration of a problem, and only of phase #1. (Phase #2, as I indicated, is really not accepted by both Israel and PA.) If the Palestinians believe that they performed 90-95% of phase 1, what do you think they envision? They think they will get all the terror orgs (including their own Fatah) to be quiet. If need be, they can get reactivated. They haven't dismantled anything yet! (Nor is it wise for them to do so, as I indicated.)

its all a sham! Hamas knows it, Israel knows it, but does Condaleezza Rice know it? That 'Palestinian State' is another sham! Why do the Arabs need it when they have 22 Arab States alread'. Then to use Jewish land for an Arab State...... that is the Biggest Sham of all.

You wrote----"Perhaps a formula for simultanous dismantling of illegal settlements in Judea & Samaria by I.D.F. with Abbas using his 30.000 strong armed force disarming Hamas in Gaza could be worked out in Annapolis ?" Glad to see you have dropped some of your demands.IE keeping 15 to 20 percent of The West Bank. Hamas does not need to be confronted if they are brought into the Peace Process but not directly in the early stages. You might get somewhere with your new approach.It is based on "compromise", and not demands. As to confidence measures from Abbas, that is just another reason to get Hamas in out of the cold.

Does this mean that the palestinian half of the population of Jordan and 20% of the population of Israel which is also palestinian will be moving to their palestinian state? Jordan is and has been the palestinian state and that is the core issue everyone ignores. Maybe someone should send Olmert a history primer on the history of the Mandate as it called for an Arab and a Jewish state and Jordan is 77% of that Mandate. Establishing an Arab state in Judea Samaria is therefore a three state solution. Add Gaza as a hamas entity and you have four states.

Assad believes the Golan is Syrias yet the Israeli's have held the Golan longer then Syria ever did. So Assad needs to realize the world doesn't revolve are him and the Golan will be Israels forever.

security means not being afraid to be killed by terrorists like suicide bombers who are killing innocent civilians for the sake of Allah. Shalom from Holland

Chanah, who doesn't have a few dark spots in his past...??? If I remember well, some Israeli leaders (Begin, Sharon..) also had "a few dead men buried in their garden"..... Right...???

I'll just pray for you, knowing that God knows your name, and did lOOOOOOng before you came to be. For you I will pray His greatest blessing; to know Him. Then I pray He will bless you with the kind of gifts only God can give; faith, hope and Love. "And the greatest of these is Love" Amen

they had trust in you and you shouldn't let them down. I'm sure you negotiated in with good intentions but you were let down by the US, now there is nothing for you to do but to wait until the Israelis and US is serious about negotiating. This Annapolis had become a joke and Olmert won't even raise a single question important to your people there. "No negotiations at Annapolis" he said tonight. You must have heard him, we did.

I fully agree with you; whatever will be the outcome, the security of Israel has to be top priority. We can only hope that the Palestinians will get wise leaders openly renouncing violence against Jews. Only then a just peace between Israel and the Palestinians can have a chance for a peace treaty. We pray for the Peace of Jerusalem. Shalom from Holland

Ehud Olmert Saban Forum 4 November 2007 He couldn't have stated it clearer to any Arab state that may have considered attending. Guess who's going to be the turkey this Thanksgiving?

as phase I of the Road Map stipulates, is not only the concern from the Israeli point of view, but also that of President Abbas and the PA governing the Palestinians in general. The proof is the example of Hamas's violent coup in Gaza of June 2007, and this in itself demonstrates that the militias arms should be removed, and that it's the responsibility of the PA to consolidate their arms and all security apparatus. The PA must govern the territories not militias, as no democracy has militias and clans controlling populations and living in fear. It's different from the IRA situation in this respect somewhat. Now at the same time, dismantling the outposts is Israel's obligation concurrent with dismantling terrorist militias. I still see no problem with the Bush Administration's Road Map.

The popes made it a dogma that the sun revolved round the earth. Your history is no different. Israel as coloniser is responsible for solving the problem, not Saudi Arabia. And Israel should face the reality of its continued ethnic cleansing.

The Us and Israel will do something about it. The US will send its officials on tours and speak of summits and supply mountains of arms and billions in cash to Israel. Israel will expand settlements and send in the army and police to protect armed thugs attacking Palestinians. The US and Israeli propoganda machine will re-write history blaming Abbas and the Palestinians for refusing Olmert's "generous offers". Only difference this time is the propoganda has worn so thin it is not even a fig leaf to cover US and Israeli modesty.

There will not be any real core issue discussion in Annapolis because there will be no discussion there. The meeting is too big to have real discussion. What do you do with 30-40 state representatives present? There will be lots of speeches and reading of the pre-prepared Declaration. The other day Lieberman said that he doesn't mind if issues will be listed, as long as no ways for solving them are prescribed. I assume then that this is what will be done, at best. They will list core issues, break them up into core sub-issues and agree to have committes and sub-committees dealing with them later.

Waive Condi, waive and thank you.

I agree with You on all points but one, I think King Hussein of Jordan (and His father, King Abdullah I,unofficially) recognized Israel`s right to exist with signing the peace treaty with Israel a couple of years back. King Abdullah I, was murdered by palestinians because he was seeking peace with Israel, look it up and You`ll see for Yourself.

Judah, stage #1 of the Roadmap is a good confidence-building measure. I will keep it. After that (even in parallel for some time), no more road map but negotiating a full peace agreement. Its implementation will take a few years. It will be necessary to evacuate settlers and find them housing, etc. In any case, I will keep the IDF in control of areas which may endanger Israel until the anti-rocket system is in place (in about 3 years, we are told). Finish the implementation and then have a state of Palestine. P.S. Abbas does not have enough well-trained security people. He cannot even promise to control the city of Nablus. The US is training them now, I understand. In any case, forget the Gaza attack by Palestinians. Israel managed to put itself in responsibility here and will have to do the dirty job.

....nobody expects from Israel to accept all the Arab demands. All we (the "mainstream" around the world) are demanding from Mr. Olmert is to go to Annapolis without "red lines" and to find a fair compro- mise on all the core issues. That's about it, not more and not less.

I am not saying something new. In fact there is nothing new in this conflict. All that happend was repeats. One can read it backward.The good and the bad. If anything the Palestinians can be congradulated for being very transparent. 'read them between the lines'& you will find their massage.Israel used to the habit.Turning a blind eye?Not at all.Both undersand each other. But both,have ultra purpuses.This time Bush. The sequence is always the same.Madrid followed by the others.Why Annapolis should be different Who is right & who is wrong;is nothing to do with it. The truth is; the Land is not enough for Israel &the Pals. Two State is not neighbourhood; it is cohabitation.This is not a bound,'till death do us part'or'in sickness & in health' or 'in richness and poor'.It didn't worked in Lebanon,it can work less in the land of 60 years war. Fresh idea ? Few of them left.May be Jordan is Palestine?.Take the Mandate to Court ?Try..it worth a try.

