Netanyahu: Vote on conversion reform won't be brought to Knesset plenum
Knesset panel approves in preliminary reading proposed legislation that would assign authority on matters of conversion in Israel to the Chief Rabbinate; Reform and Conservative Jewish communities protesting the bill.
By Jonathan Lis and The Associated Press Tags: Israel news Knesset Jerusalem LikudPrime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu announced Monday that a controversial conversion bill that was approved in a preliminary reading of the Knesset would not be brought before the plenum for a final vote.
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The Knesset Constitution, Law and Justice Committee on July 12, 2010. |
| Photo by: Tomer Applebaum |
The Knesset Constitution, Law and Justice Committee earlier Monday approved the draft on conversion reform, a bill that has sparked outrage among Reform and Conservative Jewish communities in Israel and abroad.
The draft, which was prepared by committee chairman MK David Rotem (Yisrael Beiteinu), would assign the authority on matters of conversion in Israel to the Chief Rabbinate.
Monday's approval was needed before parliament can vote on the bill. It has to pass three rounds of voting before becoming law, a process that will likely take months.
Likud MK's were absent from the vote. MK's David Rotem (Yisrael Beiteinu ), Avraham Michaeli (Shas), Uri Maklev (United Torah Judaism) and Michael Ben Ari (National Union) voted in favor of the new bill. MK's Shlomo Molla (Kadima), Yohanan Plesner (Kadima) and Dov Khenin (Hadash) voted against the bill.
Members of the Kadima faction attacked their Likud counterparts for skipping the vote. "Netanyahu surrendered to the ultra-Orthodox and the Likud fled," Kadima MKs said. "The purposeful absence of the Likud MKs during the vote led to the victory of the putrid deal that Yisrael Beitenu struck with the Haredi factions, at the expense of Zionism and the Jews of the Diaspora."
"Netanyahu is spitting in the face of the Jews of the Diaspora, seconds after he used them and their influence during his recent visit in the United States," they added
Chairman of the Jewish Agency and former Deputy Prime Minister Natan Sharansky strongly criticized the bill, claiming that it will damage relations with the Jewish Diaspora.
"By recognizing Orthodox conversions, and not the conversions of other streams of Judaism, it causes Diasporic Jews to feel that they are being made 'illegal,'" Sharansky said.
"This is stupidity. The Prime Minister needs to take an uncompromising stand on the issue and make sure that this bill will not pass," he added.
The head of the Reform Movement, Rabbi Gilad Kariv, told Haaretz on Sunday that MK Rotem, who initiated the bill, had "cut a deal with the Haredim according to which the Orthodox establishment Israel will, for the first time, have a monopoly on conversion - in direct contravention of Supreme Court decisions and promises made by political leaders, and contrary to the interests of immigrants."
Rotem rejected the claims against him Sunday, saying, "This is not a change of the status quo on matters of conversion. Through their claims, the Reform and Conservative communities are attempting to make some sort of gain at the expense of 400,000 new immigrants."
Rotem said he intended to put forth a much milder version of the bill following the preliminary reading. He planned to carry out the alteration through a vague formulation of the bill as it currently stands.
"The bill says the Chief Rabbinate will be given responsibility on matters of conversion in Israel, but it does not say it will receive exclusive responsibility to this. Prior to the second and third reading, I intend to sit with both the Reform and Conservative [representatives] in order to incorporate them into the framework of the law," Rotem said.
He said he attempted to prevent Haredim from setting additional conditions for the conversion issue.
"The Haredi demands are constantly increasing. The more the other communities clash with the Haredim, the more opportunities the Haredim are given to react," Rotem said.
Kariv, for his part, said Sunday that "the formula Rotem is using is very vague. He is playing with words. The minute the law says the responsibility is in the hands of the rabbinate, it will become necessary to turn to the rabbinate and consult with them every time there is a case of conversion. And this, after for 20 years our conversions abroad have been recognized in Israel by the Population Registry."
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How outrageous, we in the American Masorati movement are always active in the support of Israel. All that is expected in return is respect for our Judaic practices and conversions. Israel has too many enemies among the goyem. Why offend diaspora Jews as well?
Purpose of the bill is to allow some choice for Russians. Reform and Conservative are angry because lefties promised they would use the opportunity to open flood gates, and could not deliver.
Haredim who have not served in the Israeli army should have no say in anything. Also anyone who has not served in the army or done Sherut Leumi should not be allowed to be in the Knesset either.
