Official: Jewish groups overreacted to 'conversion of Jews' prayer

Jesus was "tried" in an illegal night-time meeting of the Sanhedrin, remanded to the Roman-appointed Palestinian Governor Pilate, and executed by a Roman Army death squad probably made up of Goths, Gauls, and Britons - German, French, and British slaves serving in Roman uniform. We all killed Him. Pilate washed his hands. That's a very 21st century response. Avoid the real point: what will you do with Jesus? Most Jews can never recognize Maschiah, because they are looking for a King to step out of the clouds in glory; but He has to be "of the line of David" and the only way to do that is to be born. But Jews are offended by the idea of God taking on human flesh - so they condemned Him, and so did we. Yeshua will come back as the King stepping out of the clouds in glory, but only for those who have accepted Him - as the baby in Bethlehem, and as the victim on Golgotha. That's about as pro-semitic as you can get: He came as a Jew to the Jews first, the Word of God in human flesh

I sent a response to this article which should have been printed as #83, but it has not appeared. Is that an oversight? - or are some readers' viewpoints unwelcome? Editorially, censorship is a form of brainwashing - unless your readers understand that it is happening and they choose to agree. Then it becomes brain laundering, which may or may not be more beneficial, but at least has the advantage of having been chosen by its subjects. Please print my original response; thank you.

That is only because the Jewish people of Germany would join his movement against the Pope. He actually thought very favorably of the Jews before they rejected him, which was wise of the Jews at the time because he was also looking to convert them as well.

Kol hakavod! You are right! I still like our religion the best. I enjoy Friday night songs before the kiddush, Saturday spending the whole day at the synagogue! Eating kosher etc... Plus, the most important thing....I love Israel and indeed we are moving back in....at most ...1 year. Our son is already at a yeshivah in Jerusalem, my favorite city anyway! Shavuah Tov! Ve oulay...lehitraot!!! Lolita Ora Cohen-Zamir

«though the Jews did not physically execute Jesus, they were responsible for the execution because they chose Barrabas» In other words, the blood libel is still with us. «pay attention to your own religion and don`t try to change anyone else`s. It`s none of your business what we say in our churches.» What you say in your churches is very much our business when your liturgy becomes an incitement to murdering us. The Protocols of Zion sprang directly from church-inspired anti-semitish, and are now part of the standard repetoire of Hamas et al. You can't utter these words and then claim some kind of religious immunity to their consequences.

The only reason it is believed the Jews killed Jesus is because when they were asked to spare someone from death and were given the choice of Jesus and Barrabas they chose Barrabas. Had they chosen Jesus, He would have been spared and the Romans would have executed Barrabas in their usual inimitable style. Therefore, though the Jews did not physically execute Jesus, they were responsible for the execution because they chose Barrabas. It doesn't matter though, because it was foretold and was supposed to happen. As for the Latin mass, pay attention to your own religion and don't try to change anyone else's. It's none of your business what we say in our churches. You don't recognize Christianity as religion anyway so what do you care?

You are certainly entitled to your viewpoint. However, you should agree that a religion is entitled to work on what logically follows from its premises. I find it hard to understand how being prayed for ever harmed anyone.

The words of the revived prayer are benign only if they are read in complete isolation from the historical context of Catholic relations with the Jews, which are brotherly only in the way that Cain was brotherly toward Abel. This Pope does nothing by accident; he knows his history exceptionally well. So there is nothing benign about this nod to earlier centuries of Catholic efforts to save Jewish souls, and there is nothing paranoid or excessive in the Jewish response to this development.

I agree with alot of what you say, except for the part where you say that one cannot help what one believes. If that were true, there would never be anyone who converts to another religion, and no new religions would ever come into being. In fact, people have more choice in their religious beliefs than in something like sexual orientation, which truly is not a choice.

Nine-Eleven after the coming of the Messiah? Darfur massacres after the coming of the Messiah? Yes, the list is long, although not complete and seemingly to be continued ... But for the victims it was much worse than reading a long text. If the consequence of religion is not the improvement of the behaviour of men and women, then what's the good of that?

