Jerusalem light rail may have segregated men-only / women-only cars
CEO of company developing light rail project supports providing 'kosher' cars for city's ultra-Orthodox population.
By Nir Hasson Tags: Jerusalem Nir BarkatCityPass CEO Yair Naveh said Monday that he supports segregated men only and women only cars on the Jerusalem light rail train, which reporters and officials were invited to ride in a celebratory ceremony on Monday.
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Trial run of the Jerusalem light rail train in July, 2010. |
| Photo by: Emil Salman |
The train, being built by CityPass, is not yet operational, and is slated for launch in April 2011.
"The train was built to serve everyone," Naveh said, in response to a question on segregated cars. "I think it is required to create alternatives for everyone, and that option exists because of the train's division into cars. It is not a problem to declare every third or fourth car a mehadrin (kosher) car."
The mehadrin cars would serve Jerusalem's ultra-Orthodox population, who refrain from mixing genders.
Rachel Azariya, a member of the Jerusalem city council and one of the opponents of the existing 'mehadrin' bus lines in Jerusalem (on which men sit in the front of the bus and women sit only in the back), criticized Naveh's declaration, saying that "Naveh is apparently unaware of the high court ruling forbidding further segregation."
"Naveh was appointed to run a project – that doesn’t mean that he can tell people where to sit and where not to sit, nor does it mean that he knows anything about values and democracy," Azariya said.
The ceremonial ride was attended by Jerusalem Mayor Nir Barkat and Transportation Minister Yisrael Katz. Work on the light rail began eight years ago, and has since suffered endless delays and caused countless inconveniences to the residents of Jerusalem, and has become almost synonymous with management failure. The officials at the helm of the project now wish to display a positive facade to the residents of the city.
"Fortunately, we can confidently say today that things are under control, there is a positive atmosphere and positive momentum," Barkat said during the ceremony. "There are still hurdles, but we're on the right path."
Katz added that "I have been called to calm down MKs, ministers and even prime ministers who live in Jerusalem more than once, and I have been asked about the project endlessly. We can now see the beginning of the end, or at least the end of the beginning."
Naveh said that "the train will promote growth in Jerusalem. We're moving ahead with trials on the tracks… Residents of the city will be able to enjoy the train by next spring."
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If this absurdity is enacted, I will have to make two decisions -- either to ride in "male only" cars [I'm female] or simply not use the light rail at all. Hopefully all non-haredim and intelligent dati'im will boycott the trains along with me. I cannot believe that this article is anything but a joke, and a joke in bad taste at that.
INCREDIBLE YET ABSURD! ARE THEY GOING TO HAVE SEPARATE MALE/ FEMALE/JEWISH/GOYIM/ATHEIST/AGNOSTIC/CHRISTIAN/ARAB/BLACK/HITE AND BROWN PEOPLE CARS TOO?????? WHAT A LOAD! AND WHAT ABOUT TOURISTS? BY AGE? STUPIDITY? I.Q?
If they don't like it LET THEM WALK
It solves alot of problems. Right now you have some haredi who want special segregated busses operating just for them so the men don't have to sit next to women they are not married to. As the train can carry alot of cars its easy enough to have 2 segregated cars. It will probably go down quite well with a number of secular women who don't feel comfortable in mixed busses. This is a logical and cheap way of keeping bot secular and orthodox jews happy so go for it. You might not like the haredi but they do make up a significant part of Jerusalems population so their feelings must be considered.
not a good idea, next thing you know drag queens will need to have their own car too.
What does Cosher have to do with human beings on a train?
This proves once and for all that Jews are like everyone else--at times stupid and prone to reactionary thinking.
How about train cars for nudists, clowns and astronauts only!
The division of genders in halacha is designed to eliminate (as much as possible) distractions during prayer. Some groups extend this to other mixed gender settings to avoid unwanted or unacceptable physical contact between unmarried people. That being the case there are many easy ways to handle these restrictions without these kinds of draconian measures! I am Orthodox (with 6 kids, have lived in Israel, Canada, the USA, England and Switzerland. Riding in mixed buses, planes, shuttle vans etc. has never been an issue for me or my family. When we have to attend weddings or other community functions there are always mixed and/or separate tables to accommodate different peoples preferences and its not a big deal. Israel is always just more extreme and people need to guard against letting that tendency take over things like public transportation where its not required even if some people just prefer to sit with the same gender. Polite people who know how to speak with derech eretz can almost always get the right results by saying " excuse me would it be possible to.... " and "I'd be very grateful if I could switch spots/seats etc....". To quote one of my husband's former students from the southern USA "Manners are the backbone of society!" Perhaps more Israelis (and people that comment on the internet) should take improved manners to heart!
If you want any proof of how good Ultra Orthodox Jews' customs of modesty are, just look at the big test case. Your own secular lives are the best test of 'freedom' you could ask for. You allow moral freedom. And what? Your lives are full of divorce, lack of faith, all kinds of moral transgressions...your own lives prove that these excessive 'freedoms' just lead to misbehavior. If we stay more clean, don't blame us for it...
