Netanyahu on Mitchell-Abbas meet: Stop wasting time

The Israeli land title scroll and proof of ownership will be revealed soon enough. Israel is not for sale or division among cousins. Peace and security will come through the recognition that Isaac and Ishmael who had different mothers were still brothers from the same father. the spirit of these two brothers would have defended their title of both covenants as one Israel not two. And would have done so without the bloodshed and reestablished the security itself for the world to participate in what they both know as truth. Stop wasting time my brothers.

Cipora, you have been uncharacteristically silent since #60 John the American provided the proof that you so smugly demanded. That is the common tactic of immature people who know full well that they have been proven wrong. They hide from the truth and hope everyone will forget how wrong they are.

Ted, I agree with you 100%. Israel has not and will not freeze settlements unless it gets a leader who is willing to negotiat seriously.

I agree. Atate without defined border is an expantionate state.

DZ: "UNGA resolutions are not binding," Irrelevent. Read the first line of Res 181: "The General Assembly, Having met in special session at the request of the mandatory Power"... That is important because the authority to make the Partition Plan legally binding lay with the MANDATORY, not with anyone else. But there was always one limit placed on the MANDATORY's ability to alter the terms of Mandate i.e. the consent of its supervising body, which by 1947 was... the UNGA. Get it? The borders defined in the Partition Plan were legally binding because the Mandatory brought the issue before the UNGA, asking that body "Do you consent to this plan?" And the UNGA (33-13) replied "Yeah, sure". That made the borders legally binding, precisley because the plan had been commissioned BY THE MANDATORY and consented to BY ITS SUPERVISORY BODY i.e. you have ignored the first part of a TWO-PART process, and that's why your statement is irrelevent.

br: "8 poor analogy: the cake is not eaten" Untrue, because the idea behind "facts on the ground" is exactly that i.e. ground that is swallowed up by Israeli colonies will never be willingly coughed up again by Israel. The idea that it runs the risk of being unwillingly dispossessed of them doesn't ever seem to occur to any zionist.....

PW: "Roo is it better to start negotiating after the cake is gone?" Better to point out to the guzzler that if he keeps on going then he will end up being attached to a stomach pump. Messy indeed, and no-one's idea of fun. But certainly much more unpleasant for the dude having his guts pumped out.....

CJK: "prove that israel made a legally binding declaration regarding her borders at any time. make sure that you give full source quote." So you are claiming that when Israel declared independence it was actually defining itself as a state whose territory could forever keep expanding until (unless?) it finally makes the decision to stop where it is, put down its shovel, and declare "There. I'm satisfied now." Correct? Two points about that: 1) This does work both ways, doesn't it i.e you have just provided a legal justification for the intervention by the Arab states in 1948. 2) Isn't this an admission that Israel **is** an empire-building expansionist power, circa 18th to 19th century? Israel: the state that declared itself with "borders tba".

do you know what it proposes? it's not just about occupied territories. it's about normalized relations and even trade. the arab nations know the mutual economic and security benefits that it would bring. as for hamas and hezbollah, they'd have little recourse but to go along, and they'd certainly not last for very long in their current form. as for an overnight change in relations and attitudes? i'm sure you know the answer to that as well as i do. but the more ties and and mutual cooperation that exists between the two, the quicker that peace and stability can be achieved. it's been proven already, at least a couple times, that when sources of antagonism have been alleviated, palestinians and israelis can easily coexist. the ONLY viable alternative, unless you want to consider outright genocide, is a single integrated state... which to ME would actually be the ideal. however, i doubt very much that israel has the political will to become completely secular and to bestow upon the palestinians the exact same rights and priveleges; without exception.

do you know what it proposes? it's not just about occupied territories. it's about normalized relations and even trade. the arab nations know the mutual economic and security benefits that it would bring. as for hamas and hezbollah, they'd have little recourse but to go along, and they'd certainly not last for very long in their current form. as for an overnight change in relations and attitudes? i'm sure you know the answer to that as well as i do. but the more ties and and mutual cooperation that exists between the two, the quicker that peace and stability can be achieved. it's been proven already, at least a couple times, that when sources of antagonism have been alleviated, palestinians and israelis can easily coexist. the ONLY viable alternative, unless you want to consider outright genocide, is a single integrated state... which to ME would actually be the ideal. however, i doubt very much that israel has the political will to become completely secular and to bestow upon the palestinians the exact same rights and priveleges; without exception.