The funny part is that it is Israel who is being made SOLELY responsible for this 23rd Arab State to be in her territory, while Saudis sit quietly on the fence when with a flip of the finger they could solve the whole problem. They have the land and they have the finances... and let us not forget they are also responsible! For the sake of Peace, 'Arabs with Arabs' and not 'Arabs with Jews' - which is the worst possible scanario for there can never be Peace. What dees George Bush care - it wont be his problem for much longer! They must be laughing inwardly with glee. But Saudis do not want to. It pleases them enormously to see Israel being pushed to take on the whole burden of Arab Refugees on her soulder

i know i know they all hated the jews.but who was the absolute worst?

Rice is the new divinity in Jerusalem. I thought that jews are more clever than that. They should do everything to be accepted in this region. This regin needs Peace not war and haterd. They can achiev that now before itis too late

The eventual end game for the PalArabs is the end of the state of Israel. The lefties and anti-Jewish folk who submit posts on this site just won't admit it.

I agree with You regarding the road maps stage one, I also agree with You regarding the rocket threat, but I find it hard to see an alternative, -I do absolutely NOT want to see Israel being blackmailed into something that`s bad for her just to save Bush`s legacy ! I believe we agreed yesterday that Israel enjoys the same existential rights to national security as all other U.N. member nations, so what Israel needs in order to make territorial concessions, is once again confidence building measures from the PA. Perhaps a formula for simultanous dismantling of illegal settlements in Judea & Samaria by I.D.F. with Abbas using his 30.000 strong armed force disarming Hamas in Gaza could be worked out in Annapolis ? (I`m not sure of what shape that PA police force is in nowadays) That at least would ensure two-way confidence building, I believe that`s what`s most needed right now. -A starting point for both parties ! Without compromising our security needs.

to a photo op. Ha ha ha what a phony bunch of war criminals takes centre stage and there you have it -NO time line -NO joint declaration -No discussion on statehood. and G-d forbid if the Syrians show up, -NO talk on the Golan Heights. Looks like the Hamas was right all along, it is a sham.

Do the Arabs in general and the Palestinian Arabs in particular accept Israel's existence here as a right or just a fact! Israel of course was proclaimed based on the UN resolutions and on the basis of the rights of peoples to national slef-determination and statehood. Yet, as of today no Arab leader has accepted this right; some have only accepted the fact that Israel is here, while at the same time still attempting to eliminate it. If the Palestinian Arab leadership can not bring itself to recognize Israel's right and to declare it in Arabic, Hebrew and English, I for one will have no trust in this leadership that it will not attempt once again to annihilate the Jewish state, and I suspect few if any Israelis will have any trust in this Arab leadership. And without trust, they should not expect us to take risks.

Jonathan Why then should he not be indicted for this? Not only by the egregious denial of the "Holocaust" but also fabricating his fraudulent academic title. Off to the "Hague" with him if Ms.Rice or Pres'Bush had any guts to out him...

I do believe Chris asked for a neutral and credible source.Davd Horowitz hardly fits that bill. Try a little harder.

"Let`s talk about maybe talking if there is an option in the future to talk about things that maybe it`s to early to talk about but still not to late to set a time frame for when it could be considered to maybe be the right time to talk about it and then I*M NOT PROMISING ANYTHING JUST YET BUT ALSO NOT RULING ANYTHING OUT BECAUSE Israel want peace and we are ready to talk to anybody and when only the chance presents itself then we will consider any offer to talk about anything that would be ..

much more powerful (Prayer Warrior) If you think prayers will solve the problems then I think you are praying to the wrong GOD.He/She cannot hear us,because(He/She)is sick with the people he created. Okay let us pray and say AMEN.Will it help? I don't think so.Not by a long chalk sorry..

Hi Ballistic, please be a little sensitive with Channah S.She would never have figured out that the US money going to Eygpt was ptotection money for Israel. Let,s see what her reaction will be.The usual trailer park response, I bet. Regards.

Don Camillo, even for the Palestinians themselves that peculiar fluke Hamas "victory" in the 2006 elections is already becoming passe.

Let us get specific, Chanah: What are these vaunted benefits the US receives by its blanket support for Israel? The relationship has been a one - way street since the founding of Israel. The US gives and Israel takes. And the Israeli lobby ensures that the status quo ante prevails. Our support for Israel is one of the chief reasons why Americans are so despised in the Arab world, if not elsewhere. This creates an environment conducive to alienation and terror, something obviously harmful to America's greater geopolitical interests, as recently poihted out in The Israeli Lobby and US Foreign Policy by Mearsheimer and Walt. Because of this lobby, Israel can continue to steal Palestinian land and build settlements, assasinate Palestinians (and justify this by calling them terrorists) and turn its nose when the US pleads for moderation or for compliance with UN resolutions calling for withdrawal for occupied terrorities (ostensibly still the basis for US policy on the ME).

National TV has shown tonight that the public fortified block units installed throughout Sderot for immediate refuge from quassams have walls 20cm wide , when the IDF blue print shows that the walls must be 40 cm wide to be quassams proof . wich means that the installed units with walls 20 cm wide are not quassams proof implying that if 10 persons for example take refuge in such unit during an alert then the quassam hitting the said unit will blow up to pieces 10 persons and the unit . National TV also said that there was no proper public tender for the said units project . National TV said not a word if arabised human rights groups petitions would be filed to arabised High Court against such public scam since Sderot has a neighborhood were a lot of its residents are arabs collaborators who moved there after its jewish residents fled from the quassams threat .

I'll say one thing for Condi; she sure knows how to cause a nasty traffic jam. Seriously, do you need that many cars? I counted 1 limo, 5 huge, black Suburban SUVs, and about dozen police cars, all strolling down King George Street today, while the rest of waited 15 minutes to move one block forward. Oh well, what are you going to do?

Natallie, you're distorting the sanctions issue spitefully. Personally I'm not at all keen on sanctions as a tool, but if Israel does impose sanctions it is indeed so that the man-in-the-street will protest vociferously to those in Hamas who are actually the root-of-all-evil for both our people.

you wrote----"However, based on the Court`s decision, and if the government believes that the population registry issue was decisive for the Court (if it decides Gaza is occupied), then the government might weigh all the plusses and minuses and agree to give up its control on the pop. registry and ask the Court to reverse its decision." Thanks. Lets hope they do decide it is occupied if and when it comes up.I do not see any chance of movement until after Bush is gone, so all of these other activities will be best under way.Perhaps some might be decided by the arrival of next attempts at peace.

May your prayers be set before the lord like incense.

They are Counter-Productive and are Punishments. They make matters worse. We need Incentives and NOT constant punishments and sanctions or the threat of sanctions.

or have some wine, get some rest. Maybe you'll feel better tomorrow.

Olmert reiterated that serious negotiations on Palestinian statehood would take place only after Annapolis. also...Syrian officials could attend the conference if Damascus did not seek to address the Golan Heights. EVERYONE knows that Israel will not negotiate anything significant.

You seem to have got the spirit of it all just right. Well put

Bush does not want peace because he knows instability in the Mideast raises the price of oil. He does not want to leave Iraq because he and his wealthy friends are making HUGE profits in Iraq! Blackwater Usa, Dyncorp,Halliburton

You wrote----"Tell Your Labharse-Labhras companion that I`m DEFINATELY more jewish than swedish & that I hold him in contempt for his manipulative dishonesty !" 1, What manipulative dishonesty.If my country was entangled in a 40 year illegal occupation,I would be calling for an end to it. 2, If my country was involved in a war of survival,I would be there to support her in what ever way I was capable. We both know which one applies to you and which part of that,does not. As to holding me in contempt, well sorry, but given that your honour,s own manipulative disregard for international Law and support for the brutal occupation of the Palestinian People,I dont really assign a great deal of credence to your contempt. Please find me one post by Margie, that offers peace to the Palestinians on any basis other than total capitulation.