Murdering of Indian populations in America (how many remain today in the Caribbean, where Columbus dicovered them?) after the coming of the Messiah? Replacement of the murdered Indians by African slaves after the coming of the Messiah? Religious wars between Catholics and Protestants after the coming of the Messiah? Pogroms by Bogdan Khmelnitsky, later on during the end of the XIXth Century in Russia, later on in the beginning of the XXth Century and later on by Simon Petliura, after the coming of the Messiah? Genocide against the Armenians after the coming of the Messiah? Einsatzkommandos and gas chambers at Auschwitz, Treblinka and other camps after the coming of the Messiah? Gulag and Stalin's crimes after the coming of the Messiah? Pol Pot's crimes after the coming of the Messiah? 1988's massacre of Kurds under Saddam Hussein at Halabja, Iraq, after the coming of the Messiah? 1994's genocide against the Tutsis in deeply Catholic Rwanda after the coming of the Messiah?

I repeat: Old testament says clearly that after the coming of the Messiah, swords will be transformed into ploughs. Nobody is obliged to believe or adhere to the Old Testament, but official credo of the Church includes both Old and New Testaments. Then, Roman atrocities against the Jews, including martyrdom of Rabbi Akiva, after the coming of the Messiah? Roman atrocities against the Christians after the coming of the Messiah? Continuous Christian atrocities against the Jews during centuries after the coming of the Messiah? Religious condemnation of Jean Hus and Jeanne d'Arc to death after the coming of the Messiah? Forced conversions of Jews by Christians after the coming of the Messiah? Inquisition for the conversos and among "genuine" Christians after the coming of the Messiah? Destruction of Indian civilizations in America after the coming of the Messiah?

I don't know who was the real Jesus or Yeshua, who was born, accordingly to the New Testament, in circumstances that appear to me as incredible, but everybody has the right to believe what he wants. Moreover, if somebody really believes something, he doesn't decide to believe it and he isn't able to decide not to believe it.Even if there were forced conversions in history, especially by the Church against Judaism, faith doesn't belong to any possible decision of a man, only pretending to believe can be a decision. The real Jesus was maybe a very good man and a Christian has obviously the right to believe and to give him the name of Messiah or God or what he prefers (I repeat, if he believes, he is even unable to decide). But to say to the Jews that he is THEIR Messiah? To say to them that they have to recognize him as the Messiah? Old Testament says clearly that after the coming of the Messiah, swords will be transformed into ploughs.

Or how about the collective murders, persecutions and expulsions that have been a normal condition of Jewry in Christendom for centuries? Neither am I without gratitude for those among our neighbors whose consciences led to the rescue of their neighbors. They risked all and are truly heroes.

responses, your prejudices may have gotten in the way of your understanding. I fully agree that the Enlightenment unleashed a rash of prejudices; this was also the period in which nation-states emerged allowing all to vent their spleens. But had you not dismissed me personally, and actually read my words you might have seen that more is involved with antisemitism than with clear-cut xenophobia. Anti-Judaism is, so to speak, in the blood of Christian society, religious or secular (some might wish to describe Hitler, for instance, as an example of the secular strain, but even he was brought up a Catholic in a Catholic country; hard to escape our roots, zmogus). No, Judaism and Jews hold a special place in Christian heart and thought, and efforts to eradicate them from the world began a thousand years before the so-called Enlightenment. Remember the Crusades, or the Inquisition?

Now that you finished your litany have a deep breath and ask yourself how this ontological Judeophobia starting from the dawn of 18th c. was Christian more than it was an ideological product of the new secular, racist array of philosophies. As soon as you'll discover how anti-Judeo-Christian they were, your allegations will disappear into thin air leaving you with sporadic and non-ontologic examples of Russian peasants engaged in the pogroms and some extraclerical Catholic priests catering for the local recrutees of Nazi police. Needless to say, that for you the Catholic input in saving Holocaust era Jews will not result in attributing ontological merit of Catholic Church. At most your discourse is charging the modern Catholic clergy of being untrue to ontological Judeophobia and for assuming revered attitude towards Jews. Needless to say, the abandoned Judaic stoning whores and the surviving misogynic and anti-Gentile prayers will not result in you calling for rewriting Torah.

for Colin: The problem as you present it makes perfect sense theologically. Unfortunately it does not address the impact of what may well be false doctrine as it applies to everyday life. Pauls Veil has been the starting point for viewing the Jews as blind, stiff-necked and themselves arrogant. This view was then magnified many times over to view the Jew as different in kind (Christians were the people of God; Jews the people of the Devil), which eventually, and under secularism based on Christianity, condemned the Jews to death at the hands of their European neighbors. This is no small matter to be dismissed as irrelevant.

