Netanyahu wants loyalty oath bill to include Jews as well

to include all of Israel's current citizens, Jew and otherwise, and not just immigrants and non-Jews? If the oath is to be administered, it must be administered equally to ALL citizens current and future. Somehow, though, I don't see "equal" anywhere in Israel. Some, it seems, are more equal than others.

What does "Jewish" mean in this context likewise a "Jewish State" in this context? What willthis mean for potential immigrants who might not then be able to retain dual citizenship? _______________________________________ Oh Stanley Boy, here is your chance to demonstrate your loyalty. Will you, Mr. Fisher, yield your U.S. citizenship; become a "Foreign Worker in Israel; opt to work out of your home in the U.S., or; you could even consider becomming a (very-)long distance commuter. If you choose the first option, you have two models. There is a well known cabinet member who speaks USA English quite well. The other example is of a Rabbi(A-Shaloam) who yielded his passport in order to seek a Knesset Seat. After he lost, he begged to get it back. Now that I have had my say; I will yield the floor to you, sir.

The proposed amendment is pretty looking patch on a bad sore that belies the underlying problem. It reminds me of the question: "Are you now or have you ever been a member of the Communist Party or have you ever assocciated with anyone who is or was .......?"

Good. All Israeli citizens should pledge allegiance to the Jewish and democratic State of Israel. 'Netanyahu instructed a bill extending the loyalty oath, which is currently aimed at non-Jews, to include Jewish immigrants as well.' Excellent. Israel is a Jewish nation, with a Jewish language and Jewish legal system. Both Jews and Nonjews ('Gerim') are full members of this Jewish nation ('Am Yisrael').

There is no artificial "oath" which can make each and every citizen behave the same, nor should there be. The reality is that a substantial "right of return" will destroy Israel as a home for the Jewish People in one or two generations. A "realistic" number of Arabs who can justify their connections to and belief in Israel as their home should be allowed to be Israeli. This type of policy is generally accepted by most Western Democracies. In a democracy, good governments generally continue in power for a reasonable time. When times change and governments can not or do not adjust to the circumstances which challenge them, they should leave.Whatever government and its policies lead Israel into it next stage of development and growth, it must be fair to both the idea of Israel and the reality of Arab Israelis. Nothing else is survivable.

Frankly, Israel should scap the 'loyalty' oath. But if they choose to keep it, I think they should end the idea of 'dual citizenship'. Make all potential Israelis give up their old passports and citizenship in all other countries. If they want to become Israeli citizens then there is no 'lifeline' by which Israelis can decide that if things don't work out, they can always go to Europe or the US or wherevever. Such a requirement would probably 'sharpen' the debate. If you have to renounce your 'Get out of jail free' card, then Israelis would probably focus more on the future and how to make their 'state' work, rather than feeling that if things don't go their way they can always 'escape' to a more civilized society.

I wonder if Bibi will make J. Pollard take a loyalty oath if gets the traitor released from the USA Jail? J. Pollard would be a good face to put on the loyalty oath. Every zionist who arrived in their new home prior to WWI took a loyalty oath to the ottoman empire but they arrived to destroy the nation which granted them a new homeland away from the problems in europe.

There is no artificial "oath" which can make each and every citizen behave the same, nor should there be. The reality is that a substantial "right of return" will destroy Israel as a home for the Jewish People in one or two generations. A "realistic" number of Arabs who can justify their connections to and belief in Israel as their home should be allowed to be Israeli. This type of policy is generally accepted by most Western Democracies. In a democracy, good governments generally continue in power for a reasonable time. When times change and governments can not or do not adjust to the circumstances which challenge them, they should leave.Whatever government and its policies lead Israel into it next stage of development and growth, it must be fair to both the idea of Israel and the reality of Arab Israelis. Nothing else is survivable.