Lieberman says If Olmert raises core issues, then he resigns along with Shas. So Lieberman eats his words as olmert incredibly destroys israel by conceding everything. Arabs don't have to do anything-zero. Also, if Syria shows up, then they get back all of the golan and possibly sheba farms.God is the only one left who can rescue Israel from Olmert and Ramon. Israel will become a province of the arab country of palestine.

http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/Read.aspx?GUID={FFC2DC9C-82D3-4A6A-9B9B-1FE22B9C5BD4} (Surely you te teacher should be able to find the information yourself).

I was hoping that the recent war in Lebanon would bring all the parties to the peace table. I am afraid it will take huges amount of death and destruction before there will be real peace. Unfortunately, it will take massive devastation to bring peace to the entire region. When the destruction is so great, the only option can be peace. Do you agree?

was obtained and passed at the Institute of Oriental Studies in Moscow (USSR - 1982)

in many known and unknown ways'. Right you are about that. The only country who is in the coalition over there is Palau; I think Micronasia pulled out when they didn't get a check. Despite lip service by Europe to Dubya, nobody is willing to follow him willy nilly into bombing Iran for Israel. US is on everybody's shit list. BTW; money to Egypt is to keep the homies in check and Mubarek in power so as not to beef with Israel. Israel's nonsense and her clarion calls to bomb Iran are on hold as Pakistan is in a state of emergency and Condi is biting her nails as to what will happen to their nukes, esp since the army which has support Musharaf appears to be splitting off, according to her. I do believe that Pal state is gonna come by popular demand, Dubya's, and very soon. What will happen with their nuke? Suddenly Iran and Israel find themselves on the back burner, but the Pal state is still percolating on a burner, almost over and done and whether you guys agree or not. Regards

It all depends on how and where one makes a declaration. Yesterday many folk in Israel almost had an apoplexy because Olmert uttered that it would take a year to tackle with the nitty-gritty of the core issues. Today, at the Saban simcha, Olmert declared that in 2008 there will be a peace deal with the Pals, and within a few mins it was "BREAKING NEWS" in capital letters on British SKY NEWS....

Jonathan S How much further down the sewer will Rice descend? Selling Israel down the river! What some people will do for gaining notoriety before they leave office and trying to come out smelling like roses.But if they do I hope the "Roses"will have many thorns to prick them and make them bleed profusely. I hate to repeat what you said,the comparison of Abass(the Holocaust denier)with Martin L.King?and the dreadful Jimmy Carter to boot,says it all. Jonathan,I fervently hope that the Annapolis does not succeed because it will be a further down the spiral for our precious Israel.I am dreading the outcome even before it begins. I hope Olmert and Livni sees the light of day and not fall for empty promises.

"Mercy and truth are met together; righteousness and peace have kissed each other." Psalm 85:10 Pray God's wisdom and grace upon ALL these leaders; Pray God's hand upon each heart, His Love to consume this Summit and for His Glory to be over all the Earth. Praise Him for the Blessed hope we find in His Word in these dark days. God is Good, His Mercy endures forever!

YOU ARE THE BIG FRAUD !! -AND A DISHONEST MANIPULATIVE STALKER & HYENA !!!! -YES, I`m definately much more jewish than swedish, my answer to yesterday`s inquiry of yours !! It`s despicable of YOU to claim that Margie is a racist because she comes from South Africa, everybody here exept Your "admirer" sees You for what You are !!

The thesis of Abbas was held in Moscow, it makes a horrible reading. He could be indicted not only for Holocaust denying but also for obtaining an academic title by fraud.

As we all know, Abbas is a Holocaust denier. The subject of his thesis was that the Holocaust never happened the way it is presented. Abbas tried to prove with pseudoscientific methods that between 300.000 to 900.000 Jews were killed by the Germans and their allies, and that the Holocaust myth served to establish Israel. Would he be a man of honour, he would admit that he made a mistake and revoke his thesis, what he never did. He is thus standing in one front together with Ahmadinejad, Irving, Zuendel or Faurisson. Very soon, he will be in bed together with Hanijeh and Hamas, of course only after Olmert will have made all his foolish concessions.

Antoine Your assumption that Margie said does not apply to me.You can ask her if you wish. So,Antoine,your unnecessary reply was just that.You are applying biggotry to the wrong person.I just say nice try but! NO CIGAR

I didn`t know, that You are a religious fundamentalist, but You are ! "the sins of their fathers shalt be visited upon the children".... -Livni is absolutely right to focus on security for Israel, that`s her honor bound duty ! You don`t want any compromise for peace, You want us jews to give up, cave in & give the arabs all they want ! -YOU sir, are NOT for peace, Margie IS !!! Tell Your Labharse-Labhras companion that I`m DEFINATELY more jewish than swedish & that I hold him in contempt for his manipulative dishonesty !

Obviously this "Esther" is not me....

If then Israel would be fully content. Abbas will show up without the time line, Jordan and Egypt will be ordered there by the US , that's it. That's the "Annapolis Summit". One can only laugh in despair at the impotence of this American administration. Here they had an excellent opportunity to achieve something and instead makes it clear as crystal that bugger all will be achieved and now for the yarn to be spun. "The most important summit in our generation", "Bush invest his legacy" when it is: "Let's talk about maybe talking if there is an option in the future to talk about things that maybe it's to early to talk about but still not to late to set a time frame for when it could be considered to maybe be the right time to talk about it and then I*M NOT PROMISING ANYTHING JUST YET BUT ALSO NOT RULING ANYTHING OUT BECAUSE Israel want peace and we are ready to talk to anybody and when only the chance presents itself then we will consider any offer to talk about anything that would be ..

Antoine Sorry,your misconseption has gone haywire. I do not come into the category of Margie's comments and she would know that for sure. You Antoine are mistaken,and after deciding to reply unnecessarily you discredit yoursef. So, I'll say nice try but NO CIGAR

-el. For a condo in Florida,it's sufficient for this criminal.

You wrote----"THE US DOESN`T WANT TERRORIST PALESTATE,BUT ISRAEL HAS TO SAY NO!" so what is you problem,?????.

which is all about denying Holocaust. And it passed! Don't know in what university? Maybe the Teheran University? Has Abbas "seen the light" or is he two-faced? How reliable can such a "quick" coat-turner be?

How long non-Jews will continue to opress Jews? How long civilized Europe will keep silence about how Europian nations suppressed JEW and kep them out of their original Land, Eretz Israel? Arab extremists must understand that they lost their opportunity in 1948. "Pal Arabs" can have only small mini states (2 or 3)incorporated in Israel industry and economy.