If what I posted in 36 seems outrageous, think what others view of Netanyahu's proposals. All I did was use Netanyahu's proposals and take out the right of conquest. The 1948 war is not over, Israel is still occupying large areas no allocated to Israel by the UN resolution creating Israel. There is no such defensive right of conquest. If you think so, identify the international treaty.

Eric, do you sincerely believe that if, tomorrow, Israel were unilaterally to withdraw to the June 4, 1967 (or even the May 14, 1948) boundaries, the Arabs would allow it to remain in peace as a Jewish state? If so, please share your reasoning with us.

Letter From the Agent of the Provisional Government of Israel to the President of the United States, May 15, 1948 MY DEAR MR. PRESIDENT: I have the honor to notify you that the state of Israel has been proclaimed as an independent republic within frontiers approved by the General Assembly of the United Nations in its Resolution of November 29, 1947, and that a provisional government has been charged to assume the rights and duties of government for preserving law and order within the boundaries of Israel, for defending the state against external aggression, and for discharging the obligations of Israel to the other nations of the world in accordance with international law. The Act of Independence will become effective at one minute after six o?clock on the evening of 14 May 1948, Washington time. With full knowledge of the deep bond of sympathy which has existed and has been strengthened over the past thirty years between the Government of the United States and the Jewish people

But don't you think that the territory controlled by Israel at the time it declared itself an independent state, inherently defined its borders? Or are you suggesting that the borders were left undefined to allow for future, albeit not yet conceived, expansionism?

Way back, in the 16th century after the jews were expelled from Spain, The turkish ottoman empire was open for them as the almost only safe refuge. one of the solutions for the jewish problem was experimented, under Don Yosef Nassi, trying to settle jews in palestine. It did not work for two reasons, mostly because the arab population did not accept it willingly and than the jewish community was not suffitintly motivated. later on, in 1939 the british solution of partition was not accepted by either side. the 1947 UN partition resolution was totaly rejected by the arabs and had for result four wars and thousands of deads. So, perhaps the only solution left nowadays is the creation of a unified jewish-arab secular republic under the historic title of "The Hollyland".

prove that israel made a legally binding declaration regarding her borders at any time. make sure that you give full source quote.

We declared OUR borders in 1948.

... wasting time... the longer the settlement occupation, the deeper the dilemma... not only for the Pals, but also for Israel...

the so-called 48 lines were armistice lines between israel and jordan. these armistice lines were never borders. nor were the palestinians party to any agreement with israel regarding borders.

israel had never declared any of her borders as you claim.

As far as I am concerned there is no possible peace before 30, 40, 50 years if ever. This is basically not a rational conflict, this is a religious & cultural conflict and the palestinians are the pawns of the muslim world whatever the merits of their case might be. It will be decided by the Israel's staying power by some sort of "lumières" in the islamic world and by the availability of cheap and unlimited fusion energy.

Palestinians choose to remain stateless believing it is Israel they are hurting, Israel a thriving, vibrant country.

is not a precondition, just a statement of a position during the proposed negotiations. Demanding something just in order to sit down and talk is a precondition. Whoever does not grasp these has a comprehension problem. Abbas posts preconditions, Bibi states negotiating positions.

The Arabs did not take it in 1948...so they attacked. They did not take it in 1967 when Israel was ready to hand over all the lands for peace. They kept on not taking it till the present. Israel must continue with its nation building independent of Arab/Palestinian obfuscations. Sixty years later, they could have already had a country thriving amist Israel. Sixty years from now, they may only have Gaza left for a country. Time and development and expansion is natural in the absence of an agreement. The Palestinians now may never have a state of their own, sadly. They certainly deserve it and are entitled to it. What a pity.

because it doesn't really want peace if it means relinquishing its aims of expansion. the ONLY way for peace, and a palestinian state, can be achieved is if enough pressure is applied on israel from the u.s. and/or the world community. obama has met the political wall, built by aipac, in washington...and the most that he can do now is to stand aside, withold the american veto, and allow others to make something happen.