Either (a) Christian doctrine is correct: there is a God, Christ was his only begotten son, etc. In this case, obviously it would be good if 'the veil fell from Jewish eyes,' they realized the truth, escaped damnation, etc. Or (b) Christian doctrine is incorrect. In this case, the prayer isn't going to have much effect. It's directed to a God who -- as defined in Christian doctrine -- isn't there. Again, no problem. Assuming people are actually talking about what bothers them, I don't see what they are getting upset about. If anything, the inclusion of this prayer in the Catholic liturgy provides a kind of insurance policy. After all, if the theory behind it is correct, one would indeed want the prayer to be realized. It's like one of those ridiculous 2500.00 life insurance policies that come free with bank accounts, etc. Not of much use -- but who could actually object?

There is an authorised Latin rendition of the current, post-Vatican II, non-triumphalist mass. I do not understand why those wishing a resumption of Latin's availability as an option are not offered that (as is readily had in the UK), rather than the old Tridentine. Might somebody explain?

From historian Saul Friedlander (Pie XII et le Troisième Reich, in French), citing Guenter Lewy (The Catholic Church and Nazi Germany, McGraw-Hill, New York 1964, page 238), here is what Mgr Rarkowski, supreme chaplain of the Wehrmacht, addressed to the German soldiers entering Poland, on September 1st, 1939: "During this solemn time when our German people is put to the test of fire in a fight for saving its right to live that God gave him ... I am speaking to you soldiers who, on the front, are bearing the great and honourable responsibility to keep and defend by the sword the life of the German nation ... Each of you knows what is at stake for our people in these difficult days; and, whatever you are asked, each of you has in front of his eyes the shining example of a genuine warrior, our Führer and supreme commander, the first and the bravest soldier of the Great German Reich, who in this very time stays with you in the battle."

This revision of the Easter mass is not a mere cosmetic change to the service but an expression of the unremitting arrogance of the Church. For these American Jewish Leaders to rationalize that ?very few worshipers recited the said section on the conversion of the Jews,? is nothing short of a complete lack of understanding of history, and insensitivity to the dangers these few added words hold for Judaism and our People. The Jewish Problem is not a modern invention of secular Europe, but a Christian Problem of two thousand years. Christianity has always considered itself to have not only superseded Judaism and the "Old Testament," but also to have replaced the Jewish People as the New Israel. That we are still here represents an affront and challenge to Christianity and its underpinnings. How is it that God, in the wake of the debacle of the Roman destruction of Jerusalem in 70 CE, having sent a messiah, his own flesh, the Christ;

without prejudice, I would like to have clarification on this: who is the God of Jewish people? how a Jew relates to a non-Jew does Jew = someones who practices Judaism? what's means "chosen" people? what's the Torah? what's the Talmud? what's zionism? does judaism = or not zionim? does the Jewish people have a mission? what it is? does Israel represents all the Jews?

For the Church to pray that Paul's Veil be removed from our hearts and eyes reflects the continuance and perpetuation of self-justification for the crimes of Christendom towards the Jews for nearly two thousand years. Jewish Blindness is the problem; the Jews are the cause. It is the same schizophrenic reasoning that allowed the Polish Church to build and justify a convent on the bones of Europe?s murdered Jews of Auschwitz. Not an act of kindness and penitence but of arrogance. And as to the blindness of some prominent American Jewish leaders in justifying the actions of the pope, one is reminded that these self-same ?leaders? also surfaced to defend FDR/American indifference for years as Europe sought, once and for all, to rid themselves of their two thousand year long Jewish Problem. If our leaders would lead, let them first learn, to understand our history. Their mission is not to protect the perpetrators but the victims, their People.

how is it that this singular act of love and salvation intended only for His People could have gone unrecognized for the gift it was? And how could God not have known, anticipated and corrected for His error? The failure of Christian theology to explain this problem throws the entire Christian project into doubt in the eyes and hearts of its leaders and followers. And this doubt at the very heart of Christianity, I suggest, is the reason, provides the energy for Christian animus towards the Jews. Christianity has a lot to repent for, and the correction must begin in a rewrite of the Gospels.