"Will the Court order Israel to return the "Population Registry", if it decides Israel is not an occupier." - Labhras The simple answer is that the Court will look at the situation as it is, which is supposedly required by security needs, and on this basis will make the determination. Therefore, it will not order the IDF to make changes. However, based on the Court's decision, and if the government believes that the population registry issue was decisive for the Court (if it decides Gaza is occupied), then the government might weigh all the plusses and minuses and agree to give up its control on the pop. registry and ask the Court to reverse its decision.

...call their participation in Annapolis "Saudi-lobbying", if you like.

"Officials in Jerusalem said that "Israel has no problem with American supervision that is in line with the road map" Wow! Really? What a concession!! How magnanimous!!

Maybe you want to deny his Phd and book!!! http://www.wymaninstitute.org/articles/2004-denialreport.php Yassin, identified as a ?Palestinian politician,? said that ?there is doubt as to the truth of this story [of the Holocaust],? and referred to the Ph.D. dissertation--later published as a book--by former Palestinian Authority prime minister Mahmoud Abbas, denying the Holocaust.

I wonder why Israel doesn't stop stalling? After Rices success in Gaza we can see what the Palestinians will do. They just needed Gaza to demonstrate their statesmanship! Way to go Condi we just need the same on the West bank. After all look at what Abbas is promising and how effective he has been in rallying the Palestinians for peace. For a glimpse of our future read the Amnesty International Report: Quote: ?Interfactional fighting between Hamas and Fatah forces in the Gaza Strip earlier this year left 350 Palestinians dead and has been followed by further serious abuses in both the Gaza Strip and the West Bank,?? Quote: ?the report blames security forces loyal to Palestinian Authority (PA) President Mahmoud Abbas of arbitrarily detaining hundreds of Hamas supporters but of failing to take action against Fatah militants responsible for abductions, arson and other attacks?? Its just those illegal settlements that are stopping this Palestinian State from blossoming all around us.

You are not worthy niether for security nor peace, you are untrustfull.

Antoine B And Margie was not applying it to the likes of me you see.Because she knows I don't fall into that category. So there goes your false presumption,and I say you tried but failed,and failed miserably. Sorry No Cigar

*Will Abbas make Hamas in Gaza stop the rocket-fire to the sovereign Israeli territory? *Will Abbas, with his proper hands, tear the Charters, too, which call for Israel's destruction? *Will Abbas stop Mickey, the terrorist-Mouse, and "educating" their children to believe, that "martyrdom is more important than peace"? source: seconddraft.org, "Icon of Hatred". ALL these points are a menace to Israel's security!

Will the Court order Israel to return the "Population Registry", if it decides Israel is not an occupier. For a start.

"I wrote in detail about the Holocaust and said I did not want to discuss numbers. I quoted an argument between historians in which various numbers of casualties were mentioned. One wrote there were 12 million victims and another wrote there were 800,000. I have no desire to argue with the figures. The Holocaust was a terrible, unforgivable crime against the Jewish nation, a crime against humanity that cannot be accepted by humankind. The Holocaust was a terrible thing and nobody can claim I denied it." The words of Mahmoud Abbas in a Haaretz interview in 2003. Jonathan can you tell me where he denies the Holocaust?

"The sanctions Israel has imposed on civilians and the state will not cause a humanitarian crisis in the [Gaza] strip" Is it a crisis only when people drop dead in the streets? "...that Israel's security must be assured before a Palestinian state can be created" Lifting the occupation will serve peace better than fog-horning "no peace before security" "There are differences of opinion over the road map" Sure, but for illiterates only. "...we have a shared interest with the moderates" Israel should have said that when Arafat was still around. Too late now Israel's policies have radicalized Palestinian as well as its own society.

As the London Times has reported today, Saudi Arabia is not only a hub for world terror, but the kingdom provides the cash and the killers too. More than half of the terrorist insurgents in Iraq are from the kingdom and they are the most uncompromising. Not a single Saudi declared by the UN or the US to finance terror has been prosecuted by Saudi authorities. Yet despite all the alarming facts, Condoleezza Rice is warning against pressuring the kingdom. Israel will have to pay a price in advance, before the meeting starts, so that this nice kingdom will attend Annapolis at all. And Israel will also have to pay in advance so that the killers of Hariri will attend the summit. Have Jews forgotten that they would never again go like sheep to the slaughter? This is all Annapolis is about.

Wow that is surely an offer that the Syrians will jump all over. If it wasn't for a sneaky feeling that the US/Israel may not want the Syrians to attend but just offered this "invitation" to appease some Arabs countries that have called for the Syrians to be allowed to come to Annapolis, I would believe the sincerity of Rice/Olmert. If the Israelis are serious about peace then talk to the Syrians of how to get the hell out of Syria. If Condoleezza is ever to achieve anything but waiving, she should act like a secretary of state and not like some voodoo doll waiving every time the Israeli junta puts another nail into the peace coffin. Act like it should become an American Secretary of State for crying out loud.

Barak openly admits that the envisaged sanctions are completely ridiculous and will not change a jota of the current situation. Has no one the courage to say this obvious truth? Without entering Gaza and crippling the power of Hamas, the advanced missile launcher of Ahmadinejad, the children of Sderot will still come under rocket attacks and Sderot homes will be out of power. This is really absurd: Sderot homes are without power due to rockets hitting power lines, and there is a huge discussion for weeks including the AG if power to Gaza should be cut by a few percent. What has become out of Ehud Barak? Another Ehud, Olmert?

Labhras The Police Service of Northern Ireland has begun an investigation into a gun attack on a house in Antrim last night. Two people escaped unharmed during the shooting. A number of shots were fired around 9.30pm last night at a car and house in the Steeple area of the town. Police have yet to establish a motive. Labhras please tell the police it is Just your old ways itching to come out!

US Secretary of State really compares Holocaust denier Abbas with Martin Luther King. This is really ironic because the great American leader has on many occasions condemned the denial of the Holocaust. Mrs. Rice is also seeking advice from one of the bitterest enemies of Israel and one of the worst US presidents since WWII, Jimmy Carter. And Israel will face at Annapolis its most wily enemy, the EU, which for years has tried to provide the mullahs in Tehran with the necessary technology to build nuclear weapons. As all senior Israeli diplomats have warned, Annapolis will be the greatest nightmare for Israel since Yom Kippur 1973. And to allow Olmert and Livni to attend, given their record, borders insanity.

wrote----"the perfidious albion moved the goalposts so many times after the balfour declaration they are all total nonsense." And guess what Victor Paul.It still is nonsense.There is a big wall seperating your Mandate but it was not churchill who put it there. Read your beanos and dandies.They are closer to 'reality' than your 1922/1923/1924, (or which ever date you chose)silly mandate rantings are.

This is where Moses was wondering around for 40 years.

Paul harris wrote------"actually old chap im a british subject". You are in a unique position. 1, As Paul Harris you are going to become a Palestinian,when the one state solution arrives. 2,As victor Hardhead you are going to become a ciitzen of the new 32 county Republic. On a losing streak, no matter which role you chose to play. Tough titties old chap.