The only gesture Israelis have consistently given the Palestinians is the middle finger. As with the continued building of illegal settlements and outposts, the expulsion of Arab families from their homes in East Jerusalem, demolition of Palestinian homes while denying them building permits, appropriation of Palestinian land upon which to build that obscene wall, etc., etc., etc.

opponents within the Palestinian political community, particularly in Gaza where Hamas (who remain defiant of the Quartet's three conditions) has gained a stronghold in Gaza - a future region of the Palestinian state we hope, what have you got to lose from talking to PM Netanyahu at this time? President Shimon Peres has reiterated the same message to you and he's most knowledgeable to date on how things should transpire. Setting preconditions doesn't bring the peace process and resolution to the territorial conflict closer.

Jasper, what's the matter with you? Don't you ever leave your home? When you get back to it,if people have taken it over, are they entitled to stay just because you left it voluntarily? I have a place in Florida that I do not visit for years at a time but it's still mine. Property rights are sacrosanct. If the government want my property they can take it legally under the Doctrine of Eminent Domain but I must be Justly Compensated for it. That is in the 5th Amendment to our Constitution. It's the same with the Arabs. If you take what's theirs, you pay for it. You cannot have it both ways, taking something and not paying for it. That's called "theft" and it tends to tick people off.

"Leaving is not the same as abandoning and disclaiming rights to property, which in the western world is a sacrosanct right. We all leave our homes. When we get back they`re still ours." Why did they leave their homes? Because they were greedy and believed the Arab Armies' promise that the Jews would all be killed and they could come back and have a share of the booty. Didn't work out. So exactly why should they be allowed to come back, Mike? When you go into a casino and make a bet, and you lose the roll of the dice, do you get your money back?

If you read the UNGA resolution 181 that recommended the borders that you are alluding to you should also know that in the same text the UNGA 181 called upon the UNSC to ?take necessary measures? to implement the suggested guidelines. Please site any UNSC resolution that made those recommendations mandatory. If you cannot - have the courage to admit that you are wrong about the defined borders.

All the Islamist-Jihadists-so-called Palestinians have are bloody excuses. They are not really interested in Peace. Israel and America should stop wasting time begging them to make peace. Until they know peace and are ready for peace, it is useless pushing them to talk about peace.

to stay and Israel will grow beyond her present borders. These Palestinians will go the way of the Old West and the former American Indians. They will NOT have a fake country inside the borders of Israel and they can only throw rock and shoot rockets in the desert to protest. If they can't rule themselves ( and they can't) , then they can not stop Israel. What they need are ' reservations'.

Abbas' term as Palestinian President expired in January 2009. He extended by 1 year under Basic Law provisions, however Hamas never agreed to this. In any case even his "extended" presidential term is over. There is talk of an election mid year... maybe? Hamas have stated that they will boycott any attempt at staging elections in Gaza. Abbas is not sure whether he'll run anyway. Reconciliation between Fatah and Hamas is further away than ever. The Palestinians are a rudderless ship with two crews and no captain. Abbas doesn't even have the authority to place an order for toilet paper at PA headquarters let alone negotiate with Israel on behalf of the Palestinians.

Abbas knows Israel is shooting itself in the foot by continuing to steal more and more Palestinian land. The result will be a single state with a Jewish minority. The world will rise up against Israeli apartheid, the zionists will all scuttle back to wherever they came from, and finally there can be peace. There can be no going back now. No Palestinian state and no Jewish state.

I knew when Obama was vetted by AIPAC and he named Hillary to join his administration the chance at a fair peace was doomed it will only be a peace on Israels terms. But he caved so easily and now Bibi is drunk on power! Pity the nation of Palestine. Just what will the new "Lieberman" Israel do now?.......ANYTHING IT LIKES?........PEACE NEVER?

... the items you mentioned are not preconditions, they are common sense red lines. A precondition is something like determining the color of the Palestinian Police uniforms. Like deciding the exact route of a road. Like whether the Pal Capital is Ramallah or Gaza City. You don't see Bibi trying to determine these before sitting down with Abbas.