"The Jewish groups in question certainly won`t go rioting and setting buildings afire like the Muslims would at the drop of a hat." correct but it could go from a unrelented harrassment and threat to an incitement for the US proxy to plot a war or how about a Mossad squad for a sudden disappearance of the "offender"???

If you take Judaism, Christianity and Islam literally we all pray to the same G-d.

Exactly right. And then we have those who learn the WRONG lessons from history....

"Direct specific divine commands are stubborn things." The commands are not stubborn. Its the people, the ones who are addicted to "the opiate of the masses" that are stubborn. "Those who wish to seek out the cause of miracles, and to understand the things of nature as philosophers, and not to stare at them in astonishment like fools, are soon considered heretical and impious, and proclaimed as such by those whom the mob adores as the interpreters of nature and the gods. For these men know that once ignorance is put aside that wonderment would be taken away which is the only means by which their authority is preserved."

Those Jews who are blowing their horns now about this Latin prayer should think of the Orthodox Jews thanking G-d for not being born as a woman, of all the sexist and homophobic texts in the Tenach and the Talmud, of the way non-Halachic Jews are treated (of course when they are famous, they are considered to be 'Jews'). In every religion there is a lot of dirt to be cleaned out...

Sounds like a nice sentiment, it is neither inciteful or hateful...reminds me of our prayer for the government that we say...certainly not as bad as the Jewish daily prayer "Alainu" which is said 3 times a day and includes the vers "that they pray to false and non-existent Gods" - now that may be offensive to Christians and those of other faiths..

Stating that Luther is an anti-Semite doesn?t do justice to him. Reality is more complex than that. In 1523, Luther wrote in his 'That Jesus is a born Jew' that Jesus comes from G-d's people. He ruled out violence against Jews and saw their social isolation as an obstacle to their conversion. He hoped that, after a successful Reformation, the Jews would become Christians. As he was disappointed in this, he slowly turned into an enemy of Judaism, writing horrible articles like 'About the Jews and their lies' (1543). But Luther didn?t write these anti-Judaist pamphlets to the populace, but to the Protestant rulers, stating he was not against the Jews as such, but against their false doctrines. Even in his last sermon, Luther preached to convert the Jews, not to kill them. And let?s not forget Anti-Judaism was quite acceptable in Medieval Europe and Luther lived centuries before the Shoah. His writings against Judaism can be compared to Orthodox Jews campaigning against Messianic Jews.

It's not for us to dictate liturgy to Catholics. As long as they are not using this as an excuse to harm Jews, why should we care? I agree with Dan #9.

The current Pope is an intense reactionary. He is a product of the far right of the Catholic church. What does anyone expect from him? Why are they upset when he supports traditional Catholic values?

Let them pray , even it has no utility , it harms no one , and they are happy . But do'nt pray to much for their redemption , who knows what could happen if your prayers are answered .

The problem with common knowledge is that it often has little relationship to reality. If one accepts the Christian scriptures as the word of God, as many Christians do, one cannot change "all nations" to all nations but one. Direct specific divine commands are stubborn things.

"First the Muslims now us--Watch out Protestants and Orthodox Christians - You are next on Ratzinger`s "everything old is new again" list." To those who cheered Ratzinger when he insulted the Muslims, I remind you all of the words of Pastor Martin Niemöller (1892?1984) about the inactivity of German intellectuals following the Nazi rise to power and the purging of their chosen targets, group after group: When the Nazis came for the communists, I remained silent; I was not a communist. When they locked up the social democrats, I remained silent; I was not a social democrat. When they came for the trade unionists, I did not speak out; I was not a trade unionist. When they came for me, there was no one left to speak out.

