Poll: Majority of Israel's Jews back gag on rights groups

they are rigid,knee jerk and single mindedly obsessed with israel looking for faults they can easily find at home

Change name from "rights groups" to "hostile foreign agencies" and the picture changes drastically (and becomes much clearer... at least in understanding how many see the situation). Unfortunately these organizations' selective attention and politics have undermined their claims of representing human rights. Their sources of funding and external support and their use as tools against a democratically elected government makes the alternative name even more applicable. Personally, I think holding them accountable for false allegations and revealing statistics on their funding and their work should be enough. Transparency is the best policy. Look at how well it worked with the NIF =)

me: "Negative, negative, negative, negative, negative, negative.... every single day?" NSM: "what is negative for me could be positive for you and vice-versa." That simply doesn't work. If you are going to make all the terms I use relative while yours are absolute, it is impossible to have a discussion. You know that constant harping is negative, not constructive, and gets annoying in no time. me: "Would you have someone around who complains about you all the time? Would you still think they`re doing you a favor, or would you get rid of them after awhile?" NSM: "But to completely dismiss and think they should be `gone` (one way or another) i find to be non-constructive." You don't seem like the type to keep negative people around you because you find benefit in it. You are only engaging in this line of reasoning as an exercise. It's what you're "supposed" to say to appear elevated. In the real world (not some utopia), constant complainers ARE most often dismissed. We BOTH know that.

Really disturbing stuff. Let us hope the margin of error in this poll is wide enough to negate all of its findings! As a Jew and as someone currently living in Israel, this saddens me deeply.

Even if the people want more restrictions on freedom of expression. Democracy is rule of the majority, for better or for worse. Besides, what's more important, freedom of expression, or security?

I can feel sympathetic towards Israelis that feel that it is a real danger to the nation what is unfolding in the country. The good will and the compassion towards the state is withering away. To be such a little land and loosing your moral grounds is a risky business. It is human to believe that if you hide the evidence the crime never happened. But that is not an option any longer. I think that Chris once said this very figuratively: Even if a Yak in the north of Tibet is farting, it will take just 30 minutes before you can see his relived face on the Youtube. The best way is to stop killing Palestinian in their homes redraw to 1967 lines and behave in a good manner, then you don’t have to start killing reporters too.

slowly Israel comes more and more to resemble Germany in the thirties...

In any case, Israel is held to higher standards than other countries, as always. Very few countries in Europe would get such good results (especially at the time of war), not even talking about Arab states. The double standards are blinding.

Wow, you must be joking me. First of all, 500 is hardly a representative sample of all Israeli Jews (there are more than 5mln). They might just walked up to a yeshiva. And the way questions are worded affect answers a lot. Furthermore, even if the sample represents Israeli Jews, the results are very good. 57.6% think that 'organizations that expose immoral conduct by Israel' should be gagged. What about the rest, 43.4%? I bet that in US you would not get such a good result. 82% 'back penalties for people who leak illegally obtained information exposing immoral conduct'. Do you see the way the question must have been worded? 'illegally obtained information exposing immoral conduct'. Any rational person would say that they would hesitate to expose illegally obtained information endangering their country, keeping in mind that all their neighbours are potential danger who would use such information to harm them. I could analyse the rest of results too, but I think you get my point.

NO "Got democracy" is more like it.

to STOP ALL OCCPATIONS OF A L L ARAB LANDS, thus we will all living as FREE individuals. OCCUPATION and its Maladies of the Illegal sttlements, is certainly changing OUR JEWISH Values, if not controlled the World communities will soon hate us. WHO can blame them.?

I do agree with your assessment, I suppose these will be the peope who will shouts the most if they are not allowed Freedom of Expressions,

Europe knows it, and America will soon join the club ans the rest of the world not faraway behind.

"Negative, negative, negative, negative, negative, negative.... every single day?" Well some people are more optimistic and some are not. The thing is, people post negativity from all sides. so what is negative for me could be positive for you and vice-versa. "Would you have someone around who complains about you all the time? Would you still think they`re doing you a favor, or would you get rid of them after awhile?" I understand where you're coming from but i guess where i differ is that instead of thinking in terms of 'getting rid of them' i guess i would say to just ignore them or speak out against them. But to completely dismiss and think they should be 'gone' (one way or another) i find to be non-constructive. Because that in itself is a rejectionist stance no different from the other side of the spectrum. I find that one has to accept that all these views exist and we have to deal with that accordingly with an integral view as opposed to 'my way or the highway' approach

and I know Americans will call for Israeli aid to be scaled back and even withheld as all aid both military and financial aid is predicated on respect for human rights and transparency surrounding them....Dutch

There are laws to protect those libeled in Israel. So there is protection for the so-called "wronged". The far right wing, as in Nazi Germany, want total control of every aspect of our lives. There is sufficient protection of our national security from the Army censors.