This oath should have always applied to jews as well although legally jews have an automatic RIGHT to move to Israel and take out citizenship on the grounds they are jewish. Non jews do not have that right so for them if they are given citizenship its a GIFT which we are allowed to refuse to give but we have no right to stop a jew becoming an Israeli citizenship except in unusual circumstances.

The oath could read: "I pledge allegiance to the Flag of Israel and to the democratic Jewish State for which it stands..." Who could object to that?

And will no longer be forced to be cannon fodder for the Leftist IDF

That is fair. I don't want to live anywhere else and certainly not under Moslem law like Gaza.

Why stop with just new immigrants? Require all Israelis to take the oath. Anyone who doesn't should be arrested and jailed. If any immigrated to Israel then they should be deported back to where they came from.

You can backtrack on this bill all you want - but the motives behind it have already been revealed.

A Jewish state - but who actually defines a Jew and what happens to those who aren't quite Jewish enough? We know what happens to non-Jews.

the oath is ridiculous (Israel is already defined as Jewish state (whatever that means) and how many non-Jewish immigrants do we have each year?) the Arab response is emotive exaggeration (apartheid racist state) which does nothing. Amazing how such a silly needless law blows up into the end of the world.

All emigres should have to swear or affirm an oath of loyalty to Israel before their citizenship is finalized. Those who won't should be given a green card that will allow them to stay for 7 years and work and drive and hold jobs and be taxed to help defray the costs of their health benefits. At the end of the seven year tenure they should be asked to make the oath of loyalty; if they refuse, then they should be deported. That goes for Jews, arabs, muslims, Christians, druze, whoever. Treat them all exactly the same. Only children born to natural Israeli citizens or to naturalized Israeli citizens should automatically receive Israeli citizenship.

Oh lol! Equal!

Big bruhaha for an oath that will be equal to all citizens, whether Jew, Arab, Christian, Muslim, Druze, Bahai, Bedouin, Philipino, etc. Israel is the homeland of the Jewish people, and an oath of loyalty to Israel as the democratic homeland of the Jewish people with equal rights for minorities is fine. Scream, yell and kick, but it is totally fair and fine. Unfortunately, Haaretz doesn't quote MK's from Labor, Meretz, Likud, and Kadima, but only extreme, fringe parties, like Hadash and Ra'am Talal, besides Netanyahu himself. It would ahev been fair to cover a more ample array of opinions.

Of that there may be little doubt. So put it to the entire Israeli public to see if an oath is required and if so the form it should take. Surely on an issue of this nature the principles governing any democracy demand such action be taken.

Of that there may be little doubt. So put it to the entire Israeli public to see if an oath is required and if so the form it should take. Surely on an issue of this nature the principles governing any democracy demand such an action be taken.

Look, if the Almighty intended for the Jewish people to have a nation WITHOUT THE PROMISED MESSIAH, He would have left them to their own devises for that self determination the first time around after 40 years under Moses which led to regency under the kings, but He did not and for good reason. The right of self determination is reflected in its caricature of "I'll take it because it's mine". but an heir to an estate is considered no more than a thief in his attempts to seize his inheritance out of time and not in accordance to its governing laws.

Israel was founded as a Jewish state and the Jewish right to statehood is a tenet of international law. Here it is: The Balfour Declaration of 1917 called for the creation of “a national home" for the Jewish people”. In 1922, the League of Nations cited the “historical connection of the Jewish people” to the country as “the grounds for reconstituting their national home.” In 1947, the United Nations authorized the establishment of “an independent Jewish state”. Any inconvenience with International Law now that the Jewish people have rights under the law? OFF COURSE YOU DO! The question was rhetorical. Ta ta for now.

What does Jewish AND democratic mean, exactly? Is that anything like whites-only and NOT apartheid?