Let me quote 'Margie in Tel Aviv': -"We are experienced here in noticing the pronouncements of racists and bigots and you fall nicely into that category."-

Seeing as you are NOT one, what is bothering you. Does it bother you that the US gives Egypt a yearly stipend of millions (check the amount) without getting anything in return, or that the entire African continent is propped up by the US, and tat most of that cash someow finds its way in to the bank accounts of there venerable leaders? Doesn't bother you an iota, I\ll bet. Yet there are very close commercial, economic and security relations between the US and ISrael, and the benefit to the US of these is something both overt and covert. Firstly US aid covers but a fraction of Israeli's security needs and second, Israel is probably the ONLY receipient of US aid in the world that can be considered beneficial to the US as Israel repays in many known and unknown ways. So perhaps you should get off that horse and start looking for another, more useful one to climb on - like telling your mates the Gazans to stop attacking Israel (not least for their own benefit). You're becoming boring

Chaim Just imagine if that had happened.So ridiculous that the allies would just simply surrendered by puting their hands to pacify the enemy.

Second classs citizensship of what? They were offered their OWN STATE in 1948 and in 2000. What is so hard to understand?

Scott And they lost their chance of getting peace. Think about it..

Sanctions create shortages of supply in certain items. This drives the prices up. This means that only the rich and powerful will avoid the shortages, while the poor feel the full force. The people that are least affected by the sanctions are those that make the policies, decisions, etc, that brought about the sanctions. To Israelis, this doesn't matter. If the Arab poor are suffering, this is better than no Arab suffering.

We could construct a retirement home in Sderot for them, since they don't think it's so bad there. Labhras, Linthwaite, Clickfool and this Scott Hunter person I've just replied to could form the garin and build it up in true halutz style.

We are experienced here in noticing the pronouncements of racists and bigots and you fall nicely into that category.

Israel keeps looking for reasons not to withdraw..they want the land and the water..period..the truth is they will never let go and they will never have peace..sad

you wrote----- "Oh, and by the way, before Labhras becomes our next Minister of Transportation who is eager to send all off to a Better Place (????)I`m offering him front row seats on the northern border, but I doubt he could take the racket for long and he`d go scuttling off. These people who sit far away really don`t have an iota of knowledge about the wars they are always screaming about and waiting for. If they did, maybe they`d shut up." I dont wish to get into any arguments with you as I am aware that notwithstanding your address, I do believe you want a "just" peace.Analyze Margerine,s posts,you will see you are in bad company.She will bring you the wars you accuse me of wanting, and a "One State Solution.Consider her newfound friends "Gabe and peter". BTW not interested in your job offer.Would not want to run a racist policy.Jews only Settlements and roads.Not to my somewhat finnicky taste.Some people seem comfortable with those "Arrangements".Not me.

"No general penalty, pecuniary or otherwise, shall be inflicted upon the population on account of the acts of individuals for which they cannot be regarded as jointly and severally responsible." - Article 50, 4th Hague Convention (1907) Unlike the Geneva Convention, which requires an Israeli enabling law for it to become the Law of the Land (and such a law has not been enacted), the Hague Convention is part of International Humanitarian Law and is obligatory. In order to prohibit the State from imposing electricity and fuel shortages on Gaza, the Supreme Court will have to find: 1. That Gaza is an Occupied Territory by Israel. 2. That the measures taken by the IDF amount to Collective punishment. I personally believe that these two statements are true. However, it is possible the Court will find a way out. Example: As Vilnai said, the measures are taken to teach Gaza not to rely on Israeli supplies. Of course, the Court may ask: Then why don`t you allow fuel to be imported from Egypt? Eventually, the Court may set some parameters. But if they are honest, they will not play the game.

You have to ask the question, "Will Livni stand strong?". Livni never has stood strong. Why would she start now? Agreeing to a new Arab terror state in the heart of Israel isn't standing strong. Agreeing to reduce our nation's waist to an incredible ten miles isn't standing strong. Nothing Livni does is standing strong. Only Israel can stand strong and depose this evil government and stop it's suicidal plans for Israel.

Annapolis will yield nothing because Livni and others are too scared of the concept of peace and a viable Palestinian State to want peace. What might be fair and even-handed is that Israel too should meet the many obligations set it since Oslo, but which we in the yellow-bellied, craven and cowardly West are too scared to require of the Knesset. Israel cannot ignore the 2006 election result. By declaring Hamas beyond the pale and trying to broker a Pax Judeai with Pals in the west bank only, Israel would ensure the continuation of the cycle of violence. The Knesset needs to make peace with all the Pals not just half of them.

Imagine if Winston Churchill thought the way Barak does. Imagine Churchill saying,"Dear me. We really should defeat those Nazis. But we must be sure that any bombs we drop on Germany won't cause a humanitarian crisis". What would have happened? We would have lost the war, of course. When Gaza terrorists fire rockets at us, there SHOULD be a humanitarian crisis. It is entirely the fault of those who fire the rockets. Of course, it was insane for us to leave Gaza in the first place.

crisis, but will encourage sensible increase of babies output , barak seems not to take this in his strategic considerations.

labarat and the irish tinker act ! actually old chap im a british subject !

the perfidious albion moved the goalposts so many times after the balfour declaration they are all total nonsense. the mandate was separated by winston churchill in 1923 for an arab state in transjordan !

and they lost their chance of getting peace." Yoel Marcus Reference “Good-bye, giants of 1948”, by Yoel Marcus, Ha’aretz, January 6, 2006.

Teach children??? What does he teach, home economics? Oh, and by the way, before Labhras becomes our next Minister of Transportation who is eager to send all off to a Better Place (????)I'm offering him front row seats on the northern border, but I doubt he could take the racket for long and he'd go scuttling off. These people who sit far away really don't have an iota of knowledge about the wars they are always screaming about and waiting for. If they did, maybe they'd shut up.

and they lost their chance of getting peace.

Dear primate.Israel is not involved in land theft.Years before the Arabs arrived Jews were living in the promised land.Whilst the locals in Sussex were swinging from trees there was a developed culture in the ME. Obviously you need to read a site I came across : www.boycottisrael.org.uk and try and learn something ...pass him a banana..that clickfool

Rice must blind & dumb to not see the current crisis in Gaza caused by Israel.

Your dreams of a single State are soon to be fulfilled. Paul you had best start packing your bits and pieces, unless you want to be a citizen of Palestine".

did you miss that somehow ? perhaps the only representative of a party. who does Abbu Mazen represent? Not the Palestinians and that's for sure.

you wrote-----"Linthwaite`s pristine ignorance and his spelling mistakes are his security blanket. He is determined to retain them both. Pity they didn`t examine his integrity and his ability to absorb information correctly before allowing him to teach children." This from the "person" who thinks there is such a word as "Emptinesses".That,s pretty rich and you are a teacher,hmmm.Even richer than we thought.I guess you and Chris have 2 things in common,sadly for him. As for integrity--I doubt that Chris Lintwaithe "doctors' other people,s post to try to misrepresent them.You do, and that makes you a fraud and a liar.

but you made us smile :-) thank you!