No the orthodox are no better or no worse than the secular, simply within the orthodox community violence towards women, and abuse towards children is hidden from the public. There is good and bad in all, live and let live, just dont push your religious life on those who are not interested in them.
30% more spousal battery, lowest standard of living, higher unemployment, leeching off good israeli's, expecting others to do army service while they don't work........ most orthodox Jews should be embarrassed of themselves - that is certainly not what my G-d wanted from them.
I think many women would appreciate having women-only cars. Even if they're not religious. It isn't uncommon for women, especially attractive ones, to be harassed by men when using public transport. I think many would feel more comfortable and safer in a women-only car. But having one for men only is really stupid. If you don't want to look at women, then don't look. Read a book or lower your hat over your eyes or something. But you can't ask for a men only car.
For information: For others reasons (of course) in the Mexico City subway, every week days from 17:00 to 20.00, on several trains, the first 3 cars are reserved for women and little children only.
The CEO probably thinks he is being clever by pushing the issue to the courts, but he has forgotten the commercial angle. The haredim won’t pay for the rides and any enforcement will lead to riots in which they try to vandalize the trains. Magiya Li.
I want a tourist car so that I don't have to ride with a bunch of backwards thinking people. Othewise I will not travel there.
If the orthos don't like riding with fellow human beings regardless of gender then they can use some alternative form of transportation.
In what age are we living!Progress made by our people on so many divers fields.And with such a decision we wipe that off,going back to the Stone Age.Mr. Naveh should have his head examined to see if he is fit to serve in his capacity!Shame on him
Since Arabs are about a third of the Jerusalem population, and many of them are conservative and don't like mixed seating, my suggestion that a train, say of 7 cars as befits Jerusalem, will have 3 cars for general mixed seating, a Mehadrin car for men, a Mehadrin for women, and two more segregated cars for Arab men and women. I would put a mixed car at the front, then another in the middle after the two Mehadrin cars, and another at the end of the train. This will provide an even better separation between the Haredis and Arabs. If you wonder why Haredi cars should be towards the front and the Arab cars towards the back, well, Jews are in the majority. But I wouldn't insist on the privilege. Let the train go back and forth on the trucks (and not in a circular trajectory) so that the Arabs and Jews switch their relative positions.
Make all gender segregationists ride together on the "bigots only" car.
is that the arab and jewish groups that want gender segregation have more in common with each other than the rest of the world, so it would make sense for them to share the same segregated train cars.... Or the orthodox could simple move to Tehran, where they would blend right in with the locals.
need i add to this
Men in the front...women in the back of buses.....where are we????? Slavery was abolished....or so we thought!
another spike driven into the rail line to 3rd world status
If the train was built to serve everyone, I demand cars for secular people. If it is not a problem to declare every third or fourth car a mehadrin (kosher) car, it should be not a problem to declare every second or so car a secular car. Certainly there will be cars for Christians, for Muslems, for Hindus! For whites and for coloured, for ashkenazim and sefards. Yair Naveh - when you look in a mirror, what do you see?
and this is yet another proof. If they don't want to mix gender, they can walk... it´s not like they have jobs to get to, right?
This project is funded by public monies. No one should be prohibited from using any car of the train. If they don't like it then they can walk. It is time for the "ultra" orthodox to enter the 21st century. "ultra" is just another way to spell trula. Simply said, they're nuts. Their version of Judaism is divisive and creates enmity within our people.
I may not be happy with the increasing tendency towards "religious" prohibitions in the public area..but i am not sure it must be fought on all fronts. The train can offer options that make the ride more comfortable for some men and woman without limiting the rest of us. Anyone can sit in the regular cars..no one is being shoved to the back when they alight this train, but people are offered the choice. By the way...How about cars for people unaccompanied by little children??
This will hurt the system. At off peak times, the system will have to add a mens and women's car when both would be mostly empty. The choice will be to operate a lot of empty cars or not to run the line at all, and the decision will undoubtedly be to not run the line. Also running the line on Saturday will be an area of contention. If one could reson with them, one could propose kosher cars in exchange for not objecting to running on Saturday, but they are absolutists and not amenable to compromise, so what is the point.
This is nonsense. In NYC, Ultra Orthodox take our subways everyday in which men and women share the same cars and the world keeps spinning. Somehow this is impossible in Jerusalem? When will the rest of the population stop appeasing this minority?
Totally agree. I guess it will look prity cute with the orhtodox Jewish women and the Orthodox Muslim women riding together in one caravan......Burkas included!
I don't really think that it's something that's neccesary. That being said, in many countries it is not uncommon to have optional segregated seating. Japan has entire women only compartments. I see this as a reasonable accomadation to peoples wants/needs. I have heard though that women can be quite cruel to each other in a homogeneos group.
run away with you
Three cheers for the only democracy in the Middle East!
Actually it's a very benevolent dictatorship which poses as a democracy. Israel USED TO BE a democracy buy not any more. Now it's a lunatic asylum and the inmates are running it.
... once the new borders of Israel and Jerusalem are determined in negotiations with the Palestinians.
Because we all know Bib will never all Palestinians to have a state.