What a negotiating technique. First he sets out 10 preconditions of his own and then ORDERS Abbas to the table. Abbas should show up with his own plqan specifically ignoring all of Bibi's preconditions and with his own set, including a withdrawal to the original 48 lines and placement of a US observer force between the IDF and Palestine with Palestinian troops on all of Israel's borders and ports to keep out weapons smuggling. Start the negotiations from there with Israeli recognition of Palestine as the Non-Jewish State.

r u kidding me?!!!!!!! wow

built is a pre-condition. Israel has established a lot more pre-conditions than the Palestinians ever thought of.

whose every word is a provocation. There's nothing that says he must want peace, and it's up to international law (that means the entire world minus Israel)to settle this conflict as it sees fit. It's time for the USA to get out - way out. We have more important things to do than trying to save a tiny, suicidal country from itself. Let's see how long Israel's treaties with its Arab neighbors last once we pull out. I predict a small number of months. Turkey is already gone.

The demand that the Israelis be permitted to continue with their theft of Palestinian land and their "right" to build on the land they plan to steal from the Palestinians is the prime precondition preventing peace talks from going ahead.

The parties to the conflict will never make peace between one another. They`ve been trying that for 60 years and NOTHING has come if it. A settlement must be IMPOSED upon the parties by the entity that created the problem, namely the United Nations, which created Israel in 1948. It is indisputable that, in the creation of Israel, Arabs were displaced. It is unjust and unfair to take people`s property for no compensation. The UN must establish a Middle East Compensation Commission to adjudicate claims from everybody, INCLUDING JEWS, who lost property as a result of the UN`s creation of Israel. Just compensation needs to be paid by the UN for a Release of Claims. If you lost your property and had to live in squalor in a camp you too would harbor resentment. It`s nonsense that Arabs left voluntarily. Leaving is not the same as abandoning and disclaiming rights to property, which in the western world is a sacrosanct right. We all leave our homes. When we get back they`re still ours.

The US boycotted a Palestinian government where the prime minister was Hamas saying Hamas was not honoring past agreements, though Hamas was starting to compromise and talked of a referendum. When Israel doesn't offer past agreements, America still says them a nice check and then starts blaming the victims of Israeli imperialism/colonialism. It's like siding with the rapist because the rapist is rich and has influence in town. That's what it is. America is the powerful man who has someone that is sort of like a corrupt friend that breaks the law, but the friend is above the law and corrupt and the US uses its power against the Palestinians who are being bullied. As an American, I find that shameful. If Hamas was boycotted, then why isn't Israel being boycotted? It's anti-Semitism against the Palestinians, obviously. All racism is wrong.

Israel under Netanyahu wouldn't honor Oslo. What's the point of Palestinians (Indians) negotiating with Israel (breaking treaty whites) if they keep on changing their words, not honoring their commitments? Netanyahu rejected the Oslo Agreement which Rabin and Peres signed. Now, Netanyahu won't continue from where Olmert stopped. Then how can Palestinians trust Israel's word when it comes to a final deal? It's Israel's legal obligation under the UN to halt settlements. It's a violation of the Geneva Convention to build settlements. Israel commits Nuremberg law violations. The US is a high contracting party of the Geneva Convention, but it sides with Israel because it only applies international against Arabs, not for them (see Iraq and Lebanon). The Road Map said Israel must halt building settlements. Ísrael signed the Road Map. Israel is a UN member. Shamir also agreed to halt settlements, but didn't. Israel says no Jerusalem and then lies about preconditions.

Obviously some have a very short memory or are naive regarding the history of the "peace process." Arabs have refused to accept Israel's existence since 1948. The Palestinians were given 80% of the mandate while leaving a sliver of land for a Jewish State. The so-called West Bank, Judea-Samaria, was to be open for settlement for anyone, Jew, Arab, etc. Jordan illegally annexed it in the 1948 war, confiscating Jewish lands and businesses while expelling the Jews from the land. When the war was over, no borders were established but armistice lines. Twice in the last two decades Palestinian leadership refused up to 97% of land offered, and elected to resort to intifada and continue a war of attrition while using the Palestinian people as political pawns in an on-going agenda to eradicate a Jewish state that serves as a thorn in the side of an Arab agenda. Mitchell's plan is just another in a succession of offers for the State of Israel to commit suicide. Netanyahu should be commended.

Our foxy clever PM tells Abbas to "stop wasting time". The gall of the man is enough to take ones breath away. If the Palestinians demand that our government honor its pledges and agreements, how can that be construed as a waste of time by any measure of honesty or integrity. Whereas,it will surprise no one that Israel wishes only to waste time, to avoid decisions, to avoid trading land for peace.