By adding that Jews too have to take the pledge you proved how ridiculous it is to add anything one has to pledge to and this 62 years after the creation of the State of Israel.What about the loyalty of both Nethanyahu and Lieberman? Both of them have not only harmed the State by their incompetence but have insulted the intellect of the Jewish people as well.Draw a map of the future borders of Israel,inform the world of what land swap you want to trade with the Palestinians.Let Israelis who wish to live in Palestine keep their Israeli nationality without voting rights(except municipal)in Palestine.Allow the Palestinian State to offer citizenship to Arabs who currently live in Israel and wish to remain there but with an Palestinian passport instead of an Israeli one.Allow Palestinians, holding a Palestinian passport, born before May 15th 1948 in Palestine to have(own,rent a second residence in Israel.Declare the Golan Heights Syrian territory and lease it from the Syrians for the next 99 years for a given fee and develop it into a joint free trade Israeli-Arab zone.Form an industrial/agricultural partnership with Cyprus(both sides) and Lebanon.(Turkish water for all).Create tourist joint ventures with Jordan and Saudi Arabia for the 1.4 billion Moslims who want to to visit the Mosques in Jerusalem,before or after returning from the Hadj.Do the same with Egypt(pyramids),Palestine (Betlehem) for tourists and Christian pelgrims.Lease a corridor (trains only)to connect Gaza to the West Bank to the Palestinians. Form a new Dubai playground in TAELBA(Taba,Eilath,Akaba).Have a yearly contest for who can eat the most falafels in 15 minutes (hotdogs in Coney Island)on the beaches of TAELBA.Smell the coffee and care for all the children of the middle-east as if they were your own!!! LIVE IN PEACE.Shalom.

With this logic, US Jews should be required to submit to a loyalty oath.

mr PM i hear every a new GRAZY idea .sorry but i have to say thats is geting very stupid at this level of our GOV .P>S are you brain washed by your coalition? or scare to avoid political full out ?? i wonder what next?? bomb shell every day ? this is realy outragoues.non sense.you can not run a GOV when you are under siege by your coalition .or the religious ? we are becoming a RACIST israel country .under you nose .

Forgive me if I have problems understanding all this but why a loyalty oath sixty years after the establishment of the State of Israel? Why now? Is there some reason the right wing has to insist that citizens pledge their loyalty to Israel as a Jewish State now when they had not been asked to do this by law for the past six+ decades? The right wing in Israel is edging closer and closer to facism and Israel's supporters in the Diaspora are becoming both alienated as well as angry. First, Israel wants to change the bill for conversion and now the loyalty oath. It seems that the Jewish purity police are now in control and that does not bode well for the future of a democratic Israel.

the main problem is that Israel is not caring about the international opinion, Israel right now has to focus on the peace process and do whatever is needed for that. there´s no place for people like Lieberman, always saying what he wants, even when a lot of people can think the way he does (sometimes I do), but the point is he has to act in a way that might be good for Israel considering the whole cirunstances

Great way to kill US aliyah. And solve the problem of those pesky non-Orthodox converts at the same time. Another brilliant move! Another way might be to have circumcision checkers. Which might also help solve Haredi underemployment. Food for thought.

to turn a country that once was the symbol of modernity into a theocracy bit by bit.

There is no artificial "oath" which can make each and every citizen behave the same, nor should there be. The reality is that a substantial "right of return" will destroy Israel as a home for the Jewish People in one or two generations. A "realistic" number of Arabs who can justify their connections to and belief in Israel as their home should be allowed to be Israeli. This type of policy is generally accepted by most Western Democracies. In a democracy, good governments generally continue in power for a reasonable time. When times change and governments can not or do not adjust to the circumstances which challenge them, they should leave. Whatever government and its policies will lead Israel into it next stage of development and growth, it must be fair to both the idea of Israel and the reality of Arab Israelis. Nothing else is survivable.

Scary weird. Once the oath is in place there will have to be laws made to punish those who violate the oath, those who are "disloyal" or "unpatriotic". It is shocking that something like this could be supported while holocaust survivors are yet alive.