Martin Luther - the great Protestant was also the greatest Antisemite of medieval times. ?[First] set fire to their synagogues or schools and to bury and cover with dirt whatever will not burn, so that no man will ever again see a stone or cinder of them [?]. [Second, I advise that] their houses also be razed and destroyed. For they pursue in them the same aims as in their synagogues. Instead they might be lodged under a roof or in a barn, like the gypsies. This will bring home to them that they are not masters in our country, as they boast. [?] [Fifth, I advise] that safe-conduct on the highways be abolished completely for the Jews. For they have no business in the countryside [,,,]. Let them stay at home. Quoted from the Internet Medieval Source Book: Martin Luther (1483-1546): The Jews and Their Lies, excerpts (1543), Paul Halsall, Fordham University, URL http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/source/luther-jews.htm

This mass and its message have been the cause of hatred of the Jews over the centuries. Remember the Inquisition: remember the Jews chased ignominiously from land to land. Remember the forced conversions. The present Pope has not forgotten the lessons learned in his Nazi past. Jews don't forget that we were chosen to suffer and it seems that the Pope understands this and wishes to enforce it.

Whereverthe romans ruled they ruled with an iron fist they made the rules not the people who had been conquered. In no other country did they allow anyone but roman rulers to deal out law and order this was also true of Israel. Whoever suggested that the jews killed jesus obviously does not have any ink.ling of Roman history.Crucifiction was a roman punishment carried out by romans who would not have been scared to upset any locals.Also roman records were generally pretty good and there are to the best of my knowledge no credible roman records stating that jews had the authority to overule roman law or even make their own decisions.The lie of the jews killing jesus may have been made up to justify the new religion of christianity.Look at the pope he even wears a skullcap and a form of tallis . Most people are not aware that the main difference between Judaism and christianity is christians believe jesus was the messiah jews believe he is still to come.

In the New Testament you will read (it was even translated into German by that great Protestant Martin Luther) that the Romans crucified Jesus. Even Catholics should stick to the Bible sometimes...

It is common knowledge that Jews are exempt. I read it somewhere (Al Jazeera?) that we are the chosen people so it does not apply, even to the non-practising orthodox Jews such as myself. That being said I look forward to my new born, yet to be baptized, Catholic grand-daughter saying to me one day; "Zaidie! I want that and that and that for Christmas."

"and maybe Jews need to be remided about their horrific crimes in Palestine." As a Jew I can only say that I am as responsible for the crimes of my ancestors, as they are for mine. Please be advised that your brain has been recalled, due to a defect.

..and maybe Jews need to be remided about their horrific crimes in Palestine..ancient as illustrated in their mythology (where they document mass murders in historic Palestine...old testament) and how they created modern day Isael on the tears of Palestinians. ....or Jews should also be reminded of all the other Jews that sold their own people just to have a few of the friends free to go to Palestine...many zionist did this....Jews, when given the chance, as they have been, treat people the same way they were treated.

and Jews crucified Jesus. A simple, black-and-white world. All what simple, black-and-white minds need. And the very reason why over centuries black killed white, or vice versa. Still alive and kicking.

Yes, that is what the french media is analysing also. They also report how concerned the mainstream french catholic church is, about it. Is this pope going to destroy all the efforts made by Paul 6 and particularly John Paul 2? Has he totally come to terms with his nazi youth?

catholics are pagans and are not true followers of Yeshua HaMashiach the JEWISH Messiah. catholics are pagans just like those who brought paganism into the Holy Temple of Ancient Israel (Ezekiel chapter 8) --- the pagans in the Holy Temple claimed to be following G-d but G-d condemned when they rejected the message brought to them by His prophets (including Ezekiel)

And "Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it?

Everyone knows that the only true religion is Islam, the religion of peace (occasionally). I read that on Al Jazeera's site.

"I`ll never forget the film of the Lithuanian priest, blessing the einsatzgruppen thugs before they went out to mass-murder Jews in the Second World War." It's up to you to associate catholicism with that Lithuanian PRIEST. And I trust you will display your full understanding when somebody in turn associates Judaism with RABBI Meir Kahane.

According to Christian scripture, the church was given a direct command by Jesus: "Make disciples of all the nations; baptize them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit." However uncomfortable it may make others feel, one can hardly expect a religion to ignore a direct command of God. It is hard to see how they could interpret all nations not to include Jews.

Agreed. Let them pray - what harm does it do? So long as they keep their lunatic proselytizing out of our country, they can pray all they like. I'll even pray for them...that they should have an epiphany and realize that everyone has a right to their own spiritual beliefs, that they must return to Israel the relics they stole from our Temple and store in the Vatican basement, and thus I will pray for their redemption.