Defined in UN GA Resolution 181, November 1947. Declared by Israel on May 14th 1948. And acknowledged by the US that same night. Nothing's changed since then.

Two guys are given a pizza to share. One guy indignantly refuses to share as he believes he should have gotten the whole thing. He calls on his buddies to throw the other guy into the sea so he can rightfully enjoy the whole pizza. But the other guy beats off the attackers and starts eating the pizza while still offering to share it with the first guy. Having learned nothing from this incident and rather than joining the feast, the first guy makes no less than 3 attempts to kill the guy with the pizza with the help of his buddies. Each time the guy with the pizza beats the attackers off while consuming more and more of the pizza. Finally, having given up on the idea of taking the pizza forcefully away the looser bitterly complains that a great part of the original pizza has been eaten.

No Jerusalem, no right of return, no '67 borders, no Palestinian army, and an Israeli military "presence" in the West Bank. So much for no preconditions.

well he has you adoration forever for not honoring past agreements like the roadmap.....and we will see what you and he get for making sure that peace went no where

And this man dares to point the finger at the people who try to the best for their peoples? What kind of insolence is this?!!!

The cake is still there and still under the control of Israel both before and during negotiations. Israel's negotiating position is that jerusalem is not up for negotiations only other areas. The 1948 armistice lines are with egypt and jordan not "palestine" which never existed. The palestinians have no more legal basis to Israel's west bank than mexicans in Texas have to Texas.

for being just and fair. You have always stood up for the victims of terrorist attacks, and have always tried to prevent further terrorists attacks. How can anybody in their right mind stand up for those terrorist is beyond reason.

One man cannot decide the fate of the jews. It appears that Israel's PM's are always in corruption scandals. Their scandals compromise Israel's security as they are willing to give Israel away under pressure from foreign security services who blackmail them.

This is a fact. If the Pals. accepted the 1948 devision they will have twice the size of land.

My understanding is that the Palestinians have asked for a complete settlement freeze for 3 to 6 months. Can anyone explain to me why that is such and unreasonable condition?

Israel uses peace talks to gain time to build more on occupied land and do it's best to legitimize an occupation that cannot be legitimized. Peace when you freeze.

Everyone knows that this train ain't going nowhere. The whole charade of peace talks is pretty ridiculous with Hamas in the wings waiting to pounce on the West Bank eventually. Islamists do not change their spots really, they just reframe their agenda to their advantage for the EU and to appear more moderate. When terror ceases, when the Palestinians accept the FACT that the "seige" they whine about is one they created through voting a terror group into power as their New Masters, then perhaps there will be change. But Israeli concessions??? As the phrase goes, "Never Again."

Nutanyahu trying to dictate the agenda on his terms. Hahaha. You ain't that important in the wider scheme of things. Statesman you are not. Forget it. Israelis are no more important than the Palestinians. Bully boys never win in the end. Go for it Bibi, embarrass Israel on the world stage. Do you really think you are being taken seriously!! Given enough rope?

Remember?

The longer Abbas leaves it the worse things get.

Look where it got the Palestinians when they sat with the Israelis for nearly 2 decades at the negotiating table while they allowed the Israelis continued building more and more settlements. Nothing except facts-on-the-ground that Israel now uses as bargaining chips. Asking Israel to halt settlement activity (including in East Jerusalem) is exactly what is needed to force a good-faith negotiation that may actually achieve some results.

what are you doing in my country? waiting for yours to finalize borders?

The Palestinians want peace, just not with you Bibi, the beauty about Israeli politics is that your job, is very unstable.

It is lunacy to negotiate the apportioning of the cake whilst one side gets to eat it during the negotiations.

Israel can't keep getting blamed for "stalling the peace process" if it makes gestures and the PA won't or hasn't.

... Israel must define her borders. Our coutnry is 61 years old and we still do not have firm borders. It's a shame.

What is the point of an election in a democracy? It is to correct the in accordance with the majority. Abbas has had many chances, he rejected them all. Obama might not be so eager to re-enter Mid East politics after seeing how his well-meaning efforts were received by Abbas.

peace and a two-state-solution.

With each failed talk, Iran wins.

No other way given Netanyahu's position

If one side makes an offer, and the other side refuses the offer... the offer is null and void. It is lunacy to think that a new administration is obligated to start with an offer the old admin put forth that the other side rejected.