After all, someone will be quick to point out to Bibi that an ultra-orthodox Jew may refuse to swear allegiance to a Jewish and DEMOCRATIC state, since they want a halachic state. And if your proposed bill has the effect of excluding some Jews from becoming Israeli citizens, well, wither the Law of Return??????/

Gee, I thought Israel was being racist by picking on one group with a stupid law. But Netanyahu is trying to expand a stupid law to everyone, even those rightists who clearly support this nonsense. Does he really think this helps him? I think it exposes his lack of intellect.

'The state of Israel was founded as the sovereign state of the Jewish people and as a democratic state in which all its citizens – Jews and non-Jews alike – enjoy equal rights." Not true.

Has it been defined what's a Jew in this bill? What if I don't fit in? Shall I be forced to leave after ten years of my Aliah? Shall my son, preparing now his Aliah not to be accepted? If according to the new definition of acceptability the new society will be stringent, rigid, taliban-like, shall I not feel at home in my own home and be forced to come back to the golah?

The law now will be universal. That means that a Jewish Kahanist from Brookling will have to pledge loyalty to Israel democracy that also includes arabs. If he does not like it he can stay in Brookling. All other non jewish who want to become citizern will have to pledge alliegiance to the Jewish democratic state. No problem with this. The law is not especially a liberal one, but it is in tune with Europe's civic integration laws.

As a Jew & an American, I have a strong distatse for Loyalty Oaths. If I am forced to take one to attain my rightful Israeli Citizenship under the Law of Return, I shall niether be an Israeli Citizen nor a Zionist any further. How dare anyone demand this of any Jew? It is in insult which will force me to find a way to forever seperate Judaism from Zionism. If this is what Zionism has become, I shall not be a Zionist. Really a terrible state of affairs.

Whether Jews, non-Jews, or both have to swear this oath- the problem is with the wording. It discriminates against non-ethnic Jews, secular ethnic Jews, and even religious Jews who don't want a democratic state. The only winner from this entire saga is Moldova's Avigdor Lieberman, and how ironic is it that he gets to decide who's Israeli or not: I'm sure every Jew born in the Holy Land, every Israeli Arab born within the Green Line, and every sane person would find this outrageous. Of course, no condemnation from President Odumbass; now imagine if Iran decided to introduce such an oath targetting non-ethnic Persians, or any Western country deciding to define itself as a White Christian state. The hypocrisy is so conspicuous.

There's a world of difference between a liberal democratic state and a Jewish democratic state. It's not an exaggeration to say throughout its history Israel has presented itself to be both. That ends with the loyalty oath. It would appear to be a fundamental change in the state's character, and likely to have broad repercussions.

What if Germany had an Oath Of Allegiance that all non-Germanic people had to take recognizing Germany as a Germanic, Christian, Democratic state. How would the world accept that?

If a person refuses this oath the Nation of Israel has the right to refuse them citizenship.

Critics of the bill fear it embodies ulterior motives destined to be aimed against new citizens who are not Jewish, like Arabs, and that it will be used as a tool for the promotion of racism but until the exact wording is not known, the oath seems perfectly fine as "A Jewish and Democratic State" Is the definition of the nature and character of the State of Israel, as the Jewish nature was first defined within the Declaration of Independence of 1948, and the "Democratic" character, was first officially added to the "Jewish" nature, in the amendment to the Basic Law: the Knesset that was passed in 1985 (amendment 9, clause 7A).

It was in our rights to keep SInai, yet we gave it back. This is a compromise. We got out of Gaza. This is a compromise. Now we change the oath... another compromise. And it won't be enough. To the Arabs, it will be enough when we will agree to go back to Europe or to jump in the sea. The whole world is antisemite and nobody cares! Can't all of you accept this is the land of the Jews?

there are jews who make aliya without ever recognising medinat israel.