Kassams are rainning on Sderot, and our politics are talking about humanitarian crisis in Gaza. What kind of people are we, we are nursing murderers, crookcks are ruling the country and our policy is decided outside Israel. Stop. We know the end of the story with Arabs, war, war, war. Hey leftists, Israelis wake up. Time is running. We need to get rid of Olmert, Peres, Barak, Ramon and all the other crooks.

shame on you for not fulfilling you're stated purpose :-( 'Stalled' meant that the Palestinians have not yet committed themselves to stopping violence. Perhaps you didn't realize the kassams are still falling like confetti?! Or perhaps you didn't realize that Gazans are Palestinians too?! Mike "Women are like translations: the beautiful are not faithful, and the faithful are not beautiful." George Bernard Shaw

far too many.the atrocities are all shown in detail at "atrocities ireland". bloodthirsty lot the irish.

Tzfonit is the bright star on the sky. The Palestinian misgovernment I and II are just not the medicine the suffering Palestinian people need. The Medicine could be called Willy Brandt or Ferenc Deak. Both have reformed a militant tradition and brought respectability to Germany and Hungary. 1. Corrupt elements were leeching the economics.They ended it. 2. Militant hotheads were seeking revenge and recovery of lost territories. They compromised. 3. Neighbors were mistrusted. They became friends. Look up Wikipedia on Deak and Brandt. ..........and perform the same operation on the ailing Iranians!

Hi Chris, what you omitted was the US finger on the UN veto button.Without that,Israel would have been toast along time ago. They also believe that Israel in it,s present state is "Sound". Israel, "in it,s present state" will not survive 20 years.Nor should it.The one State solution is not that far away and then we can respond to "Margie in ??????". Incidentally I did not see any "Ad Hominem" in your post.I guess they have upped the ante.Any disagreement is now Ad Hominem.How weak their arguments are getting and desperation is setting in.

Bush started floating the idea of the Roadmap in 2002, and it was officially issued on 1 May 2003. The first phase was to be completed by 31 May, 2003 (in 30 days). This did not happen until now. There is a reason for this; the concept of the Roadmap is basically flawed. We shouldn`t expect phase 1 to happen until Bush leaves office, when the entire Roadmap will be thrown into the trash heap of history, along with Bush himself. The Palestinians are expected to first dismantle all terror organizations. But once they do that, they lose any real influence on the outcome of peace talks. Why would Israel take their desires into account anymore? Such an act is not the way national liberation movements take. They first have peace talks, with a cease fire agreed to during the talks, and then as part of the implementation of the peace agreement they disarm. Indeed, the IRA let its arms be collected and kept by a third party until it was clear that the other side was also fulfilling its obligations. It is telling that even now, when Gaza is not included in the terror dismantlement, the PA does not fight vigorously the terror organizations in the West Bank. Their officers lack the motivation to do it. What will happen tomorrow if the peace talks are stuck?

THAT THE PEOPLE OF ISRAEL WHOM YOU ARE SUPPOSED TO REPRESENT - IT IS THEY WHO HAVE THE HUMANITARIAN CRISIS - THEY ARE BEING BOMBED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The Roadmap is a bad idea for the Palestinians, but also for Israel. And Livni is pointing to a problem that Israel should be concerned about. The Roadmap has in stage one the dismantlement of the terror organizations, plus removal of outposts and stopping all settlement activity (including natural growth). The core of stage two is: "Creation of an independent Palestinian state with provisional borders through a process of Israeli-Palestinian engagement, launched by the international conference. As part of this process, implementation of prior agreements, to enhance maximum territorial contiguity, including further action on settlements in conjunction with establishment of a Palestinian state with provisional borders." Here is the problem for Israel. Creation of such a state before an anti-rocket system is in place will endanger millions of Israeli living in central Israel (Tel Aviv area) and Jerusalem. It should not be done. From the Palestinian point of view, they know that provisional borders can become permanent through endless delay. Indeed, the chief negotiator (Qureia) does not want this phase either. If none of the sides likes it, why adopt this stupidity that caused the peace process to stall since its pronouncement? Is it only to make Bush feel happy that he contributed something?

wrote-----"Israel would benefit the most greatly of all if there were peace.". So what are you waiting for.Start by calling for an end to the Illegal Settlement Expansion. You wrote-----"Your posting is still ad hominem and your attitude is still despicable". Written just like a true white supremacist.Did you treat your "Caffers" to your "Ad Hominem" in your former despicable life. You are a joke and a fraud,Margerine.

Gershon Hamastan is. No electricity, no petrol and no other supplies and produce should be permitted into the Gaza Strip. None. Absolutely correct.We have no obligation toward them whatever.We are not their relations,not their parents. Israel first and formost has to look after itself which we need much to afford a better life.Instead of our great expenditure for the military and armaments we could have a more affluent society instead of having to pay high taxes and unable to live a normal life. people seem to think we live in luxury.Ignorants are the ones who seem to think we are all very rich and living the high life. Pathetic..

Linthwaite's pristine ignorance and his spelling mistakes are his security blanket. He is determined to retain them both. Pity they didn't examine his integrity and his ability to absorb information correctly before allowing him to teach children.

The British Mandate favoured this idea. In the 1939 White Paper the UK govt. said: 'The objective of His Majesty's Government is the establishment within 10 years of an independent Palestine State in such treaty relations with the United Kingdom as will provide satisfactorily for the commercial and strategic requirements of both countries in the future. [..] The independent State should be one in which Arabs and Jews share government in such a way as to ensure that the essential interests of each community are safeguarded.'

Let Israel make a clear offer that details under what conditions things will happen. Saying that security is paramount is obvious. But it should not be used as an excuse to sit on one's hands. Are the Palestinian negotiators refusing to meet until the wall is removed or the blockade of Gaza dismantled? Don't let the "need for security" become a further roadblock when I don't think any sane person in Abbas' team would argue with it.

I don?t know what makes you think that Israelis live a cozy life, but it?s quite evident that you are more than a bit ignorant of what life is like here. If we didn?t have to spend so much money on defense, we would not be so heavily taxed and would be able to spend more of our government money on education, health and welfare. Do you think everyone here lives in luxury? If America were seeing to Israel?s interests as much as her own in her constant meddling in the Middle East, things would be quite different here and we might have had peace long ago. For a country that has had to put up with sixty years of constant war and aggression, we?ve done very well thank you, and not due to America?s help. And last but not least, curtesy should be courtesy and recieves should be receives. You not only need some brushing up on the facts, you also need to learn how to spell....

Nechama Thank God for Eitan Livni,Begin.Shamir and even Avraham Stern of Lehi Z'l.If not for them who had managed to throw out the British we would till be subjugated by the cynical Brits. Sour grapes by some here calling Tzipi Livni daughter of a terrorist. Our heroes did a marvelous job and may they rest in peae for ever...

If you take a closer look at the conditions actually prevailing in the territories you will realise that it is virtually impossible for an underfinanced PA to enforce security in this non-contiguous area that is divided into strictly isolated enclaves, islands in an Israeli-controlled ocean. Israel disables the PA and blames them at the same time for the resulting disability which in turn serves as an excuse to avoid progress in a peace process that actually isnt taking place at all. An eventual peace would be a very dry peace for Israel that is consuming 330 liters of water per person and day (the Palestinians have to be contend with 60 liters). Two thirds of the water consumed in Israel come from the territories (which is the true reason for the occupation, in fact for the entire 1967 war). Need I tell you more? Do you want peace without water? Say you do!!