How can Israelis expect others to recognize violations in their human rights while they dismiss Palestinians? This just doesn't add up and square... In addition, it will involve withholding their military aid and financial aid as all aid is tied to human rights and transparency. Dutch

And how this double standard invalidates you all today....What a bunch of hypocrites! All people and states are accountable and to not do so would involve severe boycotts and withholding of military and financial aid. Dutch

Spoken like a true defender of the police state that generally accompanies racist nationalism - or more simply called "fascism". Control the media, censure information for the benefit of the state, propagandize, and above all - Silent all dissent. Oh, and I almost forgot, deligitimitize all opposition - all for the purpose of national interest, mind you, and because it is absolutely imperative for the survival of a state that is threatened both from within and from the outside! Oh yes indeed, Israel seems to be well on its way - and it's good for the Fatherland!

Very revealing article and comments in feedback. Notice how people confuse the inculcating of "Jewish values" with "democratic values." This is a literal misreading of the article, which used the term "democratic values." Democratic values are universalist; they are about natural rights, not ethnicity or religion. The trends in Israeli society are toward fascism. This is why Palestinian citizens of Israel are under attack. The delusional nature of Israeli society at this moment in time lies in the unspoken wish to "cleanse" or to use an old Zionist canard, "transfer," the Palestinian citizens. Why? Because they exist and remind Israeli Jews that the birth of Israel came in and through the negation of the Palestinians as a people. Until Israelis can admit what occurred to plant a Jewish state in the middle of the Arab world and to admit the other that Israel expelled, Palestinians will always be a "threat," and Israeli Jews will always live in fear.

in UK or USA in 1941-1945 and correctly so.

no better source than the spokesman for the Most Moral Army in the World! LOL

The most rabid elements in Israel have taken total control of the society. A nation, where it was once said that if you had two citizens, you had three opinions; has become a nation where if you have three citizens there is only one opinion allowed. That nation's leaders keep it in a continual fear of the world, and conflates all possible enemies, foreign or local, into a single conception of evil which is only exceeded by the evil of those who rule Israel. How is that what was once a vibrant democracy has become a quasi-theocracy headed by a totalitarian regime?

Democracy and orthodox religion are incompatible.

"They found that 57.6 percent of the respondents agreed that human rights organizations that expose immoral conduct by Israel should not be allowed to operate freely." "Slightly more than half agreed that "there is too much freedom of expression" in Israel." UNBELIEVABLE! On second thoughts, not really.

You miss the point. But I will ask you this: do you think organizations should be restricted or possibly banned for exposing human rights abuses by the IDF or any other Israeli institution?

"More than half of Jewish Israelis think human rights organizations that expose immoral behavior by Israel should not be allowed to operate freely, and think there is too much freedom of expression here, a recent survey found." Truth hurts them doesn't it....Why do I now think of the German society in the 1930s and 1940s?

In a country where the majority has facist tendencies what could be more natural?

Since 75.5 percent of the population of Israel are Jewish and 57.6 percent think human rights organizations that expose immoral behavior by Israel should not be allowed to operate freely, and we can assume the the rest of the 24.5 percent of the Israeli population (who are largely Arab) would think human rights organiz...ations that expose immoral behavior by Israel SHOULD be allowed to operate freely, that means that of the total Israeli population, around only 43.2 percent back "gag on rights groups."

Israelis shouldn't fear human rights groups, I wish Arab countries had the same groups and freedoms.

...but at first blush, it seems that over half of Israel is ready and willing to tear up the constitution (they don't have), and then plunge themselves (via the toilet) into some sort of fear-driven paranoia where the favorite pastime is burning folks at the stake who have the unmitigated (and treasonous) gall to point out those occasions when the Emperor has No Clothes. Other countries have done this, and--on the whole--it did not work out well. Other countries are doing it now--and Israel excoriates those who do. (But, "what the hey," right?")

Israelis themselves need to know if their military is engaging in human rights violations or their government is being deceptive. Look at what happened to the U.S. in Vietnam and Iraq because of government lies that were not reported timely enough to prevent ill-advised military action. Israelis should not gag their critics, nor wear earplugs or blinders. Love of country does not mean ignorance of its leaders' mistakes or misdeeds.

Lots of luck in this most ridiculous desire for denial of zionist criminality. Jews in Israel are fortunately not capable, for all their frenzied efforts, of shutting down the ever-growing world-wide knowledge of their crimes. Israel now ranks in the top five of most despised countries.