Allowing the Rabbinate to rule on matters of conversion would not be problematic if all members of the Rabbinate actually believed in conversion. I have followed this issue and have read quotes of a few orthodox rabbis who have stated that the validity of each conversion should be subject to de novo review at any time. This is another way of suggesting that a horrifying number of the most influential orthodox rabbis in Israel do not believe in conversion. The way I learned it, a true convert who lapses in his/her adherence to a Torah lifestyle is a Jew who has gone off the path. The notion that his/her conversion should be considered revocable or that his/her conversion must not have been sincere is ludicrous. The repurcussions to the community can be catastrophic (unless of course, all converts are turned away) -- which is one solution. This whole business is depressing (being an orthodox convert, in case you had not guessed). The rabbis who know me (mainstream OU synagogue, black-hat wearing (many of them) rabbis) are supportive and tell me that my "off the deep end" hysteria about this issue is "nuts," while giving apologist justifications for the Rabbinate's cruel treatment of converts. In my opinion, a member of the Rabbinate -- who knows nothing about me (for example), but who may some day hear some juicy bit of lashon hara about one or more of the Rabbis involved in my conversion over 15 years ago -- who could potentially wield his political power to retrospectively call into question the validity of my conversion has been given a license to commit an assault no less violent than rape. As a diaspora convert .... I think I will stay put until Moshiach comes and straightens this mess out -- because that is what it will take.
The way I see it Israel has a problem, and that problem is unemployment. It is not that Israel doesn't have enough jobs for all those who seek one. No, the nature of the problem is the fact that there is a certain percent of population which doesn't want a job at all. That community subsists on social welfare, and has too much time on its hands. That community refuses to do its duty and serve in the IDF for a mandatory three years service. Now that community wishes to decide who is Jewish and who is not. That shouldn't be allowed. Wean them of the paychecks earned by hard working secular Jews. There is no such occupation as "Torah study". That should be done in their spare time. If they want a say in society, they must contribute to society. Oblige them to perform their national service at the same time any other Jew performs it. If they can put on hold their higher education for three years, so can the Haredi. All should be equal, all should contribute and all should have the same benefits. Lastly: separate religion from the state. Western world has done that a long time ago. So should Israel. That is if you don't wish to be a theocracy instead of democracy. Final judgement on who is Israeli citizen must rest solely with the State of Israel, and only the State. No religious authority, no matter how great, should have the right to question or overturn the decision of the State on this matter. There are too few Jews in the world, for them to be divided by a group of people who do nothing in life.
Why does anyone listen to these orthodox fanatics? They are a minority and they are unreasonable and they are bossy and they are obnoxious and they love to mix into other peoples' business. So why do you do it? For the money! They shovel copious amounts of cash into Israeli coffers. Israel must wean itself off this money. To you it's like a drug. If they want to give you money great but with no preconditions or conditions. No quid pro quo. You'll need to do what's best for Israel. And if that means recognizing conversions of sincere, righteous people by rabbis other than those affiliated with these orthodox fanatics so be it! When the dust settles on this issue it'll probably turn out to be a net gain because you did the right thing and you will have increased the number of Jews, which I would imagine is something that you would value.
This was always confusing to understand, but now that it is being brought to light, I have more understanding on the issue. I respect Rabbi Gilad Kariv when he says that their conversions have been respected for the past 20 years. It has to do w/the fact that these 400,000 Russian immigrants did for the most part, not arrive to Israel via America, and therefore are not like American Jews who are for the most part, although I do not know for sure, Reform Jews. But since it affects Conversion as a whole, Reformist Rabbis are duly concerned. Why did Likud give a free hand to Yisrael Beitenu? That is indeed cowardly, though the issue does indeed need to be resolved, since Russian immigrants are the largest group to make Aliyah since the early days of the State, apart from the Ethiopians.
World Opinion, Turkey, the US, Iran and now Diaspora Judaism. How many fights can Israel afford at any one time?
The Knesset Constitution and Law Committee seems hell-bent to turn Israel into a 21st century shtetl. Several years ago, under leadership of an orthodox MK, it attempted to put in place a constitution, a *present* to the Jewish state on its 60th birthday, with a dramatically watered-down Law of Return/Grandparent Clause. Two weeks ago a liberal Hebrew University law professor proposed on an on-line Israeli publication that automatic citizenship for Jewish olim be eliminated. Another proposal to eliminate the Law and its Clause. And now the same Constitution and Law Committee, this time under secular party leadership would provide the Chief Rabbinate veto over Who is a Jew. Because this is precisely the issue behind the conversion bill, whether or not all Jews, regardless of denomination or belief, are fit to live in Israel. Israel is at a crossroads: we of the Diaspora created a state for the Jews, all Jews, even Jews who don’t accept all Jews. Even Jews who oppose a state for the Jews. Israel can build on the universal and secular foundation we built into its creation, or can turn her back on the Diaspora. This bill is not just a matter of political expediency, but of national identity.
And rabbi is human not god.
They would also reject those who are not like minded and who live similar lives, and they would do so without many second thoughts.