Most Jews have converted to liberalism, feminism and environmentalism - so who cares what the Vatican says or does?

The principal problem with the generally salutary Vatican II reforms is that some of the baby was thrown out with the bathwater. With the fresh air of its healthier attitude toward other faith traditions came, alas, a tendency to trivialize the liturgy, even though there is no necessary connection at all between a stately and dignified liturgy and a bigoted attitude toward those of other faiths. It is a very good thing that the Roman Church is acting to recover some of the liturgical dignity lost through Vatican II, but it is also to be hoped that this recovery will be *only* of the truly liturgical elements, not of the erroneous dogmatic ones. My bet is that the 'prayers for the Jews' (there are others not mentioned here) will be spotted and excised. What's needed, in effect, is a 'Vatican I.5.'

People who forget the past are doomed to repeat it.

The intention of the prayer was a positive toward the Jewish people. When you ask the regular Christian folk about this message of the Pope's, they feel that it is a message of love and goodwill. The Christians who believe in their Lord love Him so much that they want to share it with others not just the Jewish people. They believe it is a beautiful message. As a Jewish person I don't believe that Jesus was the Messiah, I believe Moshiach will come in the future. I will teach my children about my faith and values. While it is important to teach about the negative history and relationship the Jews and the Catholic Church has had over the years, It is also important to teach about the positive relationships that we have built up with The Church in the modern era. The fact is while we may disagree with some of the content of the message, it was a positive wish toward Jews and in this world where there Some wishing death upon us we need to better prioritize our criticism of others.

On the TV (arte) they said that Ratzinger wants to close the gap to some conservative French bishop who was excommunicated some years ago. Sounds as if Ratzinger wouldn't want to have conservative competitors.

Maybe if your people had been persecuted and murdered for 2000 years, you'd be annoying too. Oh, wait you are!

But they don't really see Jews as part of their family if they have to accept their version of the truth in order for us to be saved. Being and living ones life as a good and just person should be all that is required to be "saved". No-one is perfect. We all have our faults. People who accept their religon's teachings without actually liveing by it's tenets are no more worthy of Heaven than a nonbeliever who actually lives their life with compassion and kindness toward others.

they are shrinking in numbers worldwide. perhaps they should pray for their own future and leave the Jews alone already...

Thy both stink. And giving a worse alternative doesn't make the lesser of the two evils acceptable.

Why don't you cool it, folks. Their prayers are their business, not ours. At least THEY don't ask us to remove the kidashta mikol-ha'amim from the Kiddush, even though it'pure hubris ! David

People who live in the past have no future.

the Catholic system. If I were a Muslim could I then complian about removing any reference to a promised land in the torah? Let Catholics believe what they will and you believe what you will....the Jews have always been a pain the arse, they are inherently ANNOYING, most people agree about this, that is fact. And they continue to be, then they want everyone to come to their rescue...WW2, the international bankers (according tho Henry Ford) were trying to drag America into the war long before the Japanese attacked us. Let every Jew in a Catholic land leave and go to Israel, I mean that's why we created this humane final solution to the world's jew problem...an international ghetto...i mean promise land.

No 'negative' news about them in media is allowed. No criticism on their actions. Now no prayers regarding them. They are 'scared cows', untouchables. And may by this message would also be termed 'anti-semitic'.

Perhaps Catholics need to be reminded of their past, how, with prayers like these, they incinerated Jews. I'll never forget the film of the Lithuanian priest, blessing the einsatzgruppen thugs before they went out to mass-murder Jews in the Second World War. And neither should Catholics.

is how we live! And one of the most beautiful experiences that one can make in practical life (made it!) is to see that all religions will eventually lead to the same beautiful results if you only, in the right heart and spirit, LIVE UP TO THEM! So there is actually no need at all to pray for people to change religion. If anything has to change IT'S THEIR HEART. And that's "AMAZING GRACE!"

They are not praying for my heath or my families health. They are not praying for my welfare. Take the blinders off a deal has been made with the Muslims.