Founded on this sort of paradox (Jewish democracy) and uninterested in peace, I very much doubt Israel will last another 60 years.

...and the professor's "Israelis have a distorted perception of democracy," is pure ivory tower thinking, not our present reality at all...

Groups like Peace Now, Btselem, ISM are not actual rights groups. They are Pro-Arab, anti-Israel organizations that are foreign funded and exist to attack Israel. Israeli have no problem with legitimate rights organizations just hate groups disguising as ones.

The very fact that I'm reading such an article on Haaretz, an Israeli newspaper and reporting back shows how good freedom of speech is valued.

Israelis are very quick to emit critics and justification like: -we are the only democracy in the Middle East -we have the most moral army in the world -we have the most incredible brains.... -we have the best doctors in the world -we have a total free press. On which facts are those believes actually based? Every Israeli will tell you, we have the most moral army, but compared to what? Free press?When you are in Israel and seeing the news on TV, you have actually the impression that palestinians live thousands kilometers away and almost nothing is reported about abuses of Israeli in the terroritories. Strange,self censured?

... how the wholesale theft of Top Secret documents by an on-duty traitorous soldier is smoothed over with so much putty that it is almost indecipherable on first glance. Almost, but not quite. Everyone, even the most liberal, understands that this conduct if not handled correctly, will lead to the destruction of a country.

where I*ve ever lived in. I like it though, but it is taken advantage of by those, who scan to harm Israel. Therefore a bit tougher laws to protect Israel from abusive behavior are needed. Since there are people, who do not understand or know what abusive, harmful behavior is, such behaviors must be defined for everybody to become aware of and then prohibit such behaviors. For ex. the Arab MKs disrespectful behavior toward the State of Israel as her representatives abroad and at home fulfills the characteristics of abusive behavior. In any other modern democracy such poorly behaving MKs *d be sacked without mercy simply bc they*ve crossed the line of proper ETHICAL behavior. Nor would the "human rightists", who focus on slandering Israel rather than on those they are supposed to stand up for, tolerated anywhere in any Western democracy. That they are simply OFF-FOCUS is enough reason to stop them elsewhere. Pull yourself together Israel, become a serious state!

"Look we`re on an Israeli newspaper website and most of the articles deal with issues relating to Israel. And so the responses to the articles will naturally be in line with what the article talked about and what the responders are saying." Negative, negative, negative, negative, negative, negative.... every single day? "Why would someone start talking about Russia and China if they are completely unrelated to the topic?" Do you know how many people who have NOTHING to do with Israel come here to vent their spleens? "Moreover, about `attractive qualities`. The way I see it if you care about your friends and family then you will still tell them how you feel about something that concerns them even if they wont like hearing" My point -- that's the PREPONDERANCE of what you hear from these people. You wouldn't get sick of it? Would you have someone around who complains about you all the time? Would you still think they're doing you a favor, or would you get rid of them after awhile?

Why do they never publish results of surveys in the Arab sector? Or are there non performed there with critical questions like should homosexuals be executed or can Muslims become Jews to marry Jews or should restaurants be open during the day in Muslim vilages during the ramadan, or could pork be sold opposite the mosque if christian arabs wanted that? Or is it good to support Hamas when killing Jews or should one help Hezbollah hit civilian centres with Scud rockets? None of these essential questions are never asked. Funny or not? Or is it selfcensorship of the lefties and Arabs? The same that we are accused off by the same groups talking about double standards or not?

Look we're on an Israeli newspaper website and most of the articles deal with issues relating to Israel. And so the responses to the articles will naturally be in line with what the article talked about and what the responders are saying. Why would someone start talking about Russia and China if they are completely unrelated to the topic? Moreover, about 'attractive qualities'. The way I see it if you care about your friends and family then you will still tell them how you feel about something that concerns them even if they wont like hearing it. Thats what friends do and it can be done in a respectful and constructive manner or in an inflamatory and blind rhetoric manner. I'm sure the Iranians are sick of being told what they can and cant do especially when there are double-standards. Ofcourse there are flaws in other countries but what are you expecting on Haaretz that people will make a case on whats wrong with every other country AND THEN turn to Israel?