It's pretty pathetic that some people are trying to call this 'new' spin on the loyalty oath 'even-handed', though I suppose there's no reason to expect the Israeli right to suddenly develop an appreciation for honesty or intellectual integrity. Here's an idea: let's have all Israelis swear an oath to obey me, Aaron Levitt, and I'll swear an oath to obey myself, too! It's just as even-handed, and much more personally gratifying.

No, but at least it shows that Mr. Netanyhao, foor every good reasons, felt or feels ashamed.

Good work, glad logic prevails.

what bib and libi plan to do with them where they gonna deport them

nuff said

I totally agree! Both Jews as well as non-Jews need to swear allegiance to the state of Israel. This will enable Israel to defend itself against the ultra-Orthodox and the hyper-Liberals!

It's like you pull every trick out of the hat to delay the peace talk process for as long as possible. You're going to have to give it up.

In this case nobody has to make any oath. Israel today is all but democratic, with so much dictate by the Haredi and in a fully undemocratic way. Therefore now Israel has to produce a fully democratic and freedom loving constitution and live it every day. Freedom and democracy must be conquered every day. Wait to see this happening before the Messiah will come!

I would rather live in a State for the Jews than a Jewish State. Could you imagine if the Hassids ran the show???

this loyalty bill is not only adding more unnecessary tension at what could be a pivotal time in the nation's history, but it furthermore detracts from valuable political resources that could be better spent on things like the talks with the PA.

What does "Jewish" mean in the context of this oath? The proposed law does not define it, but there are a few possibilities: 1. 'Israel is the homeland of the Jews, and only the Jews'. This is historically incorrect because the expected "Palestine" is also part of the homeland of the Jews, and Israel and Palestine together (with part of Jordan) are the homeland of Jews and Palestinians together. 2. 'Israel belongs to the Jewish people'. Does this mean that if Arabs become the majority, they will not rule the country? What is "Democratic" then, and how can a non-Jew swear loyalty to this? 3. Being "Jewish" means that some laws prefer the Jewish population. But laws of what type? How can one swear loyalty without knowing which types of laws are preferential to Jews?// Perhaps there are more meanings to the word "Jewish" but they are not explained in the oath. Either replace the word "Jewish" by a phrase that explicates its meaning, or just demand loyalty to the state and its laws, whatever they are. Better not to give such easy ammunition to enemies of the State. I suspect the right-wing wants to use the present undefined phrase in order to deter Arabs from applying for citizenship and/or making it easier later to revoke their citizenship.

An ideology centered on the creation of a state for a specific ethnic group (or groups, in the case of the Jews) has no place in the modern world. A "state for Jews" is no better than a "state for white folks." The result will always be the same.

When will the world understand, that searching for / politicizing / creating biological links, identities, relationships, and therefore hierarchies (yes, Zionism for instance, but also other ideologies in the past), is shameful? Nationalism and its racial/ethnic claims are dangerous and utterly nonsensical. Widen your horizon instead of reproducing malicious patterns of the past!

this is a Classic Bibi concession. The bill was intentionally excluded jews from the oath just so Bibi could be seen as being fair later on and adding it in. This is like having the USA and Canada have non christian migrants swear loyalty to a Christian state and then change the law to make even christian migrants swear loyalty to the christian state as well. The law stinks in either incarnation

Netantahu says "We're not racists, honest!"

Well, looks like any diaspora Jew who might dissent is excluded from this government's concept of K'lal Yisrael.

So now it will be applied to All non-jewish citizens , and all immigrants coming in under the law of return. This applies to all christian, muslim and israelis of other religions, and all immigrant jews. But why are Jewish -israelis to be exempt from the loyalty oath? How are you going to separate loyalty to the government from loyalty to the state? Very slippery slope.

When you can start making laws like this mandatory, it is only a matter of time until someone abuses it.

Can they have a lesbian Reformed Rabbi administer the oath?

In the eyes of some Rabbis many of us are not jews.

I bet it won't be enough and the Palestinians will demand that it be recognize as Arab now. Expect a negative response from the PA which will use this as another reason not to talk.