This service is a prayer service, not a Mass. Regulations state that the old service will NOT be used as part of the allowance of the old Latin version of the Mass. Repeat: NOT be used. The allowance of the old Latin version must NOT replace the present version as the main Mass in each parish. These are the written regulations. A little more trust is in order, I think.

On days like this I thank G'd that I am not a Roman Catholic. Whatever the Vatican may say, it still wants to convert everyone to Catholicism. It does not respect fellow-believers in the G'd of Israel, may they be Jewish, Orthodox or Protestant. The Vatican states that Protestant national churches are 'sects'. So much for the ecumenical idea. But the theological concept that 'the Church' replaced 'Israel' and took over the Covenant is on the rise again, even outside the Roman Catholic Church. These are worrying times...

Pope Benedikt, when meeting with the Jewish community in Cologne, said expressly that Jews are so close to G-d that the catholic church would not even think of converting them. So, what is all this excitement about when the present Pope makes such a statement - which is a committment - to Jews?

You would prefer pogroms and harassment of Jews? I am actually impressed that they think so much about Jews and consider them a part of their family after 2000 years. There is no mention of saving muslims - whom also believe in Moses and Jesus.

Croats had full service in Latin. I like Latin but not in such way. As the whole Globe became more divided and as some begun enjoy in pain of other. I want ask Hamas to see that Shalit go home. Just go home withoute any condition. Rest is on your honore.

Consider how the prayer reads if its message is reversed: ""Let us pray also for the Jews that the Lord our God may leave the veil over their hearts and that they also may not acknowledge our Lord Jesus Christ. Let us pray: Almighty and everlasting God, refuse your mercy to the Jews; hear the prayers which we offer to preserve the blindness of that people so that they may not acknowledge the light of your truth, which is Christ, and be not delivered from their darkness." Which version do you find preferable?

In our Passover prayers we implore the L-rd to 'Pour out Your wrath upon the nations that do not acknowledge You, and upon the kingdoms that do not call upon Your Name. ... Pursue them with anger, and destroy them from beneath the heavens of the L-rd.' I fear our prayer is worse - we seemingly want unbelievers destroyed, whereas they only want us to be 'saved'.

We really dont have the right to tell Christians what to believe. If they believe that they have the truth and we dont, this is their right as human beings. As long as they dont call us evil and wicked and cursed by God then we really have nothing to complain about. We view their religion as backwards and a corruption of Judaism..therefore they have the right to view us as blind.

it's just a cristian prair' in latin... it doesn't mean anything

This is how I understand it: The Pope in 1969 spoke with a holocaust survivor and Vatican II changed to accept that Jews have a covenant with God - modern tolerance born? New prayer says final redemption of Jews, even if their covenant is accepted, will only be through converting to Catholicism. Why can't they keep out this last sentence about the final redemption? Modern tolerance would accept the existence of all religions without converting them. Islam is trying to convert others, following the Christian or 7th century idea. Why not preach to Islam that conversion is not the goal or that one religion is not better than another. Men seek religion to cope with the difficulties in life. Why is one religion better than another to reach that goal? Modern religion does not think so; says we are all alike. Pope trying to get back the old hardliners might lose the younger generation, who will go and have gone to the more liberal churches because they are more tolerant.

The Jewish groups in question certainly won't go rioting and setting buildings afire like the Muslims would at the drop of a hat.

Someone is praying for you? For me that's a free roll. How can it hurt? They a have a healty heart (in my father words), let them pray for us.

Hold on there Ploni boy.... wait for Peter the Roman.

Frankly disgusting considering the outnumbering amount of converted Jews or Christians (which the Nazis still considered as Jews) who perished in the concentration camps because were denounced by their cathos neighbors! And not to tell about the sufferings and persecutions of the Marranos (Sephardic converted Jews). Go and try to convince the Portuguese or Spaniards to establish a remembrance day to these events . The pope behaves with an arrogance as the psalms says "Vanitas vanitatum, et omnia vanitas"

Why bring back something that appeals to more hard line Catholics!!?? Do you want to create lower Church attendance then already exists. International church attendance is WAY down from what it was 40 years ago, if anything he should try and modernize, to a greater extent, the religion and its practices.

First the Muslims now us--Watch out Protestants and Orthodox Christians - You are next on Ratzinger's "everything old is new again" list.