Hamastan is. No electricity, no petrol and no other supplies and produce should be permitted into the Gaza Strip. None. If they wish to murder our people and do all that they can to carry out their goal, there is no reason on earth why we should sustain them in preparing their murder fields of the civilian population of the Jewish state of Israel.

in 1923 it was called transjordan and is now jordan there is no need for afurther state and all arabs should transfer there !

Of all posters you should be the gladdest that posters are not subjected to intelligence tests.

Israel wants peace and it is only the Palestinians refusal to agree to that which causes any stalling in the proceedings. No peace for Israel, no state for the Palestinians in which to breed more bombers and build weapons with which to attack innocent Israeli's with.

Margie Israel does not want peace. Because with peace the amount that Israel recieves curtesy of the American Taxpayer will be reduced. And Israel cannot survive without American tax dollars and European trading Status. Israelis have led the cosy life for so long protected from the real world they actually think that their state in it's current format is financially sound. Israel will downsize, the question is How much will it cost the International Community? That is what Livni (the daughter of a terrorist) is negotiating with Condie this weekend.

it becomes increasingly obvious that posters should be submitted to intelligence tests before posting ! next time you fly tell this the content of your post to the security staff when they check you in

saying you are not margieintelaviv. I have neighter seen nor heard about what israel is going to invest in the palestinian state along borders, refugees, future relationship with a palestinian state,... only the denial of those mentioned above.

What are the Palestinians talking about? In the first phase they are to make an effort to fight terrorism and disband armed groups from controlling the street. This is not only a requirement in Phase One but something that will improve the well-being of all Palestinians. In turn, Israel is to remove illegal settlements

"You stop resisting our land theft and violence and at some point in the future we might get round to thinking about a timetable for possible talks about a Palestinian state."

I knew you could come up with a "peaceful" solution.

citizenship.

to give you security.

Israel would benefit the most greatly of all if there were peace. Your posting is still ad hominem and your attitude is still despicable.

The Israeli government uses the security issue to avoid any settlement of the conflect. I am not sure what security means to Israel other than complete control of Palestinian land and life, which means no Palestinian state. The Israeli government is not in the peace making business, the mere talk about peace is threatening the collapse of the current government, that tells me that the Israeli Jews are not ready to give up their complete domination of Palestinians life.

There`s already a homeland for the pallies; Jordan! Too true and no doubt about it..

How Pal State can be established if Israel does not have a strong partner, when "Pal people" divided by different political forces, and how Israel can be agreed for division of own state to two pieces or more? Why Rice and LIvni need this empty talk?

Security is one of those vague terms that can never be fully defined and therefore it can never be fully achieved, the result is a state with no progress towards peace and hence encourging radicalism that will undermine security.

"U.S. to serve as arbitrator over road map plan" The Zionist neocon administration of George Bush (a boneheaded man who once ridiculously called the war criminal, Ariel Sharon, a "man of peace") lost all claim to the title of "honest broker" years ago.

no matter what the arabs agree on paper they will never perform ever ! another 90 years until they all transfer to jordan ?

A Fakestinian state cannot been created before Arabs are sincerely willing to live at peace with Israel. So far, they proved that their are using each Israeli concession to move forward in their genocidal agenda. The so-called peace process will achieve the opposite of its theorical goal because it makes Arabs believe that they will be able to create a terror state without making peace with Israel.

There's already a homeland for the pallies; Jordan!

In other words, since it is impossible for Israel to have "assured" security - what state does, after all? - there can be no Palestinian state.

Shlomo asked "do you think Israel likes to kill innocent people?" I like to respond to his question by asking a question of my own. Do you think that the early settlers of north America liked to kill innocent old men women and children? I don't think so. But they did in order to have the land for themselves. They had to exterminate an entire race and noboby ever labeled this GENOCIDE. Unfortunatety for Israel, the Palestinins refuse to be exterminated and they have the sympathy of almost the entire world unlike the American Indians that very few in the world know they existed. If you want to convince me that ISRAEL does not like to kill innocent people the people of Israel should allow the voice of the peace movememt in Israel to be heard. Good Luck.

stalement but that "WE SHALL OVERCOME, WE SHALL OVERCOME"! Just learning about January 1948 to January 1949 events, haven't the HEART to participate in disputes who was there first. Also the "filtering" Big Brother actions, resistant even to the most up-dated Northon versions, just leave you w/o words when you've done NOTHING and intend to do NOTHING against your country. It's just too high for me.

keep refusing to even recognize Israel's right to exist without ifs ands and buts as you have been asked to do on numberous times here. Why therefore should anyone take your words with any degree of seriousness? BTW, you have also not negated to the best of my knowledge your previous statement that the Jews and the state of Israel are responsible still for the death of Jesus. And you really want to be taken seriously here?

Now, you do not really expect Cockroach Condi, the godmother of Qana, to do anything that would actually be fair, impartial, and effective. Just look at the record....Qana Rice was asleep at the switch for the events of 9/11. I wonder what is her specialty (PHD)....underwater basketweaving???

Livni is correct in presenting Israel's security as top priority. However, the issue of security would appear more credible in negotiations if Israel did not attempt use security as an excuse for actions that have nothing to do with security at all. Until Israelis can be assured of security from suicide bombings, the wall must remain standing, but placing it in such a way as to deliberatly impose unnessary hardships on Palestinians, or which usurps their land or water is NOT in the interest of security. Checkpoints must be present until quiet is ensured, but those that can be removed without jeopardizing security should be removed. And halting settlement expansion will not endanger Israel's security in the least. If the Palestinians are to take our security seriously, Israel must not hide behind the pretext of security in order to justify actions that are not designed to promote security and which are going to serve as roadblocks for negotiations.

Livni (the daughter of a terrorist) has waited until three weeks before the Annapolis conference is due to start to maximise the earning potential of American tax dollars for Israel. When Israel signed peace deals with both Jordan and Egypt, Israel benefitted financially from the deal. The same will happen in this case. You know it I know it. The question is not whether Israel will be downsized? The question is How much will it cost America for a two state solution? What American made aircraft does Israel want to be given? Wouldn't surprise me if Bush announces in the next fortnight the donation of a couple of squadrons of Raptors to Israel. This is the truth of the matter, and the Daughter of a Terrorist is beginning the real peace process this weekend. Margie your problem is you can't handle the reality of Israel's situation.

First of all the Israelis have not accepted the Road Map but a Zionist version of the Road Map passed in the Knesset with 14 "Reservations making it a entirely different document. As for Phase 1, the Israelis haven't done anything and if the Quartet can't see that for themselves then the UN should get out and get out know, they can hardly be a part of this charade in that case. The Russians just love to see the US being taken down a notch, by whom ever and Tony Blair should be in the Hague and not here making a complete ass of himself. Germany's apparent lust to see people suffer and Lebensraum being claimed is one thing, but that the rest of the EU is taking part in white washing Israeli aggression is strange. Is there no holding Israel to the fire and make them get the f-ck out and leave this poor people alone? Restricting baby formula, medicine and basic essentials on occupied people isn't something that the world should endorse, but condemn.

how a mature person is not ashamed to say this pretext:"the security of israel should be assured before the creation of the Palestinian state". Israeli's governament claims that a Palestinian state is an Israeli's interest ,that it has a right to keep whole the country but it give up to a part for her interest.When the implementation of this desire and interest becomes real then all that rethoric is negated and an other prime interest of Israel appears .