If that happens, I hope your kids are the first ones sentenced to stoning/flogging.
stoning/flogging for what? Ask any orthodox rabbi and you will find out what you said is a lie. no stoning/flogging is practised in orthodox Judaism.
the Rabbis should be confined to the Synagogue and shold have no say in the running of the nation of Israel. Israel must become a truly secular state.
As long as there are many ways to choose among conversion courts, the number of conversions will increase. This is necessary in today's Israel, where there are many non-Jewish (halkhically) citizens, mostly former Russians, who want to integrate into Israeli Jewish society but prevented from doing so by overzealous rabbis. For example, a family that does not follow orthodox lifestyle is not converted nowadays, even though the majority of Jewish Israelis are like that. Better to rely on more liberal orthodox rabbi who will agree to convert, because the mere living in Israel is an indication of sincere desire to join the Jewish people. I also fail to see the merit in the Conservative and Reform objection. Their situation will not be affected.
The way things are going, Israel is doomed to become the country for medieval, backwards Jews, while all enlightened Jews will take American nationality. And to say that people are surprised the American diaspora does not feel like immigrating to Israel!
We are reform jewish family, and we are living shabbat, kosher and I'm use kippa usually, we will living in Israel, but don't likes this controversy issue, is much better stay here in USA, it has respect to democracy vs Israel, sorry Israel we will Aliya more later , Israel need respect to reform family (including the money). We hope this way change to democracy favor ... Am Israel
The ultra Orthodox are taking over everything. I do wish the secular Jews in this country would realize what is happening. But then, they are Jewish by birth, whether they ever observe any of the mitzvot. They don't have to worry.
What are you all complaining about. You support the Palestinians, send signed letters to Obama that you want us to withdraw to the 67 borders, continue to live in America, and you STILL want to influence how things go over here?
If it's such a problem for you, please stop taking our money! We'll keep it and spend it within America, where at least people are grateful.
So stop giving I say. I for one think that would be an improvement. Self sufficiency.
I'm reform, American, and I do NOT support return to 67 borders and think all so called "palestinians" should be repatriated into one of the 22 arab countries from which they came so don't assume anything about those of us who are more secular. I totally don't support this bill--many people want to convert and don't want to be orthodox...does this mean they should not be Jewish?! This exlusionary nonsense is NOT what Judaism is all about...rabbis need to stick to clergy, not government.
If Jews are, as Herzl postulated, one people, then Diaspora Jews should very much care who the State of Israel is calling a legitimate Jew. If they are not, then of course Israeli Jews should decide anything they want. If the latter, though, should American Jews be any concerned about what happens to Israel? I'm afraid you can't have it both ways.
The Reform movement can make up as many changes as they want. It won't change anything. The Torah is the basis of Judaism, not Rabbi Jaffe or UAHC.
and, similarly, interpretations from the Chief Rabbi to those of "Oh, please!" are not the basis of Judaism and do not change anything. The only difference is some acknowledge that much hinges on interpretation, emphasis and resolution of contradictions and people can come to different conclusions as to what is important, and some are convinced that they hold absolute truth in their hands and require all to conform to their understanding.
I know plenty of good Jewish families where the wife converted in a non-orthodox setting and they have raised children with a Jewish identity in the US. What is going on in Israel is domestic pollitical expediency at the cost of relationship with the rest of the Jewish world. Short sighted as usual.
You can call it whatever you want. If the conversion is not according to halakha, they're not Jewish.
Your indication that a Convservative conversion is "not according to Halakha" is ignorant and demonstrates the Orthodox superiority complex. It smacks of the 'arien race" arguement.
They are as much jewish as all other jews. You gona to say who is jew and who not ? Hardly !
if they don't vote for liberal democrats, they're not Jewish.
...(a) being easier to pass, since legislators can spin them in so many ways, and (b) once passed they provide a wealth of gainful employment for lawyers and judges. (And if you doubt me, ply any of the folks I just mentioned with strong drink--and then ask them.)
Assimilation in the US is about 50%. This indicates to me that the liberalization of Judaism has failed to keeping Jews as Jews. It might work for a specific community here and there but does reach out to others or appeal to the masses. Liberal Jews need to acknowledge this hard fact and start returning to areas of common ground. The more options Judaism offers, the more confusing it is and ultimately, less appealing. The results speak for themselves.
Liberal Jews read about rabbis in Immanuel who want to discriminate against children, yeshivas that train their kids to exact a "Price Tag", rabbis in Tel Aviv who issue fatwas against Sudenese in their neighborhoods, Haradi who reject basic core curriculm in their schools, and religious nationalist settlers who care neither about Palastinains nor a two state solution. Do you think liberal Jews find any of that appealing? Do you think they're going to look to its practitioners as holding the keys to the cosmos or role models to be emulated? Not a chance. If their choice is between that brand of Judaism and no Judaism at all, which do you think they would choose?