Either you have a democracy with freedom of expression or not so "human rights groups" must be allowed to express opinion. However, human rights groups have been around forever and the problem is that nowadays whatever they say is taken far too literally and they are given far too much influence in policy making . Hence the overly political correct policies we have. If you apply a rule of thumb that a "Human Right" is something that should be earnt rather than given it would improve matters. For example if Israels Arabs behave a a non- detrimental way to the state then they should enjoy the full rights of all citizens. If they act in a damaging and treachorous way which will harm the majority population then their "human rights" must be reviewed.

this is really scary

The anti-Israelis (including the overly self-critical Israelis) seem to be intolerant about the majority opinion of Israelis who claim they are sick of all the whiners. How many of you halfwits stay friends with someone who focuses primarily upon your flaws and rubs them in your face every single day? Do you inbreds actually find this to be an attractive quality -- flaunted in your face day after day? How many of you finally say, "Look, can you focus on something or someone else for a change?" No! You anti-Israeli shitwits are too myopically obsessed with Israel to demonstrate any common sense. How about China? "No" you anti-Israeli cretins shout. "The focus must remain upon Israel!" Russia? "No!" Israel is where we must obsess. The huge prison population and murder rate in the U.S.? "NO!" It's all about Israel! "Israel is the crappy place which needs the most change!!!!!" Maybe Israelis are sick of being criticized so much (including from within), you sniveling morons.

Which European democracy can look down on us? I think people are not afraid of free expression, but are fed up with irresponsible journalism. The constant battle for ratings and newspaper sales has resulted in the sensationalism of even the smallist issues (as long as they are sales worthy). The is a hell of alot of Israel bashing in our media, which gives our journalists legitamacy and prestige with our critics abroad, but is not always justified. And often appears as if they are just looking for a pat on the back from their foreign associates. What European citizens would put up with having their country constantly "slagged off" by their own press all the time? Especially in time of war. What European nation would live up to our standards in time of war and conflict. Not many I venture.

Doesn't "human rights groups" imply that they view people as equal, as having the same human rights, regardless of nationality, religion or ethnicity or any other identity you want to use to label people. At least some people here believe that also other people should enjoy the same rights as we claim ourselves.

...than most Western countries? I mean, I don't know of many other western countries where articles first have to be approved by a censor. And to be honest I can't really think of many other restrictions on press freedom in Europe or even in the US. Care to name one or two that do not apply in Israel?

This is a wonderful observation on having free speech and maybe "too much of it". I have no clue what "too much free speech" is. But one way to think of it is to look even at people right here. The IDF censors and hides secrets like what happens to Palestinians in prisons and under arrest, yet there is so much information on Israeli drones (pilot-less planes) rockets and RADARS, these are no longer "state secrets". Israel has a different problem, Israelis do not know how to shape their image and talk about drip irrigation, environmental technology and communication systems. They "let" foreign journalists dominate the discussions on mainstream media outlets. But this is changing quickly, blogging and all kind of Internet content, like YouTube is changing how people see Israelis and Israel. Just a small blog: http://bit.ly/h0X7w

...it's the left-wing extremists they're fed up with. The left-wingers have proven to be a threat to national security. Israel is only acting in the interest of national security to gag those punks. This is what the situation has come down to.

When it's about criticizing countries that don't apply Human Rights at all, they all shut up (thanks Amnesty for hiding the 13-year old girl that died by its 38 years husband raping her, while he received nothing). ALL of them! But when it's about a small country in threat of total annihilation by all of the world's dictatorships, that's another thing. In Somalia, in Darfur, nothing happened. But in Israel, it's an utter genocide! Anyone still wonder why Cuba, Libya, Iran, Vietnam and Lebanon were the 5 presidents of Durban II? Because they slaughter humans but support "Human Rights [against Israel]".

No doubt that more needs to be done to educate the youth in Jewish values. However there seems to be more emphasis on highlighting what is wrong with Israeli society than there is to fix or to shore things up. When Israel is facing enemies on all fronts, the human rights groups are often going too far. By too far I mean that the net result of their action is to invite more pressure on Israel instead of fixing the problem. One should not forget that out of control free press has never been the savior of any nation, democratic or other. At this time in Israel's history, what does seem to be happening is that some actions by some human rights groups are helping to bring the enterprise down. Saying "Oops" after it is gone is not going to help bringing it back.

This disturbing trend of Israelis not wanting to know what immoral/illegal/unethical behaviour that its government or its agents is up to can only end extremely badly and will ultimately threaten the very existence of the state.

A story that would have been censored had the Israeli public had its way, has made it through uncensored. (Pssst. Print the other REALLY important one.)

There is not such a thing as too much freedom.Howewer,there must be a balance between freedom of speech and confort and help of the enemies of Israel.The "human rights groups" should worry first about the RIGHTS OF THE ISRAELIS,TO LIVE IN PEACE AND SECURITY...

Your own diminishing freedoms are at risk. Not just the second class status of the Arab public at large.

Tsk, tsk...Israel has more press freedoms than most Western countries. A vibrant press guarantees a vibrant democracy. The Israeli press and freedom of information are only a couple of the hight points of Israeli society. I have my disagreements with the Israeli government, but the Israeli press is spot on!