Margie you are SO correct....L's work must be in the drak and with limited vision on top!

I am afraid that this is just cheap talk and Israel's security will be sacrificed in order for Rice and Bush to gain support from the Arab States.

"Palestinian state only after Israel security assured" - And there you have the dilemma! There will never be security for Israel whilst millions and millions of Palestinians are denied their basic human rights - their identity and freedom. How about we begin to talk about security for both the Palestinians and Israelis? Why is it that the rights of Israelis subvert those of the Palestinians?

someone needs to tell abu mazen that the us is the last thing that can arbitrate peace. but especially in this case, the us and israel are hardly unidentical any venture involving the killing of innocent people must include the us as it is the most efficient killer machine on earth ever

Until Israel has a real world motivation to subscribe to a peace with the Palestinians, there will not be a peace. Pressure from America or Qassams upon Sderot are far from sufficient motivation. Peace can come as a result of a war which does significant damage to Israel but has the potential to much more. This war is the key to peace. Until it occurs, there will be no end to the useless "peace summits".

as sharp as thorns). Thank you for making it clear to the Linguist as well as a few other posters here, especially this Esther from Tel-Aviv who seem to refuse to recognize reality for what it is, no, for what it has been for many many years, a reality that is still with us, I regaret to say.

You start off with an ad hominem statement as a high point and degenerate from there on. Your 'own work' is an incorrect assumption about the relative value of the US contribution and the actual costs of Israeli defence. Underlying this independent thesis is the assumption that Jews will do anything for money. You remain despicable.

You turn cause into effect. The Israeli actions you describe in a far from objective manner are actually attempts to forestall or control what you call the results. Actually, terrorism and the killing of Jewish Palestinians and later Israelis came first and all the measures you deplore were an attempt to control the death culture. A peaceful Middle East will see the end of what you call Israel's 'ridiculously large arsenal'. We would be only too happy to use our budget to develop the country further, to provide better social services, to pay our teachers better (!), to encourage the advancement of sciences and the arts and to enhance our environment.

"The US Secretary of State is to have "lunch" with Ehud Olmert". Yummy.

-"US Vice President Dick Cheney confirmed on Friday that the Middle East peace conference in Annapolis, Maryland is currently scheduled for the end of November after the Thanksgiving holidays. "There is much work to be done to prepare the ground for Annapolis," Cheney said. Is that 2007 or 2008 or 2009?

The US has invested to much this time for allowing that to happen, so this is going to be a cat fight MEOOOOWWW.

Shlomo: "To defend ourselves from people who are trying to kill us"? Well yes, but then again, if you hadn't ethnically cleansed them from their homes, and weren't still building settlements in what's left of their land and annexing large swathes of it with the fence, maybe they wouldn't be so hell-bent on killing you in the first place. You seem to have a twisted notion of cause and effect. You people talk of security, as if any combination of Arab armies could actually threaten you despite your ridiculously huge arsenal. Your generals know better. That's why the apartheid wall encloses not strategic locations, but water ressources and fertile land. They at least know what they really want. But go on persecuting others because of your persecution complex, and watch history repeat its bloody cycles endlessly. Now the Palestinians have become like you: they also kill in the name of their victimhood.

and the other cohorts of Olmert are scrabbling around trying to make excuses for not having peace with the Palestinian people. Personally and this is all my own work. Israel does not want peace with the Palestinians because it will lead to a reduction of American taxpayers money that Israel recieves. As it is common knowledge that Israel can no longer survive with out this money. To get agreement Condie needs to wave a wad of greenbacks under Livni's nose. It will be amazing just how quickly Livni et al will agree to the downsizing of Israel. If the price is right.

PHASE I: Ending Terror and Violence, Normalizing Palestinian Life, and Building Palestinian Institutions * Palestinian leadership issues unequivocal statement reiterating Israel’s right to exist in peace and security and calling for an immediate end to all acts of violence against Israelis anywhere. * Israeli leadership issues unequivocal statement affirming its commitment to the two-state vision of an independent, viable, sovereign Palestinian state living in peace and security with Israel, and calling for an immediate end to violence against Palestinians anywhere. * Palestinian institution-building includes drafting a constitution for Palestinian statehood and conducting free elections. * Israel withdraws from Palestinian areas occupied since September 2000, as security progresses, freezes all settlement activity, and dismantles outposts. It takes measures to improve the Palestinian humanitarian situation.

Do you think Israel likes killing innocent people?We have to, to defend ourselves.

I doubt it will happen. The minimum the Palestinians are willing to accept is less than the maximum Israel is willing to give. And the Palestinians are unable to guarantee peace and security in return for anything they get from Israel.

Livni used the word stalled . how appropriate. The problem lies with with the translation from Linguist who states "we kind of know who is stalling". In fact we dont. Abbas is using the media to extensively to bolster his position which we are not really sure of whatb exactly he wants. He negotiates what he wants,and his demands are. Yet we do not see in the media what it is that he will bring to the table. Israel we are told must make painful decisions to support Abbas. WHY?? Abbas has not indicated what he is bringing to the table.. he is indeed stalling on doing soand rightly so because if his true position were known in advance, hamas would take him out. Borders are not a big deal, palis will get their contiguous state, refugees, they wont be settling inside ISrael any time soon if ever, they will be bought off. East Jerusalem, WAS ON THE PREVIOUS OFFER Arafat refused. No wonder its stalled Abbas brings nothing to the table

The IDF was the chief "A father and his son and neighbour". Yummy!!

by the Arabs of this land. The Arabs of this land were offere a state as early as 1937 and refused it. They were offered a state in 1947 and refused it as well. They refused to establish a state on the entire territory of the West Bank, including eastern Jerusalem and the Gaza Strip when the area was under full Arab rule between 1948 to 1967. The Arabs refused an autonomy that would have turned into statehood in 1979. Well, shall I go on? The refusal was always because they refused to enable the Jewish state of Israel to exist! Is it not time for them to finally recognize Israel's right to exist, or perhaps they feel that stalling this recognition will bring them.... the elimination of the Jewish state?

the most important element in these talks!!! The Arabs in general and Palestinian Arabs in particular have attempted for many decades to annihilate the tiny Jewish state of Israel, established based on UN resolutions and universally accepted rights. As of today they refuse to recognize Israel's righ to exist, although they do recognize the fact that it is here. Who is to guarantee that they will not attempt once again to eliminate the Jewish state? Who is to ensure Israel's existence and the existence of its Jewish community but Israelis, based on such security arrangements that will cause our present enemies to think many times before they attempt once again such a thing. Tzipi Livni is absolutely right to insist that terror stop, that the Jordan valley will remain in Israel's hands for a very long time, that the future border will pass at approximately the same location of the present security fence, and that no refugees will ever come to reside in sovereign Israel.

"The problem is not over making a joint declaration, but what its content would be. What she is saying is that -'There is a problem over making a joint statement, because we can't agree over the content"- At least she used the world "stalled" today and we kind of know who has adopted stalling as a tool to deny the Palestinians any hope for a state and so does Condoleezza Rice and President Bush, but will they do something about it..that is the question.